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On February 01 2013 03:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 01 2013 02:52 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Suck, when Stutters has made a greater contribution to the thread than you, things are starting to look pretty bad. wait what? which filter have I been looking at, stutters hasn't done shit to me Stutters, imho, is one of the towniest players in the game. That is, imho a lot more valuable than SnB's half-arsed read of Nova based on almost exclusively bad tells. /Acro
CH I'm a bit curious about this. In eight minutes I go from being used as an insult (I'm doing more than he is, which is bad) to you seeing me as one of the towniest players. Why such a sudden switch?
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So you think that the two most likely scum are both single players (8% chance if random, unlikely if not random)? you would also attack him over XF who you just said you were going to make a case on?
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Uh, unless I top deck something crazy or the global card helps, 0. I didn't get a good hand to ramp with and fucked up hardcore by not mulliganing. Since there is no 2nd main I can't drop a monster today and without the t1 haste I can't do damage. turn 3 I should be looking at 4-6.
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The case against aperture is good however two things concern me about it. First is your timing although this is a very minor point because with how few attackers there are. You said in your case that you had already given him extra time so why not post it twelve hours into the phase instead of less than an hour before the deadline?
The other is that we still haven't seen grey and earlier you guys made it sound like iGrok trolls early. I'd have to check his meta for that but I don't have the time at the moment.
I'll look into it, but I think cross is so obviously scum he must die first.
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On February 01 2013 06:29 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:I forgot that if you block a creature that creature dies  Fucking MTG rules lol Anyways, I think Crossfire should not block your zombies, if not it'll give town less KP tomorrow. If he ninja-blocks again in the thread right before the deadline I'll take it as a scum claim again, because that'd be getting ridiculous /G
Not quite (unless this is changed and I don't remember it from the rules for the mafia gain. 2/2 attacks 0/3
0/3 turns to 0/1 until turn end and the zombie stays at 2/2
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On February 01 2013 08:12 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I am not sure if this global card would benefit us that much.
Only Rock has "useless permanents" we can use to destroy shit as far as I know
/G
I was hoping for a colorless mana or something lol.
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Negative, can't today unfortunately. I can drop a bear cub (2/2 2 mana drop) or Howling Mine (+1 card/drawstep 2 drop) or I can Naturalize something. That's it. 
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ebwop That was @ ThePoster
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Well I can either drop the mine or the creature, whichever you think is more worthwhile. We can wait until Aperture gets back though.
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catching up now. I'm awake
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On February 01 2013 10:01 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Stutters: don't you have any giant growth (or one of the billions of giant growth clones) you can cast on one of the creatures attacking Xfire? Or some enchantment?
@Rock: do you have mana for a ninja and equipping the shuriken on it?
I have a instant that's +1/+1 trample infect for all creatures I control, nothing that just blanket affects the board though.
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On February 02 2013 00:58 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:54 Stutters695 wrote:On February 01 2013 10:01 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Stutters: don't you have any giant growth (or one of the billions of giant growth clones) you can cast on one of the creatures attacking Xfire? Or some enchantment?
@Rock: do you have mana for a ninja and equipping the shuriken on it? I have a instant that's +1/+1 trample infect for all creatures I control, nothing that just blanket affects the board though. I'm assuming Triumph of the Hordes, in which case you don't have 4 mana anyways. I really do not understand your deck at all. ~Hopeless
err sorry, wrong one. I've got a gaeas anthem too. I fucked up by not mulliganing and I thought we had time between the attack phase and when we had to discard. I was going to drop my cultivate and bear cub or howling mine, but since I missed the discard step I lost cultivate via rng. The deck revolves around ramping up to 4 mana then throwing out mass bears to create tokens and using some artifact that's +1 to each bear/bear played after the artifact is down. other cards are mostly enchants that bump their power also.
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Basically I can drop a 2/2 today for some kp at the risk of developing even slower than I already am, or can be creatureless until t4 but help everyone develop. I really piloted this poorly t1 :/
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Yes, but there is summoning sickness since it isn't t1 anymore.
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On February 02 2013 07:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Oh and for that, Stutters should make bear now.
Go stutters! The entire game* hangs on your ability to make a bear!
*slight exaggeration
~dandel Once again, I disagree with my hydra head. I think Stutters should do what he wants. If he thinks a 2/2 bear helps town, then great. If something else, great too: he's the only one who knows his deck and how it can contribute. Word of caution, though: I'm not sure a howling mine is a good idea, because we have to consider the serious situation where Aperture is scum and will "go off" tomorrow and deck us all, play an infinite number of Eldrazi or do something else fucked up. The presence of Epic Experiment AND Mind's Desire in his GY point towards a pretty funky combo where he just dumps down a giant list of instants and sorceries which ends in 200 damage to everybody else in the game. "I win". Dandel was saying we should blow up his braids. I don't quite see what 2 red mana in his upkeep can do (can only play instants, not sorceries), but it's something to keep under consideration. I WOULD like Aperture to tell us how his deck is supposed to work and what he needs to "go off", so we can estimate the threat he likely poses. /Acro
Back, catching up. That's a good point about the mine. Those are the only two things I can do anything with. I'll drop the bear and if we decide his two mana is a threat I can sack the bear since I'm so much less developed and likely to influence the game other than by having you guys know I'm town. Preferably I can keep it in Peru and have it at least as a 3/3 tomorrow.
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On February 02 2013 05:18 Aperture Science wrote: I am not willing to sacrifice braid of fire. It is too key to our deck and we don't have a backup one available yet. Clockwork: me and iGrok are going to pick apart the thread when he gets home from work later tonight and we can talk on skype. That being said I have had time to catch up on the events of the thread, and though I dont have much actual things to go on I have found things that I see are weird. The Primary of this was some of stutters interactions with clockwork especially this post: Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 09:14 Stutters695 wrote:On January 30 2013 08:37 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 08:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also considering Prome told me (and everybody) Stutters is this "useless" every time he's town, I am thus willing to "forgive" him and focus on Crossfire more, and also considering Xfire's "blunders" and contradictions and wishy-washy play so far
I.e if I had 2 10/10 beasts I'd attack Cross right now and let Stutters be for another day. Please don't say this kind of stuff. Stutters: you are not getting a freebie from me. I don't give a shit about your meta. Start scumhunting or get zombied. Agreed with this actually. Why would you give me a free pass for a day? From your position I wouldn't consider me town yet. Why would you give me a free pass instead of questioning me to force more out of me. This post rubs me the wrong way though I cannot say why. The second is that he is obviously noncommittal on everything in the game. Even his "next biggest scumread" (me) is him saying the case on my is good but has problems. Now having null reads is not a scumtell, but he seems to be very noncommittal all game, something that I find is a scumtell. On the magic side of things he also really hasnt had incredibly strong opinions on his development in this game. I am speaking of this post: Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:09 Stutters695 wrote:
Basically I can drop a 2/2 today for some kp at the risk of developing even slower than I already am, or can be creatureless until t4 but help everyone develop. I really piloted this poorly t1 :/ While it might seem the "townie" thing to do, this information doesn't do us any good. We don't know how much we will hurt his development, what the risks are, what the reward is, or how vulnurable he will be. Only he knows this information for sure. The best thing for him to do in this situation would be to commit to something and say "this is the best option". Once again, this is an example of non committal behavior. Please read his filter and study him. beyond the standard policy discussion for his first few posts stutters has yet to actually take a real stance on anything, especially now with crossfire taking a lot of the attention of the day.
Although it looks like no one took this seriously, I'd just like to point out how incredibly selective with my filter he is. I've took a stand on cross since halfway through t1. I pointed out cross was my #1 read before bins case because he wasn't taking any stands, and I'm fairly certain I was the first person to actually drop the point about how blatantly different cross's meta was when we played in WLIIA.
His MtG not taking a stance is out of context too considering I was directly asked what I could play to help our collective kp.
Hard to see them being anything but the second scum with head 1 not really contributing and head 2 only contributing in one weak ass case that is based on misrepresenting my filter.
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On February 03 2013 00:03 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 23:39 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 02 2013 23:04 Hopeless1der wrote: I am totally okay with you doing something too. Who is Xfire's partner in crime and why? /Acro Well by elimination really, I have CH, SMTP, DFTP and duh, myself as town, so that leaves Stutters, Nova and AS. Of those three, I'm most inclined to see stutters as scum. As zeb pointed out, and both GreY and iGrok pointed out in his analysis, the flip-flop on my "entrance post" regarding the 0/X creatures is the epitome of a Lynch-all-liars policy and has obvious scum connotations (forgot what lies he told) with no clear town motivation behind the how or why that read changed. In addition, saying he'll put together reads and then not doing so, (which marv says is right up his meta-alley,) is still freaking scummy. As far as associative cases, the "xfire has been discussed to death" is a good way to sheep without saying a goddamned thing.
AS is difficult to read as noted due to his scumhunting methods being "mechanical". While I think stutters is scummier, I am generally fearful of the power of AS's deck, so I'm comfortable sheeping an attack on him if people still feel he's the top candidate. Gonzaw's case is still quite good, but the assumption that random discards fucked up his play and that work is hectic kind of makes me want to stay my hand.
I guess that leaves me null of Nova? He hasn't given a whole lot to the thread (though he has a pretty good excuse for that), and I'd expect scum to be kind of forced to bus xfire. However, in his response to the case on AS: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17688758he basically ends off with "kill xfire", AS needs more discussion. At the time I don't think xfires fate was sealed by any means, as scum he could have had the opportunity to sheep gonzaw's case, so I consider this to lean him towards a townread. ~Hopeless
Let me explain a couple things. First, the flip flop was two days apart. One thing you'll see if you've played with me before is that when I post I always am as transparent as I possibly can be. When I first read his intro they hadn't said much else and it.felt significantly scummier. After reading it again two days later in the context of everything they had said that his defense felt more town after seeing their lack of stances in between on anything else (not that they felt more town in general, just their intro). I'm not afraid of changing my opinions cause I have nothing to hide.
Regarding the Xfire thing, he had been discussed, his play was scummy and his lack of any defense felt like it wasn't worth wasting my time typing a post considering I was busy and I could have used that time looking at other people. If you'll notice when Gonzaw asked for me to expand, I expanded, including original thoughts showing how blatantly not like his town meta he was playing. If you consider that sheeping I don't know what to tell you.
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On February 03 2013 0:00 Aperture Science wrote:Link to Stutters AnalysisConclusions: Greater Suspicion of Scumminess.Factors: 1) Multiple Contradictions, often withing just a couple posts. 2x Class B 2) Soft defenses, particularly about Xfire. Class C 3) Deck Lies. There is no way that a Bears deck can't play with 5 mana. Just no way. Class B BBBC is pretty damning. This is my analysis, GreY's isn't quit finished but you can see most of it.
Artanis(sp?) did some balancing to the deck but you know pretty much what's in it. He added a mox emerald and a couple other things (I'd have to check my PMs) but where are you getting five mana from? I have three. If I was at five mana I would be rolling, but when my initial pulls were all three mana plus, I haven't had a lot of options. I have played the deck poorly but I've said what's in my hand of value. What possible benefit would I get from being so weak in a scum position? What cards do I possibly have that once XFire dies would let me win 1v8 off of my "deck lies?" How is that point even remotely scummy (if I was lying, which you should know isn't true).
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That said I'm working days this weekend so expect sporadic posting throughout the day (noon to nine fucking blows).
I haven't had time to read his analysis after coming back (like his second half) yet but so far I've seen a couple good points (they're wrong of course, but him putting it out there feels town). Aside from that his analysis is just a summary. I can go through anyone's filterand find tthings that stand out or contradictions. Doesn't make them scum.
What stands out to me is how incredibly non committal the whole thing is. He clearly suspects me of being scum, but after all that analysis I'm barely more likely to be scum than a coinflip?
I'll get to your question Gonz, gonna take a bit though until I can get back to my phone after this post.
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I'll hopefully be off soon and I'll give my full thoughts and reads on stuff when I an am, but come on guys. I made it pretty da mn clear that I thought Cross was scum. If you suspect me, that's fine I'll convince you I'm not and we can move on but in all of these sudden cases against me the main thing they have in common is my indecisiveness? If you check any of my past cases/games you'll see I'm always hesitant to call someone scum without considering what I would do from both sides of the coin (if I was scum/town in their position). If anything I'd say I've been significantly more aggressived1 then in past games.
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EPT
