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On May 06 2013 18:28 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 18:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 06 2013 18:11 yamato77 wrote:
Are you scum with Palmar, Artanis? Now I'm going to have to ask you if you're not reading the thread. On May 06 2013 18:21 Bill Murray wrote:On May 06 2013 17:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
With that I meant that I consider you three pretty strongly town, not that I suspect any of you. Geript because of the marvkill, and Yamato because I really don't see how he could've held this kind of activity and care this much as scum with a scumteam including at least 3 inactives.
I don't like lynching GiggleS at the moment, but I'd be happy to pressure Stutters for a bit. With Palmar I want him to check WoS since if he's insane and not paranoid he'll get a green check on him regardless, so we'll be certain of his alignment presuming it's legit. If he gets red we can always off him then. Why do you see me as town? I realized what you meant, but I know you knew you didn't have to explain that to me. We are pretty much on the same page, from what I have read from you... I didn't really think Drazak was scum, even when I made a weak little case on him - I was just wanting to pressure your slot. That's where you replaced into, right? Because you're putting new ideas into the thread. We were stuck on Palmar/BC/Hopeless for a while and you brought in new suspects. If you were scum I'd have expected you to not stick your neck out this much. You are trying to figure out the game. I figured I'd just state that since it seemed like you were giving a read on Yamato and Geript, so I thought you might've misunderstood me. I replaced into Drazak, yes. What do you think about Palmar checking GiygaS? Breath of fresh air from Drazak - you've been really helpful. Can we not lynch BC today, though? We need to have him making cases on people
I think GiggleS is town.
On May 05 2013 03:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:GiygaS was on Shiao and Clarity pretty early too. It makes me wonder if we're putting too much weight on potential bussing. They could've pulled a Boardwalk. I checked an older game of GiygaS, L was the first one I found. He was town and got shot N1 in a game with 42 players. Really good D1 with lots of long yet concise posts analyzing a myriad of players. (link)This game, he's done it a few times as well, like here and here. Concise posts, and he shows how his thought process evolves. At first, he doesn't suspect Ace (putting him as null), then rereads and changes his read. It's something he did in his town game as well. I see a lot of similarities, and his play seems to suggest a pro-town agenda. In general, too many similarities for me to consider him scum.
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I want to postpone all BC/Palmar related activities until tomorrow. We know one of them is town for neigh certain. That means there's at least one scummer whose name isn't BC/Palmar. I like BM's suggestion of giving you two a bit of breathing room. Stop defending yourselves, find scum.
WoS
What does confuse me is why WoS ragequit for a few days when people started believing him. When he was suspected, he posted a decent bit to defend himself. Fast forward to people no longer discussing him and he goes afk. Brought up again and now he's back, mostly to defend himself. Says the Yamato case on one of BC/Palmar being confirmed town due to JK thing makes sense but he doesn't actually give his own stance.
He could be a frustrated townie, but frustrated scum makes just as much sense.
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I wish you would help us solve the game.
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On May 06 2013 23:39 Sharrant wrote:
@Palmar
I liked the exchange between you and BC over the night; I think the reason you're finding his contributions suspicious is because of a difference in play styles.
I think BC just doesn't like to write things out, he said as much earlier in the game. You're both under the pressure of a lynch, so you go out of your way to back everything up with quotes and try to make it look good. He seems to be relying on his cred as a veteran, and the fact that when he flips people will know he's not lying about what he's written.
I want both of you alive for at least a cycle. I'm happy to lynch into the little list you guys came up with, it matches up for the most part with my thoughts with a few key differences, but they're fairly subjective I think.
There's a few divergent scenarios, but I think the most basic formula for our chain of lynches is such:
Dammit. I made beautiful tree diagrams but the TL site doesn't support that kind of formatting. I'll write it out as direct chains then.
Hopeless(town)->Yamato(town)->Palmar->BC
Hopeless(town)->Yamato(scum)->(unsure, this chain I'm least sure if I'd lynch another person before Palmar/BC)
Hopeless(scum)->giygas(scum)->gg
Hopeless(scum)->giygas(town)->unsure(town)->Palmar->BC
Just a basic idea of what I think we should do, I'm open for discussion on it, and it would obviously be reevaluated after the nks.
I really don't think I want to lynch Yamato, even if Hopeless flips town. I'm very confident in my town read on him. If people really want to lynch him after I'll reread his filter though.
GiggleS I think is town too, but my read is weaker on him. Why do you want GiggleS offed when Hopeless flips scum?
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On May 07 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 00:53 Sharrant wrote:On May 06 2013 23:47 TheRavensName wrote:On May 06 2013 23:39 Sharrant wrote:
@Palmar
I liked the exchange between you and BC over the night; I think the reason you're finding his contributions suspicious is because of a difference in play styles.
I think BC just doesn't like to write things out, he said as much earlier in the game. You're both under the pressure of a lynch, so you go out of your way to back everything up with quotes and try to make it look good. He seems to be relying on his cred as a veteran, and the fact that when he flips people will know he's not lying about what he's written.
I want both of you alive for at least a cycle. I'm happy to lynch into the little list you guys came up with, it matches up for the most part with my thoughts with a few key differences, but they're fairly subjective I think.
There's a few divergent scenarios, but I think the most basic formula for our chain of lynches is such:
Dammit. I made beautiful tree diagrams but the TL site doesn't support that kind of formatting. I'll write it out as direct chains then.
Hopeless(town)->Yamato(town)->Palmar->BC
Hopeless(town)->Yamato(scum)->(unsure, this chain I'm least sure if I'd lynch another person before Palmar/BC)
Hopeless(scum)->giygas(scum)->gg
Hopeless(scum)->giygas(town)->unsure(town)->Palmar->BC
Just a basic idea of what I think we should do, I'm open for discussion on it, and it would obviously be reevaluated after the nks. Quick question about this chain. Why is Hopeless first if your vote is on Yamato? I was in a rush to get ready. On May 07 2013 00:03 WaveofShadow wrote:I remember thinking right before I went to bed last night that I had the game solved but now I can't remember why. Fuck. I do know one thing: there are at least a couple people here sitting on vital information right now and while I partially know what's going on, I don't know if I know the whole story, so I won't say much other than personally I feel it's probably best if the people sitting on info reveal said info---it will really make the game a whole lot easier. Not to say we can't win without it, I just don't personally see the reason it's being held back. Now with that being said I'll reveal what I know for sure. TRN masoned me the night before. We are not masoned currently. I have absolutely no reason to believe he is scum, though I am unsure as to what he thinks of me and am not quite sure why he attempted to grill me before. On May 06 2013 20:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I want to postpone all BC/Palmar related activities until tomorrow. We know one of them is town for neigh certain. That means there's at least one scummer whose name isn't BC/Palmar. I like BM's suggestion of giving you two a bit of breathing room. Stop defending yourselves, find scum.
WoS
What does confuse me is why WoS ragequit for a few days when people started believing him. When he was suspected, he posted a decent bit to defend himself. Fast forward to people no longer discussing him and he goes afk. Brought up again and now he's back, mostly to defend himself. Says the Yamato case on one of BC/Palmar being confirmed town due to JK thing makes sense but he doesn't actually give his own stance.
He could be a frustrated townie, but frustrated scum makes just as much sense. People no loner discussing me lol. I was extremely active up until 2 days ago and people stopped discussing me LONG before that if you'd read. I was frustrated for reasons I'm not necessarily comfortable divulging, however there are things that have led me to believe that Palmar is scum. I am curious as to what leaving im alive actually accomplishes, and why Sharrant no longer appears to want to lynch him. I'm not sure where you get that I no longer want to lynch him. You'll notice that every scenario I posted that doesn't end in us killing scum in the next 2 lynches then goes on to lynching him, and if we kill scum in one of those two lynches, it only moves lynching Palmar back by one lynch. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that instead of just not reading the thread, you meant that it appears I no longer want to lynch him today. And yes, that is correct. If he's not scum, then scum now know that there's a very real possibility that he is an insane detective and will most likely be forced to shoot him. If he is scum, we've still got another person who is much less obvious to lynch than him and I'd rather go after them. If he's still around after two night cycles, and we haven't lynched a scum, then it's time to lynch Palmar. Alright, but then you're assuming that Palmar does what you want him to do, which he's already proven that he will not by not following Ace's plan. (I am well aware that Ace was 3p, but the agreement at the time was that all 3 dts were supposed to check each other IIRC, and Palmar was the only one who did not adhere---I believe at the time the plan was made we were supposed to lynch him if he did that?) I honestly don't know how you can be sure of anything Palmar has done or will do; it seems as though all he has been doing all game is buying himself time, which we have given him over and over again.
It's very simple. If he doesn't check you, we lynch him. Back then people didn't _really_ want to lynch Palmar, now people are frothing at the mouth to do so. He will check you and confirm whether he's insane or paranoid. If he's scum it's a lose/lose situation for him. Either he claims insane and confirms BC and can't push him anymore, or he claims paranoid and knows that he no longer has any inherent advantage over BC in the lynching order.
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It's not the smart thing to do.
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On May 07 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote:
He's the only person besides Hopeless, and perhaps you, that I would consider mafia.
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg)
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On May 07 2013 01:55 yamato77 wrote:
Idk dude, it seems like your plan is designed to keep Palmar alive rather than actually figure out his true alignment.
He claims to have an information role.
I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information.
...this is scummy how?
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Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town?
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On May 07 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 01:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 01:55 yamato77 wrote:
Idk dude, it seems like your plan is designed to keep Palmar alive rather than actually figure out his true alignment. He claims to have an information role. I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information. ...this is scummy how? Because the information it supposedly gains us is only useful if he's town, and it's not even necessarily that useful in the first place.
Yes, and there's no downside to letting him live for a day more to have a practically confirmed BC in case he IS town. When Palmar flips and he flips green BC is in a whole lotta shit. If we confirm he's insane and not paranoid and he flips cop then we might not actually end up killing BC, saving us a potential mislynch.
On May 07 2013 02:01 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 01:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town? So you look good when everyone else decides to lynch me?
Fair point, but I won't let you get lynched.
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On May 07 2013 02:02 Palmar wrote:
Hell, from before the shenanigans you actually wrote that it's more likely that BC is scum than me, then you somehow flip that around based on nothing, I suppose, to an unholy crusade wanting to lynch me today.
I'm pretty sure I know why, actually.
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On May 07 2013 02:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 02:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 01:55 yamato77 wrote:
Idk dude, it seems like your plan is designed to keep Palmar alive rather than actually figure out his true alignment. He claims to have an information role. I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information. ...this is scummy how? Because the information it supposedly gains us is only useful if he's town, and it's not even necessarily that useful in the first place. Yes, and there's no downside to letting him live for a day more to have a practically confirmed BC in case he IS town. When Palmar flips and he flips green BC is in a whole lotta shit. If we confirm he's insane and not paranoid and he flips cop then we might not actually end up killing BC, saving us a potential mislynch. On May 07 2013 02:01 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town? So you look good when everyone else decides to lynch me? Fair point, but I won't let you get lynched. I'll have to mull it over. I guess I'm fine with killing off Hopeless today, but something feels off about the lynch. I don't like how everyone has now invented desire to lynch Hopeless.
It might just be that Hopeless has given up and given permission to the other scum to bus him. He did sound fairly defeatist earlier.
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On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town.
I brought this up earlier. Scum doesn't know Ace is 3rd party for sure though. It could be a veteran too. Also, there is someone that pushed Ace. Yamato kept bringing Ace to the table.
I already talked about this scenario before though.
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Hopeless stop making me feel bad about my vote goddamnit.
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On May 07 2013 15:27 Bill Murray wrote:
anyone home?
Just caught up, sup?
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BM, it's not nice to ring a doorbell then run away.
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On May 07 2013 16:28 yamato77 wrote:
Any comment on today's bullshit, Artanis?
BC tunneling you, not much surprise there. Don't actually have much time atm, will comment more after work.
Will policy lynch anyone that hammers you before I get the chance to comment.
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Oh what I did want to bring up was that Yamato claimed to know who he thought the JK was. There's no reason for him to bring that up if he's scum, it felt like a genuine passing comment, and one I don't think he would've made if he were scum.
On May 03 2013 03:02 yamato77 wrote:
Oh, and I'm certain that there is a town JK, and I'm fairly sure I know who he is.
/working 4realz
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Just kidding. BC, you said you suspect a Hopeless/Yamato team. Yamato, you suspect Hopeless/Palmar. I'm moderately happy to lynch Hopeless, so why don't we?
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EPT
