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+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 06:27 sciberbia wrote:
I liked Vivax's analysis for the mostpart. Several of his conclusions line up with mine. I agree that the people that joined the GreyMist wagon very late are not as concerning as the people that joined it in the middle. Of course this is predicated on the fact that zarepath is scum, which may or may not be true.
Also, I was very happy to see Keirathi is replacing in. I'm sure Ace and Mocsta are cool too, although I have never played with them before. Welcome all.
You are awesome <3. Hope some protective role thinks about you tonight, you have the stuff to win the game for town.
Anyway, I think the fact that people who join in late are less suspicious is general, cause it's independent from others being scum. Scum will always look better on another wagon no matter on who it is as long as it isn't the townie being mislynched. Best is when scum sits on other scum while a townie gets lynched obviously, but I'm not expecting it in this case given how zarepath was under fire.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because you didn't do the work yourself, you let others push the wagon for you. You just made the (bad) case that got him lynched. And it's not a lie that you weren't here, you weren't here. That's the context that I use "lurker" not that you were here watching it all go down. When I said "you lurked" I meant "you weren't here" which is NOT a lie, it's a fact.
Anyway, you can say I'm taking your pressure vote too seriously. That's fine. Your post explicitly states that you think he could be scum and that his interaction with GreY looked "forced" and that's reasoning for thinking someone is scum. Honestly you can try and "spin" that however you want, but it's explicit in your post. People need only read it to see the truth.
I'm sick and tired of people that I accuse simply going "NO U". It's really annoying.
VE it's not true his case was bad when a lot of people agreed with it. Just cause it was on town doesn't mean this dude is scum, it means that Greymist played looking scummy and others noticed, and Ryu had the hammer.
However it sure gave scum a good opportunity to jump on it and I find it really really strange that you pick on the guy starting a bandwagon in such way when there are people who joined in ways inconsistent with their former scumreads and with weak reasoning. Go look them up in my big post, I've summarized two of those people there.
Still gotta look at TPS and GK's filters and maybe think about who could be scum aside from glurio, but I've got a beer in and am a little tired so I don't promise anything. My case stands, please take a look at it and evaluate the reads in it.
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On March 19 2013 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:Vivax to put it as Mocsta would: Your logical fallacy is Appeal to Popularity. Just because a lot of people agreed with it doesn't mean it's a good case. It's an EFFECTIVE case in that it convinced a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that the points are valid.
Then you should have convinced people of it being bad before GM got lynched, in accordance with your stronger scumread DP. Calling Ryu scummy cause of his (posthoc bad) case after GM got lynched is easy when you know his alignment now, and where did your DP read go anyway?
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Also my scumreads still didn't provide reads on Zarepath they seem to not want to play transparently for town.
TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively.
I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 07:43 glurio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 07:20 Vivax wrote:
Also my scumreads still didn't provide reads on Zarepath they seem to not want to play transparently for town.
TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively.
I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. Well i find zares obsession with finding out the smurfs identity quite odd. It doesn't help anyone at this point. What do you make of Ryu, vivax?
I don't care about Ryu I care about the other 4 guys stop dodging my questions on purpose before you ask some, thanks (also I already talked about him so you should actually know if you read my posts).
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Medic goes to sciberbia or me, sciberbia if he's unsure cause the guy has wits.
I've decided to extend my case with the other guys, rejoice!
Also, in case of my death (and other guys) PLEASE, please look at my posts. Too many times people don't do that. Look at who I read as town, who I read as scum, who read me as what. People disregard it as WIFOM but it's all valuable information in getting behind scum's thought process.
Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo.
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Anyway I've decided that I'm pissed off by how scum responded to my case unpunished by fellow townies so I've decided to awake the sleeping half-drunk dragon in me and finish them off with some more bombastic reads from good old crazy Vivax.
+ Show Spoiler +Before they kill me in a horrible way
I'll start with those with small filters and probably be a little more vague on TPS cause he seems to be the more active sort of scum but it looks like the kind who tends to slip so you will catch him sooner or later.
So first, part 1 to the scumwnage: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=37#728
GOODKARMA YO
(This will be easy)
Ok, part 1 of this post he replies to this regarding grey:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 02:46 Coagulation wrote:
The sast thing was clearly a joke. It was like an hour into day 1 and there was no one posting. You can just expect to be nailing scum 1 hour into day 1 when 90% of players havnt posted. thats fucking absurd. so omg someone makes a joke post to pass the time. Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey.
As we see GK rides an attack against Coag along with Glurio - click for link (soft one Look at dem TPS and Zarepath reads) and TPS at the time (surprise suprise)
His own points against Coag are that he doesn't post scumreads and it's unclear as to why he refers to Coag as policy lynch. It seems like good town atmosphere for GK is to discuss policy lynches he defines himself as such cause a guy didn't post his scumreads, but let's look at the next post.
Next he comments a little on Grey, posts very little..seems detached.Well ok nothing we can say against that it's the next part where it gets juicy.
Wiggles calls him out for it (rightfully) and says he pressures Coag for not posting scumreads but GK didn't provide anything himself, and calls Coag scummy for not giving reads, refuses to give reads himself and referred to Coag as policy lynch, so judge for yourself.
Then, there's this question to Ryu which seems unlikely as scum to scum question so it was one of the reasons I dismissed Ryu for now, I already mentioned this in my previous case post (hi stutters).
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote:Regarding Grey:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 04:10 layabout wrote:
since it looks like you mightn't get an answer would you care to share your read on grey? I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 04:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote:On March 17 2013 02:46 Coagulation wrote:
The sast thing was clearly a joke. It was like an hour into day 1 and there was no one posting. You can just expect to be nailing scum 1 hour into day 1 when 90% of players havnt posted. thats fucking absurd. so omg someone makes a joke post to pass the time. Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum.I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. What are your own reads for scum? You've mentioned twice the need to scumhunt, and here you're chiding Coag for not providing anything in regards to who he thinks is scum, when you yourself have done the same. It's just more of the same general game play talk with no actual stances taken in regards to your own opinions. ##Vote: goodkarmaConvince me you're not scum. Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 04:28 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote:
Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is.
Keep up the good work gents. On March 16 2013 22:30 sandroba wrote:
Update: Greymist is suspicious. On March 16 2013 22:40 GreYMisT wrote:On March 16 2013 22:30 sandroba wrote:
Update: Greymist is suspicious. Do you disagree with the point that I made? On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote:
Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. I find this interaction forced-there seems to be something off about how sandroba and greymist confront each other here. I wouldn't even call it confronting, really. I dislike sandroba more for the lack of reasoning, but I think it could be possible they are both mafia. ##vote sandroba Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style?
ALRIGHT, next interesting post.
We see GK sets himself up for the common bandwagons in this post when the time seems ripe. He also soft defends TPS like most of the other guys I mentioned. Oh, you.
Why is it suspicious? Most people were kinda sold on their own targets and consolidated later for lack of a common agreement, on Greymist after Ryu's post. They did so after pushing for their own lynch and asking their targets questions. GK however seems to be switching from target to target, but with very low pressure or pushing between them.
He said Coag is scummy, he didn't post a case nor ask questions.
He said GM was detached etc. etc., no case and no questions.
He said Wiggles was scummy and that it's not OMGUS, no ____ and no ______
Now he's back to GM!Surprise! He also seems fine with DP. What a coincidence zarepath and cosmicomics too!
Need I say more?
+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 08:23 layabout wrote:goodkarma are you suspicious of VE or was the red text just there for kicks? also why do you feel the need to OMGUS Wiggles then try to deflect attention towards lurkers and those who are absent? On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote:
-snip-
@Mr. Wiggles:
-snip-
But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy...
-snip-
I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle.
On March 17 2013 13:52 goodkarma wrote:
Well, here it comes... The promised post. While I don't know if it can live up to everyone's expectations, I'll do my best. These are the people I've currently focused my attention on.:
Greymist
First off, go through Greymist's filter and here's your challenge: find a game he's played in that is a serious one (e.g. non-caller) he solo played. I found one hydra game, and a caller game, but those aren't exactly helpful in this context. Hence why I asked. I'm 99% sure that people just spewed out the accusation I was too lazy to search without even thinking to look themselves, because that's their level of fucking lazy... I sifted through the 10 pages and couldn't find anything...
Greymist is someone that has contributed nothing of value to date. What little he has said seems to be either completely not relevant to the game, general agreement to remarks made, or concern about being accused in the case of sandroba. He hasn't stuck his neck out at all, and is currently on my scumlist. He is my top scumread, as unlike some other lurker-type players, he's had ample opportunity to contribute and every time he's opted to provide nothing of value.
##Vote: Greymist
Darthpunk
Darthpunk is someone whose play I know can be stellar as both town and scum, yet currently I'm leaning towards scum. He has been lurking the thread rather hard, which is uncharacteristic of both his town and scum play. Yet what little he has said just doesn't make sense to me as town. He seems content to lynch the first (trolly) thing that moves (gerupt), and then to not followup in thread at all... This is definitely not pro-town, and I'm leaning scum on him, but I'd really like to see more from him. It's the biggest reason I've been trying to wait before giving scumreads, because I was really expecting more from him.
Peashooter
When it comes to thepeashooter, I was in general agreement with blazinghand's case. However, what sticks out to me is that instead of backing down, he's decided to maintain his case against coagulation. This is not the kind of move I'd expect from scum, as all it does is have him keeping his neck stuck out in general view. It would have been much easier for him (as scum) to move to a popular target and hide behind him. As such, I'm inclined to not vote for him this cycle and give him a chance. This is not a wagon I plan to get behind.
Sandroba
Finally, there's Sandroba. What worries me most about Sandroba is that lurking the shit out of thread is a scumtell for him. I'm thinking specifically of the scumgame he had in chrono trigger mafia, the only game I've personally played with him. There, past a certain point, he kind of just completely gave up trying. If he can't contribute any further by the deadline, my vote will likely switch to him.
It ends with these two in quick succession (no questions or anything between them, common pattern) and I'm not commenting on more actually. My fingers itch and are tired from my big cases today, I need to go for glurio now. Use your own judgement, I only provide the right lenses.
On March 17 2013 15:42 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:28 GreYMisT wrote:
Here is something for the rest of you to think about.
What is a towns objective when making a case? In my eyes it is not to say someone is scum; it must go deeper than that.
You job is to display why the actions you have noted make sense from a scum perspective, and don't make sense from a town perspective. The reason you need to do this, aside from the obvious, is that scum can have a very hard time actually finding and pointing out pure scum motivations.
In his cases, GK really has not done any of this. He has posted things that are indicative of both poor scum play and poor town play. "Pure scum motivations," as in your case against me? Over half the players would qualify as "easy" "lurker-lynches" right now. Yet you seem to completely overlook this... My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. That leaves Sandro, for whom lurking specifically matches with his scum meta. And that is why he stands out above the other "lurkers." There are literally only a handful of people right now who are active (none of which I have a scumread on), so if you choose to hold against me that I'm choosing "easy targets" on that grounds then I'd say you're being a bit ridiculous. I'm following my top scumreads. Tbh, I don't care if you think they're easy. Anyhow:
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba
On March 18 2013 05:18 goodkarma wrote:
Briefly discussing some thoughts on the new suspects in the flurry of posts that have appeared since last night:
Regarding DarthPunk:
Darthpunk is definitely looking scummy right now. I understand where VisceraEyes is coming from in his case, and I generally agree with his points. One point I don't agree on though, is DP's defense of me. I understand where he's coming from there, and I attribute it to the several games we've played together.
And yes, VisceraEyes you can feel free to jump all over this as a soft defense or yada yada... But I know what DarthPunk's capable of if he actually is town, and there's enough doubt in my mind right now as to if he's scum that I'd really rather not lynch him day one. If he's town, it's an absolute waste. Further, if he's scum I'm confident I could spot it in later days. Ironically, this is pretty similar to the reasoning he used for me. But as of right now, I would say he indeed is scummy for the reasons you've mentioned.
Regarding Grey:
I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.:
##Unvote
##Vote: Grey
I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
GLURIO JA
Well basically the post I linked is a strong point imo but I'm also least sure about this guy cause his filter is small, he defended many people who I think are townies (me included) although he did give my top scumreads slack. He sheeped on the DP wagon and left, just now popped in and asked me a question with its answer in my filter without answering mine and disappeared. So I feel like he could be a decent fifth scum but first of all:
1.Lynch Zarepath
2. Lynch Cosmicomics
3. Lynch GK
4. Lynch TPS
5. (lynch glurio)
Reevaluate after their flips, there's a lot of time. It doesn't look like there's vets among them and I don't know how DrH balances his setups but in case of doubt assume he randomed.
These guys all are unwilling to give out reads on each other and some of them started to attack zarepath only after I posted my huge case (and after asking veeery unrelated questions and disappearing, just TPS and zare stayed around acting pretty weird), see it and believe it.
Alright, I hope I'll be around tomorrow and not dead. If I die, you can imagine why (hint: Not WIFOM)
<3 town
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On March 18 2013 09:49 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 08:51 zarepath wrote:On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote:On March 17 2013 06:16 layabout wrote:On March 17 2013 05:51 cosmicomics wrote:On March 16 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote:
Sandro:
I don't like this post.
Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red.
What does town sandro look like? What do you think of DarthPunk? You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly?
##Vote: DarthPunk
At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote:
Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far.
Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum.
The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him.
I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk.
##Vote: DarthPunk Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? I tried to actually see if sciberbia got something wrong here, but upon checking it's true. Zarepath said that he found DP's entrance post scummy later on, but expressed doubts towards thinking he's scum later (30 minutes) for an early vote. I agree that this is inconsistent. Upon rereading Zarepath I actually realized my read might be wrong. I noticed another inconsistency: + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 06:19 geript wrote:On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote:
And one final thought: sciberbia was quick to point out that VE's tarot cards and Peashooter's speculation aren't that scummy (but I disagree and say they are more scummy than anything else so far, btw), and VE makes a good point in response: On March 16 2013 18:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Interesting. Out of everyone who has posted, you are by far the most verbose. I expect you will be equally verbose when describing things you DO find scummy. First off, I dislike the fact that you mix up my tarot card thoughts and place them on VE. The thing that doesn't make sense to me whatsoever is how this post flows. I'm not seeing the jump in logic between either the setup speculation being scummy Or how VE's post leads directly from that. It's a subtle transition from X+Y are scummy into it's useless. Then yoy transfer into: On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote:
So in the end, I currently have my eyes on Coagulation, Peashooter, VE, and sciberbia. I will take a more serious look at geript later. I'm not getting the logic jump here either. There isn't any real reason listed. There's no reason to expect to be able to jump straight to fucking without a little foreplay. How do you explain this Zare? Why make a nothing post?
I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1.I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote:
I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit.
It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed.
But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. TPS was basically one of the first setup speculators but he somehow preferred geript over him as scumread and never tried to pressure or interact with TPS (despite Wade being loud and hammering him, so he must have seen that going on in the thread). I'm sold on hopping on the zarepath bandwagon, alternatively.
Also, the last point is relevant if Zare flips red, this post is from much earlier.
WoS why should I take medicine against huge dumps it's much better than mental diarrhea.
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On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now.
What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting.
FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me.
Why do you refer to your play as poor though?
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Why do you post a list of all your reads when your only argument should be to get scum lynched if you are town.
Bring the arguments against Wiggles and TranceStorm then. Bring other reads when you use them for association or to stop pressure on townreads.
You also forgot to include previous arguments you used to say GK played scummy in your list, why do you forget your own arguments for saying people might be scum and instead say he's just scummy for activity now? Others are far less active.
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OK took a quick look at BH's mason logs didn't finish them yet cause I noticed something first.
BAD news: Looks like one of my reads was wrong, is it you who is town TPS? Maybe rather glurio?
GOOD news: BH likely scum, I have evidence that the logs are faked.
As you see, BH talks about hosts dragging their feet setting up the mason qt. Since the message can't have been a PM (you see the Edit Delete?) it's clear it was written in another qt. Not hard to guess which one.
+ Show Spoiler +
Edit
Delete
Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive.
In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of.
Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta.
The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking.
Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now.
I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-17-2013
08:52 PM ET (US)
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Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game.
##Vote WadeFell
huehuehueheuheuehueheuheu
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It's obvious BH is a mason, so it doesn't make VE automatically scum. It just means that part of the logs with GK have been written in the scum qt and the D1 masoning was fake, the others could be real.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote:
I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them.
im gonna vote ThePeashooter.
did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard.
vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly".
Given how layabout calls this obvious slip stupid, but was pretty quick to damn me for a slip that wasn't one earlier, I'm now also suspicious of him.
Layabout why do you call cosmic out of all players to look at this?
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Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light.
Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo.
Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably.
Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum?
On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 01:46 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote:Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light.Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. Misread this first point, VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs.
If they use the same qt for all masons it still doesn't mean anything.
The evidence is that that first post had been written somewhere else and wasn't a PM.
Of course, I am aware BH might say it was a PM he pasted there afterwards, but it was obvious there had been some sort of other communication between the two before that post got exchanged. Their conversation can't have started with such a PM.
So it means that, if BH argues it was a pasted PM, then there is communication between them he didn't post, and it means that he deliberately only posted a part of it, a part that puts them in good light and lets them appear like they're scumhunting, we completely miss the first PM's between them, if there ever were any.
Also, usually you reply to PM directly with a reply button, so if it was a PM we should see the quotes of the previous PM's he replied to, and that's not the case.
Se yeah, that shit is fabricated.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 01:59 zarepath wrote:
Also, PMs are against the rules. So BH had to have been in some form of communication with SOMEONE in order for that first sentence to mean anything. It sounds like the QT wasn't even up, so who was he talking to and in what sphere?
Are PM's against the rules for masons? If that's the case then that post was 100 % from another qt.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 02:13 layabout wrote:
It would literally be more productive for you both to bash your faces off of your keyboards than to pursue this train of thought.
Argue why it wasn't a slip then. What is the "here" he posts that post in if he says in the same line that the hosts are taking their time with the mason qt?
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On March 20 2013 01:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok found it.
It's the timestamps that bother me.
Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them.
Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means
a) they were planning in the scum QT
b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null)
c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later.
The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here.
Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think.
It's hard to argue with the timestamps people need different times to write. In chats however they can be indicative somehow.
What I find suspicious is that they seem to talk about their own stuff but not really question each other to find out if the other guy is scum.
When I invited gonzaw to my shipdeck in Themed game (I was captain Picard lol) I immediately got him into a chat and started asking him quick questions to get a feeling about his alignment.
In the chat between BH and GK we don't see any of that, they are like: I think this guy and this guy is scum and here's why, gonna push him with this and that, thoughts? Kthxbye was a pleasure.
In the chat between VE and BH we see instead that VE is way more direct to BH and also says he suspects him:
VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:59 PM ET (US)
To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though.
Can you go into detail about your read on TPS?
VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:40 AM ET (US)
It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude.
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TPS defending yourself is secondary, first of all you should argue why someone is a better lynch choice than you. It's very hard to get rid of scumreads of you just by defense at later stages.
If you looked into my cases and pick one that you like instead of bitching so much about others being stupid and not speaking english you could probably achieve more.
You've done nothing but defending yourself lately and you said at night that you found some stuff about zarepath weird yet I don't see anything indicating that you're interested in lynching anyone.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet.
What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim?
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I have another theory: OP says your win condition can change. Maybe scum needs to know the role name of the player to convert him to them.
Or scum can kill a guy if they know the name like TPS said early.
Keep it to yourself.
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EPT
