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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 24 2013 04:50 Vivax wrote: Why did you take all this time just to dodge my questions and call me an idiot though? You could post counter-examples. I really just don't give a shit about your opinion. You're not going to get me lynched anyway so what's the point? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Are you going to get me lynched? No. Are you trying to associate me with FT? That's fine, I don't care, he's town, I'm town, and we're fucking happy about it. Are you trying to associate me with Gonzaw like you did with Toad? Really productive there. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 24 2013 05:04 Vivax wrote: Why are you saying that FT is town but gonzaw isn't Because I haven't had the time to filter Gonzaw yet. Seriously, just leave this alone. If by some fucking miracle you are town you need to realize you're pursuing an unproductive line of thought in believing that Ft/Toad/Yamato/Gonzaw is the four-man scum team you're looking for. Right now I'm far more inclined to think you're just mafia shitting up the thread and causing confusion. I would kill you except for FT's read on you. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 20 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok, so my plan for voting for the mayor is to vote for a mayor, 1) I think that is town 2) I think that is able to smack down(figure out) the scum. So basically, standerd stuff. So far, Gonzaw has a lot of activity but ima wait and see if its town motivated or scum motivated. I dont like Vivax entrance and subsequent disappearance but I mean its a null tell. He has got to know he would be called out like that. Axle, Please try to make your posts coherent to the people here, if we dont understand you, you will get ignored/lynched/vigged/unlikely nk This post of Oats, along with other things like his willingness to give out reads, his overall activity level, and his fairly unnecessary (if mafia) case on Gonzaw, makes me believe that he is town. The fact that he's continued to pursue his read on Gonzaw today is quite telling to me. When he posted the case at night, I believed he would have done so with the idea that it was cheap town cred to do something like this at night when there was no lynch on the line. However, today I see that he's fairly invested in the idea that Gonzaw is mafia, something that I feel a lot of people are at the moment. Basically, if you think Gonzaw is mafia, Oats is far likelier to be town. Plus, I agree with WBG's logic regarding the BGs, and not lynching them at the moment. Unless you are absolutely certain Oats is mafia, I do not feel like it is worth it to lynch him today. That's my thought on that situation. I think he might be town, and I'm not sold on lynching him yet even if others believe otherwise because he, if town, is valuable protection for our elected roles. On to my updated mafia reads: If I take seriously the idea that Oats is town, I have to consider the possibility that Debears is not. Debears' only contribution is a case on Oats, which is quite weak. Mafia debears would want Oats lynched, because that would mean that mafia gets to shoot into both Toad and FT tonight, or at any point in the future. While this would instantly out his as confirmed mafia, I'm not sure how confident I am with the idea that mafia wouldn't trade one of their own for our two elected roles, especially the mayor. Plus, people would be content to sit on the idea of town debears until the mayor/sheriff gets shot, which is quite useful. It's basically lynch immunity. On January 22 2013 02:58 debears wrote: Unless the mafia sub in for both bodyguards, the sheriff and mayor cannot be nked until the bodyguards are taken down. That means that we should place good town players who are likely to get nked in the mayor and sheriff spots. Vivax is not by any means a player at threat of being nked as town. He doesn't have good reads. Austin and Gonzaw are two players that are nk targets as town and have good reads from what I have heard. I'd say either of them is a good choice for sheriff, with Gonzaw preferred This post, and many like it, show that debears is fairly preoccupied with the idea of Bodyguards and their potential protection powers. When I was mafia, and I was attempting to bluesnipe, one of the quickest tells you can pick up on is who seems preoccupied with blues in general, or a specific role such as doctor. Debears may have already has the idea in his head on Day 1 to make this sort of play as mafia, to sub himself in as a BG and use this "unlynchable" status to his advantage. Aside from this, debears has been fairly inactive, and hasn't pursued his scum reads very strongly. He posted a case on Gonzaw (that had him as slight scum, rofl), and then backed off of it later. He has a "case" on Oats, but he earlier posted this: On January 23 2013 10:42 debears wrote: Btw, I say we take the focus of oats and me for today. I'll get nked tomorrow. If Oats is town he will too. ##vote annul ##vote double lynch So we know he doesn't want to lynch Oats. Who does he want to lynch? Annul. Why? On January 23 2013 12:00 debears wrote: Annul, reads plz. If you aren't going to defend yourself, give reads and reasoning and help us obi-wan. That's plenty enough contribution On January 24 2013 01:37 debears wrote: Austin, we have lurkers in clarity, BK, and fuba. We have a scummy annul. We have a scummy Gonzaw We had questionable nks. What reason isn't there for double lynch? 1) We have to find a way to rid of these damn lurkers 2) I am 95% sure 5touch is town. Toad is looking town to me at this point also (his alignment will be figured out anyways eventually). Use them while we got them. 3) I will very very likely die tonight. I want to help what little I can before then On January 24 2013 15:31 debears wrote: I am not comfortable with lynching Gonzaw currently over annul and BKE Upon closer inspection of his town games listed, and a couple of his scum games, I found that his posting style of convincing someone of their scumminess is a trait of his town games. I only looked a little in the scum ones and I didn't see it I didn't see anything in terms of him defending himself against a scumread's accusations in either That would leave me wanting to lynch Gonzaw based on 1) His running for mayor (scum having to have someone run) 2) Him trying to convince 5touch to lynch oats over prplhz I'm still waiting on an answer over whether the mayor/sheriff can be killed in the same night as a bodyguard. If so, then I agree with not lynching Oats. If the mayor/sheriff can't be killed on the same night, we should take that into consideration of lynching oats He gives zero reason. He just calls him "scummy". I don't like this sort of thing at all. The speed at which he voted for annul also to me indicates that this is a mafia vote, because he did it early in the day and with zero prior mention of annul. These four posts are the only ones he even mentions annul in at all, and they've all been in day 2. Very weird to me. In that last post he also says he'd be willing to lynch BKE, but he's never mentioned him before either, and indeed doesn't even bother to provide a reason. So what about prphlz? He supported that lynch day 1, right? On January 22 2013 00:22 debears wrote: 5touch I agree with a prplhz lynch. He hasn't scumhunted. He has dedicated himself to defending himself with previous games and making no contributions to the town That's his only mention about his own read on prplhz. All of this I believe is indicative of a blendy mafia mindset, something I find pervasive throughout his filter. Not many of his reads seem original to him at all. His low activity suggests not wanting to be in the spotlight. I don't believe he's actively playing the game in a way I think town debears would, because town debears is characteristically more convinced of his own reads, a la Hero Mini where he was hyper aggressive day 1 in pursuing his target. Now, for the same reason WBG gave for not lynching Oats, I don't think we should lynch Debears either. But if I had to pick a mafia out of the two BG's, I would actually pick debears. Oats is greener to me. So, who else do I think is mafia, and which of them do I want to lynch today? Vivax could still be mafia. While a lot of the vets have previously had him as town, even they are less certain of this idea than they were before. However, if he is mafia I don't think he's going to get any better and we will have more information to lynch him with at a later date. Unless he continues to be completely anti-town for the rest of today, I don't think he's a particularly good lynch, and I don't think many other people do either. Annul might be mafia, as he's played similar to Vivax today, but I actually feel less confident about lynching him because of how easy it is for everyone to call him town. There's literally been zero resistance to lynching him today aside from other people giving out their own mafia reads and trying to get them lynched. I don't think a single person has called him even somewhat town, though I may be wrong because I've only skimmed the last ten pages. I don't like lynching him today. Gonzaw is an interesting idea. On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Yamato, the chances of Vivax being scum are kind of low I think. He's had a LOT of posts, even more than when he was town in games like Can't Believe and the like. Also seems too confident to be scum. At worst let him be for a few days, if he's scum he'll surely "break" and go lurking or something. Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. He has a few of these types of posts in his filter, where he softdefends a player (often Vivax actually) and generally gives weak reads. I don't feel like he's taken many strong stances with his reads this game. Even his opposition of the prplhz lynch was fairly weak. On January 21 2013 05:53 gonzaw wrote: Well...it seems i have the habit of posting here when nobody else is around to respond back (or post about other things) so I like quadriple post lol .....maybe I'm doing that intentionally as scum! :O :O >_> Also, he has a few of these posts in his filter, where he seems particularly preoccupied with his own image, and how town perceives the things he's doing. As I just finished typing in my analysis of another mafia player in NMM XXXIII. preoccupation with town's perception is a mafia tell, as they are more likely to care about how they are perceived than town. On January 21 2013 06:00 gonzaw wrote: It's hard to "consolidate posts". People make it seem like it's so easy. When I play the game I don't "think consolidately". I find a bunch of stuff and have a bunch of thoughts, which can't really be "consolidated" into a nice single perfect post. I'm going to my aunts house in like 1 hour anyway so I'll let you guys breathe for a moment  He even goes so far as to defend his spammy nature, something that I, as town, feel completely unmotivated to justify. While this is indicative of how I feel on the matter, that I just post what I think at the time I think it, I do not feel the need to justify this mindset. However, Gonzaw obviously does, which again leads me to believe that he is concerned with his image. This idea is also reinforced with the concept that running for mayor and being active on D1 are two easy ways to get people to have cheap town reads on you. While this is not a strong mafia tell, it is what I have managed to find in his filter after a short bit of diving. I am fairly confident in the possibility of him being mafia for these reasons, along with those that the rest of town has posted. I will resume my filter dive of him tomorrow, and either confirm my own bias or perhaps see something that might change my mind. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
not town, lol | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 24 2013 16:22 Toadesstern wrote: anyone doubting debears look at the timestamp of his vote on d1... I do not, at all, believe that a quick wagon on to an obviously strong town player excludes debears from the possible mafia candidates. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Yeah, no. That's really weak. I'm not going to exclude debears just for potentially bussing his own teammate. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 24 2013 16:28 Toadesstern wrote: again, look at the timestamp. Debears was like the first guy to vote palmar. He was the third. Dude, if that's your ONLY reason for thinking he's town it's fucking weak and you need to reassess. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
With zero justification, zero reasoning, and almost no real involvement. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I don't care. I have to get up in five hours and I have a 15 hour day to deal with. Bye. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 24 2013 16:36 Toadesstern wrote: He's still one of the first voters you voted Palmar once he changed his lynch to Prplhz He's still a bodyguard while both Palmar and I are both still alive. There's absolutely no reason to discuss debears right now. You're the one that defended him after I said in the post I didn't want to lynch him today. Like I said, you're free to think what you will, but that's a weak reason to think someone is town. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I need a look at his last town game. Be back later. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 13 2013 09:05 Oatsmaster wrote: OOO I like this post. Explain how I have derailed thread convo. How have I dodged questions. Where are the irrelevent questions. TO EVERYONE: I see no town motivation for your behaviour. Notice how he doesnt say that my behaviour is scummy. Notice. Mocsta, do you want to lynch people for being bad or for being scum? This post of his, and especially the part I bolded, is something he's done quite a lot this game, and it incorporates a couple of facets of his play that I find telling. First of all, he addresses his question, and indeed most of his posting in general, to the loudest/most influential thread presence, in this game that was Mocsta. In NMM, he spends a lot of time interacting with Micsta, just as he has done this game with Vivax early in the game, and FT in the latter half of D1. Perhaps this is just a general tendency of his play, but he has kept with the same sort of behavior there. Secondly, the question itself is one he is oft to repeat. Oats has asked FT whether he believed Oats to be bad/scum on multiple occasions and in many different ways. Again, this is a small thing, but it is the little things that we lose when we play mafia versus when we play town, and Oats is consistent in this manner. On January 13 2013 20:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok posters with little to no content laguerta Trotske Acid~ glurio Posters that seem to be trolling the shit out of the thread Bringniga ##Vote: bringaniga Its less than 12 hours to lynch and I know that you are active. Please contribute in a manner that will help town Either we lynch them, or lynch an active player. Also, in case you guys didnt read the OP or dont know, its plurality lynch so the person with the most votes at the end of the day will get lynched. THEREFORE there is no need to consolidate to lynch. HOWEVER town should consolidate in order to prevent scum from being able to affect the final vote with a last minute vote switch If I'm not wrong, Oats has made a carbon copy of this post this game, calling out inactive players. It also reveals a mindset he has that is reinforced with this: On January 13 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta stop being useless and repeating what other people have already said. He is preoccupied, as town, with the "pro-town" concept of how people are or aren't playing, and gives his opinion. He has many of these sorts of posts and comments in his filter this game, which again is a small tell, but certainly indicative of the fact that he's playing to some degree with the same mindset he would if he was town. Is he a good enough mafia player to fake this? I have no reason to believe so, but it is possible. On January 13 2013 08:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, you are looking awfully scummy. In fact, im gonna vote you. After I show how you are scum What is wrong with sounding paranoid? Do you instantly believe what the other person says? This is scummy because Town wants paranoid players to find scum and scum want believing players to manipulate. Scum also want to buddy the most active town player in the thread so that they wont get pushed by him. Mocsta, how does this post add to the 'conversation' you keep talking about? Come on, show how me and sno-man are not stimulating conversation? Not being all friendly and nice isnt a scumtell you know. Like what is a genuine comment? Sounds like fluff you are throwing out there because you cant respond to my post. Ok mentioning the lurkers which everyone can see... Looks involved but has no point in stimulating conversation. The first question he asked Trotske is hilarious. 'Do you think that my posts on them were scummy?' That is not a townie mindset. At all. Because town is more concerned about finding scum, than caring how they look to the other players. 2. Again, what is the point in asking this question? It looks good at first glance but this can be adequately be answered in great detail by both scum and town so what he is trying to get out of it? He is trying to see if people agree with the oats/sno lynch. Mocsta, either shape up or die. ##Vote: Mocsta This case on Mocsta is quite interesting to me. He makes the same sort of case against Gonzaw, and while that case did not come until N1, it shows the same sort of mindset and play that Oats shows when town. He is overly focused on one person, and is generally only critical or slightly aware of the thread around him. One criticism of Oats this game is that he's "too aggressive", something that I find to be something that characterizes his town game. On January 13 2013 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey Mocsta, what was the point of your opening questions? Do you think you achieved your goal? This, and the post I quoted earlier of him criticizing Mocsta, are two of his first few posts in the game. He continues that type of aggressive language throughout. Him being aggressive is not indicative of him being mafia, it is of him being town. On January 13 2013 18:51 Oatsmaster wrote: How the fuck am I intimidating town from contributing? Please actually quote, it irritates me when you say I am wrong about you and you leave it at that. Thanks for not telling me how to change. How does aggressive posts stop fluid and positive town conversation? What is your idea of a good town conversation Mocsta? I started the scumhunting? How does town collaborate when no one knows who else is town? If people dont want to post, then that is their problem. I shouldnt have to force people to post right? I was scum in this game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385389 Explain please Elements in this post show how he handles suspicion placed on him with town. He obviously doesn't understand it, and indeed finds himself to be pro-town, something I find consistent with his defenses this game. While he may not be as arrogant because there are players better than him playing, he is certainly making an effort to play, in certain ways, similar to his town game. Again, I reach the conclusion that I think Oats is town, and for it, I find Gonzaw more likely to be mafia. Let's lynch him instead. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Who else am I going to lynch after I make a post like that, as mafia? Stop being dumb. Gonzaw has been my focus, and it's silly of you to read everything I'm doing from the strict mindset that I am mafia. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
But, no matter your alignment, town's best play is to lynch Gonzaw here, so let's see some votes. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 25 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote: Austin, you're derp, I already wrote gonzaw used his powers. He's the guy who used the extra shot N1 and today he's been masoning. Don't believe FT is town just cause of the D1 lynch. People elected him to kill prplhz, so that's what he would do, along with getting massive cred. How did you get a check of his role today from a night 1 check? Holy shit you're lying. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 25 2013 01:44 Toadesstern wrote: so justs to get this straight, he claimed DT and claimed to get back his alignment + roles, correct? That should be easy enough to confirm, give me a sec. The fact is, he got back a check from N1 about something he's saying Gonzaw is doing D2. How the fuck does that work? I think they're both mafia. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 25 2013 01:47 Vivax wrote: I don't know if gonzaw was mason today or yesterday night, that's what I ended up believing. I asked the host about that and a few bunch other things but he's been ignoring all my questions this game. Given how scum is riding on that point it was rather yesterday night I guess. The way mason works this game is that you choose a person to mason with for a whole cycle, not day or night, but both. If he shot someone last night as you claim, he would have shown up as mafia jack vig, not mason. The mason would have had to begin today, and you wouldn't get that check back. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Sadly you could still be town because he could have been mason day 1, and you're just being an idiot and assuming he shot N1. | ||
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