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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 20 2013 23:56 GMT
#1879
Now as per the WoS reveal that he is the rolecop. I don't still don't trust him, but this means that I should vote elsewhere today. If he truly is the rolecop, then the mafia cannot afford to let him live in the next couple of days.

Incidentally, this means that I was completely wrong on TPS, who cannot be scum, given that:
a) if WoS is the cop, then obviously TPS is town and
b).if WoS is lying, TPS was one of the first to jump onto WoS, which I doubt mafia would do so quickly.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 20 2013 23:56 GMT
#1881
@Vivax, hold up. I'm dealing with the 'flavor of the day' issues at the moment!
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 00:28 GMT
#1907
@Vivax I looked through your cases on the 3 players you listed Zarepath, GK, and cosmi, and I don't see why they are stronger candidates than my #3 lynch target Wiggles?

Speaking of which where is Wiggles and why has he not responded to any of the events of the day?
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 00:30 GMT
#1908
On March 21 2013 09:15 Vivax wrote:
As pointed out with the Bureaucreacy slip in the qt, The Mirror is probably layabout. This also is displayed by his lack of involvement in the game and certain anti-town traits I noticed.

I am still confident zarepath, GK and cosmicomics are scum. However, as I see it as of now there are the 2 wildcards I mentioned earlier:
Given Trancestorm's latest entrance and a look at his filter I feel he is a good candidate for one of the spots, in the other spot I see fitting either Coag, WF or kita. Coag obviously the guy I'm least sure about.

Fairly confident in saying that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon currently, and VE is grasping at the most likely lynch according to common opinions to save his own hide right now.

I disagree with your assessment that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon. Imagine that you are scum member, and the leading lynch target is a vet who is getting flak for apparently converting into a 3rd party. You don't need to push any wagon in that situation! Just spread your votes around in that situation and you'll come out smelling like roses as you weren't involved in any mislynch.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 00:40 GMT
#1914
Wiggles is my preferred candidate at the moment. Call it sheeping or whatever you'd like, but I strongly oppose the VE lynch and therefore defer to my next best lynch candidate Wiggles. The fact that he hasn't come back since the events is super-problematic for me.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 00:48 GMT
#1925
On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.

"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.

Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz

Unvote
Vote: Coagulation

This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 01:11 GMT
#1933
On March 21 2013 09:54 Vivax wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.

"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.

Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz

Unvote
Vote: Coagulation

This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion.


It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively.
And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention.

You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players.

Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day.

Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 01:36 GMT
#1950
On March 21 2013 10:15 Vivax wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 21 2013 10:11 TranceStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 09:54 Vivax wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.

"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.

Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz

Unvote
Vote: Coagulation

This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion.


It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively.
And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention.

You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players.

Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day.

Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach.


No, being on the mislynch wagon with a load of other townies is no risk for them. Each of the townies on the wagon can't accuse them of that without accusing themselves, and outside townies can't accuse them without accusing other townies, it's the perfect example of blending in.

You can be accused of your reasons to switch to it/join it, but not of pushing it or being on it.

Sure, that is one approach for blending in. Behaving in the way that I have outlined is also another approach for blending in as well. In the one game I have played where I was mafia (a long time ago), everyone spread their votes between candidates. That is to say, scum won't all behave in the way that you have outlined. My argument is that you have behaved in the way that I have outlined and are worthy of a vote in the next day cycle.

Anyways, I'll have to do a bit of work, but I'll be back in roughly 2 hours.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 04:32 GMT
#2108
Holy hell. Where were you to post that case a few hours ago Wiggles? Its certainly the best case I've seen yet for this lynch -> Ace has done next to nothing this game besides post a few vague suspicions and jump onto the VE lynch. The most damning evidence I've seen yet, as Wiggles points out, is the fact that Ace says "We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.", but does no analysis or anything else during the entire day! Voting for VE certainly cannot have been too taxing on his part, why not help the town out?
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 04:35 GMT
#2115
On March 21 2013 13:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 13:32 TranceStorm wrote:
Holy hell. Where were you to post that case a few hours ago Wiggles? Its certainly the best case I've seen yet for this lynch -> Ace has done next to nothing this game besides post a few vague suspicions and jump onto the VE lynch. The most damning evidence I've seen yet, as Wiggles points out, is the fact that Ace says "We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.", but does no analysis or anything else during the entire day! Voting for VE certainly cannot have been too taxing on his part, why not help the town out?

This is the scummiest shit I've ever seen.
I am convinced no one in this game knows how to play town or something.

Really? How is Ace defensible? What's wrong with Wiggles' case against him?
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 04:38 GMT
#2118
On March 21 2013 13:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 13:35 TranceStorm wrote:
On March 21 2013 13:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
On March 21 2013 13:32 TranceStorm wrote:
Holy hell. Where were you to post that case a few hours ago Wiggles? Its certainly the best case I've seen yet for this lynch -> Ace has done next to nothing this game besides post a few vague suspicions and jump onto the VE lynch. The most damning evidence I've seen yet, as Wiggles points out, is the fact that Ace says "We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.", but does no analysis or anything else during the entire day! Voting for VE certainly cannot have been too taxing on his part, why not help the town out?

This is the scummiest shit I've ever seen.
I am convinced no one in this game knows how to play town or something.

Really? How is Ace defensible? What's wrong with Wiggles' case against him?

It had nothing to do with Ace being defensible or Wiggles' case, it's your shameless +1 without adding anything at all.
'HAY GUYS DIS CASE RL GOOD I SHOW U WHY' and then you literally repeat what is in Wriggle's post.

Which of you guys was it who found TS scummy again? I can't keep track of anything anymore in this thread.

Because the case is really good. As a town member, my job is to pick the best person to vote for. I've seen the best case and so I vote with it. It's stupid to obstinately hold onto your beliefs at all times and not consider changes.

There is literally zero defense in this thread or anywhere for Ace. I don't understand why others aren't voting that way.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 04:47 GMT
#2123
Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 21 2013 04:57 GMT
#2135
On March 21 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 13:47 TranceStorm wrote:
Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote.

OK, reason with me

Why is my TestSubject case, less valid than Ace

My case is predicated on in-game behaviour.. that captures scum mentality.

Wiggles case is meta.. on a guy, who rarely plays anymore, and is more than capable of "changing it up"

Ok, I'll reason with you.

Your TestSubject case, while compelling has a couple of assumptions that might be flawed. For example, you articulate that TestSubject's vote on GM was based on scummy reasoning: "all martyrs are scum -> GM is scum". However, I don't think that bad reasoning equates to scummy reasoning, hell, there has been plenty of bad reasoning throughout the entire day, and both you and I have been guilty of it. I fail to see the 'scummy agenda' behind the vote.

Whereas in Ace's case - there is no debate needed about scummy reasoning or what not. Forget about the meta arguments. The mere fact that Ace has done nothing else in the game, no reads, no pushes on anyone, nothing besides the easy job of targeting VE is more scummy than TestSubject's justification for voting for GM.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 22 2013 19:08 GMT
#2503
Hi Guys,

I'm going to be unable to play in this game because I'll have very limited (if any) internet access for the next week or so. I've asked Dr. H for a replacement as a result. I'd just like to say good luck to my replacement and to the town as well.
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