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Speak of the devil. Good timing.
In his first post, he already attempts to associate himself (subtlety) as town. Not because he said "I am town" -everyone says that - but because of the breadcrumb. Which he can conveniently play later in the game as "I am town, this is my trademark". I took action to remove the card up his sleeve. If he wants to be considered town, he needs to prove it through his actions.. not token trademarks.
Either way, what directed me his way was the early breadcrumb. But why I have continued to call him out is due precisely to his play.
If you are telling me that after doing a filter check on Grush he is seeping town through his pores, then it makes clear sense why you are a top lynch candidate for Day 2.
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On January 22 2013 15:00 Toadesstern wrote:
I fully agree with what Bugs said about Grush.
Furthermore you have to distinguish between people you want to be shot and people you want to be lynched when looking at people you want to see dead. That is if you have the luxury of doing that.
Lynching Grush would be an awfully terrible idea right now. Because of what bugs said. If that guy ends up flipping town we gave mafia the easiest time looking like they're doing something for an entire cycle because all there is to him is that he's lurkish, useless and ... well grush. Everyone can easily attack him for that and look like he's doing something.
Analyzing what happened afterwards would be really hard as well because there's no reason not to want Grush dead, so I couldn't possibly held people accountable on their actions when choosing to vote Grush or not to vote him.
That's the kind of guy you want to have vigged if you want him dead and not lynched. Not saying he looks townish at all, he doesn't. He's unreadable right now, which is a bad sign considering that I've got at least 50% of this game down as preeeetty certain town right now. So process of elimination works fine with him sometime later as well, which tells me to ignore him again.
You want to lynch people who are looking scummy while not being easy to take a stance on. That's literally everyone who's not a policy lynch because even if it fails, you get something out of that.
Now THATS the vet type insight im looking for, even though its elementary for you guys.
Noted; I have said my piece to the vigis out there and will move on.
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On January 22 2013 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also, why are you so butthurt that Toad keeps spouting that 'vets' reads are more important? Do you want to feel important? Join a mini then :D
Just in case you didnt realise. When I said speak of the devil it was in reference to you.
As for this, its nothing to do with being butthurt.
I will presume you posted that before reading this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=56#1113
If I was a vet, I would be doing exactly the same thing: emotional blackmail of sorts. Its fucking effective too.
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On January 22 2013 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Useless post Mocsta.
Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point?
Why dont you tell me the flaws in my approach if you think it is useless?
Noone else is standing here saying they think Grush is town, yet you feel the need to step in. Why is this the case?
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Oatsmaster
On January 22 2013 11:02 FiveTouch wrote:
Honestly, prplhz's mafia flip just makes Oats look even worse than before.
You asked me to look into an alternative scum read.. This comment from FT piqued my interest.
I did a filter search on you with "prplhz" and found little content other than asking Toad to follow up on mr.hendrix (as he said he would).
I also happened to notice this...
On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
Now I know that you later responded to FT by saying you dismissed the case.. but...
I find your declaration of prplhz being a mislynch to carry too much conviction for me.
Considering I already thought youe had scummy qualities about your play (Mocsta summary of Oats)
The prognosis is NOT looking good for you being town.
So Oatsmaster.. still a useless post? 
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On January 22 2013 15:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Mocsta Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
Apparently you stopped reading after you found something that substantiated your point about me thinking that prp would be a mislynch. Must be an honest mistake and not you trying to misquote me right?
Really?
On January 22 2013 15:39 Mocsta wrote:I also happened to notice this... Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
Now I know that you later responded to FT by saying you dismissed the case.. but...I find your declaration of prplhz being a mislynch to carry too much conviction for me. ...
If that is an honest mistake of yours.. then your a moron..
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On January 22 2013 16:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta. L2R.
[b]
Must be an honest mistake and not you trying to misquote me right?
[b]
Going on to the might be scum read due to the fact that you dont want to admit your mistake.
You can read me however you want.
But I added in your reasoning you gave to FT.. it was not relevant to what I pointed out
which was that the conviction in your post reads as if you knew 100% who is mislynch and who isnt.
That type of certainty is either over-confidence, or you have information others don't.
Considering this game in general your aggression has been toned down, I can not attribute the read to over-confidence.. that leaves us you have information others don't.
In fairness, I did not consider you could be a mason .. but I cant see a reason for you to mason prplhz, so this again becomes moot.
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On January 22 2013 15:49 DearestSnot wrote:
Mocsta you should read more carefully. Oats was against electing FT because FT wanted to kill him.
Upon rereading and looking back at things I actually think Oats is town. Anyone agree?
As soon as FT is back perhaps he can explain further why he thinks Oats actually looks worse, because I disagree on that.
Noted on what you are saying.
I re-read.. I did not think my critique of Oats was related to him being against FT election however?
It was related to his conviction in saying prplhz was a mislynch.
Perhaps you realised this so if you went out of your way to pointing it out prob means Im missing a piece of the puzzle?!?
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On January 22 2013 16:24 Oatsmaster wrote:Mocsta, last time I am mentioning this, its fucking stupid. Show nested quote +
Oatsmaster
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
I am saying that his mislynch WOULD BE ME, cause thats who he said he was gonna lynch at that time. I have no idea how you twisted it into prp would be a mislynch. Read the quotes properly next time so you dont accuse someone on a made-up argument based on misreading a quote.
Fuck sorry man.. your right
Thats embarassing.
I apologise and will go back to work. Obviously I cant multi task.
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On January 22 2013 16:31 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 15:49 DearestSnot wrote:
Mocsta you should read more carefully. Oats was against electing FT because FT wanted to kill him.
Upon rereading and looking back at things I actually think Oats is town. Anyone agree?
As soon as FT is back perhaps he can explain further why he thinks Oats actually looks worse, because I disagree on that. Noted on what you are saying. I re-read.. I did not think my critique of Oats was related to him being against FT election however? It was related to his conviction in saying prplhz was a mislynch. Perhaps you realised this so if you went out of your way to pointing it out prob means Im missing a piece of the puzzle?!?
Bugs pls disregard.. i misread.. which was teh piece of the puzzle.
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Well based on how oats reacted. Im going for town now.
Man. Still feel like an idiot.
Gonna come back after work. Maybe 6hrs
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Yam.
How come me and axle would be safer mason choices?
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On January 22 2013 22:38 AxleGreaser wrote:EBWOP Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 22:12 FiveTouch wrote:
Given I'm pretty much guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place.
On the basis of Lynching Scum D1 I take it? I know its uber ballsy as a scum Bus for Mayor to Lynch a team mate but..., but doesn't the 3 vote situation kind of level that? Are there any conditions under which you would no longer be "guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place." Just asking for your reasoning and any limits you have on your new status.
Axle, I know you inherently complicate matters. FYI, I thought about the bus situation for town cred as well.. but... I dunno I just get this feeling from FiveTouch.
He's what I was trying to be in the Newbie games but obviously knows what hes doing. I also know all the newbs wouldnt vote me, but kept saying I was this scum mastermind when I was just trying to be pro-town. (bit like yourself in this game to FT).
so im willing to concede if he scum hats off to him I just got schooled majorly; and thus the conclusion: to me the best course of action is to go hes fuckning pro-town as and accept it and support him.
Theres better scum targets out there to use your time on.
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On January 22 2013 22:12 FiveTouch wrote:
I would like everybody to read Vivax's case on JieXian, made shortly before the deadline. Please tell me why you agree or disagree, and what conclusions you have.
I read the filter first. Cliff Notes- Really 1-dimensional, most of the dialogue is not contributing towards anything meaningful that I can see.
- Defenses at first I read them as not confident and a touch defensive. But after his comment on trying to not be rude and piss Vivax off.. I re-read the defenses, and I can see why that would lead to the defensive nature.
- Says he likes the case on jimi hendrix and will support FT due to it.. I find this null. The JieXian vote was the first to take FT to a majority, but the thread status quo was pretty obvious. FT was going to be at least sheriff. So was a safe vote to lay.
- Admits no strong scum read ~40hrs ago. The filter feedback indicates he still has no strong scum read, as the commentary on Toad is just that, commentary.
Thoughts on Vivax Case
Overall - JX has added nothing particular to the fray of note.
- Has not properly addressed points raised to him
- If you want to assume he speaks fluent English, may have scum-slipped by mixing past/current-tense
- Has asked questions that have led no where, AND compounds this with admitting no scum read and has not come back with a read in over 40hrs.
If he was trying to be useless/inactive townie, he could have taken a much more subdued approach.
Whilst not all these points are indicative of scum play individually; together, they sum to what I think is scum play.
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Hmm I must say their mason chat log, went very different to how I thought I would do a chat if i was mason.
Its hard, they know each other obviously, which does remove a lot of formalities out of the equation.
As for guaranteed comments; its about consolidation, you need trust in the mayor, and using those comments is meant to be subtle confidence booster for you that the right decision was made. I wouldnt read too much into . Your not meant to judge the guy off one line in a post. Your meant to judge by his actions.
Hes dead right in what he said before. He was one of the (few) vets to broach the vet/non-vets; and I think has been transparent in his reads that he has shared. Couple that with the confidence boosters, and we have a leader who knows how to lead Axle.
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On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote:
Unless some of them were a vig shot.
That just blew my mind, didnt consider it.. Woulda still like to see Grush added to that list though 
His running into the thread and declaring himself Mason doesnt cut it for me - as if he didtn see Yamato post- doesnt cut it for me. (Not that I assume he lying.. just its complete WIFOM so I am discarding the post from my judgement)
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Axle.. seriously.. do you proof read before you press send, or at least preview?
I would consider lynching you right now, regardless of if your town. You make me not want to read your posts, which in fact could be an EXCELLENT strategy if you were scum.
I tend to drag my points as well, so now I try and create a base in notepad of what I want to say before I start typing in the thread. This might help you, dunno?
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Out of curiosity.. why do u guys (i.e. Toad/WBG) share your spreadsheets?
I am struggling to determine whether its genuine or WIFOM (i.e. setting traps)
I ask because this behaviour is very new to me.
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Toad/WBG
I had a pretty major day at work, so don't have formalized reads to push right now.
But to promote some discussion, what do you make of the (lack of) activity from Chezinu?
I know that is has been discussed as *very* unreadable, but we are now ~8hrs into Day2, and he is on a 2page filter. Is that normal for him? Especially considering he campaigned for mayor?
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Well Djdref did make a case on Annul but thats WIFOM.
I dunno I just didnt like the way Annul got pissed at Bugs. I know Bugs was antagonising, but I seen only one other town ragequit before, and he still tried to be helpful before quitting.
When i get home tonight will have a read of Brood and Annul and Gonzaw since those 3 seem to be the higher profile targets for Day2.
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EPT
