TL Mafia LIX

On January 20 2013 13:12 Toadesstern wrote:

getting someone elected who is clearly town should be the priority without a question.

On January 20 2013 13:49 grush57 wrote:
Well I think he meant that everyone is running and whoever is the best scumhunter should get elected.

On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote:
## Vote Sandroba

If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use.

If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position.

Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position.

I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah.

On January 21 2013 09:20 Vivax wrote:




Yamato, you seem to not be able or willing to view things from my position. I do care a lot about who becomes mayor, hence my initial candidacy.

Why am I just voting the guy who is seen as the strongest town player in here and at the same time the guy who finds JieXian scummy along with me? You only mention the "if he's scum"-argument, that looks like you have a predisposition to paint me scummy in the first place...

Why would you want to vote for Chezinu? That is something people that don't care about town would do. I wouldn't put my faith into a guy who speaks in riddles.

On January 21 2013 09:49 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato



Hello yamato.

Why would you like a dearestsnot election?

Who do you think is scum besides me?

On January 21 2013 09:55 Vivax wrote:


1. And why would you want to know why Toad wouldn't want to elect WBG if you don't want to elect him?

2. Wrong answer bro. You find people scummy for attacking Chezinu? Why only me and not FH or prplhz? Cause I want to elect the potentially strongest townie into that seat?

On January 21 2013 10:09 Vivax wrote:


1. Cause

a) In reality you don't give a shit about WBG being elected
b) You don't suspect Toad to be scum anyway.

So your question was pointless, you just tried to ask some random shit to look like you're contributing.

2. I don't want to vote for Chezinu cause he trolls and is almost impossible to read. The Chezinu rule has nothing to do with this, you're just mentioning it for I don't know what reason. Probably cause you can't explain why you ignore everyone else speaking against a Chezinu mayor.

I am scummy for voting the strongest town player in here. Ok. Speaks for itself.

Yamato is scum.

On January 21 2013 10:17 Toadesstern wrote:

I wouldn't suggest Yamato. He's very much "in your face" without thinking to much, which usually is a towntreat for him but there's some things that give me a headache about him.

Also: + Show Spoiler [debears] +
You need to start posting debears.

On January 21 2013 10:25 Toadesstern wrote:

you're both a bunch of idiots to me right now. But that's fine.

On January 21 2013 10:28 Toadesstern wrote:

You're smashing your heads against each other for no particular reason. But that's what people do in mafia.

On January 21 2013 10:31 FiveTouch wrote:


Illogical != scum.

On January 21 2013 10:32 Toadesstern wrote:

no I don't think he's scummy at all.

On January 21 2013 10:39 Toadesstern wrote:

he's like the towniest town in this town.

On January 21 2013 10:56 Djodref wrote:


Clarity for not being being the usual Claritown and not posting when he promised to do so.
I could lynch debears as well for similar reasons.

On January 21 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
What made you change your mind Fivetouch?
I thought your answer to why you didnt want to be mayor was

So what changed?

Yamato





So red flag became null read? Why?

On January 21 2013 11:34 Toadesstern wrote:

I wasn't talking about right now but in general. I do know that it's 3:20 CET.

About why me or Vivax: Because those two are pretty much confirmed town. I'm a bit more so than vivax but the paranoia is too strong in people.

On January 21 2013 11:38 DearestSnot wrote:


Trying to figure out why Toad says things sometimes is a pretty fruitless endeavour.

He says all sorts of shit only to contradict himself in the same or next sentence.

On January 21 2013 11:47 Toadesstern wrote:

because I'm in the position to post like that :3

On January 21 2013 12:05 Mocsta wrote:


Keep up that attitude, and you will get my vote.

On January 21 2013 12:10 Toadesstern wrote:

it's not about youl...

I mean there's a pretty damn well reason why everyone out of Sandro / WBG / FT and myself as both of Vivax and you down as pretty certain town and it's reassuring to see that all 4 of us came to that conclusion (might answer some of those "why are you suddenly talking about a townread" questions). And so far neither of us has explained it so it's not a problem.

So unless you think all 4 of us are mafia there's no reason for you to be concerned right now, unless you're mafia yourself...

Same goes for the way I'm posting. There's reasoning behind it and noone of importance has an issue with it for a reason :3

On January 21 2013 12:11 annul wrote:


blatant OMGUS?

FOS vivax

On January 21 2013 12:35 annul wrote:
conclusion: vivax is either bright red or a really, really unskilled noob at mafia. not pro-town right now in any capacity

On January 21 2013 12:44 annul wrote:
also, toad's read on vivax is pretty questionable. vivax is playing very not-pro-town right now and toad literally thinks he is "the second most confirmed town, next to himself?" waaaaaaaaaat

he is slightly more on the red side of the spectrum for me right now. he accounts for like 12% of the game's posts right now, and he has put a lot of information on the table. if i am right and toad is red, it is certain that he has linked himself to other reds in the game based on his day 1 play.

i would not be upset with a vivax day 1 kill, because i think he is red, and 1. it kills a red d1, and 2. it keeps toad on the table and if his play continues to reveal him as being red, then we get 2 days of him digging holes for his team instead of 1 day.

On January 21 2013 12:43 debears wrote:
Btw

I think Djo would be a good lynch option today or tomorow

I'm looking at the vivax/yamato reaction

I believe yamato to be more likely scum out of the two

more coming after i read the last 6 pages

On January 21 2013 09:14 yamato77 wrote:

Vivax wtf kind of post is this?

Vote for a guy who doesn't want to be mayor, with really shitty "if he's scum" logic. There's never a good reason to give a free lynch to a player you don't have a really good town read on. You're proposing to trade the office of mayor, with the protection and the powerful synergy with mason roles, for a read on a single player that can easily be ascertained otherwise.

Why do you seem to care so little for who becomes mayor if it isn't you? You "don't like" Austin or gonzaw, but you don't say why. You seem ready to discredit Chezinu on a moment's notice, when I see him as a valid candidate.

This is not constructive town posting, Vivax. You've done very little but worry about your own image so far this game and it's worrisome to me that you're reacting so negatively to people not wanting to elect you.

On January 21 2013 13:16 Toadesstern wrote:


the point is that you keep on posting "guy is annoying / disagrees with me therefore he has to be mafia" and people have repeatetly told you so. In every single game, every single read I have ever seen from you and you're doing it again. That's not a mafiatreat. I have yet to see a single reason for lynching anyone you porposed as "mafia" because nothing you mentioned comes even close to being something a mafia is likely to do instead of a townie.

You know, like stuff that was mentioned about oats, the fact that he felt like defending someone out of nowhere for no reason, which, as you might have realized as well is something that everyone out of WBG / Sandro / Five / myself has mentioned as something incredibly scummy, except for Annul.

Yet you're sitting here telling me Annul is your savior while Sandro / WBG / Five / myself (+Vivax because everyone but you thinks he's town?!?) are all mafia scheming some ridiculious 4 man mafia plan.

On January 21 2013 13:31 Djodref wrote:


@ Yamato

Why the scum read on me ?

On January 21 2013 13:25 Mocsta wrote:
yamato.. i have to agree with toad on this one (unfortunately)

that listing was stupid, and contains all the active vets.

your trying to canabilize active players for whatever fallacies you choose.


I am suspicious of Toads motives currently; but there are also a bunch of people who have posted SWEET FUCK ALL in over 24hrs.. How convenient that we are canibalizing....


As for oats being scum.. I said I would read his filter. When I get home from work, I will do so.
Djo's points on oats, on first glance read well... but will make up my mind after filter check.

On January 21 2013 13:38 Toadesstern wrote:

Do you honestly think Vivax would be send out by his (supposedly) mafia team for a candacy as mayor?
Do you honestly think Vivax would be so carefree as mafia to candidate for mayor and not post for the next *idk* bunch of hours?
Don't you think Vivax would have been way to scared to candidate for mayor as mafia? Especially given his recent game as mafia that he, against all odds still won due to massive town modkills.
Do you honestly think Vivax would be dropping a vote like that if he has multiple people in irc / QT / whatever to ask on who to vote? With that "reasoning" he provided? Sure it's bullshit, it's one of the most retarded posts I've seen in this game so far but do you really think he'd do that as mafia?

Mafias think about what they're posting and while it might happen that they slip it is an incredibly far fetched assumption to believe team mafia would send out someone like vivax, who is a very new player, who isn't particularry known for being good as mafia + Show Spoiler [anecdote] + to stay in the open, getting heat from everyone and do all that on purpose?

You've got to be kidding me if you think those are mafiatreats.

On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote:
Yamato, the chances of Vivax being scum are kind of low I think. He's had a LOT of posts, even more than when he was town in games like Can't Believe and the like. Also seems too confident to be scum.
At worst let him be for a few days, if he's scum he'll surely "break" and go lurking or something.

Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1.

On January 21 2013 13:50 Djodref wrote:


So do you want to lynch me because I'm useless or because I'm scum ?
What do you make a my last post about Oats ?

+ Show Spoiler [here] +

On January 21 2013 13:55 gonzaw wrote:
I only remember debears claiming SK on that other game, I don't remember any other games from his. Does he act like this as scum (troll and not give a shit about anything)? He has his previous games in his profile so I'll go check some of those

On January 21 2013 14:05 Toadesstern wrote:
gonzaw would you be supporting five + vivax as a mayor + sheriff team?

I really consider it very unlikely to have enough people willing to give me DT-protection (not that I need it but that's what people are afraid of) to make it myself.
It might be an incredibly good idea to make me sheriff though... You're not a stupid boy, you know what's going on, right? :p

On January 21 2013 22:14 FiveTouch wrote:
yamato, you need to listen to what I have to say without being defensive. From the manner of your posting, and your difficulties as scum last game, I consider it likely you are town this game.



It's good, at least, that you recognise your own confirmation bias with regards to Toad. Mostly your issues with Toad's play come down to the fact that you don't agree with plenty of things he has said, and you heavily dislike his delivery, which you see as condescending or antagonistic. These are not good reasons to think somebody is mafia. So take a step back and reassess; in LVIII you tunneled an active player constantly, right up to the moment he flipped town.

This is not a game of veterans vs newer players. It's town vs mafia. If the veterans are not communicating effectively, then they/we need to work on that, but in a similar vein, the newer players need to listen to what we have to say, because we have a lot of experience.



This post (and similar ones you have made) demonstrate a faulty, destructive mindset. You were in the last game where mafia lurked and twiddled their thumbs while watching town burn themselves to the ground. But you are pushing the idea that lurkers are "lynch-bait", which is effectively a statement of intent that you will protect lurkers on this basis, and go after more 'active' players. So it's a direct encouragement to lurk for mafia. Incidentally Mocsta looks better to me now for picking up on this himself.

The case on prplhz is not merely that he's lurking (else we could apply this to various others). The case is that he entered the thread pushing a policy idea he's said he hates as town, the case is that he came in trolling which he only does as mafia and not as town, the case is that he's posting little and not encouraging others to post like he does as town, the case is that his only major post yesterday was ranting at bugs and not caring about town or the mayor, or a lynch. His attitude so far is mafia-oriented, and this is backed up by his history.

Further, you seem to agree with my Oats read. What exactly is the problem we're having?

On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato

Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else):

You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam.
You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences.
Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly.

@ debears

Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice.
I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat.

@ gonzaw

There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer.
I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me.

@ Toad

I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town.
I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot.
You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve.
I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages.
If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm.
But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play.
How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more.

I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information.

I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way.
Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts.

I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet.

You will absolutely not regret me being elected.

On January 21 2013 22:48 Vivax wrote:
Lol yamato. It's going to be hard for you to keep up the acting, you are trying to look so indignant and angry.

Say, why do you think Djodref is scum?

Would you support a candidate who wants to lynch him?

On January 21 2013 23:06 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato

Then I assume, since me and Toad are probably not going to get lynched today, that you will vote for the candidate that lynches Djo?

@ Oatsmaster


Would you support me/Toad/Sandro as elected role?
If FT stops wanting to lynch you, will you support him?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

After looking at his meta, I support a prplhz lynch as well.

I especially looked at his town meta:

Looney lynching - town

→ More outspoken, more active, doesn't act as much as like he's not giving fuck as he does in this game.

Rockband Mini - town

→ Shares reads very early, opposes random lynching (here he asks for Chez lynch immediately).
Doesn't act like he doesn't give a fuck (as here). Significantly becomes more active when his mislynch is gaining steam. He posts a lot with not much time difference between the posts.

On January 22 2013 02:13 austinmcc wrote:

Did you play with him in the other three games linked above?

If so, does his play this game look identical to those?
If not, does his play this game look identical to those?

On January 22 2013 03:00 Vivax wrote:
Well, JX. If you elected me into office that would give you a lot of townie points.

You have to understand that it's concerning when people think my low activity was scummy when they don't take my time zone into consideration.
And even if they did, there is no proper reasoning behind mafia posting a candidacy and then going lurky.

I obviously check people attacking me cause I'm town.

Yamato says I'm not a complete noob cause I kinda busted two of three scum D1 in an obs qt of a recent game. But I think I am getting too cocky.

On January 22 2013 03:10 Vivax wrote:


It's not. Scum knows I'm town, so they have no interest into electing me. If JX says he might elect me, then I see it as a townie point.

You need to work on taking the point of view of a townie.

But maybe that's not the point you're making. How is it a scum claim?

On January 22 2013 03:17 yamato77 wrote:

You are trading a vote on you for "townie points" to a person you were earlier suspicious of.

You explain away your half-assed mayoral campaign on time zone differences.

You justify your stupid OMGUS with shitty logic.

And to top it all off, you downplay your own ability to play the game in a situation where it is beneficial for people to think of you as less skilled.

Scum claim.

On January 22 2013 03:45 Toadesstern wrote:
and we're back to this again.

On January 22 2013 03:51 Toadesstern wrote:

Well I have no control over his actions

On January 22 2013 03:51 sandroba wrote:

His post on you was pretty palmarish. I think he means well, but I'm actually not so sure about prpl. A lot of his posts seem genuine to me.

On January 22 2013 08:27 Toadesstern wrote:

what do you make of the information that I'm a masoned and masoned Sandro 10 secs into d1? Think I'd do that as mafia?

On January 22 2013 08:41 Vivax wrote:
→ implying he thought I've been masoned when he said me and Toad are scum together.
→ implying it makes sense for a scum toad to contact sandro.

On January 22 2013 14:33 DearestSnot wrote:
I personally don't find any reason to defend grush's play as townlike, nor do I find it plausible that he is actually as readable as yamato says he is.

Certainly, there are games in which grush has made himself relatively readable but I don't think this is one of them.

Note that I don't think there's necessarily any reason to call grush scum either, but I do think that people like him need to be threatened with lynch more, as the forum suffers greatly from indirectly encouraging that type of play. I think it needs to end so that games aren't overloaded with deadweight townies.

On January 22 2013 14:35 Mocsta wrote:
Well regardless.. I meant what I said about the appeal to authority.

The vets obviously know more about the game than we do.. they can use that experience to aid us, or abuse us.. I think they keep saying.. "vet says do it this way" to test if we have the balls to think for ourselves. if we capitulate and give in, we are just useless townies that town/mafia vets can exploit as needed.

If vets provide substantiated reads; at least I can make a judgement on whether they are trying to help town or not.

On January 22 2013 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Useless post Mocsta.
Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point?

On January 22 2013 15:10 DearestSnot wrote:
don't forget, there are double lynches this game.

We can vote for a double lynch tomorrow, and I think we should. On day 3 a double lynch will be really really helpful, seeing as it's probably the only time we'll have enough useful people who are still alive to organize a proper lynch effort to make it worthwhile, and at the same time we will probably be needing extra KP to get rid of people who aren't doing anything.

If we choose not to enact double lynch tomorrow then it will encourage further lurking on the part of mafia.

On January 22 2013 15:46 debears wrote:
All you people can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Every time we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life

Original Message From grush57:

Sorry I thought the host would reply and confirm it or something.
I think your town because of your posts, and thats why I masoned you.
I think gonzaw is townie, good posts.
I don't like vivax.
Crazy de-lurk by mkfuba
I would get behind a chezinu mayor spot.

On January 22 2013 22:59 FiveTouch wrote:


There really is no reason for a mafia mayor to lynch one of his team-mates on Day 1. An often neglected aspect of mafia lynches on Day 1 especially is that it gives a large amount of information on a lot of players in the game. There's far more to be gleaned from a mafia flip than a town flip, so the lynch isn't just about me, it's about all the players.

I pushed my candidates in an open and transparent way, and perhaps even more importantly I managed to close the chasm that was threatening to open between the more experienced and the newer players.

I'll continue to play in the same vein, and people can continue to judge me on my play, but there is no reason to think I could be mafia.

A question for you Axle - given you were so against electing a smurf on the basis of readability, how does this line up with your decision to support Chezinu, another player notoriously difficult to read?

On January 23 2013 00:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yamato, why did you feel the need to answer that question?

On January 23 2013 00:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Was it aimed at you? I dont think so.
Was it even aimed at learning more about Chez? I dont think so.

On January 23 2013 00:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
I am this close to screaming my head off yamato, thank you.
Gonna ignore what you said until it makes sense.

On January 23 2013 04:11 sandroba wrote:
@grush I'm waiting on some explanation on that mason deal. Please enlighten me of your thought process when using that role.

On January 23 2013 04:22 sandroba wrote:
I actually reread annul's filter and I found some townie tidbits in it. If you are a vig please shoot into stutters/bke.

On January 23 2013 04:45 mkfuba07 wrote:

I think austin is still working through the thread. He just came to sandroba's mason discussion I think. I'm also interested in what people (particularly grush) have to say about the yamato/grush mason post, but I don't really know what to make of it either.

A quick question that I think I know the answer to but I want to confirm. Are bodyguards alerted to the fact that they're bodyguards, or do only the elected officials know who they are?

On January 23 2013 06:33 annul wrote:



its wifom to decide "what scum___ would do" and besides, i do not use metagame analyses whatsoever in my reads.

however, if i, personally, were a mafia mason, i would love to be sheriff, because this is a massive hit to the town if so.

however, if i were mafia at all, i would have an infinitely better play.

On January 23 2013 06:34 annul wrote:


TYL there is a difference between attacking someone and flat-out calling them red.

but yes, i AM attacking you. and you have already "heard this one" -- read my posts. it's pretty simple to do.

On January 23 2013 06:40 annul wrote:
and yes, that is a pretty major difference. i know (not "suspect" not "guess" not "analyze") what i would do in each situation; therefore, it is not wifom for me to say this about myself. whether you believe it is up to you, but looking at the situation and applying them to see if they fit (inductive logic) is a fine move to make

On January 23 2013 06:33 annul wrote:



its wifom to decide "what scum___ would do" and besides, i do not use metagame analyses whatsoever in my reads.

however, if i, personally, were a mafia mason, i would love to be sheriff, because this is a massive hit to the town if so.

however, if i were mafia at all, i would have an infinitely better play.

On January 23 2013 06:43 annul wrote:


how can i possibly be fanning the flames of YOUR suspicions? the phrasing of that is off. more like "you were fanning the flames of MY suspicions, but stopped for some reason."

On January 23 2013 10:58 annul wrote:
btw mafia has 2 KP, so the third death is either town vig/jack or mafia jack using their shoot power.

On January 23 2013 11:03 annul wrote:
go fuck yourself

On January 23 2013 11:05 annul wrote:
i am not worried about being lynched.

On January 23 2013 21:18 Vivax wrote:
I'm not calling you retard. I'm calling you scum.

You didn't save the guy you consider to be the best townie in this game to jail whom? Bugs? I'm not buying it. That isn't solid play and doesn't align with your view on sandro.
If I think you're scum then it's cause I would expect a higher standard from you as town.

Scum hit 3/3 despite the huge insecurities in play. Especially the hit on sandroba was super risky. If they took that risk they should have taken the risk of hitting Bugs just to be sure, but they didn't. They went in precisely like a swiss clock.

They took two players that weren't particularly threatening for them and that weren't particularly threatened by a lynch.

Spit out who you are masoning this cycle.

On January 24 2013 03:51 Vivax wrote:


For example you not being your tunnely self -you usually are as town- since day1 despite trying to look like you feel suspicious about certain things.

Sorry, Napoleon. I know you shouldn't tell your enemies when they make mistakes.

On January 24 2013 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Why did you take all this time just to dodge my questions and call me an idiot though?

You could post counter-examples.

On January 24 2013 05:04 Vivax wrote:
Why are you saying that FT is town but gonzaw isn't

On January 20 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok, so my plan for voting for the mayor is to vote for a mayor,
1) I think that is town
2) I think that is able to smack down(figure out) the scum.
So basically, standerd stuff.

So far, Gonzaw has a lot of activity but ima wait and see if its town motivated or scum motivated.
I dont like Vivax entrance and subsequent disappearance but I mean its a null tell. He has got to know he would be called out like that.

Axle, Please try to make your posts coherent to the people here, if we dont understand you, you will get ignored/lynched/vigged/unlikely nk

On January 22 2013 02:58 debears wrote:


Unless the mafia sub in for both bodyguards, the sheriff and mayor cannot be nked until the bodyguards are taken down. That means that we should place good town players who are likely to get nked in the mayor and sheriff spots.

Vivax is not by any means a player at threat of being nked as town. He doesn't have good reads.

Austin and Gonzaw are two players that are nk targets as town and have good reads from what I have heard. I'd say either of them is a good choice for sheriff, with Gonzaw preferred

On January 23 2013 10:42 debears wrote:
Btw, I say we take the focus of oats and me for today. I'll get nked tomorrow. If Oats is town he will too.

##vote annul
##vote double lynch

On January 23 2013 12:00 debears wrote:
Annul, reads plz. If you aren't going to defend yourself, give reads and reasoning and help us obi-wan. That's plenty enough contribution

On January 24 2013 01:37 debears wrote:


Austin, we have lurkers in clarity, BK, and fuba.

We have a scummy annul. We have a scummy Gonzaw

We had questionable nks.

What reason isn't there for double lynch?

1) We have to find a way to rid of these damn lurkers
2) I am 95% sure 5touch is town. Toad is looking town to me at this point also (his alignment will be figured out anyways eventually). Use them while we got them.
3) I will very very likely die tonight. I want to help what little I can before then

On January 24 2013 15:31 debears wrote:
I am not comfortable with lynching Gonzaw currently over annul and BKE

Upon closer inspection of his town games listed, and a couple of his scum games, I found that his posting style of convincing someone of their scumminess is a trait of his town games.

I only looked a little in the scum ones and I didn't see it

I didn't see anything in terms of him defending himself against a scumread's accusations in either

That would leave me wanting to lynch Gonzaw based on
1) His running for mayor (scum having to have someone run)
2) Him trying to convince 5touch to lynch oats over prplhz


I'm still waiting on an answer over whether the mayor/sheriff can be killed in the same night as a bodyguard.

If so, then I agree with not lynching Oats.
If the mayor/sheriff can't be killed on the same night, we should take that into consideration of lynching oats

On January 22 2013 00:22 debears wrote:
5touch I agree with a prplhz lynch.

He hasn't scumhunted. He has dedicated himself to defending himself with previous games and making no contributions to the town

On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote:
Yamato, the chances of Vivax being scum are kind of low I think. He's had a LOT of posts, even more than when he was town in games like Can't Believe and the like. Also seems too confident to be scum.
At worst let him be for a few days, if he's scum he'll surely "break" and go lurking or something.

Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1.

On January 21 2013 05:53 gonzaw wrote:
Well...it seems i have the habit of posting here when nobody else is around to respond back (or post about other things) so I like quadriple post lol

.....maybe I'm doing that intentionally as scum! :O :O >_>

On January 21 2013 06:00 gonzaw wrote:
It's hard to "consolidate posts". People make it seem like it's so easy.

When I play the game I don't "think consolidately". I find a bunch of stuff and have a bunch of thoughts, which can't really be "consolidated" into a nice single perfect post.

I'm going to my aunts house in like 1 hour anyway so I'll let you guys breathe for a moment

On January 24 2013 16:22 Toadesstern wrote:
anyone doubting debears look at the timestamp of his vote on d1...

On January 24 2013 16:28 Toadesstern wrote:

again, look at the timestamp. Debears was like the first guy to vote palmar.

On January 24 2013 16:36 Toadesstern wrote:
He's still one of the first voters you voted Palmar once he changed his lynch to Prplhz
He's still a bodyguard while both Palmar and I are both still alive.

There's absolutely no reason to discuss debears right now.

On January 13 2013 09:05 Oatsmaster wrote:

OOO I like this post.
Explain how I have derailed thread convo.
How have I dodged questions.
Where are the irrelevent questions.

TO EVERYONE:
I see no town motivation for your behaviour.

Notice how he doesnt say that my behaviour is scummy. Notice.

Mocsta, do you want to lynch people for being bad or for being scum?

On January 13 2013 20:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok posters with little to no content
laguerta
Trotske
Acid~
glurio

Posters that seem to be trolling the shit out of the thread
Bringniga

##Vote: bringaniga
Its less than 12 hours to lynch and I know that you are active. Please contribute in a manner that will help town

Either we lynch them, or lynch an active player.
Also, in case you guys didnt read the OP or dont know, its plurality lynch so the person with the most votes at the end of the day will get lynched. THEREFORE there is no need to consolidate to lynch. HOWEVER town should consolidate in order to prevent scum from being able to affect the final vote with a last minute vote switch

On January 13 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta stop being useless and repeating what other people have already said.

On January 13 2013 08:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta, you are looking awfully scummy.
In fact, im gonna vote you.
After I show how you are scum


What is wrong with sounding paranoid? Do you instantly believe what the other person says? This is scummy because Town wants paranoid players to find scum and scum want believing players to manipulate.





Scum also want to buddy the most active town player in the thread so that they wont get pushed by him.
Mocsta, how does this post add to the 'conversation' you keep talking about?



Come on, show how me and sno-man are not stimulating conversation? Not being all friendly and nice isnt a scumtell you know.
Like what is a genuine comment? Sounds like fluff you are throwing out there because you cant respond to my post.



Ok mentioning the lurkers which everyone can see... Looks involved but has no point in stimulating conversation.
The first question he asked Trotske is hilarious. 'Do you think that my posts on them were scummy?'
That is not a townie mindset. At all. Because town is more concerned about finding scum, than caring how they look to the other players.
2. Again, what is the point in asking this question? It looks good at first glance but this can be adequately be answered in great detail by both scum and town so what he is trying to get out of it?
He is trying to see if people agree with the oats/sno lynch.

Mocsta, either shape up or die.

##Vote: Mocsta

On January 13 2013 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hey Mocsta, what was the point of your opening questions? Do you think you achieved your goal?

On January 13 2013 18:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
How the fuck am I intimidating town from contributing?
Please actually quote, it irritates me when you say I am wrong about you and you leave it at that.

Thanks for not telling me how to change.



How does aggressive posts stop fluid and positive town conversation?
What is your idea of a good town conversation Mocsta?


I started the scumhunting? How does town collaborate when no one knows who else is town?

If people dont want to post, then that is their problem. I shouldnt have to force people to post right?


I was scum in this game
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385389

Explain please

On January 25 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Austin, you're derp, I already wrote gonzaw used his powers. He's the guy who used the extra shot N1 and today he's been masoning.

Don't believe FT is town just cause of the D1 lynch. People elected him to kill prplhz, so that's what he would do, along with getting massive cred.

On January 25 2013 01:44 Toadesstern wrote:
so justs to get this straight, he claimed DT and claimed to get back his alignment + roles, correct?

That should be easy enough to confirm, give me a sec.

On January 25 2013 01:47 Vivax wrote:
I don't know if gonzaw was mason today or yesterday night, that's what I ended up believing.

I asked the host about that and a few bunch other things but he's been ignoring all my questions this game.

Given how scum is riding on that point it was rather yesterday night I guess.

On January 25 2013 03:28 Vivax wrote:


It's also telling that yamato posts this after he just finished to post something against gonzaw when the lynch wasn't going anywhere before the claim.

"What are you saying Vivax, I am not setting myself up for a bus, I had gonzaw as target for a long time"

"What are you doing Vivax, town was heading to an Oats lynch and you get gonzaw lynched with a claim?"

Seriously, yamato is so bad as scum, I would lynch him with a spoon.

On January 25 2013 14:55 DearestSnot wrote:
I'd like to hear from anyone who wants to speak with me.

Talk to me.

Mocsta, interested?

Talk to me about who can be scum in your opinion and why. Perhaps even who can't.

In WBG's advice corner for tonight, remember that at this stage of the game, townreads can be just as useful, if not even more useful, than scumreads. Perhaps it's best to keep those to ourselves for now, though. Happy scumhunting!

On January 25 2013 15:36 Mocsta wrote:
[fluff]

After this game I would love to know how u guys make notes etc

i just read the thread, and get a gut feeling.. if i dont like someone, i read the filter and then makes notes as im reading the filter

you guys seem to make notes as you read the thread; and seem to have detailed noted on all players

is that correct?

On January 25 2013 16:47 AxleGreaser wrote:
@YAMato77

Why did you vote for an Annul lynch at the start of D2?

perhaps more importantly why did you vote for it when you did?

On January 26 2013 01:38 Vivax wrote:


*raises hand*

On January 26 2013 01:39 FiveTouch wrote:


There are two good reasons that Axle could be mafia.

Firstly, his significant drop-off in activity.

Secondly, the mayoral candidates he supported on Day 1 were firstly Chezinu, and then gonzaw. This is suspicious by itself.

On January 26 2013 01:46 FiveTouch wrote:


His activity in the town-game never dropped off in the middle of the game for a sustained period like it has here.

And "I'm not sure he's aware to do all these scummy things" isn't a good defence for anybody. The fact is, those were his votes. He voted for the mafia in the running for Sheriff quite late in the day. This is very suspicious.

On January 26 2013 01:50 Vivax wrote:


1. If Toad is town he would jail him tonight, so there's not even a point in discussing this now.

We can't be totally sure of the outcome cause there might be a protection somewhere. But if there's a medic protecting and he claims then we will know that the extra KP is missing cause of that and not cause BKE is scum.

I doubt scum would sacrifice a KP to push a BKE mislynch for the next day.

Toad could also act not according to what he said so far and jail me, Bugs or anyone else for example. That leaves the danger open that he will still push for a BKE lynch tomorrow.

2. Other than that, you can't have a good read on people with low activity like BKE. Pushing for a lynch on him is comfortable, you don't need to tell many reasons.

Sadly, I can't check Toad and FT who are pushing for his lynch.

@ Bugs


Why are you ok with the mason information being withheld?

On January 26 2013 02:02 Vivax wrote:


Why don't you consider the option of being framed though?

On January 26 2013 02:05 Vivax wrote:
Wouldn't that be the point where the game got really interesting though?

People shouting you have been framed
People shouting I'm lying
People shouting you're the godfather
People shouting we lynch you first

A really productive mayhem it would be

On January 26 2013 13:21 mkfuba07 wrote:
I didn't say that. I'm looking at the possibilities outlined by toad and DS. They were pretty significantly convinced that BKE and chezinu are scum, and that leaves the three of us from their list. I know that one of those three is not mafia (that is me). The remaining two are you and mocsta.

I'd actually like to know what FT thinks of their conclusion.