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Vivax
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tryhard mode engaged | ||
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I realize some of this stuff might have already been said I hoped this game would be different, less conversation pulling you into an endless circle of impulsive-responsive answers to the last questions, burying information faster and faster while your intention to go back and dig something up correlates negatively with the amount of new, possibly pointless questions that arise on the newest pages. Seems like we're back to what I've seen in most of the latter games and I'd like if we could change that thanks. Consolidate your posts, don't nitpick. Put huge quotes in spoilers. This for example is not ok: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 16:18 DarthPunk wrote: You say that but in my last game with him he rage quit because everyone else was too stupid 0_o I have the objective to make lurkers post initially, and make roleplayers and trolls play normally. To do so I like to threaten with lynches. But I mostly got called scummy for doing this when it's something that makes sense. Policies are good, cause no one wants to lynch coinflips. But if you vote early for multiple coinflips, you will see which people are more eager to go with specific coinflips, and you will see how these coinflips react to the prospective of a lynch. Force people to play in a way that is useful on D1, so they will have to keep that up throughout the game if it's shown they are able to. That is all on general gameplay I wanted to say. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ I snipped some stuff out from this post, but I want to say I already like goodkarma since he promotes good targets. I'll have to disagree with one thing though: Lurker lynches don't suck (in absence of really strong cases). With this attitude, you encourage D1 lurking. Change your mind before deadline if it need be, but lurker lynching has to be a visible threat for those during the day. The other stuff I agree with, leave setup speculation to D2 possibly. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 16:17 goodkarma wrote: Regarding lurker lynches: Town lurkers seem to be semi-prevalent in these bigger games, and as such imho there will be better people to lynch day one. Leave lurkers to vigis if need be. And as for "randomized lynching," we should be able to get some decent scumreads day one. Sure, day one can be challenging, but it's not impossible to get a solid scum lynch the first day. So again, no thanks. Regarding Setup Speculation: Until such a time we find this game has heavily themed aspects, I highly recommend we don't waste time on setup speculation and focus on finding scum. So far, I like Wade's contributions. He brings up good points regarding peashooter (leaning scum) and geript, although when comparing Wade's points to sciberbia's: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 17:23 sciberbia wrote: I've got some stuff to say about geript The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. First point is about phrasing. I agree that it's strange that geript doesn't simply go for Zarepath without telling us about his awesome RNG stuff and waiting for us to jump on it (as if one ever would), it feels to me like he knows himself how useless it is and just saw other people doing it and getting away with it. I don't think it's a matter of phrasing though. I feel like scib's points aren't very aggravating. I'm used to scum getting nervous when called out, not leaving the thread. Then there's this weird connection case that reads too much into this hipster RNG-thing and doesn't really tell us anything useful about geript or Zare. In summary, I agree with sciberbia's target as being a subject to scrutiny, but not with most of sciberbia's arguments. Go read LX first if you want a meta read on geript cause he got mislynched there for some strange play (I think he's rather new here, it's ok) Sciberbia: Then there's the interaction between VE and sciberbia which left me slightly scummish on sciberbia for the reasons VE pointed out, mainly. I'll wait to see how he keeps performing. In the last mafia game with him in team he usually made huge posts with really good reads and posted very few, but accurately. He is a guy who knows how to position himself read-wise to look good while sounding good. Sandro: I don't like this post. Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is. Keep up the good work gents. Greymist: Quick in believing Wade would kill Peashooter over such a thing. Putting the thought out there is good play at early stage. Seems to not support the pressure. | ||
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He be lurkin' | ||
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I'll still throw my 2¢ in. My read on sandro hasn't changed but cosmicomics strange entrance into the thread in connection with sandro is definitely worth a closer look. Will post in detail when i'm at my comp around 7 -8 pm cet. I endorse a tps wagon though and oppose both zarepath and gk as lynch choices. Sciberbia looks better, ve's plan was bad and no one should talk about applying to a circle, they come naturally. That said, i agree with most of what bh says and share his tps and gk reads. I'll give more steam to the wagon of justice in the meantime. ##vote thepeashooter | ||
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Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. | ||
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A NEW CHALLENGER IS APPROACHING ## Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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For a start, Look at cosmicomics entrance into the thread and wonder: Would this be the first question I make as town? Look at Sandro's town meta: Did he ever come into the game spitting out reads and not-reads without explanation and fucking off? Look at DoYouHas: 1. His posts read to me like he's trying to tell a story, not like he's actively trying to figure the game out, subjective feeling. 2. He was too agreeable towards the SAST thingy from the start. It's fluff and should be treated like fluff. | ||
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The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Sandroba I wrote about him here cosmicomics Let's put ourselves into the shoes of a townie who didn't post anything yet at a later point in D1. You don't know who's innocent, you don't know who's guilty, so you will usually say "I find this dude suspicious cause of x and I agree with y cause of bsbsbsbsbs" after having a read of everything, maybe throw in a few questions to see who agrees with you on something or why someone did a certain thing. I can't remember the last time I popped into the thread asking a question about a dude I don't know the alignment of, and nitpicking while doing so. Look at the question in question. It's not constructed to get a reasonable answer for the purposes of this game. It's constructed in a way that I have to answer with a version of town sandro I have in my head. Maybe town sandro does x and y and z, shortly, it's constructed in a way that it may lead me to say tons of stupid things if I answered it. Thanks to another player I value for his support, he answered this question for me by providing a town sandro filter. But that's not the worst about this question. As I said, I consider this to be nitpicking. I wrote Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless And this dude picks a cherry and ignores everything I actually said about why sandro doesn't look like town without commenting on the points I made. He doesn't give his own opinion of sandro and doesn't agree on at least a bit of it, cause he should. What I said is true. In the next post, he twists my words: On March 17 2013 08:33 cosmicomics wrote: To clarify, my question is, "what is sandroba like here that you find his playstyle distinct from his other town games?" Either Vivax is leaning red because sandroba's reads differ from his, which is a very poor reason to think someone is scum, especially D1, or he is leaning red because sandroba's playstyle is somehow different, which doesn't make sense because sandroba has a unique scumhunting style that can sometimes make "quick conclusions" and obtain "townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless" that 'normal scumhunting' may not. This question is specifically directed at Vivax. Again, sandro's reads did differ from mine. But cosmicomics cherrypicks again, since not only was my point that sandro's reads were strange cause they differed from mine, but they were strange cause he gave them without reasoning and they didn't seem to make sense to me. And I said it in the post. Then he proceeds to defend sandroba based on some unique scumhunting style. I saw sandro being wrong and right often enough to not give him an air of legend allowing him to give reads without explanation and fucking off. Cosmicomics seems to be idealizing a guy he shouldn't have a read on this early in the game. After this he makes a quick minicase regarding an inconsistency, with no conclusion as to why DarthPunk is scum, drops his vote and doesn't inquire anything further regarding DP. On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote: You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly? ##Vote: DarthPunk This is the guy I want to lynch the most today. It looks a lot like he's posting with an agenda. ##Unvote ##Vote cosmicomics | ||
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We currently have the same objectives for lynch I support either of the three candidates so we should probably pick the best out of them. I feel like DYH has committed himself to posting that way and should not be prioritized. If he stops contributing we will notice and if he keeps it up we only gain more information about him so I think sandro and cosmicomics have higher priority. Given cosmicomics strange defense by offense I think these two are possibly scumbuddies, more people might be opposed to lynching sandro cause he's considered (grrr...) a vet so maybe we should agree on cosmic? Can you give your insight on what I wrote about him? | ||
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On March 18 2013 01:50 GreYMisT wrote: I am not willing to lynch sandroba today. The only evidence people are at all able to present regarding him is that he has been inactive. This doesn't cut it when we have real discussion happening and some real targets. Everyone voting sandroba needs to tell us why they prefer him over people who we actually have cases against. This is simply not true (and I am sure you read my post), the evidence is that he starts the game much more differently than in his town games. In his town games he starts with questions, says what he finds suspicious or townie, but most importantly, he gives reasons. Reasons, grey, that's the bsbsbsbs after saying something. On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is. Keep up the good work gents. Two townreads. No reasoning. Neutral statement about BH. Meaningless statement about VE. TPS leaning town for his setup speculation. On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote: Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. I think it was Ryu(?) who pointed out that this post is strange. It's actually hard to tell if Sandro is trolling or serious but cause of this previously: On March 16 2013 22:30 sandroba wrote: Update: Greymist is suspicious. I'd say he was serious. No explaining behind why Greymist is suspicious for this: While I also think that what he is doing atm is very useless, Why do you think it is worth killing for? I actually agree that Greymist's comment was off (implying BH would kill TPS immediately for the setup speculation, but thinking about it, it sure looked like it), however I don't think it's indicative of alignment at all, it's just that, sounding strange. No particular agenda, rather asking BH in a weird way if he would lynch TPS for that. On March 16 2013 22:40 GreYMisT wrote: Do you disagree with the point that I made? On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote: Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. So well, greymist, I don't actually get at all why you feel the need to defend sandro when he attacked you in such a way that doesn't seem genuine to me. Ryu pointed it out in a good way. It looks like sandro was just acting, and you just not caring. | ||
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Funny that my whole case isn't about activity isn't it? I want to lynch cosmicomics first anyway. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Maybe to get me to respond you should make up another fake case on me and force me to defend myself. No excuses here, but of the people I know in this game, very few have posted thus far so I can't read much into meta, and of the people I don't it's mostly speculative bullshit and others jumping down their throats based on a very early read. I'd rather make an educated case than a useless early game read/case that can get dumped on super quickly just to seem towny in your eyes, Zare. This point of view I find pro-town. It's much more townie and transparent than what cosmicomics did with his weak, disinterested case that only helps him to look like he's scumhunting. WoS is being honest and fearless. WoS is rather new here and I saw his performance as town in LX, it isn't wise to judge him by contribution when he's not very experienced. | ||
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I think it's a stupid reason to lynch me although I would probably think something similar in your position. But if you do it, won't be my fault you lose something valuable. | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:41 kitaman27 wrote: You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. Regarding this: I wanted to know if the guy is yamato cause if he is, I'd give him a townread (Feeling sure he was at that moment). If you go look, my read on him changed after his two big, abrasive posts (go look them up with the # at my post), where I assumed he was yamato cause yamato has an extensive work schedule and posts like that towards people who accuse him often. Kita, can you look at my cases regarding sandro, cosmic and DYH before jumping to conclusions and tell me what you agree and disagree with? | ||
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On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out, gk isnt either i think. Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. To all the silly people who think this was a slip (as in, referencing to him as yamato without reason). Should have gone back to this post before starting to explain :| Lynch cosmicomics, kill scum. | ||
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Vigis should take care of him at night. We should find a common lynch target, as pointed out here. Do you agree that Sandro's lynch should be delayed? Could you have a look at cosmic and DYH? On March 18 2013 01:52 Vivax wrote: @ Glurio, trance, Goodkarma We currently have the same objectives for lynch I support either of the three candidates so we should probably pick the best out of them. I feel like DYH has committed himself to posting that way and should not be prioritized. If he stops contributing we will notice and if he keeps it up we only gain more information about him so I think sandro and cosmicomics have higher priority. Given cosmicomics strange defense by offense I think these two are possibly scumbuddies, more people might be opposed to lynching sandro cause he's considered (grrr...) a vet so maybe we should agree on cosmic? Can you give your insight on what I wrote about him? Assuming we delay sandro, do you feel more like cosmic is scum or DYH? | ||
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Hopeless do you think a scum Zarepath would dare to oppose VE's super scumhunting team idea like that? I've been trying to get a read on the dude and I don't get the feeling he's scum. He posts a lot, explains his thoughts, looks spontaneous, series of addenda (that's the plural for addendum), and overall seems to make sense. He doesn't play aggressively at all, but I don't think that is relevant for him. As counter-example I see cosmicomics who replies to a question about DP with a short argument and a quick vote and leaves after asking me scummy questions. I see that as a way to look like he's scumhunting, has a target, a few arguments but doesn't try to do anything else or find out if it's the right target. Then, could you and Wiggles give me an impression of DYH? I suspect the dude is scum. If you're at it and want to, comment on sandro and cosmicomics but doesn't look like they will be lynched today | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I like Vivax lynch too. Nothing he's said has made me feel townie on him. I'ma go filter him again. Kita why you hatin on GM? I think he's fine for now, and I certainly don't like him for lynch today. Where's the beef? Given that most of the people I find suspicious try to hop onto DP I don't trust the bandwagon. | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:23 RyuSuzaku wrote: I've just finished reading what I missed while I was gone. If sandroba is indeed inactive because of drinking or whatever, I don't think he's a good lynch at all. However, I think greymist is a great choice for lynch today. I so far am not at all convinced that GK or DP or any of the other current names being thrown around are scummier than greymist. I think our best chance to lynch scum today is this guy. There are several major reasons; hopefully my quoting will help here. 1. Greymist excuses his lurking by saying that he was "setting a trap." I seriously doubt there was any sort of trap or intention behind the lurking, seeing as his entry post into the thread mentioned how busy he was. 2. When he was around, greymist didn't do anything other than respond to the host. Surely as a townie, if you know you are going to only be active for certain time periods, you will put effort into pushing your reads, or at least trying to make them. Lurking away your active periods sounds pretty antitown. I know at least for me personally, I do my best to read and post in order to solidify my reads during my active periods. 3. Greymist's posts come off as opportunistic. He accuses goodkarma of attacking "easy targets", yet he himself is guilty of attacking GK, someone I would classify as an easy target. GK also chose DarthPunk and sandroba as two of his four targets, both of which I would firmly classify as "not easy to lynch." GK gave fairly decent reasons for both, and those reasons are understandable from a GK-town perspective. For one, he acknowledges the differences in DP's play between this game and others in which he has played; this type of observation is characteristically rare for mafia players. The fact that greymist is not able to see these reasons is indicative of him being scum. 4. Greymist seems to be overly aware both of his own image and what the town in general thinks. There are a lot of questions to the effect of "what do people think of ____?" and also moments where he calls out players (knowingly) for things he himself is doing. To this end, I give you the following: Note that his response to GK is nothing more than OMGUS. I seriously doubt greymist was setting a trap, given that he himself said how busy he was. He also does exactly the same thing he accuses GK of doing. GK, to me, simply seemed to be stating his reads and his rationale. His rationale appears to be backed up by actual effort-from my independent efforts, I can confirm that much of what he wrote about these players' metas is, on the whole, true. On the other hand, greymist has put no such effort into verifying GK's assertions, nor does he do anything but dismiss GK's reads. In addition, he calls out GK for listing reads so he can allegedly later swap them, yet he basically does the same here: and here: and here: every time greymist posts a read, it's with very minimal effort-not something I would expect a townie to put forth. In addition, his posts are very opportunistic. He only does things under pressure, whether it be direct or indirect. He only attacked GK under the obvious pressure of a vote. Sandro had already claimed suspicion of greymist, but greymist brushed it off-it was only when others agreed with sandro did greymist take the opportunity to attack GK. When kita requested an opinion of greymist on vivax, he did nothing more than regurgitate kita's suspicions and dig up superficialities in how vivax responded. I'm not going to mention why I find greymist to be incredibly suspicious after this last post, since I expect anyone reading thoroughly to be able to discern why. ##vote greymist I'm with this guy ^ He knows what's up. Not to mention the way greymist handled my sandro case (saying activity doesn't matter when my case isn't about activity) and the points previously mentioned by Ryu. I think scum is trying to push a DP wagon. Let's go for Grey, sandro, cosmic or DYH instead.For justice. | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote: So he wants to lynch Grey, sandro, cosmic or DYH, but thinks SCUM are pushing the DP wagon. Presently on the DP wagon: layabout, VE, WoS, glurio. Soooo....several of those things are not like the others.... Not everyone who is on the wagon is scum, and not everyone voted in the voting thread but said they want to lynch him here, like cosmicomics. You should know my reads by now. | ||
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On March 18 2013 07:05 layabout wrote: Not seeing GM as scum, he seems to be scumhunting just fine, get on Darth. This is pretty generic if you want to defend him why don't you go into detail? People posted extensive cases against your and VE's oneliners, there might be a reason why they are convincing no? If you are really interested into defending him, what's holding you back? Why think DP is scum but GM shouldn't be another fine choice? Without debating it? | ||
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I find pretty much everyone scummy you do, but GM is the only working alternative now. We need to draw people to our wagon of rightfulness. | ||
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To every townie that is voting DarthPunk or someone else: Please help in lynching Greymist. | ||
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On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote: Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? I tried to actually see if sciberbia got something wrong here, but upon checking it's true. Zarepath said that he found DP's entrance post scummy later on, but expressed doubts towards thinking he's scum later (30 minutes) for an early vote. I agree that this is inconsistent. Upon rereading Zarepath I actually realized my read might be wrong. I noticed another inconsistency: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote: I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1. I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. TPS was basically one of the first setup speculators but he somehow preferred geript over him as scumread and never tried to pressure or interact with TPS (despite Wade being loud and hammering him, so he must have seen that going on in the thread). I'm sold on hopping on the zarepath bandwagon, alternatively. | ||
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@ WoS + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 13:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright reading through zare's filter his lack of commitment and hardcore line of questioning strikes me as the differences between his play here and in NMM 37, the only game in which I have played with him. He makes an early weak suspicion case against me and does not follow up on it whatsoever, completely ignoring the fact that he drew suspicion on me whatsoever despite me responding to him. His activity does go down from its usual on weekends that is true, but even with that excuse his play seems much weaker than the town play I'm used to seeing from zare. Usually much stronger cases and less sheeping. My meta reads are overall fairly weak thus far into my mafia career though so I'm not yet comfortable lynching zare based on that evidence. I'm inclined to agree with geript's thoughts of 'waiting it out' to see if his play improves since GM seems to be the stronger choice for today. Zare wouldn't mind a response to MY response to your earlier suspicion against me. As for GM, he holds something in common with zare, in that he also brings up suspicion against me, calls me scummier than DarthPunk, doesn't back it up, and then ignores me completely. His AHA! post reeks of bad towny play (stupid gambit is stupid), but isn't Grey supposed to be a mafia veteran? That kind of 'trap' is something that zare tried to spring on the rest of the town AS a townie in NMM 37 but it only ended up muddling up the whole thread for that day and accomplishing nothing. Greymist's trap seems like an easy way to hide behind the fact that he couldn't be assed to contribute in a positive way and to jump on the first person to call him out for being gone (whether for legit reasons or not) as others have pointed out. It's nice that other people seem to think DP isn't scummy anymore btw, (and the flailing around once under heavy suspicion seems more like a towny think to do than scum) so he's null for me right now. I still don't lke the stance on lurkers despite how he described it. Unvote: DarthPunk Vote GreYMisT I would like to know why you thought it's nice that other people didn't think DP was scummy anymore when you said you could get behind his lynch earlier based on VE's case. This doesn't make any sense. Have I actually been wrong about you guys? + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Also I believe I promised I'd give my thoughts on Vivax/TPS: Vivax's defense of me notwithstanding, I'm not so sure this was a slip. Meta reads are going to be something I will not be very good at until I play quite a few more games with all of you guys, so I can't look back at Yamato and try to find out if Vivax's claim is legitimate. I'm not sure why he would be so confident as to flat out call him Yamato in one sentence and the back off a little saying 'I think' in another, it's a very odd way of doing it rather than flat out asking 'Are you Yamato' or simply saying 'I think TPS is Yamato.' Either way the 'slip' itself seems null, as is Vivax's defense on me; his points ring true (and I'm happy people actually notice me for once) but obviously there are both scum and town motivations for doing what he did. As for TPS, I'm having a hard time because I actually enjoyed his setup speculation (even though I know that's something that is generally frowned upon) and his early pressure on Coag is something that I would have gotten behind if I weren't fucking terrified of having the wrath of every vet in existence on top of me for 'not knowing how Coag usually plays.' I said it in an earlier post, Coag doesn't look great to me, but I'll trust the townies who seem to know him. Now TPS's pressure in my eyes really depends on whether he is a smurf or not imo. If he is, I would think that he would know exactly how Coag usually plays and so this would seem like an agenda to me. If he's not, he is legitimately pressuring and pushing a read on a player who looked (at least up until he started posting more frequently and usefully) scummy. So null on TPS for now until the smurf idea is resolved. I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle; call that scummy if you wish but having never seen one in a game before I have no idea of their risks or benefits and it just seems manipulative to me. Vote: Darthpunk | ||
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I think you two are just townies smashing your heads in I'm currently preparing a post to analyze the D1 votes and the Greymist bandwagons. If you were so nice to take a look at these guys who stuck out to me beforehand : RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, zarepath Will post my reasoning soon for why I think some of them have a shot at being scum. | ||
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While looking for information for my case, I noticed this. On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. I think the bolded part is super scummy and I see him being scum with GK cause of this. It shows how he defends both and then says he has nothing to add regarding GK, but afterwards he mentions several points that he finds scummy. How does this make sense? If he truly thought he had nothing to add he would simply not do it. But instead he gives a weak reason to not vote for him and then mentions things that are scummy to not look like he's defending him. | ||
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On March 18 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: VOTE COUNT! ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (1): Coagulation (0): GreYMisT (12): testsubject893 (0): Sandroba (0): zarepath (6): DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm cosmicomics (0): DarthPunk (3): Vivax (0):: VisceraEyes (0): Voting is compulsory I think those who switched from DP to GM last are most worth a look: Zare and cosmic. So first of all, let me start with my reasoning as to why I think that most if not all of scum is on the GM bandwagon. To do so, we have to exclude that scum were on the other two wagons. Let's start with DP (who I have as townread currently) I think the DP wagon has two explanations: Either DP is scum and zare and cosmic set themselves up to bus him only to switch later. Or they thought that his wagon would gain steam and then saw that it didn't work, deciding to switch to GM (possibly to save zarepath). To check which one applies, I'd have to see how Zare + cosmic vote for DP and then switch to GM. Do they push the lynches? Are they consistent with their reads? Are the reasons good? That said, I'll leave it to them to justify it. After rereading Zarepath I'm confident he's scum anyway, as for cosmic, you should know my opinion on him since early. I think the zarepath wagon was the right wagon to go, and am assuming all on that one were townies. Sciberbia hit like a swiss knife again. So we are left with the GM wagon. Now let me point out the switches coupled with my former reasoning. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ZAREPATH The timing of this post + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote: Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far. Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum. The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive. I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him. I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk. ##Vote: DarthPunk was right after DP got his ass gunned by VE. So zarepath should have felt that a wagon was coming and set himself up for it, and, coupled with the inconsistency sciberbia pointed out where zare asked that question about DP's early vote being unlikely for scum this doesn't look good for zare who suddenly got a scumread on the guy who just defended himself quite effectively, in my opinion. As always, zarepath seems to be in a hurry, so he drops a couple of reasons to vote for him. I disagree with some reasons he mentions but they're not the main point of this case. Does he push the case? No he doesn't. What we also notice is the timing of his vote. He cast his vote on DP after Ryu's convincing case on Grey. Time difference: On March 18 2013 04:23 RyuSuzaku wrote: ##vote greymist On March 18 2013 09:26 zarepath wrote: ##Vote: DarthPunk Then, when Grey had 8 votes on him already, he comes in with that "read" on him after asking him a question On March 18 2013 11:55 zarepath wrote: GreYMist, whatever happened to this? You haven't mentioned me once since. On March 18 2013 12:12 zarepath wrote: I just switched to GreYMisT based mostly off of a look through his filter and the timing of his chiming in on other people who are already being suspected by others, or how almost everyone he mentions looks maybe scummy but he's not sure. (I recognize I am also kind of guilty of that last point, but I personally know I'm not scum, so there's that.) Unvote: DarthPunk Vote: GreYMisT Not only did Ryu post a pretty strong case against Grey, which was the main reason so many people switched to him, and Zare doesn't refer to it at all, but he even thought DP was a better choice when Ryu posted the case before Zare voted DP. Does this look like a guy who's trying to figure the game out? Who pushes his lynches? Who explains his reads? Frankly I don't know what the reason is for why he votes Greymist, but apparently this guy doesn't have any real scumreads, cause when called out by sciberbia for his inconsistency, he says this: On March 18 2013 12:23 zarepath wrote: This is a good point. It wasn't a soft defense so much as something that needed to be considered and answered if you were to make a case on him. He'd been on my radar at the time. Tonight, when I started trying to catch up, I saw DP's defenses which seemed really OMGUSy and a total lack of pro-town argument (other than prevent his own mislynch), and figured it was a good vote -- for some reaosn I thought the lynch deadline was going to be quite soon, and was actually worried that I'd already missed it when I came into the thread and just tried to get a vote down asaply. Now I'm on greymist because I think it's coming down between me and him, and I don't like his pattern of seeding suspicion onto players and then acting unsure, or letting others do the work. Did you see DP being stubborn about his scumreads although under heavy pressure? Or Greymist saying he wants GK lynched while going down? This is what townies behave (Yes I think DP is town). Scumreads over everything, real patriots of their hometown. Zarepath instead gives weak reasoning for switching votes, and his reads look fake. He doesn't have the ambition of a townie to get the scum lynched, he says Greymist is scummy but at the same time says he wants to vote for him to save his own hide. If you think the first you don't argue with the latter. Verdict 1: Zarepath is scum. Let's go back to the defence post: This dude defended both TPS and GK, who all have done scummy things according to most of this town, yet this guy disagrees with a lynch on them, says he has nothing to add, then lists things he finds scummy about them. Instinctive: We assume they are his scumbuddies, so we dig a little there, too, and we also see they were early on the GM wagon, like predicted at the start of this post. I'm right in between them (curse me). Scumlarm rings. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ COSMICOMICS Most of the stuff I found suspicious about Cosmic still applies. So I'll just stick to the newer stuff especially related to the GM bandwagon, my old one is here So first, let's bring up what he does exactly like zarepath, he tries to get the DP bandwagon rolling, and later switches to Grey even though he voted DP after Ryu's case. (His first post regarding DP included a vote here but not in the voting thread, so he did vote after Ryu's case effectively). On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote: You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly? ##Vote: DarthPunk On March 18 2013 07:41 cosmicomics wrote: Sunday is busy day. Still catching up but addressing first things first. DarthPunk is caught lying and is trying to backpedal. My post specifically mentioned how geript had already stopped pursuing RNG material. Why would a town pressure vote to stop someone's "terrible idea" if they already stopped doing it in the very post they quoted? There was a slight possibility that DarthPunk was also trying to shut down geript's tarot card speculation, but in this post it is clear that it was not what he was doing. He himself admits that it was pressure to stop RNG. So there is absolutely no town reason why he would do this to geript. The only reason is to misinterpret geript as doing "terrible idea/plans", and try to mislynch him off that. ##Vote: DarthPunk On March 18 2013 04:23 RyuSuzaku wrote: ##vote greymist On March 18 2013 07:42 cosmicomics wrote: Vote: DarthPunk As we see, cosmicomics reasons for voting DP were his pressure vote on geript and how it was a lie cause he stopped the RNG stuff. I think this is a terrible point to bring against someone being mafia and only represents cosmicomics trying to use something that looks like an inconsistency to jump on and push the DP wagon. Early game pressure votes when people talk about the hipsteRNG are perfectly fine in my opinion and I had my vote on kita for a long time even after he delurked right after it, that's inconsistent too but it doesn't make me scum. I mainly want to show the mafia agenda behind the switch from DP to Grey, cause I think mafia tried to save zarepath's ass with the switch from DP to Grey later. On March 18 2013 08:20 cosmicomics wrote: goodkarma Upon a personal reading of his filter alone, he doesn't seem that bad. I see consistency in the evolution of his reads (everything comes from somewhere). I also see him trying to use meta (on GreYMisT and sandroba) in what I think is a sensible way. The initial suspicion on him before he made his big post made sense, but was cleared up as his "playstyle". GreYMisT's case seems to be "goodkarma can't make a good case he is scum", which isn't sound because "good case" is pretty subjective, and townies can fail to make "good cases" all the time. I'm a slow reader so I might have missed other key points but I don't think he is a good lynch. zarepath Ehh ... I'm leaning newbie town player trying to adapt to the major leagues. While more experienced players may know that posts such as "I'm town" are jokes to be ignored for real content, a newer player may not. His questioning of my initial case on DarthPunk seems like a very difficult one to fake from a scum perspective, as it exploits word definition. I would give him a chance to get adjusted first. Vivax Doesn't quite understand how I play but is putting in what seems to be genuine effort for now, especially with his efforts to try to focus attention on me. If there is anything specific you want to point out I can look at it, because I like to spent my time (at least for D1) reading at a larger scale. Here we see something that only reinforces my connection case: Zarepath defended TPS and GK. Cosmicomics defends Zarepath and GK and shows really weird behaviour. He thinks I'm showing genuine efforts by directing the attention towards him. I don't know about you but when I'm town I don't like people calling me scum and forcing me to defend myself. But well, what matters is his defense of these two guys. Then cosmic asks DP these two questions: On March 18 2013 10:07 cosmicomics wrote: So you admit that you yourself (innocently) misinterpreted geript's posts, and I'm scummy for thinking that you misinterpreted him? Upon which DP reacts with this: On March 18 2013 10:10 DarthPunk wrote: NO you are scummy for sheeping a bad case on me which relied on turning an obvious pressure vote in this very first hour of the game into something more. And then trying to lynch me for it. When it was plain for all to see it was a start of the game pressure vote and nothing more. DESPITE me being wrong about the tarot thing. On March 18 2013 10:21 cosmicomics wrote: Yea I don't think DarthPunk is the lynch anymore. Just stubborn, but in a consistent townie way. Upon review VE's case does look pretty bad. ##Unvote: DarthPunk I'll be looking into the alternatives to decide. On March 18 2013 10:34 cosmicomics wrote: Upon review I am fine with lynching either GreYMisT or zarepath (his latest post really throws me off). Gonna go with GreYMisT because zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum. ##Vote: GreYMisT Judge these reasons to favour Greymist by yourself. I think cosmicomics is scummy since early, so just go read my case GOODKARMA Then obviously, there's GK and TPS. I think these two dudes are scum, too if I just look at how Zare and cosmic handled them. I currently don't know who the fifth scum might be, but I kinda ruled out Ryu for this question from GK On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu: Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style? I'll post more later and possibly figure out the fifth one, writing this post was pretty tiring and took me ages :3 | ||
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Also, give me medic protection pls I'll eat my hat if they don't shoot me tonight. | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:31 ThePeashooter wrote: There is no point in naming who you think all 5 mafia are when we can only kill one person a day. If you are right they are all on guard now. That was a bit stupid. The only reason you might want to do that is if you think you are very likely to die during this night phase and since half the people thought we were scum buddies at some point yesterday you aren't too likely to be on their list of targets. Can you find an example please? I remember lots of people thinking you were scum "on your own", but didn't see anyone make the connection like I did. Also it's fine if I die N1. Just shows how well I played lol. | ||
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Yawn. Are you yamato anyway? | ||
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Please give your stance on the Zarepath lynch now. | ||
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On March 19 2013 02:36 ThePeashooter wrote: Sorry, I realize you are from Italy and English might not be your native language. I don't in the remotest sense think that there is even the slightest possibility of you dying tonight. There is literally no reason to kill you. My point was that posting 5 suspects is pointless when you can only feasibly kill one of them a day. The only exception to that would of been if you thought you were in imminent danger of dying during this night cycle, which as I pointed out is incredibly unlikely. I thought GM was scummy and wanted to let it play out which is why I never said anything earlier in the day. When I saw the choices between him and Zarepath I chose GM. I had GM as scummy in my notes and I felt he only got worse since I had updated them. My notes indicate that I thought Zarepath was leaning town but upon rereading his posts I found that I thought he was more scummy than I initially thought with his first few posts. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote: In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: As an addendum to my final paragraph, that is why I find Peashooter's opening content to be pretty scummy. Honestly, any player could have gone through and guessed at roles based on the titles (and probably did; I did as I skimmed them), but I think it's hardly worth talking about right now. I echo Wave Fell's sentiments here about Peashooter's likely scumminess. Now that I think about it, VE's talk about tarot cards seems especially useless. Another addendum to Coagulation's instant role claim : the very first thing he did after that was apply to the SAST, which is going to look pro-town without actually being pro-town. An addendum to my problems with the SAST: I am not certain as to whether or not VE seriously thought people would like his SAST idea. And one final thought: sciberbia was quick to point out that VE's tarot cards and Peashooter's speculation aren't that scummy (but I disagree and say they are more scummy than anything else so far, btw), and VE makes a good point in response: So in the end, I currently have my eyes on Coagulation, Peashooter, VE, and sciberbia. I will take a more serious look at geript later. And with those reactions, I am now off for the afternoon to help somebody move. On March 17 2013 04:54 zarepath wrote: This opening post seems kind of scummy to me. It begins with setup speculation that seems based in ignorance and not in a desire to hunt scum, continues to say that two players are consistent with their meta and he's not sure if he likes that or not, he decides he doesn't like SAST but then turns that into speculation as to a 3rd party wincon (????). Also notice the line thrown in the middle: It's an excuse for not hunting scum while saying to trust him, he's hunting scum. I would like to see more input from WoS on who he is suspicious of, and why. He just keeps bitching about set up speculation and SAST neither ideas were worth more than a post or two of speculation but over 24 hours into the game he still focuses on this and contributes nothing else of value. It's like he META'd how talking about the set up too much is scummy so he chose to talk about people talking about the set up. Call me an egotistic psychology major but the language used here just feels unnatural. Good, did you feel the arguments in my case were not enough to convince you or is there a particular reason you brought your own reasons? How do you feel about my other reads? | ||
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On March 19 2013 02:49 ThePeashooter wrote: I don't actually remember reading your case and I just chose to read Zarepath myself and post what I thought. I just got home a little while ago and was not really in a place where I could post and analyze for an hour last night. On March 19 2013 01:31 ThePeashooter wrote: There is no point in naming who you think all 5 mafia are when we can only kill one person a day. If you are right they are all on guard now. That was a bit stupid. The only reason you might want to do that is if you think you are very likely to die during this night phase and since half the people thought we were scum buddies at some point yesterday you aren't too likely to be on their list of targets. I don't understand, you claim to not have read my case but speak of 5 people I named as scum. How does that make sense if you didn't read it? Don't be shy, what do you think of GK, cosmic and glurio? | ||
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I would also like to know why you seemed sure I would be NKd. You'd think I would be NKd if I mentioned good reads no? If I mention 5 townies as guys I want to lynch tomorrow, how does that make me a target for NK? You said you didn't even read my case properly yet you seem sure it would be enough to get me killed tonight. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 01:52 ThePeashooter wrote: ...Did you even read anything I wrote? Also how is it that no one has any capacity to reread something to remember anything that hasn't happened in the last 5 minutes? But yeah, you are definitely a likely kill for tonight. | ||
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I would also like to know why you seemed sure I would be NKd. You'd think I would be NKd if I mentioned good reads no? If I mention 5 townies as guys I want to lynch tomorrow, how does that make me a target for NK? As in, one that mentions 5 townies wouldn't get NKd, but PeaShooter seems sure that I will get NKd without even having properly read my case apparently. | ||
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Don't understand why he's so hostile towards me though. Anyway, I'm off to training for 2-3 hours so you have plenty of time to give some other reads. | ||
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On March 19 2013 06:27 sciberbia wrote: I liked Vivax's analysis for the mostpart. Several of his conclusions line up with mine. I agree that the people that joined the GreyMist wagon very late are not as concerning as the people that joined it in the middle. Of course this is predicated on the fact that zarepath is scum, which may or may not be true. Also, I was very happy to see Keirathi is replacing in. I'm sure Ace and Mocsta are cool too, although I have never played with them before. Welcome all. You are awesome <3. Hope some protective role thinks about you tonight, you have the stuff to win the game for town. Anyway, I think the fact that people who join in late are less suspicious is general, cause it's independent from others being scum. Scum will always look better on another wagon no matter on who it is as long as it isn't the townie being mislynched. Best is when scum sits on other scum while a townie gets lynched obviously, but I'm not expecting it in this case given how zarepath was under fire. | ||
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On March 19 2013 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Because you didn't do the work yourself, you let others push the wagon for you. You just made the (bad) case that got him lynched. And it's not a lie that you weren't here, you weren't here. That's the context that I use "lurker" not that you were here watching it all go down. When I said "you lurked" I meant "you weren't here" which is NOT a lie, it's a fact. Anyway, you can say I'm taking your pressure vote too seriously. That's fine. Your post explicitly states that you think he could be scum and that his interaction with GreY looked "forced" and that's reasoning for thinking someone is scum. Honestly you can try and "spin" that however you want, but it's explicit in your post. People need only read it to see the truth. I'm sick and tired of people that I accuse simply going "NO U". It's really annoying. VE it's not true his case was bad when a lot of people agreed with it. Just cause it was on town doesn't mean this dude is scum, it means that Greymist played looking scummy and others noticed, and Ryu had the hammer. However it sure gave scum a good opportunity to jump on it and I find it really really strange that you pick on the guy starting a bandwagon in such way when there are people who joined in ways inconsistent with their former scumreads and with weak reasoning. Go look them up in my big post, I've summarized two of those people there. Still gotta look at TPS and GK's filters and maybe think about who could be scum aside from glurio, but I've got a beer in and am a little tired so I don't promise anything. My case stands, please take a look at it and evaluate the reads in it. | ||
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On March 19 2013 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Vivax to put it as Mocsta would: Your logical fallacy is Appeal to Popularity. Just because a lot of people agreed with it doesn't mean it's a good case. It's an EFFECTIVE case in that it convinced a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that the points are valid. Then you should have convinced people of it being bad before GM got lynched, in accordance with your stronger scumread DP. Calling Ryu scummy cause of his (posthoc bad) case after GM got lynched is easy when you know his alignment now, and where did your DP read go anyway? | ||
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TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively. I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. | ||
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On March 19 2013 07:43 glurio wrote: Well i find zares obsession with finding out the smurfs identity quite odd. It doesn't help anyone at this point. What do you make of Ryu, vivax? I don't care about Ryu I care about the other 4 guys stop dodging my questions on purpose before you ask some, thanks (also I already talked about him so you should actually know if you read my posts). | ||
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I've decided to extend my case with the other guys, rejoice! Also, in case of my death (and other guys) PLEASE, please look at my posts. Too many times people don't do that. Look at who I read as town, who I read as scum, who read me as what. People disregard it as WIFOM but it's all valuable information in getting behind scum's thought process. Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Before they kill me in a horrible way I'll start with those with small filters and probably be a little more vague on TPS cause he seems to be the more active sort of scum but it looks like the kind who tends to slip so you will catch him sooner or later. So first, part 1 to the scumwnage: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=37#728 GOODKARMA YO (This will be easy) Ok, part 1 of this post he replies to this regarding grey: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. As we see GK rides an attack against Coag along with Glurio - click for link (soft one Look at dem TPS and Zarepath reads) and TPS at the time (surprise suprise) His own points against Coag are that he doesn't post scumreads and it's unclear as to why he refers to Coag as policy lynch. It seems like good town atmosphere for GK is to discuss policy lynches he defines himself as such cause a guy didn't post his scumreads, but let's look at the next post. Next he comments a little on Grey, posts very little..seems detached.Well ok nothing we can say against that it's the next part where it gets juicy. Wiggles calls him out for it (rightfully) and says he pressures Coag for not posting scumreads but GK didn't provide anything himself, and calls Coag scummy for not giving reads, refuses to give reads himself and referred to Coag as policy lynch, so judge for yourself. Then, there's this question to Ryu which seems unlikely as scum to scum question so it was one of the reasons I dismissed Ryu for now, I already mentioned this in my previous case post (hi stutters). On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu: Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style? ALRIGHT, next interesting post. We see GK sets himself up for the common bandwagons in this post when the time seems ripe. He also soft defends TPS like most of the other guys I mentioned. Oh, you. Why is it suspicious? Most people were kinda sold on their own targets and consolidated later for lack of a common agreement, on Greymist after Ryu's post. They did so after pushing for their own lynch and asking their targets questions. GK however seems to be switching from target to target, but with very low pressure or pushing between them. He said Coag is scummy, he didn't post a case nor ask questions. He said GM was detached etc. etc., no case and no questions. He said Wiggles was scummy and that it's not OMGUS, no ____ and no ______ Now he's back to GM!Surprise! He also seems fine with DP. What a coincidence zarepath and cosmicomics too! Need I say more? + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote: I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. On March 17 2013 13:52 goodkarma wrote: Well, here it comes... The promised post. While I don't know if it can live up to everyone's expectations, I'll do my best. These are the people I've currently focused my attention on.: Greymist First off, go through Greymist's filter and here's your challenge: find a game he's played in that is a serious one (e.g. non-caller) he solo played. I found one hydra game, and a caller game, but those aren't exactly helpful in this context. Hence why I asked. I'm 99% sure that people just spewed out the accusation I was too lazy to search without even thinking to look themselves, because that's their level of fucking lazy... I sifted through the 10 pages and couldn't find anything... Greymist is someone that has contributed nothing of value to date. What little he has said seems to be either completely not relevant to the game, general agreement to remarks made, or concern about being accused in the case of sandroba. He hasn't stuck his neck out at all, and is currently on my scumlist. He is my top scumread, as unlike some other lurker-type players, he's had ample opportunity to contribute and every time he's opted to provide nothing of value. ##Vote: Greymist Darthpunk Darthpunk is someone whose play I know can be stellar as both town and scum, yet currently I'm leaning towards scum. He has been lurking the thread rather hard, which is uncharacteristic of both his town and scum play. Yet what little he has said just doesn't make sense to me as town. He seems content to lynch the first (trolly) thing that moves (gerupt), and then to not followup in thread at all... This is definitely not pro-town, and I'm leaning scum on him, but I'd really like to see more from him. It's the biggest reason I've been trying to wait before giving scumreads, because I was really expecting more from him. Peashooter When it comes to thepeashooter, I was in general agreement with blazinghand's case. However, what sticks out to me is that instead of backing down, he's decided to maintain his case against coagulation. This is not the kind of move I'd expect from scum, as all it does is have him keeping his neck stuck out in general view. It would have been much easier for him (as scum) to move to a popular target and hide behind him. As such, I'm inclined to not vote for him this cycle and give him a chance. This is not a wagon I plan to get behind. Sandroba Finally, there's Sandroba. What worries me most about Sandroba is that lurking the shit out of thread is a scumtell for him. I'm thinking specifically of the scumgame he had in chrono trigger mafia, the only game I've personally played with him. There, past a certain point, he kind of just completely gave up trying. If he can't contribute any further by the deadline, my vote will likely switch to him. It ends with these two in quick succession (no questions or anything between them, common pattern) and I'm not commenting on more actually. My fingers itch and are tired from my big cases today, I need to go for glurio now. Use your own judgement, I only provide the right lenses. On March 17 2013 15:42 goodkarma wrote: "Pure scum motivations," as in your case against me? Over half the players would qualify as "easy" "lurker-lynches" right now. Yet you seem to completely overlook this... My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. That leaves Sandro, for whom lurking specifically matches with his scum meta. And that is why he stands out above the other "lurkers." There are literally only a handful of people right now who are active (none of which I have a scumread on), so if you choose to hold against me that I'm choosing "easy targets" on that grounds then I'd say you're being a bit ridiculous. I'm following my top scumreads. Tbh, I don't care if you think they're easy. Anyhow: ##Unvote ##Vote: Sandroba On March 18 2013 05:18 goodkarma wrote: Briefly discussing some thoughts on the new suspects in the flurry of posts that have appeared since last night: Regarding DarthPunk: Darthpunk is definitely looking scummy right now. I understand where VisceraEyes is coming from in his case, and I generally agree with his points. One point I don't agree on though, is DP's defense of me. I understand where he's coming from there, and I attribute it to the several games we've played together. And yes, VisceraEyes you can feel free to jump all over this as a soft defense or yada yada... But I know what DarthPunk's capable of if he actually is town, and there's enough doubt in my mind right now as to if he's scum that I'd really rather not lynch him day one. If he's town, it's an absolute waste. Further, if he's scum I'm confident I could spot it in later days. Ironically, this is pretty similar to the reasoning he used for me. But as of right now, I would say he indeed is scummy for the reasons you've mentioned. Regarding Grey: I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Grey I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ GLURIO JA Well basically the post I linked is a strong point imo but I'm also least sure about this guy cause his filter is small, he defended many people who I think are townies (me included) although he did give my top scumreads slack. He sheeped on the DP wagon and left, just now popped in and asked me a question with its answer in my filter without answering mine and disappeared. So I feel like he could be a decent fifth scum but first of all: 1.Lynch Zarepath 2. Lynch Cosmicomics 3. Lynch GK 4. Lynch TPS 5. (lynch glurio) Reevaluate after their flips, there's a lot of time. It doesn't look like there's vets among them and I don't know how DrH balances his setups but in case of doubt assume he randomed. These guys all are unwilling to give out reads on each other and some of them started to attack zarepath only after I posted my huge case (and after asking veeery unrelated questions and disappearing, just TPS and zare stayed around acting pretty weird), see it and believe it. Alright, I hope I'll be around tomorrow and not dead. If I die, you can imagine why (hint: Not WIFOM) <3 town | ||
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On March 18 2013 09:49 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote: Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? I tried to actually see if sciberbia got something wrong here, but upon checking it's true. Zarepath said that he found DP's entrance post scummy later on, but expressed doubts towards thinking he's scum later (30 minutes) for an early vote. I agree that this is inconsistent. Upon rereading Zarepath I actually realized my read might be wrong. I noticed another inconsistency: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote: I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1. I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. TPS was basically one of the first setup speculators but he somehow preferred geript over him as scumread and never tried to pressure or interact with TPS (despite Wade being loud and hammering him, so he must have seen that going on in the thread). I'm sold on hopping on the zarepath bandwagon, alternatively. Also, the last point is relevant if Zare flips red, this post is from much earlier. WoS why should I take medicine against huge dumps it's much better than mental diarrhea. | ||
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On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote: Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum. Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument. Back to work now. What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though? | ||
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Bring the arguments against Wiggles and TranceStorm then. Bring other reads when you use them for association or to stop pressure on townreads. You also forgot to include previous arguments you used to say GK played scummy in your list, why do you forget your own arguments for saying people might be scum and instead say he's just scummy for activity now? Others are far less active. | ||
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BAD news: Looks like one of my reads was wrong, is it you who is town TPS? Maybe rather glurio? GOOD news: BH likely scum, I have evidence that the logs are faked. As you see, BH talks about hosts dragging their feet setting up the mason qt. Since the message can't have been a PM (you see the Edit Delete?) it's clear it was written in another qt. Not hard to guess which one. + Show Spoiler + Edit Delete Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive. In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta. The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking. Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now. I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts? 1 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-17-2013 08:52 PM ET (US) Edit Delete Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game. ##Vote WadeFell huehuehueheuheuehueheuheu | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". Given how layabout calls this obvious slip stupid, but was pretty quick to damn me for a slip that wasn't one earlier, I'm now also suspicious of him. Layabout why do you call cosmic out of all players to look at this? | ||
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Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote: Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. | ||
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On March 20 2013 01:46 layabout wrote: Misread this first point, VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs. If they use the same qt for all masons it still doesn't mean anything. The evidence is that that first post had been written somewhere else and wasn't a PM. Of course, I am aware BH might say it was a PM he pasted there afterwards, but it was obvious there had been some sort of other communication between the two before that post got exchanged. Their conversation can't have started with such a PM. So it means that, if BH argues it was a pasted PM, then there is communication between them he didn't post, and it means that he deliberately only posted a part of it, a part that puts them in good light and lets them appear like they're scumhunting, we completely miss the first PM's between them, if there ever were any. Also, usually you reply to PM directly with a reply button, so if it was a PM we should see the quotes of the previous PM's he replied to, and that's not the case. Se yeah, that shit is fabricated. | ||
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On March 20 2013 01:59 zarepath wrote: Also, PMs are against the rules. So BH had to have been in some form of communication with SOMEONE in order for that first sentence to mean anything. It sounds like the QT wasn't even up, so who was he talking to and in what sphere? Are PM's against the rules for masons? If that's the case then that post was 100 % from another qt. | ||
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On March 20 2013 02:13 layabout wrote: It would literally be more productive for you both to bash your faces off of your keyboards than to pursue this train of thought. Argue why it wasn't a slip then. What is the "here" he posts that post in if he says in the same line that the hosts are taking their time with the mason qt? | ||
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On March 20 2013 01:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok found it. It's the timestamps that bother me. Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them. Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means a) they were planning in the scum QT b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null) c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later. The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here. Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think. It's hard to argue with the timestamps people need different times to write. In chats however they can be indicative somehow. What I find suspicious is that they seem to talk about their own stuff but not really question each other to find out if the other guy is scum. When I invited gonzaw to my shipdeck in Themed game (I was captain Picard lol) I immediately got him into a chat and started asking him quick questions to get a feeling about his alignment. In the chat between BH and GK we don't see any of that, they are like: I think this guy and this guy is scum and here's why, gonna push him with this and that, thoughts? Kthxbye was a pleasure. In the chat between VE and BH we see instead that VE is way more direct to BH and also says he suspects him: VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted 03-18-2013 06:59 PM ET (US) To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though. Can you go into detail about your read on TPS? VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 12:40 AM ET (US) It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude. | ||
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If you looked into my cases and pick one that you like instead of bitching so much about others being stupid and not speaking english you could probably achieve more. You've done nothing but defending yourself lately and you said at night that you found some stuff about zarepath weird yet I don't see anything indicating that you're interested in lynching anyone. | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote: VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? | ||
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Or scum can kill a guy if they know the name like TPS said early. Keep it to yourself. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:20 zarepath wrote: I don't know if this means much, but the creator for the QT I'm in now is DRHEL. For some reason I doubt that the host would allow someone to make their own QT. I've played more newbie games than not; is it ever a practice for the players to make their own QT in a normal game? Well it does mean much, cause layabout says VE and GK confirmed that the logs were correct, they can't know if they were correct if you aren't in the same qt GK wrote in. Your versions conflict with each other. On March 20 2013 01:46 layabout wrote: Misread this first point, VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs. | ||
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How is layabout supposed to know that the logs were correct based on what VE and GK say, the argument is complete nonsense if you start from the assumption that: 1. GK would be scum anyway. 2. VE isn't in the same qt as GK As for the mason qt, why does BH need the hosts to make the last two if he was able to make one by himself first? Doesn't that mean that, by rules, the qt has to be created by the hosts? Or else he could simply open the last two by himself as well. How reliable is it that he's blaming his first qt on the host? | ||
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On March 20 2013 08:20 Wade Fell wrote: They didn't drag their feet for the other 2, they responded immediately to my PMs and opened the QTs. DrH explicitly told me via PM to make the GK mason QT myself. The fact that the hosts' shittiness is making me look bad is infuriating but that's all there is to it. Your post suggests you were expecting a new qt to be opened. Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. "so I'll drop some stuff in here" is just, meh, it shows you were expecting to drop some other stuff elsewhere and you say you were in a hurry. Why post you're dropping stuff in here cause you're in a hurry and the host didn't open it when you're already in the right qt. You said the hosts agreed on you opening it first, you make it sound like there's still a problem and you have to get rid of a post cause you can't wait for them (probably so GK could prepare the response to it) I don't believe you, but I'm fine with lynching my other reads for the moment, whoever gets the majority first. Cases already written here above and here I would have probably given a chance to your version if you first opened a qt on your own then got the permission to share it, but you said you opened it after getting a PM so that post doesn't sound right in my ears. I also noticed you wrote some stuff against me, funny cause you say I'm inconsistent between here and here which isn't scummy at all, one is D1, one is N1 and for my N1 post all the reasoning is laid out. Never forgot what I thought, just made new reads after the flip. | ||
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On March 20 2013 08:46 Wade Fell wrote: I did not expect a new QT to be opened It looks like you wrote that post up in a qt and posted it in your scum qt while waiting for hosts to open up the mason one. Was it prepared beforehand or did you write it on the go while in the mason qt? | ||
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Hey BH, you're a pretty quick writer you wrote that post in the mason qt in just 1 minute after a gigantic post in the thread but you say you wrote it there. THREAD: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 09:08 Wade Fell wrote: Your vote is literally meaningless. Coag's meta is to do this. He's well known, and in time we will have a chance to better discern his alignment. You think based on a couple meaningless posts we have grounds to lynch him? He's clearly just joshing around. What I find scummy is an attempt to contribute and write big posts that are actually meaningless, or an attempt to look like you're contributing when in fact you are not. I didn't like your low-quality posts on setup speculation (nonvaluable, looks like you're contributing to the untrained eye) and I like your attack on Coag here even less. What's your reason for voting coag? He made some worthless posts, but unlike you, he took no efforts to make the sewage exploding from his mouth look useful. He might be shit, but at least he's honest about it. What you're doing here? This is a policy lynch of Coag. That's literally what this is. You're saying "coag's style doesn't sit well with me, and even though others have told me about his meta, I'm going to disregard that and just lynch him anyways cause i'm bad or scum" Like, you say coag is scummy and worthless based on a lack of interest int he game 24 hours in, and also this is fucking coag. You know this wagon won't work, but here you get to look "principled" and appear to contribute to town without giving reads on the cases that matter. Why no weighing in on Geript and his scummy play (though he's simply an idiot afaik) or GoodKarma, who although he is playing to his town meta from NMMXXIV and not like scum as he was in LVII, is lynchbait since he posts slowly and poeple don't know him? They're absent from your filter. No thoughts on VE's hilarious but ultimately unuseful plan? It's more and more obvious. You're opting out of the town discourse. It would have fooled a lesser town. But this town has me. You die today, thepeashooter. Anyone who thinks otherwise has another thing coming. QT:+ Show Spoiler + 03-17-2013 09:07 PM ET (US) Edit Delete Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive. In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta. The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking. Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now. I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + It's a guy who says these things to a guy who asks questions to a claimed veteran. Kita don't you feel my Zarepath, GK and cosmicomics cases are good? I feel they are the strongest ones and I will likely not let go of those reads. I still have 2 wildcards currently occupied by Layabout and BH but TPS and glurio would fit in there too. | ||
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Now he does the same stuff with zarepath, he completely forgets about him and basically tells him what he does wrong about his posts before doing so. No pressure, no questions, just telling him how to play. Fitting for scumbuddies. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote: Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him. First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. On March 19 2013 09:42 goodkarma wrote: Leaning scum is a read. And encouraging people to post to get a better read on them is hardly scummy... If you think I'm scum make an actual case, or use your time more productively. On March 19 2013 11:00 goodkarma wrote: One reason for that might be that you spoilered the entire thing... Looking at it, as best I can tell you point out that Hopeless hasn't really provided much substantive content, and that his complete flip on his stance on Darth is odd. I could see some potential scum motivation for these actions, but honestly your case is pretty thin. You can't just go through a guy's post history and say "this and that are odd..." What we're interested in is scum motivation. As in: Why is it that this particular post is more likely for scum Hopeless to make than town Hopeless? As it stands your recent case posts sometimes read like summaries of the guy's actions. Which is just fluff that makes it ten times harder to read, and doesn't add any value... The Hopeless case was not that substantial imo, which is part of the reason people probably didn't say much about it. With a rather sparse filter and a replacement coming in, we'll have a better read on him after Ace subs in. | ||
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Since we don't seem to have vigis I support a layabout lynch over a Coagulation lynch. His last case was D1 if I recall correctly. | ||
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Since you guys all despise my reads I'll endorse a TPS lynch (he has been defended by my scumreads and is currently playing in a way I find openly and purposedly useless for scumhunting purpose, still feel it's more of a policy lynch if he gets lynched before my other scumreads) or a layabout lynch (openly scummy and anti-town too, doesn't give a fuck and doesn't cooperate). + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: VOTE COUNT! ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (1): Coagulation (0): GreYMisT (12): testsubject893 (0): Sandroba (0): zarepath (6): DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm cosmicomics (0): DarthPunk (3): Vivax (0):: VisceraEyes (0): Voting is compulsory | ||
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I also checked his filter from LX where he was town, and after reading a little I realized a few differences, I also noticed he mentions many points about people doing "null" things, which isn't really something you try to pay attention to as town. In LX he talked much more about lynch candidates, as rule of thumb. Won't make an extended case though since there are already enough out, will post something that would be funny if he flips red though: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 15:39 WaveofShadow wrote: I did the same thing..... (I do!) | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:12 Mocsta wrote: Vivax Thanks for joining the Wagon of Justice To more pressing matters a couple posts above, I wrote some light (i.e was on Tablet) commentary about the mason logs (that I reformatted for easy reading on p74). Care to share some of your insight? After, you had the right reads as town in Personality 2.. lets hear your feedback on those logs pl0x I think I already said something similar here as response to WoS actually. I need to doublecheck the WoS wagon still, didn't even read all the new posts that popped up since I went to bed. The strongest point in his favour is that he joined the Greymist wagon last when there was no point since he was set to be lynched anyway. If you're scum, why join a bandwagon on someone you know is a townie about get lynched anyway? So yeah, my decision is subject to change, I do notice differences in his play though. But then again they might be just that, in different games even when he might have the same alignment. Still would prefer to lynch someone like cosmicomics, layabout or TPS. Cosmicomics fits into the profile of lurky scum. And TPS + layabout seem more careless to me than Coag tbh. | ||
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WoS if you have a role don't claim it. It will make it useless for the following nights. Leave scum in the dark. I'll jump off your wagon anyway if I can get one of GK/TPS/cosmic/layabout lynched, work on convincing people about them instead of talking about yourself. Mocsta nightmare can only talk during the night I think, that masoned guy should know about WoS being likely scum in that case, so I don't think he's that. | ||
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You die, it becomes useless, you survive after claiming, it becomes useless. | ||
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Mocsta another thing: During N1 and early D2 you were on zarepath calling him scummy about a lot of things (remember how he asked about the rolename?). Now you seem to have lost track, what's your current read of zare? | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:11 Mocsta wrote: Can i call that a delurk? lol actually my primary suspect hasnt chagned since my first read of p7-p20 the other day and my read now of p7-p15 tonight. If it wasnt clear who that was since I joined the thread, its BH I thought it was GK. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 03:09 Mocsta wrote: Im only up to p13. but GoodKarma is scum yo On March 19 2013 03:24 Mocsta wrote: I agree DYH Im up to p15 and my two strongest reads are: GoodKarma + zarepath zarepath already from his first 10 posts, is posting completely different to the 3-4 games I played with him in the past 1 to 2 months (he was town in all of them). 3rd read = weak is Vivax from his first post.. very odd reads, but will reevaluate as i read more of the thread. | ||
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Can we lynch cosmicomics/layabout/GK please? | ||
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Second: We lynch VE, maybe not today, but at a later point. He did something abismally dumb and says he didn't get a response after writing "I accept", yet on the other hand says he cut off the communications with The Mirror afterwards. So we don't know what's up, except that he just created a whole lot of confusion to shit up the thread, and he deserves to be lynched for that and cause we are unsure what his alignment really is now. He said he didn't get host confirmation for his wincon change, yet his line might be enough as condition to join that party, so even if he's not sure himself, we lynch him. On another note: I think Wiggles is town for reasons stated. We see he had an early townread on WoS and wasn't afraid to explain it before his claim, so that kinda makes me trust him. Aside from that it doesn't look like scum Wiggles from the game I was in with him. Scum WIggles and Scum sciberbia (and me) I would prefer to lynch cosmicomics today and leave VE for a later point. I don't think his party has KP and I believe his claim that he has been shot. However we don't know if he survived cause he is bulletproof third party or really a veteran. This 3p likely has no KP and just tries to grow and outnumber town. So they aren't as threatening as scum, that means we try to lynch scum first. If someone is willing to join me in the lynch on my previously stated reads please tell me. I'll take layabout away from them for the moment cause of his case against WF. Cosmicomics and GK are the way to go first, though. | ||
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WF Day 1 start: March 16 2013 15:51 First post between GK and Wade - Wade chose to contact GK only 6 hours before deadline (!) + Show Spoiler + 08:52:00 p.m. Sunday March 17, 2013 in US/Eastern converts to 09:52:00 a.m. Monday March 18, 2013 in Asia/Seoul 03-17-2013 08:52 PM ET (US) Edit Delete Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game. VE + Show Spoiler + The "Mirror" is a third party cult leader of some kind and he tried to recruit me last night. Everyone beware "The Mirror" - he is in our midst and he will try and convert you too. VisceraEyes 03-20-2013 11:50 AM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Fuck it I accept. If I'm going to be ignored by most of the thread, I might as well punish them for it. 7 The Mirror 03-20-2013 11:38 AM ET (US) Of course I have countermeasures for survival. I would not have been given such an arduous task if it were not. And it seems like you are perceptive enough to understand what I offer you. Do not fret about the delay in notification. That seems to be ... a trend this game. I shall inform you that playing "townie" will be in your best interest, and will hardly conflict with the greater purpose you shall receive. Everything will be made ... crystal clear. A-haha. 11:50:00 a.m. Wednesday March 20, 2013 in US/Eastern converts to 12:50:00 a.m. Thursday March 21, 2013 in Asia/Seoul The timestamps of VE don't seem to be from last night, but from this day. Something is foul here or didn't I check thoroughly? | ||
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Please stop spamming the thread and put huge quotes in spoilers thanks. You doing conversation like that only makes you both look like idiots and doesn't get anyone lynched. /moderation While I think VE is 3p by now I think we should try to hit scum today, but w/e | ||
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I am still confident zarepath, GK and cosmicomics are scum. However, as I see it as of now there are the 2 wildcards I mentioned earlier: Given Trancestorm's latest entrance and a look at his filter I feel he is a good candidate for one of the spots, in the other spot I see fitting either Coag, WF or kita. Coag obviously the guy I'm least sure about. Fairly confident in saying that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon currently, and VE is grasping at the most likely lynch according to common opinions to save his own hide right now. | ||
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Anyway thinking about it, it's somewhat unlikely that The Mirror can convert as many people as he pleases, that would be OP, so I feel unsure about this lynch. Let's vig-lynch Coag instead, else we will never be able to read him anyway and you can't leave everything to vigs. | ||
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"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands. Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz Unvote Vote: Coagulation | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote: This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion. It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively. And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention. You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players. | ||
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Would have preferred you to cut out the "I accept" although it would have been somewhat lying, but I recognize that it's something that actually puts you into more favourable light, I can't persuade people on my own however. Kenpachi please read the whole thread before you accuse someone of being scum. Your vote on me is completely unreasonable. If you gotta vote for someone while low on information then lynch-vig someone like Coag. Not much you can do wrong, it's win-win for town. | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:11 TranceStorm wrote: Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day. Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach. No, being on the mislynch wagon with a load of other townies is no risk for them. Each of the townies on the wagon can't accuse them of that without accusing themselves, and outside townies can't accuse them without accusing other townies, it's the perfect example of blending in. You can be accused of your reasons to switch to it/join it, but not of pushing it or being on it. | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:25 layabout wrote: The correct play is to lynch VE, we cannot trust that we can vig him and he posted logs of him joining a 3rd party. We should kill wiggles tonight, since i expect a lot more from him when he rolls town. Vivax there is not way i could write like "The mirror" does in that qt you seem to be mad at me because i called what you were doing and saying dumb. But it was and you need to come to terms with this. This game the effort you have put in has been orders of magnitude better than you did in the last two games and there is next to no chance that you are scum. maybe read this (post 228): http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rXAf5L6B4Z4e6 Whilst i no longer think zarepath is scum your analysis of him was good. Do more of that. The thing is not just that, it's also that I feel you don't really have interest in pushing cases yourself or figure things out, but talk about a lot of other stuff, for which I could see you fit into 3rd party. Will not really go into detail about the things that give me that feeling since I have bigger fish to fry and you are low priority, if indeed (supposedly) KP-less third party. Then on the other hand you also looked a little like that in LX, but less I'd say. You seemed more eager to push your reads. If you're town I'd like you to help amplificate the message of cases you find good, or try to do so with your own, know what I mean? | ||
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I don't think Wiggles is scum. I have doubts VE could be third party and if he is he comes after scum. We should kill Coag, he's a big fat ? who doesn't contribute anything useful on purpose, if he is town we will never know, and if he is scum we won't either. So let's get rid of that dude. Enough of this "Leave it to the vigs policy", teach people how to play the game if they don't want their arse kicked by townies that don't want that type of player around. Do you want Coag around? | ||
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Can somebody explain to me why there are so many votes on VE? Do you guys all think he is scum or third party or are you just voting him to resolve this mess? Cause scum wants him dead simple. And they want Wiggles dead, too. In case of emergency, break the Coag. | ||
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Do you have a read on Coag? + Show Spoiler + Why don't you have a read on Coag? + Show Spoiler + Why don't you try to think about whether Coag is scum or not? + Show Spoiler + Do you want him to keep playing like that? + Show Spoiler + Then why don't you lynch him since he will? | ||
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You know my 3 fixed scumreads, it'd be them. | ||
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Unvote Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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Feel free to give each other a nice townread. And think about the implications this has for GK, trancestorm, Wade Fell, zarepath, cosmicomics. Especially WF and zarepath, who are masoned together and have been very verbose throughout the game appear additionally scummy to me for the lack of involvement at this time. | ||
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This makes me really really sad. I'm glad however that people are noticing what's up. | ||
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Cosmicomics1: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 01:21 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Sandroba I wrote about him here cosmicomics Let's put ourselves into the shoes of a townie who didn't post anything yet at a later point in D1. You don't know who's innocent, you don't know who's guilty, so you will usually say "I find this dude suspicious cause of x and I agree with y cause of bsbsbsbsbs" after having a read of everything, maybe throw in a few questions to see who agrees with you on something or why someone did a certain thing. I can't remember the last time I popped into the thread asking a question about a dude I don't know the alignment of, and nitpicking while doing so. Look at the question in question. It's not constructed to get a reasonable answer for the purposes of this game. It's constructed in a way that I have to answer with a version of town sandro I have in my head. Maybe town sandro does x and y and z, shortly, it's constructed in a way that it may lead me to say tons of stupid things if I answered it. Thanks to another player I value for his support, he answered this question for me by providing a town sandro filter. But that's not the worst about this question. As I said, I consider this to be nitpicking. I wrote And this dude picks a cherry and ignores everything I actually said about why sandro doesn't look like town without commenting on the points I made. He doesn't give his own opinion of sandro and doesn't agree on at least a bit of it, cause he should. What I said is true. In the next post, he twists my words: Again, sandro's reads did differ from mine. But cosmicomics cherrypicks again, since not only was my point that sandro's reads were strange cause they differed from mine, but they were strange cause he gave them without reasoning and they didn't seem to make sense to me. And I said it in the post. Then he proceeds to defend sandroba based on some unique scumhunting style. I saw sandro being wrong and right often enough to not give him an air of legend allowing him to give reads without explanation and fucking off. Cosmicomics seems to be idealizing a guy he shouldn't have a read on this early in the game. After this he makes a quick minicase regarding an inconsistency, with no conclusion as to why DarthPunk is scum, drops his vote and doesn't inquire anything further regarding DP. This is the guy I want to lynch the most today. It looks a lot like he's posting with an agenda. ##Unvote ##Vote cosmicomics Cosmicomics and Zarepath: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 01:09 Vivax wrote: I'd like to analyse the votes and the related posts with a few presumptions:
I think those who switched from DP to GM last are most worth a look: Zare and cosmic. So first of all, let me start with my reasoning as to why I think that most if not all of scum is on the GM bandwagon. To do so, we have to exclude that scum were on the other two wagons. Let's start with DP (who I have as townread currently) I think the DP wagon has two explanations: Either DP is scum and zare and cosmic set themselves up to bus him only to switch later. Or they thought that his wagon would gain steam and then saw that it didn't work, deciding to switch to GM (possibly to save zarepath). To check which one applies, I'd have to see how Zare + cosmic vote for DP and then switch to GM. Do they push the lynches? Are they consistent with their reads? Are the reasons good? That said, I'll leave it to them to justify it. After rereading Zarepath I'm confident he's scum anyway, as for cosmic, you should know my opinion on him since early. I think the zarepath wagon was the right wagon to go, and am assuming all on that one were townies. Sciberbia hit like a swiss knife again. So we are left with the GM wagon. Now let me point out the switches coupled with my former reasoning. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ZAREPATH The timing of this post + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote: Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far. Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum. The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive. I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him. I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk. ##Vote: DarthPunk was right after DP got his ass gunned by VE. So zarepath should have felt that a wagon was coming and set himself up for it, and, coupled with the inconsistency sciberbia pointed out where zare asked that question about DP's early vote being unlikely for scum this doesn't look good for zare who suddenly got a scumread on the guy who just defended himself quite effectively, in my opinion. As always, zarepath seems to be in a hurry, so he drops a couple of reasons to vote for him. I disagree with some reasons he mentions but they're not the main point of this case. Does he push the case? No he doesn't. What we also notice is the timing of his vote. He cast his vote on DP after Ryu's convincing case on Grey. Time difference: Then, when Grey had 8 votes on him already, he comes in with that "read" on him after asking him a question Not only did Ryu post a pretty strong case against Grey, which was the main reason so many people switched to him, and Zare doesn't refer to it at all, but he even thought DP was a better choice when Ryu posted the case before Zare voted DP. Does this look like a guy who's trying to figure the game out? Who pushes his lynches? Who explains his reads? Frankly I don't know what the reason is for why he votes Greymist, but apparently this guy doesn't have any real scumreads, cause when called out by sciberbia for his inconsistency, he says this: Did you see DP being stubborn about his scumreads although under heavy pressure? Or Greymist saying he wants GK lynched while going down? This is what townies behave (Yes I think DP is town). Scumreads over everything, real patriots of their hometown. Zarepath instead gives weak reasoning for switching votes, and his reads look fake. He doesn't have the ambition of a townie to get the scum lynched, he says Greymist is scummy but at the same time says he wants to vote for him to save his own hide. If you think the first you don't argue with the latter. Verdict 1: Zarepath is scum. Let's go back to the defence post: This dude defended both TPS and GK, who all have done scummy things according to most of this town, yet this guy disagrees with a lynch on them, says he has nothing to add, then lists things he finds scummy about them. Instinctive: We assume they are his scumbuddies, so we dig a little there, too, and we also see they were early on the GM wagon, like predicted at the start of this post. I'm right in between them (curse me). Scumlarm rings. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ COSMICOMICS Most of the stuff I found suspicious about Cosmic still applies. So I'll just stick to the newer stuff especially related to the GM bandwagon, my old one is here So first, let's bring up what he does exactly like zarepath, he tries to get the DP bandwagon rolling, and later switches to Grey even though he voted DP after Ryu's case. (His first post regarding DP included a vote here but not in the voting thread, so he did vote after Ryu's case effectively). As we see, cosmicomics reasons for voting DP were his pressure vote on geript and how it was a lie cause he stopped the RNG stuff. I think this is a terrible point to bring against someone being mafia and only represents cosmicomics trying to use something that looks like an inconsistency to jump on and push the DP wagon. Early game pressure votes when people talk about the hipsteRNG are perfectly fine in my opinion and I had my vote on kita for a long time even after he delurked right after it, that's inconsistent too but it doesn't make me scum. I mainly want to show the mafia agenda behind the switch from DP to Grey, cause I think mafia tried to save zarepath's ass with the switch from DP to Grey later. Here we see something that only reinforces my connection case: Zarepath defended TPS and GK. Cosmicomics defends Zarepath and GK and shows really weird behaviour. He thinks I'm showing genuine efforts by directing the attention towards him. I don't know about you but when I'm town I don't like people calling me scum and forcing me to defend myself. But well, what matters is his defense of these two guys. Then cosmic asks DP these two questions: Upon which DP reacts with this: Judge these reasons to favour Greymist by yourself. I think cosmicomics is scummy since early, so just go read my case GOODKARMA Then obviously, there's GK and TPS. I think these two dudes are scum, too if I just look at how Zare and cosmic handled them. I currently don't know who the fifth scum might be, but I kinda ruled out Ryu for this question from GK I'll post more later and possibly figure out the fifth one, writing this post was pretty tiring and took me ages :3 GoodKarma (and glurio) + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 08:47 Vivax wrote: Anyway I've decided that I'm pissed off by how scum responded to my case unpunished by fellow townies so I've decided to awake the sleeping half-drunk dragon in me and finish them off with some more bombastic reads from good old crazy Vivax. + Show Spoiler + Before they kill me in a horrible way I'll start with those with small filters and probably be a little more vague on TPS cause he seems to be the more active sort of scum but it looks like the kind who tends to slip so you will catch him sooner or later. So first, part 1 to the scumwnage: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=37#728 GOODKARMA YO (This will be easy) Ok, part 1 of this post he replies to this regarding grey: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. As we see GK rides an attack against Coag along with Glurio - click for link (soft one Look at dem TPS and Zarepath reads) and TPS at the time (surprise suprise) His own points against Coag are that he doesn't post scumreads and it's unclear as to why he refers to Coag as policy lynch. It seems like good town atmosphere for GK is to discuss policy lynches he defines himself as such cause a guy didn't post his scumreads, but let's look at the next post. Next he comments a little on Grey, posts very little..seems detached.Well ok nothing we can say against that it's the next part where it gets juicy. Wiggles calls him out for it (rightfully) and says he pressures Coag for not posting scumreads but GK didn't provide anything himself, and calls Coag scummy for not giving reads, refuses to give reads himself and referred to Coag as policy lynch, so judge for yourself. Then, there's this question to Ryu which seems unlikely as scum to scum question so it was one of the reasons I dismissed Ryu for now, I already mentioned this in my previous case post (hi stutters). ALRIGHT, next interesting post. We see GK sets himself up for the common bandwagons in this post when the time seems ripe. He also soft defends TPS like most of the other guys I mentioned. Oh, you. Why is it suspicious? Most people were kinda sold on their own targets and consolidated later for lack of a common agreement, on Greymist after Ryu's post. They did so after pushing for their own lynch and asking their targets questions. GK however seems to be switching from target to target, but with very low pressure or pushing between them. He said Coag is scummy, he didn't post a case nor ask questions. He said GM was detached etc. etc., no case and no questions. He said Wiggles was scummy and that it's not OMGUS, no ____ and no ______ Now he's back to GM!Surprise! He also seems fine with DP. What a coincidence zarepath and cosmicomics too! Need I say more? + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote: I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. It ends with these two in quick succession (no questions or anything between them, common pattern) and I'm not commenting on more actually. My fingers itch and are tired from my big cases today, I need to go for glurio now. Use your own judgement, I only provide the right lenses. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ GLURIO JA Well basically the post I linked is a strong point imo but I'm also least sure about this guy cause his filter is small, he defended many people who I think are townies (me included) although he did give my top scumreads slack. He sheeped on the DP wagon and left, just now popped in and asked me a question with its answer in my filter without answering mine and disappeared. So I feel like he could be a decent fifth scum but first of all: 1.Lynch Zarepath 2. Lynch Cosmicomics 3. Lynch GK 4. Lynch TPS 5. (lynch glurio) Reevaluate after their flips, there's a lot of time. It doesn't look like there's vets among them and I don't know how DrH balances his setups but in case of doubt assume he randomed. These guys all are unwilling to give out reads on each other and some of them started to attack zarepath only after I posted my huge case (and after asking veeery unrelated questions and disappearing, just TPS and zare stayed around acting pretty weird), see it and believe it. Alright, I hope I'll be around tomorrow and not dead. If I die, you can imagine why (hint: Not WIFOM) <3 town | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:58 RyuSuzaku wrote: Vivax what do you think of TranceStorm as a lynch? I think he's more likely to be scum than glurio. I haven't looked too closely into the other players, but from memory I can't recall anything significant that any of them have done. They all are lurkers to me. That's my current opinion, too. I just wrote (and glurio) cause I thought he is included in my earlier case. Here I wrote about TS. + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 09:15 Vivax wrote: As pointed out with the Bureaucreacy slip in the qt, The Mirror is probably layabout. This also is displayed by his lack of involvement in the game and certain anti-town traits I noticed. I am still confident zarepath, GK and cosmicomics are scum. However, as I see it as of now there are the 2 wildcards I mentioned earlier: Given Trancestorm's latest entrance and a look at his filter I feel he is a good candidate for one of the spots, in the other spot I see fitting either Coag, WF or kita. Coag obviously the guy I'm least sure about. Fairly confident in saying that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon currently, and VE is grasping at the most likely lynch according to common opinions to save his own hide right now. Didn't yet summarize what I find scummy though. | ||
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Unvote Vote: GoodKarma | ||
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Maybe your claim was fake after all. | ||
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GoodKarma the obviscum is still alive. You guys should just sheep sciberbia, me a and mocsta and leave thinking to others, it doesn't suit you. You preferred ace who wasn't even here to defend himself to a guy who was scummy from the very start of D1 I see no point in posting anymore for a good while, wasted energy. GL. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:32 VisceraEyes wrote: WaveOfShadow sir. You have claimed Cop. You are now medic priority #1. As payment for this luxury, you are now required to give your full opinion on the Ace Case by Wiggles. Don't follow this. A claimed cop who plays like WoS is much more likely to be simply roleblocked than killed, and scum will know that everyone else will be vulnerable to a hit. I also doubt we have a medic cause I don't see how there are medic + DT in this setup. Maybe we have some sort of bodyguard role but I don't think there's a medic. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 16:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Final vote count: VOTE COUNT! Day 2 ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (3): Wade Fell (0): Mr. Wiggles (3): zarepath (0): WaveofShadow (0): VisceraEyes (6): cosmicomics, cosmicomics (0): TestSubject893 (0): Mocsta (1): glurio Coagulation (0): Vivax (1): Kenpachi Ace (8): Mr. Wiggles, goodkarma, DoYouHas, VisceraEyes, TranceStorm, geript, ThePeashooter, Mocsta, DarthPunk Voting is compulsory Please label who you are unvoting, it makes it easier for me. Four people sheeped the case of their SCUMREAD???HELLO?Since when do you trust the cases your scumread makes? I might understand VE cause he might be third party and only gives a fuck about himself but the others, except for DYH currently are my scumreads. GK and Trancestorm holy shit | ||
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He should still think it through 10 times before joining such a bad wagon as the one on ace. He managed to contribute in getting one of our probably most useful townies on the long term killed, and some of scum gladly helped. Seriously scum had nothing to do this fucking day, town is catabolizing itself. | ||
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I also don't like how he joined the wagons. So yeah, if scum isn't among these I will put up a dunce cap. BH/GK/TS/ZARE/COSMIC/DYH | ||
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Why didn't you pursue or question Trancestorm at all when he's been your scumread here? + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 23:34 zarepath wrote: Here's how I see things: TOWN Vivax - Too much effort into too awful a case. Puts way too much attention onto himself. DarthPunk - Too confident to not be town, and when under pressure was still confident. Pretty clean and open with what he thinks about whom. geript - One of few players who think I’m scum who have actually looked at my filters of previous games, ie, done work for their read. Glurio - Checks metas, bothered to defend me when thread sentiment was against me, unique and genuine look at WoS beginning of Night 1. Not a lot of content yet but all his content seems pretty pro-town. DoYouHas - Of all the people going after me, he is the only one to pull up my meta and look at each of the filters for evidence. He’s been the one willing to do the most work for a zarepath lynch when it could be very easy to just bandwagon onto it. Coagulation - Doesn't contribute a lot, but his thought process is clearly pro-town sciberbia - Consistent with his reads, willing to look at and filter-dive on other cases, is thinking forward-motion NULL kenpachi - I don’t see him being really productive in general, just reacts to The Thread and not actively going after particular reads. WoS - opening post seemed pretty scummy, but spent effort at least discussing the popular reads, going into my meta, etc. Potential scum slip puts him back in null territory to me Wade Fell (BH) - I had a scum read on him until I read his other QTs, which showed consistency with his thread decisions that I had questioned. I think it’s safe to let him continue masoning -- if he’s scum, he’ll be in trouble trying to keep it up now that he has to answer for each person he masons, and if town, well, it can’t hurt. I thought it was odd that he picked me, one of the townies with the least amount of town cred, to help him lynch his top scum read. But oh well. Hopeless1der - He read me as scum real quick, didn’t push it at all, came back to agree with others who picked up what he dropped off, and spent the rest of Day 1 criticizing other people’s reads and arguments. I thought that was a scum tell, but I can see how that’s null on a second look and after others have criticized my case. What I am wondering now has more to do with Ace, namely: why hasn’t he shot last night? And why wasn’t he concerned about being shot last night? There was no night post for him with a list of reads. Mocsta and Keirathi have been talking about people, but Ace is talking more about arguments. I am still suspicious of Hopeless/Ace but I am not as certain of their scumminess; I want to see what Ace contributes when he is actually in the swing of things. cosmicomics - votes for DP only after layabout literally asks him what he thinks about him. First time he mentions him, and then votes for him. But his other reads are only to say he doesn’t think people are scum, and his switch onto GM seems somewhat out-of-the-blue. Low contributor and I need to see more. goodkarma - I disliked how he began the game, but he hasn’t really shied from the limelight. BH is a lot more confident about him than I am, but his general activity is enough to keep him from being as strong a scum read as my actual scum reads. VisceraEyes - His tone has seemed fairly off, but he has poked and prodded in the right directions within his big filter. I don’t have a solid read on him yet but no reason to think he’s scum. Vet claim possibly legit, but I’ma wait until N2 results to solidify this read. sandroba - Was so certain of his first town reads, which seemed impossible. Mocsta is being annoying, and the last time he was annoying like this in a game with me he was scum. I am very curious as to his reads and how he pushes them today. RyuSuzaku - First post was a sketchy association case that didn’t seem to have much heart, just lots of suspicion; and wanted GM dead. Everything post GM’s lynch was him justifying his vote for him, no forward motion -- except for his final post, where he says VE and Test are his new suspects, both of which were fairly new/unique reads. I will wait to see how he pushes those reads and reacts to other cases today. TPS - I’m not convinced of BH's argument against him. TPS seems assertive and active, but he doesn't scream town to me, either. NULL-SCUM TestSubject - Said very little, and only about people everyone else was already talking about. layabout - Was all about DP and WoS, mostly DP, but in the end switched from DP to me without having ever said anything about me all game. Then later, this: This is a softball toss for somebody else to be like “U R RIGHT HE IS SCUM.” SCUM TranceStorm That was his justification. He also built no real case on DoYouHas despite going after him, possibly the most pro-town-looking player. Mr. Wiggles Seems deathly afraid of posting reads. His only contributions have been to disagree with other people’s scum reads or arguments. A very scummy and “helpful” “Will you two cut it out? It’s just a game” in his latest post. His GM vote came from being ASKED about him, but his justifrication is filled with “per my earlier post” and “as I stated earlier,” as if he is more concerned with looking like he’s always been for a GM lynch than he is actually justifying the GM lynch. He said he didn’t want to post reads but I see no reason why not? | ||
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On March 18 2013 00:38 TranceStorm wrote: I have no reservations on a zarepath lynch. I have nothing to contribute on him beyond what others have already said. I think that DoYouHas is a stronger candidate however. This is all pending an explanation of the Vivax 'scumslip' though. On March 19 2013 22:15 TranceStorm wrote: Hmm. Some thoughts. I'm inclined to trust Wade Hand. Like scib had said earlier, it would be much safer for a scum mason to simply a) not mason anyone or b) pretend to mason one of his teammates due to the flip of GM. As per his case on TPS, I've become more and more convinced after reading through TPS' justifications for voting for GM. It is interesting to note that TPS spends more time talking about how he thinks zarepath is scummy. Personally, I think that TPS 'let it play out' over the GM situation so that he couldn't be nailed over strongly leading the GM lynch as he tried to do with Coag. I'll vote for TPS right now. My opinion on DoYouHas has retracted somewhat. I don't think he's been 'attaching himself to arguments' as I had said earlier anymore. Also, Wiggo is still super-scummy in my eyes. His behavior during the GM lynch was really bizarre, but the single post I had highlighted earlier isn't sufficient to make me vote for him. I want to see his analysis today. On March 20 2013 00:04 TranceStorm wrote: I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be. Does anyone have a theory regarding these stances early in the game? FYI, his favourite candidates D2 were Wiggles, VE, Ace. No surprise. I'm kinda troubled whether I should think that DYH is scum or simply a town-aligned 6th scum player. I think I'll go with the latter. Can't get rid of the feeling zarepath and CC are scum anyway. | ||
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The first concern is to get rid of scum though. | ||
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On March 19 2013 23:47 TranceStorm wrote: Ok, since you think I'm scum based on that quote, allow me to justify myself. I was questioned about my willingness to lynch you after I had made my case on DoYouHas. At that point in time, you seemed very mafia-like to me and I voiced that if I would be because of the reasons articulated by other users. There is no reason to repeat what others said given that I wasn't voting for you! And think about it this. If I were scum, I could have simply given a bogus justification or repeated someone else's argument to 'appear as if I had made a contribution'. I didn't do that, I gave my opinion without writing a paragraph about why I felt that way. Unfortunately, I was unable to participate in the later brouhaha regarding the GM lynch so I couldn't make any extended push against any particular player. On March 19 2013 23:58 zarepath wrote: Can you see how it looks scummy if you make a case on DoYouHas, people question you about zarepath, and you suddenly drop your case and vote for zarepath based off of no unique reason of your own? Lack of justification is a scummy trait. On March 20 2013 00:04 TranceStorm wrote: I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be. On March 20 2013 00:07 zarepath wrote: 1. Because there's a chance I'm lynched today, and I started this reads post for a N1 post but didn't have time to finish it. Also: I don't see why it's unhelpful. 2. What do you think about Wiggles and TranceStorm? I'll be looking into them more deeply as the day goes, but I think there's a good enough amount to suspect and pressure them right now already -- Wiggles refuses to give reads, and Trance did a weird dance for yesterday's lynch. Now Trance still thinks that Wiggles is "super scummy" but has actually voted instead for TPS based off of someone else's case. His opening post is a whole lot of nothing, and so are his next few posts. 3. If you're talking about the quote I pulled with goodkarma basically giving a resume of how townie he's been, yes, that's still a strike against him in my book. But his interaction with BH in the QT has evened my read out to Null. On March 20 2013 00:08 zarepath wrote: I guess that's true; you didn't. It just looked a lot like "Sheep for hire! Any case will do!" On March 20 2013 00:22 TranceStorm wrote: @zarepath: in response to your town points (one of your posts is a response to Vivax). First, as to my lynch choice today. I have a choice to make between the case against TPS and against Mr. Wiggles (which I had pointed out first last night). For me, the compelling evidence against TPS seems to be his behavior in his very flimsy vote for GM last night and hasn't paid any lip service to the accusations leveled at him. My case against Wiggles has been responded to somewhat, if unconvincingly. In a decision between two scummy candidates, I have to the most likely one, in my opinion it is TPS. As to your second point, you are overgeneralizing. I was asked specifically for the case of zarepath, which I had read over and agreed with. That doesn't mean that any case that's presented to me will be something I agree with. On March 20 2013 01:05 zarepath wrote: Yeah, well, the QT is definitely a thing; I'm in one right now with him. I just don't understand the line about how the mods are slow about putting the QT up but still having a place to put his first line that's saying that... So it could just be BH and GK scum, but it seems like a pretty bad claim. | ||
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Bleh, no point in trying. | ||
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You also don't mention that DYH and GK did the same. I have a hard time seeing who of Zare, DYH and TS is the scum MVP among townies. Gotta go for connection based evidence :| Zare you seem to be in talkative mood currently can you give me a summary of what you think about each of BH, CC, DYH and GK? | ||
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If we have any that is. GM was a delayed mason-vig, and there were no shots last night. What makes you think we have vigis at all? | ||
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Anyway, there's something I find odd, you agree that TS is scummy here for his switch from Wiggles to Ace. + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:06 zarepath wrote: I had a strong town read on DYH because of how he attacked me D1 with more effort than anybody else, but his D2 he was just flipping from town sentiment to town sentiment. He's usually one of the first on the wagon, but not THE first: This is what Mocsta was criticizing, about having a scum read on Wiggles and then immediately voting for whoever Wiggles builds a case on. This is what Mocsta was criticizing in a nutshell. Looks way scummimer than DYH's slip imo, because it adds so much less to the case. And personally I just hate his use of exclamation points, so there's that, too. But even after I pointed out that DYH and GK did the same, you don't say they're scummy for what TS did as well + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:24 zarepath wrote: GK I have ignored ever since BH's logs with him. They both seemed town and what they said in there was consistent with how they behaved in the thread. DYH I read as town early but when I look at all of his towniest moments they are all simply him adding on to other people's cases. He picked up the zarepath case, he picked up the VE case, he picked up the Ace case. I don't see a lot of unique reads from him and I will be paying better attention to him going forward. For some reason I thought DYH would mayor this game after D1, but he's kind of disappointed since. It doesn't help that we lynched another player who could easily have formed a mayor role. You abstained from giving a DYH read and said you will look forward. How does this change your read on him? | ||
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[QUOTE]On March 22 2013 02:35 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are right that I sheeped, but you are wrong about the instance. I sheeped the Wiggles wagon because at the time I saw it as the only alternative to the VE wagon that could actually have a chance of saving VE. When I switched to Ace it was because Mr. Wiggles case won me over. I thought the case was great and was framed in a view of the game that I agreed with. The Ace wagon had all the hallmarks of 'we are about to lynch scum' that I normally look for. People with strong opinions on other candidates were being won over gradually. There was surprising initial resistance. Ace did nothing to defend himself. I screwed up, but I'm not going to rewrite my thought process to make myself look better (like Moc). I thought that Ace was the right lynch, I was wrong. As for the rest of you, I spent most of day2 trying to figure out what was actually going on with VE. He was the central topic of the day and that is where I spent my time. One of the results of that was that when I eventually decided I thought VE was town, I was lacking in scum reads elsewhere. My biggest frustration this game is that apparently people view my contributions as crap, as helping the scum team. Even to the point of calling me the 6th scum member. Yet NONE of you choose to interact with me when I'm espousing what are now seen as clear You dropped Trancestorm completely during D2 after including him among your scumreads. There, you only suspect and vote VE and testsubject during the day. When trancestorm was in the thread you ignored it. You switch to Wiggles saying "he is the only viable option (no, VE was viable too)" You switch to Ace sheeping the only viable option when the scumreads by your posts seem to be VE and TestSubject. There is a reason you are like the 6th scum member, if you are town, cause you seem to play like scum. However trancestorm attacked you early during D1 and I'm currently doubting you as scum cause of that, it's a reason I can retract however since I've made the mistake often enough to trust into the assumption that scum doesn't early bus. After this skim through your filter I'm strongly reconsidering though. It's basically between TranceStorm and you now for the last spot in the scum team, and given that zare mentions TS as being scummy for the switch but not you and GK, I would probably put TS as least probable scum currently for the selectivity Zare displayed. | ||
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Even now you don't. It's simply obvious your reads are not real and only adapted to the situations. Maybe TranceStorm is just the lynch-bait you saw at that moment to justify a switch from Zarepath to another guy later in the game and so you included him as second scumread. Why push for a TranceStorm lynch when the lynch options are between three vets who are more dangerous for scum though (in your theory)? And so you tried to get either of VE, Wiggles and ace lynched. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 15:57 DoYouHas wrote: Pre-Day Reads Town BH and GK - I believe the claim as presented by BH. Scib - Person I have agreed with the most, constructive. Vivax - I haven't agreed with him much of the time, but the way he has behaved and pursued his reads looks very townie to me. DP - This one is harder to explain, it is more of a gut read. Likely Town VE - The last time I nailed VE to the wall as scum (when I was vig) the thing that pushed him over the top for me was how he seemed to distance himself from the thread conversation. His play thus far has been very involved and spotlight grabbing which is the opposite of that game, Paranoia mafia. I am not a big fan of how he has been jumping around to different lynch targets though. Hopeless - His posts were few and short, but I liked them. Ryu - He defended himself well and like a townie when I pressured him. Keep an eye on him and make sure he is contributing on multiple subjects. People I Found Myself Agreeing With, IE The Dangerous Ones (if they are scum) Mr. Wiggles - Seems to have some pretty good analysis, but I remain cautious of him. layabout - Was one of my strongest townreads early on, and could probably fit very comfortably in my 'Likely Town' category. His lack of any lengthy analysis during day one is why I put him here. kitaman27 - Similar to layabout, I have liked a lot of what he has to say, but I feel like he has held himself separate from the conversation, which bothers me. Scummy People zarepath TranceStorm - Dude might just be lynch bait, but I really don't like his play. | ||
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On March 22 2013 03:19 kitaman27 wrote: Do we even know if the mafia team has a roleblocker? I don't remember anyone claiming it on day one. In some setups only people with roles get notified about a RB. | ||
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On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote: Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him. First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. They prefer to mention both town and scum points about each other rather than sticking to a read and explaining that one with one category of points. And they say that they wait for the other to step up his play to re-evaluate. | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
If you have an inconclusive read on a player and wait for him to post more, then you simply ignore him and keep pushing your scumread. What I see in the mentioned posts is scum stepping out to mention a few points to their mate's defense, but at the same time trying to not appear like they are defending them by mentioning scummy traits in the same posts, and leaving with no conclusion arguing that you wait for them to step up their play. | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
Your objectives are: Defend him. Position yourself in a way that you look good if you do or don't lynch him later. Don't look like you are defending him. Justify that you don't push him for being scummy. So you start writing why you won't push for his lynch at this point, yet are afraid to defend him and try to agree with the ones finding him scummy. | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
Who will you lynch first tomorrow? + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 03:27 cosmicomics wrote: I don't see why there is so much hesitation to move votes over to VisceraEyes. He didn't do anything to address my case, or take the opportunity to follow up a question concerning his #1 scum read Wade Fell Everyone in thread dismissed the VisceraEyes / Wade Fell business on the basis that the night actions would resolve the mess. What has VisceraEyes done with his time since the pressure eased off him? Why isn't he doing anything to push Wade Fell?? Wasn't he his #1 scum read? Even now, as we try to untangle this "3P mess", we see him say Not Wade Fell is scum. "Wade is ridiculous", implying that Wade Fell is town and being ridiculous. Why isn't he pushing Wade Fell as scum if he was his #1 scum read, and is now fabricating ridiculous things to push him? The most simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is that VisceraEyes is scum, jumping around from target to target to see who will latch without meaningful contribution, made up the 3P business up to sidetrack the town even more, especially since we are deep into D2 without too much consolidation after WaveofShadow claimed. VisceraEyes is scum and making crap up | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
We had a vig-mason. Town-aligned. There is a converting mason. Third party. There is Wade the mason . _____ But that would not be the only reason I support his lynch. The other reason are his reads. I never got the feeling he's pushing town agenda, all of his reads so far have been on people I wouldn't lynch, and he defends those who are scummy. It's true that VE was opportunistic D2 so we can't exclude he is 3p but scum has to fall first. | ||
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On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Depends on the night results. His behavior and actions aside, VisceraEyes' vet claim is very strong indicator that he isn't scum if it is true. The key phrase is "if it is true". Because this game has a closed setup, we do not know the nature of scum KP. There is no reason to suppose that it should go by standard precedent (in which I suspect 3 initial KP for scum), and with the flip of a role like Nightmare, I don't find it a stretch to think scum were compensated with other forms of KP. Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. If not, it's tunnel city because there is nothing aside from his claim that I see as reasonable body of evidence that he is town. How should the night actions indicate something about his alignment at all? If he's scum he won't get shot, if he's town he won't get shot cause so many want him lynched, and if he's 3p he's supposedly bulletproof. I don't see scum placing a bet on that. | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
Anyway I'll probably not stay around for much longer so I'll drop in my list of most probable scum. I am assuming that scum this time had the chance to spread their votes cause GK wasn't at real risk of getting lynched and Wiggles, VE and Ace are all town/3p imo. + Show Spoiler + Final vote count: VOTE COUNT! Day 2 ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (3): Wade Fell (0): Mr. Wiggles (3): zarepath (0): WaveofShadow (0): VisceraEyes (6): cosmicomics , cosmicomics (0): TestSubject893 (0): Mocsta (1): glurio Coagulation (0): Vivax (1): Kenpachi Ace (8): Mr. Wiggles, goodkarma , DoYouHas , VisceraEyes, TranceStorm , geript, ThePeashooter, Mocsta, DarthPunk Voting is compulsory Please label who you are unvoting, it makes it easier for me. | ||
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In all courtesy, I hope someone takes care of you tonight. | ||
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I will actually take a look at Wiggles again just to make sure, but I've been fairly confident he's town so far. I'm also starting to doubt my scum read on cosmicomics although I find him mentioning scum KP kinda scummy. Still think Wade is scum cause I don't think town has 2 masons and scum 0 + I feel he is pushing agenda. | ||
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