EPTWe are the Acro/Dandelion Hydra!!!
[T] MTG Mini Mafia II
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We are the Acro/Dandelion Hydra!!! | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:34 RockHydra wrote: Hopeless1der + zebezt You are quite obviously the inferior hydra. | ||
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On January 28 2013 03:56 RockHydra wrote: It shall never be as awesome as this account! Yet even that plays second fiddle to the awesomeness that is I. . . . . My other heads all agree with the above statement. | ||
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Q: Someone claimed that, in the upcoming core set, Rock Hydra is to be recognized as the most awesome hydra in its flavour text. Is this WotC's official opinion? A: Bitch, please. Everybody knows that Clockwork Hydra has way more style. I am unsure why he was channeling Samuel L. Jackson when saying that, but there you go: straight from the horse's mouth. | ||
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I WILL attack people who I feel break these policies (looking at you for the second one, Prom). Magic policies:
~both Acro and Dandel | ||
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And so that you can't excuse contradictions with "oh that was my other head l0l0l" ~Dandel | ||
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And, honestly, yes, signing IS important. Firstly there are umpteen hydras here and I don't even know which hydra belongs to whom. Secondly, your train of thought should be clear. It's unfair not just to me, but ot others in this game who may not be as familiar with most of you. Also, assuming the first game did things right is a gross misrepresentation of that game. I read it at the time, and it was a concatenation of mistakes. Partially because people got setup speculation wrong in the beginning, and partially due to just plain bad play. Scum won that game... and they won for a reason. Lets not repeat it. | ||
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On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now? Bin and AS were. What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 08:56 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Hey I'm no egghead! > : ( Anyways I said what is needed to be said. As a first step: I don't like Clockwork's "verbose" entrance into the game. He seems to be hung onto the "hydras should sign their posts" thing too much. In fact he seems too hung on the hydra aspect of the game, rather than the game itself. Not alignment-indicative (at least not that much), but slightly weird. Convince me you are town CW, come on. Lol. Gonzaw calling someone verbose. Anyway, I said what needs to be said. You DO need to sign your posts. Scumhunting becomes utter hell otherwise. It will be bad enough in any case with so many hydras (one filter with two different opinions and posting styles is hard enough to figure out even if you DO sign it). You seem to be active and want to scumhunt, yet are trying to make your work harder. Why is that? Why do you NOT want to go to the little bit of trouble to sign your posts, in order to save yourself immense amounts of effort when reading someone else's filter? /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now? What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) /GW On January 29 2013 08:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Aperture, will you troll the whole game like this? If I want I could start fucking you up right now, I even have a card that can do it. BinOnFire, you there? Wanna post about something? rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel | ||
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I would rephrase Gonzaw's objection as: anybody playing creatures that serve no purpose other than blocking. @RockHydra: do you have walls in your deck? | ||
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stutters always lurk, never post stutters come talk with us I'll give ya a hug if you do ~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:25 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: The guy posting before you was Oats then Bin? Didn't seem to "Oatsy" to me. And THAT's why you sign your hydra posts PS. I had him down as Oats. Aggressive noobie entrance into the game  Talking over what is best for us with Dandelion with regards to Minds Aglow. /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:28 BinOnFire wrote: How long do people have to contribute mana for Join Forces effects? I'll be leaving in an hour and a half. If fewer than 5 other players have voiced an opinion on Minds Aglow by then, I'm going to hold onto it for now until everyone is aware of it. While our deck can REALLY profit from Minds Aglow, we can profit exponentially more if it is cast next turn. We are willing to commit all of next turn's mana to this. Also, don't forget that drawing lots of cards just leads to discarding lots of cards: so either have a point with discarding, or do it later when hands are emptier and people have more mana available. However: if other people have nothing to do with their mana this turn, a Minds Aglow this turn with us not contributing will set us up for a fucking giant start. /Acro & Dandy | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:37 BinOnFire wrote: Alternatively, I can mulligan again and hope to find Collective Voyage, which I'd argue is a much stronger turn 1 play. I'm not sure what the odds on that would be, but I think it's 1 - ((4 ncr 0)(56 ncr 5))/(60 ncr 5) ~= 30% of hitting one or more copies. MG Just a heads up: we are running 0 basic lands  | ||
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1 - 56/60 * 55/59 * 55/58) = 17.5% and leaves you with absolutely nothing else to do. Much better to risk it with Minds Aglow and hope you DRAW a Collective Voyage. | ||
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As we said, we'd be willing to contribute all 3 mana to it next turn. So we'd only need a couple extra after that (since otherwise you guys' hands will overflow too much - again: WE wouldn't mind that though. I just doubt it's practical for everybody )We can also to contribute to it this turn if need be, but would prefer it next turn. ~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: In this game, Join Forces effects are triggered simultaneously. It lasts until the end of the Main Phase. Does this mean that it will resolve at the end of the main phase? Or does this mean that as soon as someone contributes mana, you will allow everybody to do whatever the joint forces effect is (search for a basic land, or draw a card)? If it resolves at the end of the main phase and everybody draws a load of cards after casting time is over, then Minds Aglow is kind of useless this turn: it will allow everybody to draw lots of cards that they can't play and will have to discard in the end phase. | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote: I'd be scumhunting. I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?) Why so negative, igrok? 1. Anybody running mill (or any other combo deck) in this setup must be fucking insane. Mill is terrible in general in multiplayer and even worse in this setup (unless it's some kind of infinite combo deal that can mill everybody, but that was explicitly forbidden). 2. As MG stated: you draw a million cards this turn, hold onto your Darksteel Cololssus and your Eldrazi. Next turn you get all the lands in your deck. Turn 3, you just play them giant monsters out of your hand. Who cares about an 8/8 scum creature when there's enough stuff to blow everybody up a thousand times over? Your instant negativity rubs me the wrong way. /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:27 BinOnFire wrote: Players who don't contribute mana don't get the effect. We'd definitely want everyone in on it, both because it increases the bonus for everyone, and because the entire point of this line of play is to get everyone to an equally stronger position by T3. It would be actively bad to have a few players left out of it. Huh? That's not what the card says... http://magiccards.info/cmd/en/51.html Dredged up something on a forum which also disagrees with that. First each player gets the choice to pay mana. Second each player draws X cards, where X is equal to the total mana paid by everybody. | ||
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We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here:+ Show Spoiler + For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn  So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) | ||
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~dandel | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: The question is not "What else would you be doing this turn?"->"I'd be scumhunting" but rather "What else should you be doing right now?"->"I am scumhunting" Post reasoning for thinking someone is scum now. Everybody do this too please I'll start Stutters: blabla SuckTheDeck: blablabla Aperture Science: blablablue RockHydra: blub blub blub We are still missing Cros+Nova, maybe they are both the scumteam and everything I posted is irrelevant /G To expound on my fellow's head. Your try-hard "scumhunting" is not useful, and in fact is a detraction. It made us wonder whether you are a try-hard townie or a scum derailing the discussion about minds aglow, which was far more interesting than you analyzing people's first posts in the thread. Your last sentence says it all, pretty much. Nobody's entry into the thread was particularly noteworthy and you nattering on about it is just a distraction. If you were actually hunting for scum, that would be fine, but that's not what is happening. You are telling everybody else to post lists. That is the opposite of scumhunting. It's giving your conclusions. I have no conclusions and scumhunting is what I do to find things out. Now lets stop hogging the thread and let other people make some posts. I agree with you that I particularly want to hear from Marv, but it's 2 AM in England, so chances are he's asleep. Same for Nova. | ||
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Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now. Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card. Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too. If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie. I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that. And it's not like you can actually force people to do so. All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force". In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance. ~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:19 Stutters695 wrote: Haven't we established that using as much mana as possible isn't entirely helpful? Drawing is great but if we mill ourselves were ditching a lot of potentially powerful cards when we discard to seven since we won't have mana. Since you haven't mentioned it, what are your thoughts on forcing the scummiest players into contributing their mana for it? The more cards the better from our point of view. When Bin disclosed Minds Aglow we secretly hoped for > 10 cards. 15+ would be ideal: play land and ZI. Discard 20 cards to make 10 zombies. Next turn, kill scum. Turn 3, kill second scum. If failed on either attempt, die to scum monster in N3. So, in short, forcing "scummy players" to use their mana is great (and forcing all other players to do so is great as well), if we can find those scummy players in enough time and they cooperate. If they are in fact scum, why would they cooperate? | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Merely stating the truth. What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course. Also, you don't post much. What gives? ~dandel | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:48 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Okay, you never mentioned this part of your plan before. It could make sense, but you are not confirmed town so making other townies discard so many cards, and giving you so many monsters is not that good of a plan until you are very likely town, or at least we can control your monsters somehow. For that, I think we should wait until D2 or a little bit later for this plan of yours. Isn't that what we said from the start? D2 is better from our point of view? On the other hand, that's an entire turn delay. May not be worth it for other players: the faster we can get the cards, the faster the basic land search happens, which is the real jumpstart for most people. Also >20 cards, and having to discard so many of them may not benefit town as a whole, while having 3/4 cards has less risk, and does benefit town (or it appears so) Oh, I agree. We can only reason from our own deck's point of view. Other people might get completely screwed by having to discard over 10 cards and it might be a bad idea in general. But we get lots of zombies, which benefits town. Yes this is a huge part of the plan, so better let's get to it shouldn't we? If they don't cooperate, then we don't get additional cards. Big woopity woop. At worst another townie who could have withheld his mana until the end could use his mana for the additional cards, and that scum will be held under scrutiny Rhetorical questions... It is beyond obvious why scum would cooperate with the plan. If they think it helps them to look townie (and that town credit is more useful than whatever they would otherwise cast). We know that. You know that. Marv knows that. This whole discussion is stupid. Also this seems rather contradictory with your previous "Scum would obviously follow you" comment: So what do you think is more likely? Scum following me or not following me? Make up your mind and explain your contradiction Two players with different opinions and ideas sharing one account. WHAT IS THIS MADNESS? Also I'd gladly kill marv/S&B considering their "lurky not into the game that much" behaviour right now. I think this should be considered until they start giving more of a damn. /G Finally, we agree on something. Also, in your other post you said I was opposed to scumhunting. I suggest you actually LOOK at my filter. I have not posted my conclusions, but that is not the same as not scumhunting. Additionally, I think people's opinion about magic-related stuff gives perfectly good clues to their alignment. Discussing PLAYS is not the same as pointless setup speculation. Plays can be pro-town or anti-town. And reasons for being for or against something can also be pro- or anti-town. It is good information and I am using it to form opinions... aka scumhunting. /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:15 BinOnFire wrote: CH They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) Then your ENTIRE page 2 filter is whether minds aglow is good, WHICH IT IS. Hrmmm.. you on the other hand have asked our opinion on whether you should cast it. So you are now blaiming US for your discussion of magic stuff. And yes, we are childishly excited about the prospect of dropping billions of zombies on the field in turn 1. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote: All plays that involve people drawing cards are good for EVERYBODY. CH, explain how scum would not want to contribute mana regardless? Also, if you say only the scummy players contribute mana, you are giving scum a free out to 'prove' that they are town Please let Gonzaw do the talking again, you clearly have misunderstood everything. 1. Balance of power. Currently there are 7 townies and 2 scum (assuming standard balance for a 9player game). That means if townies and scum draw cards, town draws 3.5 times the amount of cards. Furthermore, at the moment, scum has an 8/8 creature and town has jack shit. Jumpstarting 7 town decks is worth FAR more than jumpstarting 2 scum decks (assuming scum don't have "instantly kill everybody" decks). In fact, one of the reasons for running the deck we are running is because it comes online quickly and can start doing stuff. Sure, this is good for scum, but it is absolutely necessary for town, who has a ticking time bomb under their seat. 2. I don't even know what you're trying to say in the second part. I am not giving scum a way of proving their towniness. Nowhere in ANY of my posts have I even implied that that is the case (and I don't think dandel has either). /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:31 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: lol, I thought you were the same guy posting from the beginning What was that about consolidating your opinions as hydra? >_> (lol) I disagree about the plays to be honest, because I don't think there is anything alignment-indicative about discussing plays, other than maybe instantly figuring out a game-breaking play or something. It's the same as discussing mason plans, or stuff like that in those big themed games. It is "setup speculation", end of point. Also most likely scum will discuss pro-town plans because the risk of "outing" themselves with the anti-town plans may not be worth it (every time I am scum I discuss in favor of "pro-town plans" for instance). Leaving that aside, what do you think of marv's recent play, him calling you out, arguing with me, etc? /G We try. Sometimes it doesn't work. It's why we sign our posts... Anyway, no worries now, Dandel went to bed. Well, as long as things are going okay for scum, they can just blend in, be pro-townie and have their unstoppable creature kill off town. However, being pro-townie too much and too long has disadvantages. Just as in a regular game you cannot just bus all your scumbuddies and expect to win (well, not most games), you cannot allow townies to create giant armies or get nigh infinite mana to cast giant fireballs of doom. I for one, think I gleaned some useful information from the discussion. Finally, Marv's standpoint seems strange. He attacks Dandel for stating the obvious. If you want strange ways of entering the thread, that was it. The ensuing discussion was just pointless bickering. Not much there, until he decides to repeat that what he saw was scummy. @Marv: why was Dandel stating the obvious scummy? | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:48 BinOnFire wrote: Did you not say that only scummy players contribute mana towards Minds Aglow? Then you said that it gives them a chance to look 'townie' Also, yes town can actually have some teeth, but this is also good for scum in the sense that a Vig is good for scum. More often than not, Vig's shoot town. Same with lynches. I would think that scum would want to get enough 'power' to 1 shot people as fast as possible to reduce the number of townies, thats why the card is also good for them /Oats Wrong Hydra. It was Poster boy who came up with that plan, not us. Dandel stated the obvious about it: fucking duh that following a plan that majority agrees with is a good one (and is thus a "town plan") gives the sheeples town credit for being a good little sheeple. Also, vigilantes are one of the stronger power roles. You're deluded (aka wrong) if you think they're pro-scum. | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:03 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Wait a minute... Acro, was this post made by you? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=18#345 It wasn't signed, and is the one with the "contradiction" Both you and dandel apparently agreed on the "scum will follow plans to appear pro-town" idea, so who made that post? Here is dandel agreeing with it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=18#342 Here is you agreeing with it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=19#372 I made that post. That scum will VOLUNTARILY follow the plan is clearly something completely different from anybody being able to force them into doing anything. That you think there's a contradiction is you not reading. | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Vig's are pro town, but in a game with no lurkers, the main target of vigi hits, Chances are that they are gonna hit town. Except now we have 7 vigis. Interesting, why do you think that? Lolololol. Flooding control. And Dandel had it earlier. I'll take the time to expound why this is interesting: it implies you have no confidence at all in your own ability to find scum. Is that so? | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:21 BinOnFire wrote: Chances. Do you know how probability works? there are 8 targets, 6 of them are town. so you hitting town is 75%. Which are really bad odds. Of course its not static, I could have a town read on a scum and then it becomes 6 town 1 scum, reducing the chances even more. Its day 1, CH. I have confidence in my reads, I dont see how that affects my previous statment I was going to respond with everything that is wrong about this post, but it's just derailing the discussion. Suffice to say, you are wrong. You are looking at the situation of everybody being given a gun in completely the wrong way. Lets get back on track, which is to point out that giving everybody more power enables town to actually DO stuff, whereas now all we can do is sit and watch an 8/8 mafia beast munch on us. The FASTER we can do stuff, the sooner we can strike back and the greater the chance that we can find and kill the mafias before the mafia beast kills all of us. Sure, mafia also gets stronger, but we get 3.5x as strong as mafia. Additionally, we close the gap on their 8/8 advantage. That means, they can't just rely on night kills, but have to act. The more mafia is forced to act, the greater the chance of us finding and killing them. | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well Acro, obviously that wasn't made clear >_> Acro, what do you think of Stutters+Bin? Do you think Midnight could be a "scum mastermi1nd" by claiming his whole deck with a "pro-town" card as that Voyager one, then heavily pushing the Mind Glow play this early? (or also anything about Oats that you may find funny?) Stutters is hard to say anything much about right now. I am very hesitant to say that Bin is town, because all he has really done is propose a pro-town play. However, given the deck he made, it seems unlikely he could have done any differently as scum. I had Oats' early posts as "too aggressive a start to be scum", but Dandel pointed out that Oats has started aggressively as scum in the past (not sure what game). Oats also seems adamant about pointing out how not pro-town the play actually is, which is just plain weird. Prom hasn't contacted me yet, but I asked this question to him in our QT (lol scumslip lol) basically. Stutters hasn't done much (like I'd expect lol), but his reaction to my plan seemed kind of townie for some reason. Like the way he instantly jumped on it being a "good idea", instead of waiting to see if the plan had support or not. Could be a red herring, but what do you think? Meh, as I said, it's mind-numbingly obvious that there's about 10,000 loopholes in your plan, on top of the fact that Stutters stated that he currently has nothing to spend his mana on anyway. Anyway, it's way past bedtime for me as well. G'night. | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:45 BinOnFire wrote: Ok for you, the reason why you want me to play Minds Aglow is to play 20 skeletons. That is the only reason so dont be all so 'herp derp town more cards = better' So do you disagree with my point? Or what. Dude, did you even read my post? I don't mention zombies at all. In fact, I talk in general terms. Stronger everybody = good for town. Also, what point was that? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [posts I made as Acro] + On January 29 2013 21:06 Acrofales wrote: I did the math (approximately, I didn't go into recursion of the game not ending, which I am not doing manually). If everybody gets strong and can 1-shot each other, there is about equal chances of town and scum winning. That is RANDOM shots and as opposed to right now when town has a 0% chance of winning. The more townies alive when we get to the point where people can 1-shot each other the better. Giving everybody a giant kickstart is therefore incredibly town favoured. Now, we can argue about whether your card gives town a sufficient kickstart. We can argue about whether a 10-card draw has any advantages over a 3-5 card draw for people other than me and Poster. But don't keep trying to say that getting everybody up to fucking giant size awesomeness is bad, because vigis' aim is terrible, because even with terrible aim we improve our chances drastically, and I have faith in town's ability to at least get the general direction right (otherwise all lynches would be scum-favoured as well, and they're not). Now... on to your other derp. You want us to explain why killing off the person with the lowest postcount is a terribly fucking awfully bad idea? I'm not going to. I want you to switch on your brain before posting random drivel like this. Also, you got called obvious town for suggesting a terrible policy in CT. I am not going to call you town for this and nobody else should either. I think you should have learned a bit of how mafia works in the meantime and you suggesting a terrible plan suggests you either learned nothing, or are trying to wheedle yourself into our good graces by following the recipe set out in CT. Now, this: is a completely useless throwaway post without some actual reasoning. Also, I want to know what you think of crossfire's entry into the thread. /Acro On January 29 2013 21:07 Acrofales wrote: @RockHydra: what flavour of storm are you running and should we be worried you can kill us all if you draw a monster hand? | ||
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On January 29 2013 18:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Well, I dont think that the 'voting' system will work to well cause you cant really enforce people to 'vote'. Ok what do you guys think about a lynch all lurker's policy, where we hit the person with the lowest post count with all that we got? What you say now: On January 29 2013 21:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Well the point of my policy is to find the lowest poster and DISCUSS whether we hit him or not. The lowest poster thing is not objective, town can make quality posts and scum can make quantity posts. So we go up the line and find the scummiest person, using Lowest post count as a guideline rather than our 'feel' These are very clearly two different things. In the former case, you hit the guy with the lowest postcount with "all we got". In the latter we analyse the quality of his posts, find the scummiest lurker and hit him. The latter is plain old lurker lynching, which I don't like as a policy, but generally agree with doing. The former was some rabid radical crazy incarnation of lurker lynching. You can see why people were confused that you thought this was a good idea. Anyway, who do you think is currently lurking (and don't say NT)? | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote: Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol). Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking. Apologetic, defensive, wishy washy? Hits them all. Hi scum, welcome to the thread! You don't get to play the noobie card, and if you're scum with marv, you need to streamline your tactics so only one of you does it next game. Coincidentally, mind telling me what you think of Marv? | ||
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On January 29 2013 22:44 RockHydra wrote: Nothing like that. Its a ninja deck. I've also come to the realization that a good chunk of my synergy went out the window, with the second main phase being cut. Nothing some communication upfront can't get around: can I attack you with my Ornithopter and you won't block it? That will let me do X damage to Joe with this Ninja I plan on playing. Otherwise I will have to do <insert plan B here>. Seems pretty straightforward. On January 29 2013 21:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Apologetic, defensive, wishy washy? Hits them all. Hi scum, welcome to the thread! You don't get to play the noobie card, and if you're scum with marv, you need to streamline your tactics so only one of you does it next game. Coincidentally, mind telling me what you think of Marv? Why is Crossfire forbidden from playing the noobie card? I actually would like you to explain why his apologetic entrance is scummy, because I have no issue with what Cross put down there. He was wishy-washy on policy, not scumhunting so that also speaks to the "noobie" side of the coin. ~Hopeless[/QUOTE] For the record, Marv is also forbidden from playing the noobie card. I was waiting for Xfire to respond, but the conversation died. I discussed it with Dandel in our tête-a-tête. There are three problems with Xfire's post. On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote: Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. This is apologetic and defensive. I know Xfire is not too bad of a mafia player (Dandel played with him in WLIIA and I observed Parallel Universes), so this is an a priori cop-out for doing anything useful this game. There is no town reason for pre-excusing yourself for fucking up. As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol). So the next thing he does after saying he knows nothing about magic, is dive into a magic discussion. Regardless of whether he's wrong or right + Show Spoiler + 100% wrong. Pulling up a killer hand is absolutely worth discarding 3/4 of your deck (as long as there's no mill deck). There's a reason Demonic Consultation is restricted in Vintage and that exiles your cards, rather than putting them in the GY. But the worst part is the last bit: Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking. 1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. | ||
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slight correction on Acro (who otherwise still is a very attractive man): I didn't play in WLIIA. I obs'd it pretty closely. I have not had the pleasure of actually playing with crossfire myself. ~dan doo | ||
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On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote: I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I might chalk this up to a lack of game knowledge, but this is a pretty serious misrepresentation of what Gonzaw said. He didn't say you can't block. He said that if you're wasting mana on shitty chump blockers instead of doing something useful with it (like contributing to a Minds Aglow, for instance), he considers policy lynching you. We need to grow town players to a point where we can fight back. Not play shitty chump blockers that serve no purpose beyond delaying your death (and cannot stop the mafia beast). Not to say that if you have a shitty chump blocker that you played for its useful side effect (mogg fanatic or so), that you can't use it to chump block if someone decides to attack you. The no-blocker policy is unenforceable anyway. In general townies should always favour attacking over blocking, but I can definitely agree with a townie defending against some giant beast with some chump, rather than doing 1 measly damage themselves (unless that 1 damage is enough to kill scum). /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 00:43 Aperture Science wrote: What I'm advocating (before anyone says "waaah all you ever do is tell us not to play things") is not to play things that could help scum. Lets see what we already know: Someone can have 10+ Zombies out T1 if you play Mind's Aglow, and can swing with them T2, killing someone. At least one person is running Fatties. Honestly I'd be happier with Fatties than a dozen Zombies. @Zeb, Artanis might not have thought that someone would play mind's aglow for 10 T1. I know he's okay with being able to combo out one player by turn 2, which is what cheerio storm does - unless it draws a dozen extra cards, then it combos everyone. You are running really scared of what scum *might* do, instead of thinking of what they probably WILL do. If there is some deck that will combo out everybody on T2, then it is 3.5x more likely to be on town side. Meaning we have a 7:2 chance of town winning on T2, right off the bat. Maybe we should discuss deck strategies a bit more and who is playing what, in order to decide whether any potential combos will fuck us over, or win us the game. Thereby shifting the probabilities even further in our favour. Also, you only have to fear zombies, if you're scum. Are you scum, iGrok? Your extremely cautious play indicates to me that you are. A townie being afraid of all the potential ways he can die would try to figure out whether they can and will actually happen, rather than fear monger with it. Also, as I said above, townies have statistics on their side and thus less reason to be scared. /Acro | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:18 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Clockwork, I suggest not getting into Aperture's back that much. If he is town, then I'm pretty sure a repeat of last game will happen (i.e everybody, including scum just tunneling him until he dies in D3/D4 and flips town) If you don't mercilessly attack him, he won't have any excuse if he fails to scumhunt. I still have my eyes on him though. /G What a weird post I havn't played with either of his heads yet, so I can't exactly be sure I guess, but I can't imagine somebody having such a thin skin that he's going to abandon his win-con just because a couple guys mentioned that he might, possibly, be scum. Is that normal for them? If so, why are they still playing Mafia? enlighten me. ~dandel | ||
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... not THIS turn at least. hoho. ~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 03:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Durr. Completely misread Collective Voyage. Heres the thing. I have a very low amount of basic lands, and from what i can tell, CH has none. what would this mean? Tons of zombies. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that we would know who the scum are even if we did end up with 7 players left, and I would think that we may be in a similar situation (of not knowing who the scum are) then. I would agree with using Collective Voyage on a smaller scale, but 20 lands each? I think we're begging for trouble. The strength of town is their numbers and collective majority, all we would end up doing is making it easier for people who make one slightly scummy mistake to get killed. We have good minds here, lets figure it out. I would like an explaination on this specific train of thought, and how you were able to come to this conclusion. ~dandel | ||
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@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum? /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 03:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Durr. Completely misread Collective Voyage. Heres the thing. I have a very low amount of basic lands, and from what i can tell, CH has none. what would this mean? Tons of zombies. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that we would know who the scum are even if we did end up with 7 players left, and I would think that we may be in a similar situation (of not knowing who the scum are) then. I would agree with using Collective Voyage on a smaller scale, but 20 lands each? I think we're begging for trouble. The strength of town is their numbers and collective majority, all we would end up doing is making it easier for people who make one slightly scummy mistake to get killed. We have good minds here, lets figure it out. Regardless of the zombie thing that you clearly just misunderstood, I don't see how making everybody able to 1-shot each other is a bad thing. It completely negates the 1 thing that scum have over town: their mafia creature. Whether Collective Voyage is able to put us in that position in T3? I don't know. It isn't for me (but Minds Aglow is, so the point is moot). I would be happy to contribute mana tomorrow to a collective voyage if it looks like it'll put a lot of townies in a powerful position. And if it happens to put scum in a powerful position too? Well, that's why we have NUMBERS on our side. Only risk is some combo deck being able to 1-shot everybody at once and that deck being in the hands of scum. I'll take my chances. Statistics favour us on that one as well. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 04:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Put it this way, Artanis didn't even really know we were hydraing until after the game started, and didn't know our hydra name (nor did I). Great, you're around. Find me some scum. All you've really done is make a really weak pressure post against us for "giving scum a recipe on looking townie" when you are better than that: it was blatantly obvious that going along with something that had gotten a "pro-town plan" stamp of approval could be used to gain town credit. Stating the obvious is not giving scum a recipe, it's stating the obvious. Your pressure was weaksauce and you spent like 5 posts arguing about it. You're better than that. Now stop playing LIX and pay attention here. Who's scum? /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 05:19 Acrofales wrote: I responded to the bits I found pertinent. Regarding attacking, I said something about it in a previous post where I addressed Xfire's weird aggression at Gonzaw. Attacking is great. Attacking is awesome. But if I have a choice between attacking with a 1/1 and chump blocking your giant eldrazi mofo that is going to fuck me up. I will chump block. Use that shit to attack scum. Also, willy nilly, everybody attacks whoever they feel like is pathetic and harmful to town (due to mafia creature being able to kill people it otherwise might not). Whoops. For the filter. | ||
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On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position. Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further. What alternative plan do you have for your mana? | ||
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Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies". /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:15 Aperture Science wrote: Lol, no. I have to fear zombies if A) Zombies are scum, -OR- B) Zombies think i'm scum. And since apparently every think's i'm scum, I have to fear them. I'm not the one going around telling everyone how they should play. I'm explaining various possibilities they need t obe aware of. From how many people asked for help building a deck, its obvious to me that not everyone has extensive mtg experience. This is a ridiculous statement. Town ALWAYS has statistics on their side. Actually, you've made a lot of ridiculous statements this game. Until I get a better idea of who is town, I'm not following anybody's plan. And unlike you, I can scumhunt without posting every thought that enters my head. God you're irritating. I'm going back to work Nice deflection there. Regarding A: do you? If not, why you agitating. Regarding B: you're not doing a very good job of looking like town, so are you particularly surprised that people think you're scum? Maybe step up your play and the shambling herd of zombies won't feel like eating your brains any more. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me. I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not. SnB I presume? Well, lets play this game. 1. What is the difference between this situation and town being given a vig? You have no control over who the vig shoots. Your job is therefore to help him scumhunt and make the right shot. So far you have done zip diddly squat of that. 2. I am presuming you are STILL butthurt over HRM? Can't see what else this can be. Also, if you make a convincing argument that someone is scum, or at the very least that you are not scum, then of course we'll listen. After like 4 or 5 games together I figure you'd know me as a pretty reasonable guy. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 06:25 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: its like electing a mayor. i dont want to vote for you, acrofales, to be mayor. (coughcoughholyromanmafiacough) Eh, like 95% of the game I was a fucking awesome mayor. I screwed up on trolling with Drazerk in the last day. That doesn't mean I didn't play a good game the other 95%. Also, get over it. That was half a year and like 4 or 5 games together ago. | ||
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On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card. What else would you spend your mana on? | ||
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On January 30 2013 06:44 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: So Nova, do you have any reads that are not null besides a town read on us? (me? How does one use the personal when one is more than one person?) P We were wondering when you'd make your appearance. You should drop in more often. Can you give us your own personal opinion on the state of the game? /both | ||
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On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote: Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho. Nice non-committal stance. I believe we have the highest postcount and it's not all meaningless setup banter either. Do you have an opinion of Poster? /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 07:03 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Sorry bro(s) I had one hell of a weekend, I've got some free hours today though so I'm here. I'll be here as much as I can, you know I just can't quit you. I like where we are, as a whole town seems to be scum hunting instead of set-up hunting which is what Gon and I said should be our day one goal if we rolled town. I am not too fussed about using mind aglow today as long as we don't have to discard a million cards, I know Gon already mentioned this but I think forcing all for town to discard 20 cards is actually anti-town (once again it goes back to numbers, town is discarding 7 cards for every two mafia discards). I have some decent town reads and I'm working on narrowing the suspect list so in terms of day one I'd say we're doing pretty pretty decent. As said before: discarding is only bad if you have to discard good shit. If you have to discard a load of land and a couple of cheap creatures when you can play your fatties next turn, it definitely doesn't hurt. It also allows any combo deck to pick the pieces together. Discard is only bad if you discard bad stuff. There's a reason cards like Merfolk Looter and Careful Study aren't seen as bad: you get to draw good stuff and discard shit. It may not be pure card advantage, but it's definitely boosting the quality of your hand. Especially as Bin can tell us whether he'll cast Voyage next turn before the discard phase, allowing you to plan ahead for that. | ||
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Pro tip: you can play both. Why enchants over elves? What deck you running? | ||
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Real men RNG ~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 07:50 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: That was out theory as well. Which of those hydras are you guys most worried about? i.e. where do your suspicions rest in that group? You will get that info in a bit. We have an opinion, but posting it is counterproductive at the moment. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 08:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Anyways, this means we can do any shit we want without scum communicating with each other freely! Come on post post post post, it may be the only time we can catch them like this! Oh baby! ~This important post is brought to you ~by ~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 08:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also considering Prome told me (and everybody) Stutters is this "useless" every time he's town, I am thus willing to "forgive" him and focus on Crossfire more, and also considering Xfire's "blunders" and contradictions and wishy-washy play so far I.e if I had 2 10/10 beasts I'd attack Cross right now and let Stutters be for another day. Please don't say this kind of stuff. Stutters: you are not getting a freebie from me. I don't give a shit about your meta. Start scumhunting or get zombied. | ||
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On January 30 2013 09:21 Aperture Science wrote: Final bit of MTG advice: Minds Aglow doesn't just affect whoever puts in mana. It makes EVERYONE draw those cards. Same with Collective Voyage. Whoever said "keep the players balanced" had the right idea. 20 Zombies isn't bad when everyone has them. They're bad when one player has them. This isn't a mayor game, lets not turn it into one. Balance works in a normal MTG game. This game has a giant scum monster that puts us on a time bomb. That basically means everybody needs to ramp up double speed and everything that helps us do that is good. Do you honestly think that SnB casting two land enchantments will help more than giving everybody 2 cards? Or hell, he can cast 1 land enchantment AND give everybody 2 cards. Sure, it helps us more, because we will get zombies out of discard. However, we have no fatties and no use from a potential subsequent collective voyage. Good chance that it will balance out in turn 3 and give everybody a monster start. I definitely don't see getting a bunch of zombies out as being elected mayor. Anyway, the Minds Aglow discussion is somewhat separate from the zombies. We do not HAVE to cast ZI and if everybody is soooo scared of us having some zombies, then we can delay that decision: even without discarding to turn them into zombies, it's worth it for us just to get our recycleable cards into play. Just as it should be worth it for pretty much everybody to get their power cards. The other thing that needs correcting is that for every 2 cards we discard we get 1 Zombie. If we draw and discard 10 cards, that will give us 5 zombies. Not 20. Lets stop exaggerating. Realistic expectation is somewhere between 5 and 7 zombies, depending on how much mana is contributed and how much extra we discard from our current hand. | ||
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/Acro (and so was the previous post) | ||
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~dandel | ||
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This whole discussion is pointless, stupid and going nowhere. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 09:55 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I also think that Minds Aglow has been discussed to death by now. Imho Bin should just cast it or say he won't and be done with it. That way everybody can play what they want. /Acro (and so was the previous post) | ||
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Just so, you know, you can actually play your card. Forest is not quite blue enough. ~dandel | ||
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Since we're not really expecting (people to want) much more cards. ~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 13:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: wut also i will tap my forest to play wild growth on my savannah then i will tap that to put two mana into the other thing also also arguing about how much gonzaw et al is/are posting is stupid. it's like you've never played a game with him before. i used to rage at him too but now i kind of just let the waves of posting wash over me. it makes deep analysis of the game pretty much impossible though, so you either have to filter specific people or else you have to just kind of play on general impressions. but with someone posting that much you can't try and read the whole game. it's just kind of his/their thing. i really wish they would not do it but ive pretty much given up, what are you gonna do. reads time: bin on fire is probably town because he feels town to me right now (lol) no but seriously bin on fire is probably town because of how he's being helpful and promoting discussion and shit. scumreads are tough but right now i'm pointing at whatever the acro hydra is. i really don't like how he was all "you gotta give me your power or else think i'm scum", forcing people into shitty dichotomies is not a good way to go about being townie. also how he's been running for mayor while refusing to acknowledge that he was running for mayor until we made him. okay bedtime -snb ![[image loading]](http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7543/hydraunconvincedmeme.jpg) I was going to put that in spoiler tags, but it deserves to be seen. Let me get this straight: I forced you into a shitty dichotomy? Nope. All I said was that you seem overly butthurt over HRM and if you had an actual reason for not wanting a shambling herd of zombies, you should come out and say so. Of course, my tone was taunting, because I really want you to post more, because I have been leaning scum on you all game and that has not improved over time. PS. I haven't asked NT or iGrok to call me scum and they also have their reservations about zombies. NT and iGrok are straightforward: iGrok just doesn't want rampant power growth from anybody and NT just doesn't want a null read getting too much power. I have my reservations about both reasons and have given my counter-arguments. You, however, shroud whatever reason you have in policy chatter. Instead of giving an actual straight reason you give vague platitudes like: On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position. Which sounds great, but you give no actual way of MAKING everybody stronger. Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum. You... well: 1. Utter dearth of sensible scumhunting in your filter. 2. Vague policies with no practical import to the game. 3. Inconsistent play: fear of zombies into giving away free zombies. But it's okay, you're probably both back into lurk and I won't get a response. You have until the attack phase of D2 to convince me you're not scum. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 18:22 RockHydra wrote: The underlined part is just not true. Don't post lies unless you wanna appear scummy. Not a lie. It's entirely from my point of view, but it's not a lie. /Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 15:47 Nova_Terra wrote: ##Tap: Forest for Join forces Need to do this in the board thread too | ||
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On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote: <snip> Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote: -snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: 1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote: -snipped- Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro You totally should have read MTG Mini Mafia 1. Nobody is summarizing it for you. Asking for a summary made me think you were either lazy, or trying to get other people distracted. The former is a null tell, the latter is a scum tell. I chose to phrase it as a scum tell to gauge your response. Also, no contradiction: you really should have read MTG Mini Mafia 1. I'd say that the way this game is moving, if your time is limited, you're probably better off just focusing on this game now, though. Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote: rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here:+ Show Spoiler + For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum. I don't see a contradiction. Look closely. Use that thing that is supposedly between your ears. So. Now that we have dismantled this entire atrocity of a case, do you have any actual contributions to the game? I should probably discuss with dandel before deciding whether you're scum or not. My gut is screaming the same as gonzaw's, but dandel was rather null on you yesterday and preferred someone else as Suck's partner in crime. I suggest you start playing. I have no past history with you. I read PU and you were confirmed town like 10 minutes into the game (or so). Dandel followed WLIIA mafia and here's what he said about you that game: [1/29/2013 10:33:50 AM] Dandel Ion: i read/obs'd WLIIA [1/29/2013 10:34:01 AM] Dandel Ion: where he also played okay-ish [1/29/2013 10:34:26 AM] Dandel Ion: but it fits his wliia play a bit, because he was kinda confused about the theme [1/29/2013 10:34:56 AM] Dandel Ion: on the other hand, he had some ridiculous plans about the setup there [1/29/2013 10:35:10 AM] Dandel Ion: which at least means he tried to do something [1/29/2013 10:35:17 AM] Dandel Ion: not seeing that so far + Show Spoiler + I cut out my irrelevant interjections. Show us some of that town play. /Acro | ||
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*cry* ~dandel | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On January 30 2013 22:06 RockHydra wrote: If you tell people how to feel, it might be better to look at it from their POV. /zebezt Why, that's completely pointless. If you tell me that you're afraid of the dark, I'm not going to look at it from your point of view. I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the dark and give you a bunch of reasons for why the dark isn't scary. You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you! | ||
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On January 30 2013 22:25 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: How can you guarantee this? Is there something I'm missing? No guarantees. But at the moment it sure looks like they're heading your way. A big post that says "I'm harmless and useless" but does nothing much else is not convincing me otherwise. | ||
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I wouldn't call it proven. I expect it to be falsified when marv flips scum. Carry on. | ||
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On January 30 2013 23:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Which is precisely why you and your judgement shouldn't be trusted... So get off your ass, stop taking cheap shots and show us why you're town. | ||
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MTG Mini Mafia I (lurked through the whole game. Toad posted. Verdict: scum. There was another game, but I can't remember which one. You lurked through D1 and were scum. It was before CT and I didn't play in it. I tried searching through your profile, but I can only get it to show the last 10 pages of posts (might be date limited) and have no clue how to search for older posts. Also, the defense that you are never suspected D1 as scum is a complete non-sequitur. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are scum this game. Are you seriously trying to say that because we suspect you of being scum, you can't be scum. Is that REALLY your defense? /Acro | ||
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If we tell you that Oats is rather newbie, does that change your verdict in any way? Some things you have down as strong tells I really don't agree with. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 12:48 BinOnFire wrote: Did you not say that only scummy players contribute mana towards Minds Aglow? Then you said that it gives them a chance to look 'townie' Also, yes town can actually have some teeth, but this is also good for scum in the sense that a Vig is good for scum. More often than not, Vig's shoot town. Same with lynches. I would think that scum would want to get enough 'power' to 1 shot people as fast as possible to reduce the number of townies, thats why the card is also good for them /Oats You give them 7 scum points for this, yet I don't see anything except someone being wrong in a weird way. I do agree with you that it is weird that their whole deck idea is supposedly based around getting everybody up to speed fast, yet Oats is apparently totally not on-board with that plan. Did you guys not discuss the deck beforehand? But is this a scumtell? Or just someone not understanding what the deck is about? I personally didn't have Bin down as town yet, mainly because I feel he could not play his deck any other way and he doesn't done much in the scumhunting department, but I don't have a scum read on him for the things you bring up. | ||
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On January 31 2013 00:41 BinOnFire wrote: Wishy-washy as fuck post. 'I dont think he is scum, blablabla, What you say is accurate, but it could make him both scum and town, blablabla I dont think he is town cause his deck is town favoured but he has been useless.' Uhuh Acro. Ok this sounds to me that you have a scum read for a different reason. Care to share? No. I have a null read on you. | ||
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I thought you were an aggressive little townie noob, although Dandel Ion said you had jumped out of the starting blocks aggressively before as scum. However, you kept up the style and that was okay for me to write you off into the "look into later category" because there are people I think are scummier than you. I then looked over iGrok's analysis and kinda disagree on calling you scummy for the stuff he calls you scum about, so I said that. That doesn't make you town, it just keeps me on my null read of you. | ||
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On January 31 2013 00:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Here, I'll elaborate. I thought you were an aggressive little townie noob, although Dandel Ion said you had jumped out of the starting blocks aggressively before as scum. However, you kept up the style and that was okay for me to write you off into the "look into later category" because there are people I think are scummier than you. I then looked over iGrok's analysis and kinda disagree on calling you scummy for the stuff he calls you scum about, so I said that. That doesn't make you town, it just keeps me on my null read of you. To expand, he opened agressively as scum and got lynched on day 1 because his scum was so obvious. A point that's not worth much, since I have to assume he improved his play since then. So that doesn't make him town, it's a null tell. --> null read. Oats, it would do you well to actually read posts (WHOLE posts) instead of just bolding some sentences you don't like and going all passive-aggressive on them. ~dandel | ||
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On January 31 2013 00:55 BinOnFire wrote: Just playing the devil's advocate in that whole series of posts. Why the hell were you playing devil's advocate against something that was YOUR play to begin with. Here is the plan, as described by your hydra head: On January 29 2013 09:41 BinOnFire wrote: So let me rephrase my two lines of play: 1) Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (very high odds if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3. 2) Mulligan, hope to draw Collective Voyage (30%, I checked the math), everyone has ~10 lands in play for T2. I like the first one - it's much safer, and leaves us all in a much stronger position on T3. Thoughts, everyone? Picking option 1... and then: On January 29 2013 09:45 BinOnFire wrote: To further expand on plan 1) Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (77% if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3. Now are you saying you were not on board with this plan? Or were you and you were just engaging in a pointless discussion with someone else (me) who was on board with the plan. I wrote it up to noobishness, but it turns out it was intentional play. Sorry, iGrok, you may be onto something. | ||
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On January 31 2013 01:09 BinOnFire wrote: My play, but there are downsides too, which like no one addressed. After it was suggested, there was no opposition so its not like I had to push it or anything. Look, how does that make me scummy? /Oats Here: 1. You propose a plan. 2. People discuss the plan a bit and decide that it's generally okay. 3. You decide that instead of dropping the discussion and starting to scumhunt (which you still haven't started, btw), you should discuss it more, but now you say it's a bad plan. 4. People (me) bite and it derails the thread for another few pages or so. All this accomplishes 2 things: 1. You look busy and innocent. 2. It buries potential useful information and ensures town keeps talking about nonsense. Is there a town explanation too? Yes. It boils down to you being an idiot. So we have to answer the question whether you are an idiot, or scum? /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 01:20 BinOnFire wrote: What is your definition of scumhunting? So are you scummy for derailing the thread? Double Standerds here. This game is really weird for me to scumhunt cause so far, 1/2 of it has been setup discussion. However, Aperture's post was a good thing, in that it created discussion between the 3 of us. Hopefully, MORE PEOPLE WILL RESPOND TO IT. I had one viewpoint: For me: more cards = more zombies. more zombies = good thing. For bin: more cards = more chance of getting collective voyage = more lands for everybody (except me) = good thing. For everybody else: more cards = improved hand = good thing. I might have gotten carried away in defending that viewpoint, but I wasn't purposefully dragging out the discussion. I honestly thought people were not understanding why more cards was a good thing. I was NOT purposefully dragging out the discussion by inventing new opinions with the sole purpose of playing devil's advocate for my own plan. See the difference there? /Acro | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Posts correctly signed count, for gonzaw's pleasure: Clockwork: 41 unsigned 56 signed DFTP: 63 unsigned 66 signed ebwops with names and missposts on main accounts are condensed as "signed". Observe the difference in ratio. As you can clearly see in my exhibit, gonzaw is a narcissistic person that likes to delude himself into thinking he's on a greater realm than other people. When in reality, he is inhabitating a glass house. Thank you for your attention. ~Dandel Ion - CEO of Quality Posts By Quality Posters Inc. | ||
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On January 31 2013 04:27 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Marv, baby, talk to me about how you read hopeless right now. I need some help. P I had thought you prided yourself on being able to read hopeless relatively well? ~dandel | ||
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I said shouldn't give dubious people too much power, but we're not dubious. We're blatantly town. ~dandel | ||
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On January 31 2013 05:07 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Ok, I am now suspicious of Acro. Unlike MG he knows my play and if he really thinks what I did on Bin is at all alignment indicative of me, he's either being stupid or he's mafia. - marvelbabe lolk ~dandel | ||
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~dandel | ||
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Concerning cards: not the best of cards, not the worst of cards. We can do 9 damage this turn. We'll play 4 zombies and a basking rootwalla. /both | ||
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We also absolutely loathe the presence of deathrite shaman. /Acro | ||
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If Deathrite Shaman fucks with our graveyard, Xfire will die in a Zombie Apocalypse. /both | ||
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Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games: LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1. I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game. The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day. Verdict: scum Then we get this: + Show Spoiler [Marv's defense] + On January 30 2013 22:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Hi. I said I found Cross suspicious, and told you something I noted about it. I'm not gonna rehash what has already been said by multiple other posters. Although if it would make you happy I can have a go at rephrasing the same things again (hint: I won't do this). As far as I'm aware, I'm also one of the first (if not the first) to give the opinion of Stutters that his posts seemed interested and his empty promises mean nothing for alignment. Simply enough I was never going to post a lot this game. Last Magic game I did not a single thing, so this is me trying some As for Aperture, I did the meme because I found what he did hilarious in its hypocrisy. I don't know how to judge it so much right now, and he'll have to be judged on his long-awaited scumhunting after the 'profiling' of the players that he's apparently carrying out. I don't really share my other half's suspicion of CH right now, although Acro is someone I'm generally extremely wary of being able to play a strong town game as mafia. I don't particularly like the condescending tone Acro has taken in several of his posts, but I don't think that has to be indicative of him being mafia. -marvelbabe This touched all the wrong keys. Marv is a good player, he knows when he has been contributing and when he hasn't. So why the hell bother making this post? It's a load of nothing in which he claims to have done more than he has, and in the next breath says he won't do much this game at all. It is NOT a post I would associate with Marv as either alignment, so we have to throw meta overboard (as with most of his play this game): in that case I see no town reason for making a post in which you claim to contribute, apologize for not contributing and fill it out with a bit of fluff. Verdict: scum Marv's redemption (a bit). The only post by Marv that makes me think he might be town is this response to me "catching him out": + Show Spoiler [Marv figuring things out] + On January 31 2013 05:21 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: It means you fail at analysis, and you overestimate yourself. As mafia, playing a card like MG played is obviously a pretty big deal, as it has large implications and certainly seems pro-town. There really would have to have been a specific conversation about it if they were mafia, I think. On the other hand, as town, MG would just be playing this card because it's good for town, and the need to plan it out is far less. To me it seems pretty obvious that a mafia Bin would have talked this over and made sure they were united far more than a town Bin. That is why I consider it somewhat of a town tell, not a null tell. This is somewhat analogous to how in normal games, mafia players usually post and stuff by themselves, but for big decisions like who they're looking to mislynch the next day or who they're going to NK, they're going to talk about it. Now this impressed me for two reasons: the first is that IF this was a scum play, it was fucking fast. The time difference between the posts is 5 minutes, which is a damn short time to come up with an elaborate story like this. The second is that it makes a coherent train of thought and it seems as if Marv thought of this first, then jumped to the conclusion he came to, and posted his conclusion. When I then asked him how he had missed something obvious, he posted the rest of his reasoning, which fills in the gaps. Verdict: town He then goes on to finding Nova scummy for almost exclusively bad reasons. SnB starts off terribly and spends almost all his time posting about magic-related stuff. I jumped to the conclusion fairly early that he is scum and I know SnB fairly well. He is not usually as useless as this. However, as scum he is prone to lurk and when posting, do nothing of value. Verdict: scum However, while I find his defense against attack terrible, I cannot argue that it is terrible at first sight only: On January 31 2013 04:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: lol yeah if we were scum theres no way marv would be letting me play like this At first I just raged, because Marv was making such a big deal about how they are hardly communicating at all and the lack of a QT. However, if they are scum, they don't need a QT, they have a scumQT. Whether Marv would be able to stop SnB from posting like a tard is a moot point: the new question is whether they would really not sync up their stories, if they actually WERE communicating? Verdict: town His other defense against MG's case is pathetically bad, though. It's so outrageously bad that I am not sure what to make of it, because the case had some good points and they are all dismissed with offhand remarks. The case against Nova is pathetic. As Dandel pointed out to me: it's as if Marv and SnB pre-picked Nova as a target and then started gathering "dirt" on him. They shrug off Nova's case as not indicative of alignment (it isn't), yet present one themselves which is even worse. + Show Spoiler [annotated "case"] + On January 31 2013 05:03 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: this is silly, someone else pointed it out before, but life gain is so weak in this format that i doubt scum would be worried, still that could be explained by him not knowing much about mtg, null leaning scum a little bit tell. Not indicative of alignment. You even say so yourself, yet throw in a "little bit of a scum tell" for absolutely no fucking reason at all. sucking up to gonzaw, who has a history of being partial towards people who suck up to him (see last mtg mafia), this is scummy. also misunderstanding the importance of card advantage but that's okay because not everyone has studied mtg theory, this is null. not wanting acro to get zombies is fine but not a towntell or a scumtell/ Not indicative of alignment. None of it. Buddying ALONE is not a scumtell. It could be a sincere opinion. what what "powering up town is bad because town can kill people more easily and they might be wrong" the solution to that is to not be wrong. it's okay to oppose powering up individual players if you think they might be scum or if you think they are likely to use that power impulsively to kill townies. it's not okay to oppose powering up town as a whole. what what Weren't you opposed to me getting zombies for the exact same fucking reason? The whole thing is not indicative of alignment in any case. nice jumping in to share widespread town sentiment without providing any reasoning. like, i dont see anywhere above here in your filter you saying that crossfire is scum or explaining this suspicion. Fluff = not indicative of alignment. ditto the above, way to not actually say anything. "marvs typical posting style" lolwut, there's no way you havent seen at least a couple other games from him, hes ubiquitous. also there's literally no explanation of what nova finds scummy about marvs posts so far. and how the crap was my policy post cut and pasted? except that its the same policy i proposed last time i was town in an mtg game? Zzzzz, 2/3 of Marv's D1 was not following any meta and was just plain lurking. The only game anybody has ever played where Marv lurked, he was scum. Your policy post was just flat-out terrible. It was beside the point, hashed together and useless. Who cares whether it's cut-and-pasted. How is this indicative of alignment anyway? Nova says he'll post reasons from work. He then says work is utter chaos due to unforeseen shit. You then harrass him for reasons. Herpaderp. You could just have waited and if they weren't there tomorrow or so, then jump on it. lolk well this sucks we should wait a few days before we kill him. good thing we have to. also note that this is only an explanation for his recent absence not for his earlier terrible and scummy posting. So in short, the whole case is bogus. Now making a bad case is not necessarily a scumtell, but SnB was under quite a bit of pressure to get some scumhunting done and it looks like they picked their target based on a combination of easy shot on someone who hasn't really contributed much and a bit of OMGUS. They then gathered "evidence" to fit the case, rather than the other way round. Verdict: scum PS. I know I just did Nova's defense for him, but he has already responded and the case was terrible anyway. These are just my own findings from filter diving. Dandel is doing his own analysis (although we played some back and forth in skype). He didn't have time to finish, and can hopefully give you more tomorrow. For now, you have Acro's conclusions: is this a blatantly obvious scum? No. There's some stuff that doesn't scan with them being scum. But after reading the filter from back to front, front to back and inside out, I am still fairly confident that there is something seriously off with both Marv and SnB's play and the most obvious explanation is that they're scum, despite the town tells. /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 15:47 Nova_Terra wrote: Well i was trying to stay relatively null on CH but im having a hard time finding a scum motivation on any part of his last analysis, and its quite similar to the thoughts i was having but was unable to put them down well. BinonFire makes good points about rockhydra, who would be my 2nd priority for a hydra scum. Just woke up and this post sprang out of the page to me: why were you trying to stay null on me? It sounds like a remarkably strange thing to do. This is a question for Nova and if anybody else answers I will shoot you in the face. Nova, I need you to answer. /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 12:14 MidnightGladius wrote: When you ask so nicely, how could I possibly refuse you? http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/eH55vAZ5JTcd This was funny. Also hydra fail /A | ||
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On January 30 2013 07:06 Nova_Terra wrote: If there isnt muh additional posting and help made by crossfire and stutters by tomorrow, i will be significantly more worried about those two. Well. Worried? Or not worried? Why? | ||
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On January 31 2013 19:49 Nova_Terra wrote: Very good question. I've had a variety of vibes from you and not much else, and so i thought it would be better to refrain from making much out of you until i could find some better logic. You seem to know why it's a good question. Why? | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:23 Stutters695 wrote: CH What happened to not giving me a free pass? You said that and haven't even mentioned me since? What's going on there? Checking what I pulled. I'll see if I have anything I can drop to help the town's monsters. You posted some of your reads. You float around in the back of my mind. Is there really much point in yelling repeatedly at someone who's inactive to not be inactive? You knew you were on my watch list. I give you time. You deliver or you don't. In this case you kept up the same level of contribution. I wasn't expecting you to suddenly go hyperactive. Early on you seemed suspicious of Xfire and were going to read the hydras. You then say: On January 31 2013 09:14 Stutters695 wrote: Well crossfire is my number one read but he's been discussed to death. I'll have a post explaining my next best read when I get a few minutes of downtime at work. In the meantime I'll contribute to discussions however I can. I will say I feel a bit better about AS now that he's a bit more into it. Right now I don't think Nova is scum so if X turns out to be town I'd bet on a double hydra team. I wouldn't say Xfire has been discussed to death. I would like to hear your take on him. Also, any read on AS or Suck? /Acro | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:33 Crossfire99 wrote: I'm according to my reads at this time, which happen to be the smae as the big last post because I haven't had time to play since then. Seriously. And thinking about it some more right now. Clockwork's whole be careful about powering invidual people up and then asking everyone to do it to him reminds way too much of strong from WLIIA, except here clockwork had the balls to tell everyone to be careful of just what he was doing this game. Strong in WLIIA at least didn't try to say bewware of the very thing he was doing. You really just plain didn't read our posts, did you? We never said to be careful of someone powering up. We said: we will not cooperate in powering up someone we do not have a town read on and will be HAPPY to help if we DO have a town read. Now guess who our strongest town read is on? Hint: it is someone whose role PM we read. We are thus going to encourage everybody to cooperate with that plan! Now this whole CH is scum thing from you sounds like you're stuck in an OMGUS loop that you can't get out of. You have given no reasons (except really shitty ones) and are using it as an excuse to do no actual scumhunting. Stop tunneling, or find some actual reasons for doing so. /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 22:49 Acrofales wrote: Xfire and Nova: still waiting for answers. Suck: do something useful instead of repeating what has already been said. Shit. | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:16 Acrofales wrote: Crossfire, I really need you to tell us who you want to attack. If it's us, we won't block, because all our creatures will be attacking this turn, but you'd better have a damned good reason for nailing us with 3 damage. If you are keeping your creatures as blockers, you'd better have a damned good reason. Oh ffs. Switched to send a PM, checked the thread and fucking did it again. I fail so badly at hydraing. | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:19 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Gon has given my read, I'm finding him on the townie side of things, he has that comfortable feeling I get from a town hopeless. Have you ever seen a scum say 'I dunno, no one seems scummy to me' or 'I am lurky' those just feel like things a town hopeless. p H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. Pretty bad of you to take that as a town tell from him. Other than that, I still have to filter him properly, so no comment. /Acro | ||
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"I am lurky" feels like a town hopeless Response: H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. I can, and do, read. | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:28 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Then you fail at understanding the point he was putting across. Prome was saying Hopeless was comfortable, casual, loose with it, rather than uptight and using it defensively. I wouldn't fail, if Prom would actually say what he means, rather than making us guess about whether he means the content or the form of stuff he quotes. Anyway, I've decided that before filtering Rock and AS, I should take a better look at you. I went with an early gut read and left you in the town corner, but have not ever taken a stab at actually looking at your filter. Flooding the thread will not stop me from filtering you. I've played with Xatalos! /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:33 Nova_Terra wrote: I currently think that crossfire is more suspicious. His plying an antitown card 1 minute before deadline without saying anything, and then his getting mad seemed very fake agnflagsbfnsisnfnatbf. Cause around 10 seconds after i made the post i wondered if anyone was gonna ask me about that. You are avoiding actually answering the question. But it's okay. I guess you weren't merely using that shit to buddy up to me. Suck already ran interference for you anyway (which is not particularly indicative of alignment, just irritating). I don't agree with you that Xfire's MTG play is indicative of alignment at all. I think his timing might be funky, but his DECK cannot be indicative of alignment. His subsequent USE of that creature will be telling, but I don't see him playing it (without knowing exactly what else he has in his hand and how his deck is supposed to work) as saying anything. Just as our discarding of Larry's Disk says NOTHING about our alignment and anybody trying to read shit into it is wrong (not that I am worried about you thinking I'm town because of it, it's just fucking stupid to use THAT of all things to think so). Your idea of what is indicative of alignment has so far been decidedly odd. I have seen you play before and I was under the impression you usually reason things out better than you have so far. I am not sure about you and I'll be honest, we probably won't attack you, because Dandel had the impression earlier that you're town (although that might have changed since yesterday) However, you are rapidly scoring points in my scumometer. /Acro | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:44 Aperture Science wrote: Before everyone gets too worked up about Deathrite Shaman, yes it can do 2 damage but it can also do other things. If he does 2 damage he's scum. If he doesn't, well, I'll have to run analysis tonight. I would value your opinion before the attack phase ends. So far you have said shit about Bin, which has not convinced me he's scum. Other than that, I know very little about what you think about anybody. Please do Xfire and/or Suck. /Acro | ||
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Also some outstanding questions: 1. You may indeed play instants during the attack phase (see OP). 2. Given the choice between a 2/0 and a 0/6 creature, I would always play the 0/6, because the 2/0 goes straight to the graveyard /Acro | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:04 RockHydra wrote: My reasons for having 0/X creatures are completely separate from the merits of playing Mafia. They were selected based on the supposed synergy they provide for my deck. In addition, my deck was selected before my alignment so your entire argument is completely invalidated. I have 0/X creatures and I will play them because they further my goals, and ultimately the town's goals since I need my deck to function in order to do anything. If you feel the need to policy an 0/X creature, you're doing it wrong. ~Hopeless I'm headed out to dinner. Here you say they further your goals, which is presumably to play ninjas. However, the first thing you actually DO with them is: On January 31 2013 08:28 RockHydra wrote: <snip> I have no reason to attack this turn, so I'm not gonna. I wouldn't mind if cross pointed his goblin guide at me since I can block it with minimal/no repercussions (aside from a tapped goblin). ~Hopeless AKA keep them as a blocker. Why the inconsistency in play? I'm starting to agree with SnB here. If a creature can attack, it should be. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote: wait what? which filter have I been looking at, stutters hasn't done shit to me Stutters, imho, is one of the towniest players in the game. That is, imho a lot more valuable than SnB's half-arsed read of Nova based on almost exclusively bad tells. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Somehow I missed this terrible post, most of which I've deleted. Acro is being extraordinarily selective. Here's the final votecount from LVIII (town): Here's marvellosity claiming in Paranoia because he got in trouble day 1: Selective meta picking is extremely scummy, Acro. Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING: On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: You best be providing some good evidence for this one. Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never. -marvelbabe I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied). Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum. Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Why is it the worst defence, again? Over the 8 games (i think) I've played as mafia, I've never been suspected day 1, because I'm very good at fabricating evidence and reads. As just provided, I'm suspected on Day 1 because I don't bullshit reads so it can look like I've contributed less as town. That's just fact. No that's a fucking excuse to do nothing and say "olololol I do something as scum so I have to be town!!!!" which is some of the worst reasoning I've seen in my life. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Why is it the worst defence, again? Over the 8 games (i think) I've played as mafia, I've never been suspected day 1, because I'm very good at fabricating evidence and reads. As just provided, I'm suspected on Day 1 because I don't bullshit reads so it can look like I've contributed less as town. That's just fact. Your supporting evidence is simply that you haven't been caught. It's like a burglar being caught after committing 20 crimes without being caught and saying "well, because I wasn't caught the other 20 times, I cannot have been the burglar this time, because I wouldn't get caught". It ignores all other evidence that points to you being scum and simply assumes the conclusion. You commit an inductive fallacy. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: No, it's like saying there's 2 houses I like to break into as a burglar. For the first house, I keep having to run away from the police because I bungle it a bit. For the second house, I never have to run from the police because I plan the robbery so perfectly. The fact that I'm running away from the police in this situation isn't perfect evidence that I tried to burgle the first house, but it would indicate it. Boooooyaaaaaaa No, because the vast majority of the times you enter house 1 you don't have to run from the police either and you have conveniently discarded all of that from your sample. | ||
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On February 01 2013 04:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: But I've never had to run from the police in the 2nd house... ever...... again, it isn't perfect evidence, but it does point to one house over the other... No, it doesn't, because your fingerprints are all over the damn house. Now let me read Rock's filter. | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:10 RockHydra wrote: I have no mana with which to ninjutsu anything into play. Attacking with two 0/3 creatures for shits and giggles isn't my style unfortunately ~Hopeless Your earlier post: I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone. You only accept people not attacking if they are legitimately doing other things. You are not. Why you contradict yourself? | ||
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Here are my earlier thoughts: nothing has changed. On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this: Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games: LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1. I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game. The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day. Verdict: scum Then we get this: + Show Spoiler [Marv's defense] + On January 30 2013 22:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Hi. I said I found Cross suspicious, and told you something I noted about it. I'm not gonna rehash what has already been said by multiple other posters. Although if it would make you happy I can have a go at rephrasing the same things again (hint: I won't do this). As far as I'm aware, I'm also one of the first (if not the first) to give the opinion of Stutters that his posts seemed interested and his empty promises mean nothing for alignment. Simply enough I was never going to post a lot this game. Last Magic game I did not a single thing, so this is me trying some As for Aperture, I did the meme because I found what he did hilarious in its hypocrisy. I don't know how to judge it so much right now, and he'll have to be judged on his long-awaited scumhunting after the 'profiling' of the players that he's apparently carrying out. I don't really share my other half's suspicion of CH right now, although Acro is someone I'm generally extremely wary of being able to play a strong town game as mafia. I don't particularly like the condescending tone Acro has taken in several of his posts, but I don't think that has to be indicative of him being mafia. -marvelbabe This touched all the wrong keys. Marv is a good player, he knows when he has been contributing and when he hasn't. So why the hell bother making this post? It's a load of nothing in which he claims to have done more than he has, and in the next breath says he won't do much this game at all. It is NOT a post I would associate with Marv as either alignment, so we have to throw meta overboard (as with most of his play this game): in that case I see no town reason for making a post in which you claim to contribute, apologize for not contributing and fill it out with a bit of fluff. Verdict: scum Marv's redemption (a bit). The only post by Marv that makes me think he might be town is this response to me "catching him out": + Show Spoiler [Marv figuring things out] + On January 31 2013 05:21 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: It means you fail at analysis, and you overestimate yourself. As mafia, playing a card like MG played is obviously a pretty big deal, as it has large implications and certainly seems pro-town. There really would have to have been a specific conversation about it if they were mafia, I think. On the other hand, as town, MG would just be playing this card because it's good for town, and the need to plan it out is far less. To me it seems pretty obvious that a mafia Bin would have talked this over and made sure they were united far more than a town Bin. That is why I consider it somewhat of a town tell, not a null tell. This is somewhat analogous to how in normal games, mafia players usually post and stuff by themselves, but for big decisions like who they're looking to mislynch the next day or who they're going to NK, they're going to talk about it. Now this impressed me for two reasons: the first is that IF this was a scum play, it was fucking fast. The time difference between the posts is 5 minutes, which is a damn short time to come up with an elaborate story like this. The second is that it makes a coherent train of thought and it seems as if Marv thought of this first, then jumped to the conclusion he came to, and posted his conclusion. When I then asked him how he had missed something obvious, he posted the rest of his reasoning, which fills in the gaps. Verdict: town He then goes on to finding Nova scummy for almost exclusively bad reasons. SnB starts off terribly and spends almost all his time posting about magic-related stuff. I jumped to the conclusion fairly early that he is scum and I know SnB fairly well. He is not usually as useless as this. However, as scum he is prone to lurk and when posting, do nothing of value. Verdict: scum However, while I find his defense against attack terrible, I cannot argue that it is terrible at first sight only: At first I just raged, because Marv was making such a big deal about how they are hardly communicating at all and the lack of a QT. However, if they are scum, they don't need a QT, they have a scumQT. Whether Marv would be able to stop SnB from posting like a tard is a moot point: the new question is whether they would really not sync up their stories, if they actually WERE communicating? Verdict: town His other defense against MG's case is pathetically bad, though. It's so outrageously bad that I am not sure what to make of it, because the case had some good points and they are all dismissed with offhand remarks. The case against Nova is pathetic. As Dandel pointed out to me: it's as if Marv and SnB pre-picked Nova as a target and then started gathering "dirt" on him. They shrug off Nova's case as not indicative of alignment (it isn't), yet present one themselves which is even worse. + Show Spoiler [annotated "case"] + On January 31 2013 05:03 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: this is silly, someone else pointed it out before, but life gain is so weak in this format that i doubt scum would be worried, still that could be explained by him not knowing much about mtg, null leaning scum a little bit tell. Not indicative of alignment. You even say so yourself, yet throw in a "little bit of a scum tell" for absolutely no fucking reason at all. sucking up to gonzaw, who has a history of being partial towards people who suck up to him (see last mtg mafia), this is scummy. also misunderstanding the importance of card advantage but that's okay because not everyone has studied mtg theory, this is null. not wanting acro to get zombies is fine but not a towntell or a scumtell/ Not indicative of alignment. None of it. Buddying ALONE is not a scumtell. It could be a sincere opinion. what what "powering up town is bad because town can kill people more easily and they might be wrong" the solution to that is to not be wrong. it's okay to oppose powering up individual players if you think they might be scum or if you think they are likely to use that power impulsively to kill townies. it's not okay to oppose powering up town as a whole. what what Weren't you opposed to me getting zombies for the exact same fucking reason? The whole thing is not indicative of alignment in any case. nice jumping in to share widespread town sentiment without providing any reasoning. like, i dont see anywhere above here in your filter you saying that crossfire is scum or explaining this suspicion. Fluff = not indicative of alignment. ditto the above, way to not actually say anything. "marvs typical posting style" lolwut, there's no way you havent seen at least a couple other games from him, hes ubiquitous. also there's literally no explanation of what nova finds scummy about marvs posts so far. and how the crap was my policy post cut and pasted? except that its the same policy i proposed last time i was town in an mtg game? Zzzzz, 2/3 of Marv's D1 was not following any meta and was just plain lurking. The only game anybody has ever played where Marv lurked, he was scum. Your policy post was just flat-out terrible. It was beside the point, hashed together and useless. Who cares whether it's cut-and-pasted. How is this indicative of alignment anyway? Nova says he'll post reasons from work. He then says work is utter chaos due to unforeseen shit. You then harrass him for reasons. Herpaderp. You could just have waited and if they weren't there tomorrow or so, then jump on it. lolk well this sucks we should wait a few days before we kill him. good thing we have to. also note that this is only an explanation for his recent absence not for his earlier terrible and scummy posting. So in short, the whole case is bogus. Now making a bad case is not necessarily a scumtell, but SnB was under quite a bit of pressure to get some scumhunting done and it looks like they picked their target based on a combination of easy shot on someone who hasn't really contributed much and a bit of OMGUS. They then gathered "evidence" to fit the case, rather than the other way round. Verdict: scum PS. I know I just did Nova's defense for him, but he has already responded and the case was terrible anyway. These are just my own findings from filter diving. Dandel is doing his own analysis (although we played some back and forth in skype). He didn't have time to finish, and can hopefully give you more tomorrow. For now, you have Acro's conclusions: is this a blatantly obvious scum? No. There's some stuff that doesn't scan with them being scum. But after reading the filter from back to front, front to back and inside out, I am still fairly confident that there is something seriously off with both Marv and SnB's play and the most obvious explanation is that they're scum, despite the town tells. /Acro | ||
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I want to know how they are so incredibly schizophrenic, though. It's a great strategy as scum: Xfire is town! No! Xfire is scum! So what's your stance on Xfire? In fact, I am missing general scum reads, the whole filter is confusing in that sense. Lot of waffle, some town reads, but no pressure and no consolidated reads. If you had a 10/10 trample thingy, who would you attack? And why? Go. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 04:46 Stutters695 wrote: CH I'm a bit curious about this. In eight minutes I go from being used as an insult (I'm doing more than he is, which is bad) to you seeing me as one of the towniest players. Why such a sudden switch? You're probably the newbiest newbie in the thread with a meta of lurking. Nobody expects you to do much. I was thus positively surprised by your contributions, this led me to do two things: 1. Taunt Marv and SnB who are two of the most veteran players in the thread, both with quite a track record, that they were being outplayed as a newbie. 2. When this was put to the question, state WHY they were being outplayed by a newbie. | ||
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and /Acro | ||
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The main reason we didn't post this earlier is because we really want Xfire to attack with his shitty little creatures, so he takes the full 9 damage, rather than being able to block and reduce our killing power tomorrow. We had no real need for anybody else's input on this, because both of us came to the conclusion that Xfire is almost certainly scum independently of one another's reads. Xfire is scum and will die by Zombie Apocalypse We went over his filter and noticed a number of things 1. The utter lack of contribution. 2. Defensive and apologetic posts excusing him from contributing. 3. Anger about the length of the thread. This gave us scum vibes, but we needed comparison material. The alternative was that he is just a really bad townie with no clue. However, I have never seen a clearer meta case in my life. In Xfire's town games (like PU or WLIIA) he contributes to scumhunting, is having fun and joking with his fellow players (as Gonzaw rightly noticed). What Gonzaw forgot is to look at Xfire's scum games. There are 2. Mario Mini and Newbie XIII. Dandel's writeup (using just Mario Mini, but the same shit is in Newbie XIII):
Acro adds: the post that we quoted in that list completes the trifecta of Xfire's shit that he does as scum and not as town: wine about the length of the thread. In closing: Xfire is scum and will be ripped apart by zombies ![[image loading]](http://tbivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TheWalkingDead_S2_ep01_Z04.jpg_cmyk.jpg) Zombie token feasting on Xfire's ribs. | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: yeah, you should sheep gonzaw, his case was way better than you guys. sorry bros Have you looked at Xfire's meta? His town and scum play are worlds apart. This is his scum play. | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:57 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: No matter what Appy does with said "analysis" won't matter Most likely he'll post 2 more spreadsheets of them and post more "Class Tells", and no matter what he concludes with said analysis it won't tell you anything about his alignment /G And if that happens we can talk about lending you our zombies. For now, we will eat the scum we're sure of. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:55 Clockwork Hydra wrote: PS. Rootwalla is not attacking, because Xfire might block it on his stupid thing and then it'll die for no reason, whereas next turn it can be 3/3 and awesome. Just realized we derped and could have attacked Aperture with it. We read the case. We are still more convinced with our own. But it makes a pretty sweet case for Appy being the second scum. However, while the presentation is slick, a lot of it is rather circumstantial. I can think of town reasons for igrok doing all that shit (although I agree it is not as likely as the scum explanation). I can think of no town reason for Xfire following his scum meta to a T, while looking nothing at ALL like his town meta. | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Wait wait.....CH, did you attack with your zombies THIS TURN? I thought you couldn't since you "casted" the zombie tokens in the Attack Phase, not the Main Phase? /G ? They have haste regardless of when in this turn they were cast. It's still this turn. | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:20 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, maybe we should figure out how much damage town can deal tomorrow CH can deal 11 I can deal 9 That's 20 damage, we would need 19 more damage to, for instance, kill both Xfire and Aperture? Is this possible? Also, if CH's zombies attacks go through today (which I thought it couldn't), then we need less town KP /G I am somewhat suspecting to only have 3 zombies left tomorrow, unless Xfire doesn't block. So we can do 9 damage. We also only expect to do 4 this turn if Xfire blocks 2 zombies on his creatures. | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:25 Nova_Terra wrote: Im here till main phase, if anyone needs me to answer something, shoot How bout you comment on the 2 cases that are currently dominating the game? | ||
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~smug dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:31 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also come on Clock, your case is not "dominating the game", that's because you have a whole bunch of zombies already attacking while I have a fucking Grim shitty card You talking down on 1 KP? ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness: gonz/Prome - blates town me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol) Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum. Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial. Ta-da! I keep trying, but his other head thinks they're town. dw, I'll convince you you're scum eventually. ~dandel | ||
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We could discard 2 additional cards and create another zombie now, to attack with next turn, giving us 2 more KP to use on turn 2. HOWEVER This means we give up basically any hope of any future power at all, as well as the potential for 8 additional damage we might be able to do that acro hinted at Discuss | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:52 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: is 2KP worth gimping yourself over? You (plural) tell us. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 07:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I just want someone out of Xfire and Aperture to flip tomorrow. I'd prefer Aperture. We should strive to get the necessary town damage to do that. Hopefully Appy/Xfire attack each other so we need even less damage than that. Also, can't you discard those cards tomorrow as well? Is there any hurry? /G I assume we don't get free haste tomorrow(?), so we'd need to cast it now. We can make zombies tomorrow too, we got them recycles going after all | ||
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It was also better. Coincidence? I think not. ~dandel | ||
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real ~dandel | ||
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Rootwallas rock. ~dandel | ||
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Also, why the hell was Aperture all paranoid about storm decks, when he's the only one I can conceivably see running one. Mind's Desire OP as hell. | ||
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We're gonna blast the fucker into the next century. Rest assured, he's guaranteed scum. | ||
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No need to give him more HP than necessary. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:32 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This is hilarious. Everyone tries to kill Crossfire, right? For some reason I'm enjoying this game way more than I should be. Agreed. | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:36 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: So, maybe I'm insane but that was a double scum claim from cross, no? he 1) did two damage to everyone which as I already explained is a scum claim and he 2) didn't read the thread where I said that since he still did it, also a scum claim. (obviously mutually exclusive but either he knew it was anti-town and played it anyways or he didn't read the thread and knew it because he was scum) can anyone, cross included, point out any flaws in this argument? I think we'll be killing him today. p It's actually a quadruple scumclaim. In addition to that shit, he also fucked with our gy instead of exiling a land from his own gy and yelled "I'M SCUM YOLO" in the thread. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:40 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, I concede: Apparently your case was indeed better than mine (since you made scum out himself) GG Clock /G told ya ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:40 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, I concede: Apparently your case was indeed better than mine (since you made scum out himself) GG Clock /G | ||
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Gonzaw can do 9. rock(?) said he can do 2. So we're 8 damage short atm. Did i miss any potential damages? I sure hope i did | ||
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ofc now i start failing at hydraing | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:46 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: We can do 10, we have GL. Although that goblin needs to die first, we don't want him blocking our nice GL You can't. You can either tap him for damage, or tap him to attack. Also, Rock, can you please get rid of that Soul Warden before his scumbuddy plays creatures? | ||
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At this rate he'll die by himself and we dont even need to attack! ~dandel | ||
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Oh, and /Acro | ||
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4 HP left SO CLOSE QUICK FIND SOME MORE MATH FLAWS ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:56 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I propose this: Aperture: Destroy your Braid of Fire with The Abyss and destroy Xfire's Goblin If you do not, then you'll claim scum along Xfire Does this seem like a good idea to enforce? I approve. ~dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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Poster cannot attack with GL AND tap it for damage. I said this already, but people are still working with his 10 damage. | ||
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And marv. It's obviously all marv's fault. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:28 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Anyways, we can go hunting for the remaining scum Who here thinks Aperture isn't the remaining scum? Also, who thinks that CH/me/Rock/Bin could possibly be scum in any way possible (regarding what's happening with Xfire and previous interactions)? Please raise your hand. /G Why do you randomly include yourself in that list? /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:38 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=25#486 Truly a MTG Master. Except I called out Xfire before you did (hopes Clock forgets he did it earlier than me lol) Because I don't want some random guys saying "Why didn't you include yourself in that list!?", or later saying I'm scummy or some shit /G Nope. Sorry. Also marv lied. That's not at all what he "first" did. Not even close. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:48 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yep I'm also convinced the remaining scum is between them 2, like 99%. Between both of them, I'm 85% it's Aperture We can just have both of them stack everything they can on Xfire today Then tomorrow we have both of them attack each other, and we could just finish them off at the same time or something I don't care (just in case) We could finish Aperture off first, but leave Nova with little health, just in case /G I disagree with attacking Nova. We should certainly NOT leave people at low health unless we can be as sure of their scum as with xfire. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I disagree with attacking Nova. We should certainly NOT leave people at low health unless we can be as sure of their scum as with xfire. ~dandel Oh, I just realized that may be ambiguos. better wording: I disagree with attacking Nova, Period. Additionally, we should certainly not leave people at low health, unless we can be as sure of their scum as with xfire. ~dandel | ||
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@Rock: do you have mana for a ninja and equipping the shuriken on it? | ||
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All hail oats! What would we do without the oats! ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:50 BinOnFire wrote: Yes. How does it not make sense? Actually I think CH might be 3rd scummiest. MINIONS. hey Read the thead. | ||
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Gotta think again sorry. Anyways, you know what happened to the last guy that refused to read the thread himself and asked other people for a summary? ~dandel | ||
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That'll show him ~dandel | ||
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Now, we need you to direct a single point of damage to Cross this turn. Do that. ~dandel. | ||
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You're free to do more too | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:59 Acrofales wrote: No. I'll just rely on MG to keep you on a leash. I can't fight this much stupid. It's like... ![[image loading]](http://miggyzaballero.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/stupid.jpg) There comes a point where there's just nothing you can do and you have to give in. /Acro On February 01 2013 11:00 Acrofales wrote: You assumed wrong. We're BOTH dicks! /Acro On February 01 2013 11:17 Acrofales wrote: Dandel is a sweet lovable genius. He just saw Nova's Treetop Village! That means, we only need 1 more damage (assuming Nova plays a land). Worst case scenario: we can death spark Xfire for 1 at the beginning of next upkeep (this turn pumping rootwalla will do more). On February 01 2013 11:19 Acrofales wrote: Actually, that's probably not allowed in this format Aperture better have a lightning bolt or grapeshot or something./Acro On February 01 2013 11:49 Acrofales wrote: Aperture, we got the Storm part. What's your wincon? It doesn't look like Tendrils, so I assumed Grapeshot or Empty the Warren. Want to explain a bit more? | ||
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/Acro | ||
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Okay. Just wanted to know. I don't know how your deck was supposed to work, but I am going to guess that at the moment it just isn't working? I am honestly more worried about Aperture. He knew he'd have to discard, yet claims it was random (despite having 24 hours, and prior knowledge that he'd have 24 hours, to discard). All his antics about certain decks being ticking timebombs just waiting for the right combo pieces, seem to refer to his own deck. Additionally, both iGrok and Greymist know too much about MTG to make a combo deck that is completely defenseless until they throw down their combo. The whole thing smells of funk, especially when we already suspect him of being scum. iGrok: would I find stuff that could help us kill Xfire if I looked at your hand right now? | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:13 Aperture Science wrote: You would indeed, but in order to use it I need someone else to cast a instant or sorcery that does damage. -GreY Well since gonzaw has like three of those, that should not be a problem. ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:19 RockHydra wrote: holy ninja's batman. Why aren't I running you guys in my deck =\ ~Hopeless You could have had us in your deck. just sayin ~dandel | ||
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Suck, do you have a mana enchant left over you can cast on novas forest so he can use his treetop? ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:31 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Uh, I'll get back to you this evening. I've managed to talk to s&b on skype the last two evenings. I don't know what all the cards mean, and the annotations s&b gave me are unsurprisingly at home on skype too :p Just tell me what cards you have and i tell you right now :3 ~dandel | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:48 RockHydra wrote: @CH: Why is your swamp tapped? Shouldn't you have the mana to pump the rootwalla and cast death spark this turn? ~Hopeless Recovering Death Spark from the GY costs (1). On February 01 2013 22:48 RockHydra wrote: Is it just me or did stutters have the ability to cast a werebear in turn 1, but instead discarded it? /zebezt We just assumed that he drew it with Minds Aglow. However, we agree that a Bear deck that can't do anything with 2 mana is a bit surprising: almost all bears are 1G for a 2/2 vanilla creature. Not much point in going there, though, because presumably scum would also want to play their deck optimally. /Acro | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:16 Acrofales wrote: We can cast death spark. It means not pumping the rootwalla (so a balance of 1 less damage from us). Of course, there's also Poster's 3 Chain Lightnings being thrown at Xfire. /Acro On February 01 2013 22:17 Acrofales wrote: You have a fork? If so, we just need 1 more damage. On February 01 2013 22:30 Acrofales wrote: Lets hear from Stutters first. Both of us are boggling our minds at a bear deck that can't do anything with 2 mana, so we're not quite sure what to expect from Stutters' deck. But if the whole premise is cheap green creatures, we expect some serious pump cards too. /Acro On February 01 2013 22:41 Acrofales wrote: The math is a few pages back: Rock can sac a walker to kill the gobbo. That leaves no blockers Rock attacks with a walker and does 2 damage with a Ninja. Acro attacks with everything and pumps Rootwalla: 11 damage. Prom attacks with his 1/1 and casts 3 Chain Lightnings: 10 damage. Ap: forks a Chain Lightning: 3 damage. Total: 26. We miss 1 damage. If Nova, Stutters and Suck together cannot find a way to do 1 damage I will be very disappointed. On February 01 2013 22:57 Acrofales wrote: K, Problem solved. You can cast fertile ground on Nova's forest, pick a colour nova doesn't run if you think he's scum. That way he can make his TF an ape and attack for 3 damage. Xfire is dead. Yay. Wait for Stutters, coz there might be a more efficient way if stutters can just pump a random creature, but at least we know it's doable now. /Acro On February 01 2013 22:58 Acrofales wrote: No. SnB said they had one in their hand to start with and they only discarded one  ![[image loading]](http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/704901/80686348.jpg) | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:14 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Does that mean I can and should be casting something? If so, can someone tell me what I need to write. I totes want to actually play a card, that would be amazing. Plenty of time. We can wait for stutters to report in, and maybe SnB had some grand scheme and this would completely screw your deck over for the rest of the game (rather unlikely, but needs to be take into account). But I'm sure if you ask your fellow head nicely he'll allow you to cast something :D /Acro | ||
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Also, why did you discard at random? :S Anyway, if Stutters can't contribute to the KP, then I think it's best he does whatever he feels will be the best for town. Our only option for killing Xfire is then that Suck enchants Nova's land, so he can turn his Treetop Village into a creature. That puts us at 29 damage, which should be enough to kill him. Just have to wait for SnB to say that it is not completely gimping them. We just have to hope he doesn't have some kind of Phyrexian Mana spell that can fuck us up. I looked through the cards I could find and didn't find a Fog for Phyrexian Mana, so I hope there isn't anything like that. I found something else nasty, but there's nothing we can do about it anyway if he happens to both have it, and cast it. /Acro | ||
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So you need to cast them before. Don't wait too long, don't want any "herpderp we were afk and didn't have time" BS. No need to rush either, though. Yes that is pretty much what we are waiting for. Read through nova's gy, it's pretty apparant what kind of deck he is running. ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 03:17 Crossfire99 wrote: Not going to even defend yourself against my accusation, scum? I see how it is. The best defense is a good offense. I hope you had a good breakfast, coz damn, my zombies are hungry. | ||
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On February 02 2013 03:31 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I will wait until Aperture is here in the thread before casting Chain Lightning x3. As in, he should post "I am here, I'm ready to cast that thingy", and as soon as he posts that, I cast CL. There's no way he can AFK after that. I won't AFK either, unless an alien abducts me or some shit So, I didn't understand the Suck thing with Nova's card shit, can someone explain how ALL damage on Xfire will be dealt? /G Suck puts a mana enchant on nova's forest. Nova has 2 mana to convert his Treetop village into a 3/3 trample sexy beast. Nova attacks with it. Crossfire dies the horrible and painful death he deserves. ~dandel | ||
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You won't be able to play many more today. (well, two tapped ones )You probably are crazy. ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:00 Aperture Science wrote: 2) I contributed what I could by trying to read and post during, which I wasn't supposed to do, ESPECIALLY not at this time of the year. I then got chewed out about it when my boss found out. I found it weird that everyone was jumping on Deathrite as a scumclaim, but not the mass zombies. The ability was the scumclaim. wat? You are aware the Zombies are feasting on red flesh? Or what the hell are you trying to say. 5) Yeah, yeah it is. Like I said I like doing ridiculous combos so until that hits I can't really do much else besides copy things. I've got Fork and Reverberate I think (though this is the only copy in my hand). But this also means if I draw another one we can double a join forces card. Why would you copy a join forces card? what the hell is that supposed to accomplish? it's just a waste of mana, as you could just pay for the join forces instead... ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:06 Aperture Science wrote: Paying mana is a cost, if he doubles it after the mana is paid it would double the effect without having to pay twice the mana Hrmmm, fairly certain you're wrong (although I don't really want to shit up the thread with this). Here's the relevant ruling on Fork: If mana or other costs need to be spent at resolution of the spell, the player of Fork would still be responsible for paying that cost. My understanding is that Minds Aglow has to resolve before the Join Forces triggers, making it happen at resolution. If, for instance, Minds Aglow were countered, people would not have to choose how much to contribute. It doesn't have "as an additional cost to cast Minds Aglow do blablabla", the subsequent mana contribution is part of the resolution, not the casting. Hence this wouldn't work. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:45 Aperture Science wrote: I'll check the join forces rules tonight. going to a release event, theres some L2 judges there Sounds good, but I've already convinced myself. | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:59 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Woot forgot he can sack his goblin+shaman to destroy other creatures... ....so, do we destroy both of them? Aperture, you can sack your Braid of Fire to destroy his Shaman, and Rock can sack a Walker to destroy his Goblin. He can't do anything else if we do that right? /G yeah. Artanis changed to non-land after all. Rock (and whoever else) do it now, before he comes back :O no taking chances. ~dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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We have death spark on hand after all. You're still all fucking morons for reminding him. Jesus. ~dandel | ||
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Although we were hoping our ZI would survive. | ||
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Read above. | ||
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Also, STOP BEING A STUPID IDIOT AND GIVING XFIRE IDEAS. | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:14 Crossfire99 wrote: Didn't read the op, scum? The OP was created to prevent RL play. The stupid card is the EPITOME of RL play. It is stupid. | ||
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Btw, we will probably need 2 turns to recover from the loss of ZI, but if we are lucky, we might draw another one next turn (we will have some help). | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah, it's not like he'll do this as soon as the next Main Phase starts: ##Cast: Swamp ##Tap Badlands for 1 black mana ##Tap Badlands for 1 black mana ##Tap Swamp ##Cast Syphon Soul In fact, I PREDICT that's what he'll do, just because it's the only way things can get worse for us, therefore it will happen So let's think about ways to outdamage that. A kill is not going to happen this turn. So, you guys build up for the next one. Keep in mind, if they kill bin this turn, Syphon "only" does 14 damage / heal, which is really very balanced and totally okay. ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:36 Aperture Science wrote: True, but there is nothing we can do about it until then. I cannot sacrifice a permanent to kill a land even if I wanted to, and thats all that he has on the feild if I am reading the board thread right. I can't do anything more to crossfire with the cards I have. So no, him surviving another turn is not something I can control, and therefore I am focusing on other matters. So you knew he'd go and sac his creatures, if i understand this correctly? Yes, go on. ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:41 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah you guys think about that, I have to cool down a little bit I already said what cards I have in my hand. With 5 lands tomorrow I guess I can play a Zeldon Marauders, which will deal 1 damage. Then I play Reckless Abandon (sacrifice Zeldon Marauder), and deal 4 damage. Then I can play Unearth, bring back Zeldon Marauder, and do 1 more damage. If I have the mana, I can tap Grim Lavamancer and do 2 damage. I need 5 mana for all of that, which I'll have because of the lands I got from Bin's land (I think, I also have a Mountain in my hand) So I can do 8 damage next turn (can't attack with anything), and have GL and Zeldon Marauders in play. That's not taking into account which card I draw though (it may be Ball Lightning which may be sweet) /G It should be 9, right? Since Keldon marauders also do damage when they leave play. That's a pretty good start. We'll have (at least) 3 Zombies, doing 6 damage. Rock gets a 2dmg ninja out this turn, and might be able to cast another, doing at least 2 damage, maybe more (rock, input please). If stutters plays a BEAR, he'll be able to do 2 damage. Nova can at least attack with his 3/3 land again. which already gets us up to 22 damage minimum. Maybe more. Any other potential? Remember, we're talking NEXT turn now. Also, suck and nova should still combo for a treetop village attack this turn, I think. Damage is damage. ~dandel | ||
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And yes, I am working off the assumption that scum didn't shoot themselves in the face for 8 damage. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:56 RockHydra wrote: Depending on available blockers, I have an ink-eyes I can ninjutsu next turn: 5 damage ~Hopeless So total of 7. This ninja deck is going places! | ||
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On February 02 2013 06:58 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: srsly? he could have done all that stuff during the attack phase, after we had all committed to a plan that wouldn't work anyways like, you really want to base your game play on the hope that both he and his scum buddy are terrible at mtg and also don't pay attention to the game at all? Yes it's a far better solution to yell at scum what they are supposed to do from the rooftops. Repeatedly. You're right! Such a genius! ~dandel | ||
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Even if Cross does another soul syphon. So.... GG ~dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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Go stutters! The entire game* hangs on your ability to make a bear! *slight exaggeration ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 07:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Oh and for that, Stutters should make bear now. Go stutters! The entire game* hangs on your ability to make a bear! *slight exaggeration ~dandel Once again, I disagree with my hydra head. I think Stutters should do what he wants. If he thinks a 2/2 bear helps town, then great. If something else, great too: he's the only one who knows his deck and how it can contribute. Word of caution, though: I'm not sure a howling mine is a good idea, because we have to consider the serious situation where Aperture is scum and will "go off" tomorrow and deck us all, play an infinite number of Eldrazi or do something else fucked up. The presence of Epic Experiment AND Mind's Desire in his GY point towards a pretty funky combo where he just dumps down a giant list of instants and sorceries which ends in 200 damage to everybody else in the game. "I win". Dandel was saying we should blow up his braids. I don't quite see what 2 red mana in his upkeep can do (can only play instants, not sorceries), but it's something to keep under consideration. I WOULD like Aperture to tell us how his deck is supposed to work and what he needs to "go off", so we can estimate the threat he likely poses. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 09:11 gonzaw wrote: I think it might be a good idea to have Aperture just out his whole hand and deck to us lol. I don't really want to see him play an "anti-town" card later out of nowhere that can fuck us up, without us knowing first or him lying about it and thus confirming himself as scum. I know I kind of tried to "force" this the previous game with Grey...and he just straight up refused...and then he was misslynched....and then town lost the game; but it might be a good idea to enforce it today Answer the question about what his deck is about would be a good way too. [hr Anyways Aperture, the only other hydra I could see as scum (which I don't actually do) is Rock. So.....either convince us why the fuck there'd be 2 "non-hydra non-vets" scum in this game (which we already stated had less than 9% chance of happening, hell I'd even say less than 5% considering the hydra/vet balance thing) [also actually making a good case against Stutters/Nova and being very convincing about it], or start making a convincing case against Rock, which should be very convincing. Answering questions and giving a crap about whether town can kill a confirmed scum or not would be a good start as well. /G While I don't necessarily disagree with you on Aperture, you are taking the 8.33% thing for a hydra being scum ENTIRELY out of context. Pick ANY 3 players AT RANDOM. The chance that the 2 scummers are in there, is 8.33%. Ergo, you cannot use statistics as an argument for why a Hydra is scum, just as you'd be laughed at for claiming it is statistically unlikely that the 2 scum are in the top 3 of the signup list. Meta-analysis on game balance is an entirely different kettle of fish, however. /Acro | ||
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For instance, I agree with you that point 31 could really do with some explanation from Stutters, so you get brownie points for finding it. However, you give him +8 scum points for that. The number seems entirely arbitrary. You then find something, I'd consider a town point at point 33, but give him -1 scum points for that. The points seem entirely arbitrary, so the whole PBPA "system" is not actually any more systematic than when I quote shit and say why it's scummy. So while the PBPA points out some stuff in Stutters' filter that I think warrants a closer look at Stutters, the formulaic system means that I can not actually get a whiff of your OWN alignment from it, which is one of the main things I use people making cases FOR. We both agreed that we don't think you'd do this any differently as scum or as town. When I pointed out that for number 36, Greymist could just have labeled it "soft-defending scum" and given him + points, Dandel replied that throwing in a couple of -1s here and there doesn't really matter when you throw +2s and +8s the other way. If you want to cook the books, this is the perfect way of doing it. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 10:59 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I will give the point about using RNG though. I think Artanis could have made that clearer at some point, but well /G Why should he make that clear? We're supposed to be catching scum, not metagaming the host. This goes for almost all mafia games here: do it, but do it at your own peril. | ||
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Gonzaw got my point pretty much. I also work with points on my scumometer and townometer. However, on mine you can either score a point for a post, an overall stance or anything I feel at the time is scummy, respectively townie. Generally, those points are only really used as a summary for when I need a quick opinion and don't mean jack shit to anybody (not even me when I go through stuff in detail). I am therefore rather interested in HOW you quantify scummy shit. Please explain to me how X is worth 8 points, Y is worth -1 and Z is worth 3. Specifically I am interested in how the overall summary means anything at all. If I were to post my current scum and townometer of Suck, it'd have more scumpoints. However, I have revised my earlier thoughts and think there's a decent chance they're town. That's because shit like scum points for early posts are "worth less" when I end up evaluating them now. As you say, it's all subjective and thus you posting the analysis kinda means nothing. The format makes it particularly hard to make sense of whether you are focusing on bullshit reasons that are not indicative of alignment or points that I think might be. Anyway, my scumhunting seems to be completely different from yours overall, because I tend to be more interested in reactions to pressure and overall motivation than PBPA, unless PBPA brings me something fantastic. If I don't make sense, blame beer. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 23:04 Hopeless1der wrote:  I am totally okay with you doing something too. Who is Xfire's partner in crime and why? /Acro | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [preamble] + Here is my take on the matter. We have established that your deck runs Storm, and probably a rather large amount of red mana acceleration in order to set off some unknown combo. Presumably your combo is capable of either outright killing everybody, or at least killing a number of people, otherwise your deck is useless and neither of you seem like the type of player to make a useless deck. All combo decks tend to have 1 thing in common: they play a large amount of library manipulation stuff, either in the form of extra draw or in the form of tutors (handily calling Intuition and its clones tutors here) and usually both. Minds Aglow sounds like the bees fucking knees for a combo deck. So why is Minds Aglow bad for scum iGrok? Because card advantage. According to iGrok's own words, his deck has a slow mana base and will supposedly take a long time before it can go off. In that time, town can use the massive card advantage gained from Minds Aglow to ramp up their own decks. A scum iGrok is thus best served by town being stalled as much as possible. In the meantime, the scum beast can take out serious threats, while he gets the main combo pieces online through other means than Minds Aglow. So, with the preamble out of the way where we establish that Minds Aglow is good for you, we go to your actions in the game: On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote: So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome. Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. Except, iGrok is apparently a rather fervent MTG player and knows the value of shit like card advantage and should immediately recognize how with 7 townies and 2 scummers, Minds Aglow leads to insane card advantage for town. It also cannot be explained as being bad from his own deck's perspective (see preamble). So... iGrok, why did you say Minds Aglow looks completely useless, when, it quite obviously isn't? 2 posts later, he has a new reason for why Minds Aglow is bad. Note, it is not useless now, it is now scary: On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote: I'd be scumhunting. I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?) This is elaborated on a bit later (skipping the first elaboration, because the second one is a direct answer to my doubts about it at the time): + Show Spoiler [explanation 1] + On January 29 2013 10:41 Aperture Science wrote: I'm not being negative, I'm pointing out rather basic fatal flaws in people's thinking. There's some new players here, not everyone played Coldsnap. You're just wrong. There's a deck that could entirely mill out 2, maybe 3 players T2 or 3 if we each draw 18 cards. Brain Freeze + Mana-Instants/Phyrexian Mana cards. You all put down 10 lands turn 2, play 5 spells each, and he mills 200 cards. which kills 7 players. You want to do that? End the game on turn 2? I thought about playing it but I'd rather play mine because its more fun, hence my whole "lets play fun decks" campaign. Read what I said above. But even if you go ahead and do cast voyage. Who the hell is running 10 BASIC lands when they can pull from ALL the Duals, Shocks, Fetches, Filters, Taps, and Checks? You realize its BASIC LANDS ONLY right? (That last part isn't for you, its for everyone else). You assuming you've got MTG figured out rubs me the wrong way. But that doesn't mean I think you're scum. Odds are you're town, you just didn't think it through. You've gotta realize that in a game of no counters and where everyone shares a turn, busting out 10 lands for everyone is just asking for a storm deck to kill us all. + Show Spoiler [explanation 2] + On January 30 2013 00:43 Aperture Science wrote: What I'm advocating (before anyone says "waaah all you ever do is tell us not to play things") is not to play things that could help scum. Lets see what we already know: Someone can have 10+ Zombies out T1 if you play Mind's Aglow, and can swing with them T2, killing someone. At least one person is running Fatties. Honestly I'd be happier with Fatties than a dozen Zombies. @Zeb, Artanis might not have thought that someone would play mind's aglow for 10 T1. I know he's okay with being able to combo out one player by turn 2, which is what cheerio storm does - unless it draws a dozen extra cards, then it combos everyone. Note the entirely different mindsets between iGrok and us. iGrok knows he runs a storm combo himself, yet uses the idea of Storm's presence to try to scare people, without disclosing ANY information abut his deck. Now either drawing lots of cards is good for a Storm combo deck and we should be scared, in which case iGrok should be saying "if you give me lots of cards, I will be able to combo and go off sooner", OR drawing cards is not good for a Storm deck, in which case we have no reason to be scared. Instead iGrok fear mongers with the idea of Storm without ever saying that he himself will BE that nasty player who will combo us all to death. Now lets compare that to the two townies who know Minds Aglow will do awesome shit for them: Bin. Bin needs lots of basic lands and he knows that the best way of getting them into play fast is by casting a big Minds Aglow and then a big Collective Voyage. While he doesn't initially specify what he will do with all that land, it was to be expected that it'd result in something big and nasty (I was expecting fatties, but Drain Life works okay). CH: we know we're running ZI. We are frank and open with the fact that Minds Aglow will give us a giant boost and after a bit of deliberating disclose exactly how a Minds Aglow will make our deck big and scary. In both cases, all the information is laid out on the table, allowing the OTHER players to decide for themselves whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. iGrok, in contrast, deliberately withheld this information in favour of fearmongering. So, I have explained the scum motivation for this quite clearly. There are some things, however, in AS' playstyle that make me wonder. I really want AS to explain his behaviour. Both in response to Minds Aglow and in response to Poster's original case. /Acro + Show Spoiler [Dandel's blessing] + [13:55:26] Acro: poasted [14:01:56] Acro: am i making a big deal out of a tiny issue? [14:02:02] Acro: or does what i say make sense? [14:03:19] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: it's fine imo [14:03:24] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: good points and all [14:03:33] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: and i'd really like them to respond to it [14:03:41] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: so I give it my blessing | ||
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On February 03 2013 01:57 Aperture Science wrote: Stutters already knows what I'm about to accuse him of, so his defense above should be completely ignored. Why are you telling us to ignore his defense? You afraid we might disagree with you? /Acro | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 09:14 Stutters695 wrote: Agreed with this actually. Why would you give me a free pass for a day? From your position I wouldn't consider me town yet. Why would you give me a free pass instead of questioning me to force more out of me. If this was anybody who had actually played a scum game before, I might agree with you, but Stutters has rolled town in all 6 of his prior games (4 of which were newbie). If there was the possibility that Marv was in the scumQT with Stutters, I might ALSO agree with you that he was being heavily coached and this means nothing, but barring a complete mindfuck that is impossible. Stutters is blatantly drawing attention to himself with this post. He is walking up to one of the towniest townies in the game, who, as scum he knows is 100% town and doesn't have the lingering doubts of other townies that Gonzaw might just be faking it all. He then says "POKE, pay attention to me!" for no fucking reason at all. There are very few scum who feel comfortable drawing attention to themselves and they are invariably known as some of the best scum players on the forum. Stutters is either an absolute natural at playing scum, or he is town. PS. He doesn't just do it that once either. He pokes you too for no reason except to get your reaction... and later pokes me for, in his own mind, letting him off the hook when I had said I wouldn't do that. Now he is either a fucking mastermind scum in his very first game as scum ever, or he is a townie towner. /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 02:28 Aperture Science wrote: No smartass, but he's had almost a full day to prepare a defense. So what? You've had 2 full days to prepare a defense against Poster's case, yet haven't come up with anything that resemples a plausible town explanation for your play. I don't ignore posts because the poster had more time to make them. I judge them based on their content. /Acro | ||
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Dandel thinks you're town for some reason. Mind telling me why he thinks that (he's afk and I can't ask him)? /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 03:26 Stutters695 wrote: Artanis(sp?) did some balancing to the deck but you know pretty much what's in it. He added a mox emerald and a couple other things (I'd have to check my PMs) but where are you getting five mana from? I have three. If I was at five mana I would be rolling, but when my initial pulls were all three mana plus, I haven't had a lot of options. I have played the deck poorly but I've said what's in my hand of value. What possible benefit would I get from being so weak in a scum position? What cards do I possibly have that once XFire dies would let me win 1v8 off of my "deck lies?" How is that point even remotely scummy (if I was lying, which you should know isn't true). Stutters: Type this into the board thread: ##Activate New Frontiers: search for Forest x2 If you prefer, you can search for swamps or some other basic land. /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 03:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: There's a thing about Xfire that strikes me as odd though. I'm discussing it with Prome first, but I want to see if you guys figure it out. Plus another thing interesting about him and his scumbuddy most likely /G If you are talking about the double wifom burger, I disagree with your conclusions. In fact, I disagree with any conclusions unless it is "ignore the shit out of those posts". | ||
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Any assumption further than that is crazy tinfoil-hat talk. Prome, I would like you to outline why you think the hopeless hydra is town. As I already noted on day 1 (sorry about that btw), you're probably the most familiar with hopeless in here. So I want to hear your thoughts. ~dandel | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:32 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well Dan, I need some things to play out before I update my read on the HopelessHydra. I have some thoughts about this recent Zeb case which I find...interesting. I'm sure you see what I see. Gonzaw and I are talking it through now. Updates to follow. I usually use my reads to get reads on other people, I thought you knew that, I knew what I thought of Hope and had no idea about marv at the time. p Yeah I shouldn't have posted what I posted back then and given marv a stupid excuse to refuse doing a read. I realized that like 10 seconds after I posted it. But what's done is done. Well no real rush I guess, but do share your immense wisdom at least by day 3. ~dandel | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:38 RockHydra wrote: Well if it was bulletproof, why did Suck and DFTP disagree? I agree though that any deductions based on this action are not very strong. /zebezt lack of thinking drugs being lazy and not actually checking the games we cited for his meta letting a mentally challenged baboon do their posting for them .... There's a million possible reasons, and I can't conceivably know which one applies to whom. ~dandel | ||
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On February 03 2013 08:06 RockHydra wrote: Ok.. new piece of information I wanted to share Check out which people did not use New Frontier CH (has no basic lands) Stutters and xfire wouldnt any decent scumbuddy have warned xfire to search for 2 lands to sac to destroy 2 more permanents? stutters was the only one besides xfire that didnt notice the new frontier. I dont think this coincedence Read xfire's filter. He says, quite early, that he's not running basics. Also useless points, etcetc. sutters, that ain't gonna work, New frontiers gives you lands tapped. ~dandel | ||
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Acro is afk, so I can rush things without any abandon!!! Take that acro! ~dandel | ||
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/acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:38 RockHydra wrote: Well if it was bulletproof, why did Suck and DFTP disagree? I agree though that any deductions based on this action are not very strong. /zebezt 1, they didn't 2. they're idiots. Yup, that covers everything | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:49 RockHydra wrote: lol damn baboons! we're glad you agree instead of running random intereference | ||
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On February 03 2013 07:05 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: hi guys. I'm just reading through some thread at the moment before i do some filtering. I would probably have agreed with this wholeheartedly a couple of weeks ago, but just recently Xatalos, as mafia, in Dessert Mafia did a similar thing. He constantly drew attention to himself. Xatalos is pretty new himself (or, perhaps has played 1 game more or something) and while I respect and like him (we've shared many PMs in the past), he's not yet a mafia savant or anything. Yet he did the same. So I don't think it's as cast-iron as you make it sound here. anyway, I'm not saying this to shed suspicion on stutters, because i've not even properly filtered him yet, but it's maybe not quite as strong a heuristic as you think. -marvelbabe I proably know Xata better than you do. Xata != Stutters. Not in a billion years. 1. In Xata's first game as scum he could borrwo from awesome sauce modkll worthy shit like my asha clame. 2. In Dessert Xata's scumbuddy wasn't as wuseless as xfire. I think I got most of that right. Either way, I am right. | ||
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On February 03 2013 08:11 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Anyways, guess who im attacking with my cute zombies. Acro is afk, so I can rush things without any abandon!!! Take that acro! ~dandel | ||
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Also, you said you'd love to run mana barbs, but weren't allowed to, yet now claim you have mana barb. Also, if you play mana barbs 4 zombies will say hello. They might say more, but probably they'll be feasting on your brane. /acro | ||
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Why you running mana barbs even though you claimed artanis didn't allow it? Together with your fearmongering on Storm decks, that's some real contradictions. If I made a google spreadsheet, I'd give +12 scumeter to the storm thing and +9 scumeter to the mana barbs thing. Throw in some random +1 and +2 at a bunch of your posts, and you're already up to high grade B super-suspicion. Just to put it into terms you understand. ~dandel | ||
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On February 03 2013 22:04 RockHydra wrote: oh snap. Aperture caught in a lie. Pretty damning. If you combine that with his decklist he seems too dangerous to not lynch next. Still wanna read over his filter again though, but I suppose we have time for that. /zebezt The decklist he gave doesn't actually sound that dangerous imo. At the very least, not until he has 9+ mana up. Which might mean he has something else "dangerous" in his deck he didn't tell about, or he just wants to cast this Scrambleverse stuff and go full RNG. Which I wouldn't have a problem with, since everything will be 6x more likely to hit town. So statistically, it'd be a REALLY bad move for scum, and really good for town. Tho a really dangerous thing (potentially) was Acidic Ground, but bin only got a new frontiers off, so he can't just oneshot everything with it either. I feel like, if Aperture is scum, he'd probably be more happy to go through the deck with MA, let everyone get a million basics next turn, and then just instagib half of town. Cross and himself both not running (many) basics themself, and Cross running this global dmg scum deck of his, it would basically (no pun intended) be an awesome "we win nao" move. And AT LEAST get people into one-shot range of the mafia beast. Add in one of those copy spells... Now now, it's possible he just didn't think about it and stuff, so I'mma not get too deep into those explanations. Just some food for thought. I'll have to ask Acro on what else that deck's supposed to do, though. Mb I missed something big. (Once he's lucid again, that is) It sounds way2complicated for me. ~dandel | ||
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I also don't understand why half the cards that are in there are included as they don't seem to be needed for the combo, or useful in setting it up. Also, what's the point of Braids, when all the expensive spells are enchantments or sorceries (and I guess a Hamletback Goliath, but I don't know why that's there either). /Acro | ||
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On February 04 2013 01:11 BinOnFire wrote: Hey guys, I AM EXTREMELY SORRY for being fucking useless. And I have no idea how I can contribute. /Oats Who's the 2nd scum? | ||
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Huehue. ~actually Acro, tho paraphrased by dandel | ||
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On February 04 2013 04:50 Acrofales wrote: Fine, have an update of our read on Aperture. My brain is still not really working, but luckily most of these thoughts are from yesterday. Firstly, we're giving him the benefit of the doubt and believing that his temper tantrum was, in fact, a temper tantrum. However, he is still probable scum. 1. His cases are bad and on what we believe to be townies. While being wrong is not necessarily a scum tell, Grokmist has done absolutely nothing except for making these two cases. He doesn't share his reads. 2. He is seemingly inconsistent when it comes to magic (minds aglow, see yesterday's post) and refuses to explain. He also refuses to disclose his deck, hand or anything magic related. While not necessarily a scum tell, it is definitely not behaviour that makes him look townie. 3. Yells at people for making the thread unreadable (too large), then shits up the thread with pointless crap about non-game related stuff. Not sure this is a scumtell, but it pissed me off. Shitting up the thread serves scum's purpose and iGrok has done it twice now. However, he was completely obvious about it and I'm not sure scum have the balls for that. Am I very sure he's scum? No. None of it's conclusive and I'm not done looking at the rest yet (primarily Nova, Rock and Suck). More tomorrow. /Acro My hydra heads are so awesome that they make identities of their own. This one is me! | ||
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That should help. ~dandel | ||
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Artanis, why do you blatantly favour scum? | ||
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Depending on the answers, we suggest that, instead of having to tap 5 permanents each, nobody taps anything to the board card and we all take the piddly damage dealt. | ||
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~dandel | ||
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I will consider it a scum claim if you tap a permanent for the global card. If you claim you didn't read this and just did whatever, I will consider it a scum claim anyway. /Acro | ||
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Pretty sure that's the case. ~dandel | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On February 04 2013 09:44 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Oh you may be right Well Aperture, better get a creature out soon. Nope, my fellow Hydra head is wrong. Fork rulings are strange like that, but Reckless Abandon's text reads "as an additional cost". Sacrificing the creature is thus part of the casting cost, which does not need to be payed again. AS can fork the crap out of that. Hur hur hur. Also, here's the math on Xfire: Wooded Foothills: 1 damage Zombie x4: 8 damage Soul Syphon: 16 life Chain Lightning x 3: 9 damage Reverberate on CL: 3 damage Death Spark: 1 damage Zombie x 3: 6 damage Ninja: 2 damage Lavamancer: 1 damage Total: 5 life remaining As far as I can see in the board thread nothing else happened to him /Acro | ||
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Yay, we're not playing with the retarded new rules that removed that. Also, that means he should be at 14, right? 2 dmg from siphon 1 dmg from lavamancer 1 mana burn t2 2 mana burn t3 | ||
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Plan: blast Xfire down to 0 life. If he doesn't die, we attack him with enough creatures to kill him in the attack phase. | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I forgot manaburn doesn't exist anymore, my bad. No mana burn. Also, Braid of Fire mana can be used during the Main Phase. What? How the hell? Is he allowed to use the mana to cast sorceries or permanents? Is he allowed to use it to cast instants that interact with sorceries or permanents played that turn? If so, you just ninja-improved the shit out of a card without telling us. Also, Appy, why did you not tell us? In fact, why did you purposefully withhold that information last turn when you tapped more lands than you needed to cast Reverberate? | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Of course my concerns about this is because we CAN deal A LOT of damage to him, not just 5. But we would ONLY deal 5 damage to him if it kills him. So if he has the "Gain 1 life" card, and uses it now, then we can kill him with 1 more damage this Main Phase But if he waits until the very last moment and ninja-casts, then we can't, and thus he'll survive longer when he shouldn't /G But you still have 3 mana open after you do this, right? So you can still Ball Lightning it up if shenannies happen? | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:20 GreYMisT wrote: Check, I only tapped one mountain. I am concerned about cross, but there is literally nothing more I can do than fork something Sorry, I just assumed that you tapped 2 due to getting mana burned. I guess the mana burn reason for you taking damage was therefore also wrong? Still, you never told anybody. Nor corrected wrong assumptions about its working in this game: On February 02 2013 07:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Once again, I disagree with my hydra head. I think Stutters should do what he wants. If he thinks a 2/2 bear helps town, then great. If something else, great too: he's the only one who knows his deck and how it can contribute. Word of caution, though: I'm not sure a howling mine is a good idea, because we have to consider the serious situation where Aperture is scum and will "go off" tomorrow and deck us all, play an infinite number of Eldrazi or do something else fucked up. The presence of Epic Experiment AND Mind's Desire in his GY point towards a pretty funky combo where he just dumps down a giant list of instants and sorceries which ends in 200 damage to everybody else in the game. "I win". Dandel was saying we should blow up his braids. I don't quite see what 2 red mana in his upkeep can do (can only play instants, not sorceries), but it's something to keep under consideration. I WOULD like Aperture to tell us how his deck is supposed to work and what he needs to "go off", so we can estimate the threat he likely poses. /Acro On February 04 2013 01:21 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I don't understand the deck either. But my brain isn't working and the deck looks complicated. Eye of the Storm, Hive Mind and Niv-Mizzet together seem like the threat, but there doesn't actually seem to be an effective finisher. I also don't understand why half the cards that are in there are included as they don't seem to be needed for the combo, or useful in setting it up. Also, what's the point of Braids, when all the expensive spells are enchantments or sorceries (and I guess a Hamletback Goliath, but I don't know why that's there either). /Acro | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:33 iGrok wrote: Acro you realize that my posted decklist was totally unrelated to this game now right? Yes, but I still posted that Braid gives mana in the upkeep, which you conveniently ignored. Twice. Why? Was it convenient for you to appear weaker than you are? | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:43 iGrok wrote: Where did you post that? I don't remember seeing it I just quoted the damn posts like 10 minutes ago... | ||
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Terrible damage will be dealt this turn and the target is one of these 3. | ||
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On February 04 2013 10:52 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I just quoted the damn posts like 10 minutes ago... To be fair, that's very hard to find due to all the fluff that was posted! ~dandel | ||
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Aperture Science: BRAAAAAINS Suck: BRAAAINS Nova: BRAAAINS Rock: BRAINS are a possible option, pending further intel stutters: No brains. postal: No brains. /all heads | ||
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~dandel | ||
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On February 04 2013 08:38 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Cool. We're 8 players left. We can't count on Xfire cooperating. Other than that: if nobody taps to the permanent we all take 1 damage (10/7 < 1.5 and is thus rounded down). I will consider it a scum claim if you tap a permanent for the global card. If you claim you didn't read this and just did whatever, I will consider it a scum claim anyway. /Acro | ||
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Depending on our choice, I suspect you might not want to. But I appreciate your offer of cooperation and would not mind dealing even more terrible damage, generally. ~dandel | ||
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However, there is no reason not to blast Xfire with a healthy dose of 5 damage right now. Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. Add this to the reasons he's scum: he is fairly active this game. Ask him a question about the mtg side of things and he will pop in and join the discussion. Ask him about mafia and he says nothing. He doesn't want to tell anybody about his reads and the two cases he made so far are both bad: one is on a confirmed town, the other on what looks to me to be very likely town. He is not pushing his cases or making new ones. In SSB I remember iGrok being very adamant about pushing his scum reads (and pushing his plan). They were completely wrong, but he was actively pushing them and appeared invested in the thread. This game iGrok's main contributions are that any time the thread goes seriously south, he's in the middle of it. Greymist I have nothing on. He came back from holiday and has, insofar as I can see, done nothing, except for his half of the stutters analysis. Why not advising Xfire doesn't make him town: if I were scum I would advise Xfire to blow shit up at the end of the attack phase (before damage resolution of course). This has 2 advantages: the first is that town might spend extra resources in killing you and the second is that you know exactly how much damage you need to prevent. The disadvantage is that town might blow up your creatures before you can blow shit up, meaning you might need to sac more lands. Why Suck is scum You know what Suck's contribution to scumhunting has been this game? He has made a bad case against Nova. The combined forces of marv and snb have managed to do 1 thing: find a load of shit that is not indicative of alignment when looking at Nova. Marv has gone into full-on lurker mode. He is not pressuring anybody, despite actually being present for a lot of the game. SnB has done nothing. Even when absent, SnB as town phoneposts to say "dudes, I'm in England, don't lynch me because I don't have internet" and then gives a quick list of reads. As mafia, he straight up lurks (although he seems to have improved in WLIIA). Evidence: SSM and Caller - Remove Incognito. Now, would scum SnB have posted the plan for Xfire in the thread? Well, he told us: never assume your opponent is too stupid to not recognize the board possibilities. In this case a scum SnB expects town to already know what needed doing (blow up Xfire's shit and then just hope for the best). He didn't want to be forced to contribute to town by casting an enchant on Nova's land and thus told town the plan wouldn't work. This allowed him to follow his own plan and cast his own useful stuff. He also scored townie points for being the herald and noticing that shit. Marv flip flops on Xfire. He spends quite a bit of his time soft-defending Xfire. + Show Spoiler [Marv and Xfire] + Original stance on Xfire is to agree with the suspicions (my early D1 case and the followups). He doesn't add anything new, but says Xfire is "suspicious". Now, the rest: On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. At the time I just skipped over this post, and read it as being wrong. Now that we know xfire is scum, Marv is going on record here saying that xfire might be scum, but probably just wait to lynch him. Classic scum behaviour: wants the town credit when his mafia buddy flips, but wants to stall the lynch as long as possible. On January 31 2013 05:42 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Yeah, but here it's... Suck is scummy, maybe for this reason maybe not, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... In the last game he didn't have to promise future content, he was happy just to say "yeah kill these dudes". Here he feels the need to justify his absence and his read with future promises. My read on Stutters (slightly town) remains unchanged, and Crossfire seems less scummy for it. At least he made the effort to defend himself and make a case on someone, even though some of it was wrong, some of it was correct too - marvelbabe Huh? What does Stutters being town have to do with Xfire being town? Why randomly include the scumbuddy in this town read? On January 31 2013 06:18 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I take it from your attitude that you think Crossfire is 'surely' scum then, gonzaw? Town explanation: please clarify your stance. Scum explanation: mr. town leader, is it time to bus my scumbuddy? Would marv want that confirmation to make the decision? Finally something meta can help with. In Hero, Marv's stance on Adam is really non-committal. There's the "might be scum, but lets wait and see"... but then Palmar comes in, says Adam is scum and asks why Marv isn't voting for him. 2 pages later, he is (nothing of consequence happened in those 2 pages). Scum Marv does not just willy nilly bus his buddies, he needs to be sure he'll get town cred for doing so. On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness: gonz/Prome - blates town me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol) Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum. Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial. Ta-da! Heading rather fast towards giving Xfire a town read AFTER the meta case. Is Marv really bad enough to not realize that the metas match 100%? On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I presume you are referring to the Aperture case and the Nova burgler case, yes? Discrediting the case on Xfire. Shortly after that Xfire claimed scum. TLDR No scumhunting. Stand-offish about Xfire. Fitting SnB's scum meta. There are still some things that I think point to a town Suck, but honestly, if we can kill both Aperture and Suck, I am 95% sure we'll hit at least 1 scum. A quick blurb on why you should get your heads out of your asses regarding the CW-Xfire mutual bus thing. Xfire fucked up his sacrifice-defense. He screwed it up by taking out my Rootwalla and enchantment, instead of my Rootwalla and a Zombie. He took out what was probably the strongest card on the board FOR NO GOOD REASON (at least from a spot defense point of view). He was then forced to gimp himself even further to actually take out a zombie. This went WAY overboard on what was necessary to make it look like a two-way-bus and went straight into "I am doing as much damage as I possibly can to your board". I mean, Dandel and I talked it over in Skype and we reckoned a two-way-bus would have been a hilarious stunt, but it didn't actually happen. What happened was, we found scum and attacked him. Then he went nuts, claimed scum and fucked up the townie with the dangerous enchant. /Acro | ||
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On February 04 2013 21:38 RockHydra wrote: I had noticed the fact that he killed your enchantment too. Noticed it gave you some town cred. But now that you brag about it yourself that towncred is gone again. Because it might just be that you told him to kill the enchantment to give you some extra town points. /zebezt Convenient excuse to drop a "townread" you never had anyways. Want to keep your options open, huh? ~dandel | ||
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The only reason I felt it needed to be brought to your attention is because idiots keep bringing it up as if they might be seriously entertaining the idea. Like... if you want to call me scum, go through my filter and make a case. Otherwise, go bugger a goat. /Acro | ||
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Either way, he lurks far more as scum than as town and he is lurking this game. Also, I am not calling both you and Aperture scum. I am calling one of you scum and can't be arsed to figure out which one. That's good enough if we can kill 2 people (assuming we can). /Acro | ||
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On February 04 2013 22:42 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I might deal damage to you just for being silly If you're town, you should find scum and deal damage to him instead. Unless you're 100% confident Aperture is scum, in which case, go ahead. | ||
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On February 04 2013 23:30 Acrofales wrote: Your hydra head disagrees. He is still pissed off at me for HRM, where the whole last day was done for giggles. So you think Aperture is scum. But if we can kill 2 people, how do we maximize the chance of killing the scum? Assuming you don't have a 100% scumread on Aperture, of course. If you do, I'd like to know what makes you so certain. This hydra fail never happened. | ||
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Clockwork: minimum of 12. Poster: 11 Rock: 7 Stutters: 3 Nova: 4? Suck: 0 AS: 0 Total: 37. This is enough to kill AS and Suck assuming there is no life-gaining and Xfire doesn't fuck us over. Assuming SnB is a douche and uses his enchantress thingy to block, there is a total of 35 damage dealt. This is still enough to kill both. General mtg advice: @Stutters: by playing Gaea's Anthem and a bear now, you not only get +1 damage this turn, but +2 next turn. This game has probably ended by then. Also, you have no land at all in your hand? @Rock: you can attack anybody you like with your Phyrexian thingy, so attack us: we won't block it. Then ninja in your giant beasty to do 5 damage to the target you actually want to kill. @Nova: your creature pumping thing is an instant and can be cast in the attack phase. Phrase it conditionally to pump 2 creatures that are attacking and are not blocked. | ||
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On February 05 2013 00:08 Aperture Science wrote: Just a quick question, weren't we going to kill Crossfire today before attack phase by us forking a bolt or something? What happened to that We were. If Poster is around, you should get on with that. | ||
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On February 05 2013 00:19 RockHydra wrote: Unfortunately this is not how ninjitsu works. It has to attack the same target as the original creature. /zebezt You are right. I just read the card and assumed. The comprehensive rules clarify that. It's kinda lame. Well, you can always attack Aperture who seems to be playing creatureless. | ||
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On February 05 2013 00:14 Nova_Terra wrote: How do i do that? I'm still magic newbie. can you give me an example? Lets say I attack Suck with 4 zombies. You can then do the following (in the attack phase): ##tap lands ##cast Blades of Veling Vel after blockers are declared, but before damage goes on the stack (time 3 in OP). Target: 2 unblocked zombie tokens. Of course, if there are no unblocked zombies, you might have to do something different, but for now that looks unlikely. You also don't have to target my zombies, but can target any other unblocked creature if you disagree with who my zombies attack. | ||
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On February 05 2013 01:27 RockHydra wrote: It's interesting how in clockwork-town suddenly everybody is on board with attacking Suck. There might be interest in killing aperture, but I'm not sure about your other target. /zebezt You don't have to be. We are almost certainly rampaging all over his face with zombies. I think he is more likely scum than Nova, who would be my 3rd potential scummer. If people don't want to kill Suck and other people don't want to kill Nova, then we can have everybody do damage to Aperture and the rest is a free choice. Yes, this might bring people within mafia beast range without killing them. As long as that isn't us, we are okay with that This forces people to make a hard choice rather than just sheeping what town leaders tell them to do makes and might be a more informative use of KP (at least it forces people to say WHY they are attacking than just being "Gonzaw told me to"), although it gives us 1 less flip. How about this: Poster does 5 damage to Aperture, 1 to Xfire and attacks whoever he wants with Ball Lightning Clock does 5 damage to Aperture, attacks whoever he wants with the other 3 zombies Rock does 5 damage to Aperture (ninja), attacks whoever he wants with the other ninja Nova does 2 damage to Aperture and 2 damage to some other player who is being attacked by creatures Stutters does 3 damage to a target of his choice Suck does 0 damage (presumably, although he has that combo thing where he drops down enchants and doesn't draw cards in order to deal damage). Attacks someone with his 0/2 beastie as per his own policy suggestion. Aperture does 4 damage to Xfire and dies Xfire dies a horrible death, hopefully dealing no damage. /Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 01:52 Stutters695 wrote: I can understand not trying to defend himself anymore since it is pretty much consensus that he's dying. Don't quite get his lack of pressuring any reads however. If he is going to flip town he should probably pursue his reads up to the flip. The silence makes me a bit more confident in him being scum but also worried he's going to have something game changing. Rock do you honestly think I'm anywhere close to as scummy as Nova? What changed in the past 24 hours that made your list go from Nova, AS, me to AS, Nova=me? CH I'm assuming you are the next town to go due to your board. Does my 3kp difference over two turns affect our killing potential over the next two days? Right now I don't see how it does and being able to be lethal myself forces either the scum to kill me or town has a free lynch when our kp starts to stagger. Honestly, I think the game ends tomorrow (if it doesn't today). T5, if it happens at all (and we fucked up bigtime if it does), will have 2 townies and 1 scum alive. Mafia creature will be 16/16, so forget about a T6 happening. That means you come out 1 damage ahead if we include T5, if you go the Gaea's Anthem path. Moreover, Infect doesn't play nicely with other forms of damage (you need to do the 10 poison counters all by yourself, whereas everybody can chip in on bringing life total down). You're only lethal on your own if you can guarantee 10 damage regardless of blockers (trample obviously helps). However, 6 regular damage is almost certainly going to be more help than anything < 10 poison counters (even 9). /Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 02:22 Aperture Science wrote: By the way, if you've read or played with me in any previous games, you'd know that I don't have a meta. I have never played the same in two games and I'm proud of that (usually) Why are you trying to be Drazerk? | ||
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Aperture is more likely to flip town than scum imo. "Oh no!" you might cry in despair. "But he's playing so bad" To which I reply "bad =/= scum." Yes, my brethen, it is true. If he is town, he's played bad as fuck. Like, really bad. Abysmal. Doesn't matter though. Just think about the situation: You're scum with Cross. Who just outed himself as scum. Who is going to die easily tonight. "town" has plenty KP left over to kill you, and then some. YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED SCUM ALL GAME. You are aware you played like shit. Nobody wants you alive. Why do you still bother bussing Cross? Why would you take damage in the face, just to redirect it to Cross? Your buddy? that means you both die tonight. After all, everybody is just saying "yeah let's flip aperture" and gonzo goes all "I WANT FLIPS! I DEMAND DEAD BODIES FOR MY GOD ODIN!" all the time. Would you, as scum, still keep doing damage, taking damage, like it's no big deal? Maybe. It's not impossible. I'm not saying aperture is confirmed town or anything. HOWEVER, the far more likely, and simple, solution is this: Aperture is town. He knows he's going to die today. Since he's town, he helps flipping Cross, so that town has more KP in total. Excess KP that town can deal to somebody after his body is already cold. I anticipate WIFOM arguments to come to counter this. I anticipate all those arguments to be horseshit. ~dandel | ||
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He's more likely to be scum. So we just go kill him. Easy. ~dandel | ||
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On February 05 2013 02:39 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: if he didn't bus crossfire, then people like you wouldn't post things like this Except, he didn't have to do damage. The gonzo said "I have an instant which can do damage to Xfire". iGrok's response was "I drew fork. I can copy that instant". He DIDN'T have to say that. He had NO reason to claim he has fork in his hand. Would he deliberately out that he can help killing off his scumbuddy and make it easier to kill himself? I don't think so. Dandel has a point and you're just sore that your evil scumplan of killing off a townie is now failing. /Acro | ||
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1. Xfire is going to die, regardless. 2. Aperture is almost certainly going to die, but town might not have enough damage. Aperture adds to town's damage, further increasing the likelihood that 2 will happen, for no apparent gain. The only gain is that someone like Dandel comes along and says "wait, there was no reason to cast that fork". Ockham's Razor says that that is far more unlikely than that Aperture is town and wanted to contribute in killing scum any way he can, seeing as his deck has failed him spectacularly. PS. We drew complete crap from the Bazaar. We can do 11 damage this turn. | ||
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Everybody else: Aperture is town. Suck is scum. Act accordingly | ||
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I would swap "comprehensive" with a more ...accurate choice of words, but generally.... ~dandel | ||
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Town Marv, in LIX, saw Austin as town because he could have taken himself out of the mayoral election, yet didn't. What would scum's reason be to run against his scumbuddy? EXACTLY: to appear townie. Yet, he used Ockham's Razor and read Austin as town. Correctly. Despite Austin being (apparently) on the wrong side of lynches all game long. Scum Marv is ignoring the same reasoning here[/b] in favour of saying Aperture is scum, because it will lynch a townie and probably prevent scum Marv from dying. Town Marv sees this kind of play and recognizes the townieness in it. Scum Marv doesn't want to admit that point, because he is next on the chopping block and needs more time. Scum Marv must die for his sins. | ||
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On February 05 2013 03:30 RockHydra wrote: bleh, I'm stuck at work for a while longer tonight. getting really paranoid though.. is CH trying to get rid of the people with the strongest decks? I have no idea how strong everybodies decks are. But AS and suck seem to certainly have the weirdest decks.. probably setting up for monster combo's. Happened to me last game too, and then it all turned out alright though anywayz.. crunch time for me now. bbasaic Maybe AS is scummish, but definately not convinced on suck. /zebezt That's because you are a newbie, falling under the entrancing hypnotism of scum Marv. I suggest you read some scum games by Marv. For instance, Hero Mini Mafia, where scum Marv wraps town around his finger. However, scum Marv can be found out, because sometimes he is forced to push a scum agenda, such as now. Learn to recognize when scum Marv is not being a friendly townie and is not scumhunting and also not townhunting and you can catch scum Marv. /Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 03:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: why does this feel like setting up mislynches :x Dat scumslip! There is 1 scum left If that scum is us, why push this lynch away from the easiest fucking mislynch in the world? If that scum is NOT US, we are clearly not (intentionally) setting up a mislynch. However, if that scum is scum Marv he would really really like [greenyou to think so[/green] KILL IT WITH FIRE. OR ZOMBIES. OR BEARS. IN FACT, ALL OF THOSE | ||
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On February 05 2013 03:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: why does this feel like setting up mislynches :x Dat scumslip! There is 1 scum left If that scum is us, why push this lynch away from the easiest fucking mislynch in the world? If that scum is NOT US, we are clearly not (intentionally) setting up a mislynch. However, if that scum is scum Marv he would really really like you to think so KILL IT WITH FIRE. OR ZOMBIES. OR BEARS. IN FACT, ALL OF THOSE Now without format fail | ||
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Tho killing aperture is really overrated and just killing marv is a better way to win. ~dandel | ||
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On February 05 2013 06:01 RockHydra wrote: hmmm I disagree with this. You might be right about that it would actually be better to wait, but then why DIDN'T he wait? /zebezt Because the reason to wait was pretty much gone when SnB said what the board card could do in the thread. Also, ignore the Aperture case. Kill SuckMyTopDeck. | ||
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On February 05 2013 07:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I do wonder CH, what made you instantly figure out Suck is the scum and Aperture is town? Or was this heavily discussed between Acro/dandel, and you guys had some feelings about this from before? /G We spent a lot of today discussing this. Dandel noticed that scum Appy has no sensible reason to offer to fork DD spells. Given that Appy and Suck were our prime scumspects and Appy just dropped off, that left Suck = scum. Marv's reaction to the "Appy is town" case just convinced us further. /Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 06:57 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: lol Clock that's hilarious What was hilarious? | ||
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However, if you were to click on our filter and read a few of our posts, you would realize how much nonsense your allegation is. Also, we're not "milking the xfire case". We are trying to kill scum. PS. If you think "milking the xfire case" is scummy, we present scum Marv: On February 01 2013 09:32 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Well Nova looks much better now, I'm happy to get off my Burgler tunnel, even if it was the best thing ever. CH obviously looks much better compared to my previous list because of the Crossfire stuff. This obviously leaves a really large line where CH has moved up a lot as well as Nova, and Crossfire moved down. The first thing I did in this game was agree that Crossfire was scummy and attack Aperture. I'm totes an MTG master. And he never even made a case on Xfire, just non-committally "agreed" to it. Taking credit for a scum lynch when you didn't do jack shit for it? Hell yeah, sign scum Marv up (this scumtell was brought to you by Dandel Ion, the best Ion). /Acro | ||
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I mean, sorry for not posting it on day 1? or what you want from us. Tell me what your actual problem is. On February 05 2013 08:34 RockHydra wrote: What exactly? Not killing AS now? Because that actually sounds completely reasonable, I prefer to WIFOM that dilemma into AS being town. That means I should want stutters and Nova based on my previous reads. I'm reconsidering stutters. He wants me to update my read on him and doesn't want to let me off the hook for what I've said. That feels townie to me. Based on the interaction between marv and acro, I'd prefer SuckMyTopDeck over AS for today's primary lynch target. I'm rereading Nova to see if I still want him as my second choice. One of the rare times my hydra-head and I manage to agree. I'm around for 10ish minutes and then headed out to dinner. I'll be catching up properly later tonight. ~Hopeless Why are you even thinking about that? >.< It's not about who you "should" want to lynch. Are your opinions so weak you have trouble remembering them? ~dandel | ||
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like, in 23 hours from now? ~dandel | ||
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Now gonzaw, what's your excuse for agreeing with stutters on this? ~dandel | ||
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noooooooo my first hyrda fail T_T | ||
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On February 05 2013 09:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Okay. | ||
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~dandel | ||
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Face it, you played like shit this game. Happens. No need to be a salty asshole about it | ||
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On February 05 2013 11:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: no, i played fine. i've only played played badly as mafia once and this isn't it. again, you're a fucking atrocious player, and you always will be. | ||
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While you're at it you can just concede. No need to drag a solved game out any further. ~dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 15:52 Nova_Terra wrote: The point that CH needs to be able to be killed is a valid one, and i worry about that. This is only valid if you think that we are scum. The only reason you think we might be scum is because we have a powerful deck. You, nor anybody else has given a reason to think we're scum. If we are scum, we have played the most insanely brilliant game ever played by a scum ever. At the same time, we have played the most insanely mindbogglingly stupid game ever played by a scum ever. BOTH AT ONCE. Here is what we have done as scum: 1. The very first action of Xfire was apparently to write in scumQT: "I am going to claim scum on D2, so what you should do is bus me hardcore from my opening post until I am dead." This will give you town credit. To which we replied "sure buddy, claiming scum is a wonderful idea" and followed the plan through. In fact, we did this so convincingly that Xfire was easily 2. We did this so convincingly that Xfire took out the only (potentially) important card in our graveyard and the main engine of our deck. This effectively stalls our deck from a point where we would have been completely unkillable by town (as in, entirely) and could probably have killed 2 townies singlehandedly in D4, to a point where we are merely strong contenders. The ninjas are getting rolling and Rock will have 2 decently big creatures and a load of shitty ones next turn. Stutters will eventually have a load of fatties and presumably Nova's deck is coming online at some point around now, with finally a changeling hitting the board. 3. When someone came up with a plan for Xfire to live, we panicked and tried to bury it in 1-line spam. Because we don't want our scumbuddy seeing the plan for him to live. When this failed to work because people discussed it instead of burying it, we yelled at SnB for being stupid. Because we, as scum, realize that our scumbuddy living for a day longer would be a terrible blow to our master plan (this was sarcasm). 4. Okay, so all is well again, scumbuddy Xfire is back on track to be dying. We are on our way to the fruition of our masterplan and everybody is planning on killing the guy with the potentially scary combo deck, that might go off in our faces despite our strong creature-based position. We then look at Suck and think "hrmmm, SnB is also good at magic, and he has this incredibly scary Verduran Enchantress out". Furthermore, this combos INCREDIBLY WELL with Words of War, which he has in his hand. He will be able to do 2 entire damage for 2 mana any time he plays an enchantment. With Shimmering Wings (of which I don't even think there's a GRW variant) that would mean 2 damage to anything or anybody for the measly cost of 4 mana. At least, that is the case I have heard so far for why we are pushing this lynch onto Suck from a scum perspective: "Suck's deck is more powerful". What? Now I don't know how SnB's deck works. It's possible that there is another piece to the combo that will eventually cause that to be a threat. However, that same can be said for Aperture, who seems far more likely to, at some point, just play 15 cards and say "I deal 20 damage to everybody. I win". Furthermore, since when does scum behave like this? Scum doesn't spend all day derailing town plans to possibly kill a guy who looks like he might be a threat in the future. No. They go along with town plans and then kill the threat at night. 5. Just read our filter, okay. Just look at it and see how completely impossible our play would have been from a scum perspective. Even if you think we're wrong about Suck, look at our filter. TLDR: Don't panic. I know it's scary to be carried. I was super paranoid of Sandroba in SSM when he came up with the plan to "everybody just mass claim to me and I'll carry you all to victory". But after a lot of evaluation I realized it was highly unlikely he was scum and went with it. Now I'm not claiming I can hold a candle to Sandro's town play, but if you take a moment to analyze both Dandel and my play this game you will see that us being scum is completely impossible this game. And that is why you don't need us to be killable. /Acro PS: to preempt Zebezt, pointing out why we're town is because apparently nobody is taking our repeated advice to actually read our filter and figure this shit out for themselves and is instead listening to scum Marv's words (when they should just be preparing to kill him). | ||
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On February 05 2013 20:46 RockHydra wrote: ok ok CH I need to take a chill pill. Although I still think ignoring people with useless scum accusations is more helpful. Doesn't waste so much time. If I had to deal with everybody that had some weird scumfeel about us, I wouldnt have time to scumhunt. I still think we should lynch nova instead of AS though. At least AS tries to be useful, nova is completely useless. And super suspicious with bullshit about xfire maybe not being scum. /zebezt I am quite happy with Dandel's AS is town case. Am in the process of deciding where I think the extra KP should go. Hopefully Dandel comes back and we can discuss it. I agree that keeping AS alive is a good plan, because he's town. I thought the rest of town couldn't be convinced of this, but if one of you is coming to see the light, then it may be worth fighting for. /Acro | ||
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Poster, where are you? I took a brief flit over your filter and your activity was sky high on D1, moderate on D2 and D3 you have dropped off the face of the planet. Where are you? What are your current reads? AS, where's your Rock analysis? You promised us a Rock analysis, but I don't see it. I want to save you, but I need your help. Please be a productive member of town, rather than dropping away now that town does not necessarily want to kill you. Acro's reads The townies Clockwork -- flipping duh. Stutters -- in addition to the earlier town tell, he is pigheadedly stubborn. If scum, he is willfully angering the bear (hur hur hur) by playing the wrong cards. For what? Extra damage after the game has ended. Pointless. Aperture -- fork you. Yes, I went there Poster -- I may need to take a closer look at him, but I have no reason to doubt my D1 and D2 reads on him. Also, unleashed total annihilation on Xfire with 3 chain lightnings. I see no reason to claim 3 CLs (maybe 1) if he's scum. The may be scum if we're wrongies Rock, Nova. Not much to say yet, I have to filter them properly and kinda don't feel like it (so much work). They both gave D1 town impressions and have been doing jack since. We can't do enough damage to kill either of them anyway. I vote people distribute their damage over these targets, see plan below. The kill with fire-ies Suck -- Zombies snacking on his brains will be a feast for my eyes. Scumhunting by mutual destruction Damage potential: Suck: 0 AS: 0 Poster: 7 Clock: 11 Nova: 4 Rock: 7 Stutters: 2 Suck is at 18 life and has a blocker (assuming he is not following his own policy), so Rock's 2/2 Ninja, Poster's BL and my Zombie tokens attack Suck. Nova gives +2/+0 to 2 unblocked creatures (or the ball lightning and 1 unblocked creature). That should bring him down to 0. We then have a Lavamancer, a Ghoul, a Phyrexian Stalker and a Bear that can do an extra 11 damage. Tell me where that should go. My current opinion is that the stalker should hit Nova, allowing it to become a 5/5 Ninja and reanimating a 4/4 changeling. This also allows Nova's Cryptoplasm to become 5/5 next upkeep. The rest attacks Rock and does 6 damage. In compensation for Nova not blocking the Ninja, Rock does not block the incoming damage. Reasoning: if Suck inadvertently isn't scum, then I am pretty convinced Rock or Nova is. If Suck IS scum, then none of this damage matters. If Suck is NOT scum, then both are in a position to unleash destruction on each other next turn with big creatures AND both are sufficiently lowered so the big creatures can finish the job. An unearthed Ball Lightning, the rampaging horde of zombies and a 4/4 bear will all be around to help out. Hell, maybe AS goes off and kills us all. Nova: will you be around tomorrow during the blocking phase? If not, this all doesn't work, because we need you to block a Phyrexian Stalker if Rock decides to block damage-dealing beasties. Other objections: but this assumes Clockwork, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, are town! Regarding myself, see the post above, read my filter and get comfortable with it. Regarding Stutters, see above. Regarding Poster, I am still comfortable with him being town, despite the dropoff in activity and regarding AS: it only assumes AS is town to the extent that it assumes he is either town, or won't go off tomorrow. There is no way of really assessing this risk, but I am currently comfortable with it (I think he's town). /Acro | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On February 05 2013 23:41 Acrofales wrote: Except I am not 100% sure that Suck is scum and neither should you be. I would repeat the mantra that nobody is confirmed until the flip, but it doesn't really hold in this game because Xfire actually claimed scum. Nevertheless, it holds for Marv. So, while I fully expect him to flip scum, that doesn't mean we don't plan for other contingencies. If he IS scum, then you took 6 damage but the game is over. If he's not scum, then you took 6 damage, but also got 2 big beasties out. Overall, a pretty good trade. Same deal for Nova. If either of you ninja-blocks, then the other blocks the damage too (no harm done) and we murder whoever ninja-blocked the next day. It is really simple. So what you should be doing right now is checking myself, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, to see if you agree with the town reads in the plan, because that's the main thing it hinges on. @Greymist: I will reread Stutters' filter. He has addressed your earlier analysis and I would like you to make an updated case that does not require me to look through a spreadsheet that ignores the context of a lot of posts. Also, what do you think of my own analysis of Stutters? Both Dandel and I have him as a strong town read, but I will redo the filtering to be sure. /Acro | ||
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Attack people. And attacking Nova (who you btw have as a scumread in case you forgot) should not be a problem for you, no? And it would allow you to reanimate a baller changeling for further terrible damage next turn. What exactly is your problem about it? ~dandel | ||
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On February 06 2013 00:33 RockHydra wrote: I have no problem attacking nova with the creatures we have out now. But we will block anyone attacking us with the creatures we are casting this turn. Town is not helped at all by us dying. /zebezt If you block, Nova blocks. You don't get a 5/5 baller OR a 4/4 baller. You do not deal damage. You do not pass go. It is fucking stupid. /Acro | ||
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While chump blocking like a little girl. Gotcha. ~dandel | ||
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MAGIC! ~dandel | ||
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~dandel | ||
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![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/mtgmini.jpg/) Current state of the game and what needs to happen. Rock, if you attack Nova with your 2/2 then Suck doesn't die. Do you want Suck to not die? Do you think who attacked who was arbitrary? Think again. We have checks and balances for everything. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/482/mtgmini.jpg) | ||
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Nova, please comment on the attack plan outlined here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17723846 | ||
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On February 06 2013 02:23 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: so, how do i attack with my blocker? When the attack phase starts, you type: ##attack <TARGET> with Verduran Enchantress | ||
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On February 06 2013 04:13 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Sheez marv, are you going through your period again? Calm down. Yes. Which is why Rock keeps confusing him for a girl. ~dandel | ||
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ALL OF THE BELOW IS ONLY RELEVANT IF WE ARE HUMONGOUSLY WRONG ON MARV. IF MARV IS SCUM WE WILL ALL HAVE A LAUGH AT ACRO'S PARANOIA TOMORROW. Rock's reaction to the plan: On February 06 2013 00:06 RockHydra wrote: I have no idea why we should let people attack us. Just because you are too lazy to read our filter? That would put us super in scumbeast reach if I'm not mistaken. What is your plan there? We should just attack the scummy people: suck/nova /zebezt This reaction smells of scum, because he clearly isn't interested in the plan: his problem with the plan is that he dies. He doesn't CARE about our town reads, or verifying them. He cares about surviving (ergo: not taking damage). He is also FAR too focused on surviving past today, which gives me the feeling he expects Suck to flip green. Rock moaning about the mafia creature is irrelevant: he is not important and currently not even looking green. Would any medic bother protecting him? No. While I hate scum for it, if I am a VT I generally prefer to die. Knowing it means that shot didn't blast a blue. Now this game doesn't have blues. But it does have more valuable townies than Rock (those in the Happy Town village). Rock should be happy to soak up a NK as town. However, as scum he would definitely use that as an argument why he doesn't want to be low.Now I thought maybe Rock just didn't get it. So I wanted Nova's reaction: On February 06 2013 04:58 Nova_Terra wrote: taking 5 damage is fine, whatever as long as rockhydra dies when i do thats cool with me This is what I expect from a townie. He realizes his life is worth spending as long as scum is guaranteed to die as well. I therefore want to amend the plan for tomorrow. It looks like we won't have enough damage tomorrow to kill Nova, Rock and AS. In fact, we might only have enough damage to kill only one of them. Rock has big blockers and they need to be dealt with. I thus suggest the following amendment: Rock, we are using the damage on you as a voluntary DT check. If you block, you claim scum. If you don't block, you are not claiming town, but are refraining from openly claiming scum. If you claim scum by blocking, it means we don't have to bother about your "scumspect" (Nova), or the offchance that AS is scum. We can thus focus all damage on you tomorrow, which guarantees your death. If you are a townie, you won't block 6 damage. Yes, you might die to the mafia beast and you will almost certainly die tomorrow, but Nova (and probably AS) will die tomorrow as well. So, if you're town and believe Nova might be scum: do not claim scum by blocking. /Acro | ||
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So who is this magical scum who benefits from killing you? Once again, if you block, you die alone next turn. You do not drag Nova with you to your grave. | ||
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On February 06 2013 06:22 Aperture Science wrote: I'm not actually here, just goofing off at work. Basically, I got like 1/3 through rock's filter and felt enough towniness to convince GreY. Can you convince me? I will look through his filter, but there's a couple of other things (in addition to this) that were throwing up red flags and why I had him as a null read: their beginning felt townie, but H1 went lurky and Zebezt throws off mixed signals. H1 going lurky is not unexpected, although he is MORE lurky as scum than as town. I don't know Zebezt at all. What do you make of his fear of the mafia beast? /Acro | ||
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On February 06 2013 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote: Im kinda thinking that theres nothing worth copying You know that there'll be a 5/5 reanimating ninja on the field, right? | ||
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On February 06 2013 06:43 Nova_Terra wrote: Okay, next turn is that? Cause i might not be able to copy it if its played next turn (upkeep step) 5/5 sounds good tho I could also champion my crypto next turn for a 7/7, but summoning sickness and all... It will be dropped by Rock during the attack phase of this turn. | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:01 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Although I agree with that, kill everybody, fuck everything. Either we win or hilariously lose, but meh either way /G Didn't you read the scumhunting by mutual annihilation? It's why I haven't really bothered to figure Rock out too much and just want him dead if Marv flips town. | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: *when While you have calmed down today and seem resigned to your fate, you haven't done anything today to make me think you're town after playing like you have a mafia agenda all game (deliberately phrased carefully so as not to anger the rageMarv). You say it's because you were trolling and not trying, but that doesn't explain your hilariously bad case on Nova. It doesn't explain your refusal to give town credit to AS for accelerating Xfire's death when there was no reason to do it as scum. It doesn't explain why SnB is playing like his lurky scumself and not his insightful townself. Saying SnB is afk, when he is playing the game enough to drop by and play his enchantments, is not a valid reason. SnB dropped in once a day in SSM too (and flipped scum at the end of it). Saying you don't care about the game doesn't excuse you pushing targets for obviously bad reasons. /Acro | ||
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FUUUUUUUU | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:26 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well...we do have the KP to kill Aperture AND someone else today. If we don't kill Aperture, we can only kill 1 guy today. Clock, what do you say we kill Aperture and Nova/Rock today? If the game doesn't end you can kill Suck tomorrow with all your super zombies and I won't oppose it (and neither will Prome) We do have the KP to kill Aperture+someone else, but not the KP to kill a non-Aperture+another non-Aperture You say he's town, well I say he could be or could not, just kill him (like I said like all game long). If you think Suck is the sole scum, do you think he can somehow survive tomorrow? /G Tomorrow it looks like SnB's deck is actually going to be strong, as opposed to today. He said it has lots of life gain. He now draws 2 cards per enchant: Cast Words of Power, draw 2 cards. Cast random, cheap, enchantment, draw 1 card and do 2 damage (or 4 damage to someone). This is limited by his mana, of which he has 8. If he has a land (highly likely) that is 9 tomorrow. If he has wild growths or utopia sprawl in his hand, that means he can cast enchantments for free. From that he can keep fueling his engine or do 4 damage per enchant. That deck is now officially scary and will kill people before tomorrow's attack phase. Lets kill Suck today: probability of Suck going off tomorrow? Very high. Probabiltiy of AS going off? Probably still low (and making him use forks probably makes the combo weaker). | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:28 RockHydra wrote: If you plan to kill suck, better do it today, they (almost said she) are about to take off. AS can wait if you ask me. /zebezt now im rly off This is shorter than what I said, but essentiall the same thing. | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:35 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: the problem is, i'm town :o Nobody believes you. | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:36 marvellosity wrote: do you think if i were scum i could win tomorrow if you leave me alive? hmm? I know that the combo you have layed out can do upwards of 20 damage and you claimed to have life gain as well. So maybe you can't outright win tomorrow, but you can probably make yourself unkillable. Either by damaging all the creatures, or by killing the player off (as well as life gain). I am not gambling on you being town after how you've played. You have played like scum, now die like one. | ||
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We kill Suck. Their defense is either "I don't suck this bad as town" or "I suck this bad as either alignment". That's it. Just some appeals to emotion. No content. Stay strong. Don't believe their lies. ~dandel | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:10 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: yeah, CH's defence of him was pretty bad. but there you go. i'm happy if you think CH is town and Stutters is town than town wins, that's what i've been wanting to hear from a non-looney for a while Here you express confidence in Gonzaw's belief that town will win. On February 06 2013 05:30 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Although I have to admit Rock's defensiveness about taking damage is odd Here you agree that wanting to live for the sake of living is not a particularly townie thing to do. Yet here: On February 06 2013 07:54 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Because Prome/gonzaw explained we can kill other people today (people who could actually flip mafia) and I could still be killed off tomorrow if they're both town, which is just hunky dorey You express the desire to live despite earlier expressing confidence that town can do just fine without you. You know who wants to live for the sake of living? Scum does. If you are, in fact, town (nobody should believe this), then you should rest in the happy knowledge that there is no way AS, Suck and Nova are all outlasting Stutters, Rock and me. Die like a happy townie, or as a fighting scum. What you SHOULD be doing as a townie is finding us the scum to kill instead of you. But no. You want to kill other people, regardless of their alignment. We kill scum Marv | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:05 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Oh, how considerate of you, thanks Anyways....ehm.. Clock, Nova used the exact same defense as Suck for ignoring my "case" against him, that he's "good as scum and sucks as town" (or whatever). Does it mean Nova is as likely scum as Suck, more or less? /G Marv isn't scum because his defense is bad, it's because he was acting like scum in the first place. | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:07 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: What? I've made it quite clear who we should be killing today. Not my fault you don't read or listen and just rant on and on and on. *yawns* Aperture Science, who has contributed to town goals. Something you haven't (other than giving Bin a town read just before the mafia creature conveniently roflstomped him). | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Finally, a policy proposal. I proposed this last game and people kind of ignored it but I still think it's a good idea. My proposal is to attack every turn with all your creatures. This does a number of things: (1) It's kind of like voting, in that it forces people to take stands they can be held accountable for. In a way these stands are even firmer than normal votes, since they result in lasting damage to people and you can't do a throwaway vote at your scum buddy. (2) It gets damage down early and stops blocking. Since the mafia monster gets more powerful each turn, blocking hurts town more than scum. People should not block ever. If you have an ornithopter, it should be tapped and attacking for zero damage. -snb You going to follow your own policy proposal? | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:05 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Oh, how considerate of you, thanks Anyways....ehm.. Clock, Nova used the exact same defense as Suck for ignoring my "case" against him, that he's "good as scum and sucks as town" (or whatever). Does it mean Nova is as likely scum as Suck, more or less? /G Suck is more scum. The defense is the same as marv's, but snb did his version of it, called "I'm bad as either alignment". So that makes him twice as scummy alone. Add to that that marv doesn't suck as town, so it's more lies. I dunno if nova is good as scum, if he's town this game, it doesn't look like a hard meta to copy tbh. Or he's delusional. Whatever. Not that that's even a big point. I prefer killing the scummy liar that suddenly has a weird interest in staying alive after doing a fake ragequit just yesterday. ~dandel | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:13 marvellosity wrote: sorry, when was i a scummy liar? or are you just being hyperbolically pointless and bad again? Marv, you should type ##attack Clockwork Hydra with Verduran Enchantress in the game thread. If you're afraid I'll block and kill your silly little animal instead of just killing you, then attack Aperture Science instead. | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:13 marvellosity wrote: sorry, when was i a scummy liar? or are you just being hyperbolically pointless and bad again? Last time I called out your little lies, you were far more compliant. You should keep your story straight. You EITHER try to buddy people up OR flame them. Doing both is just soooo wrong. ~dandel | ||
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No need to when you already know all the alignments, right? ~dandel | ||
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The sooner you do that, the sooner we can be sure you won't chump block something. /Acro | ||
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What you said: On February 01 2013 09:32 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Well Nova looks much better now, I'm happy to get off my Burgler tunnel, even if it was the best thing ever. CH obviously looks much better compared to my previous list because of the Crossfire stuff. This obviously leaves a really large line where CH has moved up a lot as well as Nova, and Crossfire moved down. The first thing I did in this game was agree that Crossfire was scummy and attack Aperture. I'm totes an MTG master. What you did, in chronological order (and cutting out SnB's trolly savannah stuff). + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Thread entry. Note the bolded part. For the record, Dandel wasn't, he was stating the absolute fucking obvious. + Show Spoiler [Dandel's followup] + On January 29 2013 11:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Merely stating the truth. What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course. Also, you don't post much. What gives? ~dandel Irrelevant to the case On January 29 2013 11:49 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I haven't posted much because I literally found out the deck s&b submitted two hours ago. In case you aren't mafia, here's a pro-tip: don't tell mafia what to do to make you consider them as townies. It should be fucking obvious, but here I am saying it. On January 29 2013 11:58 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: It wasn't a bad post at all. It was a good post. It's not my fault if you're too stupid to comprehend this. The intentions behind my post were perfectly clear. I find it suspicious. Wait.. WHAT? Telling mafia what to do is suspicious? So telling mafia what to do makes you... mafia? Imagine that! Stop! Dandel! You are giving yourself ideas you would otherwise never have had! A badtell? Hell yes. If Dandel had actually been telling mafia a non-obvious thing they could do to make themselves look townie, this would be bad. But how is it suspicious? I'll tell you how: scum Marv didn't think this through, saw someone make a bad play and tried to cash in on it for some cheap scumhunting points. Now, on with what I was actually doing. The first thing you did in the thread was clearly not to "agree" with a crossfire case, because there wasn't even a crossfire case. The first thing you did was also not to attack Aperture, but rather to attack Clockwork. Lets continue. There's quite a bit more on the above little thing, and a load of fluff. Then come the second and third "things" he does in the thread: + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 12:15 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: No, he seems to be posting too much to be mafia right now. I mean, he could be trying to take some weird control as mafia, but probably not. Second thing he does is give a town read on Poster. On January 30 2013 05:00 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: well that attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, dear. what did you think of s&b's policy post? Ignores scumhunting in favour of deflection. Finally, the 4th thing he does is to agree with the Xfire case and "attack" AS (if this pressure can be called an attack): + Show Spoiler [post] + On January 30 2013 05:08 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Yeah, I can't add too much more to what's been said about Crossfire, I generally agree. I especially noted how Crossfire called himself a magic noob (like me) but then proceeded to wade in with some strange Magic waffle (unlike me). I'm also not sure whether iGrok is on menopause, or maybe mafia: Given he said this, all he's done is shout at people. This post from Grey rubbed me the wrong way, although I'm not sure how warranted I am to think so: Like, gosh guys, I'm so excited to be playing, except I can't play for another 3 days yet, so definitely keep me around till then guys, right? However, that thing he is so proud of? He recants the suspicion on his scumbuddy about 24 hours later: + Show Spoiler [xfire not scum] + On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. And THAT is his official opinion until Xfire claims scum. TLDR: claims he "agreed" with the Xfire case, whereas he actually spent the important part (attack phase, where we could actually do damage to scumspects) of T1 claiming Xfire was newbie town, not scum. Gem: telling mafia what to do is a badtell, not a scumtell. Marv is a veteran and knows that, yet he was suspicious of Dandel for "telling mafia what to do". That's because scum Marv wanted to quickly cash in on some bad play and discredit a townie in the process. Scum Marv must die /Acro | ||
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On February 06 2013 09:47 Acrofales wrote: 1. + Show Spoiler [here] + On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness: gonz/Prome - blates town me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol) Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum. Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial. Ta-da! 2. But that's not at all what you said. You said it was suspicious that he was telling mafia what to do. Not that it was suspicious that he had made a load of posts that looked like they were contributing but weren't. 3. Giving generic advice isn't a scumtell unless it's your only contribution quite a bit further into the game. Otherwise 99% of TL Mafia is looking suspicious in the first 12 hours of a game. Your problem was also clearly not with it being generic advice. Your problem was that giving mafia advice on how to look townie was suspicious. PS. Putting stuff in red is awesome and you'll never stop me. On February 06 2013 09:48 Acrofales wrote: Are you going to attack? Or chump block? Zzzzzzzz | ||
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Are you going to attack or chump block? | ||
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On February 06 2013 09:56 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: lol are you really this braindead acro you're adorable I'm going to take that as "I'm chump blocking" Plan: 8 damage worth of zombies stomps Suck. 6 damage worth of ball lightning stomps Suck. 2 damage worth of ninja stomps Suck. 4 damage from Nova's instants attack Suck. ---- 20 damage total, of which 2 can be blocked. Suck is tapped out, so no shenanigans are possible. Stutters: please stand by if Rock attacks someone else with his ninja. The rest of the damage is unfortunately not enough to kill anybody (due to chump blocking occurring), so please keep it in reserve until the above list of things has happened. Then I guess, attack who you wish. /Acro | ||
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Nova said he was cool with the plan. | ||
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PS. Don't you have 8? Unearth Ball Lightning and do 2 damage with Grim Lavamancer? | ||
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On February 06 2013 10:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: From what I calculated, we just need 23 KP from Clock+Stutters+guys that are alive except me/Prome (or less if we draw something else) /G That will not be a problem. We can deal 23 by ourselves. | ||
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On February 06 2013 10:35 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: well, i'm sure i must have some KP to use by now anyway Yes, although I don't know your hand, you can "go off" tomorrow, dealing well over 20 damage, which is one of the reasons YOU need to die today. The main reason, though, is because you're scum. | ||
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Since tomorrow. Today we can do 11. | ||
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Also, after that my deck will be pretty much spent and it'll take me aeons to rebuild, so if you are scum, Stutters better be able to kill you on T5 /Acro | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:10 RockHydra wrote: I, too, found that quite comical. Nevertheless, Suck gets to die today. I still good to send ink-eyes at Nova right? ~Hopeless I believe Gonzaw wants Aperture to die, but I think it's impossible due to SnB clearly planning on chump blocking: if we do optimum damage, we can do 11 damage to Aperture. He can tap a random land to avoid the bomb and he lives. I also disagree with it, because I believe Aperture is town, but I'm done arguing. I am fine with anything as long as Suck dies. /Acro | ||
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If we say what card, we give away its rather obvious limitations. We don't want to do that, because it is theoretically possible scum can mess with that. | ||
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Going to bed. Just do this and all will be well On February 06 2013 10:12 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I'm going to take that as "I'm chump blocking" Plan: 8 damage worth of zombies stomps Suck. 6 damage worth of ball lightning stomps Suck. 2 damage worth of ninja stomps Suck. 4 damage from Nova's instants attack Suck. ---- 20 damage total, of which 2 can be blocked. Suck is tapped out, so no shenanigans are possible. Stutters: please stand by if Rock attacks someone else with his ninja. The rest of the damage is unfortunately not enough to kill anybody (due to chump blocking occurring), so please keep it in reserve until the above list of things has happened. Then I guess, attack who you wish. /Acro | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:15 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well, there are several things: 1)I am not entirely sure about it (i.e you not dying today). I said Nova+Aperture or Nova+Rock would have more chances to flip scum, but if all 4 of you die then ultimately it doesn't matter that much, but I am trying to think ways around it to increase town's chances of winning. 2)Even without 1, I don't know really if I can convince Clock not to use his 11 KP on you. I am trying though, but if I'm not sure who to use it on then I can't do much. I could talk with Prome more but he doesn't give much of a shit since the game is "solved" lol 3)I'm kind of frustrated/tired/etc right now to step into you and Clock's shitstorm. Specially frustrated at the other players still not doing anything (still looking at Nova and Aperture). I'll do have to think about this a little bit though. Suck, how much damage can you do tomorrow and how? Suck being alive tomorrow may not pose that much of a threat, if he uses his KP on Nova/Aperture/Rock (or whoever is left standing from those). If he uses it on Clock or me or Stutters or something like that....then surely we all just gang up on him and he loses (as scum). We could force him to attack like before 12 hours from T4's Attack Phase or something to prevent that. Artanis said that attacks are fixed and can't be changed. This can give us path to kill Aperture and/or Nova/Rock today. /G Which part of combo deck going off do you not understand? Did you even LOOK at what he did today? He drew 17million cards. He will keep the best of them (the combo pieces). I didn't understand how the deck works until that happened, but read here how the Enchantress combo works: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/melissadetora-070512-casting-enchantments-for-fun-and-profit-a-legacy-enchantress-primer/ I'm guessing that today we just got lucky that he didn't have a solitary confinement or whatever his deck runs to stop him from being killed easily (there's also a card where you don't lose the game if you are at less than 1 life). | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:25 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also marv you can't really say I don't care lol. "Not caring" was your whole motto this game basically lol You could try doing something today instead of flinging shit back and forth with Clock Do you think any of Rock/Nova is like very likely town or something? That'd be good to hear (to change our killing order perhaps). Also where the fuck is S&B again? S&B, can you give at least 1,5% of a crap this game, if it means you can convince everybody not to kill you? You should have fresh ideas and reads ever since...like T1 I believe? Hey Clock, would you be willing to like give your 11 KP to me+Prome to choose who to die, even if it means it may not be Suck? Also, do you prefer your "battle plan" stuff you said, or maybe flipping Aperture today? You have like a bajillion KP tomorrow, so you can like kill Nova/Rock single-handily right? Or not? Any ideas/thoughts about it? Also...please try to keep a cool head and don't assume Suck will flip scum 100%. If he flips town and I see you maybe trying to get me killed because of you "being paranoid" or some shit I'll seriously lose my mind (it happened with Toad last game, remember? Albeit with other players lol) /G I have Suck as my top scum read. I also believe he stands a good chance of killing us all tomorrow. So no, you can't redistribute my zombies. I am completely fine with AS dying. I don't have him as a scum read, but he'd die tomorrow anyway and contributes 0 in the grand scale of things. | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:35 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: acro, since when were you this bad :< it's really quite depressing Says the guy whose defense was "guys, don't kill me. I DON'T PLAY THIS BADLY AS SCUM" | ||
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Do that, (or substitute anybody else for AS if you prefer) | ||
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Acro: 11 zombie damage to Suck. Poster: 7 damage to Suck (ball lightning and grim lavamancer). Stutters: 2 damage to Aperture Rock: 7 damage to Aperture Nova: 4 damage to Aperture (+2 on bear and +2 on 2/2 Ninja) Result: both dead (barring Aperture casting lightning bolts). | ||
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Anyway, Healing Salve can gain him more life than we can deal tomorrow. Kill him. | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:07 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: why would prome hit a strong townread :o Why are you so opposed to dying? Is it because you're scum? | ||
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You clearly have Prom as a strong town read. You have me as a strong town read (I saw you say it). And you have Stutters as a strong town read. These are the three people who will live. If AS is scum he dies tonight. If Nova or Rock is scum, they die tomorrow. And unlike you, their decks don't gain nigh infinite life tomorrow WHY are you so fearful of dying? | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:14 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah I'm not that sure about that "attack pattern" you just made Clock I'll discuss it with Prome first. Ideally, I'd prefer dealing the 7 damage to Aperture myself, and then see if a Nova (or at worst Rock) kill can still happen instead of a Suck one /G Suck gains about 50 life tomorrow. If you are wrong about your town read on Suck, we are dead. A Rock or Nova kill cannot happen because 11 damage is rampaging in Suck's face. They are NOT going anywhere else. The END. If you want, I'll lock those 11 damage in right now. It's not going anywhere else. Rock and Nova are easy kills tomorrow, but there won't be a tomorrow, because Suck is scum. | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:17 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: i mean earlier you were saying i could kill you all, lol Words of War can take care of any survivors the turn after. You'll clearly be unkillable by damage, and AS is the only one who might be running a deck capable of stopping you. | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: i'm not fearful, its just bad play, because im evidently not mafia infinite life lol? how's that? It is not evident at all. And your continued insistence on living... despite having a TOWN read on the people who will survive? Scum | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:14 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah I'm not that sure about that "attack pattern" you just made Clock I'll discuss it with Prome first. Ideally, I'd prefer dealing the 7 damage to Aperture myself, and then see if a Nova (or at worst Rock) kill can still happen instead of a Suck one /G Here, I'll do the math: 12 damage on Aperture 11 damage on Suck That leaves 8 damage lying around. Guess what, you can kill Suck with that! It's not enough to kill anybody else. | ||
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Let me start with saying that if Marv is scum, he has played every dirty trick in the book. I said to Dandel at one point that I actually hoped we were wrong and that he was town, because I used to have respect for Marv and if he is scum playing this dirty, it is beyond reprehensible. However, Dandel replied that the same goes for either alignment and upon managing to get a little bit of sleep, I realize that Dandel is right: his personal attacks have been beyond reprehensible from either alignment. He has gone beyond the bounds of playing a fair game. He has pulled out every dirty trick in the debater's playbook: he is using appeals to emotion, ad hominem attacks and it feels more like an emotional war than a game. So far, I had enjoyed playing mafia. Even when I put way too much time into a game, the attacks have not become personal. Even when I have stressed over the game, it has been stress of anticipation. It has remained a battle of wits and while sometimes arguments have gotten out of hand, I have never felt assaulted before. This game, I have not enjoyed. Marv's attacks on my personal playstyle have been unrelentless. He has not refuted the things I have said. He hasn't explained why the things he has done are explainable from a town point of view, he has simply claimed he's a better player and anything that would look like a scum argument for a lesser mortal is not a scumtell from the magical Marv. Therefore, anything Acro or Dandel says must be because they are stupid or bad (the attacks on Dandel have been even more personal and I am unsure how he coped with this). So, I decided that, rather than show that Marv is scum, I would show you my track record from the last two games I played as town (before that I played 2 scum games and before that, you could claim I was in fact bad, but now we're talking about my newbie game 6 months ago) and let you (particularly counting on Prom and H1 here) judge whether I am stupid or bad. + Show Spoiler [Acro not bad] + Acme Mini Mafia: D1: I pulled a silly stunt that got a townie lynched. Yet my read was that that townie was town. My preferred lynch was Promethelax, based 100% on prplhz's play and it was primarily a lurker lynch. D2: Promethelax KNOWS what it is like to be on the bad side of a tunnel with me. Yet he argued his way out of it in two ways: first, he argued the points I had against him and showed why they were not scumtells. Second, he contributed actively as a town. Prom, I ask you, specifically, has Marv done either of these things this game? You are one of two players in this game who has played both of my previous games and should know me well enough that I can be argued out of a tunnel. I then argued back and forth a bit about who was scum, before pushing the lynch onto H1. H1 was scum that game. D3: Drazak had essentially claimed scum on D2 and got lynched for it. Not my case, and everybody had noticed it, so not much chance of being on the wrong side of the lynch. D4: I was killed by scum, but the case I made on risk.nuke at night got him lynched as the SK (I thought he was scum, but SK made sense too). CT: D1: election, so not much scumhunting. D2: I tried to argue town out of lynching scum... and into lynching a different scum. In fact, I had tunnel view on a third scum for most of the day, but dropped it later in the game due to an utterly brilliant (crazy) claim. D3,4,5: by now my D2 scumspect had a double red check on him (one by me), so easy lynch. D6,7: argued for lynching another scum. D8: lurker lynch on another scum (by now they were just lining up to be lynched). D9: not my case, but sheeped syllo to another scum lynch. D10: would have lynched another scum, but he derailed it onto a townie (while I was away for the weekend, I might add). D11: argued actively to get D10 scum lynched. D12: Lavos spawned, no more lynches. Now both H1 and Prom were in this game. In fact, so was Marv. They should both be able to attest to me not being a bad player. I had my suspicions at one point or another of both Prom and H1 in this game. Yet a bit of arguing made me see the error: I am not beyond seeing reason if someone shows how his behaviour is townie and puts in a townie effort. Now that may be the case, but maybe Acro is bad in this game! However: while Dandel and I are not the only ones to reach the conclusion that Xfire was scum on D1, we clearly did reach that conclusion. That puts us at 1/1 so far, which is clearly not a bad track record. Prom and Gonzaw, you may be right on your D1 scum too. However, for now I ask you to ALSO kill the scumspect of the guy with the track record of lynching scum. Even if he keeps getting derailed in flamewars and pointless arguments with that scumspect. Which brings me back to this game. All I ask of you is that you sheep me on this one, single, case. It isn't even to the exclusion of Gonzaw's case: we can kill BOTH. Marv has not contributed this game. Below I will quote all the weird scum-motivated actions he has not answered to. I will not claim I am 100% certain, because that is stupid, but at this point I don't even have to be any more. All I need to convince you of is that there is a reasonable chance that Marv is scum. Today is our last chance of killing him. With 9 mana tomorrow, he can almost certainly cast Utopia Sprawl and similar land enchants to give him more mana, culminating in him discarding 8 or 9 cards, which will give him 24-27 more life than he has now. That puts him beyond the point where we can kill him, and this play is repeatable the day after. If your town read on him is wrong, he will not be killable. If you believe Nova is scum, that is fine, you may be right. However, he is unkillable today. Unlike Suck, he can block one of the creatures attacking him, meaning that even if you were to have my Zombie support (which you do not), we cannot kill both Nova and Aperture today, unless Nova doesn't block (and if he doesn't block, then you already have your answer to whether he is scum or not). Same story for Rock. Please assist me in killing Suck today. I guarantee that if my tunnel has been wrong, we CAN kill both of them tomorrow. Just please kill Suck. + Show Spoiler [Suck is scum] + Marv's single most repeated defense is that when Marv is scummy he doesn't look scummy. To go back to burglars, when this was still all fun and games: this is like a burglar's fingerprints being all over a house. When he is brought in and confronted with the evidence, he says "but the fingerprints mean nothing, because when I burgle a house, I don't leave fingerprints". The fingerprints are there. Follow the evidence. Summary of the below:
Given that this is our last chance to stop Suck if he is scum, I hope you realize that this is enough evidence to warrant killing him, and not leaving him for tomorrow (when his deck explodes). On February 04 2013 21:19 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Okay. First this whole plan only has any chance of working if Xfire dies in the main phase, so lets make that happen. We currently just have Death Spark to help with that, but we'll use the Bazaar and if we draw something useful let you know. However, there is no reason not to blast Xfire with a healthy dose of 5 damage right now. Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. Add this to the reasons he's scum: he is fairly active this game. Ask him a question about the mtg side of things and he will pop in and join the discussion. Ask him about mafia and he says nothing. He doesn't want to tell anybody about his reads and the two cases he made so far are both bad: one is on a confirmed town, the other on what looks to me to be very likely town. He is not pushing his cases or making new ones. In SSB I remember iGrok being very adamant about pushing his scum reads (and pushing his plan). They were completely wrong, but he was actively pushing them and appeared invested in the thread. This game iGrok's main contributions are that any time the thread goes seriously south, he's in the middle of it. Greymist I have nothing on. He came back from holiday and has, insofar as I can see, done nothing, except for his half of the stutters analysis. Why not advising Xfire doesn't make him town: if I were scum I would advise Xfire to blow shit up at the end of the attack phase (before damage resolution of course). This has 2 advantages: the first is that town might spend extra resources in killing you and the second is that you know exactly how much damage you need to prevent. The disadvantage is that town might blow up your creatures before you can blow shit up, meaning you might need to sac more lands. Why Suck is scum You know what Suck's contribution to scumhunting has been this game? He has made a bad case against Nova. The combined forces of marv and snb have managed to do 1 thing: find a load of shit that is not indicative of alignment when looking at Nova. Marv has gone into full-on lurker mode. He is not pressuring anybody, despite actually being present for a lot of the game. SnB has done nothing. Even when absent, SnB as town phoneposts to say "dudes, I'm in England, don't lynch me because I don't have internet" and then gives a quick list of reads. As mafia, he straight up lurks (although he seems to have improved in WLIIA). Evidence: SSM and Caller - Remove Incognito. Now, would scum SnB have posted the plan for Xfire in the thread? Well, he told us: never assume your opponent is too stupid to not recognize the board possibilities. In this case a scum SnB expects town to already know what needed doing (blow up Xfire's shit and then just hope for the best). He didn't want to be forced to contribute to town by casting an enchant on Nova's land and thus told town the plan wouldn't work. This allowed him to follow his own plan and cast his own useful stuff. He also scored townie points for being the herald and noticing that shit. Marv flip flops on Xfire. He spends quite a bit of his time soft-defending Xfire. + Show Spoiler [Marv and Xfire] + Original stance on Xfire is to agree with the suspicions (my early D1 case and the followups). He doesn't add anything new, but says Xfire is "suspicious". Now, the rest: On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. At the time I just skipped over this post, and read it as being wrong. Now that we know xfire is scum, Marv is going on record here saying that xfire might be scum, but probably just wait to lynch him. Classic scum behaviour: wants the town credit when his mafia buddy flips, but wants to stall the lynch as long as possible. On January 31 2013 05:42 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Yeah, but here it's... Suck is scummy, maybe for this reason maybe not, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... In the last game he didn't have to promise future content, he was happy just to say "yeah kill these dudes". Here he feels the need to justify his absence and his read with future promises. My read on Stutters (slightly town) remains unchanged, and Crossfire seems less scummy for it. At least he made the effort to defend himself and make a case on someone, even though some of it was wrong, some of it was correct too - marvelbabe Huh? What does Stutters being town have to do with Xfire being town? Why randomly include the scumbuddy in this town read? On January 31 2013 06:18 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I take it from your attitude that you think Crossfire is 'surely' scum then, gonzaw? Town explanation: please clarify your stance. Scum explanation: mr. town leader, is it time to bus my scumbuddy? Would marv want that confirmation to make the decision? Finally something meta can help with. In Hero, Marv's stance on Adam is really non-committal. There's the "might be scum, but lets wait and see"... but then Palmar comes in, says Adam is scum and asks why Marv isn't voting for him. 2 pages later, he is (nothing of consequence happened in those 2 pages). Scum Marv does not just willy nilly bus his buddies, he needs to be sure he'll get town cred for doing so. On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness: gonz/Prome - blates town me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol) Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum. Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial. Ta-da! Heading rather fast towards giving Xfire a town read AFTER the meta case. Is Marv really bad enough to not realize that the metas match 100%? On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I presume you are referring to the Aperture case and the Nova burgler case, yes? Discrediting the case on Xfire. Shortly after that Xfire claimed scum. TLDR No scumhunting. Stand-offish about Xfire. Fitting SnB's scum meta. There are still some things that I think point to a town Suck, but honestly, if we can kill both Aperture and Suck, I am 95% sure we'll hit at least 1 scum. A quick blurb on why you should get your heads out of your asses regarding the CW-Xfire mutual bus thing. Xfire fucked up his sacrifice-defense. He screwed it up by taking out my Rootwalla and enchantment, instead of my Rootwalla and a Zombie. He took out what was probably the strongest card on the board FOR NO GOOD REASON (at least from a spot defense point of view). He was then forced to gimp himself even further to actually take out a zombie. This went WAY overboard on what was necessary to make it look like a two-way-bus and went straight into "I am doing as much damage as I possibly can to your board". I mean, Dandel and I talked it over in Skype and we reckoned a two-way-bus would have been a hilarious stunt, but it didn't actually happen. What happened was, we found scum and attacked him. Then he went nuts, claimed scum and fucked up the townie with the dangerous enchant. /Acro On February 05 2013 03:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Town Marv, in LIX, saw Stutters as town based on Stutters going along with a plan that would kill him. What would scum's reason be to go along with the plan? EXACTLY: to appear townie. Yet, he used Ockham's Razor and read Stutters as town. Correctly. Despite having him as a "possible scum" the whole game so far (until Toad pointed out that the voting was also strange for Stutters). Town Marv, in LIX, saw Austin as town because he could have taken himself out of the mayoral election, yet didn't. What would scum's reason be to run against his scumbuddy? EXACTLY: to appear townie. Yet, he used Ockham's Razor and read Austin as town. Correctly. Despite Austin being (apparently) on the wrong side of lynches all game long. Scum Marv is ignoring the same reasoning here in favour of saying Aperture is scum, because it will lynch a townie and probably prevent scum Marv from dying. Town Marv sees this kind of play and recognizes the townieness in it. Scum Marv doesn't want to admit that point, because he is next on the chopping block and needs more time. Scum Marv must die for his sins. On February 05 2013 03:53 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Dat scumslip! There is 1 scum left If that scum is us, why push this lynch away from the easiest fucking mislynch in the world? If that scum is NOT US, we are clearly not (intentionally) setting up a mislynch. However, if that scum is scum Marv he would really really like you to think so KILL IT WITH FIRE. OR ZOMBIES. OR BEARS. IN FACT, ALL OF THOSE On February 05 2013 08:15 Clockwork Hydra wrote: We aren't town because we made a case on Xfire. We know he was acting super scummy and several people realized it. However, if you were to click on our filter and read a few of our posts, you would realize how much nonsense your allegation is. Also, we're not "milking the xfire case". We are trying to kill scum. PS. If you think "milking the xfire case" is scummy, we present scum Marv: And he never even made a case on Xfire, just non-committally "agreed" to it. Taking credit for a scum lynch when you didn't do jack shit for it? Hell yeah, sign scum Marv up (this scumtell was brought to you by Dandel Ion, the best Ion). /Acro On February 05 2013 22:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Marv, what the hell do you want me to say to that: you look like scum, therefore you can't be? It's a non-sequitur. The case isn't based on meta, it's a case chaining together your scummy behaviour this game (the tiny bit of meta I invoked yesterday was to show that you're a good player, not to show you're scum). Your meta is not to look like scum as town either. You looked like town in CT. You looked like town in LIX. You don't look like town here. Saying that you're not playing anything like your scum meta is irrelevant when you're not playing anything like your town meta either. /Acro On February 06 2013 07:13 Clockwork Hydra wrote: While you have calmed down today and seem resigned to your fate, you haven't done anything today to make me think you're town after playing like you have a mafia agenda all game (deliberately phrased carefully so as not to anger the rageMarv). You say it's because you were trolling and not trying, but that doesn't explain your hilariously bad case on Nova. It doesn't explain your refusal to give town credit to AS for accelerating Xfire's death when there was no reason to do it as scum. It doesn't explain why SnB is playing like his lurky scumself and not his insightful townself. Saying SnB is afk, when he is playing the game enough to drop by and play his enchantments, is not a valid reason. SnB dropped in once a day in SSM too (and flipped scum at the end of it). Saying you don't care about the game doesn't excuse you pushing targets for obviously bad reasons. /Acro On February 06 2013 08:06 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Here you express confidence in Gonzaw's belief that town will win. Here you agree that wanting to live for the sake of living is not a particularly townie thing to do. Yet here: You express the desire to live despite earlier expressing confidence that town can do just fine without you. You know who wants to live for the sake of living? Scum does. If you are, in fact, town (nobody should believe this), then you should rest in the happy knowledge that there is no way AS, Suck and Nova are all outlasting Stutters, Rock and me. Die like a happy townie, or as a fighting scum. What you SHOULD be doing as a townie is finding us the scum to kill instead of you. But no. You want to kill other people, regardless of their alignment. We kill scum Marv On February 06 2013 08:11 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Suck is more scum. The defense is the same as marv's, but snb did his version of it, called "I'm bad as either alignment". So that makes him twice as scummy alone. Add to that that marv doesn't suck as town, so it's more lies. I dunno if nova is good as scum, if he's town this game, it doesn't look like a hard meta to copy tbh. Or he's delusional. Whatever. Not that that's even a big point. I prefer killing the scummy liar that suddenly has a weird interest in staying alive after doing a fake ragequit just yesterday. ~dandel On February 06 2013 09:01 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Marv, here's your lie. I myself wouldn't use the word lie, but you are definititely twisting the truth. Also thanks for making me go over the beginning of the game again, I found a GEM What you said: What you did, in chronological order (and cutting out SnB's trolly savannah stuff). + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Thread entry. Note the bolded part. For the record, Dandel wasn't, he was stating the absolute fucking obvious. + Show Spoiler [Dandel's followup] + On January 29 2013 11:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Merely stating the truth. What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course. Also, you don't post much. What gives? ~dandel Irrelevant to the case On January 29 2013 11:49 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I haven't posted much because I literally found out the deck s&b submitted two hours ago. In case you aren't mafia, here's a pro-tip: don't tell mafia what to do to make you consider them as townies. It should be fucking obvious, but here I am saying it. On January 29 2013 11:58 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: It wasn't a bad post at all. It was a good post. It's not my fault if you're too stupid to comprehend this. The intentions behind my post were perfectly clear. I find it suspicious. Wait.. WHAT? Telling mafia what to do is suspicious? So telling mafia what to do makes you... mafia? Imagine that! Stop! Dandel! You are giving yourself ideas you would otherwise never have had! A badtell? Hell yes. If Dandel had actually been telling mafia a non-obvious thing they could do to make themselves look townie, this would be bad. But how is it suspicious? I'll tell you how: scum Marv didn't think this through, saw someone make a bad play and tried to cash in on it for some cheap scumhunting points. Now, on with what I was actually doing. The first thing you did in the thread was clearly not to "agree" with a crossfire case, because there wasn't even a crossfire case. The first thing you did was also not to attack Aperture, but rather to attack Clockwork. Lets continue. There's quite a bit more on the above little thing, and a load of fluff. Then come the second and third "things" he does in the thread: + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 12:15 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: No, he seems to be posting too much to be mafia right now. I mean, he could be trying to take some weird control as mafia, but probably not. Second thing he does is give a town read on Poster. On January 30 2013 05:00 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: well that attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, dear. what did you think of s&b's policy post? Ignores scumhunting in favour of deflection. Finally, the 4th thing he does is to agree with the Xfire case and "attack" AS (if this pressure can be called an attack): + Show Spoiler [post] + On January 30 2013 05:08 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Yeah, I can't add too much more to what's been said about Crossfire, I generally agree. I especially noted how Crossfire called himself a magic noob (like me) but then proceeded to wade in with some strange Magic waffle (unlike me). I'm also not sure whether iGrok is on menopause, or maybe mafia: Given he said this, all he's done is shout at people. This post from Grey rubbed me the wrong way, although I'm not sure how warranted I am to think so: Like, gosh guys, I'm so excited to be playing, except I can't play for another 3 days yet, so definitely keep me around till then guys, right? However, that thing he is so proud of? He recants the suspicion on his scumbuddy about 24 hours later: + Show Spoiler [xfire not scum] + On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. And THAT is his official opinion until Xfire claims scum. TLDR: claims he "agreed" with the Xfire case, whereas he actually spent the important part (attack phase, where we could actually do damage to scumspects) of T1 claiming Xfire was newbie town, not scum. Gem: telling mafia what to do is a badtell, not a scumtell. Marv is a veteran and knows that, yet he was suspicious of Dandel for "telling mafia what to do". That's because scum Marv wanted to quickly cash in on some bad play and discredit a townie in the process. Scum Marv must die /Acro Addendum to this last one: the post cited is by SnB, but Marv later in the day corroborates that he shares this opinion. | ||
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On February 06 2013 13:37 iGrok wrote: My deck would be able to deal with him if it didn't get shafted by random discards. Nope, I'm pretty much unable to affect the rest of the game other than drawing forks, and maybe making a couple goblins (goblin storm isn't my wincon before you even ask). I am really confused though. Clock why are you suddenly dropping rock as a target? I mean, I don't think he's scum, but its weird that you made a really strong case and then dropped it within a day. OR am I missing something? You're missing that all of that was about tomorrow. I would choose Rock as the secondary target over you, but I am not going to fight town if everybody wants to flip you. Fighting with town about 1 target is enough. | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:01 RockHydra wrote: ok.. that was more snarky then necessary anywayz... I read something about attacking AS. I think I can get on board with that. They haven't contributed much. I will wait on my other head. Also, I'd do some reading up on AS tonight. /zebezt Can I convince you to attack Suck with me right now? Poster, Nova and Stutters can take care of AS. /Acro | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:52 Acrofales wrote: Okay, making my zombies stomp him in the game thread now. | ||
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Also, you are also single-handedly responsible for destroying any and all fun I had playing in this game. Thanks for that. It's not even because of the insults either, I'm not new to the internet. Whatever, this can wait for the postgame. Which is surely close to appearing. I hope you're flipping scum, because if you're like that as town, ooooh boy. Well, have fun pissing around some more, I'm outta here. See you guys in the evening. ~dandel | ||
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On February 06 2013 21:23 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: right. I'm not saying i've been a model of good behaviour or anything. i feel pretty bad for what i said to dandel which is why i apologised in thread. but if you're town and being tunnelled by someone else for literally about 100 of their posts, then yeah, i'm gonna lash out and call you bad. have i even done anything else than call you bad, acro? are you that thin-skinned? Has the postgame discussion started already? I'll see your flip before I reply. Here's what I said to Syllo, and that's all I'll say about it until postgame: Atm i'm just angry at him. if he flips town he's a douche, played terribly and refused to just admit it and play normally from then on. If he flips scum, he's a douche, played terribly, and tried to pull all the dirty manipulative tricks he could think of to avoid a lynch. Either way, i don't feel much like playing with him in another game That also means I don't feel much like continuing to play with you in this game. Dandel feels differently, but I know he's also not enjoying the game anymore. /Acro | ||
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See you all at the flip. | ||
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