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Well here's a problem I see. I don't want NW lynched today but since all of the lurkers have piled on top of him, he's currently going to die in 3.5 hours. Since they're lurkers we can't necessarily expect them to come back and change their votes. We're going to have to consolidate our votes to ONE other person to make sure that if there are more scum among the active posters than lurkers, they can't come back and hammer the vote in on NW.
I'm not sold on Taco yet, and I would like to lynch Daishi as of now, though I might consider Chew. Thoughts, active (hopefully) townies?
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On March 09 2013 06:40 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well here's a problem I see. I don't want NW lynched today but since all of the lurkers have piled on top of him, he's currently going to die in 3.5 hours. Since they're lurkers we can't necessarily expect them to come back and change their votes. We're going to have to consolidate our votes to ONE other person to make sure that if there are more scum among the active posters than lurkers, they can't come back and hammer the vote in on NW.
I'm not sold on Taco yet, and I would like to lynch Daishi as of now, though I might consider Chew. Thoughts, active (hopefully) townies? The only problem I have with an Arctic lynch today is that there is almost nothing that separates him from bduddy, Chew and Frorgon. Where I see Taco as being very clearly the only person who has put themselves in a very compromising situation and just looks like scum trying to pretend to stay active. What is Arctic is just another bad townie? There's nothing to prove that he is really scum vs bad townie. Where with Taco I can very clearly see a scum read. Thats why I've also switched my vote from Frorgon, very much the same situation. When all the lurkers seem scummy a miss-lynch is much more likely vs a semi-active scum read.
But see that's the thing. MeatlessTaco hasn't posted in forever, so if he was just 'pretending' to be active early so he could lurk late, well, we don't know that yet. We'll see if he returns. As for Daishi, he lurked early and is clearly here, but putting in the minimal effort to look like he is contributing right now.
And THIS post is a gem, I can't believe I missed this.
On March 09 2013 06:43 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well here's a problem I see. I don't want NW lynched today but since all of the lurkers have piled on top of him, he's currently going to die in 3.5 hours. Since they're lurkers we can't necessarily expect them to come back and change their votes. We're going to have to consolidate our votes to ONE other person to make sure that if there are more scum among the active posters than lurkers, they can't come back and hammer the vote in on NW.
I'm not sold on Taco yet, and I would like to lynch Daishi as of now, though I might consider Chew. Thoughts, active (hopefully) townies? I agree that Daishi is a pretty vibrant target. I was going to favor Chew over him until his more recent attempts to return to reactivity, given hes just jumping on a bandwaggon and not making an explination for himself before vanishing again.... However, I don't want to see NW lynched anymore either, and given that chew is much closer to lynching, I'm tempted to leave my vote on him untill we get a majority set on daishi. I'm going to say Daishi in particular over someone like Luneth or Frorgon, I don't think theres enough to go after either of them and be sure anyways.... Side note about Arctic, I do love that he is the last person on the vote for every vote hes ever casted, and peels off as soon as another band wagon seems good enough.
Good work, TRN.
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On March 09 2013 06:45 nobodywonder wrote:
I'd like Chew, Matriarch, MLuneth, Krafla to respond. They haven't said anything since their votes. Otherwise town gets no info from my lynch.
I second Omni's post about Arctic. I have to say you won't get any information from an Arctic lynch. On this basis, Frogron, you should change your vote on bduddy. for all your talk about contributions and your contributions in comparison to other posters such as bduddy and Arctic, you really need to make a stand
I agree with your second point, not your first. We're not lynching for information, we're lynching to eliminate scum. If we hit scum D1 then we're that much closer to winning.
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Oh, that wasn't very clear.
I agree with Frorgon having to move his vote, not with your agreement with OE's post.
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Alright in a bid to get you to change your vote (not that I don't think Taco looks bad):
What would we learn from Taco's lynch.
Assume he is scum and he has just flipped. What have we now learned?
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THERE's the man of the hour.
Now the fun can really begin.
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Alright let's see:
OE, I was about to post what you did. If we lynch Daishi Taco could very easily still be town, having simply meant he didn't expect Daishi to show up at all.
Now as for Taco:
Good to see you've returned in your hour of need. Now as for your defense---I'm willing to believe it, but this is a newbie game. Gambits are stupid because you can't expect people to behave exactly the way you want them to, ie. you're about to get yourself lynched. What you SHOULD be doing is what you should have been doing from the start: scumhunting. Now that all of these bandwagons have been started for you (I see you only made it to the point in the thread where Frorgon/Chew are the topics of the day) you seem to want to immediately choose one and be done with it.
That's not going to be good enough for us, I'll tell you that right now. I expect cases and I expect them hours ago. Enough evidence has been posted against Arctic (doubt you'll get much more considering his filter) I want to hear another scumread or an analysis of someone else's case. Preferably both.
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On March 09 2013 07:12 TheRavensName wrote:
##unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi
Just going to change this while its on my mind. I'm pretty certain now hes a much better hit then Chew, but I'm not entirerly convined on Meatless for the reasons I've suggested already. But... lets see what he can give us to confirm this indifferance or change it to guilt now that hes here.
I was just about to ask why your vote was still on Chew. I'm gonna have to go with OE on your towniness at this point, not that it should really concern us to confirm town at this point in the game. Just waitin' on Taco and the lurkers, now.
And I suppose NW.
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On March 09 2013 07:15 bduddy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright in a bid to get you to change your vote (not that I don't think Taco looks bad):
What would we learn from Taco's lynch.
Assume he is scum and he has just flipped. What have we now learned? We've learned that there is one fewer scum in the game and that we're way closer to winning. How is that not a great thing? Arctic is seriously lurking hardcore though (yes, I understand the irony. I just got done with a job interview that got pushed back from earlier today), and his few posts look like lame attempts to jump on a bandwagon or to look active. I'm also very suspicious of how Arctic and OE seem to be mutually defending each other. For example: Show nested quote +AD wrote: You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation?. Show nested quote +OE wrote: @MLuneth Could you expand on why you chose Arctic to vote on when there were others (bduddy, ChewOnStu) without any content as well. Other than it just being a coin flip. @Krafla + Show Spoiler + Although you believe we may be giving some lurkers too easy of a time how do you feel about Luneth's vote on Arctic vs the other lurkers? Do you think it was too early to cast a serious vote on someone who has not been present or was it a justified action in your eyes? @Rainbows You mention Luneth being scummy, what do you think about his vote on Arctic? As Arctic has yet to show up, do you think it is more town oriented (trying to get a lurker to post) or scummy (attacking the easiest player early on in hopes that Arctic doesn't defend himself). @Arctic Can give us your thoughts on what has happened so far and answer most of the questions I have asked to the others. [ LOL that's the best you can do?] [others omitted] Show nested quote +OE wrote: I agree with you there, I don't think the vote makes much sense either and I'm trying to decide on if he just attacked an easy player or not, and if Arctic never does contest it it would be very easy for scum to latch onto him early and ride D1 out safely that way. I just re-read the first few pages and he does explain why he didn't vote for NW but considering he does that and then puts a serious vote on Arctic... I can see misguided townie and scum motivation behind it. I agree with TRN's recent posts and understand that what I was going off of may have been wrong. For now, even if I'm suspicious of OE, Arctic will be totally useless to us even if he is town, OE at least posts. ##Unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi
Oooo, the plot thickens. I'm inclined to believe that this may be coincidence since OE's posts were early on (that list post of questions is useless) and AD has proven to just buddy up and bandwagon whoever he finds best at the time, but how's THAT for information we learn, OE?
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I'm gettin' all tingly. This game has gotten good, despite the lurkers.
On March 09 2013 07:16 Frorgon wrote:
Now looking at ChewOnStu's filter, it looks really bad. Some inital posting, then a vote. Nothing since then. Some talk too on lurkers and that voting for them is bad.
Since there's already 3 votes his way it may be a good choice. And I've never been entirely sure on Meatless.
I think a Chew vote is wrong for the same reason a Taco vote was wrong. Posting a ton and then disappearing doesn't really help us out, a lurk is still a lurk. Better to vote someone who has attempted more recently to look townie (and failed). Also for the purposes of consolidation, I could've sworn we were trying to get either Taco or Daishi lynched right now?
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Wow I just looked back, Chew hasn't done anything at all this game. He'd be on the same level as Daishi if Daishi didn't come back and make himself look scummier. Chew is just a lurker right now, nothing more. He's null in my eyes.
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On March 09 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote:
Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now.
You're right, and I want to see Taco comment on this.
On March 09 2013 07:22 OmniEulogy wrote:
if Arctic is scum and you guys nail him, it's fantastic but I'm still wondering how he is different from the other lurkers like bduddy. If we just talk about Arctic being lynched and flipping scum, the only thing we gain is scum being down by 1 which is huge for D1 don't get me wrong but his absence means we don't learn much else from it. My question to him at that point was the best I could do, he literally had 0 posts to his name, and all the questions were more aimed towards seeing peoples reactions to me asking them, and how people felt about Luneth as opposed to Arctic (who wasn't even a subject of conversation at that point).
I guess if I look at it from a point that Arctic wouldn't vote on his own scum buddies, we might be able to clear the people he's voted on as being town? Although even that is a shot in the dark.
Did you read Taco's post? Or Raven's last few? We have plenty to learn. Daishi is goin' downnnnnnnnnn
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Yes, but Omni what do we learn if Taco flips scum?
That's been one of the sticking points to vote him instead of Daishi and you haven't explained it yet; you seem to think we'll learn mroe from a Taco scumflip than Daishi. Why?
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On March 09 2013 07:41 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:33 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 09 2013 06:20 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 09 2013 05:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
@Omni your cases so far have been solid, can you expand on your thoughts on MeatlessTaco? I agree he has been very aggressive in his posting though the only real scummy thing I've seen from him is the sheep vote onto Chew.
Also what are your thoughts regarding the rest of the lurkers today? There are quite a few of them (Matriarch, Daishi, Luneth probably the worst offenders) and it's going to be very difficult to determine what to do with them once the day is over. Hmm not sure what else to say about Taco... well actually I'll go the other way, I think I've covered pretty much everything he's done that seems to go against town, but he was right when he said you have to suspect everybody in one of his first posts. On March 08 2013 08:46 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 07:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
...
MeatlessTaco: Aggressively enters the thread makes a couple early game cases and leaves. Who is your top scumread right now and why? (I refuse to believe it's NW just because you voted him)
... I wanted to pounce on Raven, his initial exuberance 10 min before game starts and then lurks for a long time like he's getting help from his scum mentor. Since then, he hasn't done enough to move my suspicion. There is no instant lynch. My vote means who I suspect right now. I felt that this was a good post, generally people who have decent activity before a game starts and then disappear as soon as it starts deserve to be looked at more closely. At the same time going back to odd actions from him we also have things like this On March 08 2013 08:55 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 07:34 Krafla wrote:
What I wanted to add was it seemed like people only started to consider NW once MeatlessTaco went after him, and I was going to wonder out loud if MeatlessTaco ..
Everything starts somewhere. If my analysis was poor, argue that. Don't argue that I made an argument that caught on so that is bad. It's a good thing if an argument gets some traction. On March 08 2013 07:34 Krafla wrote:
And now the same thing has happened again and Matriarch has posted throwing doubt on Meatless just before I hit send, ohwell, I'm going to leave it here!
Let's hear Krafla's and Matriarch's reasoning behind suspecting me. I understand NobodyWonder hasn't said a lot, neither have I or you. We do what we can with very limited information. Make a case, but don't point fingers at me without a case better than "he made an argument that someone else agreed with". He didn't actually make a case... did he forget? It was a joke vote that stuck and other people attacked NW. There was no case from Taco. On March 08 2013 08:58 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 08:53 nobodywonder wrote:
...I'd still say if I can't find concrete proof of scum, then I would just get rid of the scummiest lurker...
Isn't that kind of a high bar for day 1? Isn't that the exact job town is trying to do? On March 08 2013 14:56 MeatlessTaco wrote:
No vote: OmniEulogy, Krafla, TheRavensName, Arctic Daishi, bduddy, Matriarch, Frorgon, WaveofShadows
You all need to make a stand. Are you going to let marines kills our broodlings one by one? Vote and make a case. Again from somebody who hasn't actually made a single case all game this seems really REALLY bad... looking through his filter and doing this again... I'm actually going to move Taco to my scum list. ##Unvote##Vote: MeatlessTacoI believe this case is Much stronger than my case on Frorgon and am changing my vote for that reason. What does everybody else make of this case on Taco? In fact... I am going to push for Taco's Lynch, I expect anybody who wants to hit scum to jump on this train, The Wagon of Justice has arrived. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2013 04:49 OmniEulogy wrote:I'm also quite worried about Taco. His actions so far are a mixture of scum/town so I can't get a good read on him. We have his opening joke vote, which alone I have no problem with Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 14:47 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 14:06 WaveofShadow wrote:My GOD this thread is exciting.  On March 07 2013 14:17 nobodywonder wrote:
woo! ~ exciting game Nobody's only post is sheeping the experienced guy adding no new content of his own? Now you can lurk and say "I would have contributed if the game were more exciting?" That seems pretty anti-town to me. ##Vote: nobodywonder Now it's more exciting. However we do end up sticking on NW through pressure of other people so he never actually has to vote. He uses this as an excuse to pressure others to place votes on people when he himself never actually made a serious vote. Keep in mind how early in the game these posts are. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 17:05 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:01 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Point taken, I guess I'd have to pick someone randomly, so probably someone that hasn't posted yet, Arctic Daishi?! Why are you afraid to take a position? Are you going to vote for Arctic Daishi or just write his name with a question mark? I feel that Krafla here was trying to apply pressure the Arctic who had yet said anything at all but Taco tries to pressure him to vote for somebody who hasn't said a single word so far? that's sketchy so early on in the game. Makes it seem like he doesn't care who is voting for who. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 17:13 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:08 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 17:05 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:01 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Point taken, I guess I'd have to pick someone randomly, so probably someone that hasn't posted yet, Arctic Daishi?! Why are you afraid to take a position? Are you going to vote for Arctic Daishi or just write his name with a question mark? Nope, I'm not going to vote yet, I want to make an educated decision of who to vote for instead of flinging dirt and seeing what sticks Take a stand. Are you going to side with me trying to lynch someone acting suspicious or side with nobodywonder trying to lynch a lurker who can't defend themselves? This is TL Mafia which is serious stuff. You aren't allowed to be Switzerland. Again goes after Krafla early on, Why is Taco so obsessed with getting people to vote? The game isn't even through the first 24 hours. Town doesn't need to throw votes out so quickly, they need to think about their actions as Krafla is doing. This raises more questions about how much Taco actually cares who gets lynched. And then we have these back-to-back posts. Holy Shit Hypocrisy. Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:35 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 03:08 ChewOnStu wrote:
Im finding nobodywonder scummy too for complaining about lurkers not contributing yet he's barely contributed anything himself.
##vote: nobodywonder
... Why are you bandwagoning on NW while your only contribution is couple of trite posts about your lurker policy? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 14:06 MeatlessTaco wrote:
You are right. His behavior is unacceptable so far. You got anything to add Chew?
##Vote: ChewOnStu His FIRST real vote is a complete sheep with nothing to add about why Chew is scum. Does he really care who gets lynched? This doesn't take away from the good points he's made and some of his questions have been really good... but the inconsistency is there. ^ My original look through his filter. Shit just got real... I didn't expect that... Yeah, I forgot I had never made a case against NW, he had only 2 posts or something at that point. He defended himself poorly, but eventually my read was that he was making an honest effort. Chew's behavior was unacceptable, you can't let someone float through 2 days of discussion, put down a vote and avoid scrutiny. I stand by the concrete proof statement. All our scum reads aren't 100%. Being unhelpful to town has to still be a factor. On March 09 2013 07:00 TheRavensName wrote:On March 09 2013 06:58 Frorgon wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: MeatlessTaco
I am going to take a stand now to see if we can get more people onboard. I think nobodywonder does make a good point that we don't gain much information from lynching Arctic D1. I do find it curious that Meatless has disappeared after getting everyone to antagonize NW, maybe thinking that his job was done for the day. Lets see if he can defend himself. If we Lynch Arctic and he comes up Red though, we get a good deal out of it. Especially sense Meatless was pushing for us to forget about him cause he would just be replaced. I didn't want the copout available: vote for the guy who hasn't posted yet. I never considered the possibility that he would de-lurk. On March 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote:
Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now. You're right, and I want to see Taco comment on this. As for the criticisms against me: they are correct. I've been hoping that it I prodded everyone into action I would be able to have a ton on information for the Day 1 lynch. In this post in particular, I didn't want someone to vote Daishi and say "I'm pressuring a lurker, see I'm helping". It has been my strategy that votes are the best way to pressure people and force people to take a position. In doing this, I was hugely hypocritical, because I didn't take too many positions myself. Honestly, I never thought the whole NW thing to take off. I was waiting to strike on Raven and asked the mentor about it, but Raven's return didn't give me anything to be suspicious and NW was digging himself a hole. I also assumed ( like 30 min ago while re-reading thread when I made that post), activity wise, that Frogron or Chew would be lynched. All well and good but... do you have a new case or are you sticking with your cop out mr Taco? Your post in this way basically makes you sound more like a caught red trying to make excuses. I mean you said yourself that your a hypocrit, which is about as close to a liar your going to get in mafia this early in without a fake role claim.
Don't be so quick to judge; the only way I got myself out of a sure lynch situation D1 in NMM 37 was being apologetic because I was super noob. To be fair though Taco doesn't strike me as super noob. I still don't think this is enough for me to go on to change my vote though.
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On March 09 2013 07:15 bduddy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright in a bid to get you to change your vote (not that I don't think Taco looks bad):
What would we learn from Taco's lynch.
Assume he is scum and he has just flipped. What have we now learned? We've learned that there is one fewer scum in the game and that we're way closer to winning. How is that not a great thing? Arctic is seriously lurking hardcore though (yes, I understand the irony. I just got done with a job interview that got pushed back from earlier today), and his few posts look like lame attempts to jump on a bandwagon or to look active. I'm also very suspicious of how Arctic and OE seem to be mutually defending each other. For example: Show nested quote +AD wrote: You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation?. Show nested quote +OE wrote: @MLuneth Could you expand on why you chose Arctic to vote on when there were others (bduddy, ChewOnStu) without any content as well. Other than it just being a coin flip. @Krafla + Show Spoiler + Although you believe we may be giving some lurkers too easy of a time how do you feel about Luneth's vote on Arctic vs the other lurkers? Do you think it was too early to cast a serious vote on someone who has not been present or was it a justified action in your eyes? @Rainbows You mention Luneth being scummy, what do you think about his vote on Arctic? As Arctic has yet to show up, do you think it is more town oriented (trying to get a lurker to post) or scummy (attacking the easiest player early on in hopes that Arctic doesn't defend himself). @Arctic Can give us your thoughts on what has happened so far and answer most of the questions I have asked to the others. [ LOL that's the best you can do?] [others omitted] Show nested quote +OE wrote: I agree with you there, I don't think the vote makes much sense either and I'm trying to decide on if he just attacked an easy player or not, and if Arctic never does contest it it would be very easy for scum to latch onto him early and ride D1 out safely that way. I just re-read the first few pages and he does explain why he didn't vote for NW but considering he does that and then puts a serious vote on Arctic... I can see misguided townie and scum motivation behind it. I agree with TRN's recent posts and understand that what I was going off of may have been wrong. For now, even if I'm suspicious of OE, Arctic will be totally useless to us even if he is town, OE at least posts. ##Unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi
bduddy pointed you out soft defending Daishi. You keep saying we'd learn nothing if he flipped? Well we might learn something about you. We'd certainly also learn something about his voting patterns and we might be able to figure out if the people he was bandwagoning were scum or not.
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EBWOP: The above is directed @Omni
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Vote count please, o fearless leader?
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Luneth, there has been so much evidence as to why you're wrong I'm not even going to link it. Just look at his filter. This refusal to change your vote even after it's been established that only lurkers are going to be staying on NW is looking tres scummy.
As for you Taco, I really wish you hadn't said that. Almost every mafia game I've been in where someone tried some sort of funny business or gambit to 'generate content' they turned out to be mafia. What's the point in generating content you yourself have no intention of following up on? All it does is create confusion and further useless content ---> scum MO.
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Nah I'll stick with my Rolls Royce of Justice.
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Hey you know who's flown under the radar since the thread picked up and wasn't one of my original lurkers?
Rainbows.
I liked his play early game and if he shows up he may be able to help us decide one way or another.
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EPT
