Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 16

On April 04 2013 23:44 deconduo wrote:
Morning all, things seem to have gotten heated pretty quickly. I've just skimmed the thread so far but I'm going to jump in with my opinion on the draft.

Setting predefined picks for the draft order tends to work out well for town. In fact it is a large reason for mafia getting caught out in the last two PYP games I played. However it is massively un-fun, and I feel goes against the spirit of the game. Its also the reason I got rid of the whole drafting phase in the PTP games I hosted.

If the majority want to go along with a pre-defined pick order, I'll co-operate. But given that there are almost three times more roles than players, why not have a free for all and play the game like its supposed to be played?

On April 04 2013 23:51 austinmcc wrote:
Sharrant, I agree with most of the roles you find powerful (i skipped thief in my list but it should be added with swapper and copy cat).

Inventor was a consideration of mine, but the fact that you have to give your inventions to other players weakens it somewhat. Possible that mafia end up implicating themselves slightly if they're only giving inventions to each other, and each player can only receive inventions once. Plus all inventions have to be one-shot, and you can't re-invent the same thing. There are enough restrictions that it limits the ability for the role to cause serious damage.

As to denying roles/RNGing later down the list, I think it's a good idea if we can get people to agree on a plan of denial. The fact that mafia has a single factional KP is very important, especially in a game where we could also have a lot of protective roles. They NEED roles to win this, town doesn't. Time favors town, especially in a game where people can be outed based on what they pick, how they use, detective checks, etc. etc. I don't like the idea of having someone too far down the list RNG. Mafia is going to want x role or y role. The further down the list the RNG happens, the higher the chance that: (1) multiple mafioso are above the RNGer, and can pull shennanies; (2) mafia can just risk the RNG, because the chance that RNG steals the role they want to preserve are lower (50% chance at pick 3 last game, 20% chance at pick 6).

On April 04 2013 23:56 yamato77 wrote:

I've specifically addressed this point before, but I will reiterate.

You removed the draft order because of how you feel the game should be played. BC, then, made an obvious decision to NOT do that. Don't you think he has a reason for doing that? Should we just ignore possible advantages gained from setup just because we feel like it goes "against the spirit of the game"? If BC felt that way, why did he include the draft order? If he doesn't feel that way, why are you not trying your hardest to win? If it isn't against the rules, isn't it presumed by the host that it might happen?

On April 05 2013 00:02 Oatsmaster wrote:

oh god dont mention the host as a way of making your point.
Please dont.

Austin, arent the mafia favoured roles instantly killed when they are outed anyway, because they chose that role = they are mafia? Like we dont need to say 'OH YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF AT THE START. SCUM'

Also arent there only like 4-5 roles that everyone knows that are best for scum?

I just dont see how this discussion is a useful way to spend our time

On April 05 2013 00:03 Sharrant wrote:


And what, pray tell, is a more important way to spend our time at this very moment? What would you rather be discussing?

On April 05 2013 00:02 Oatsmaster wrote:

oh god dont mention the host as a way of making your point.
Please dont.

Austin, arent the mafia favoured roles instantly killed when they are outed anyway, because they chose that role = they are mafia? Like we dont need to say 'OH YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF AT THE START. SCUM'

Also arent there only like 4-5 roles that everyone knows that are best for scum?

I just dont see how this discussion is a useful way to spend our time

On April 05 2013 00:03 Sharrant wrote:


And what, pray tell, is a more important way to spend our time at this very moment? What would you rather be discussing?

On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
oh deconduo too.

So you arent in favor of directing picks even though it wins the game right?

On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
What is good out of the PYP games that you played previously and want to implement/do in this game since it is also a PYP game?

On April 04 2013 23:56 yamato77 wrote:
You removed the draft order because of how you feel the game should be played. BC, then, made an obvious decision to NOT do that. Don't you think he has a reason for doing that? Should we just ignore possible advantages gained from setup just because we feel like it goes "against the spirit of the game"? If BC felt that way, why did he include the draft order? If he doesn't feel that way, why are you not trying your hardest to win? If it isn't against the rules, isn't it presumed by the host that it might happen?

On April 05 2013 00:05 austinmcc wrote:
Prince of Darkness is another role that I don't think is as powerful as looks. It's an extra night cycle, which COULD be devastating in large games where mafia has 3 KP or so, but here they just have 1 and their powers.

It's a one-shot skip-a-day. It's pardoner but without the information from the day. Because of their limited KP, I don't think it' ALL that strong as it gives all DTs a second check, medics will still be active, etc. etc. I don't think the setup makes it stronger than a multi-vig, when their real concern is most likely to be lack of KP.


I don't want to talk more about RNG right at this moment. Big game, want to see more discussion and thoughts from others before we go deeper with that.

On April 05 2013 00:09 deconduo wrote:


Pretty much. This is not a new opinion, I've said the same in every PYP game I've played.



Good question actually. If you take the drafting part out of the equation, the game plays out pretty much the same as any insane type setup. Apart from that, you can start deducing roles from vanilla claims, flips and actions taken. Some roles will be pretty obvious once they are used, such as janitor, PoD etc. Once you know that a role is in the game you can start working out who has it, and if they've used it in a pro or anti-town manner.




You can try your hardest to win without taking advantage of what you consider to be faults in the system. As I said, if people prefer to play to win no matter what, I'll go along with them. I'm just stating my objection in the hopes that other people will feel the same was as I do.

If cheesing every game gave you the best chance to win, would you still do it?

On April 05 2013 00:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
Contradiction CITY. (for me)

Why caller Yamato?

Why is him being hilarious, scummy?

On April 05 2013 00:15 yamato77 wrote:

He's being disruptive to this discussion, just like you. You're just both doing it in different ways.

For you, at least, I expect a certain amount of repeating bad questions. Caller, I know little about, but that's the point of asking.

On April 05 2013 00:14 yamato77 wrote:

You define it as cheesing. BC did not. There's no reason to needlessly eliminate strategies that are beneficial to your wincon if they are perfectly within the rules, and should have been considered in the balancing of the game.

That's why the Koreans were so good at "cheese" early on in SC2, because while the westerners were being idealistic in their play, the Koreans played to win, and did. If mafia can't figure out how to combat this strategy within this setup, then they deserve to lose, because I have specifically talked about counterplay.

On April 05 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:


Why dont you just lynch yourself every game then? You disrupt the game too sometimes.

Thats a really really really bad argument for me/Caller for being scum.

On April 05 2013 00:18 deconduo wrote:


I think you've misunderstood me. I'm objecting to it because its not fun, not because its unfair to the mafia. That's completely aside from the point I'm making. If I felt it was anti-town I would still be against it.

Cheesing is good to throw in every once in a while to mix things up, but if you did it every game it would be boring as fuck. I feel the same way about the picking strats. Why not let everyone pick what they want for once, instead of forcing everyone to pick based on the position they get in the draft.

On April 05 2013 00:20 yamato77 wrote:

Do you want mafia getting all of the ridiculous OP roles and auto-winning the game?

I don't. So I plan against that happening.