EPTOn February 03 2013 04:31 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Regarding my "findings" of Xfire, it seems Nova fits it more nicely.
As in, he does nothing on T2, but out of a sudden then starts being suspicious of Xfire and even ignores my case on Aperture. Could be coincidence though
Nova hasn't done anything other than make a case on Suck, at least that's the only thing I remember him doing.
However Suck seems to be kind of absent lately, and hasn't chimed in on the "2nd scum" discussion in a long time
Marv, this is too lazy, even for you
/G
Regarding my "findings" of Xfire, it seems Nova fits it more nicely.
As in, he does nothing on T2, but out of a sudden then starts being suspicious of Xfire and even ignores my case on Aperture. Could be coincidence though
Nova hasn't done anything other than make a case on Suck, at least that's the only thing I remember him doing.
However Suck seems to be kind of absent lately, and hasn't chimed in on the "2nd scum" discussion in a long time
Marv, this is too lazy, even for you
/G
I think you may have missed this post:
On February 01 2013 15:25 Nova_Terra wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I find this case to also have good points, especially in how he completely forgets about bin, and how greymist seems to not exist in the manner of marv from last game.
I agree and feel that Crossfire being scum makes sense. An important point that we didnt have before was his meta, which definitely seems to show differences between his town play and this.
I am more suspicious of Xfire out of those two, and would prefer that we go for him instead of aperture, who i feel that we need more discussion on.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 01 2013 05:29 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I am a man of my word
Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088&user=296336
I mentioned a little thought experiment to Prome earlier (as soon as this Attack Phase started):
Let's ignore Aperture for now. He has 0 pressure on him, but isn't doing anything productive.
Cool, let's see what happens; but most of all, let's predict what could happen.
Now, imagine he's town. He's doing shit, and under no pressure. Hmm, this makes it the perfect opportunity for scum to jump on him and cast suspicion on him wouldn't it? Easiest way to appear you are scumhunting and contributing, and cast doubt on a town player that's under no pressure whatsoever.
*time goes on*
Well, it seems nobody did this, other than CH pressuring him a little bit.
Scum always pay attention to every townie in the game, so surely they paid attention to Aperture. By not going against him, then it can only mean they didn't want to go against him for some reason. Townies were just misled and forgot about him, but scum do not.
But what if he's scum? Surely those "misled" townies would still be ignoring him, but unless his scumbuddy wants to bus him, he would ignore him as well too wouldn't him?
Now we are getting somewhere...
Like I said, I am a man of my word. I said that we should let Aperture be and see what he does when he's:
Well, and thus I followed this advice I made myself, and apparently everybody else did.
Now, what did Aperture do with all these things we did for him?: absolutely nothing
Let's dwell a little bit deeper in his play though:
1. Scumhunting
I already said this thing made me suspicious of him.
But it makes me even more suspicious of him now.
Back then, he said "I'd be scumhunting" to the question "What will you be doing with this turn?".
However, instead of actually trying to scumhunt, he just said he'd be scumhunting "in the future". This was scummy as fuck, but I let it pass a little bit, since he's iGrok so maybe that's how he plays.
However.....he certainly lied. He promised he'd be scumhunting this turn, but he didn't. Like...at all.
"But he made an analysis on Bin! He was scumhunting!"
Well, let's see his "analysis" shall we?
Wow, seems like a "great" thoughtful analysis does it?
Except it isn't.
First, his "spreadsheet analysis" is obviously bogus. He went through every single post of Bin, and just put a little tag on it. "Fluff" or "Wrong".
That is not analysis, and is fucking easy to do as scum, it's just mechanical.
Next his "tells".
He did seem to try a little bit to analyze Bin, but what his points were not that alignment indicative (Oats being "aggressive", the "deck lies", etc).
Not even that, but apparently iGrok has this "system" for a while. It's fucking easy for him to use it as scum, I mean, it's a blueprint for scumhunting. As scum he doesn't have to do anything, just let this scumhunting mechanism scumhunt instead of him.
He can just check every single post of someone and let his "Class Tell" system rate it, and then post the conclusions.
It needs absolutely no effort from him, and no actual scumhunting, he already has the "scumhunting" done for him by the system.
More "scumhunting"
Okay, let's ignore that "analysis" then. What did he do later? Check his filter.
He keeps arguing with Bin about the "contradictions" in Oat's play about Mind Aglow apparently. I won't discuss this, it may be valid it may be not. I certainly don't think it's that alignment-indicative
However, check the 3rd page of his filter......he stops
He just suddenly stops giving a fuck about Bin.
This makes it think that maybe he's changing his mind about Bin? Well he never says, and even contradicts this:
I thought this was a joke, but I don't know anymore.
Aperture's only read this whole game was Bin. He heavily attacked him and pressured him with that giant "analysis" of his.
Yet, then he completely forgets about him, never pressures him at all, not even when it's obvious nobody else thinks he's scum.
Then he posts that stuff above like he still thinks Bin is scum? Wtf?
He has no mention of Bin at all, which means he doesn't give a shit about Bin.
He doesn't give a shit about scumhunting, even though he promised he'd be doing early on D1 when asked about it
2. Talk about Hydras
Check out these posts:
He apparently believes in the "there is scum between hydras".
Not only that, he believes we should focus on the hydras.
That's perfect!.......so?
Where is HIS focus on hydras?
There is none, not even on Bin who he suspected earlier in the Main Phase!
He talks and talks about focusing on hydras but doesn't do shit about it. Again, he's not following up with what he says people should do!
Just like when he said he'd be "scumhunting" !
3. Reaction to Threats
Let me bring this post again:
I thought I was pretty clear with this.
I assume Aperture saw it as well.
Now, how would a townie react to posts like this that basically state they will kill you unless you do something?
You do something of course.
Like I said before, if that guy keeps pressuring you and attacking you, maybe you won't have the time/effort/will to do something, but like I said that's not what happened: I and others gave Aperture completely freedom to do whatever he wanted
Look at his filter again, and tell me if this is how a townie would play after being pressured and "heavily" FoSed in early game. Specially a "vet" like iGrok.
4. Greymist
Short entry here: There is no Greymist.
Like at all. Reminds me of marv in the previous game.
Yeah it may be true he's in Italy working or something, but I thought he could have posted something on his phone or talked with iGrok or something
His complete absence strikes me bad. This isn't a big point anyways, you can ignore it
5. Fluff and Blending in
Look at his posts from this Attack Phase. They are all trying to blend in, even if it doesn't make sense for him to post stuff like that
Like....this feels so out of place it's not funny
Aperture doesn't do shit at all, yet thinks it's important to address the issue about Crossfire's card?
It's so out of place.
And again, these posts seem like he's blending in, posting about what's "cool" at the moment to appear he's active
He also "promises" some analysis on Xfire and Nova but says he'll do it after work.
I guess Suck should instantly think he's scum for not following up with it wouldn't he?
The point is that you don't "promise" to do something like this in a remote future when it's already almost 72 hours into the game.
6. Lack of suspicion
This comes with what I said earlier.
If he's town, why would everybody just let him be? If he's town he's playing so "bad", that a scum is bounded to attack him at some point
I mean, remember the last MTG game. Greymist "played bad", and scum Toad jumped on him very fucking easily and tunneled him until he died
I would have thought at least 1 scum would try to do something here
But no, EVERYBODY IGNORES HIM, EVEN SCUM.
This is very weird if he's town, but not if he's scum.
7. Fake "Rage"
Ah, the "rage" post:
Okay, this came out of nowhere. We discussed with Prome about this, and he said it could be genuine or not, but it's still weird as fuck. Many people ignored it but I'm putting attention on it again.
What's with this aggression? Where the fuck does it come from? Out of nowhere
Why is he saying shit like "I thought your head was less far up your ass than everybody elses" to people completely unrelated to his "rage"?
Remember, his rage apparently was against me+Prome for having a 6 page filter at the time and posting every thought of ours, thus making it harder for him to read the thread
So why the fuck does he get angry at Bin? It doesn't make sense
Like I said it doesn't make sense to be this angry out of nowhere for a stupid reason that's not even a big deal in this game (me+Prome hadn't spammed the thread that much, we didn't feel anybody would get angry at us spamming yet).
One thing that catches my attention though: this rage never happens again
Me+Prome have a 10 page filter, and it's "N1" (by normal game standards).
Apparently Aperture's "rage" about "everybody ruining his fun" came only once, and then it doesn't matter at all?
I mean, me+Prome are still "posting a lot" and "posting every thought that comes to us", so why isn't he getting more angry at us?
Well, remember the time he made the "rage" post: People were pressuring him.
CH thought he was scum because he was so opposed to Minds Aglow for "bad" reasons or something
Others thought he was scum for other reasons
So now he "vents" his frustration.....on me and Prome about how we post a lot
Now that nobody is pressuring hi, apparently he's all fine and dandy with me and Prome posting all of our thoughts every single time.
This inconsistency in him is scummy as fuck, specially how he's "angry" about a completely unrelated issue when he's pressured, yet when he's not pressured that issue apparently doesn't matter at all for him
Conclusion:
Kill him as soon as possible
Now I'm attacking him for 1 damage
I hope when Crossfire gets here he attacks him with 3 damage (well...if he's town at least).
Tomorrow I want him dead.
I have 3 Chain Lightnings right now, which I can use tomorrow when I cast a Mountain.
That means 9 damage to Aperture, leaving him at 10-7 HP (depending on whether Cross attacks him). I guess other players can easily kill him tomorrow if he has that low HP.
P.S: He could put another Mountain and get 2 red mana to redirect my Chain Lightning, but that makes him open for attacks since he won't be able to cast anything
Like I said, I am a man of my word.
I said I'd leave him alone and let him do his thing. If by the end of D1 (or N1 now, hell I even gave him more time to do shit than I said I would) he didn't do anything, we would kill him
That's precisely what I will strive to do.
Hope you guys join me, or at the very least discuss this shit
##Attack Aperture Science with Grim Lavamancer
/gonzaw
I am a man of my word
Aperture Science
Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088&user=296336
I mentioned a little thought experiment to Prome earlier (as soon as this Attack Phase started):
Let's ignore Aperture for now. He has 0 pressure on him, but isn't doing anything productive.
Cool, let's see what happens; but most of all, let's predict what could happen.
Now, imagine he's town. He's doing shit, and under no pressure. Hmm, this makes it the perfect opportunity for scum to jump on him and cast suspicion on him wouldn't it? Easiest way to appear you are scumhunting and contributing, and cast doubt on a town player that's under no pressure whatsoever.
*time goes on*
Well, it seems nobody did this, other than CH pressuring him a little bit.
Scum always pay attention to every townie in the game, so surely they paid attention to Aperture. By not going against him, then it can only mean they didn't want to go against him for some reason. Townies were just misled and forgot about him, but scum do not.
But what if he's scum? Surely those "misled" townies would still be ignoring him, but unless his scumbuddy wants to bus him, he would ignore him as well too wouldn't him?
Now we are getting somewhere...
Like I said, I am a man of my word. I said that we should let Aperture be and see what he does when he's:
- Under no pressure: Thus he won't have to spend most of his time defending himself and answering questions and the like. For instance what happened to Greymist last MTG game
- Not raging: Thus he can't hide his activity behind rage posts, or say he's "frustrated", etc. He can't hide his play behind his rage.
Well, and thus I followed this advice I made myself, and apparently everybody else did.
Now, what did Aperture do with all these things we did for him?: absolutely nothing
Let's dwell a little bit deeper in his play though:
1. Scumhunting
I already said this thing made me suspicious of him.
But it makes me even more suspicious of him now.
Back then, he said "I'd be scumhunting" to the question "What will you be doing with this turn?".
However, instead of actually trying to scumhunt, he just said he'd be scumhunting "in the future". This was scummy as fuck, but I let it pass a little bit, since he's iGrok so maybe that's how he plays.
However.....he certainly lied. He promised he'd be scumhunting this turn, but he didn't. Like...at all.
"But he made an analysis on Bin! He was scumhunting!"
Well, let's see his "analysis" shall we?
Wow, seems like a "great" thoughtful analysis does it?
Except it isn't.
First, his "spreadsheet analysis" is obviously bogus. He went through every single post of Bin, and just put a little tag on it. "Fluff" or "Wrong".
That is not analysis, and is fucking easy to do as scum, it's just mechanical.
Next his "tells".
He did seem to try a little bit to analyze Bin, but what his points were not that alignment indicative (Oats being "aggressive", the "deck lies", etc).
Not even that, but apparently iGrok has this "system" for a while. It's fucking easy for him to use it as scum, I mean, it's a blueprint for scumhunting. As scum he doesn't have to do anything, just let this scumhunting mechanism scumhunt instead of him.
He can just check every single post of someone and let his "Class Tell" system rate it, and then post the conclusions.
It needs absolutely no effort from him, and no actual scumhunting, he already has the "scumhunting" done for him by the system.
More "scumhunting"
Okay, let's ignore that "analysis" then. What did he do later? Check his filter.
He keeps arguing with Bin about the "contradictions" in Oat's play about Mind Aglow apparently. I won't discuss this, it may be valid it may be not. I certainly don't think it's that alignment-indicative
However, check the 3rd page of his filter......he stops
He just suddenly stops giving a fuck about Bin.
This makes it think that maybe he's changing his mind about Bin? Well he never says, and even contradicts this:
I thought this was a joke, but I don't know anymore.
Aperture's only read this whole game was Bin. He heavily attacked him and pressured him with that giant "analysis" of his.
Yet, then he completely forgets about him, never pressures him at all, not even when it's obvious nobody else thinks he's scum.
Then he posts that stuff above like he still thinks Bin is scum? Wtf?
He has no mention of Bin at all, which means he doesn't give a shit about Bin.
He doesn't give a shit about scumhunting, even though he promised he'd be doing early on D1 when asked about it
2. Talk about Hydras
Check out these posts:
He apparently believes in the "there is scum between hydras".
Not only that, he believes we should focus on the hydras.
That's perfect!.......so?
Where is HIS focus on hydras?
There is none, not even on Bin who he suspected earlier in the Main Phase!
He talks and talks about focusing on hydras but doesn't do shit about it. Again, he's not following up with what he says people should do!
Just like when he said he'd be "scumhunting" !
3. Reaction to Threats
Let me bring this post again:
I thought I was pretty clear with this.
I assume Aperture saw it as well.
Now, how would a townie react to posts like this that basically state they will kill you unless you do something?
You do something of course.
Like I said before, if that guy keeps pressuring you and attacking you, maybe you won't have the time/effort/will to do something, but like I said that's not what happened: I and others gave Aperture completely freedom to do whatever he wanted
Look at his filter again, and tell me if this is how a townie would play after being pressured and "heavily" FoSed in early game. Specially a "vet" like iGrok.
4. Greymist
Short entry here: There is no Greymist.
Like at all. Reminds me of marv in the previous game.
Yeah it may be true he's in Italy working or something, but I thought he could have posted something on his phone or talked with iGrok or something
His complete absence strikes me bad. This isn't a big point anyways, you can ignore it
5. Fluff and Blending in
Look at his posts from this Attack Phase. They are all trying to blend in, even if it doesn't make sense for him to post stuff like that
Like....this feels so out of place it's not funny
Aperture doesn't do shit at all, yet thinks it's important to address the issue about Crossfire's card?
It's so out of place.
And again, these posts seem like he's blending in, posting about what's "cool" at the moment to appear he's active
He also "promises" some analysis on Xfire and Nova but says he'll do it after work.
I guess Suck should instantly think he's scum for not following up with it wouldn't he?
The point is that you don't "promise" to do something like this in a remote future when it's already almost 72 hours into the game.
6. Lack of suspicion
This comes with what I said earlier.
If he's town, why would everybody just let him be? If he's town he's playing so "bad", that a scum is bounded to attack him at some point
I mean, remember the last MTG game. Greymist "played bad", and scum Toad jumped on him very fucking easily and tunneled him until he died
I would have thought at least 1 scum would try to do something here
But no, EVERYBODY IGNORES HIM, EVEN SCUM.
This is very weird if he's town, but not if he's scum.
7. Fake "Rage"
Ah, the "rage" post:
Okay, this came out of nowhere. We discussed with Prome about this, and he said it could be genuine or not, but it's still weird as fuck. Many people ignored it but I'm putting attention on it again.
What's with this aggression? Where the fuck does it come from? Out of nowhere
Why is he saying shit like "I thought your head was less far up your ass than everybody elses" to people completely unrelated to his "rage"?
Remember, his rage apparently was against me+Prome for having a 6 page filter at the time and posting every thought of ours, thus making it harder for him to read the thread
So why the fuck does he get angry at Bin? It doesn't make sense
Like I said it doesn't make sense to be this angry out of nowhere for a stupid reason that's not even a big deal in this game (me+Prome hadn't spammed the thread that much, we didn't feel anybody would get angry at us spamming yet).
One thing that catches my attention though: this rage never happens again
Me+Prome have a 10 page filter, and it's "N1" (by normal game standards).
Apparently Aperture's "rage" about "everybody ruining his fun" came only once, and then it doesn't matter at all?
I mean, me+Prome are still "posting a lot" and "posting every thought that comes to us", so why isn't he getting more angry at us?
Well, remember the time he made the "rage" post: People were pressuring him.
CH thought he was scum because he was so opposed to Minds Aglow for "bad" reasons or something
Others thought he was scum for other reasons
So now he "vents" his frustration.....on me and Prome about how we post a lot
Now that nobody is pressuring hi, apparently he's all fine and dandy with me and Prome posting all of our thoughts every single time.
This inconsistency in him is scummy as fuck, specially how he's "angry" about a completely unrelated issue when he's pressured, yet when he's not pressured that issue apparently doesn't matter at all for him
Conclusion:
Kill him as soon as possible
Now I'm attacking him for 1 damage
I hope when Crossfire gets here he attacks him with 3 damage (well...if he's town at least).
Tomorrow I want him dead.
I have 3 Chain Lightnings right now, which I can use tomorrow when I cast a Mountain.
That means 9 damage to Aperture, leaving him at 10-7 HP (depending on whether Cross attacks him). I guess other players can easily kill him tomorrow if he has that low HP.
P.S: He could put another Mountain and get 2 red mana to redirect my Chain Lightning, but that makes him open for attacks since he won't be able to cast anything
Like I said, I am a man of my word.
I said I'd leave him alone and let him do his thing. If by the end of D1 (or N1 now, hell I even gave him more time to do shit than I said I would) he didn't do anything, we would kill him
That's precisely what I will strive to do.
Hope you guys join me, or at the very least discuss this shit
##Attack Aperture Science with Grim Lavamancer
/gonzaw
I find this case to also have good points, especially in how he completely forgets about bin, and how greymist seems to not exist in the manner of marv from last game.
On February 01 2013 05:53 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Okay. My play this attack phase has been mainly focused on getting iGrok, Marv and SnB to actually do stuff. It was a dismal failure and they need to be looked at again tomorrow. However, they're not the most likely scum in the thread.
The main reason we didn't post this earlier is because we really want Xfire to attack with his shitty little creatures, so he takes the full 9 damage, rather than being able to block and reduce our killing power tomorrow. We had no real need for anybody else's input on this, because both of us came to the conclusion that Xfire is almost certainly scum independently of one another's reads.
We went over his filter and noticed a number of things
1. The utter lack of contribution.
2. Defensive and apologetic posts excusing him from contributing.
3. Anger about the length of the thread.
This gave us scum vibes, but we needed comparison material. The alternative was that he is just a really bad townie with no clue. However, I have never seen a clearer meta case in my life.
In Xfire's town games (like PU or WLIIA) he contributes to scumhunting, is having fun and joking with his fellow players (as Gonzaw rightly noticed). What Gonzaw forgot is to look at Xfire's scum games. There are 2. Mario Mini and Newbie XIII.
Dandel's writeup (using just Mario Mini, but the same shit is in Newbie XIII):
Acro adds: the post that we quoted in that list completes the trifecta of Xfire's shit that he does as scum and not as town: wine about the length of the thread.
In closing: Xfire is scum and will be ripped apart by zombies
![[image loading]](http://tbivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TheWalkingDead_S2_ep01_Z04.jpg_cmyk.jpg)
Zombie token feasting on Xfire's ribs.
Okay. My play this attack phase has been mainly focused on getting iGrok, Marv and SnB to actually do stuff. It was a dismal failure and they need to be looked at again tomorrow. However, they're not the most likely scum in the thread.
The main reason we didn't post this earlier is because we really want Xfire to attack with his shitty little creatures, so he takes the full 9 damage, rather than being able to block and reduce our killing power tomorrow. We had no real need for anybody else's input on this, because both of us came to the conclusion that Xfire is almost certainly scum independently of one another's reads.
Xfire is scum and will die by Zombie Apocalypse
We went over his filter and noticed a number of things
1. The utter lack of contribution.
2. Defensive and apologetic posts excusing him from contributing.
3. Anger about the length of the thread.
This gave us scum vibes, but we needed comparison material. The alternative was that he is just a really bad townie with no clue. However, I have never seen a clearer meta case in my life.
In Xfire's town games (like PU or WLIIA) he contributes to scumhunting, is having fun and joking with his fellow players (as Gonzaw rightly noticed). What Gonzaw forgot is to look at Xfire's scum games. There are 2. Mario Mini and Newbie XIII.
Dandel's writeup (using just Mario Mini, but the same shit is in Newbie XIII):
- lurks/doesn't do shit, cites being busy RL as a reason:On November 14 2012 10:54 Crossfire99 wrote:
I'd like to apologize to everyone for not being here until now. Real life's been crazy busy, and I've only now had a break to play some mafia. It looks like we're having a productive day 1 because there's almost 40 pages I have to go through. Any tips for going through it? I am planning on going through all of it before I post my reads on people, unless you think it's better to read it in chunks and post my thoughts on those chunks. Yeah I really want all of your opinions on this because I've never been so far behind in any game before. I mean this game has been longer than the total length of most of my games I think. It's actually kinda intimidating... - asks the thread (=town) to do his work for him. wants to appear interested while not actually doing anything probably?
See the same post as above: "please summarize the first game for me" - weaksauce cases Note that the second one comes with a bonus apology for not doing shit.
- being a (winy: edited in by Acro) bitch about his supposed RL issues (internet) here and here
Basically he was a whiny fuck about not being able to play "as much as he would like", in mario due to his internet supposedly blacking out on him, in mtg too lazy to even invent a reason, just says he's busy RL.
Acro adds: the post that we quoted in that list completes the trifecta of Xfire's shit that he does as scum and not as town: wine about the length of the thread.
In closing: Xfire is scum and will be ripped apart by zombies
Zombie token feasting on Xfire's ribs.
I agree and feel that Crossfire being scum makes sense. An important point that we didnt have before was his meta, which definitely seems to show differences between his town play and this.
I am more suspicious of Xfire out of those two, and would prefer that we go for him instead of aperture, who i feel that we need more discussion on.
, I want these answered before I wake up though ):
we're cool. Time to get back to reading so I can answer your questions in an informed manner.
)
