On January 22 2013 01:11 austinmcc wrote:
(4) Look at Gonzaw hard. If he's town, I think he'd be a solid mayor. He can get caught up in his own scheming just like I can, but he's shown an ability to be able to direct a game/faction if put into a position of power, and that's, again, a valuable quality to have in a mayor. I do not want scumGonzaw in that position though, at all. So he's a lot like Chez for me, in that I really don't want to risk mayor Gonzaw unless we're pretty certain of his alignment.
On January 22 2013 01:31 austinmcc wrote:Read over Gonzaw some more. Like Gonzaw. Gonzaw is a candidate I would place a vote on. Some short reasons: - This bit of a post - + Show Spoiler +
I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. - Picked up on stutters, has stayed somewhat on stutters.
- Looks dumb because he's agreeing with me, but look at this - + Show Spoiler +
I do have to say that I agree with austin that JieXian's 1st post wasn't as "scummy" as many people (you+sandro) pointed out, it's null at worst.
I think the 1st posts from many other people would be "far" more scummy (in relation, not objectively at least), like our guy Stutters' up there, and maybe other's like FiveTouch, or maybe even debears.
Why did you give Jiexian so much flak Vivax? Why did you instantly want to lynch him instead of other's (based on their 1st post as well)? - Is wary of Sandroba, and follows up on that wariness. Has asked Toad multiple times for updates on how Toad reads Sandroba's continued play.
- Is critical of others reads when he deals with them, but again, pushes things forward. Not "I think JX town" but "I think JX town, because under the reasoning you guys gave for him to be scum, these guys scummier." Same thing when he talks about oats here. Not "I think oats town/scum," but "I don't like this bit of the case on oats, but I do like these bits. Here is how I see things." Then an added bonus follow-up about stutters AND sandro that post.
- When chatting with mocsta for a moment, shows he's critically thinking about the difference between mayoral and normal games, but also at the end of that again follows up by asking about mocsta's views on stutters and clarity
I view Gonzaw as townie because of the above. I know that a lot of those points are all the same thing, in that Gonzaw is never just stopping at a response or an explanation, but continuing to make reads or push his reads. Even so, I like that, and the fact that he's constantly doing that makes it feel more genuine and townie to me.
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Sorry for the latest trolling (Fuba and Mocsta), I don't want to get killed.
Why I'm checking debears:
1) Never suspected by me or anyone much for that matter - 0 probability of getting framed.
2) Successfully flying under the radar so far. Impression of low activity.
3) He just jumped in to defend austin, that's when I took a better look at him and decided to check.
4) The timing of this post. Debears was the second last to vote Chezinu and the 7th to vote for him. Yet he had been "masoned" quite some time ago. He could have
Absolutely no point for debears to make such a lengthy post about why he thinks Chez is scum (except for looking like contributing and that he has a good reason to vote for him). He was going to get lynched anyway.
5) I find some of the times between his posts to be strange. He clearly posts in a calculated manner.
On January 27 2013 03:00 debears wrote:
##vote BKE
##vote Chezinu
+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2013 08:36 debears wrote:Chezinu was the one that masoned me. I have a few problems with the pms I exchanged with Chezinu. I am leaning scum on him from the pms we exchanged The reason why I am outing him as mason are four things: 1) His play is highly suspicious if he was town 2) If he was town, he obviously won't have time for the game, based on the pms and stuff stated in thread. 3) He is a center of the lynch debate for tomorrow behind BKE. I'm hoping this will help our decision 4) I'm probably gonna die tonight Ok here we go: 1) I didn't know I was masoned with him until 24 hours after I was masoned due to BC being afk. Yet, Chezinu never sent me a pm to talk. That's very strange. 2) Chezinu wrote out how he had a plan involving masons for the mayor. Here is the plan he gave me through pm. Show nested quote +
You were suppose to mason the mayor! Unless... you are choosing me to be the mayor ))).
OR are you mafia? Trying to obtain my secret plans to destroy you!
Well well... Guess someone has to take some risks..
To say or not to say? That is the question.
OK RISK TIME! Going to assume that you are townie. If you are, great things can happen. If you are not, well it will only spoil one of my plans, but it won't hurt it that much as you will soon know.
Here it is: I realized that the mayor would not be completely safe from mafia. The mafia will be able to substitute town bodyguards with mafia ones. How many bodyguards will there be? I don't know. But we do know that mafia can substitute 0-2 bodyguards. These bodyguards will be covering the elected officials. Are they assigned specifically to mayor or sheriff? I'm not sure. They could be divided or act as a cover for both. At minimum, I'm hoping we will at least have 4 bodyguards. I think it would be too imbalanced if mafia could substitute all of the bodyguards. That would mean, the mayor could die right after election.
So, where am I going with this?
The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will.
This is why it is essential that the masons contact the mayor/sheriff. The mayor can give the lists of bodyguards to the most trusted masons. If everything goes extremely well and masons happen to find the medic, well the medic can protect the bodyguards. If the mayor dies at night and not all the bodyguards are dead. The masons with the bodyguard lists shall announce the list to town. All bodyguards on that list will be mafia.
Now, for the hard part. The mafia have masons too. This is where the mayor has to be discerning. Not only does the mayor have to earn town trust, but the masons need to gain the trust of the mayor. I'm sure there will be more than one mason for town and at least one mason for mafia. If not, this game would be all too easy.
This mayor stuff will get messy and will get nasty. It has happened every single time in the past that I played the game with elected officials. If I get elected, this will be the first time I will be in the inside (never had a blue role in those games).
Now, the mayor will be safe with the masons if he tells them the bodyguard list (if they are town). It will just cause disaster if he releases the list to the mafia. So as mayor, I will not release the list until at least some of the bodyguards die. Don't want to kill innocent bodyguards just in case mafia doesn't sub. However, if it turns out there are only 2 bodyguards defending me -- I will have to give a list to a mason. Then complain that the game is imba.
As I mentioned in the thread, masons aren't the only solution to save the mayor. If the mayor himself is a veteran and the mafia sub bodyguards, well we just get free mafia lynches! Or perhaps a medic could protect the mayor (but this would only work if medic is quiet about it and mafia don't know. The medic shouldn't protect mayor until some bodyguards die).
As for who I will lynch, I'm thinking the Chezinu Rule. What do you think about that?
Note that Chezinu didn't follow through with this plan d1, ALTHOUGH HE IS A MASON. He could have saved me and Oats being outted as bodyguards in thread for the mafia. Why would he, as town, have this plan, yet not help orchestrate it when he is indeed a mason? 3) He masoned me, yet he didn't trust me to give me the names of the two masons. So, he must think I have a decent chance at being scum, yet he still masoned me? Show nested quote +Oh and why I masoned you? Well, I was busy with a midterm and missed the earlier part of Day 2. I saw that you were sad that you didn't join my circle yet. I knew at the time that the two masons who masoned me talked to 5touch already. I know there is another mason out there who will probably talk to 5touch tomorrow as well. Just know its all in 5touch's hands. If he is mafia, the game is already over. But I highly doubt this.
That's odd reasoning. I understand me and Chez are cool with each other, and I appreciate the gesture, but that's not a winning way to play mafia as town. Why would you want to talk to a scum unless you were fishing for his teammates (which Chez has not asked me anything, I have been the one asking questions) 4) He masoned me over the mayor. This is the reasoning he gave Show nested quote +Who will the mayor talk to the next day? That was the plan. Now it seems I'm getting lynched. Masons can't message the same person twice. That is a valid point. Still, why wouldn't he talk to toad instead? or someone who he actually considers town? Also, from that point on, Chezinu stated that he wouldn't be able to get on if his internet was out. If the internet worked, he would pm me back 3 1/2 hours after. No pms came after. 5) Chezinu didn't reveal he was mason to one of the masons whom he found townie + Show Spoiler +From: Chezinu [ 2754 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: oh wait.
Date: 1/26/13 09:46
For day 1, the mayor wasn't even elected yet. As for the masons getting bodyguard names, the two masons who talked to me were going to talk to 5touch, which they did. I was extremely confident one of them was townie . That mason can't talk to 5touch again for the rest of the game. If all masons talked to 5touch after getting elected, it would be a waste.
Do other masons know I'm mason? nope
I wasn't the only one who withheld information either. Can't explain unless I decide to reveal masons, which I haven't decided if I will yet.
I will release them probably tomorrow. I plan to mason 5touch tomorrow, which is in about 15 minutes - geez night goes by quick.
Original Message From debears:
Who did you mason day 1?
Why didnt you mason the mayor day 1?
Your plan involves town masons getting the bodyguard names, yet you didn't want to be that mason for the plan?
Also, do the other masons know you are mason?
Would you care if I released you are mason to the thread and the pms?
Show nested quote +
Here are the rest of the pms besides the last ones (of no importance) + Show Spoiler +
From: Chezinu [ 2742 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: yoyoyoyo
Date: 1/25/13 14:51
Cool! So BC delivered my message?
Original Message From debears:
i just got a pm from BC saying we're masoned since 24 hours ago lol.
Wassup!
From: Chezinu [ 2742 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: mommy dearest
Date: 1/25/13 14:58
Mommy dearest is threatening the brown brotherhood since day 1. He has been spreading lies about the brown. One can read the thread to find the truth. The thing mommy dearest is hoping no one would do. Which is true, cause I don't have that much time to do it.
What do you think about mommy dearest?
From: Chezinu [ 2742 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: Matters of the Brown Brotherhood
Date: 1/26/13 02:45
You were suppose to mason the mayor! Unless... you are choosing me to be the mayor ))).
OR are you mafia? Trying to obtain my secret plans to destroy you!
Well well... Guess someone has to take some risks..
To say or not to say? That is the question.
OK RISK TIME! Going to assume that you are townie. If you are, great things can happen. If you are not, well it will only spoil one of my plans, but it won't hurt it that much as you will soon know.
Here it is: I realized that the mayor would not be completely safe from mafia. The mafia will be able to substitute town bodyguards with mafia ones. How many bodyguards will there be? I don't know. But we do know that mafia can substitute 0-2 bodyguards. These bodyguards will be covering the elected officials. Are they assigned specifically to mayor or sheriff? I'm not sure. They could be divided or act as a cover for both. At minimum, I'm hoping we will at least have 4 bodyguards. I think it would be too imbalanced if mafia could substitute all of the bodyguards. That would mean, the mayor could die right after election.
So, where am I going with this?
The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will.
This is why it is essential that the masons contact the mayor/sheriff. The mayor can give the lists of bodyguards to the most trusted masons. If everything goes extremely well and masons happen to find the medic, well the medic can protect the bodyguards. If the mayor dies at night and not all the bodyguards are dead. The masons with the bodyguard lists shall announce the list to town. All bodyguards on that list will be mafia.
Now, for the hard part. The mafia have masons too. This is where the mayor has to be discerning. Not only does the mayor have to earn town trust, but the masons need to gain the trust of the mayor. I'm sure there will be more than one mason for town and at least one mason for mafia. If not, this game would be all too easy.
This mayor stuff will get messy and will get nasty. It has happened every single time in the past that I played the game with elected officials. If I get elected, this will be the first time I will be in the inside (never had a blue role in those games).
Now, the mayor will be safe with the masons if he tells them the bodyguard list (if they are town). It will just cause disaster if he releases the list to the mafia. So as mayor, I will not release the list until at least some of the bodyguards die. Don't want to kill innocent bodyguards just in case mafia doesn't sub. However, if it turns out there are only 2 bodyguards defending me -- I will have to give a list to a mason. Then complain that the game is imba.
As I mentioned in the thread, masons aren't the only solution to save the mayor. If the mayor himself is a veteran and the mafia sub bodyguards, well we just get free mafia lynches! Or perhaps a medic could protect the mayor (but this would only work if medic is quiet about it and mafia don't know. The medic shouldn't protect mayor until some bodyguards die).
As for who I will lynch, I'm thinking the Chezinu Rule. What do you think about that?
Original Message From ******:
I think prphl is fairly scummy. The fact that his two posts that I remember have been "this guy is scum, I vote for the guy who kills him" is not inspiring.
WBG is really good scum apparently, but I think I can read him if he's town and tries to look townie. I'm not sure if what he's doing with his suspicion of prphl is just scum fishing for a wagon on a lurkish player or not. I need more content from Bugsy to make a good read.
Reading some filters ATM. I like Austin a lot so far but I don't know what to make of Toad or his vote for Austin.
Show nested quote +
"
I like to keep my previous masons anonymous.
Oh and why I masoned you? Well, I was busy with a midterm and missed the earlier part of Day 2. I saw that you were sad that you didn't join my circle yet. I knew at the time that the two masons who masoned me talked to 5touch already. I know there is another mason out there who will probably talk to 5touch tomorrow as well. Just know its all in 5touch's hands. If he is mafia, the game is already over. But I highly doubt this.
Based on your list, BKE and grush look the best. grush on the otherhand I'm debating could be blue. I have this red blue colorblindness. All these masons this game isn't helping me. It Chezinu's biggest weakness and these last two games are really pointing this out. Of course, I thought oats was mafia. But they laugh and I felt sad. *Silly Songs with Larry starts playing*
Original Message From debears:
Brother,
I would also like to request a few more things from you:
Who did thou mason day 1?
What was this plan you stated day 1 with the masons?
If you are comfortable sharing with me, who were your the other 2 masons that talked to you day 1?
Who are your other scum listed?
I would think it's between BKE, Annul, You, Grush, and Mkfuba for the last 3
From: Chezinu [ 2742 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: ok I gtg!
Date: 1/26/13 02:47
I told myself to resist looking at this game, I have school work to do. I just saw those pretty PMs. I will try to come back before the deadline. The wireless network in my department building isn't working. If it happens to work, I will be able to check thread in about 3 and a half hours.
From: Chezinu [ 2742 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: oh wait.
Date: 1/26/13 02:48
Its night time! I already missed the previous deadline (thus my vote suck on oats).
5) His attitude on gonzaw
On January 22 2013 00:16 debears wrote:
Btw
5touch for mayor
Gonzaw for sheriff
Nuff said
On January 22 2013 02:47 debears wrote:
It's a null sign normally. But the fact that Vivax keeps pushing his candidacy is troubling to me right now, especially when he's pushing himself over Gonzaw AND Austin.
I would doubt both Gonzaw and Austin are scum
On January 22 2013 02:58 debears wrote:
Austin and Gonzaw are two players that are nk targets as town and have good reads from what I have heard. I'd say either of them is a good choice for sheriff, with Gonzaw preferred
On January 22 2013 06:27 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote:
Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin. Why exactly is austin so scummy in your opinion?
On January 23 2013 15:17 debears wrote:Ok. WBG I'll give you something to look at for Gonzaw. I htink the bottom stuff in red is the most pertaining to why I believe he is scum What is mafia trying to accomplish d1 with election 1) elect one of their own as mayor/sheriff 2) Trying to elect mayor who will get the first lynch wrong 3) Have someone on the correct mayor for town cred Gonzaw- - slight scum Up for election - didn't push it hard Didn't want to budge too fast on 5touch as mayor -----> didn't seem to care for trying to get mayor over 5No comment on prplhz----> Don't agree with prplhz lynch Heavy pressure on sandro early Wanted to lynch stutters and Oats and Clarity -spread out btw those 4. Big discrepancy in treatment btw prplhz and sandro treatment for being inactive d1Votes himself Really wanted to convince 5touch to lynch Oats over prplhz when realized he won't be mayor
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17590733
Thought stutters was scum and should be lynched, yet needs to explain himself to stutters so in depth? With a tone of treating Oats as town?
Look at post before "stutters should be lynched"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599229
Does it again. Then names Oats first in the scum team
Tries to convince Oats that Oats is scum. Not really trying to convince others and show scum motivation
Case on gonzaw after Bugs and others started suspecting him.
Debears @ January 24 2013 01:11.
So you thought Gonzaw was scum all day 1 and suddenly change your viewpoint and think he's town for no reason? And you suddenly get on everyone's case about voting gonzaw?
Debears attacks me cause he thinks I defended gonzaw (which wasn't even true) after suspecting him D1.
Scum seeing the connection before the flip.
On January 24 2013 01:42 debears wrote:
5Touch I am becoming gradually more suspicious of Oats for one very specific reason. I will let you know after the 24 hour mark in day2 what exactly I am noticing about him
Prepares to join the Oats wagon when people lose interest in gonzaw.
On January 24 2013 10:39 debears wrote:
Upon learning of my bodyguard status as town, I realized one thing immediately:
I only have this lynch left in the game
Why? I strongly believe 5touch is town, and toad I'd say is town for now. Mafia probably won't like having those extra three mayoral votes from 5touch regardless of if toad was scum.
Thus, I will very very likely be killed tonight.
So, debears, why the sudden spike in activity?
Because I have one more lynch I can help town with in this game
Now, look at Oatsmaster's posting. What has his psychological mindset been since learning of being bodyguard?
Nothing. No urgency. No realization that he will be nked soon. No great effort to help town out one last day
Why? I think it's because he's scum.
1) He's focusing on defending himself instead of giving reads
2) If he was town, he would realize that he would die in the night, and that giving reads is priority over defending yourself
3) Most of the town has agreed that lynching into the bodyguards isn't a great strategy since we will either 1. die or 2. be found out once the mayor dies. Thus, it would only take real effort in a focused manner to ward off his lynch
Dramatic post where he sets his target: Oats. He lost all interest in gonzaw after asking him a question before. But no expansion on that answer (if there ever was one)
On January 24 2013 07:05 debears wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:51 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 15:17 debears wrote:
Ok. WBG I'll give you something to look at for Gonzaw. I htink the bottom stuff in red is the most pertaining to why I believe he is scum
What is mafia trying to accomplish d1 with election
1) elect one of their own as mayor/sheriff
2) Trying to elect mayor who will get the first lynch wrong
3) Have someone on the correct mayor for town cred
Gonzaw- - slight scum
Up for election - didn't push it hard
Didn't want to budge too fast on 5touch as mayor -----> didn't seem to care for trying to get mayor over 5 You might want to reread my mayor campaign. I wanted D1 to run "smoothly as normal", and if people thought I was a good mayor candidate by mid-late D1 then it'd be great if they voted me. I was also absent/sleeping for much part of Five "rising to power". When I woke up one day Five already had like 5-6 votes and I had none, I obviously wasn't becoming mayor by that point and he was. Show nested quote +No comment on prplhz----> Don't agree with prplhz lynch
Heavy pressure on sandro early
Wanted to lynch stutters and Oats and Clarity -spread out btw those 4. Big discrepancy in treatment btw prplhz and sandro treatment for being inactive d1
Votes himself sandro is sandro. When town he does big plays as early as possible, he tries to "bully the setup", break the game, and have town win as early as possible. You can't obviously compare him with prplhz. Show nested quote +Really wanted to convince 5touch to lynch Oats over prplhz when realized he won't be mayor Yes I did. I don't think it matters anyways, since I believe Oats to be scum. Lol this actually reminds me of Aperture Mafia 2. I was on scum's tail all D1 (JingleHell), but made some "wishy washy" comments about the current lynched scum (iamp). I got flak for it the whole game and basically forced me to claim, when I was right all along lol. Funny how it's likely to be happening this game as well  Show nested quote +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17590733 Thought stutters was scum and should be lynched, yet needs to explain himself to stutters so in depth? With a tone of treating Oats as town? Look at post before "stutters should be lynched" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599229Does it again. Then names Oats first in the scum team Tries to convince Oats that Oats is scum. Not really trying to convince others and show scum motivation You don't seem to be familiar with my play. When I "try to convince my target he is scum", I'm obviously not doing that. What I'm doing is: -If somehow that guy is town, point out the scummy things he's doing, and how they come from a mafia perspective. If he's town, hopefully this will make him realize what he's doing and change his play accordingly, so he doesn't get misslynched -I want the guy to know why he's scummy, this way he has no way to hide. If he keeps acting like he is doing after I mention that, then it means he acknowledged what I said but didn't care about it. That is a strong indication of mafia for me (or at points, depending on his play, maybe a townie), depending on his reactions. -If the guy is scum, then it also kills 2 birds with 1 stone by showing other people why he's scum. Gonz, could you post a few examples from your town games where you have this sort of posting style toward your hard scumreads? I don't want to look through filters since I don't know exactly what games you had a hard scumread. And you should be able to come up with one or two examples since it should be part of your standard town play
So we know gonz and Oats should be his suspects at the time, but the next post proves us wrong.
On January 24 2013 15:31 debears wrote:
I am not comfortable with lynching Gonzaw currently over annul and BKE
Upon closer inspection of his town games listed, and a couple of his scum games, I found that his posting style of convincing someone of their scumminess is a trait of his town games.
I only looked a little in the scum ones and I didn't see it
I didn't see anything in terms of him defending himself against a scumread's accusations in either
That would leave me wanting to lynch Gonzaw based on
1) His running for mayor (scum having to have someone run)
2) Him trying to convince 5touch to lynch oats over prplhz
I'm still waiting on an answer over whether the mayor/sheriff can be killed in the same night as a bodyguard.
If so, then I agree with not lynching Oats.
If the mayor/sheriff can't be killed on the same night, we should take that into consideration of lynching oats
Ta-daa. He spits out a sudden townread, still listing reasons for why he could be scum, without listing ONE reason for suspecting annul or BKE before, whom he prefers over gonzaw (why???)
Then my claim came, and the game was over for gonzy.
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EPT
