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On February 28 2013 17:12 MilkSuckler wrote:Nice work going ad-hominem at the end. Show nested quote + I know you, and I know how many townies you've tunneled based on a single perceived inconsistency. You're doing it again. ========= If you recall, I actually liked your filter when JJ called you out, and said he needs to provide more substance. My issue with your play came about during your defense from JJ. I probed you, and your guilt became more and more apparent; no tunneling involved there. Nice try to discredit there, dear :p
Mate, I'm trying to point out to you where you're going wrong so you can learn from this and become a better player. Like I said, when I flip take a look at your case. You're essentially lynching me for not being perfect.
========= Show nested quote +Lastly, the right answer: was to not be aware of the right answer.
Stupidity would have set you free. ======== To expound: That you comment on town-motivation with prome; infers you spent time examining the action in question before deriving at your soft-defense conclusion. Our discussions have proved you are aware of what is right, and what is wrong.. I severely doubt you had an epiphany moment mid-game, to give you improved insight into town/scum motivations; so its safe to conclude you were aware of this pre-game.Thus, you analysed the behaviour.. you were aware of what is town motivation.. but you still turned a blind eye and tried to cast doubt on a prome lynch.. I see ZERO town motivation for that action
I had an epiphany (pretty good description actually) that Promethelax wasn't trying to make the RNG gambit succeed. I thought he might have been at that point, and later realised he almost certainly wasn't. You can take that or leave it.
And once again that was NOT A DEFENCE OF PROM. That was a "someone please explain this to me further", and Wade obliged.
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On February 28 2013 17:26 MilkSuckler wrote:
Having said that.. I am not a vig, so from that perspective; I am not the one that needs to be convinced of innocence/guilt
lol I wondered about that.
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Well hello there.
Not sure whether I'm in more danger from scum or an overzealous vig :/
Likely scum
Hassybaby
+ Show Spoiler +Just getting this out of the way first - he's lurked hard to date. His contributions are - Made a pitch for pardoner. Nobody really paid any attention to it at all. - Asks whether OO thinks Prom or Vivax is a good lynch - Defends himself against Vivax for the above, rages at Vivax then leaves. He says he's busy - fine, I understand that. Look at this though. On February 27 2013 07:21 Hassybaby wrote:
A thank you to the guy who reminded me that the game actually started 40 mins after I said I was in. You know who you are and you're awesome and hot (I thought it was starting tonight.) I'm just going to go along and comment as I go down the thread, but have a window open for the most recent stuff, so I can answer/comment on anything immediate as well.
First of, layabout, I've never been so turned on before. That picture is the hottest thing I've seen since Wiggles accidentally turned his camera on during a dota-session Skype call.
While we're on the voting mayor malarky, I'd like to throw my hat in...for the pardoner. My platform:
I won't use it. Like Holy Roman, but without the archbishop crap. I want the case to be that I get pardoner, I'm all "cool" then we move on because it should be only a talking point if I use it, which I have no intention to. And you're all welcome to shoot me if I go back on that.
As fort he major spot, as of page 29, I'm leaning towards VE as mayor. History dictates that VE and Toad are bitches to read for me (I gave up on my brain and went with gut feeling in the last 2 attempts,) and having them in spots of power gives more for me to work with. Toad doesn't want it, so VE it is. My gut agrees for now.
##Vote: VE
Moar readingz! This is his platform for being pardoner. Basically his platform is that he won't use it... which is completely obvious and pretty much assumed of the pardoner. As for "you're all welcome to shoot me if I go back on that", scum would only use the power at LYLO anyway... but I digress. Read this post. Hassybaby thought seriously about this post. This was a serious attempt to become the pardoner. In that case, why do we never hear about this again? Hassybaby doesn't mention the role ever again. And it's not like anyone told him not to try either - in that case it would have been understandable. The only reason I can think of for someone to make a bid for office and then never mention it again is that he's scum and didn't want to make too much noise about it. The fact that he's specifically running for pardoner and has no interest in mayor is suggestive as well. + Show Spoiler +
Now that I think about it, doesn't a scum mayor have a similar effect on LYLO to a scum pardoner? The difference being I suppose that mayor is likely to be under more scrutiny.
There is no tl;dr this case is already rivalling Hassybaby's filter in length
TestSubject893
+ Show Spoiler +In his first stint of playing TestSubject discussed exactly one thing: Pardoner policy. Didn't pay any attention to my opinion on OO or indeed anything else in the thread involving scumhunting. When he comes back we have this: On February 27 2013 09:35 TestSubject893 wrote:I've been working all day and just now got caught up on the thread. Here's what I've got. Promethelax is still my top scum read and I will be voting for a mayor that wants to kill him. Jungle Jorge and ObviousOne, in that order, are next on my scum list. I think we're placing a little too much trust in DoctorHelvetica. It seems like some people are treating him as nearly confirmed town, and frankly he's not even close to that in my book. Moreover, I'm afraid that should DrH get either of the elected roles, his perception as confirmed town will only be furthered, without him doing anything more pro-town. Most of his cred has come from telling people they aren't scumhunting enough and how great scumhunting is, and while these things are pro-town, its not something that's hard to fake. On top of that, the only contribution he's made on the scumhunting front is to really amplify the pressure on Prome. While again, this is great, the fact that he seems to be distancing himself from it slightly in this post + Show Spoiler +On February 27 2013 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:11 glurio wrote:
I think vayesh does make sense in what he posts. Yeah hes pretty much just prodding around but thats kinda what you have to do in the beginning. And he has found good points imo.
Jcarlsoniv do you believe prom and vivax are town? If yes, what makes you believe so? Weird that you chose to respond to that specifically. Maybe not, maybe I'm being paranoid. And yes, I'm still pushing Prome for the day. He basically martyred so he should die. I'm working from 1-10 PST tonight so unfortunately I'm not gonna be able to be here to push him. Since all discussion is built on this foundation of lynching Prome, it's the best outcome for us right now. At least for Day 1. I would never say to lynch for information, I absolutely believe he is scum but there is no sense in acting on hunches and getting distracted. Don't fuck it up guys keep focused on the goal of finding scum. Everything else comes second. is a little concerning to me. I think it's likely that DrH is town, but lets make him prove that to us before we show him so much trust. Hopefully, we've gotten it right with Prome, in which case DrH will be deserving of the town cred he seems to currently have. With the this in mind, I'm going to vote for someone who is going lynch Prome, but whose election I think will not stunt discussion and critique of the mayor himself. ##Vote: VisceraEyes Promethelax is still his top scum read? Don't think he mentioned this before, but whatever. I'm not sure what to make of his reservations on DocH either. Maybe town being properly cautious? Maybe scum not wanting DocH to be "confirmed" town? idk. The rest of his filter is mostly answering some questions from Layabout and then arranging the election. tl;dr I see no evidence of him thinking at all about finding scum and nothing which makes me think he's town.
Other Plausible Scum
Chaos Bear
+ Show Spoiler +
this space intentionally left blank
Toad
+ Show Spoiler +
My problem with Toad is the sheer amount of nothing he did for most of day 1. Sure he caught (or helped to catch) Prom. But after that he mostly just sat on his ass and congratulated himself. Particularly he didn't put any effort into trying to learn anything else from day 1. His play just feels sloppy to me after he caught Prom, but it would be sloppy town or sloppy scum. Not a huge suspect but I'm uneasy. Prom knew he'd have to leave late D1, a bus from Toad is at least plausible.
Geript
+ Show Spoiler +I'm torn on this one. Reading through his filter I see towny things: - Campaign for mayor - not afraid to put himself in the spotlight
- Is actually publishing reads
... and scummy things: - I really don't like his case on WoS. The change in tone thing just seems to me like the kind of thing a scum player would jump on someone for, it's not really a reason that I would think someone was scum in as of itself. Also, his soft defence of Vivax (with unspoken apology for agreeing with Prom) followed by "I think Vivax is scum" doesn't read well to me at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 19:43 geript wrote:Sorry I got caught up at work; major AC leak and a busted urinal within 30 minutes of each other and when I don't usually clean. Had to call people in, explain why I was there, what was going on and why I wasn't responsible for it. First off, there are three distinct tones in WoS key post and I'm going to separate them out. Show nested quote +A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you? All this says is that whatever you are about to propose is absolutely retarded. All it says is, "ignore this post." This tone is returned to at the end. Show nested quote +Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. The second tone is the analysis tone: Show nested quote +Since the pardoner is inherently more dangerous as a scumrole and the plan to 'kill two birds with one stone' in all likelihood won't (or can't at this point) gain the traction necessary to be carried out, why not give up the role to someone who is likely to be targeted early anyway, or someone who if you are overly suspicious of, you can lynch yourselves anyway?
Case and point: a newbie. Basically this says, "trust a newbie to be pardoner." The problem is that his argument falls apart when you really analyze it. You don't want pardoner in the hands of a newbie because it's a free pass for when they get caught for them unless they're lynched D1. I agree with previous analysis, best to put pardoner on the mayor's lynch target. Next the general plea: Show nested quote +I graciously offer up myself to be the (possible) sacrificial lamb to do with as you will. If you so choose to lynch me for fear that I am scum, then I go down happily, hopefully bringing as much information to the table as possible before I crash and burn in an epic fireball. If you choose to keep me around, then I will serve the town gladly and I will offer up my pardon to save a deserving person. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. This section is especially out of tone for him. I feel like I'm watching C3PO talk to Jabba here. This paragraph especially feels forced; the diction is all wrong for him. His posts are little more than mimicry than anything else in general but this paragraph is nothing of the sort. Next, I actually have to agree with what Prome said. The difference between Vivax response and WoS response is that Vivax actually attacks the argument (If you do A+B then no way you get to C). WoS response was essentially, "You got NK last game." WoS is playing excited this game. Even when he's grabbed a touch of heat, he's not been the slightest concerned about it and continues to "counterpressure" with bleh. I'm going to reread the thread a few times before I head to bed and sleep on it but for right now Vivax and WoS are on the top of my list but I'd need a flip to make a strong case.
- His answers to my questions about the WoS case didn't make me think he was any more towny (as opposed to what happened with Wade or MilkSuckler). Nothing directly incriminating either.
No idea what to make of his discussion with VE yet since it's going on as I write this, seeing as it's now more than a third of his filter I may have to adjust this read. His general suspicion of more prominent players is suggestive of paranoid town... or scum trying to look like paranoid town (see: Axle in LIX).
JungleJorge
+ Show Spoiler +
The only meaningful thing he did day 1 was his fake-defence of Prom. I don't know what to make of his reads in night one... I don't see how Restraining Order was "mudslinging" at all. No idea how he has a town lean on TestSubject.
His case on me is... well, I can believe that he believes it, but if he does he's suffering from tunneling a single aspect of my filter. Which is hardly uncommon. Then again, it would also be consistent with a cherrypicking scum.
There's a lot I don't understand the motivation for in a comparatively short filter and I don't like that. I have no particularly good reason to think he's scum, but I'm dubious about his play in general.
People who I haven't looked at at all
+ Show Spoiler +
jcarlsoniv
The Macho Man
layabout
Some other people
I want more from Restraining Order and Randombum.
No idea what to make of Grush and Chezinu.
ObviousOne
+ Show Spoiler +
Obvious' play was bloody useless for the first half of D1. I think he overreacted a lot to my pressure, and his N1 case on me was pretty terrible.
However.
If you read his case on me as a defence of himself (pointing out that everything he thinks I've accused him of is stuff I've kinda done) it makes sense. It might not be particularly good play, but Obvious has been tilted at me all game, and this case does reflect that.
A lot of his play hasn't been all that good and he doesn't like me much but my gut's starting to tell me that OO is town. I don't like it much but there you are.
I've read Grush and I have no idea what his alignment is.
I haven't read Chezinu and I doubt doing so will help.
My intended lynch is Hassybaby. That might change if he actually plays.
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On March 01 2013 08:58 VayeshMoru wrote:
Also Aquanim had one of the most fucked up posts i've ever seen for his "death" post.
Why include reads on people you aren't sure about. Put down the ones you think are scum and why. Null tells are fucking useless.
Some of them started as scum reads :/
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Thought I posted this already...
##Vote: Hassybaby
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On March 01 2013 09:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 09:42 The Milkman wrote:
I cannot believe that a sane medic would leave mayor unprotected.
Like, no way in hell. If I were medic, I wouldn't protect VisceraEyes. I would have protected BloodyC0bbler to see what he brings Day 1 or maybe WaveofShadow.
Why would you have protected WaveofShadow?
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On March 01 2013 10:05 The Milkman wrote:
Furthermore:
Vivax attacks me on the basis of my day one play. He also claims to be a vigilante. His scum reads he has expressed throughout the day and night were me and glurio. He chose to shoot hassybaby. If he is so dead set on me being scum based on day one play, why he did not try to kill me? Easy. First, he is not a vigilante. Second, he is scum.
Why would he change his mind and "shoot" Hassy if he was scum?
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Does roleblocking a mafia reduce their number for purposes of determining KP?
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On March 01 2013 10:18 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 10:15 The Milkman wrote:On March 01 2013 10:08 Aquanim wrote:On March 01 2013 10:05 The Milkman wrote:
Furthermore:
Vivax attacks me on the basis of my day one play. He also claims to be a vigilante. His scum reads he has expressed throughout the day and night were me and glurio. He chose to shoot hassybaby. If he is so dead set on me being scum based on day one play, why he did not try to kill me? Easy. First, he is not a vigilante. Second, he is scum. Why would he change his mind and "shoot" Hassy if he was scum? He slipped himself that he considered it more of a safe shot. Where... Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 09:18 The Milkman wrote:
Hassy was safer target?
What? How can a vigilante think about someone as "safer" target?! You kill the guy because HE IS SUSPICIOUS. If you thought there is a scum medic and he'd protect glurio... well... Then you have failed miserably.
Of ALL the people mafia would roleblock Vivax? Really? Sorry, but many people called for vig shots, so your "breadcrumbs" are moot in this case. It was you that said it was safe.. using your logic.. YOU scum slipped ##Vote: Vivax
"Safe" shot might have been an unfortunate choice of words but I don't see how it makes Vivax scum. Hassybaby was a much better shot than Milkman or Glurio and I don't see what's wrong with Vivax making that choice.
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On March 01 2013 10:24 layabout wrote:
Aqua since the main point of your case is that hassy tried to be pardoner what do you think of the fact that he ran for a similar role in Holy Roman mafia on a similar basis won it and didn't use it?
Despite that being a theme/ troll game it doesn't change that he has done the exact thing that you are calling him scum for as town.
I think we should lynch macho today or failing that chez since I trust BC on this. night.
I don't think he's scum because he ran for Pardoner, I think he's scum because he put no effort besides that original post into his campaign. The initial post indicated enthusiasm for the role - his lack of interest afterwards indicated otherwise. IMO the best way to reconcile that difference is that he's scum and didn't
With a quick look at his filter in Holy Roman Mafia it seems that there he pushed his campaign for Empress after his initial post and was consistently interested in getting it, whereas here he let it sink without a trace. That's the difference between HRMafia and here. If you disagree with that I can take a closer look at HR.
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On March 01 2013 10:30 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 10:24 Aquanim wrote:On March 01 2013 10:18 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 01 2013 10:15 The Milkman wrote:On March 01 2013 10:08 Aquanim wrote:On March 01 2013 10:05 The Milkman wrote:
Furthermore:
Vivax attacks me on the basis of my day one play. He also claims to be a vigilante. His scum reads he has expressed throughout the day and night were me and glurio. He chose to shoot hassybaby. If he is so dead set on me being scum based on day one play, why he did not try to kill me? Easy. First, he is not a vigilante. Second, he is scum. Why would he change his mind and "shoot" Hassy if he was scum? He slipped himself that he considered it more of a safe shot. Where... On March 01 2013 09:18 The Milkman wrote:
Hassy was safer target?
What? How can a vigilante think about someone as "safer" target?! You kill the guy because HE IS SUSPICIOUS. If you thought there is a scum medic and he'd protect glurio... well... Then you have failed miserably.
Of ALL the people mafia would roleblock Vivax? Really? Sorry, but many people called for vig shots, so your "breadcrumbs" are moot in this case. It was you that said it was safe.. using your logic.. YOU scum slipped ##Vote: Vivax "Safe" shot might have been an unfortunate choice of words but I don't see how it makes Vivax scum. Hassybaby was a much better shot than Milkman or Glurio and I don't see what's wrong with Vivax making that choice. I dont see anything wrong with it either.. do you guys not read the thread Vivax accused Milkman of being scum saying "milkman called hassy safe" I showed, it was vivax who said it was safe.. hence.. using vivax logic.. vivax is scum Why are you and geript over reacting to this so much?
1) why are you using vivax logic when you clearly hold it in disdain?
2) why does being wrong about who said it was safe make vivax scum?
I'm reacting to this because I think Vivax is town and your reasons for voting him are silly. The sooner silly things are dismissed the faster we can return to finding actual scum.
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DoctorH, you're pointing out a lot of odd things in Toad's play but you haven't actually said you think he's scum. Are you waiting for someone else to do it for you? Or do you have reservations about Toadscum?
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On March 01 2013 11:25 WaveofShadow wrote:
So...nobody has had a look at MilkSuckler/Mocsta in a little while, and as much as I'd like to, people tend to ignore my shit.
Vivax, Geript, Aquanim and DrH.
Any thoughts regarding him at all before I dive in at some point in the near future?
His case on me felt a lot like town Mocsta. My only reservation is that he's generally more obnoxious as town than scum and I wouldn't describe his play so far as obnoxious (check nomination mafia for a comparison). That's pretty paranoid though and maybe he's trying to change it up with his smurf.
Leaving for a while see you later.
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what
what just happened
what
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@TestSubject, why do you think one of OO and myself is scum?
Also, I'd like to hear your read on layabout.
GG Milkman. Your milk is delicious.
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On March 01 2013 20:03 Toadesstern wrote:
##vote MachoMan
see you in 48 hours.
I don't know IamP's meta and you haven't explained this at all besides "he's scum trust me". Why Macho Man? Lay it out for me.
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On March 01 2013 20:22 Toadesstern wrote:
So if you want me to answer something give me something that I can answer.
On March 01 2013 20:11 Aquanim wrote:
Why Macho Man?
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On March 01 2013 20:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:37 Aquanim wrote:On March 01 2013 20:22 Toadesstern wrote:
So if you want me to answer something give me something that I can answer.
On March 01 2013 20:11 Aquanim wrote:
Why Macho Man? I'm a bit more certain on him. Also people seem to agree about him which makes it less likely I'm wrong about him.
What exactly makes him scummier than Hassybaby?
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Go read Hassy's filter it will take like a minute. Also read this:
+ Show Spoiler +HassybabyJust getting this out of the way first - he's lurked hard to date. His contributions are - Made a pitch for pardoner. Nobody really paid any attention to it at all. - Asks whether OO thinks Prom or Vivax is a good lynch - Defends himself against Vivax for the above, rages at Vivax then leaves. He says he's busy - fine, I understand that. Look at this though. On February 27 2013 07:21 Hassybaby wrote:
A thank you to the guy who reminded me that the game actually started 40 mins after I said I was in. You know who you are and you're awesome and hot (I thought it was starting tonight.) I'm just going to go along and comment as I go down the thread, but have a window open for the most recent stuff, so I can answer/comment on anything immediate as well.
First of, layabout, I've never been so turned on before. That picture is the hottest thing I've seen since Wiggles accidentally turned his camera on during a dota-session Skype call.
While we're on the voting mayor malarky, I'd like to throw my hat in...for the pardoner. My platform:
I won't use it. Like Holy Roman, but without the archbishop crap. I want the case to be that I get pardoner, I'm all "cool" then we move on because it should be only a talking point if I use it, which I have no intention to. And you're all welcome to shoot me if I go back on that.
As fort he major spot, as of page 29, I'm leaning towards VE as mayor. History dictates that VE and Toad are bitches to read for me (I gave up on my brain and went with gut feeling in the last 2 attempts,) and having them in spots of power gives more for me to work with. Toad doesn't want it, so VE it is. My gut agrees for now.
##Vote: VE
Moar readingz! This is his platform for being pardoner. Basically his platform is that he won't use it... which is completely obvious and pretty much assumed of the pardoner. As for "you're all welcome to shoot me if I go back on that", scum would only use the power at LYLO anyway... but I digress. Read this post. Hassybaby thought seriously about this post. This was a serious attempt to become the pardoner. In that case, why do we never hear about this again? Hassybaby doesn't mention the role ever again. And it's not like anyone told him not to try either - in that case it would have been understandable. The only reason I can think of for someone to make a bid for office and then never mention it again is that he's scum and didn't want to make too much noise about it. The fact that he's specifically running for pardoner and has no interest in mayor is suggestive as well. + Show Spoiler +
Now that I think about it, doesn't a scum mayor have a similar effect on LYLO to a scum pardoner? The difference being I suppose that mayor is likely to be under more scrutiny.
There is no tl;dr this case is already rivalling Hassybaby's filter in length
And stop dodging the damn question and tell me what about Macho is scummy.
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On March 01 2013 21:20 Wade Fell wrote:
...we're getting all confused when we should be _focused_ on killing chez.
STOP BEING CONFUSED
EXPLAIN WHY U NO VOTE CHEZ
Because I want to learn something today?
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