EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXV - Page 16
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
| ||
|
Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Questions to All Persons Intent: Discussion is quite slow at the moment. I have addressed questions to each participant to promote further conversation, whether directly to myself, or to others. Please take the time and respond to these accordingly. If you have qualms replying to my content, please notify myself and the rest of town, why you deem this unnecessary.
| ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I do not want to lynch either glurio or Acid at this point because it does not generate discussion and without discussion, town has a really fucking difficult time finding scum. | ||
|
Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 13 2013 23:30 Mandalor wrote: I'm going to write down my thoughts on a couple of people. I don't have any strong reads on anybody so far, but this may be useful for some of you. + Show Spoiler + Mocsta After observing the last two newbie games, I am a little afraid of a scum mocsta. In fact, in Newbie XXXIII I had a strong scum read on him - mostly because, while he contributed a lot, his posts consisted of mostly questions to others. He wrote down very few own reads. His meta so far looks like his XXXIV game, which is a little odd because he said he'd switch things up a little before the game started. He might try to copy his last meta to look town. So far, however, I get a town vibe from his play, but I'll be looking at him more closely. Oats Very agressive stance towards Mocsta. While I disagree with his read on Mocsta, he looks like a very agressive townie. I don't think being the first to attack one of the most vocal players is typical scum behavior. laguerta One of my strongest scum reads so far, which doesn't say a lot. In my first post after the game started, I said I'd look for quiet players with very few quality posts for Day 1. And laguerta is a prime example for this. Just take a look at his filter. Sn0_Man Weird behavior so far. He was _very_ active before the game started and then vanished from the thread. Lots of questions about the SK and then he disappeared. He has some posts after the game started (and I know that this is my second post btw), but other than this post + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast. Plus, the use of the word "us" is a pretty ingratiating town claim to make in your first post (if town thinks of mocsta as "us" then he is pretty happy). Either way, that post felt like the opening gambit of a scum whose plan was to utterly control town. Obviously there are other ways to read it, I'm not voting mocsta here (yet). Additionally, the way the 2nd question is asked almost makes me think he is asking "Tell me your scumhunting plans so that I know what you are thinking about and what I can avoid". My 2c not a whole lot of contribution. I would like to ask you to post more. I like the quoted post, but I'd love to hear more of you. So far: null read. Trotske My other top candidate for voting so far. No read from him at all other than his opinion on sn0_man's and Oatsmaster's behavior (which Mocsta asked him to provide). Please give us something to work with, otherwise I'll vote for either you or laguerta. ------- I know this is a newbie game and quiet is not automatically = scum, but you're making it easy for scum to lay low if you don't contribute. laguerta and Trotske, please take your time and give us some reads. Who are your top scum reads so far, and why? Mandalor, thank you for taking the time to go through the filters and contribute your thoughts. This is a good choice from a Day1 lurker. I have some concerns with your post, (1) Early-Game: It is not a good play to discuss town reads. If you want some reasoning, here it is. [Toadestern] See the thing is, ... it is INCREDIBLY hard to tell a townie who's posting a townread apart from a mafia who's posting a townread while both may look like something useful (it's not). A townread is best kept to yourself, especially early on. 1. There's no reason to tell people what the key to making you think someone is town is. 2. There's no reason to tell mafia (if you're town) who you consider to be a likely townie is. 3. There's no reason to tell anybody why you think someone is town at all, unless said person is about to be lynched. On top of that, it is incredibly easy for mafia to look like they're doing something by posting townreads. They know they're right on something, they don't have to make up bullshit, which they have to when they're doing scumreads unless they're bussing. They can get in the thread make 4 townreads about someone, mix in 2 mafiabuddies and tell people they're mafia as well and there's almost no way to distinguish that from a townie. I mean there is, but it's just WAY hader than by looking at peoples mafiareads because again, mafia have to make up some bullshit when doing those, they got confirmation bias and already know they're wrong and all that is making it hard for mafias to talk about mafia-reads. Talking about townreads isn't for them, not at all. This is where the problem lies. You see, you have said, you think myself and Oats are town (very easy to do if you had scum knowledge). Then you call out two lurkers as your top scum read. (very easy to do whether you have scum knowledge or not). The problem I have is.. you identify me and Oats as town, but then.. don't give your opinion on what played on. The comments you make, are pretty much out there to be copy/pasted from a filter read. Good scum hunting requires original thought. So far what you have shared is contributions anyone can DO with 20minutes; yet when it comes to the real meat and potatoes, the real content is lacking. You follow by commenting on my "confirmation bias" with Oats, but do not indicate your opinion on Oats. You don't even give detailed reason why you are saying it is confirmation bias. In fact, i would content your reasoning is drowned in confirmation bias. Do you truly think the heuristic On January 13 2013 23:44 Mandalor wrote: is taking a rational approach and considering all options.. if you are town (so far you are null to me) you need to be more open minded to possibilities in my opinion!Scum likes to make buddies with the most vocal players, not attack them right away. Lastly, you finish off by saying its "OMGUS" when we both clearly did not say we were voting each other as OMGUS... I know the above is a wall of text, but I would appreciate if you could take the time to address these concerns on top of the questions I outlined to you on the previous page. | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
On January 13 2013 23:58 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I think I just did that. Apart from the extreme lurkers (acid and glurio), I feel like laguerta and Trotske are flying under the radar right now and asked them to contribute. (2) I know it takes some time to make such a post you just did and view this as an outdated question. (3) Typical newbie scum behavior is: * Flat out lurking (not necessarily a behavior reserved for the scum players only tho) * Not posting a lot, giving barely any reads on other players * Buddying up with the strong town players I never said this is the ONLY possible way to play as scum, but it seems to be the most common way to do it after I observed the last two games. I advocate going for the easy targets first. We might have a really good scum player in the game, but most of them will show characteristic scum traits and I feel like that's what we should focus on for now. Afterall, we're working with a very limited amount of information so far. | ||
|
Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 14 2013 00:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Well the reason why I am voting bringaniga is because he is obviously active and reading the thread but he isnt contributing in a way that benefits town at all. I do not want to lynch either glurio or Acid at this point because it does not generate discussion and without discussion, town has a really fucking difficult time finding scum. +1 for this post Oats. Thank you for respectfully answering my question. I will reciprocate with my thoughts on our previous matter. Since your unvote on me, you have tried to scum hunt by ACTIVELY questioning other candidates. With the current climate, I think this is town motivated. I really like your response here and reasoning for not following up on Acid/Glurio. I agree, for Day1 it feels wasted with the limited time we have left. I also think this is town motivated. So.... ##Unvote: Oatsmaster If we were to dig this a bit deeper.. what is your take if Day 2, the situation with Glurio/Acid does not change.. Do you think the plan of attack is to eat the active guys up, or start lighting MORE fires under the lurkers? (Im in favour of lighting more fires.. and will still try to do it Day 1 regardless) | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
On January 14 2013 00:14 Mocsta wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2013 23:30 Mandalor wrote: I'm going to write down my thoughts on a couple of people. I don't have any strong reads on anybody so far, but this may be useful for some of you. + Show Spoiler + Mocsta After observing the last two newbie games, I am a little afraid of a scum mocsta. In fact, in Newbie XXXIII I had a strong scum read on him - mostly because, while he contributed a lot, his posts consisted of mostly questions to others. He wrote down very few own reads. His meta so far looks like his XXXIV game, which is a little odd because he said he'd switch things up a little before the game started. He might try to copy his last meta to look town. So far, however, I get a town vibe from his play, but I'll be looking at him more closely. Oats Very agressive stance towards Mocsta. While I disagree with his read on Mocsta, he looks like a very agressive townie. I don't think being the first to attack one of the most vocal players is typical scum behavior. laguerta One of my strongest scum reads so far, which doesn't say a lot. In my first post after the game started, I said I'd look for quiet players with very few quality posts for Day 1. And laguerta is a prime example for this. Just take a look at his filter. Sn0_Man Weird behavior so far. He was _very_ active before the game started and then vanished from the thread. Lots of questions about the SK and then he disappeared. He has some posts after the game started (and I know that this is my second post btw), but other than this post + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast. Plus, the use of the word "us" is a pretty ingratiating town claim to make in your first post (if town thinks of mocsta as "us" then he is pretty happy). Either way, that post felt like the opening gambit of a scum whose plan was to utterly control town. Obviously there are other ways to read it, I'm not voting mocsta here (yet). Additionally, the way the 2nd question is asked almost makes me think he is asking "Tell me your scumhunting plans so that I know what you are thinking about and what I can avoid". My 2c not a whole lot of contribution. I would like to ask you to post more. I like the quoted post, but I'd love to hear more of you. So far: null read. Trotske My other top candidate for voting so far. No read from him at all other than his opinion on sn0_man's and Oatsmaster's behavior (which Mocsta asked him to provide). Please give us something to work with, otherwise I'll vote for either you or laguerta. ------- I know this is a newbie game and quiet is not automatically = scum, but you're making it easy for scum to lay low if you don't contribute. laguerta and Trotske, please take your time and give us some reads. Who are your top scum reads so far, and why? Mandalor, thank you for taking the time to go through the filters and contribute your thoughts. This is a good choice from a Day1 lurker. I have some concerns with your post, (1) Early-Game: It is not a good play to discuss town reads. If you want some reasoning, here it is. [Toadestern] See the thing is, ... it is INCREDIBLY hard to tell a townie who's posting a townread apart from a mafia who's posting a townread while both may look like something useful (it's not). A townread is best kept to yourself, especially early on. 1. There's no reason to tell people what the key to making you think someone is town is. 2. There's no reason to tell mafia (if you're town) who you consider to be a likely townie is. 3. There's no reason to tell anybody why you think someone is town at all, unless said person is about to be lynched. On top of that, it is incredibly easy for mafia to look like they're doing something by posting townreads. They know they're right on something, they don't have to make up bullshit, which they have to when they're doing scumreads unless they're bussing. They can get in the thread make 4 townreads about someone, mix in 2 mafiabuddies and tell people they're mafia as well and there's almost no way to distinguish that from a townie. I mean there is, but it's just WAY hader than by looking at peoples mafiareads because again, mafia have to make up some bullshit when doing those, they got confirmation bias and already know they're wrong and all that is making it hard for mafias to talk about mafia-reads. Talking about townreads isn't for them, not at all. This is where the problem lies. You see, you have said, you think myself and Oats are town (very easy to do if you had scum knowledge). Then you call out two lurkers as your top scum read. (very easy to do whether you have scum knowledge or not). The problem I have is.. you identify me and Oats as town, but then.. don't give your opinion on what played on. The comments you make, are pretty much out there to be copy/pasted from a filter read. Good scum hunting requires original thought. So far what you have shared is contributions anyone can DO with 20minutes; yet when it comes to the real meat and potatoes, the real content is lacking. You follow by commenting on my "confirmation bias" with Oats, but do not indicate your opinion on Oats. You don't even give detailed reason why you are saying it is confirmation bias. In fact, i would content your reasoning is drowned in confirmation bias. Do you truly think the heuristic On January 13 2013 23:44 Mandalor wrote: is taking a rational approach and considering all options.. if you are town (so far you are null to me) you need to be more open minded to possibilities in my opinion!Scum likes to make buddies with the most vocal players, not attack them right away. Lastly, you finish off by saying its "OMGUS" when we both clearly did not say we were voting each other as OMGUS... I know the above is a wall of text, but I would appreciate if you could take the time to address these concerns on top of the questions I outlined to you on the previous page. I shouldn't publish town reads early in the game? Didn't know that. Noted. I didn't really organise that post. I just opened all the filters and noted my thoughts on what I read on the fly. I don't see myself as some genius playing this game. Of course anybody can do what I just did. In fact, I ask everyone to do that. It will ultimately help town. The reason I am simplifying reads is that this is Day 1. I have never seen a brilliant, active scum player providing quality posts getting caught Day 1 (this is my 7th mafia game, however the first 6 were several years ago which is the reason I am allowed to play this one to get back on track). What I've seen time and time again, tho, is two outspoken town players going at each other Day 1 with one of them getting mislynched and lurking scum players having a party. I'd prefer to not see this happen again. Of course you never said it was an OMGUS. Nobody says that, because it's stupid play. You both attacked each other, resulting in a vote, because you were attacked. That's textbook OMGUS if I understand the mafia wiki entry correctly. I don't quite understand this part of your post: The problem I have is.. you identify me and Oats as town, but then.. don't give your opinion on what played on. The comments you make, are pretty much out there to be copy/pasted from a filter read. Good scum hunting requires original thought. Please elaborate. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
If your vote is not properly formatted it will not be counted. Everyone is required to vote. bringaniga (2) - shz, Oatsmaster Acid~ (1) - OmniEulogy Mocsta (0) - Oatsmaster (0) - Not Voting (10) - lots of people Currently, bringaniga is set to be lynched! If you see that your vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 12 hours 30 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 04:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
So Mandalor are all the active people that you didnt mention null? Who would you vote if you have to and why? | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
I'm having trouble reading Omni, zarepath, zebezt and shz. I will go over their filters later this day tho. I would like to reserve my vote for now, giving Trotske and laguerta some time. They're still my favorites so far. | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
| ||
|
Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
See you in 8 hrs, hopefully we have a few more pages to read through by then!! Please keep up the discussions. Now that I have unvoted, I am uncertain of where my vote should go. I will have a re-think when I wake up (4hrs before lynch).But below details my current thoughts before sleep (and its been a REALLY long day for me) The majority of us have been fixated on looking for tells in active players (yes, this includes myself).. why.. because he have nothing to read in the lurkers posts so we just cannibalize each other. History tells us, lynching active people Day 1 usually is town. I haven't managed to lynch scum Day1 yet, but, i haven't given up this game. I think our best way to succeed is go for the non-contributors. seriously.. 36hrs and minimal posts is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Some of us are active in our own ways; but posting at least shows interest; which is more of a read than I can give for a hardcore lurker. I think for the time being, my vote will go on ##Vote: Sn0_Man Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615&user=287497 Why?
| ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Why do you want to lynch 'easy targets'? | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
They show standard scum traits: * low quality posts, no reads * lurky, but not to a point where they're completely inactive | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
| ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
| ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
| ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
My definition of easy is the path of least resistance, where your 'target' wont put up a fight and you can vote without needing to analyse their play. In no way does it seem like they are more likely to flip scum because they are 'easy' but because they have shown lurker traits which also refer to town if you didnt notice what you said. Everybody, except Sylencia, last game showed those traits: low quality posts, no reads * lurky, but not to a point where they're completely inactive | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
I am in favor of lynching the players that seem to be very clearly scum. I am giving both Trotske and laguerta enough time to change my view on them if they contribute. If I, like you seem to be thinking, would go for targets that are less likely to defend themselves, I would be going after Acid~ or glurio. Both Trotske and laguerta aren't heavy lurkers. They are very likely to respond sometime today and I'm looking forward to that. | ||
|
Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
Everybody, except Sylencia, last game showed those traits: low quality posts, no reads * lurky, but not to a point where they're completely inactive I meant everybody as in every scum player. The lurky town players contributed some, albeit not a lot. | ||
| ||
