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11589 Posts
On December 12 2012 16:01 sandroba wrote:
I just thought of something. 18 players which probably means 4 mafia (OP says 2 in each world). Which means clarity is auto non mafia. He may be third party, but he is almost certainly not mafia. Also @clarity what would happen if we were to swap you into the other universe?
Sand what a useless post.
Why make this post in the middle of a discussion about plans for the swap vote? Do you not think my plan is worth talking about? Do you really think your plan of swapping scum is THAT good? Why not try to convince me of this, in that case? Don't you WANT to have a plan we agree upon?
Instead you make a speculative post about the alignment of a player you actually have zero real information on. How does him being in both worlds make him not mafia? The conclusion makes no sense.
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My post is not useless.
The discussion about swaps was annoying me since people are not here yet to comment on it. My plan is good because it gets us talking about who we think is scum, and that produces the most information. Whoever we swap is mostly irrelevant, really. Your plan is bad because sending a lurker/null read over is the easiest shit to agree on and doesn't further our goals of finding scum.
My conclusion makes sense if you use your head for a second. How many mafia do you think there is in a 18 player game? The OP affirms that there are EXACTLY 2 scum in each world. So if clarity is mafia there are only 3 scum total. That is a very low number for a game of this size so that makes clarity unlikely mafia by default.
Learn to multithread instead of complaining I'm not yapping about the same shit over and over.
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Sending one of our scum suspects there also gets more info about alignments of players in the other universe. We get to watch how they interact and how the lynch goes over there. If we send someone we have no opinion on or think is townie we waste this opportunity.
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@Dienosore What accusation?
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11589 Posts
If you think who we send is irrelevant then why not send someone everyone can agree they don't want around on lynch day? Who would that be? Players who aren't playing. That way we get the mandatory swap out of the way without sending scum to the other thread for another safe cycle. My plan doesn't say we shouldn't scum hunt. The fact that my plan features an easy swap decision actually makes it easier to find scum because we can come to a consensus early in the swap cycle and move on to thinking about the lynch cycle.
The ONLY advantage yours has is the "confirmed town" idea that I'm not sold on.
You might have a point about Clarity but I'm still not sure why you thought it important to make this early on. If he isn't scum why do you want to draw attention to him?
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11589 Posts
Also you say yourself that you get the most information from lynches so why would you want to send a scum read away from a lynch cycle where he is forced to make a decision?
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I just answered that. We can read both threads and see how the other thread interacts with the dude we sent. There is no pressure at all if we agree on some lurker to send away then talk about scum reads. Doesn't force scum to take any stances on whom to send and makes is harder to differ scum from town. Iif we send our scum read over there he is likely to get lynched eventually and players that voted for him have already taken a stance on him saying they want him dead. That is what makes scum show their true colors. When they have to take a stance on something and justify it, then be held accountable for it. 1 safe cycle for one player doesn't mean that much and we still will have at least 1 scum here to try and lynch.
Just treat this cycle as if it were a lynch and everything will be easier. If later on in the day we decide to keep the guy to lynch in the next cycle so be it, I have nothing against that.
##Vote Hassybaby for dropping a one liner and vanishing into the mist
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[b][green]Clarity says he can't be swapped but I don't see anything that says we can't vote for him. What would happen if everyone voted for a player that theoretically can't be swapped? Would the swap be random or would it not occur?
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On December 12 2012 19:32 sandroba wrote:
Clarity says he can't be swapped but I don't see anything that says we can't vote for him. What would happen if everyone voted for a player that theoretically can't be swapped? Would the swap be random or would it not occur?
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11589 Posts
I don't think you and I think any differently about this, I have just looked at the swap as more of an issue for town than you have, so I find it more necessary to find a real solution that doesn't adversely affect lynch day.
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Alright Im going to go through the 3 trains of thought on this whole swap mechanic:
Option 1 - Send towniest Guy
On December 12 2012 08:47 Mementoss wrote:
For voting for swaps I think its beneficial to vote the towniest looking player, so that they will not be eligible for lynch the next day due to swaping cycles. Later in the game depending on roles and different roles from swaping it might be beneficial to think of other strategies but for now I think this is good.
Benefits:
Player that is swapped is not able to be lynched. Swapping a mafia will delay their lynch by a cycle. Could give towniest guy alternate stronger powers. (Possibility of being weaker as well)
Risks:
None.
Option 2 - Alternate swaps (townie world, mafia world)
On December 12 2012 12:51 sandroba wrote:
My plan is to mass lynch into this world to confirm people as quickly as possible. Should be like this:
day 1 - we send scummiest player into the other world - they lynch their scummiest player
day 2 - we lynch scummiest player - they send us their towniest player
day3 - we send scummiest player - they lynch who we sent
...
...
This is the quickest way to do it. Of course if that would cut our ability to lynch in the other world we can adapt. We can read the other fucking thread and derive info from it.
Gunna have to talk this through with myself to be sure I understand correctly. Send scummiest player, they lynch scummiest player. Lynch scummiest, they send towniest, we send scummiest, they lynch who we sent on day 1.
Benefits:
We create a townie world basically, and a scum city world. More scum in one world = higher chance of lynching mafia. Somehow we confirm townies?
Risks:
-In scum world, we have no control. Mafia will have the majority if done right and they can control the swaps and the lynches 100%. How do we exaclty lynch scum if we get into the situation where mafia is 50% the world? How do we swap the towniest player in this situation?
- Mafia just keeps using KP on townie world.
- Peoples reads are not perfect, is what really limits this plan. I think that if we send the guy and say ya you have to lynch who we send, it REALLY kills and limits discussiong. Also, it lynches on information from 2 days prior, meaning that we are not using all the information we have to the highest potential.
-Here is the gamebreaker: We have to use no-lynches on the townie world. What does this mean? We extend the game. Everytime we no lynch we give mafia a free night to attempt KP. Basically, we no-lynch every second cycle, which in turn theoretically doubles mafia KP.
Option 3 - Swap da lurkers
On December 12 2012 12:51 yamato77 wrote:
So if we are swapping non hyper-town, non hyper-scum players, how about just swapping the lurkers? They aren't going to help us on lynch day and they don't hurt the other thread on their swap day.
Benefits:
Lurker cant vote in lynch
Risks:
-Cant lynch lurkers
-Gives scum an easy option to lurk
-Wastes the information potential of the swapping mechanic
My opinion :
My opinion remains the same, im still down with option 1. Sandrobas plan has merits at first glance, but digging deep into it, I think there is some major underlying problems. Maybe I'm bias to my own previous thoughts. Option 3 is just a bad option, plain and simple. Since I'm down with option 1:
##Vote: Mementoss
Don't have any other solid town reads at the moment so im going with the sure bet. Not sure if sandrobas plan was a cleverly crafted mafia plan, or an underthought town plan. Have to go now, need to read other thread to give my opinions on best lynch, and also reread here and give some slight reads I have in here.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
wow no-body understands the "both sides swap scum" idea at all huh
or are you not reading or what
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
BTW is it just me or did the voting thread like go away and now there's a new one?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Morning...well afternoon...gents!
Out of all the options that people have discussed so far, I think I'm down with BH the most. Having a townie-world and Mafia-world is retarded as Mementoss has already pointed out. You give way too much control i one world for Mafia. Swapping townies is cool, but I think we should only do it in certain situations because I was thinking of an amalgamation of the two options:
Basically we want to keep a balance in both worlds. Keep Mafia numbers the same in each side so they can't co-ordinate in a world easily or dominate voting in any way. As fort he townies, we could split up the players in both worlds who are on form, and then both worlds will be scum hunting well, or we could dominate one world to guarantee the scum dead before we shift them to the other world to do the same. I'm not sure which is best right now.
Swapping scummy players feels like the best way to cover this as well, because then the other world can also shed light on how the first world feels about that player.
Also sandro, it was nearly 1am and I was in a game of Dota with Grey and iGrok. I went to bed straight after the game...not everyone is on your timezone
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
@marv
You haven't put your thoughts down on how the swapping should be used. What dya think?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
BORED!
Someone talk to me about....something
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On December 13 2012 01:18 Hassybaby wrote:
BORED!
Someone talk to me about....something
What is your opinion on the foolishness bandwagon?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Early pressure on a move that sort of didn't make sense. To me, nothing indicated that marv was scummy so I don't see why he voted for him, unless it was to start discussion on something besides the use of swapping.
I can see it as a scummy move to a point, but rather wait to see what he says when he gets back.
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On December 12 2012 19:33 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 19:32 sandroba wrote:
Clarity says he can't be swapped but I don't see anything that says we can't vote for him. What would happen if everyone voted for a player that theoretically can't be swapped? Would the swap be random or would it not occur?
In theory, if every single person voted for someone who could not be swapped, the swap would fizzle and no one would be swapped.
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I think the bottom line is don't vote for me to swap.
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EPT
