|
On March 28 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, how do you view me given I basically pushed two mislynches?
First of all we can't be sure if Keirathi actually is town. I don't think you are mafia at the moment. I have agreed with a good portion of your reads as i have made the same observations myself. On top of that you are the only one who is willing to discuss my suspicions and actually pays attention to them. So atm i have no reason to think you are mafia. I don't think Nisani flipping green proves much at this point in a way or another.
Acro:
Rayn is also a weird vote: he mentions Nisani quite a few times in a list of people he feels are scummy, but never really does anything about it until he feels he has to consolidate (way earlier than he actually has to). He then hops onto the Keirathi wagon, once again to consolidate: this time he hops OFF the leading wagon in order to consolidate, which just increases the chance of a no-lynch. And then jumps back onto Nisani. Given both Nisani is town and Keir probable town, this feels like "as long as a townie gets lynched, I'm cool with it" votes.
I had a case on OO. Which noone besides marv was even willing to take a look at regardless of me pushing the case. Oats was not going to happen. When prplhz started contributing i read him as town. Smurf made sense in the other half of the cycle. Nisani was being wishy washy about everything and had a couple of very strange town reads and was not contributing at all. I thought sinani lynch was pushed by mafia (as i explained). I don't know where do you except me to put my vote on that situation, when the candidates are Nisani/prplhz/sinani?
As for Keirathi. I think marv's case on him made sense and already half of the players voting for Nisani had swapped to Keir. So yeah, i switched because i agreed to marv's case on him and because i thought there was no way Nisani lynch was going to happen. I thought there was only 15minutes left in the phase, not 1h 15min.
And why wouldn't i hop back on Nisani when Keir claimed? I don't even know what you are trying to point out there. That i should have by some strange reason voted sinani after Keir/Cora claim?
|
Also Acro. If i was scum why wouldn't i just stay on Nisani in the first place? What's the point of voteswitching as i am in your scenario switching from a townie to another townie? Also why do you even bring that up because it's not even confirmed that Keirathi is town.
|
On March 28 2013 23:48 Acrofales wrote:
That's quite the frustration there. When I look at the votes I see things that I thought were weird. I point them out. You answer. Why the angst?
Mainly because i thought i expressed my thoughts on D1 when i was doing this stuff clearly enough. Guess not. And because i already answered the same questions to Hapa a page or so ago.
Also, I remember your OO case and you explicitly asked me about it. I admit that it was long and I was busy at work, so I didn't give it the attention it deserved at the time. Mainly because my own read on him at the time was null with some town tells. Since then I've been rereading him. Do you still think he's scum?
OO gets an A for effort, but it seems misdirected. He spends a long time analysing trivialities. I'm still falling on the side of misguided townie effort, but I agree with you that some of the words he uses seem weird from a town mindset, so I am not fully convinced in my read. Why do you think he's scum?
I do. I don't like his N! posts, because from what i can tell everything is based on that sinani is scum. If sinani is in fact town the whole big effort is worth nothing or even misleading. The only relevant question there is "is sinani a lynch candidate tomorrow?" and i think the answer is yes, unless he town tells. Don't get me wrong, of course the people who voted for Nisani should be analyzed, but not only them. OO seems to be trying to direct the attention to only those people, which i don't think is the right way to analyze D1 voting behaviour.
As for your question: if scum thinks they can justify switching wagons, and the wagon is gaining speed fast, then sure, why not switch? As for Keirathi not being confirmed: you're right, but I am choosing to believe he's town. If he's scum then this point is clearly moot, but looking over Cora's filter in particular gives me quite a lot of confidence that they're town.
Actually you are right. And i am too choosing to believe Keir is town at the moment. But anyone choosing to believe someone is town does not make them town.
|
|
|
Smurf will receive one of my votes. He says he expected Cora to be more aggressive early on in the game. I think Cora was pretty agressive with me (and he was also calling Acro out), there really was nothing else to talk about at that time. Cora took clear stances on all discussion topics there were at that time. I don't know how Cora could have been more aggressive, as he a couple of minutes later posted a case on me. He says Cora has been tunneling him for all the game which is clearly not true. Then he says he himself is not tunneling Cora. Wtf man, if Cora is tunneling you you are definitely tunneling him. Then there is his clear blue snipe comment. Smurf, explain what made you think the vigi shot was a scum blue snipe? Did you even read Grack's filter to confirm if there was a reason to believe he was blue? Or did you just throw that out because it could make sense as Grack flipped blue? After the mason claim Smurf says he's going to ignore Keir/Cora but when they call him out he is discrediting them by comments like this:
On March 28 2013 16:30 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Anyway, actually going to bed
We'll see how this develops tomorrow. I'll be pursuing a different line of thought at that point. You two are going to be hard scum to lynch, if I'm right.
On March 28 2013 16:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I take my case very seriously
You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons
Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit.
On March 28 2013 16:43 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 28 2013 16:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I take my case very seriously
You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons
Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit. "You've been calling me scum, yet haven't pursued me. But I just want to call you scum and then not pursue you anymore" What? That's a gross oversimplification of this situation. The fact that between the two of you, you have one solid scum read (me), and that your strongest claim to being town is being masoned with each other is just ridiculous. However, what I do know is that town realizing this takes time, and during that point in time, there are other things worth pursuing.
On March 29 2013 03:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Still don't like Keir/Cora, but whatever, Cora tunnels me all fucking day every fucking game, so I'll ignore them for the time being. It's lylo-type stuff anyway, with their claim and all.
How about you tell us who do you want to lynch instead of who you can't?
My other vote will likely go to sinani/marv/OO. I gotta reread those guys filters and decide. If marv continues how he has been the whole day 2 he will surely receive my vote, that's just fucking dumb.
|
Then there is his clear blue snipe comment.
EBWOP: Then there is his weird blue snipe comment.
|
|
|
Okay, i'll vote for sinani for the other lynch.
Pre-flip:
On March 27 2013 15:54 sinani206 wrote:OK, Nisani is scum. He's been using soft reads all game to make it look like he's contributing, saying people "look" or "feel" some way or another. He uses words like "possible" and "likely", phrases like "not really." Asking others useless questions to fill up his posts. Nisani is not acting as a townie should ask. He is hesitant and incomplete in his "analysis" and has been trying to deter discussion ( here and here). Not to mention voting prplhz with no reasoning and only 2 sentences mentioning him, asking for a vote count before voting. Nisani's play is not townlike. There are no third parties. Therefore he is scum.
On March 28 2013 05:16 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 05:11 sinani206 wrote:On March 28 2013 05:05 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 05:02 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 28 2013 04:58 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 28 2013 04:55 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Marv and Oats:
Right now, adding in the Kei case is anti-consolidation. Because a lack of consolidation would mean a no-lynch, anti-consolidation would mean anti-town.
Why are you guys trying to add in another case to steal potential votes away from Nisani? To save your scumbuddy by forcing a no-lynch, yet at the same time looking like you are scum hunting?
It's not very hard to see through your ruse, Marv.
My town read on you = gone. Why the fuck does marv pushing another player from you mean that he is scum?? You seem 100% sure that Nisani is scum. Why are you so sure? I'm not 100% sure Nisani is scum, but I'm more sure about him than I am with Yamato. There's no use making a hipster vote because we need to lynch someone today. A no-lynch would only leave us with more questions and give the scum a huge victory for D1. It's not because he is pushing a different players, it's because he is pushing a new read so close to the deadline. It reeks of trying to save Nisani from being lynched. @Hapa: I think you are putting way too much faith in Nisani's meta. I went and read his vote on Acro and there's not much beside him quoting one scummy sentence and saying that Acro doesn't have much else in his filter so he must be scum. His vote on prp is absolutely silly, and he has refused to give a reason. Just like you shouldn't build cases solely on metas, you shouldn't build defenses solely on metas. Fuck me I need to do a podcast on meta. All y'alls have no idea what you're doing when it comes to it. Meta is fantastic for highlight broad/general differences in mentality. In Nisani's case, he has very two different mindsets between his scum and town games wiht a HUGE sample-size to back it up. While he's a lurker in all his games, his town games are markedly more productive. He pushes cases, and tries to scumhunt, and all his posts are towards an objective purpose. When he's scum, he's "chatty," "trolly," and barely contributes. And this is consistent over MANY MANY of his games. 4 scumgames, and many more town games. Nisani plays very similarly as scum and town, and according to you, I know him well. This knowledge of him allows me to determine whether he is scum or town more efficiently than others (hint: you) who seem to be extremely confused Could you tell me what distinguishes his scum and townplay then? What are you seeing here that you see in his usual mafia play but not his town play? As town, Nisani generally uses very logical analysis to determine who is scum and will stay confident on said player. As scum, Nisani is unsure and just tries to win favor of the town without being too aggressive, which is what he has done in this game.
After flip:
On March 28 2013 07:01 sinani206 wrote:
well apparently my gut is rusty...
I would call his pre-flip case more than gut.
Other than that he has been after prplhz this game. And all that he has done regarding that is to ask one question from him (which prplhz didn't even answer) and that's it. Now he "want's to hear more from him". Cool.
##Vote: InsertSmurfHere
##Vote: sinani206
|
Because he has not done anything after N1 when he said he'd be looking more into some players and was not sure about many players. He should look into them and not have a full page of filter saying he is okay with him being lynched. On D2 he has basically said he needs to reread some players (without doing so at least yet) and getting emo on the votes on him.
|
I said i will vote for him if that does not change. It's not scummy yet but if he fails to do what he has promised (look into players he said he would - come up with something that helps us finding scum) and continues with the "vote for me to die kthxplz" then it is scummy.
|
On March 29 2013 23:26 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 20:44 marvellosity wrote:
prplhz, explain your vote on me you pussy. I don't know who is scum and maybe doing something will lead to something.
Maybe you should start looking for scum?
|
Okay. prplhz continues being terribad again when there is only little suspicion on him. S&B's claim is probably legit. I don't see a reason why would he do that as mafia.
Marv:
[b]I pretty much am going to rescind rayn, Acro, dandel as people I'm leaning town on. OO too I guess.
Elaborate please.
If you let aside Yamato, what are your current thoughts on prplhz based on his N1 & D2 contributions?[/quote]
|
EBWOP:
Okay. prplhz continues being terribad again when there is only little suspicion on him. S&B's claim is probably legit. I don't see a reason why would he do that as mafia.
Marv:
I pretty much am going to rescind rayn, Acro, dandel as people I'm leaning town on. OO too I guess.
Elaborate please.
If you let aside Yamato, what are your current thoughts on prplhz based on his N1 & D2 contributions?
|
On March 30 2013 07:32 strongandbig wrote:
question for Ryan
what happened between the end of day1 and the start of day2 that changed your read on obviousone? He was your main suspect most of day 1 and you posted a case on him (and I still think he is scum) but at the start of day2 you voted for smurf and sinani
After D2 begun and i caught up with the thread i took a full re-look to the whole game, especially my own play. I was obviously wrong about Palmar (and probably about Hapa) and trusted marv who looked town to me regarding the people i had not had time to read into (no, i have not time to read both everyone's filters + the thread so i drop out the people who do not interest me at that time, and focus on people who i find scummy + the thread).
So come D2:
I understood the Smurf thing about defending prplhz, that was really weird he was defending him based on meta before prplhz even started posting for real. Other than that there was his terribad case from D1 and rest of the stuff is in the post where i say he'll get one of my votes.
I reread sinani's filter and the guy has not done shit. I want to keep my vote on him until he starts doing something for the town.
I still think OO is scummy. The reasons from D1 have not gone anywhere. I think his N1 big posts are kinda.. I dunno. Correct me if i am wrong but for me it seems like the whole debate about analyzing the Nisani wagon is useless unless sinani flips scum. I think people should be analyzed for why they decided to vote for either of sinani/Nisani, and not "when, and only Nisani". Also in his last post he talks about marv really weirdly. This part:
Furthermore, looking for people who resisted joining the Nisani bandwagon - i.e. scum would know he would flip town and thus might not be willing to pile on it willingly - and their reasoning for doing so can help us analyze the votes. For instance, how Marv brought up Keirathi close to the end of day. Let's check where his vote was parked before that:
Rayn
Me
Nisani
Kei
Nisani
If you have a scum read on Marv then this concept makes sense, Marv distancing himself from a Nisani lynch by bringing up Kei towards the end of the day. This is, by itself not enough information to call Marv scummy, but also reflect on how he's been mostly withholding his reads while still engaging in the thread. It speaks to a certain amount of calculation that I don't think anyone would put past the skill of Marv. Then again it could be coincidental and that's why I'm waiting to see what he's going to push today and how.
A couple of things here:
1) marv's votes on me & OO were just "meh" -votes. Why bring them up as they were not "real" at all?
2) "If you have a scum read on Marv then this concept makes sense" - what does this mean? He is bringing up something to analyze marv's behaviour and then he says "if you think marv is scum, this makes sense", what? Why does it make less sense for marv to be scum if you had a townread on him?
3) But then it does not necessarily make marv scummy and if you do not have a scumread on marv you can just pass by this..?
4) So does marv's voting behaviour make sense from scum/town perspective and why? He gives out a big analyses and ends it with "we can't know what this does mean". What's the point?
I could get behind OO lynch aswell, but i want to see more from sinani now. Also from marv, and prplhz should do some scumhunting instead of "who killed that guy?" that has taken him nowhere afaik.
|
On March 30 2013 08:28 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 08:13 strongandbig wrote:
Sinani got autocorrected on my phine what's a phine? are you just messing with me? I think his posting remind me more of this than of this so I don't want to lynch him. I don't care that he's not around at all. There's a reason sinani206 hasn't played on this forum for a while and it probably has something to do with how other players sometimes feel about him, and I think sometimes it's even perfectly reasonable to feel that way about him (though I don't remember that he's ever ruined any game I've been in) because: sometimes sinani206 does aggravating shit for no reason. As I see it, the reason sinani206 isn't around right now is that he got bored with the game after helping to mislynch his pal and so he left. It has absolutely nothing to do with his alignment.
Has somebody been rude or something to sinani? And mislynching your friend is not really a good reason to stop playing don't you think?
|
marv, tell me what are the reasons for mafia!S&B to make this post:
On March 27 2013 23:23 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 12:55 ObviousOne wrote:On March 27 2013 11:16 Grackaroni wrote:On March 27 2013 11:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nobody is going to vote OO/Oats/Smurf either way whatever i say. And Grack has not dona anythig useful. I would be okay switching into one of those three or Nisani/prplhz, but nobody is going to listen to me anyways so what the hell. Better to trust people i trust are town then. lol see what the hell is this. I thought he was town but nobody is going to listen to me so now I'll just vote for town. Yeah I'm actually starting to lean scum on Rayn myself. The seed was planted earlier in my second post when I said that it was possible a tired Rayn could have scum slipped. I don't recall a response to that particular sentence I pointed out, but then again I didn't phrase it as a question. For reference: On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote:==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Anyone seeing what I'm seeing here? Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.
I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. -snip irrelevant portion- Moving forward in the filter, I see him having scum reads on me and several other people I would consider town at this point.: On March 27 2013 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
PALMAR LET GO OF CORA AND GRACK AND FOCUS ON SCUM LIKE OO/OATS/SMURF/NISANI PLZ!
Don't you see thye have disappeared when townies call out other townies and laugh in the background. Man, you should be able to see that.
Who of those guys are mafia? I'm more null on Nisani but the rest are more town than scummy to me right now. So let's look at what he's brought up against his proposed alternate lynches: On March 27 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 27 2013 05:11 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 05:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 27 2013 05:05 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: (sorry for triple)
To finish the thought, you're really just defending Grack outright without giving me a proper alternative and I don't like it. I just gave you some names who are not you. Oats / Smurf. Why not lynch them? Get off your ridiculous reasoning and tell us why other than 'go look at my filter, I cba to explain it to you' If you dont know specifically why or if you cant concisely put down a few reasons, how could we think of these people as scum? (yes it includes me, no thats not the point) Okay, here is your fucking reasoning:Oats:Oats is calling S&B scum for his bad case and Smurf he is leaning town on for equally bad case. Both of the cases are based on same (apparently false/bad) meta-reads. After being called out does a full 180. Has no scum reads other than slightly leaning scum on Smurf (in that 180). Smurf:Smurf is leaving out stuff that does not speak in favor of his DI case. Stuff that he should have obviously checked. Does defend the case later on when people call him out on it. Can't be any sort of reaction test (rofl Nisani). Other than that this is all he has done: On March 27 2013 03:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Cora, you have essentially one read that you've fleshed out, and that read has met significant resistance with the thread. Why don't you give a read on a different player? I know you are capable of this as town, I saw it in Duel. Hop off your tunnel train for a minute and realize I want something more alignment indicative out of you than this attack on rayn. Called Cora out. How is he allowed to tell Cora to do something other than go after me when he hasn't done shit other than an scummy case? Look at the bolded/red sentence above, in particular. He's giving his full reasoning but he's doing it BEGRUDGINGLY. In what game do we begrudgingly give scum reads? That's pretty scummy to me on its own. Not demonstrating a town mindset IMO. The reads themselves are pretty meh. The only possible original thought I see is his stance on Oats but that's not a difficult thing to do given how easy of a target I feel Oats has made himself. Finally, resignation: On March 27 2013 11:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nobody is going to vote OO/Oats/Smurf either way whatever i say. And Grack has not dona anythig useful. I would be okay switching into one of those three or Nisani/prplhz, but nobody is going to listen to me anyways so what the hell. Better to trust people i trust are town then. 5, count them, five possible targets for today's lynch. That's a whole lot of suspicion for so little build-up. "Let's just lynch anyone!" How about no. Not gonna do pretty formatting but I really don't like this post. I won't do pretty formatting because I'm on my phone, but there's a few things: - "the seed was planted" etc - there's no reason to include this in a town case, but scum want to establish "hey guys I'm being consistent". Makes the case implicitly about "I'm town and making this case on my scumread" as much as about actually persuading us his read is scum. - one of his key arguments is "he has bad reads / scum reads on people who everyone thinks is town." We all know this is a terrible argument, since what really matters isn't who the reads are on, but whether the reasoning for those reads demonstrates a town mindset. But saying "look who he thought was scum everyone disagrees with him so he must be the scum" makes sense as a scum case, it attracts the attention of those people and makes the case easier to sheep. - I also don't really agree with the "begrudging" part, I think when a townie feels hectored he can be plenty begrudging but scum would hide it. But that's less of a reason this case is scummy, and more just a reason I disagree with it.
|
On March 30 2013 08:47 marvellosity wrote:
why not? what kind of silly question is this?
What's the point of defending me in case i am a) town, b)mafia?
You must have thought about it because s&b was your scumread before his claim.
|
On March 30 2013 08:52 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 08:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 30 2013 08:47 marvellosity wrote:
why not? what kind of silly question is this? What's the point of defending me in case i am a) town, b)mafia? You must have thought about it because s&b was your scumread before his claim. scum or town defend people all the time. ggnore
My point is that as you have no idea about me, since i have not played with any of you people before (except for Palmar & prplhz, and that was 1,5 years ago), there is no reason for s&b to try to gain town credit this way.
- If i am mafia with him, it would be more beneficial for us to talk about OO's case and have me post those things as they are spot on. Me gaining town-credit from OO case against me is far more better than s&b doing it.
- If i am town why not let me & OO fight each other and shit up the thread?
- If i am town and OO is mafia this is ridiculous from the beginning.
Don't just give up please. At least try ffs.
|
On March 30 2013 09:04 ObviousOne wrote:
If I take the SNB claim at face value and corroborate it with his stuff after day post he is town.
Rayn why did you have a TOWN read on SNB during day 1? You said "leaning town" so now I want to hear why you did not find him scummy yesterday. Full disclosure, go.
I just posted two posts directed to marv where i explain it. :D
|
On March 30 2013 09:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 09:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 30 2013 09:04 ObviousOne wrote:
If I take the SNB claim at face value and corroborate it with his stuff after day post he is town.
Rayn why did you have a TOWN read on SNB during day 1? You said "leaning town" so now I want to hear why you did not find him scummy yesterday. Full disclosure, go. I just posted two posts directed to marv where i explain it. :D So the sole reason for your town read was because he defended you? Isn't that, in itself, enough scum motivation for a scum to defend a townie (he gets town reads from it)? And like marv said, scum defend townies from other townies all the time.
No it's not if you can instead cause a shitfest in thread like what was about to come between me and Cora on D1, i was really mad at him at some point. And the fact that s&b can't possibly know how experienced i am as a player - i could fuck something up and get myself mislynched.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
