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On January 17 2013 03:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
well, let's talk about it.
You seem to be "not convinced" that slOosh is scum. Then, we are looking at TWO additional scum, not just one. So, who? I don't want to lynch Hopeless just to have him flip town and then have to start all over again like we had to do today. Chances are strong that if we don't talk now about these types of possibilities we won't be able to later.
ignoring Zentor's activity, what makes him town? What's your opinion on grush? Lazer?
If I had to pick two right now, I'd say SloOsh/Grush
I have reasons to think everyone else is town.
Iamperfection is being active and open, which is indicative of his town-play (especially this early after replacing in). Whether or not he sustains this activity will be how I ultimately read him, but so far he's being townie.
Jay is also more active than I'd expect from his scum-play.
MrZ is also being active and open. The things that people find "scummy" about him (early town reads, lack of pushing reads) are completely normal for his town-play. It's the attention-grabbing in the early-game that really makes me think he's town. The early town-reads, him drawing attention to himself through his activity... these aren't things that scum MrZ does.
Xata is gunning for you WBG, and I find that horrendously brave for a scum to do. Especially for him.
Lazer was pushed by Hopeless for most of the game. Outside his "slip" or whatever, I can't find any reasons that he's scum.
Thrawn's early game voting and attention grabbing is indicative of his town play.
And you WBG have been one of the more active and concerned players in recent days.
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On January 17 2013 03:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 03:26 Hapahauli wrote:On January 17 2013 03:17 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 17 2013 03:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Apparently no one does any thinking either, if we're going to lynch someone over Hopeless today. I'd agree with that too, given that both thrawn and zentor simply swapped their votes over to slOosh as soon as I did. I think both slOosh and Hopeless are good lynches for today. If they are both scum, and it's certainly possible, who does that leave us with for a third scum? Grush? If one of them is not? My first concern is seeing Hopeless hang, and then we'll find the rest. SloOsh could be scum based on how he handled himself last night (flinging shit at you, willingness to compromise on Hopeless), but I'm not convinced. As for a 3rd, I have no idea. I was originally thinking Lazer, but given how hard Hopeless decided to push him, I don't think that's realistic. Aren't you in the slightest suspicious of either WBG or Jay? Seriously, why?
See the above post + my night-post for more info.
What do you think about my case on Hopeless?
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On January 17 2013 04:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
By default that means you think the scumteam is hopeless, slOosh, and grush.
Correct?
Correct. I'm going to lynch Hopeless first, as I'm most confident about him. I have to account for the fact that I could be wrong about one of my town-reads.
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On January 17 2013 04:33 slOosh wrote:
Three scum? Where does it say that?
It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++
Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum?
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On January 17 2013 04:40 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote:On January 17 2013 04:33 slOosh wrote:
Three scum? Where does it say that? It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++ Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum? Yea my first game ever, hosted by Qatol and dreamflower.
Seriously? Geez that's imbalanced as fuck.
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On January 17 2013 05:17 Lazermonkey wrote:Bugs, how do you go from: Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, let's go for it. I actually like Hopeless's thoughts in his last post and Lazer looks much better because he pointed out something that I noticed too; in Hopeless's last game he played somewhat similar to this.
slOosh, on the other hand, is still scum.
##unvote
##vote slOosh to Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright.
I'm feeling lazy so let's just kill Hopeless. I don't think anything is going to happen in the near future to make either read stronger and so it's just best to consolidate our votes rather than continue to inflate the thread with further pointless back-and-forths.
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der In just a couple of hours? And Hopeless didn't even say a thing during this time. Just you talking with Hapa and him calling the thread bad for not wanting to lynch Hopeless. @Hapa: did you read hopeless filter from LVIII?
Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively.
In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022
Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town.
Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself.
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And for the love of god read the above before you consider voting anyone but Hopeless.
Nappy time. BB in a few hours.
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On January 17 2013 09:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
...
Question the second:
Why did I vote for Ruuch?
This is a really really good question. Why did you vote for Ruuch? Let's examine things.
On January 15 2013 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
Better than Prom
##Unvote: Lazermonkey
##Vote: Ruuch
You voted him because you thought he had more chance to flip scum than Prom. This would imply that you had a really really strong town-read on Prom. Your strong town-read?
On January 15 2013 02:47 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:20 slOosh wrote:
Hopeless can you give me your thoughts on Prom's play this game? He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote:
'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it.
In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom.
You were leaning town on Prom. You had a weak town-read on Prom. Yet despite "leaning town" on Prome, you adopted a stance of being willing to lynch pretty much anyone but him. You knew he was going to flip town, and you distanced yourself from his lynch.
But once again, if you had a town-read on Prome, what's the purpose of all the bolded stuff? You had a town-read on Prome, yet half of your post flung shit at him. None of that makes any sense.
@Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available?
You still have not explained how you arrived at your town-read on Iamp. In fact I can't for the life of me figure out how you garnered a strong-enough townread on, given that Iamp had made 11 posts at the time you gave him a town-read. And it's not a weak town-read either - it's apparently strong enough to make you "assume" he's town in your analysis.
That's complete bullshit.
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Aughh... got the flu and I feel like hell. Fun fun fun.
I need to rest some, but I should be around from now until the deadline.
Regarding Hopeless
We still should be lynching him. What about his responses have convinced you that he's town? He's lurking, he's dropping reads with barely any justification, and he made a self-preservation vote 24-hours before the lynch deadline. Hell I can't see where he pulled his read on SloOsh from:
I'm more inclined to believe bugs and Ruuch(Lamp) are town, so right now my choices to vote are Lazer and SlOosh, and possibly Hapa for no other reason than his vote was in scummy places.
SlOosh, you asked me why I wasn't pushing my own read, but its not like I could have stopped you from voting Prom. The whole point of that exercise was to question my motives, not to see if I had anything new to contribute. Hapa is next to impossible to reason with, and when was the last time you saw grush respond to any form of logic? Attempting to get Lazer lynched when Prom was afk and super didn't give two shits (hell, he swapped onto a townread) wasn't remotely possible, and if you honestly believe I had a chance in hell, please tell me what you are smoking.
Bugs' vote was on Zentor, until Ruuch showed his face. Bugs didn't do much to stop the Prom lynch, other than trying to get Ruuch at the last minute. This move puts him under suspicion, same as Hapa, but based on the night conversations, I believe only 1 of SlOosh and wbg are scum. I'm not discounting the possibility that both sloosh and wbg are scum, but it seems far less likely, and I think sloosh is more suspicious (/sheep bugs).
Sloosh, LM, Hapa
That's everything in his filter that could be considered suspicion on slOosh. And none of it is suspicion. It's just name-dropping and/or defending himself from sloOsh's line of questioning.
Regarding SloOsh
We should not be lynching him over a guy that has displayed numerous inconsistencies that are incompatible with a town-mentality (Hopeless).
I have my doubts about SloOsh. He's interested in pushing Hopeless, and he's more active in his defense than you all give him credit for.
I think we need to give him another day to prove himself one way or the other. In the mean-time, we need to lynch the scummiest guy in the thread - Hopeless.
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@ iamp
On January 17 2013 12:35 iamperfection wrote:hrm it is interesting that hapa did this however Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 09:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Welp. Sorry prome =/
Ruuch, you need to tell us why that was not a scumclaim. When i was reading the thread i thought it was pretty clear that Ruuch was a super noob town and now hapa is going herp derp scum claim. Usally when hapa is town despite the tunnely aspect of his play he is open to other possibilities and very self aware of confirmation bias he may have. i'll have to sleep on this but for now ## unvote
At the time, my vote on Ruuch was not due to his last-minute de-lurk, but also due to the manner in which he entered into the thread. He made a post, the entirety of which criticized/lectured "the town" rather than making any reads, which I thought I made pretty clear:
On January 15 2013 08:54 Hapahauli wrote:
So Ruuch. Why are you voting Promethelax.
On January 15 2013 08:55 Hapahauli wrote:
Because you just devoted your entire post to criticizing the town and none of it towards making any reads or observations.
My vote was much more emotionally-driven than it should have been, but that's what I was thinking then.
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On January 18 2013 03:17 slOosh wrote:
Ehh ... disappointing.
You guys let Mr Zentor and grush lurk away, you guys vote me on a comparison basis of WBG, many of you totally ignoring / avoiding commenting on hopeless (I can't tell the difference) and none of you seem to be concerned that hopeless is lurking now that the lynch is pretty much set.
I'll read dump later tonight when I have time, and with my flip you maybe you guys will finally get it together, cause this has got to be the most frustrating town I have ever played with.
Can you find some time to do this earlier? We're only 4 hours from the deadline, and resigning yourself to getting lynched is far from optimal if you're town.
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@ Lazer
On January 18 2013 03:17 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 03:16 thrawn2112 wrote:scumslip On January 18 2013 03:06 Lazermonkey wrote: I am reading the game intensly and the reason I haven't been posting too to much the last two days is because I felt that I wasn't in danger of getting lynched so I've been spending more time reading filters rather than spending time to defend myself against retarded stuff like scum slips.
He feels that he doesn't need to post that much. Why? Because he felt that he wasn't in danger of getting lynched. and as mentioned. if you had been studying the thread for 48 hours you would be able to talk about your reads on the spot, when asked to do so. My main scum read died N1 you know. I had to reevaluate my reads alot after that.
Can you explain how you changed your reads though? Telling us that you "re-evaluated" doesn't do much, especially when you voted WBG on Day 1, and are so willing to follow him right now.
I can't figure out where your town-read on WBG came from. You went from this on Day 1/Night 1:
On January 15 2013 08:42 Lazermonkey wrote:
##Vote: WBG
It's never too late...
On January 15 2013 23:41 Lazermonkey wrote:WBG, do you mind explaining this? Show nested quote +
Hapa, thrawn, and slOosh I basically have auto-town reads on. I hope they don't turn into the sciberbias of this game. (I had an auto-town read on Prom too)
What is an auto-town read? And what is sciberbias? He is a player afaik, so I guess it has to do with something he done in a game in the past.
To your town-read today:
On January 18 2013 02:45 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 02:39 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 18 2013 02:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I'm killing SlOosh tonight. WBGs post about the timestamps + how he avoided to vote is convincing enough for me to vote him.
##Vote: SlOosh who do you think is scum, and who do you want to lynch? pretend the lynch is completely your choice and give me 2 candidates based on your own thoughts. SlOosh. I'm not too sure of the next two players as my main scum target died tonight... However, I'm quite sure the two remaining scum are among Hapa grush Xata Jay Iamp MrZentor.
On January 18 2013 02:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I'm killing SlOosh tonight. WBGs post about the timestamps + how he avoided to vote is convincing enough for me to vote him.
##Vote: SlOosh
...and you never give any explanation for it in your filter.
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The SloOsh flip wasn't bad, but we still have a long ways to go. GL surviving the night, and hopefully I'll be joining you guys tomorrow.
Hopeless1der is still scum. For all the reasons I've mentioned for the last 48 hours.
Atleast 2 (possibly 3) scum should have been on the SloOsh wagon.
SloOsh is one of the better town players on TL, and not wasting an NK on him was likely one of scum's priorities.
On January 18 2013 08:55 Dandel Ion wrote:
Votecount:
Hopeless1der (5): Hapahauli, slOosh, Xatalos, iamperfection, grush57
slOosh (6): jaybrundage, MrZentor, Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, thrawn, Hopeless1der
Lazermonkey (0): Hopeless1der
hopeless set to be lynched!
WBG/Thrawn - They seem the most concerned with scumhunting in the thread, and I think they're town.
Jaybrundage - Nothing about his vote seemed malicious. He dropped a vote, pushed the lynch, and seemed very reasonable throughout. Leaning town on him.
Hopeless - Is scum.
MrZentor - I had him town earlier, but his activity has dropped off a cliff.
On January 17 2013 01:41 MrZentor wrote:For the record, I would also love to lynch Sloosh. 
On January 17 2013 01:44 MrZentor wrote:
##unvote
##vote slOosh
Gogogogogo
This is all he mentions on the subject of voting SloOsh. However, I don't know why MrZ was so willing to vote SloOsh when he was so suspicious of WBG towards the end of Day 1:
On January 15 2013 08:49 MrZentor wrote:
Idk, WBG would certainly be a fun lynch.
On January 14 2013 11:51 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 11:43 jaybrundage wrote:On January 14 2013 11:41 MrZentor wrote:Scum don't laugh at jokes. SS is confirmed town. + Show Spoiler + You think its that simple eh >.< Z who would you go for lynch today. You have been saying your town reads. But who's your best bet on as scum. Idk, WBG, Hopeless, Xata, and Hapa are all kind of shady. I'll try to narrow it down to one or two suspects tomorrow.
In fact, one of MrZ's only "case" contributions this game happens to be on WBG:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=37#734
Given that WBG was the main driving force behind the SloOsh wagon, I'd expect more skepticism. The amount of trust he had for the SloOsh wagon reads a lot like he's pushing the wagon out of convenience. I think he's one who should be focused on tomorrow as well. Try to gauge his activity and responsiveness, because that's what tips his alignment more than anything else.
Lazermonkey - I still don't know what to think of him. I have a hard time believing that a Hopeless (as scum) would bus his scumbuddy so hard. That being said, he has a 7 page filter and very little substance in there. He spends most of the time defending himself and making one-liners about one thing or another. His only major scumhunting contribution yesterday was the following:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1198
And it's just a list without any substantial analysis, or evidence that he's closely reading the thread. I hope I have one more day to give him a closer look.
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GG thrawn, way to fight the good fight.
##Vote Hopeless1der
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Oh. Well that helps things then =D
So where will you be placing your vote today?
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Stop being stupid Xata. It makes no sense for him to claim mason as scum here.
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On January 19 2013 09:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm confirmation biased, and have yet to properly make a case, so feel free to call this OMGUS until I substantiate:
##Vote: Hapahauli
Still willing to lynch Lazer.
Translation:
"Since I haven't bothered to do so yet, I need to look through Hapa's filter and fling as much shit at him as I can."
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Mornin' all
If anyone wants me to reply to the Hopeless case, I'll do so. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth my time. It's almost entirely based on pre-flip associations with Lazermonkey. Given that, it's nonsensical for him to want to lynch me before seeing Lazermonkey flip.
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On January 20 2013 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's not forget he has no reads outside of Hapa.
I still want to hear from Hapa, but Hopeless in the meantime is not making himself look any better.
Hey d00d, hear from me on what?
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On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote:
Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet.
The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer?
"Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality.
Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note:
My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191
My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1.
Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting.
As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here.
But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread.
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EPT
