EPTOn April 06 2013 04:35 austinmcc wrote:
I don't mind the caller arguing with Keirathi.
I don't mind the caller arguing with Keirathi.
Do you think he has a point? Do you think I am scum?
Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 3
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Do you think he has a point? Do you think I am scum? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:49 sinani206 wrote: There's nothing wrong with him making a case on you. That's not what I asked at all. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:55 austinmcc wrote: I do think he has some points. I think you're worth watching, but more for non-caller reasons. This post: Still doesn't make me feel the happy-haps. I disagree with you when you say that you weren't the guy who suggest lynching folks who hit town. I said I wasn't the one who suggested policy lynching people for using nukes. After Oats suggested it, I did suggest the addendum, obviously. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways. Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 06 2013 05:58 austinmcc wrote: In some ways it's a "If you give a mouse a cookie" scenario. If you suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with nukes, then you kind of have to suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with dayvig powers. If you suggest lynching daynukers and dayvigs, you should probably also be lynching any night vigs who claim their shots and hit townies. You're suggesting, at the very least, lynching SOME vigis who hit townies, if not all. There are a boatload of posts from earlier on why I think that/that policy is a bad idea. MZ had some too. I'm fine saying "townies shouldn't be shooting." See those posts. I'm fine if decon or someone jokingly/seriously says "I'm taking KP roles and blasting someone in the face every day no matter what anyone says." Well, not fine, but I honestly wouldn't find that scummy. I find the half-position that I get from your post, that townies maybe shouldn't shoot, but maybe they should, except if they do and hit town they'll get lynched. You're implicitly saying, "Townies, you guys should shoot, but only hit scum, kkk." Which is unrealistic to expect, a poor plan for KP roles imo, and just generally not what I'd expect from you. That's not what I'm saying at all thought. I don't think townies should be shooting. I thought I made that perfectly clear. But I am also a realist, and I know that people are going to shoot if they want to shoot. I am trying to discourage them from doing so, in a way that saying "pretty please play nice" won't. | ||
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Keirathi
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Why would I be telling townies to shoot, when I also specifically told townies to take protection/investigation roles because they are stronger than KP roles? Does not compute. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote: 3. RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch. If you read the thread up to this point, VE isn't the first and likely won't be the last to suspect RO. IIRC Rayn, Gonzaw and someone else already expressed thoughts that they were suspicious of RO. He hasn't shown a great deal of activity. His posts haven't established him either way. This is an easy lynch to push just like the Greymist lynch was an easy one to push. Yo, broski. How do you know that RO is town? | ||
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Keirathi
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BC said the game would be delayed 24 hours, so I went out on the lake today with some friends. Catching up/etc now. | ||
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Keirathi
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Damn, you caught me in that lie. I was really jerking it for 12 hours straight. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 07 2013 10:01 Bill Murray wrote: I'm seeing a pattern emergy, though Sharrant calls out Keirathi > gets a wagon on him started >Keirathi shows up Strong and Big gets FoSed >posts 10 minutes later all these lameo excuses When VE was being attacked, persecuted... no... harassed... over his failure to contribute on DAY ZERO, and his lack of a solid case/scumhunting... he doesn't show up no excuses, nothing. There's no way he's scum. The VE I know would be flailing as scum right now... this guy is just... not here. It's like he is a husk of the player that I have seen on this site before. VE just completely disappeared and didn't even try to fight his lynch when he was scum in Hydra. Bad heuristic if that's what you're using to judge if VE is town or not. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 07 2013 10:05 Bill Murray wrote: I wasn't in "Hydra", bub I know you weren't. I'm just telling you that it wouldn't be unheard of for a scum VE to give up. And town VE could/has done it too. Not alignment indicative. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads: Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia. If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 07 2013 12:15 yamato77 wrote: Does town Palmar try to look involved at all if he doesn't care about the game? I'll look back at some other games, but it doesn't seem all that different from Hydra/RED Team. Comments on rayn? | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 07 2013 12:32 yamato77 wrote: He spams I'm avoiding talking about the spammers right now since we have so many. Not good lynches, IMO. You're right, He does spam. But even that is such a huge difference from his town play (although I will admit I haven't read XXXIX or whatever game he was scum in). His MENTALITY is just so different though. I just can't see how such a drastic change in playstyle is possible in ~3 days or whatever since RED ended. And I said I would go look back at other Palmar games and get back to you. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 07 2013 12:34 yamato77 wrote: You fail to understand what I'm saying. Town Palmar doesn't give fucks, sure, but he doesn't make a point of telling the thread multiple times that he doesn't give a fuck. He's better than any of you guys' lynchbait options. Okay, so I did go back and look at Palmar. Particularly his town play in PYP: Redux, and even flipped through a few of his scum games. From PYP: Redux, he had a couple of posts saying that he wasn't reading the thread/everything was spam/the pick phase was unimportant. Granted, not nearly as many as he has here, but why does it make him scum this time? And on top of that, I just don't see the sentiment in his scum play either. So again: why, specifically, is this a scumtell for Palmar? Looking through his filter this game, I just don't see anything I find particularly alignment indicative. It's just a bunch of bullshit that he is perfectly capable of as either alignment. I'm much more interested in who he pushes and why. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 07 2013 13:25 yamato77 wrote: He's pushing VE. How do you feel about VE? I'll be completely honest: I have absolutely no idea how to read VE. In both games I've played with him [on my own*], I've thought he was scum and been completely wrong. (*Exception being Hydra, but that was just marv. I actually didn't have an opinion on VE before marv started telling me he was scum). I will say that I have noticed something that scum VE does that town VE doesn't. He hasn't done it yet this game. And obviously I can't say what it is, because then he would just know to avoid doing it. I'll expound on it later if something changes. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 07 2013 14:12 Mocsta wrote: Mr. Meta king Keirathi. Can you give me your opinion on S&B. I only have played games where he was town. Despite playing with scum S&B twice (Chrono and WLIAA), I don't actually know his scumplay very well. Partly because I refuse to go back and read Chrono (that game just needs to be wiped from the annuls of history), and partly because scum S&B just played an excellent game in WLIIA, which everyone who is familiar with his typical scumplay said was abnormal. So about this game: After whoever it was called him out, S&B came out of the woodworks to say: On April 07 2013 06:07 strongandbig wrote: Lol when did I consider the number picking strategy to be very important Afaik i haven't posted anything of substance since the game started, but I'm a little confused about what you meant by "concerned about roles" when the game started? So why did he say that - On April 04 2013 19:33 strongandbig wrote: Afaik pyp games are often determined by "this bullshit". The picking phase strategy is a big part of the game. And I sort of agree with denying scum roles, but we should limit it to one or maybe two roles, because if we have strong consensus townies early in the order then giving them actual good roles could be very powerful. Also oats the draft order is public knowledge. Logic would decree that if you say you think PYP games are won or lost based on the picking phase strategy, that you would think the picking phase is important. So why does he say that he never thought that? But more importantly, with the earlier quote, is that he ostensibly thinks that the picking strategy is important. Yet he does absolutely nothing to contribute to it at all. Why not? Yea, I could see S&B being scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 07 2013 14:36 Mocsta wrote: Yes, im comfortable with a SnB vote as well. My expectations for a town SnB are more of a personal heuristic, from "The Game" ObsQT where SnB berated me for poor play, incessantly. Im not getting any of that vibe from him this game at all. In fact, his emphasis in that ObsQT exchange was that town shouldnt be posting useless/nothing posts; yet, here ironically he admits he hasnt posted "anything of substance since the game started". ##Vote: StrongandBig Talk to me about rayn first. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
EBWOP: Also, I guess I should say that town S&B didn't really berate people for poor play in RED that I remember. And berating people for poor play in an Obs QT when you weren't even part of the game is something that lots of people do. I don't think its specific to S&B or to S&B's town play at all. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 07 2013 14:43 Bill Murray wrote: Rayn is town or is playing nice as scum Did you read my case? :o I don't think he's playing nice at all. I think he's playing very different from the way he thinks and acts when he's town. | ||
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