EPTThe Game [N] - Page 149
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 29 2013 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and to answer Geript, yes I still have a townread on kita; I don't really see any reason to doubt him right now despite what others have been saying---there has been no conrete evidence of a scum kita. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
Day 1 - You point out wishy-washyness towards zarepath. This confuses me, between myself, scib, and hopeless(ace), we had come up with good points against zarepath, or at the very least points that I agreed with and said as such. When the tide seemed to be turning to a GreY lynch and I had nothing else to present to convince people, I started digging through zare's meta for new things to bring up. I tried to do so as objectively as I could, because a massive tunnel of his meta is worthless, which is why I even included a game that was over a year old and caused problems with the point I was making. I was one of the biggest pushers of a zare lynch day 1. This should answer both "Has he ever had a solid scumread." and "Was he wishy-washy on zare". I was gung-ho about a zare lynch going into day 2 but was sidetracked with both keirathi's read of town on zare and his immediate death. Soft defending BH - Yep, up until the moment he flipped I thought BH was town. Even in day 1, I thought the way he went after TPS and the way he defending GK was very much like town BH. The only thing that gave me pause about him was I didn't like the way he bullied geript. Switching to Wiggles, then to Ace - I've addressed this before. On March 22 2013 02:35 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are right that I sheeped, but you are wrong about the instance. I sheeped the Wiggles wagon because at the time I saw it as the only alternative to the VE wagon that could actually have a chance of saving VE. When I switched to Ace it was because Mr. Wiggles case won me over. I thought the case was great and was framed in a view of the game that I agreed with. The Ace wagon had all the hallmarks of 'we are about to lynch scum' that I normally look for. People with strong opinions on other candidates were being won over gradually. There was surprising initial resistance. Ace did nothing to defend himself. I screwed up, but I'm not going to rewrite my thought process to make myself look better (like Moc). I thought that Ace was the right lynch, I was wrong. In discussing the 3p in regards to VE - VE was a scum read for me before the reveal of the 3p logs. Once I read the logs and the reactions I came to the conclusion that VE had to be town revealing something to us, or he had to be scum, faking it. I spent a good amount of time trying to work out those two sides, but ended up thinking VE was town. In discussing the 3p in general - Here is where I don't understand what you are finding so scummy. The paranoia I display in thinking that the 3p is some elaborate scum scheme is a townie impulse. The attempt to try and fit the strange information and events into a coherent narrative is a townie thing to do. Neither of these things ended up being right or useful, but they weren't scummy. In fact, if my ideas had held sway what would have happened? Town would have just kept on scumhunting, only ignoring 3p. My ideas about the 3p just don't serve a scum purpose. PS: Just because I didn't think the 3p existed doesn't mean I was going to eliminate the possibility completely, hence the considerations I gave in my lists of reads. Lists of reads - My hope in posting my long lists of reads was that 1-2 things would happen. 1. People I had a town read on and had a town read on me would work with me in hunting scum. 2. People would object to my reads and that would give me a starting point in a discussion with them. Neither of these things really happened. Yet another disappointment. Layabout - I called layabout The Mirror, which I thought to be a scum role. Which means that this statement, "DYH's final efforts before disappearing for the day have been a push on layabout, calling him 3rd party despite the fact that he didn't originally believe the role existed (or was that just to protect BH? I guess he can't get his stories straight).", is just you talking out of your ass (IE. tunneling). Had I checked the thread after the 3p was confirmed I would have switched off of laya onto kita. My inactivity - I know I have been doing town no favors with my lack of posting, and a meta read on me would suggest that less posting = more scummy. I have been busy and I have been tired and I have been disheartened. I don't have any particularly good excuse for my play today or yesterday. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Top scumreads and why? Your refutation of my points against you regarding your D1 play: what are your current thoughts on zare? Did you read my case on him at all? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
You're of no use to us if you can't give us something concrete and why. No sheeping, no WIFOM. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
We can't have votes all spread out like this. WoS, what is your current read on glurio? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 30 2013 08:02 glurio wrote: DYH is a crap lynch, only people who will support you on that are scum like ryu, WoS. *slowclap* wonderful defense. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Glurio what you have done today requires no effort. What Ryu has done today requires no effort. What TPS has done today requires no effort. What Kenpachi has done today requires no effort. And the list goes on and fucking ON. IF YOU PEOPLE ARE TOWN THEN THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE TO INACTIVITY, LACK OF READS WITH EXPLANATIONS AND LACK OF CRITICAL THOUGHT WITH 8 HOURS TO LYLO. If you find my case bad or good, FUCKING EXPLAIN WHY. Give the town something to work with, goddamnit. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Let's examine the roleblock scenario if there is a scum roleblocker. N1: Roleblock Keirathi (couldn't be VE because he would likely be dead if roleblocks work as in normal games). I would like to point out again that this choice of actions makes zero sense. There's no reason to RB Keirathi IMO. N2: Roleblock WoS N3: Roleblock WoS N4: Roleblock WoS. This action makes zero sense either as DP's post pretty much said ignore any red check claim from WoS. More importantly, TestSubject had claimed Vigilante. If you're in a good position as scum are you going to risk allowing a claimed Vigilante who hit scum once to have a second shot if it's possible? Point 2. WIFOM Deadguy stuff If you don't trust me on the matter, then you really should listen to these guys: + Show Spoiler [sciberbia] + On March 21 2013 10:48 sciberbia wrote: on WoS His blueclaim does not affect my opinion on his alignment. I still think he is pretty likely to be scum, but I am willing to wait to see if he is still alive tomorrow, which I think he will be. On March 21 2013 11:12 sciberbia wrote: I have read every page of the thread at least once, and I do in fact have major doubts about your claim, as I just said. Maybe I'm wrong though. We'll see D3 I guess. On March 21 2013 12:14 sciberbia wrote: @WoS I did read the thread and I know you claim to have investigated TPS. Which is why it's odd to me that you bring him up as useless and say you "read" him as town when if you are a cop then you know for a fact he is town. Anyway, you are not the lynch today so I'm dropping this. On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote: Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar. If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched. + Show Spoiler [DarthPunk] + On March 28 2013 14:01 DarthPunk wrote: Read kita's and Ryu's filters and tell me what you think. Tell me what you think of kita's zero interaction with Blazing hand. + Show Spoiler [TestSubject983] + On March 27 2013 12:28 TestSubject893 wrote: Well this throws a wrench in things. I was all ready to come back and stack on cosmic since no one believes me that WoS is obviously scum.... I don't see any reason not to believe him since layabout isn't objecting. I guess its possible that they're both scum. Its also possible that they actually are gonna get some KP later and are just lying. Hmmm.... gotta think about this. On March 26 2013 01:24 TestSubject893 wrote: Its ok for you to play terrible because you're gonna get RBed? That's your excuse? Not gonna cut it. I've never seen anyone but scum express this sentiment. I don't know why'd you'd say this as town. On March 26 2013 01:13 TestSubject893 wrote: You've played exactly like a scum would if they fake claimed, so if you're town you've only got yourself to blame for us mislynching today. ##Vote: WaveofShadow As scum, there's direct incentive to remove players who are making sense and players who are on the right track. There are 3 dead guys who wanted to lynch WoS. How does that read to you? Point 3. Next let's look at Day 2 when Wave came under pressure: What's his direct response to pressure? This: On March 20 2013 09:53 WaveofShadow wrote: I progressively find him (Wiggles) scummier as the day progresses and he accomplishes dick all. I could of course go into more detail if you wish, but then you'd still just call that voting based on town sentiment. Would you rather I just pick someone at random who hasn't been suspected so far just for shits to make you feel better? I see Mr. Wiggles as scum right now and that's where my vote is. AT least until such times as he comes back and proves to the town that he's not useless, throwing mediocre suspicions all over the place and being generally non-comittal. That's right he voted for Wiggles. Wiggles already had a wagon started on him with Zarepath, GK and VE voting for him. Is there any reasoning behind why Wiggles is scum? No, this is just a deflection towards a lurker. Point 4. He voted with his scum reads on the deflection onto WIggles: + Show Spoiler [VE is scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok looking at the cosmic case on VE, there are a few things that are reaching just a little bit, but overall the inconsistencies pointed out in VE's play are pretty damning. Even more damning may be the fact that VE returns to the thread and completely ignores the (clearly good) case on him without trying to defend any of the points made on these inconsistencies, rather he just adds another post weakly pushing BH again. I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time. GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this: which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. On March 20 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: K glurio. GL buddy. I'll look into cosmic's VE case again, but in the end I think it just makes me assume that one of either VE or BH has to be scum. The super hard defense of GK by BH makes me think if he's scum then likely GK is too btu I don't know how likely that is, despite my conspiracy theory and the QT 'scumslip.' Speaking of which I remember harboring concerns about VE's town circle earlier on D1, but now we're on D2 and we haven't heard anything. Was it a joke or what? + Show Spoiler [BH+GK scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote: You misunderstand. I said it's more likely for BH/GK logs to be faked than BH/VE, if you read my case. I also never said they faked the logs entirely, I assume by the timestamps that they were actually using the mason QT but it is a possibility they are using the scum QT to discuss what to put in the mason QT in case they had to show logs. Much like my conspiracy theory-type posts from LX, I can perfectly understand if people think they're retarded, but I think it's at least worth consideration. On March 20 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright there we go, so there goes one of cosmic's points against you...that wasn't so hard. The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience: Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked? Point 5. He treats BH and VE differently Despite being back and forth as to who is scum (at first he's thinking BH+GK are scum, then he agrees that VE looks scummy, then he's back to BH+GK), The main thing that you'll really notice about this whole exchange is how in the whole time he doesn't really attack or pressure BH in any way. As a matter of fact, he takes the softball approach with BH: On March 20 2013 06:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Also I feel that CC is the one who should be doing this right now. Looking forward to see what DYH adds later on. Ohai BH! What say you about the VE case? Whereas on VE he's far more direct: On March 20 2013 05:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok, but the point remains. Were you or were you not saying your case was weak without the mason logs? If you have the mason logs available to you now, what has changed? Let's look at his record for votes for the day: Wiggles, then VE then GK. That's right, despite thinking and saying this: I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. He still manages to never vote for BH. As town, the logical thing to do would be to if one of VE or BH are scum is to pick a side, in the worst you can get a Vig to shoot the other. You learn very little if GK is town as BH could still be scum and VE could still be town. Point 6. N4/D5 progression. WoS ends the night with this. On March 28 2013 14:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Ryu is slightly more questionable but I don't think kita is scum; this hasn't changed for me. There are a lot of people who have not interacted with other people in the thread whatsoever either, just because BH-kita is one example does not make him scum. I don't see you having interacted with DYH at all despite you calling him scum. You also haven't interacted with Kenpachi. What does that mean? Note the subtle attempt to discredit. "Uhh, I don't think that non-interaction is scummy, but why haven't you interacted with XYZ people?" He starts off D5 with a weak case on Zarepath. Then when people don't respond and I shoot it down, he moves his vote onto DYH. Next and MOST IMPORTANTLY Kita posts two cases, the first on Glurio+ Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: Glurio I already outlined a case against Glurio, but that was a couple days ago so I'll update based on the events of the last few days. Case for reference: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 03:46 kitaman27 wrote: For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow. First I want to highlight the following post: When I listed glurio and CC as my top scum reads, glurio responded with the above question. A scum glurio would very well know that I would have no explanation, even though both players would be anti-town. He tries to tie his alignment to the alignment of another player to make me question my reads. Notice the wording of this post. After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game. In his soft-defense of BH, he disregards any notion of potentially voting for him, but doesn't provide any reasoning why. Last cycle glurio expresses his suspicion of layabout, yet now he has failed to even bring him up, shifting his suspicion towards myself and ryu. Why post suspicion of a player without following through with it, unless you want to create distance from a player in case one of you two flip. Look how glurio attacks WoS's checks, but refuses to actually call him scummy. He calls the checks terrible, yet never states what conclusion he comes to based on the checks. What point is there to cast suspicion on a player that you have a town read? glurio is playing the classic backseat mafia role. He has no interest in attracting any attention, being involved in any arguments or pushing any lynches. If I had to pick one word to characterize his play, it would be "safe". I can't find one post that shows glurio feels strongly about a single issue He votes for a player on day one with two other votes. He votes for a player on day two with zero other votes. Rather than scum hunting, he is hunting for players to vote for that will keep him out of the spotlight. Notice in his defense post about how his wasn't around for the second half of either cycle. Instead of pushing his lynch, his is throwing down his vote and returning 24 hours later to find out who flipped. glurio is scum On March 29 2013 10:01 kitaman27 wrote: People are all giving layabout a free pass due to his third party conversion and his attack on BH. The important thing to remember is that on day two his alignment changed. Comparing his play from day one to day two, the part the stands out is that his attacks on BH don't start until he becomes third party. On day one he doesn't mention BH, yet after being converted he suddenly wants BH lynched. Look how flippy floppy layabout is with his lynch target on day four. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he is just voting for the player that is most likely to have the most votes. He calls DP scum, then turns around and votes with DP. A third party player who was originally town would want a scum lynch since it would mean that if he was ever converted back, he would be in a better position. A third party player that was originally mafia would simply push whatever option was available. layabout is scum As town if you have a town read on someone + Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and to answer Geript, yes I still have a townread on kita; I don't really see any reason to doubt him right now despite what others have been saying---there has been no conrete evidence of a scum kita. On March 29 2013 02:42 WaveofShadow wrote: So we're at LYLO, we're completely in the dark as to what's going on with last night's resolution of actions and we have 8 posts total in almost 12 hours. So at LYLO, you completely ignore your town read's posts and instead go off on another tangents. That is not consistent with town play. Point 7. Everything is wrong with this post. On March 29 2013 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not 100% sure of zarepath; I tried to generate discussion with my case which didn't seem to really happen. I'm not 100% sure of anyone today. I'm very surprised that DP was actually able to pick out that zare was my investigation target for last night; I'm not entirely sure how he did it since I didn't base any of my earlier investigation targets on who I was mainly targeting during the day. I'm especially interested because it must mean that DP has some solid insights into my play and perhaps the play of others, except for the whole fact that, ya know, I'm not scum. I was also debating a gambit where I essentially lied about being not being roleblocked in order to fake a red check on whoever my top scumread would be for the day, which may or may not have worked despite DP apparently foreseeing me doing something like that---[b]I doubt I would have been able to keep people from tunneling me if they sniffed out the lie however (ie Geript).[b] I'm going to be around for the next little bit and tomorrow as well so I will do my very best to help out in any way that I can; I'm sorry my role has been useless (and potentially harmful if TPS does in fact flip red at some point) this game. For now I vote DoYouHas because as I see it, there is absolutely no excuse for being useless at LYLO unless you want town to lose; that remains the clearest thing to me right now amidst a sea of suspicion. Vote: DoYouHas First off, notice the attempt to discredit DP. He's saying that DP both had a good read on him (knowing who he would target) and a bad read on him (he's town). More importantly, he doesn't even go on to defend or explain why he thinks DP is right or wrong about WoS, Kita or Ryu. Second off, notice how “as town” he considered lying about a red check. As town, if you think you're at LYLO, WHY LIE? There's no reason. Not only are people going to have a hard time believing you because of DP's last post, but WoS hasn't had good reads at all. He never even took a real side on the whole VE/BH “one of them must be scum” concept. Why should anyone believe him? The reason why he didn't want to do it was because there's no way we'd believe him or trust him if he did. Third, notice the subtle “don't look/tunnel me plz” comment. I cut him some rope today because I've historically thought he was scum and because glurio made a good point on it, But at this point, it's not bad townie play, it's pure malicious. Fourth, for someone who hasn't put a vote on scum or found scum or "rolechecked" scum (other than perhaps Zarepath) it's damn hypocritical to call someone else useless. That's not creating townie atmosphere; it's trying to bury someone. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright DYH, if you're here then let's get something positive from you. Top scumreads and why? Your refutation of my points against you regarding your D1 play: what are your current thoughts on zare? Did you read my case on him at all? My top scum read would be kita/ryu - Kita posted quite a few large, constructed, reasonable posts, enough to get me agreeing with him but felt like he was flying under the radar. He soft defends BH (in a more suspicious manner than me, imo). He pushes all the wrong lynches. Despite occupying the role of a big-case making analyst that for most of the game people were considering town, he is still alive. The big increase in his activity before the last lynch also bothered me. He went all out on the fake claim train when arguing against DP. Ryu is someone I hadn't taken a good look at for a while because I thought he answered my early pressure of him well and so I put my attention elsewhere. What is scummiest about Ryu to me is his incredibly narrow focus throughout the game. Spent all of day1 on GreY, moved to VE, added in DP, added in cosmic right at the end. Almost his entire filter up until the last lynch is centered around those 4 players. Now that all of them have flipped the way that he is trolling around for a new target seems scummy. I currently think zare is town, I don't remember the points you made against him off the top of my head. It was long and I was skimming. I'll go re-read. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and by the way what bothers me about your defenses of BH (which you didn't quite address) is that nowhere in your posting do you actually refer to him as town, you just hint at it little by little and avoid coming out with a read. I will admit my last point regarding layabout is probably my weakest and I'm willing to concede that (especially the association bit) with proper evidence but the fact remains that you have been spectacularly noncommittal all game, not just Day 1. You're of no use to us if you can't give us something concrete and why. No sheeping, no WIFOM. I did refer to him as town explicitly in my first set of reads right before day2. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Right now I want to focus on DYH. You didn't answer my question. Do you have a town or mafia read on glurio? I'll take a look at DYH and let you know what I think about the case. On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Right now I want to focus on DYH. Kita you have some outstanding pressure against you and I'd like to hear your responses to those people. All I see is glurio with his omgus, calling me scum without a case. Not sure what there is to respond to unless there is something else I missed? On March 30 2013 05:16 ThePeashooter wrote: Kita, what are your thoughts on Kenpachi? Kenpachi is probably the hardest person I have reading out of anyone on TL. He generally doesn't care about looking bad to others and seems to enjoy playing to his meta. I was looking through some of his past games earlier this cycle, but I've seen play like this from both alignments, so I'm pretty much at a null right now. | ||
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
Everyone can look at that btw, and lynch kita-scum! | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 30 2013 08:17 geript wrote: Point 1. The missing roleblock revisited. Let's examine the roleblock scenario if there is a scum roleblocker. N1: Roleblock Keirathi (couldn't be VE because he would likely be dead if roleblocks work as in normal games). I would like to point out again that this choice of actions makes zero sense. There's no reason to RB Keirathi IMO. N2: Roleblock WoS N3: Roleblock WoS N4: Roleblock WoS. This action makes zero sense either as DP's post pretty much said ignore any red check claim from WoS. More importantly, TestSubject had claimed Vigilante. If you're in a good position as scum are you going to risk allowing a claimed Vigilante who hit scum once to have a second shot if it's possible? Much like I pointed out in my case against DYH, you conveniently ignore possible scenarios if they don't fit your explanation. N1 they didn't necessarily have to roleblock anybody, thereby creating the suspicion against me (or whoever their eventual target would be) when it mysteriously appeared. Your point on N4 makes a lot more sense except for the fact that Test had already used his shot and they KILLED him anyway. Why RB when you can kill someone?? As far as DP is concerned, I've already mentioned (as you point out later) I applaud his prediction skills but just because he says something doesn't mean mafia have to follow it. Point 2. WIFOM Deadguy stuff If you don't trust me on the matter, then you really should listen to these guys: + Show Spoiler [sciberbia] + On March 21 2013 10:48 sciberbia wrote: on WoS His blueclaim does not affect my opinion on his alignment. I still think he is pretty likely to be scum, but I am willing to wait to see if he is still alive tomorrow, which I think he will be. On March 21 2013 11:12 sciberbia wrote: I have read every page of the thread at least once, and I do in fact have major doubts about your claim, as I just said. Maybe I'm wrong though. We'll see D3 I guess. On March 21 2013 12:14 sciberbia wrote: @WoS I did read the thread and I know you claim to have investigated TPS. Which is why it's odd to me that you bring him up as useless and say you "read" him as town when if you are a cop then you know for a fact he is town. Anyway, you are not the lynch today so I'm dropping this. On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote: Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar. If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched. + Show Spoiler [DarthPunk] + On March 28 2013 14:01 DarthPunk wrote: Read kita's and Ryu's filters and tell me what you think. Tell me what you think of kita's zero interaction with Blazing hand. + Show Spoiler [TestSubject983] + On March 27 2013 12:28 TestSubject893 wrote: Well this throws a wrench in things. I was all ready to come back and stack on cosmic since no one believes me that WoS is obviously scum.... I don't see any reason not to believe him since layabout isn't objecting. I guess its possible that they're both scum. Its also possible that they actually are gonna get some KP later and are just lying. Hmmm.... gotta think about this. On March 26 2013 01:24 TestSubject893 wrote: Its ok for you to play terrible because you're gonna get RBed? That's your excuse? Not gonna cut it. I've never seen anyone but scum express this sentiment. I don't know why'd you'd say this as town. On March 26 2013 01:13 TestSubject893 wrote: You've played exactly like a scum would if they fake claimed, so if you're town you've only got yourself to blame for us mislynching today. ##Vote: WaveofShadow As scum, there's direct incentive to remove players who are making sense and players who are on the right track. There are 3 dead guys who wanted to lynch WoS. How does that read to you? WIFOM. There are plenty of dead guys who pointed out other people as well. Like GreYMisT: On March 18 2013 11:12 GreYMisT wrote: Again, if I have to die so be it. the best I can do is say that I think goodkarma should be lynched. After GK I think waveofShadow should be looked into, followed by testsubject. These are my feelings at the moment. Point 3. Next let's look at Day 2 when Wave came under pressure: What's his direct response to pressure? This: That's right he voted for Wiggles. Wiggles already had a wagon started on him with Zarepath, GK and VE voting for him. Is there any reasoning behind why Wiggles is scum? No, this is just a deflection towards a lurker. I stand by the fact that he appeared scummy ever since my read on him changed at the beginning of the game. Zero regrets. Point 4. He voted with his scum reads on the deflection onto WIggles: + Show Spoiler [VE is scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok looking at the cosmic case on VE, there are a few things that are reaching just a little bit, but overall the inconsistencies pointed out in VE's play are pretty damning. Even more damning may be the fact that VE returns to the thread and completely ignores the (clearly good) case on him without trying to defend any of the points made on these inconsistencies, rather he just adds another post weakly pushing BH again. I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time. GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this: which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. On March 20 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: K glurio. GL buddy. I'll look into cosmic's VE case again, but in the end I think it just makes me assume that one of either VE or BH has to be scum. The super hard defense of GK by BH makes me think if he's scum then likely GK is too btu I don't know how likely that is, despite my conspiracy theory and the QT 'scumslip.' Speaking of which I remember harboring concerns about VE's town circle earlier on D1, but now we're on D2 and we haven't heard anything. Was it a joke or what? + Show Spoiler [BH+GK scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote: You misunderstand. I said it's more likely for BH/GK logs to be faked than BH/VE, if you read my case. I also never said they faked the logs entirely, I assume by the timestamps that they were actually using the mason QT but it is a possibility they are using the scum QT to discuss what to put in the mason QT in case they had to show logs. Much like my conspiracy theory-type posts from LX, I can perfectly understand if people think they're retarded, but I think it's at least worth consideration. On March 20 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright there we go, so there goes one of cosmic's points against you...that wasn't so hard. The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience: Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked? Point 5. He treats BH and VE differently Despite being back and forth as to who is scum (at first he's thinking BH+GK are scum, then he agrees that VE looks scummy, then he's back to BH+GK), The main thing that you'll really notice about this whole exchange is how in the whole time he doesn't really attack or pressure BH in any way. As a matter of fact, he takes the softball approach with BH: Whereas on VE he's far more direct: Let's look at his record for votes for the day: Wiggles, then VE then GK. That's right, despite thinking and saying this: He still manages to never vote for BH. As town, the logical thing to do would be to if one of VE or BH are scum is to pick a side, in the worst you can get a Vig to shoot the other. You learn very little if GK is town as BH could still be scum and VE could still be town. Lol is this your 'behavioural analysis' horseshit again? Because I honestly see no difference at all and you're really reaching here. It shows. I was unsure as to BH/VE and I attempted to ask them questions at various points during the day. That's all there is to it, really, but then again you do love looking wayyyy into things when there isn't anything huh? If you're scum then I applaud you for this game but if you're town, you really need to rethink the way you play this game since you've incorrectly fingered me as mafia in every game we've played aside from NMM 37 Point 6. N4/D5 progression. WoS ends the night with this. Note the subtle attempt to discredit. "Uhh, I don't think that non-interaction is scummy, but why haven't you interacted with XYZ people?" He starts off D5 with a weak case on Zarepath. Then when people don't respond and I shoot it down, he moves his vote onto DYH. Next and MOST IMPORTANTLY Kita posts two cases, the first on Glurio+ Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: Glurio I already outlined a case against Glurio, but that was a couple days ago so I'll update based on the events of the last few days. Case for reference: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 03:46 kitaman27 wrote: For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow. First I want to highlight the following post: When I listed glurio and CC as my top scum reads, glurio responded with the above question. A scum glurio would very well know that I would have no explanation, even though both players would be anti-town. He tries to tie his alignment to the alignment of another player to make me question my reads. Notice the wording of this post. After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game. In his soft-defense of BH, he disregards any notion of potentially voting for him, but doesn't provide any reasoning why. Last cycle glurio expresses his suspicion of layabout, yet now he has failed to even bring him up, shifting his suspicion towards myself and ryu. Why post suspicion of a player without following through with it, unless you want to create distance from a player in case one of you two flip. Look how glurio attacks WoS's checks, but refuses to actually call him scummy. He calls the checks terrible, yet never states what conclusion he comes to based on the checks. What point is there to cast suspicion on a player that you have a town read? glurio is playing the classic backseat mafia role. He has no interest in attracting any attention, being involved in any arguments or pushing any lynches. If I had to pick one word to characterize his play, it would be "safe". I can't find one post that shows glurio feels strongly about a single issue He votes for a player on day one with two other votes. He votes for a player on day two with zero other votes. Rather than scum hunting, he is hunting for players to vote for that will keep him out of the spotlight. Notice in his defense post about how his wasn't around for the second half of either cycle. Instead of pushing his lynch, his is throwing down his vote and returning 24 hours later to find out who flipped. glurio is scum On March 29 2013 10:01 kitaman27 wrote: People are all giving layabout a free pass due to his third party conversion and his attack on BH. The important thing to remember is that on day two his alignment changed. Comparing his play from day one to day two, the part the stands out is that his attacks on BH don't start until he becomes third party. On day one he doesn't mention BH, yet after being converted he suddenly wants BH lynched. Look how flippy floppy layabout is with his lynch target on day four. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he is just voting for the player that is most likely to have the most votes. He calls DP scum, then turns around and votes with DP. A third party player who was originally town would want a scum lynch since it would mean that if he was ever converted back, he would be in a better position. A third party player that was originally mafia would simply push whatever option was available. layabout is scum As town if you have a town read on someone + Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and to answer Geript, yes I still have a townread on kita; I don't really see any reason to doubt him right now despite what others have been saying---there has been no conrete evidence of a scum kita. On March 29 2013 02:42 WaveofShadow wrote: So we're at LYLO, we're completely in the dark as to what's going on with last night's resolution of actions and we have 8 posts total in almost 12 hours. So at LYLO, you completely ignore your town read's posts and instead go off on another tangents. That is not consistent with town play. Someone asked me about his reads (may have been kita himself, I forget) and I didn't find anything wrong with his cases per se, but I didn't find them particularly compelling in any way. Kinda like this case. I need more to go on about every single read that has popped up today and for the most part, I haven't gotten it so I didn't want to comment about it yet. Point 7. Everything is wrong with this post. First off, notice the attempt to discredit DP. He's saying that DP both had a good read on him (knowing who he would target) and a bad read on him (he's town). More importantly, he doesn't even go on to defend or explain why he thinks DP is right or wrong about WoS, Kita or Ryu. Second off, notice how “as town” he considered lying about a red check. As town, if you think you're at LYLO, WHY LIE? There's no reason. Not only are people going to have a hard time believing you because of DP's last post, but WoS hasn't had good reads at all. He never even took a real side on the whole VE/BH “one of them must be scum” concept. Why should anyone believe him? The reason why he didn't want to do it was because there's no way we'd believe him or trust him if he did. Third, notice the subtle “don't look/tunnel me plz” comment. I cut him some rope today because I've historically thought he was scum and because glurio made a good point on it, But at this point, it's not bad townie play, it's pure malicious. Fourth, for someone who hasn't put a vote on scum or found scum or "rolechecked" scum (other than perhaps Zarepath) it's damn hypocritical to call someone else useless. That's not creating townie atmosphere; it's trying to bury someone. [b]This is your worst point by far. Why in all that is holy would I ADMIT TO POTENTIALLY SCHEMING and specifically DRAW ATTENTION to DP's suspicion of me when I could have just said nothing about my being RBed tonight at all? (Fuck if I even know if I was RBed for sure, once again I got nothing from DrH at all.) If I'm discrediting him then why would I congratulate his read on me WHICH I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO ADMIT TO IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why not, as Zare suggested, just throw my check on someone that died again? Oh yeah, because I'm fucking town and I'm trying to be transparent about my play. Apparently I was transparent enough that DP read me perfectly so there's something to be said about that. Geript do yourself a favour and look elsewhere; we're running out of time and your tunneling attempts will get you nowhere. Don't rely on dead people's reads, get your own. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Kita I have no idea where to go on glurio right now. I'm going to re-re-re-look into him now. I've thought he was scum for most of the game but it's entirely possible his 'lone-wolf' voting style and lack of explanations when sheeping post are just his typical town play as well which is what is stopping me. Either way I'm not changing my vote to glurio right now. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + This is your worst point by far. Why in all that is holy would I ADMIT TO POTENTIALLY SCHEMING and specifically DRAW ATTENTION to DP's suspicion of me when I could have just said nothing about my being RBed tonight at all? (Fuck if I even know if I was RBed for sure, once again I got nothing from DrH at all.) If I'm discrediting him then why would I congratulate his read on me WHICH I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO ADMIT TO IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why not, as Zare suggested, just throw my check on someone that died again? Oh yeah, because I'm fucking town and I'm trying to be transparent about my play. Apparently I was transparent enough that DP read me perfectly so there's something to be said about that. | ||
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