EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXIII
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On December 10 2012 12:38 Promethelax wrote: As always it is great to see new faces joining us for this game, I suggest you spend some time in the pre game reading the newbie guides and acquainting yourselves with the way this game works. When the game has begun I urge you all, regardless of your experience level, to talk with your coaches. Everyone is volunteering their time to help you become a better player and join us in none newbie games later. If you have any questions about anything at all please feel free to ask them in thread during the pregame. The co-hosts, coaches and I are all here to help you out. Jidol, the best way to learn is by playing. Are we given a coach? Or do we have to ask? | ||
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Out of curiosity i keep seeing "qt", "kp" and some other 2letter acronyms. The guide doesnt define these, i assume "kp" = kill points? what is qt? | ||
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I feel sorry for the mods then, thats A LOT of reading!! | ||
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im not complaining, was moreso a figure of speech  | ||
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On December 11 2012 15:54 yamato77 wrote: /out I don't think another newbie game is going to help me at this point. @Yamato77 That is a shame, because most of the player list is different to your current game (other than Kickstart). Out of curiosity, why do you feel more newbie games will not provide any more benefit? | ||
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To each their own; I won't try to sway you. I do think its hypocritcal to state you will not play further newbie games because "the rest of the player list to be active participants". Based on the threads of the current newbie game, I think I know exactly what you are implying. However, the actual statement you made infers you will never play a game - as I think its hard to guarantee a list of 30 players will all be actively participating (in thread production); especially considering most guides suggest lurking as an oft employed/viable tactic. * I must confess, my motives are selfish... I wanted the playing list to be fully populated ASAP, so -1 means more waiting time  * | ||
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On December 12 2012 02:05 Clarity_nl wrote: shz I'm glad you're excited to start playing. Since odds are you'll be waiting for XXXII to finish, maybe start obsing some of the ongoing games or read some of the guides here on teamliquid ^^ If you pm the host of an ongoing game you can get a link to the obs QT where people like to think out loud, you might learn something, I know I do. ^^ Thats a good tip, I was wondering why ppl was asking for /obs and what the point was hahah. Thanks | ||
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Marvellosity (1) | ||
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On December 14 2012 15:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Holidays start, play mafia, I will /in god.. Another axel greaser haha | ||
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or yoda | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:45 Promethelax wrote: So far these players have confirmed: 1shz 2Chromatically 3Sylencia 4OmniEulogy 5cDgCorazon 6Spaghetticus 7Kickstart 8FatChunk 9Orangeremi 10 11 12 13 And me? | ||
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On December 15 2012 14:21 Spaghetticus wrote: Before roles are chosen, I'd like to point out that regardless of my role, I will likely be responding infrequently due to living in Australia, having screwy sleeping patterns, and being fairly busy. I will endeavor to bring as much to the table as possible, but there are limitations in place. Actually it seems a few of us are in australia. Im gmt+8 anyways | ||
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Yeah, WA (Perth) | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:48 Promethelax wrote: Aqua: you are in! We will begin Tuesday night. All players are who are confirmed have their filters linked in the OP. Please direct any questions to me or my co hosts. Thanks all and good luck, have fun and good game. What GMT are you working off? Just trying to figure out what time for me is Tuesday night, I assume it will be my Wednesday morning. Im +8 | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:21 Promethelax wrote: day post will go up in ~44 hours. Does that work better for you? Perfect, thats about 8am for me, which works fine for lynches | ||
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On December 17 2012 16:31 Aquanim wrote: Well. Like I said after XXXI, my time will be quite limited for the rest of this week. However, from the end of this week I'm free until the new year (fortuitous timing), so after day one I'll have a lot more time. Doubt I'll be around for day one lynch though. <tips hat to Kick and Chromatic> You know If you are around for Day 1 Lynch, my vote now will already be for you *ahem potential scum!!* Unless of course.. I am scum too? | ||
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From other games, it seems the best 3 questions to ask are: 1) Stance on Lurkers: i.e. Do you policy lynch? 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? 3) [Being from Australia] Do you like prawns/shrimp on the "barbie" | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:50 Mocsta wrote: Hi All. From other games, it seems the best 3 questions to ask are: 1) Stance on Lurkers: i.e. Do you policy lynch? Yes, the last Newbie thread was *FULL* of lurkers. I suggest inactive people be voted. I think the chance of scoring a scum hit is worth more than the chance of killing a townie (that was not contributing or helping!) 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? Tough question, I have to read the OP again as I am not sure whether the number of green/blue/red roles was fixed (I dont think it was). Therefore, its hard to know if there is 2/3/4 mafia. I think that will change tactics a lot?? Anyone else agree? 3) [Being from Australia] Do you like prawns/shrimp on the "barbie" I prefer my prawns in price paper rolls | ||
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agree. We need lurker definition. I think its not just lack of quantity (e.g. 2 posts per day) but also lack of quality (harder to define). Need others input on lack of quality. @all What is defined as a low quality post? sorry if typos. Writing on phone on bus | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:10 Chromatically wrote: Super early start anyone? Anyway, Mocsta: 1) I don't really want to discuss policy lynching since it defeats the purpose, but we as a town need to be hard on lurkers this game. Last game had some painful lurking (from my comfortable obs perspective) and that was a main reason that the town lost. You don't have to spam up the thread all day, but you do need to give your thoughts/reads/comments often. 2) Pretty sure it's 3 mafia. OP doesn't say anything but the other Newbie games with 13 players all had 3 and anything else is just unbalanced. 3) Not sure, shrimp are good though. @chromatically hi. Its 7.15 here. Im on bus to work :-) So. How do u think 3 mafia would go about infiltrating us? & Speaking of policies what is your take on lynch all liars? . | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:29 threesr wrote: I don't have a problem with lurkers. Were u modkilled recently? @threesr please explain why you approve of lurking. How does it benefit town. And how do you think it benefits scum play | ||
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On December 19 2012 09:25 threesr wrote: EST umm yea like I think its important to do that stuff but Im just saying Im not going to automatically vote for someone who doesnt feel like doing that. I have to disagree with. I will concede that I will not "automatically vote" for a lurker. [Rationale: 5 people are lurking, who do you choose? Its not 'automatic' in a literal sense, thought is still required] I stand by the Lynch All Lurkers however, because, Allowing Lurkers to "Fly Under the Radar" is creating an environment where Mafia are not compelled to Scumslip. Please note the below. On December 19 2012 10:43 Chromatically wrote: So are you saying that lurking is more acceptable towards the beginning of the game? Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? @Threesr Chromatically raises extremely valid questions to "cDgCorazon" I would appreciate if you could also answer the same question. (including the lose focus) | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:05 shz wrote: 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? No idea. I guess by acting like town? I'm not that knowledgeable about what they can do. I don't think just lurking is the best strategy for them though. @shz This is not asking about the mafia special powers [i.e "what they can do]. I was asking about tactics/methodology behind play. [You stated lurking isnt the best strategy] What do you think is a suitable mafia strategy? | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:34 Chromatically wrote: *tips hat* Basically, townies should not lie and I have no problem lynching anyone who is lying; In a more advanced game, there might be times that lying is acceptable as town, but it is not needed in this game. Townies, don't lie. What do you mean by "how they would go about infiltrating us"? They're going to act as townie as possible without actually contributing. From experience (XXXI), I wouldn't expect them to offer any controversial opinions because it really is nerve-wracking to be put under suspicion as scum. IMO, end of day votecounts are the best form of evidence against scum. @Chromatically (1) So far you are my best town read. (Based on your other comments in thread) In response to your commentary above. (a) I agree, townies should not lie. It does nothing to aid the environment. (b) Infiltrating is in relation to: receiving reads as "Townie". Some mafia may be content to sit in the shadows, others may try to be T1000/social network us. My question was designed to promote discussion regarding methods Mafia may use to come across as Town. Therefore giving other townies the tools to analyse quotes!! (c)I disagree with votecounts as the best form of evidence. I think they are a very substantial form of evidence. But this game in particular seems to be 50/50 split between America/Australia timezones. I think in a lot of cases, people will not be available for last minute vote swaps (thus, reducing the likelihood of bandwagon swaps [which i think is the evidence you are alluding to]) | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:45 Sylencia wrote: Hey guys, won't be the most active player during day 1, as I have work during the day and tomorrow night I have a work dinner party, but I'll try to be as active as I can when possible (posting this at work - gogo compilation time :D) After that, I should be all free from any obligations whatsoever. To answer the questions proposed: 1) I still am not sure whether or not lurker kills on day 1 are good, it's a high variance move which I don't necessarily like, but if no one has come off as being scummy, it's better than having an obvious mislynch. 2) I'm sure there will be some sort of pressure voting happening in this game, especially since we don't know how many mafia there are, they could easily start ganging up on one person and it'd be a lot harder to detect than last game where it was guaranteed to be 2 members, it could be fairly high at 3 + even a serial killer who would be willing to lynch anyone since they don't care whatsoever. 3) I don't even know if I have a slight allergy to them, my mouth gets itchy when I eat prawns Moc: Low quality post are just filler posts which doesn't really help encourage discussion or which are kind of pointless and can be considered just posting to create noise. The latter is the type I dislike more though, since it becomes a lot harder to catch up on the thread without getting lost and having to backtrack and read again. @Sylencia I appreciate that you are busy today. At some stage in the game, all of us will be in the same situation. For me personally though, this does not make you void from a vote. For the time being ##fos:Sylencia I will re-consider once I have read more comments from yourself. | ||
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Nice first post. Does have a townie feel to if (if not a bit forced....) My read on you is still: null. Considering you have expressed your past experience with this game as a cop, can you please enlighten us all with what behavior you were looking for when trying to identify targets to "inspect" | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:19 OmniEulogy wrote: @Mocsta @Cromatically Mocsta you show a lot of interest as how Mafia should play this game to not draw attention to themselves. Giving me a weird vibe from it. Fair Question. I indeed have. Please refer to the quote below. On December 19 2012 11:06 Mocsta wrote: ... My question was designed to promote discussion regarding methods Mafia may use to come across as Town. Therefore giving other townies the tools to analyse quotes!! I think it speaks for itself. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:27 Spaghetticus wrote: Mocsta I honestly think it's too early to be getting town reads. This is in response to your acknowledgement of Chroma not your null on me. The positives of such a move (that I can think of) are that if you are good at reading people your reads yours will hold more weight than those of a bad reader. The negatives are that if you are a below average reader then you are throwing town off, if you are scum you could be solidifying a position as head town, and read confidence improves with time. I don't see it as a solid move this early. I like the drive you are giving town though. @Spaghetticus Well thought out response. You have made me consider a possibility I didn't think of when posting (might throw town off). So I agree to hold off "reads/opinion" till the lurkers wake up and post more. (At least I hope they are sleeping instead of lurking) | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:55 Sylencia wrote: Not saying I'm always going to be busy, I was just stating that you might consider me a lurker for now but that's just due to the schedule I have over the 2 days in which this period runs. I wasn't using it as an excuse to try exclude me from a vote. Precisely why I did not cast a 'random" vote your way. The FOS was more so a statement to others that, yes we all have real lives. But using that as an excuse for lack of posts doesn't cut it. [This should address the question addressed to me, on why I gave the FOS] | ||
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On December 19 2012 14:06 FatChunk wrote: Cakepie, I really liked your post regarding not being afraid to make mistakes as a townie. In this game of newbies, we will learn while asking questions and participating in discussion. I will be fearless. That being said I think at this point in the game, there is very little information available, but I see value in scoping out a possible lynch on the first day. I think we should be looking for players who promote environments where Mafia thrive. FatChunk, Please be fearless and share your thoughts on what you think promotes an environment for Mafia to thrive? | ||
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Activity has dropped off a bit. Perhaps this time of day is bad for all timezones. Either way, FatChunk made me think a bit more about Day 1 proceedings. What do we all think about the current town environment? Is it conducive to scum hunting? I am stuck in the middle. There have been a few contributions, but ultimately, there is still too much inactivity. Does anyone in their experience with this game have suggestions on how to stimulate discussions Day 1? | ||
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On December 19 2012 17:20 OmniEulogy wrote: Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. I definitely agree with this logic. I would like to add/re-enforce however; That lurkers should definitely come under scrutiny. Lurking is & will not be a free pass to fly under the radar. | ||
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On December 19 2012 17:42 OmniEulogy wrote: Honestly the only idea I can come up with as much as I hate to admit it (I'm a total newbie) is to try and either put pressure on somebody who hasn't been very active with posting, even if they are town we could get some interesting replies from other players or target Theesr for his comments on lurking. A player who doesn't want to add a lot to conversations or help scumhunt doesn't come across as being town to me, but I'm inexperienced so does anybody else have thoughts on the matter? Personally I'd love to know why he wants to lurk agree 100% If i haphazard a guess i would say he is concerned about being outwitted. I.e. Mafia or even town intentionally misconstruing his comments | ||
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On December 19 2012 18:48 Spaghetticus wrote: I'm not sure they meant to actually throw in your vote, these things normally start with a niggle of suspicion. Thanks for the support! Always appreciated. I wasn't concerned about the vote. At some stage everyone will have a vote cast against them. Its the nature of the game. Ultimately, all the items he raised (I should say re-quoted...), I had already refuted in previous posts. My concern was over shz sheeping others comments. Not sure if bad/lazy townie play, or mafia motives. [i.e. Need to read filters] For all of the lurker discussions going to and fro. I think its disconcerting to throw accusations without either evidence, or bringing any new thought process to the table. Either way, as Cakepie referenced before in his awesome (and ?sole?) post. On December 19 2012 11:52 cakepie wrote: Town must never clam up for fear of making mistakes -- 1. it is through discussion that we may hope to correct errors in reasoning; and 2. more importantly, in the event of a mislynch, it would leave trail for others to follow. Hence, a silent townie is a far more useless than a bad townie. I agree with this sentiment, and do not want to discourage people from making comments. We need a town environment where people are willing to speak up (CONSTRUCTIVELY!) | ||
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On December 19 2012 20:13 Aquanim wrote: Which accusations are you referring to here? Fair enough. Perhaps accusation is the wrong word. In context, I referenced the vote as an act of accusation. | ||
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This is starting to get interesting. A few people have now made their "pleas" - not to state innocence, but infer. I think enough bullsh!t is on the table to start getting info from the filters. Translation: A lot of lurkers are posting well-thought out responses, with one caveat. The content is all repeating what has been stated!! There is no circulation of NEW THOUGHT! | ||
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On December 19 2012 20:36 shz wrote: What is sheeping? ... Don't just refer to your posts, quote them if you think you refuted everything already. Sheeping in my opinion is blindly following the lead of others. As for you asking me to reference posts. [Even though most people will probably flame me for this] NO! ... Look it up yourself ... Rationale: (1) Lets look at your vote justification first. On December 19 2012 18:33 shz wrote: So if we need another wagon to jump, or not, to jump on: ##Vote: Mocsta Why? He/She did start a discussion, but I don't think that was all that useful, other than proving him being active and establish an alibi. Questions like the seafood one waste time and distract from substantial discussion. Also he/she is quite fast on "reading" someone as Town. Additionally he/she asked repeatedly about Mafia strategies. This is no way a waterproof case, but I think its a start and something we could work with. Your entire justification reads as a regurgitation of Day1 Activity in a flavour copied from another forum mafia site. Where is the critical analysis, you simply quote questions raised by others (OmniEulogy/Sylencia/Spagehtticus) To add icing to the cake, you then close by admitting your case is as creditable as a comb for a bald guy. Please remind me how this promotes a town atmospheric conducive to scum hunting (2) Lurking/Laziness If you ask me a new q | ||
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(2) If you ask me a new question, I will answer it. If you want to re-ask a question someone else answered, I am not going to bother. Especially with your vote justification. I can't tell if your too lazy to read the filters properly.. or you are trying to cause confusion. Either way, your not helping town. My vote is heading your way. ##Vote: Shz (This is in no way.. OMGUS).. i actually wanted to vote a lurker, but after re-reading the waterproof case comment, I think this is mafia trying to derail the town atmosphere. | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote: ...The FOS on sylencia was definitely too hasty. This was to create discussion. Hence no vote. I was trying to put pressure it is not ok to fly under the radar. We all have real things happening in our lives (especailly with Xmas... )BUT... we also all signed up for the game and knew the consequences. Shz’s case on mocsta so far does not look like it holds much water right now. Nonetheless, the time for banter about policy is past; it is time to put forward cases. Agreed, and was building some evidence whilst you was writing your post. Posted around the same time as yourself Q: You accused shz of sheeping. What do you think after studying his filter? Are there the beginnings of a case that can be built upon? Whatever you find unsatisfactory about his play, I would like to see you question him and push him to take a position on someone or something. Position Taken. Vote has been counted.. | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:47 Mocsta wrote: EBWOP.. accidentally pressed enter... *sigh* (2) If you ask me a new question, I will answer it. If you want to re-ask a question someone else answered, I am not going to bother. Especially with your vote justification. I can't tell if your too lazy to read the filters properly.. or you are trying to cause confusion. Either way, your not helping town. My vote is heading your way. ##Vote: Shz (This is in no way.. OMGUS).. i actually wanted to vote a lurker, but after re-reading the waterproof case comment, I think this is mafia trying to derail the town atmosphere. Apologies!!! After doing the early first post. I rushed the 2nd post. I wanted to say If you [u]RE-ASKING[/] a question I have already answer. I am not going to bother quoting. Look it up yourself. If you dont like my answer, and are developing the question further. I will respond. Tic for Tac.... | ||
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Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia. (1) Its too convenient. I think if mafia did a slip such as On December 19 2012 11:25 threesr wrote: then they might try to say they misunderstood the context of the question to weasel out of the slip (etc)1. I think lurking is fine at all points in the game. This leads to... (2) He has been upfront about his opinion & with a candour I do not link to Mafia. I wont say he has stood by it (lack of posts). However, is it a "crime" for someone to have a diverging opinion from the status quo? I agree I would like more from Threesr, but this is hardly indicative of scum play. The conclusion is: I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia). [Having just now viewed Cakepie post Has posted nothing but useless one- and two- liners. It is coming up to daytime EST, time to step up your play or else. As I and others have already mentioned, lurking is not acceptable here. In the absence of scummier targets, I will not hesitate to lynch you. I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him. However, i implore that with the remaining ~30hrs we do our best to find a candidate with more certainty. | ||
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When i said, i wanted to vote a lurker before pushing for Shz.. i was leaning towards OrangeRemi as well. Either way, I think im "spamming" the thread too hard, so am going to back off. (I don't think its spam , but others are saying its useless)I *was* hoping it would prompt discussions, but people seem to be using my activity as a medium to lurk. Over and out | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:02 Chromatically wrote: @Mocsta You've said why shz's vote on you is weak, and I agree, but why does it make him scum? What is his scum motivation? Sigh. I just said i was going to back off.. will answer this however before signing out. As the question is fair, and develops upon what I wrote initially. Shz is not the only lurker that is copying the post thoughts of others. However, he was the first I noticed that turned it into a vote, admitting he was creating a bandwagon for the sake of a bandwagon. Is this truly conducive to town atmosphere? [u]I think not.[]/u] A bandwagon is useful for a pressure vote, and to receive slips due to the perceived pressure. *Perceived being the key, Townies are innocent and are not subject to the same perceived pressure* However, with a weak case, there is no pressure? Thus, the intended outcome is mitigated leading to pointlessness. You could argue bad town play, or ... you could argue: (1) mafia trying to derail the town atmosphere, (2)trying to create confusion in the thread, (3)trying to take the limelight off someone we are close to finding out is scum, but have not identified yet.... Pick your choice.... | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:05 Chromatically wrote: @all Comments on Corazon? haha lastly, because I cant resist!! I think Cakepie summarised the situation more eloquently than I could. Personally, I agree with case-by-case. This is re-enforced by past commentary where I stated, if 5 lurkers are up for lynch, how do you choose? The decision requires thought, and in my opinion that can be interpretted as case by case. The rest of Cakepie stuff is top notch summary of event. The questions are also well designed to stimulate discussion and avoid a yes/no answer. Perfect. I really like Q2, and eagerly await the outcome. In fact, if cDgCorazon did not answer Q2 in a sufficient manner, most likely my vote would end up there for Day 1. | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:09 Spaghetticus wrote: Personally I would like people to focus their efforts away from Mocsta and Cakepie, and focus almost exclusively on the lurkers. If they do happen to be scum then at this rate they will leave a trail and we will nail them day two. Im dead regardless. End of Night 1, I suspect I will be shot. Hopefully we have a medic that likes me *sigh* | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:25 threesr wrote: ##FOS: Mocsta He determines that Chromatically is a good town read after one post that he reads. Then he keeps spamming the thread with questions, but not actually taking a stance on anything himself. Seems like he is trying to become the "town moderator" and by asking a million questions in order to appear pro-town without providing any substance. I don't like that hes all over the place. First he says "Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia." then "I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him." ##Unvote Thanks for the behaviour slip Threesr. You have made this too easy. SCUM:Threesr If we look @ the post above, his point is made relatively clearly. However, note, all his quotes are taken completely out of contex; let us put events back into perspective. (1) Threesr: He determines that Chromatically is a good town read after one post that he reads. Actual: On December 19 2012 11:06 Mocsta wrote: @Chromatically (1) So far you are my best town read. (Based on your other comments in thread) I concede "Best town read" is open to interpretation as "good town read". It is clear I expressed my decision based off more than 1 post, but here Threesr attempts direct manipulation of fact. Why? Threesr is attempting to condemn with no evidence. The addition of "one post" is a nice subtle reminder of his hidden agenda - SCUM BEHAVIOUR. (2) Threesr: "Asking a million questions in order to appear pro-town without providing any substance" Actual: Townies know their innocence, and are seeking the scum hunt. Threesr, for your benefit in future games (if you dont get modkilled again..) only scum think about trying to appear pro-town. Your interpretation of my behaviour correlates to your role in this game SCUM and in my opinion is a clear slip and to add further insult to injury, is an extremely poor attempt [again] @ fact manipulation. (3) Threesr: First he says "Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia." then "I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him Actual: On December 19 2012 23:57 Mocsta wrote: This is going against the trend, but my priority is to lynch mafia. Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia. The conclusion is: I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia). [Having just now viewed Cakepie post I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him. However, i implore that with the remaining ~30hrs we do our best to find a candidate with more certainty. My post is quite clear cut. I advocate Threesr as a threat, but without enough post history, mafia is difficult to ascertain. The stance is also obvious, I think Threesr is a threat to town, but not a top priority. [Based on others also lurking] (Note: I even "implore" town to find another candiate for Day 1) Threesr knows Town will be coming after him, perhaps Day 2 or Day 3, so is trying to negate the threat by targeting me Unfortunately, with all the pressure to mount a case founded upon quicksand, he has had to resort to quote misrepresentation to convey himself. This equates to lying. And is grounds for a vote & lynch come Day 1. ##:Threesr | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:49 Chromatically wrote: Is there a particular reason you posted this? Yeah, I thought it was pretty clean cut. Perhaps not. Based on the current status quo, I think its reasonable to assume I will be mafia killed Night 1, unless given some form of protection? I was not asking for a medic to step forward, and will not ask them to step forward. [If exists] | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:54 threesr wrote: So now you are softclaiming a power role out of nowhere? lol. Nice twist again. Completely aligns with your fact misrepresentation I discussed in my case against you the previous post. Threesr, you are scum I did not soft claim anything. Its clear cut what I wrote. If you can't interpret the meaning of "hopefully" then I don't think you are cut out for forum mafia... | ||
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Due to the case above and wrong format. ##Vote: Threesr | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:55 cakepie wrote: Mocsta Q: Consider: if threesr is lazy "scumhunting" because he simply doesn’t know any better -- how would that measure against your case against shz for sheeping, and poor vote justification i.e. lack of critical analysis before voting based on "questions raised by others"? (1) I think threesr does know better. + Show Spoiler + Obviously his posts are small in size, but the tone/intent conveyed is easily identifiable in each post as the same. + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 11:25 threesr wrote: 1. I think lurking is fine at all points in the game. On December 20 2012 03:09 threesr wrote: No I dont like writing a lot. and the one I love the most (as in made me laugh out loud)... On December 20 2012 03:12 shz wrote: ... You go read his posts and make your own decision. Threesr then goes on to comment that there is time left in the day and throws in this beauty. On December 20 2012 09:01 threesr wrote: .... Not that much chaos has been caused imo. Through out Day 1, many posters have called out Threesr for his posts. This quote above demonstrates his position clearly. I stand 100% by my read that he is a threat to town. This can be for the following reasons: (AFAIK) (1) Lurking Nature could be Mafia modus operandi I think this is unlikely. Threesr has proven he is willing to stand by his point of view, which may be considered anti-mafia. (2)Bad Townie Could be viable. His posts are so aggressive and snide, it is easy to dislike him. If he was a townie, this is *creating* confusion, and not aiding the scum hunting environment. (3)Neither Mafia nor Town There is still the possibility of Rene Des Cartes being a role (aka Serial Killer). I think the way Threesr is playing is potentially the way an SK would play. (i.e. wanting to lurk, but at the same time voting Town/Mafia doesnt matter, so can easily change votes) For me, all the reason above are genuine threats to town. (2) How does it measure against my case for shz + Show Spoiler + Both of them had marginal cases, that is clear for all to see. I figured with some pressure induced by a vote, one of them may start to enter discussions more proactively. Between Threesr and Shz; I had to choose Shz. Threesr had openly acknowledged his willingness to lurk. => there was a high chance town would get zero gain for the vote. Even if he did speak.. retorts such as " On December 20 2012 08:55 threesr wrote:I have a good reason, because im not the mafia. Do little to aid scum hunting.Ultimately, overnight, there has been several pages of discussion. Some of it quite productive. This can only aid town in the scum hunt. Lastly, Having thought about my impact on Day 1. I realise I need to give more opportunities for others to speak. Unfortunately, some of my 'spam' has resulted in lurkers being able to dodge questions directed at them. In no ways do I infer that I will now lurk. I still plan to post actively, just, I will ensure I at least proof-read before posting!! | ||
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I will state now for the record (in the hopes that it might prevent further sheeping) the below: @Sylencia: I disprove of your candour in regards to sheeping. *Note: I am not calling you out as Mafia*I don't think sheeping aids the scum hunt. By taking the "easy" path, and either admitting sheeping, or just copying others quotes; you provide no information as to where your allegiance lies (i.e town or mafia). If the motives are town based, then we can not discriminate you as town easily, making the scum hunt harder. If the motives are mafia based, then you are appearing to contribute and thus and satisfy the mafia modus operandi. | ||
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On December 20 2012 14:21 OmniEulogy wrote: The thing is we don't know if SK is even in the game. If he is Mocsta could very well be the SK and just trying to get along with everybody and do his best to scumhunt to curve suspicion, I could be the SK for pushing my idea for a lynch on you, shz could be the SK for generating reasons for why we should lynch multiple people. This early it is way too hard to tell how a 3rd party would play. . Before I go. Can we not go into posts over whether SK is in or not. The point is to scum hunt, and this isnt helping. I know I mentioned it first... BUT... My initial thoughts of Threesr were based around motives hard to explain as town or mafia. This is why i said On December 19 2012 23:57 Mocsta wrote: The conclusion is: I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia). I ask we leave this issue for the future, and for the rest of Day 1 work on building cases for Scum or putting pressure on lurkers (which are still prevalent). | ||
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Just did a quick check of the filters for lurker play. *Note: I acknowledge completely, quality is more valuable than quantity.* The people that have only 1 page of posts: Cakepie: Kickstart: Orangeremi: FatChunk: Aquanim: Sylencia: Kickstart and Orangeremi and bolded, because in my opinion they have barely contributed to discussion. Kickstart in particular even admits On December 20 2012 12:26 Kickstart wrote: I don't have much to add at the moment. Orangeremi/Kickstart... Cakepie asked good questions.. Can you please answer them @Kickstart On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote: Kickstart: we agree that hunting scummy scum takes precedence over lurkers. Fingered to threesr’s defense of lurking, although that was pretty obvious, and comes after several others already pointed it out. Play so far seems less active than in previous games. Would like to see more activity and contribution in the remainder of the day phase. Show us the experience from your three games. Q1: re: threesr, he has openly declared that his playstyle was lurky, tried to defend it, and, well, did it. You said that: What do you think of the possibility that threesr has adopted this meta in order to benefit himself when he rolls (eventually) scum? Q2: what do you think of the shz’s case on mocsta? What is your current read on mocsta? Does it look like scum with useless questions and creating a false impression of activity? Or an earnest townie? Q3: Apart from cDgCorazon, mocsta and threesr, has anything else caught your attention by now? & @Orangeremi On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote: OrangeRemi: Nothing apart from useless, "unsure" answers on mocsta’s initial questions, deferring to earlier answers and pleading inexperience -- we are all new here, but that is no excuse for not even putting some thought into simple questions. Besides that, only noted timezone and first game. This is despite three posts spanning over 4+ hours during which others were active. If waking hours are "unorthodox" in a way that is "convenient" for the aussies, we could have expected much more substance by now. Q: Pick and make a case against someone. | ||
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What is your take on threesr then. He has been defended by the lurker kickstart...this aligns heavily with the reasoning used in your case to hunt mafia. | ||
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@orangeremi. Your filter comments on corazon doing the slip. You said you didnt pick up anytjing till someone else pointed it out. Q. If scum have superior starting knowledge and know remaining scum. Do you think it is reasonable to think you took corazon comments innocently because you knew he was innocent? Do u have rationale to make me think otherwise? ##fos: orangeremi | ||
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On December 20 2012 18:37 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP to emphasise this: Mocsta, what is your current read on Shz? Mate. Im on the bus and heading out. I read it but cant do a full case on the phone. IPomise i will get back to u within the next 4 hours | ||
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On December 20 2012 23:16 threesr wrote: So Orangeremi has contributed absolutely nothing for the entire game. Now he may not even make a vote today and hes had a ridiculous amount of time in this game to make a decision. wtf Actually.. I think this is a very clever play. The dust needs to settle and votes need to be given the consideration they deserve. @Threesr: I also think that this is an extremely ironic statement given your pedigree this game. Now that I have read the thread. + Show Spoiler + I want to congratulate Mafia today. They have really stepped it up a notch in the second 24hr period. I have read the thread sporadically today, but topics and votes have changed significantly between p24 and p27 etc. This is exactly the type of confusion mafia need from us to survive. (i.e. have 2 or 3 ppl on the block, so they can spread their votes to hide identity). I am also surprised strong contributors from the 1st 24hrs have subsided in the second period. The last thing is: I re-read the OP for roles. + Show Spoiler + Out of the 13 roles, the default types of roles is 8 good guys, and (4+1) bad guys (1 = SK). I have not played this game before, but I am guessing the ratio may be balanced... i.e. 8 townies to 5 mafia. if we allow variance, it may be 9 townies and 4 mafia. (10/3 sounds way too skewed for town) My point is: I think there is 4 mafia this game. (Chance of 4 + 1 SK, still equates to 4 mafia) I am off to building a case. | ||
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##Unvote PART1: Spag's -> Town Read Associations + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Omni -> Spag ... [Spag] .... The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. ... A townie should have logic behind his claims. @Spaghetti I am going to associate your two best town reads as "Threesr and Corozon" You may say I implied the relationship to Threesr and Corozon. I refer you to the prior post. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Theory of Town and Scum: I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me. I think it is safe to conclude... your two *BEST* town reads are Threesr and Corozon. [Fluff comment] Interesting... lets investigate this deeper. Part 2: History behind Spags Town Reads + Show Spoiler + I am now going to quote from your filter chronologically. I look forward to your retort. (1)+ Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 13:34 Spaghetticus wrote: @Corazon The information is there for the reading. ... Despite your play being scummy, I would prefer someone else get the lynch... (2)+ Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 17:51 Spaghetticus wrote: In defence of Corazon: I conduct this defence with the caveat that I don’t actually think Corazon is innocent. I have a scum read on him, though I lack the confidence some of you display. (3)To ensure I am quoting fairly and to reason, here is one now claiming bad townie. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote: ..Threesr and Conazon .. While I am not saying that there is absolutely zero chance of these players being scum, I think that the information available points to them just being bad town. (4)This one is nice... + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote: A scum Spag would do everything in his power to appear useful while hindering town. I have gone out of my way to help town in ways that are not directly measurable. Have I even tried to sway the vote of anyone other than away from Threesr and Corazon? I have only tried to optimise town as a whole at the expense of personal survivability. (5) & lastly to re-enforce the message + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. Part3: Logic behind his claims Spaghetticus wrote:A townie should have logic behind his claims. I agree. Let us examine each of the 5 quotes. (1) + Show Spoiler + Fact: - Acknowledgement of Corozon being scummy - Recommends to lynch someone else, with no rationale? Motive: - Realises Corozon slipped as Mafia, and is attempting to distance himself. - Is trying to take focus off Corozon simultaneously. Why would a townie want to lynch someone else, if the scum is confirmed? Our goal is to lynch scum. Full stop. (2) + Show Spoiler + Fact: - Again acknowledges Corozon is NOT innocent. Motive: - Realises Corozon is set for the lynch. Is attempting to bus his brethren. (3) + Show Spoiler + Fact: - Now considers Threesr and Corozon as bad townie. Motive: Spag is setting up for his long wall of text defense, and is planting the seed that Corozon is townie. As Spag says later On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote: how long until lynching? I need to plan logistics. (4) + Show Spoiler + Fact: - Scum Spag would do everything to hinder town [Guess what, you are by defending Corozon who not been able to mount a solid defense] -Has gone out way to help town in ways not measureable [Exactly, because the help is "negatively" off the charts..] - Admits, sole focus has been on protecting Threesr and Corozon - Admits attempts to manipulate town for his survival. Motives: - Agreed and you are. You are playing a very good passive-aggressive role and are hindering town by defending Corozon and then FOS Omni in a OMGUS response. - Agreed. Your help to town is not measureable, because its "negatively" off the charts... - Realises we are onto the full mafia crew of at least (Threesr, Corozon and Spag) and is trying to repair a sinking ship Alternatively, Corozon is a mafia with a role, and will be valuable for the night phase. - Fantastic choice of words. I agree he is trying to optimise town. But for whose benefit...I think this is the final take away that Spag (& co.) is mafia. Town are not interested in their own survival. We win if town wins. Town needs the scum hunt. Town needs to lynch scum. (5) + Show Spoiler + Fact: - Spag acknowledges Threesr/Corozon now as best town reads Motives: - Now that big wall of text is posted, and some may follow his band wagon. He is trying to influence others that Threesr/Corozon are town. [Fluff] The last rope for the Spag noose is: + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 11:00 Spaghetticus wrote: . Do not be under the impression that (wordcount) = (town behaviour) Ironic, considering the wordcount used for his defense on Corozon... Overall: I agree with the excellent case Aquanim put forward. Non of Spags work as evidenced by Aqua or myself go towards aiding town. I implore us townies to band together and share our vote with Aquanim. ##Vote: Spaghetticus | ||
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On December 20 2012 18:37 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP to emphasise this: Mocsta, what is your current read on Shz? Personally I dont want to comment on this issue now. As I don't want to detract from the case against Spaghetticus. If you insist on my comments to Shz, I will comply when I wake up ~= 1hr before the deadline (I think..) | ||
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On December 20 2012 13:03 Chromatically wrote: @Mocsta Comments on Corazon/FC after my cases? Same as with Aqua. I would rather comment when the dust has settled on Spaghetticus I learnt from Day 1 0-24hr, that posts can get lost in a sea of other posts. I think it is critical that people read and digest what Aquanim proposed, and then others (including myself) re-enforced. Again, if you must have my commentary prior to lynch deadline, I will do my best to output this. In case this creates a new page Aquanim case against Spag Mocsta Case against Spag | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:57 shz wrote: ... I'm not convinced by Spaghettis arguments. Art the Moment I can see him as scum too. I'm not ruling out voting him out. - Aquanim changes his vote from Corazon to make a case against Spaghetti. While I agree that Spaghetti is possible scum, the argument that rational posts = scum is dumb. If anything overly emotional argumemts are Moore scum. Great to hear your input Shz! I think it is of benefit to find holes in the logic of Aqua or myself. If we left a stone unturned, I will learn something to make my next cases even stronger. Considering Spaghetticus does not appear online... May i ask you to fulfill the role Spaghetticus played for Corazon? i.e. Take my case, and mount a defense for Spaghetticus? Mocsta Case against Spag If you need a refresher on Aquas case.. try here..Aquanim case against Spag | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:03 FatChunk wrote: his argument against spag needs work '. morning. Woke up to a lot less activity than expected.Kickstarts token case extension was expected though. 1. @kickstart. Lets pretend u are mafia. Which mafia role do you think is powerful enoigh to justify lurking to fly under the radar and bus your team mate... 2. @fatchunk Dont throw out stuff like my case is weak and then proceed to identify zero reasons why. Discuss what you find conflicting or assuming | ||
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#Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus If someone wants me to justify this, I will, but it's all been said already. Has tried to blend in, hard defended another player, has told others to scumhunt without actually doing anything, etc. @chrome Yes. I would appreciate if you can justify your vote. Unlike you for me.. I have valued some of your contributions.. Hence i find it ironic. The person -who like spag has demanded other players to present their thoughts - now is openly bandwagoning. I am happy you have joined us in vote.this is what ma tters most. however considering the knowledge and pedigree exhibited earlier. I and perhaps everyone else expected much more than a token it has been said already | ||
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im disapointed you raised the issue of sk. the pessimist in me things this is a distraction ploy.. But im optimistic today and instead ask of you... Why you think its relevant to raise this item 1hr before lynch. I assume you will respond in night phase | ||
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Unfortunately, this flip makes sense, I was suspicious there was no activity when i woke up. Fellow townies, I realise its easy to point the finger at Aquanim or even myself; we both developed cases against Spaghetticus. If you want to question either of us, I suggest action be taken by middle of Night 1. I believe if this matter is not closed sooner than later, it will cloud our ability to constructively look at the sequence of events that led to Spaghetticus. (2) We need to consolidate and stick to a battle plan. I think part of this is absorbing the Day 1 posts before sling accusations at persons. We need to start questioning peoples motives critically; and understand the town atmosphere at the time of key events. (3) For me.. Key Events are: (1) Reactions when Chromatically began targetting Corazon (2) Threesr announcing himself in the thread, in the way he did (3) Reactions to Threesr being top of the vote count (4) Interplay with FatChunk (5) Aquanim/Spaghetticus/Myself Please feel free to add/remove events as you see fit.. I wrote this from recollection. (4) I am going to start examining these events with the following goals (a) Who is pushing these events to occur (b) Who is not posting at all (c) Who is joining the bandwagon,but, not adding original thought When I have had time to answer these questions, I will post again in the thread. I hope you all too... take a step back.. and do a similar process. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:42 Mocsta wrote: (1) Fellow townies, I realise its easy to point the finger at Aquanim or even myself; we both developed cases against Spaghetticus. If you want to question either of us, I suggest action be taken by middle of Night 1. I believe if this matter is not closed sooner than later, it will cloud our ability to constructively look at the sequence of events that led to Spaghetticus. (2) We need to consolidate and stick to a battle plan. I think part of this is absorbing the Day 1 posts before sling accusations at persons. We need to start questioning peoples motives critically; and understand the town atmosphere at the time of key events. (3) For me.. Key Events are: (1) Reactions when Chromatically began targetting Corazon (2) Threesr announcing himself in the thread, in the way he did (3) Reactions to Threesr being top of the vote count (4) Interplay with FatChunk (5) Aquanim/Spaghetticus/Myself Please feel free to add/remove events as you see fit.. I wrote this from recollection. (4) I am going to start examining these events with the following goals (a) Who is pushing these events to occur (b) Who is not posting at all (c) Who is joining the bandwagon,but, not adding original thought When I have had time to answer these questions, I will post again in the thread. I hope you all too... take a step back.. and do a similar process. | ||
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I think its great you are being pro-active and finding points to challenge Omni. This will be beneficial to town. May I suggest (from my experiences Day 1) to take a step back, and consolidate your ideas into 1 or 2 logical and well-reasoned posts. I am sure you have good intentions, [perhaps purely prodding for tells] however, the variety of posts targeting different issues, is making it hard to track whether previous items have been addressed (sufficiently/satisfactorily) I hold the same commentary for OmniEulogy. Your defense is extremely passive aggressive. I know Chromatically is apply pressure to you, but reacting in a mannerism similar to "Threesr" is a not conducive to the scum hunt. Again please try and consolidate posts, and address multiple items perhaps with spoilers. ---- Lastly, Chromatically is spot on... On December 21 2012 10:08 Chromatically wrote: Theses are the people that need to post more: -Kickstart -Orangeremi -Sylencia -threesr (during the second half of d1) With 48hrs expired, this is unacceptable. I think it was Corozon who said, lurking can be begin to be classified post ~30hrs. If a potential scum target thinks 30hrs is lurking, well.. that does not bode well for you 4. Please start contributing. | ||
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Do night actions get locked in 1 hr before deadline? | ||
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On December 21 2012 12:49 Promethelax wrote: Nope Actions/votes will be accepted up to the posted time, but not after. @Cakepie I refer you to. On December 21 2012 11:42 cakepie wrote: The hunt continues! Continued activity would be nice, but let us also exercise caution lest we give scum too much that will aid them in deciding their night actions. Those who have been relatively inactive should start joining in more, but those who have already had a lot to say may want to save some for later in the night, at least until just before the dawn of day. Mod has confirmed night actions can be placed at the last second. If your intent was to post your commentary after the "lockdown" period to avoid putting a target on your head; well.. this is now null and void. I am very curious to hear your thoughts on how matters proceeded Day 1. I hope the comments above persuade you to enlighten us before late Night 1. | ||
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On December 21 2012 13:26 cDgCorazon wrote: .... cDgCorazon, congratulations. I want to thank you publicly for taking the time to absorb the thread and offer opinions that from my first read appear logically sound, and UNBIASED For me, this has gone a long way to prove Spaghetticus correct on his assumption regarding you. [Ramble] + Show Spoiler + The problem I am having with the game currently is the amount of people "flying under the radar". I can see 3 points of view. (1) Scared Newbie. In real life some people are natural leaders and appears confident at first attempt. Others prefer to follow the direction of someone who offers leadership. I think this is a legitimate reason to initially "fly under the radar" but now that 48hrs has passed, I do not think this counts anymore. Newbies need to stand up and be counted. cDgCorazon post I think is an excellent structure to imitate. (2) Blue Roles. Blues are worried about getting killed before putting power to use. Again a good reason to fly under the radar. The key differentiation I assume would be that Blue Roles still want Town to win. (3) Mafia. Not all players are witty enough to release retorts in a prompt manner (e.g. Aqua attacked Spag for taking 3 hrs to produce a reply). Hence, it will be natural for some mafia to want to fly under the radar, to give them time to make that have been checked by the mafia team before being released. I am doing 2 investigations today. (1) Examining the sequence of events, as I posted prior & (2) Trying to provide reasoning to bracket posters as (2) or (3). That aside, I think Cakepie is wrong about delaying posting. And I am concerned a person that has displayed his thought process, and NOT made an attempt to identify the below: We have a critical period now to influence the choices the blue roles make. We have the ability to ensure the ?cop? check is on a mafia. We have the ability to ensure the ?jailer? lock down is on a mafia. We have the ability to ensure the ?roleblocker? prevents a mafia kill! We have the ability to prevent/enable the ?vigilante? to make the right choice! @Cakepie, what are your thoughts on the above? | ||
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On December 21 2012 16:39 Aquanim wrote: He's quite right here, starting a case on a (now) confirmed town should bring pressure in my direction. All I can really say is that I was as genuinely convinced by my case as the other townies on the wagon. I'd welcome any questions if you have them. I have been waiting for you to come back... Im completely gobsmacked, no one has questioned you.. or I. + Show Spoiler + Perhaps i am over valuing my contribution. I am going to set the ball rolling, since no one else will. @Aquanim (1) You aggressively targeted Spagehtticus seemingly out of no where. Spaghetticus was placed under much duress, and wasnt able to express himself as eloquently as he would have liked to; playing a large part in his demise. Do you think your overall your approach was a success? (2) You say you had no serious motive to maintain a cote on Corazon. However, that can not be said for the Spaghetticus vote. Your case had conviction behind it, thus, I 100% agree you thought he was scum. Did Spaghetticus stick out like a sore thumb to you; or do you think you were lured towards his path? Aquanim, I look forward to your response; and welcome any commentary on my behaviour. I want to maintain a post made at the start Townies can make mistakes! What happened, happened; we need to consolidate and figure out where we went wrong. Ask yourself If I/we chased a gut feeling; we can make sure to consider more facts before posting. If I/we were lead to the evidence; we need to consider motives of who planted it. If I/we purely sheeped; ask yourself "why were you convinced" enough to follow? | ||
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On December 21 2012 18:04 Aquanim wrote: Mocsta, I don't think you ever got around to saying what your read on Shz is. Could you quote it or make it? Noted. I will have your answer by end of night. I am goign to follow Cakepie suggestion and hold off till a bit later. | ||
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On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote: ... I do not mean this to be facetious; however I was genuinely not expecting that type of post from you. Its thrown a spanner in the works for me. I am going to have to digest this before jumping to a conclusion. Man I wish this wasn't Friday night, will look into it when I get home | ||
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On December 21 2012 20:58 Chromatically wrote: @Omni Elaborate on Mocsta? LOL! @Omni Elaborate on Chromatically. | ||
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On December 21 2012 21:23 Orangeremi wrote: Couldn't the same be said for scum and possible blue roles? And what's the difference between information revealed earlier as opposed to later? It's revealed regardless. I do not mean this to be facetious; however I was genuinely not expecting that type of post from you. Its thrown a spanner in the works for me. I am going to have to digest this before jumping to a conclusion. [Sarcasm is not intended] | ||
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Do you think there is a difference between a scum read and a scum tell? I do. But I would love to hear the perspective of others first. | ||
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@ALL This is a SERIOUS question Do you think there is a difference between a scum read and a scum tell? I do. But I would love to hear the perspective of others first. | ||
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On December 21 2012 22:47 OmniEulogy wrote: I was intending to switch my vote back to Cora after Spag cleared himself because until that point I hadn't actually thought of him as scummy in the least. but I said it a few times, Aqua's case was much stronger than Spag's defense in my eyes. Aquas case didnt actually win me over. (Similar to I believe ?FatChunk?) FWIW, the case was too aggressive, and thus, manifested itself with severe bias. Though solid points were dashed throughout the case, the overall tone suggested turning a blind eye to anything that suggest Spag was innocent. In my opinion, a rational case needs to present both points of view. It is from here, that a fair and well-reasoned case can reach a conclusion. | ||
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@ALL Do you think there is a difference between a scum read and a scum tell? On December 21 2012 23:37 Sylencia wrote: I think a scum read is based on the way someone behaves and interpreting it as being suspicious On December 21 2012 23:37 Sylencia wrote: whereas a scum tell is like a read but it's more or less accepted in the community as being a misplay that reveals your role. I think you are getting closer to the MONEY ANSWER Let me open your thought process a little wider, and re-phrase the question in more detail. @ALL (1) Consider a townie point of view: -What is a scum read -What is a scum tell (2) Consider a mafia point of view: -What is a scum read -What is a scum tell | ||
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On December 22 2012 00:04 Kickstart wrote: @SHZ Why did you jump on every bandwagon without giving any reasons at all for why you think those players are scummy? Do you have any current scum reads that you would be willing to push instead of sheeping? I do not mean this to be facetious; however I was genuinely not expecting that type of post from you. Its thrown a spanner in the works for me. I am going to have to digest this before jumping to a conclusion. [Sarcasm is not intended]x2 | ||
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Spaghetticus final list did not go to waste. Your post is obvious town, just in the confidence between when writing about town perspective. When you target mafia, and identify great points.. they are still skewed to a townie mentality. I purposely did not quote.. such that others would go back and re-read it. (OK here you go for lazy Sons of Guns) + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 00:25 cDgCorazon wrote: From a town perspective, a scum read is when someone has not contributed enough new information to the discussion, and has only repeated one or two weak arguments over and over again. They refuse to see the error of their ways. Their arguments are mis-constructed and are without reason. They are afraid to call people out (a mistake I have made that might have made you all think I was scum, but I already have 2-3 people I would like to question once the Day cycle starts again) in fear of being called out themselves. That is why they are more likely to bandwagon. I kind of jumbled the town perspective into one, so here is the mafia side: When you ask "From a mafia point of view, what is a scum read/tell?", I'm going to assume it means ways that they have to paint others in a negative light to keep them from getting lynched. Remember, if the mafia have to accuse someone who is town of being scum, the townie has to make a ridiculous error, or their case has to be a very good lie in order to sway the town to vote for them. So they would need to have a logical post, but it would also need to turn a lie into a really strong argument. They need to convince the town that this person is scum, but they cannot go too far, for fear they are trying to push a lynch and get a townie voted. Another thing they have to worry about is pushing too hard for a lynch of a townie. If someone is a driving force behind a lynch, and that player flips town, they're going to have an immense amount of suspicion put on them. To them, a scum tell (which would be a reason to accuse a townie of being scum) would be someone who is lurking, someone who has only done things to anger others, and people who have already been given suspicion. These people are either easy targets, or have already been pressured upon (which would make them a bandwagoner). I agree with many things you have said .. in particular On December 22 2012 00:25 cDgCorazon wrote: When you ask "From a mafia point of view, what is a scum read/tell?", I'm going to assume it means ways that they have to paint others in a negative light to keep them from getting lynched. Remember, if the mafia have to accuse someone who is town of being scum, the townie has to make a ridiculous error, or their case has to be a very good lie in order to sway the town to vote for them. So they would need to have a logical post, but it would also need to turn a lie into a really strong argument. They need to convince the town that this person is scum, but they cannot go too far, for fear they are trying to push a lynch and get a townie voted. @ALL Please consider what I have asked us to discuss regarding scum tells/reads. And then consider these two posts. Let me know if you find anything interesting. [I have quoted them in their entirety to show I am not creating or fabricating a biased opinion] (1) On December 21 2012 20:58 Chromatically wrote: @Omni Elaborate on Mocsta? On December 21 2012 21:23 OmniEulogy wrote: no problem Chrom, I think Mocsta has been fairly good at posting his reasons and logic behind most of his moves so far in this game. He's posted a lot and I can't really say much of it has seemed scummy. He's also agreed with and worked with Aqua on some cases which could be him trying to hitch a ride but at the moment I have no reason to doubt him and there is a LOT to go through and still not have any solid scum reads on him. He generally feeds off what other people say and starts conversations with them to try and scum hunt without leading a player in a direction which I also think is a pretty big sign of a helpful townie. & (2) On December 21 2012 22:24 Mocsta wrote: LOL! @Omni Elaborate on Chromatically. On December 21 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: I feel like you two are having a conversation through me. lol For very similar reasons as you Mocsta I believe Chrom is town. He was the one who originally made the case against Corazon which at that point was the correct move imo. He advanced our conversations and gave us a lot of information, even with this lynch it has still been helpful in clearing some of the confusion I had after I went over all of the posts. He pressures well, he asks good questions. and again there is a lot to go through but I couldn't find any real scum tells. He made his major cases against FC and Cora and they were both very well thought out imo. Very easy to see him as town at this point. and idk if I take offense to that or not Mocsta but if you see an error in the way I've said I see things please let me know. That goes for anybody. | ||
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On December 22 2012 00:35 cDgCorazon wrote: I would like to say, in Aqua's defense. He did call for a lack of sheep and bandwagons on his vote for spag. He would have been fine with one vote. While this does not change my opinion of him, I think he deserves to have this reminded to you guys. @Aqua On the issue of voting me without really meaning it: What did a vote do that a FOS would not have done? Did you need to react that hasty? There were other measure you could have come back to. I was going to save this for my later post. BUT.. im tired.. and to be honest.. i am finding this scum read/tell development way more fun than trawling through the thread pages. ... Corazon.. Aquanim and Chromatically (heloknight) have actually played in the same newbie game before (XXXI). Ironically.. Aquanim was VT, and Chromatically was a Scum, Framer. (Ironic, because some may argue the state has barely changed). Have a read of Aquanims Hammer Case (against Kickstarter) Ultimately, he lost that battle and was lynched. However, to me.. there is a LOT of similarities between that hammer case, and his his hammer case vs Spaghetticus. If you view his filter, the aggression in giving someone a vote is also there for all to see. Its just his style of play as a townie. Thus, I view Aqua is a townie, set in stone... with his ways. I bring this up, because if you agree with my rational, that Aqua is in indeed a townie.. your energy may be spent better on other targets. | ||
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Sorry for throwing some of my stuff away before the night deadline. This was the minor stuff anyways. Will have my hammer case ready to go for the deadline, I suggest you all do the same. | ||
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@Chromatically.. please explain to me why VTs shouldnt claim? & please detail why he is exposed to NK? I was under the opinion, mafia knew their team. Thus the remainder is of town alliance? The logic appears flawed to me? Any reason you would advocate this? | ||
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On December 22 2012 01:47 Chromatically wrote: Let's say that the mafia is looking at the remaining 9 townies for their nk. With two blues (as an example), mafia has a 2/9 chance to hit a blue. If one of the townies claims VT, the mafia won't kill that townie and their chance of sniping a blue goes up to 2/8 or 1/4. It obviously gets worse if multiple VTs claim. There's also just no town reason to do it. It doesn't benefit town at all. You have asked Omni to present information to questions asked prior. @Chromatically. Do you think Omnis motivates are town or scum oriented? Why? | ||
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I realise I have spammed tonight. I also do not have a problem if you are suspicious of me. Please be, at least that means you will read my content in more detail. Regardless.. if you were to only read ONE of my posts tonight. I urge you to explore in detail.. this one. Scum Read/Tells If that catches your eye, another of potential merit is: Aquanim Meta-Read Best of luck with your decision making. | ||
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On December 22 2012 02:00 Mocsta wrote: You have asked Omni to present information to questions asked prior. @Chromatically. Do you think Omnis motivates are town or scum oriented? Why? @Chromatically. Since you pestering Shz for a question you asked. Care to answer of this one please? | ||
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On December 22 2012 02:06 Mocsta wrote: Shz.. I realise I have spammed tonight. I also do not have a problem if you are suspicious of me. Please be, at least that means you will read my content in more detail. Regardless.. if you were to only read ONE of my posts tonight. I urge you to explore in detail.. this one. Scum Read/Tells If that catches your eye, another of potential merit is: Aquanim Meta-Read Best of luck with your decision making. Ensuring this does not get lost in sea of posts. | ||
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I want to tell you now, but will have to wait till deadline. Trust me.. its all explained (hopefully to a standard ppl accept) | ||
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On December 22 2012 06:26 Aquanim wrote: For the record, about that case on Kick in XXXI day 1 - nobody much jumped on it, and I weakened on it myself over night one. Kick turned out to be scum in the end, and the feedback for me from every coach, observer and host was to have more confidence in my scumreads. Which is what I've been trying for this game. Aquanim.. this is precisely why i said Townies can make mistakes, when talking about Spagehtticus. Mafia were very lucky with that, because you found the motive yourself, and by pressuring him.. he slipped things that I picked up. Thus, in my opinion mafia were not responsible for your actions. (They definitely assisted with mine though.. as I believe it was their pressure that gave me the qutoes I used) Woudl have to double check which posts I sourced from though to confirm. | ||
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Mocsta’s Analysis for Town Part 1 1. Purpose + Show Spoiler + I expect to be night killed this night 1 phase. If I am still alive, hopefully before, or after reading this you will think I am town aligned. Obviously if I flip, you will see I am the same as Spaghetticus. Regardless, I have held towns best interests at heart for the duration of the game. I have asked us numerous times to think constructively, not to sling mud at others for making mistakes, and to avoid sheeping at all costs. Some of you think I spam, others say I make sense, either way, I am pro-town. Thus, the purpose of this diatribe is to enable towns people to identify the remaining scum in the game. Lastly, I am by no means proclaiming to be an expert [this is my first mafia game ever]. My motives stem from the lack of town activity. There are still people in this game I consider to be town that are minimal posting, and in occasions, sheeping. Though I don’t support premediated sheeping; I view the post/sheep behavior as a lack of confidence. I stated in a post before, some people have the personality to jump into a new activity with confidence. Others need time to soak it in and try to understand the processes. I think the quiet towns people fall into the second category; hence, I hope this will give you the confidence to push your reads and apply pressure. 2. Methodology + Show Spoiler + (1) I started to look through filters, but a lot of people responded to a question without quoting the question. This was doing my head in, so I decided to re-read the thread in its entirety (p13 onwards). (2) Knowing that Spaghetticus died Day 1, I tried to figure out, how Spag was brought onto the table, and the how the previous favourites (Corazon & Threesr) were brought to the forefront (and maintained there) (3) This process gave me quite a few town reads, and specifically, two mafia reads. (4) I needed a break from reading the thread, so started to pressure my mafia reads (p34/35). This generated the responses I was looking for, as will be discussed below. (5) The hunt now began for the 3rd mafia read. Unfortunately, many posters still have a very small filter, so the associations made are required more thought to associate. Some may argue that the evidence is “contextual’ and open to interpretation or weak. I urge you to reconsider, based on the motives of a mafia player. (6) Lastly, there is one poster who my town and mafia reads have called out repeatedly for lurking (Tip: its not Threesr…). This poster also bandwagonned Spaghetticus. Joining the dots together, I think we have a Serial Killer in our midst. (Which is why I do not think there are 4 mafia in this game 3. Summary of Events I wanted to transfer my excel notes, and the sequence of events, but sorry.. its 2.30am here and Im too tired. I apologise. If I survive, I may try to supply this if people are interested. 4. Things which are scummy / not scummy + Show Spoiler + Aquanim post hits the nail on the head On December 20 2012 16:45 Aquanim wrote: Things which are not hard for scum to do: - Talking about policy - Defending other players - Rambling about Mafia theory - Jumping on scumslips - Posting rationally (about things that aren't scumhunting) - Jumping on a wagon Things which are scummy: - Not voting for their best scumread when lynch is imminent. - Derailing fruitful discussion. And, for comparison: Things which are generally hard for scum to do: - Scumhunt. This is NOT the same thing as "put down a vote with some justification". - Convincingly converse with their scumbuddies. 5. Mafioso Suspects #1 & 2 + Show Spoiler + OmniEulogy & Chromatically + Show Spoiler + Firstly, I would like to thank Spaghetticus for putting me onto this guys trail. On December 21 2012 08:30 Spaghetticus wrote: Let us Honor his wish.Scum - OmniEulogy I want this guy picked apart. ... (1) Passive Aggressive Behaviour + Establishing Associations + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 11:19 OmniEulogy wrote: @Mocsta @Cromatically I agree Crom is currently my #1 town read as well just judging on how he started his other game and this one. That or he learned to phrase his sentences much better as scum. Mocsta you show a lot of interest as how Mafia should play this game to not draw attention to themselves. Giving me a weird vibe from it. This does two things. Contextually, I was trying to be proactive town; he is attempting a cock block on me by implying mafia movies. He is also establishing a relationship early on with Cromatically. This will be explored in more detail later. (2) Easy Scum Play(s) a. + Show Spoiler + Threesr is under the pump, Omni steps in and adds On December 19 2012 17:20 OmniEulogy wrote: If we use the scum guide. This post is FULL of policy ramble and DOES NOT tie in to scum hunting. OK, so he defends Threesr; but as you will later, completely back flips and jumps on the wagon. In particular I like the ‘line’ to play devils advocate.. as a mafia.. that is the game he is playing To play devils advocate for Theesr on his stance on lurkers. I could see scum using LAL to their advantage and making us waste most of D1 while they play it safe and then bandwagon a lurker, we lynch said lurker he turns up to be town and if things have really gone poorly we learn nothing and scum comes out ahead of us on D1. I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. Smooth!b. + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 17:42 OmniEulogy wrote: This is all fluff talk as well. The keypoint is that he is over exaggerating the "newbie" card. Pulling out the newbie card is a defensive technique used to make people feel safe. Townies tend to pull it out when pressured. (See Corazon as an example). In this case, OmniEulogy pulls it out with no direct pressure (from a townie perspective). On the otherhand as mafia, the pressure is abundant from the get go. This goes a long way towards explaining why he slipped out "total newbie etcHonestly the only idea I can come up with as much as I hate to admit it (I'm a total newbie) is to try and either put pressure on somebody who hasn't been very active with posting, even if they are town we could get some interesting replies from other players or target Theesr for his comments on lurking. A player who doesn't want to add a lot to conversations or help scumhunt doesn't come across as being town to me, but I'm inexperienced so does anybody else have thoughts on the matter? Personally I'd love to know why he wants to lurk c. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote: First he votes Corazon on the "slip' issue.He then future baits Threesr as the next scum target for town, using the contextual fact that Threesr posts have been interpretted as anti town. His honest line is "two mafia players can't afford to lynch each other".. ##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up. He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr. The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to. I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1. Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind. I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly. Along the lines of the "newbie"card behavioural slip.. Omni offeers the following gem too. "Either way we as town get". This is such an odd phrasing. if you know you are town, tis natural to write "us townies must get" or "either way we must get".. he feels the feel to insert town in a phrasing that is not natural. It feels forced, and is in line with the mafia mentality. c. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 18:22 OmniEulogy wrote: You have good points Spaghetticus but it doesn't really change my mind. People did come to his defense and tried to counter by voting for Threesr. ... My vote is not locked yet it is just on the person I find most likely to be scum. I don't think he's past the point of no return either. I believe the vote count is 5 for Corazon and 3 for Threesr at the moment. and as I said Threesr would be my #2 if it weren't for the fact that it wouldn't make any sense for both him and Corazon to be scum. I'd like Corazon to tell us his top scum reads, and why they seem to be. I'd also like to note to Spaghetticus and everybody else that if you are looking for more people who came to Corazon's defense, Orangeremi tried to make a case of why Corazon wasn't scum and went back to lurking. I'd like to actually hear why Orangeremi refused to give us an idea of who his top scum reads were and why he didn't actually say why Corazon wasn't acting scummy. The fact that he then put out the same three names for his top scum reads that everybody else had and then went into hiding again is also suspicious. In Orangeremi's own words "Instead of looking for scum players, they would be making unjustified claims hoping others hop wagon in an attempt to get an innocent player lynched." and then "Otherwise, I have a slight suspicion of Sylencia that is based solely on a hunch and little to no evidence." based on that... ##FOS Orangeremi This is hilarious. Omni has been hammering Corazon for a couple pages. Then because Orangeremi thinks Corazon may be innocent, Omni retaliates by pointing the Finger of Suspicion. He takes time to explain his thoughts, so its not an OMGUS. Instead he is aplpying the tactic of mental bullying. If you defy my thoughts, you have to be mafia, and I will vote you. Thus, townies will become reluctant to separate their views from Omni. This is a perfect mafia play. Some may counter this by saying I point the finger of suspicion as well, in what some deemed to be OMGUS. I suggest, re-read the posts I made. I am always challenging people to think for themselves, not sheep my thoughts. This is a clear difference between helpful town and infiltrating mafia. d. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 21:51 OmniEulogy wrote: #Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus ##FoS: cDgCorazon Congrats Corazon. I still think you are scum but I'm going to hunt your buddies for the rest of the day. Personally I read Mocsta as town and don't mind him trying to lead conversation for the next day and night. If he is scum the amount of talking he'll have to do will eventually make him slip up. Of course he reads me as town. If im not mafia, I have to be town, and he knows the mafia count. When he refers to slips, he actually referring to my false accusation of Spaghetticus. He was hoping town would attempt to roast me, and I would make a slip akin to Dorazon. Mafia behaviour is written all over this. e.+ Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol  ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. Omni knows this was a total slip, and tries to smooth the situation on p35 with some interplay #1 town read Chromatically. There is no reason to claim VT, no reason at all. This is completely forced. Again, he prefaces his ATTACK with a "this is my first time.. i apologise". This is a repeat of point b. f.+ Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 09:26 OmniEulogy wrote: @Chrom just because Spagh got his reads wrong and got lynched defending scum doesn't mean the rest of us have been wrong about that situation. It's unfortunate that we got taken off course because Aqua made a good point and Spagh couldn't defend himself properly but how does any of that change the fact that the logic behind Corazon/threesr/FC is still sound. Here Omni is instantly pushing again for Corazon/threesr/FC all over again. Note the commentary directly to Chromatically...This guy is constantly trying to tell us who to vote for. Same with Chromatically. Do i say vote for someone? No, i ask that you think for yourselves. If you want to join me because my logic is reasoned well, so be it. Omni on the other hand is resorting back to Mental bullying. Trying to push for the heads of those townies, and makign others feel uncomfortable to challenge them. g. + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 10:20 OmniEulogy wrote: I'm completely serious. make the case so I can rip it apart and then we can work together because I believe you to be town. In the mean time I'll make my own cases. This again demonstrates Omnis attitude to the town environment. Lets not me constructive, I will "rip you to shreds" This does not aid scum hunting. It actually again is mental bullying and will prevent others from posting and sharing their opinions. (3) The Trigger + Show Spoiler + This is the post that made me want to read Omni's filter in gross detail. Keep in mind I already thought Aquanim was innocent based on the information I provided Here Thus when i saw the following: On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright, so to get more conversation going I'm going to go over pretty much everything I believe we've learned from D1. Reads I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie. I believe strong town reads are Mocsta, Chromatically, and Aquanim. If Aquanim were scum, he didn't need to try to get Spag lynched to save Corazon, as Corazon defended Spag and imo proved his innocence. If Aqua were scum he could have sat back and let us lynch Cora. - same thing happens N1 but his name isn't out there for starting the lynch. For this I believe Aqua is town. FC's actions at the end of D1 still throw me off a little bit. On one hand he's defending him (much too late) and if he were scum and knew Spag would turn up town it would make it easy for him to try and give a last minute case about why he thinks he's innocent. Hard to tell as he makes a few good points as well. He also tried to defend Corazon when nobody else would. Makes it much harder for me to call him scum now. Theesr moves to my #1 scum read as even during the lynch of Spag he really doesn't seem to care. I believe he even says at one point he doesn't care. Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK. Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again. with them gone the people I really have trouble marking come out. Orange, Kick, Cakepie, and Sylencia. I'll enjoy having Sylencia around more often now and it should bring some more insight on him but I find it incredibly hard to read the other three and can't tell if they represent town or scum at all. TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc Aqua I think you should look this over and see if it makes sense to you. Moc/Chrom/shz/cora as well. I believe if we use D1 as any indicator we can assume this to be correct. I admit I was wrong about Corazon after reading through everything again and thinking about it for awhile. Hopefully we can move on and get some of these lurkers out in the open He confirms me, Chrom and Aqua as firm townies. My own notes did not have Chrom as a firm townie at all. So it made no sense to me that Chrom could be in his top 3.In fact Chroma was one of the guys constantly trying to bandwagon Corazon/Threesr/FatChunk; now considered to me as innocents. Reading through interplay between Chrom and Omni filters, it starts to make sense. They are both mafia feeding off each to throw townies under the bus. Coordinating between putting pressure and then pulling back to ensure the state of confusion. I must admit they did a good job. Possiblity even a bigger tell is that he apologises to Corazon. Even though many others falsely accused, no one else apologised. Its life, i didnt apologise for voting spag. I thought my case was strong. So why does Omni apologise, you could argue because corazon wasnt eliminated; but i think its because he realised contextually Corazon is viewed as a townie, and is now trying to distance himself from the lynch attempts prior. (4) The Pressure + Show Spoiler + So I decide to put indirect pressure on Omni. He seemed keen to post, so I tried to bait him and throw out comments of a hammer post. He took the bait and decides to post these early defenses..... again interplayed with Chroma... First Chroma asks Omni thoughts of me. (how kind of them) On December 21 2012 21:23 OmniEulogy wrote: no problem Chrom, I think Mocsta has been fairly good at posting his reasons and logic behind most of his moves so far in this game. He's posted a lot and I can't really say much of it has seemed scummy. He's also agreed with and worked with Aqua on some cases which could be him trying to hitch a ride but at the moment I have no reason to doubt him and there is a LOT to go through and still not have any solid scum reads on him. He generally feeds off what other people say and starts conversations with them to try and scum hunt without leading a player in a direction which I also think is a pretty big sign of a helpful townie. Translation... we want to pen mocsta, but even though he has the highest post contribution out of everyone, we cant find a slip anywhere... I completely agree.. where it gets interesting is when I slip the bait and ask him to do his mate Chroma. On December 21 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: I feel like you two are having a conversation through me. lol For very similar reasons as you Mocsta I believe Chrom is town. He was the one who originally made the case against Corazon which at that point was the correct move imo. He advanced our conversations and gave us a lot of information, even with this lynch it has still been helpful in clearing some of the confusion I had after I went over all of the posts. He pressures well, he asks good questions. and again there is a lot to go through but I couldn't find any real scum tells. He made his major cases against FC and Cora and they were both very well thought out imo. Very easy to see him as town at this point. and idk if I take offense to that or not Mocsta but if you see an error in the way I've said I see things please let me know. That goes for anybody.Again, dont read the words literally. It needs to be taken into perspective. Why is one person not have any scum reads... and teh other, he cant find scum tells.. to me, you target ppl via scum reads.. and then consolidate on them via scum tells. For F@#$s sake.. even Omni agrees LOL!! On December 21 2012 23:33 OmniEulogy wrote: As far as I know a scum tell is when they slip up, a scum read is based on opinion/fact revolving around what they post and what you think of it. basically I think of a tell as something more definite. If chroma is indeed his top 3 town.. why he is looking for scum tells? Thats curious behaviour indeed. To confirm my decision was not biased behaviour.. I decided to publically ask what their thoughts on the difference between scum tells and scum reads are... Random Towns thoughts on scum read/tell I needed this behaviour to stick... ie. Chroma and Omni were mafia But incase I was dead and not avialable to argue the case, i needed to ensure others would be able to interpret this and follow the hammer. (5) Pre-emptive Strike + Show Spoiler + After putting some pressure onto the duo of Chroma/Omni, regarding the scum tell/scum read and directly pasting their quotes. I think they put 2+2 together. I am coming after them. What is the result.. Chroma and Omni start interplaying on poor quotes from Omni, and he starts to defend them as if he was a townie. lets see the outcome. On December 22 2012 01:52 OmniEulogy wrote: quick thing about claiming VT. You would have forced me to role claim about 20 minutes after I had made that original post. I saw it coming (not from you in particular but knew somebody was going to come after me after the lynch) so doing it 10 minutes before D1 ended or 10 minutes into N1 doesn't really make the largest difference. If I don't role claim early in that situation imo D2 I'm the easiest lynch at that point in time. Anyway on to Corazon, as I mentioned in the quote you posted his starting game was bad, as I was going to sleep and reading everything over he was already becoming scum in my mind, I woke up and read through 6~ more pages of him making bad posts, excuses and no real answers to anything and then posts that he's mafia. I honestly just had a hard time anybody would be so nervous that even while being careful they would post so many scummy things. as per what he means about the NK from what I take from it and the only thing that makes sense is that scum will avoid targeting me because they know I'm not blue. If that isn't what he meant about the NK then I don't know. This is such an obvious attempt at pre-empting other townies pick up on this. The garbage he posts is such dribble I won't even bother to dispute it. OK i will.. no one was ever trying to obtain a role claim.. i think omni tried to do an association of safe with vanilla townie. LOL.. gotta try less hard please next time.. and then comes this one + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. Also something I'm painfully aware of and I'm sure everybody else has noticed as well is that when I mapped out who should be town and why I don't actually have a place on that list. I had tried to help scum hunt and give my thoughts D1 but given that I didn't defend anybody I just need to use my consistent play and the fact that I am VT. Poor planning on my part but I think the information we got isn't the worst trade off. Hopefully everyone realizes that at the time all my scum reads and the one tell on Corazon made sense. However I wasn't about to let us waste 72 hours to get myself lynched and we end up with 3 dead townies going into N2. Translation: He knows Im coming for him, and is trying to pen reasoning down completely to Spag post. I agree, Spag made me want to look @ Omni in more detail. However, it wasnt until he made his comments about be and scum reads that I became suspecious. The rest is clearly evident. (6) The partner in crime + Show Spoiler + I am not going to waste too much energy on Chromatically. Seriously, him and Omni to and fro in posts so much, the relationships are CLEARLY there. perfect examlpe is the pre-emptive strikes on p35/36 of the thread. It starts ith Chroma Please explain VT claim and then progresses into a bunch of useless fluff I have quoted above. If you check out Chroma filter, he is just as aggressive as Omni; constantly alternating pressures, but maintaining the same three people. The same ppl spag died trying to prove their innocence. For sake of a finished product. (1) he has actually played as mafia before.. i had a quick read Chroma as Scum, framer I find his meta-style to be similar, but I will let you read for yourselves.[e.g.always references 'mafia" Personally i think the evidence is condemning enough not to bother. Just that he is so deeply involved with Omni should be enough, but lets provide a couple quotes. On December 20 2012 00:32 Chromatically wrote: @Mocsta (or anyone, really) On Corazon, I'm focusing more on his defensiveness and excuse-making as reasons for why he is scum. Do you agree that the things I have highlighted in his posts are more likely coming from mafia? Like Omni, trying to bandwagon Corazon. These two were Corazons main hecklers This quote is jus weird and contradictory. On December 20 2012 04:46 Chromatically wrote: I am fairly confident that Mocsta is town. ... I don't like his case on threesr, but I don't see him making that as scum. It draws too much attention to himself and stimulates discussion at the same time... Contradictory because he has repeatedly called me out for being useless. i.e. On December 20 2012 23:56 Chromatically wrote: Which is it chromatically..@Mocsta Please do build a case, your comments so far have been mostly useless. On December 22 2012 00:29 Chromatically wrote: I think that my suspicion of Omni may have been hasty. There's a few posts I'd like you to explain, but other than those you come out clean. FatChunk and Corazon I'm still having doubts on noob vs scum, hopefully they contribute more during d2. I think shz and Orangeremi need to be looked at more, I'll definately write something on shz. I agree with what Kick said about it (sniped me) but shz is also hardcore blending in. He hasn't taken any positions on anything and is being mostly ignored by everyone, which just bothers me. He's also been basically active lurking all day. Lol.. Fat Chunk and Corazon have no reads/tells compared to Omni. Yet Chrome says Omni comes out clean. That is fishy to me. Need i say more? [big][b]Please make your cases/cast your votes for OmniEulogy and Chromatically | ||
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Mocsta
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Mocsta’s Analysis for Town Part 2 6. Mafioso Suspect #3 + Show Spoiler + Cakepie + Show Spoiler + For some of you this may come a shock. For others, this is no surprise. Several of you have commented on him as 50/50 reads. What is certain is.. he has a very low vote profile which makes reads/tells very difficult (unlike Omni/Chroma). The analysis I am giving below will be more behavioral focussed, and relationship based due to the limited posts. a. His first post + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 11:52 cakepie wrote: Cakepie definitely writes eloquently in a manner that comes across as pre-meditated and knowledgeable... Or does it?GMT-8 here -- lynch deadlines are 7am for me, it remains to be seen if I can be sufficiently awake and coherent around that time. (waking at 6?..... Why do I do this to myself when I am technically on vacation and should be sleeping in? =/) Alright, GLHF; let's jump straight into the discussion: ----- 1) Stance on Lurkers: i.e. Do you policy lynch? I am all for discouraging lurking, but policy lynching should never be a substitute for scum hunting. This game is about building well reasoned cases against suspected scum, pressing them, and the discussing and logically evaluating the cases on the strength of the evidence. When town is able to foster active, productive discussion, lurking is just another scummy behavior to be used to build up a case against suspicious players, and prolonged lurking in particular becomes more suspicious as the game continues. There is never a good reason for town to lurk. Only by discussing our reasoning and lines of thought can we hope to find and eradicate scum. Town must never clam up for fear of making mistakes -- 1. it is through discussion that we may hope to correct errors in reasoning; and 2. more importantly, in the event of a mislynch, it would leave trail for others to follow. Hence, a silent townie is a far more useless than a bad townie. I feel that it is futile to try to set predefined activity standards for what amounts to lurking; every game varies. Quality is also important. Insofar as fostering a healthy level of activity goes, this game is off to a good start; what we need to do now is to keep the discussion going. When we do get to the point when a few individual players are clearly standing out as not contributing productively (whether as a consequence of lurking or otherwise) we shall evaluate those cases at that time. Policy discussion is nice to start the ball rolling and get people posting, but now that a good chunk of us are here, we need to switch our focus to scum hunting soon. ----- You need to look up "infiltrate" in a dictionary. There is nothing to "infiltrate". The scum are already among us, posting openly in this public thread. Unless you have just made a slip? Hmmm? Scum may seek to sway opinion and/or cause confusion and influence the lynch. But everything here is open to the scrutiny of all. As town we initially outnumber scum; with responsible play and sound wits and logic, we can prevail. Remember: when everyone contributes, even a mislynch is informative for the survivors. ----- On seafood: Seafood is yummy. That it all. ----- I disagree, and disapprove. If you are not thinking and scum hunting, then you are not playing responsibly as town. If you are afraid of being wrong, then I say: by sharing your thoughts, mistake can be corrected, and you leave a trail of reasoning that we can look back at even if you are killed or mislynched. Behavior that does not help town but benefits scum is a net loss for town, and we cannot condone it. A complete ban elsewhere and a modkill in witchcraft does no bode well for you. Your posts so far have been short and without substance. I don't know what your arrangement with the mods is for this game, nor is it my place to question that. But if you don't step up your game soon, be prepared to be under heavy scrutiny. ----- On lying: In this thread it is scum that is trying to mislead town, especially while town outnumbers scum. While there are some cases where town players, and blue roles in particular, may have reason to lie in some sort of gambit against scum, there is no place for that in this newbie game, none of us are at that level yet. When a townie lies, there is a far greater chance that it will sow confusion amongst us, and when discovered, it will distract from hunting actual scum. Bottom line: it is not acceptable for town to lie in this game, it will hurt us more than it helps us. ----- That's where I stand on policy issues and early game fluff. Going to get brunch and go about my day for now, be back in a bit. He starts off with timezone fluff. Moves into a good speech regarding policies (remember aquanim signs of easy scum play.. policy talk).. This is not boding well now for Cakepie. He is the only poster to put this much effort into policy talk (albeit, was an enjoyable read) Then he tries to cock block me by insulating my vocabulary knowledge. Ironically. his statement is wrong (but I think he already knew that..) Definition Infiltrate: "Gain access to (an organization, place, etc.) furtively and gradually, esp. in order to acquire secret information." I thought mafia wanted to know gain access to the town circles.. control the play.. acquire the blue reads and finish off. This is a scum play trying to play down the emphasis on infiltration techniques (again tools for us to analyse with) and putting down publically one of the more proactive town posters. I did not challenge him on this item for a few reasons. His post received contextually solid town support, so fighting this issue of "definition' would come across as petty and lower my value as a person that is seeking fairness to arguments. *I was well aware of the poewrplay though* The rest of the post is fluff regarding policies.. modkill reference (which i already stated), and saying not to lie. THe usual fare. Nothign new was presented? It was just done in a nicely structured format. b. second post + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 13:44 cakepie wrote: EBWOP: GMT+8. I need to stop forgetting that I've just crossed the Pacific Ocean. this is just fluff c. 3rd post + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 21:08 cakepie wrote: Now that we've got some filters to work with, I’m in the midst of going through everything and taking notes. A few items of miscellany for now while I’m working on that.. ----- @Spaghetticus: this is my first game. If my count is right, this is the first time for 7 of us, and 4 others have just one game under their belt (not counting threesr who has played elsewhere before). Quite the newbie game! ----- As I have already stated, my belief is that such fear is unfounded, counterproductive, and not a valid reason for a townie to lurk. By posting, even if a player is misunderstood and killed for it, a trail will remain for others to follow. This is crucial in this game that is built about asymmetry of information. I can understand if players with blue roles are inclined curtail their activity so as not to stand out too much and present an obvious target for scum kp. However, that is not a free pass to completely lurk either. ----- Well, sorry for wanting to answer thoroughly and spell things out clearly. =( Talks about some notes. Add fluff regarding game counts. Post stuff about trails.. lets see what leads to him. (there is one post in particular we will get to later). Throws in blue role out of no where, potentially as a play to associate his role as blue. Gets horny, someone said his posts were clear and well thought out.. not much content and this is 3 posts in... d. 4th post + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote: Here are my thoughts based on study of the filters so far, as well as questions directed at individual players. [written based on posts up to Dec 19 21:15 forum time (KST), will catch up on newer posts in a bit] ----- Aquanim: put some effort to find suspicious players, albeit evidence is too scant at this early point to build strong cases. Regardless, boldly throws down the first vote to get things rolling. I cannot fault the choice of voting cDgCorazon as a pressure vote; an excellent choice. I would hope to see more fleshed out cases as this day phase continues, and as the rest of the progresses. ----- cDgCorazon: you need to justify your stance on why lurkers should be handled on a "case to case basis" as this is a point of disagreement between you and several other players, myself included. Q1. How much time should someone be allowed in order to "sit back and figure things out?" A day phase is 48 hours long. What do you think is a reasonable expectation in terms of productive contribution from each player within that time frame? Is two to three substantial posts too much to ask? Q2. threesr openly condones lurking, and claims a lurking playstyle (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17239117). He was banned elsewhere, and modkilled in his last game here on TL. How do you propose we approach this situation, from your standpoint of handling on a "case to case basis" ? Where would you draw the line for unacceptable behavior, if his effort does not improve? My focus now is on forcing activity from lurkers and broadening the search for scum suspects, but if his play does not improve in the rest of the day, and questions are not answered satisfactorily, I would be happy to jump on the cDgCorazon wagon when we get to the phase of narrowing down the list. For now, ##FOS: cDgCorazon ----- Chromatically: pressed threesr and corazon earlier in the day, and brief discussion with mocsta, but has probably gone to sleep since, assuming NA timezones. Looking forward to more when he wakes up in a few hours from now. ----- FatChunk: not much besides a promise to be fearless. Needs to step it up. Q:Now that there are fairly substantial filters for several players and a conspicuous lack thereof for others, who do you think is suspicious, and why? You also need to address the question: ----- Kickstart: we agree that hunting scummy scum takes precedence over lurkers. Fingered to threesr’s defense of lurking, although that was pretty obvious, and comes after several others already pointed it out. Play so far seems less active than in previous games. Would like to see more activity and contribution in the remainder of the day phase. Show us the experience from your three games. Q1: re: threesr, he has openly declared that his playstyle was lurky, tried to defend it, and, well, did it. You said that: What do you think of the possibility that threesr has adopted this meta in order to benefit himself when he rolls (eventually) scum? Q2: what do you think of the shz’s case on mocsta? What is your current read on mocsta? Does it look like scum with useless questions and creating a false impression of activity? Or an earnest townie? Q3: Apart from cDgCorazon, mocsta and threesr, has anything else caught your attention by now? ----- Mocsta: prolific, but does come across as a little over-eager. A bit too excited about first game? The FOS on sylencia was definitely too hasty. Shz’s case on mocsta so far does not look like it holds much water right now. Nonetheless, the time for banter about policy is past; it is time to put forward cases. Q: You accused shz of sheeping. What do you think after studying his filter? Are there the beginnings of a case that can be built upon? Whatever you find unsatisfactory about his play, I would like to see you question him and push him to take a position on someone or something. ----- OmniEulogy: NA time, was active up till 4 am ET, before cases started being made. Will assume sleeping, awaiting further contributions once awake. In particular, please comment on the cases so far, and see if you can build a case against someone. ----- OrangeRemi: Nothing apart from useless, "unsure" answers on mocsta’s initial questions, deferring to earlier answers and pleading inexperience -- we are all new here, but that is no excuse for not even putting some thought into simple questions. Besides that, only noted timezone and first game. This is despite three posts spanning over 4+ hours during which others were active. If waking hours are "unorthodox" in a way that is "convenient" for the aussies, we could have expected much more substance by now. Q: Pick and make a case against someone. Pressure voting. ##Vote: OrangeRemi ----- shz: Tried to provide a case on mocsta as an alternative to cDgCorazon. However, the fast town read was first pointed out by spaghetticus, and OmniEulogy was the one who first pointed to the questions about scum startegy. Not sure the case is viable at this point, but I agree that Mocsta seems a bit too eager. Q: Evaluate my play. Does it look town, or does it look scum? Why? ----- Spaghetticus: solid so far, no complaints. Would like to see you start getting on one of the cases or form one of your own. ----- Sylencia: Declared busy, has been mostly absent. Would hope to see at least some participation in the lynch discussion. Expecting to be much more active after your work dinner party when you are "free from any obligations whatsoever." ----- threesr: Has posted nothing but useless one- and two- liners. It is coming up to daytime EST, time to step up your play or else. As I and others have already mentioned, lurking is not acceptable here. In the absence of scummier targets, I will not hesitate to lynch you. ##FOS: threesr The thing that maeks Cakepie come across as pro town initially, is that he was one of the few (if not only) person to actually provide a bunch of questoins to each person. This comes across as fair and well-reasoned. Until you start examing how many people have received questions etc. Confirms Corazon is an excellent choice, but provides no reason to why, other than a request to justify stance... is that really worthy of a vote? For some one as well reasoned as cake pie.. i think not. Tries to associate me with the current lynch hot property (croazon and threesr). a nice subtle play. When talking to OmniEulogy.. he is only asked to build a case.. there is no justification or answering to anyone else. Seems like he got away scott free. When talking to Chromatically, says "looking forward to more' when you wake up.. does this comment even follow the flow you try to associate with a cakepie post (as limited as they are?) Then to avoid associating a relationship with Omni/Chroma he votes a guy that has received 0 attention (OrangeRemi). What a play to distance yaself. Hwoever, to ensure ppl who value his opinion and think he is town still sheep him; he Finger of Suspicious Threesr. He does it smart too. Most ppl FOS within the post, and ensure the vote is at the end. Not Cakepie. he plays teh manipulative vote in the middle, and the FOS @ the end. Most ppl wont even notice. Guess Cakepie was right.. there is a breadtrail to be found.. unfortunately for Cakepie I was alluding to a different one!! The only reason I found out was because I wanted to see where his vote on Threesr was in teh queue and i coudlnt find it lol!! Then I realised the play. This is enough to vote Cakepie as far as Im concerned. e. Post 5/6 Is just referencing the Day1 vote count. f.Post 7 + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 03:55 cakepie wrote: My read of his scant content is just slightly scummy. The lack of contribution is a bigger concern for now, and so I think two pressure votes plus the credible threat of more should hopefully cause a reaction one way or the other. I am waiting to see how he will address my questions to him. (may need to update questions though.) ----- So, we’ve got some shit starting to hit the fan. Mocsta with a bunch of posts, voting shz. Threesr the self-proclaimed lurker stops lurking and FoS Mocsta, triggering a voteswitch by Mocsta that does not look completely well-reasoned, even somewhat omgus. Then threesr himself switches to FatChunk before clamming up again. This is something I have noted myself. Looking at Mocsta’s filter, for all the prolific output and various questions posed -- hardly any of the questions apply pressure on anyone, only fluff about policy, scum strategy, what environment allows Mafia to thrive, how to stimulate discussion, etc, rather than scumhunting questions. Now, this is not to say that Mocsta has not openly presented (or tried to) his reasoning for suspecting people, and responded to questions and accusations. But his two votes were in response to others suspecting him, and there is no original scumhunting to be seen. Things seem to start going really haywire with the deathwish post: It is way too early in the game for this nonsense. It is not only poor form to appeal to blues -- even if Mocsta earnestly believes that his play has singled him out as target for scum, I would consider it overrating his own contributions. Then, in response to the FoS from threesr: Counter-arguments (1) and (3) are fine at refuting the accusations from threesr, but I am not completely convinced by (2) as I do indeed find a lack of substance in the questions posed by Mocsta. Mocsta seems to swiftly conclude that threesr is seeking to misrepresent what he had said, and quickly switches his vote on the basis of lynching liars. I offer an alternative explanation: the weak aspects of the case put forward by threesr could be merely lazy scumhunt by someone who has been accustomed to lurking and not following closely, but has been forced to participate under pain of lynch. (This is by no means defending threesr or offering an excuse for his behavior.) Mocsta You’re definitely getting too excited with the flurry of posting and you need to cool your head. Try to consolidate your posts more, it also gives you time to reflect and digest things. I hope you take another fresh look at things when you wake up in the morning. Q: Consider: if threesr is lazy "scumhunting" because he simply doesn’t know any better -- how would that measure against your case against shz for sheeping, and poor vote justification i.e. lack of critical analysis before voting based on "questions raised by others"? especially @ Aquanim, Chromatically, Kickstart, Spaghetticus, shz Q: what do you think of mocsta’s flurry of posts and vote switch? Is he merely overly excited, or could there be merit in the accusation that his incessant questions were noise without substance? ----- I think you’ll have plenty to work with by the time you wake up  This, very, very much. Keep in mind: if I were to be mislynched or killed by scum, what could you infer from the trail that I am leaving? What about Mocsta? Or anyone else for that matter? Comments on Corazon , AFTER following the prompt of Chromatically.. How convenient for them two. Then trys to associate me as scummy, and then to avoid me coming after him with an OMGUS, he backfoots and potentially infers I am still being pro-town. Comments on my case against threesr, which even I can admit was terrible. and then poses me qusetions. Why.. its a power play. He essnetially "tore me to shread - respectfully" and then asked me questions in an attempt to enforce superiority over me, and thus, make a stake at leading town, as I was one of the more active posters. g.Post 8 + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 04:36 cakepie wrote: As for threesr: try harder. Two brief cases against Mocsta and FatChunk, but refusing to elaborate on the question of Corazon? Dislike writing? Why do you sign up to play then? Elaborate on your case against FatChunk. Not a valid excuse. Lazy is worse than just plain bad. ----- It is early yet. The vote stands as a reminder so that OrangeRemi is not forgotten while we carry on at length about other players. Yes, there are several more hours, let’s wait a bit and see what he/she does with that time. Other key suspects have votes on them already, my FoS stands to back those up as well. As we draw closer to the lynch, there will be a process of consolidation. But I shall leave this pressure vote where it is for now, rather than switch frivolously, and will see where things stand in a few hours. Really? As opposed to Mocsta, who you have your vote on? If you had to lynch for inactivity and/or lack of serious contribution, how would you order the 3-4 candidates? ----- It is past 3 am, going to bed now. I like that some NA folks are starting to chip in more now that it is day over there, and look forward to longer filters to analyze when I get back. Calls out Threesr. Easy play to make. He has made so many comments aginst the grain of town thats a no brainer to fit in. Then stands by vote to Orangeremi for being a lurker. The real cause is.. the bandwagon on Croazon was big enough for a lynch. THus.. cakepies vote was not required. he could safely distance himself. Then talks about fluff with time zones h. Post9 + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 02:52 cakepie wrote: Upfront disclosure: Had an unexpectedly long day today due to complications with consular/visa stuff that needs to be done ahead of my return trip across the pond. Will be occupied early tomorrow dealing with this as well, followed by social obligations -- but will definitely aim to get some solid content in around 5 hours before end of N1. It has taken a large chunk of the evening for me to catch up with all the posts since I was last in here, taking notes, etc. It is 0100 KST as I start drafting this post (excludes newer posts from consideration), and I have now pretty much made up my mind for D1. It is late and I need to get an early start to tomorrow as well, so forgive me for not addressing the status of every player (compared to my previous posts). But the important bits are definitely here. ----- As I did my catch-up reading I grew increasingly suspicious at the lack of pressure being applied from Spaghetticus. His response to my questioning is that he wanted to wait until he had a >30% scummy read on someone, but that is followed by some 15 or so posts in which little real pressure is applied on anyone. He tries to coax threesr and corazon to not OMGUS and to pick and stick to a read. Then presses OmniEulogy to diversify his suspects list, and asks OrangeRemi and Sylencia to step things up without any questioning of substance. I refuse to believe that Spaghetticus can have nothing of worth to bring to the table in that 8-hour duration. Of course, following that is the defence of Corazon as the votes got stacked up to a dangerous number of 6+fos. Aquanim builds a thorough and well-considered case, and that I agree with all of it. One thing I can add is that I am watching how others react to my choice of playstyle, and compared to everyone else who generally addresses my (early) play only in passing, or only addresses me directly in response to my questions, Spaghetticus comes across as conspicuously eager to seem chummy with me (but also deliberately cautiously so, under the caveat that I am leaving a trail if he later deems a need to consider if I am scummy or not.) This is anomalous and I do not like the vibe that it gives me, considering the various possible motives for such behavior. The only thing he has going for him is the lack of OMGUS, but he jolly well can't do that if he preached against it earlier! Consequently, he still has not voted yet, and it is now getting late in D1. ##Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus Let's do this thing for reals. The only votes left on Corazon are threesr, shz, Sylencia. Two of those I will not take too seriously, and shz voted there as an overnight placeholder pending later consideration. @Spaghetticus out with your reads, if you are town and we are all terribly mistaken. It may not save you, but it will help the common town wincon when you get mislynched. There is no time to wait for >30% scummy or whatever now. ----- Reminder: these still stand from my earlier post. ##FOS: threesr ##FOS: cDgCorazon threesr has posted more, albeit abrasive, lazy, and chaotic. but it is marginally better than before. I can understand his play from a lazy angle, but I still do not approve of it. willing to see if there is a further effort at improvement. My FoS on cDgCorazon has strengthened at the attack on Aquanim's case in lieu of defending Spaghetticus. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17302166) He has also failed to address my questions adequately. Q1 was ignored, and his answer to Q2 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17295870) is hardly informative as by the time he posted that response, threesr had posted quite a bit as well as voted several times. Furthermore it is notable that the only votes left on threesr as I write this are corazon and fatchunk, both of whom picked him for being an easy target early on. (Don't forget that fatchunk is also under suspicion as well. I don't FoS him yet, but he has stayed firmly in the scummier half of my semi-ordered players list.) ----- Additionally, ##FOS: OrangeRemi although I unvoted. I can understand some reasons/motivation why you might be cautious, and am willing to wait to see what you can bring to the table N1/D2. But do not test my patience too much. Also, as chromatically already explained, no lynch leaves us with no info and down at least one from N1 scum kp -- please do not no lynch. ##FOS: Kickstart the lack of activity from him has gotten to the point of really uncharacteristic compared to his earlier games. Other than spaghetticus, only he has yet to vote. Give us something to work with soon, otherwise be prepared for further scrutiny. And please do not get modkilled -- if you are town, we'd like to see you put your past experience to work. ----- It is late now and I need to be out and about early tomorrow. Depending on whether I manage to drag myself out of bed, I may or may not be able to pop in around 2h before lynch (before I need to head out). Regardless, with the information at hand now, we should be on track for a lynch of Spaghetticus or cDgCorazon, with FatChunk earmarked for scrutiny next. I am satisfied with how things stand, at 6 hours to go. If this is headed for a mislynch, I trust spaghetticus will keep his head on, do the right thing and give us as much to work with as possible. (side note: good to see a less frenetic mocsta. keep it up.) This is the breadcrumb post. You can read all teh fluff. giving excuses blah blah. But the guy who in post one was so in control, well reaonsed and calm.. decides to join the bandwagon on spaghetticus. Breadcrumb: try this one.. (I think shz picked it up as well) On December 21 2012 02:52 cakepie wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus Let's do this thing for reals. (1) He directly quotes Chromatically as his justifcaition. Why so much trust.. never presented him questions.. I think its cos they are working together, just like with Omni. Then what is this lets do this thing for real? You could say its a rally to townies.. but.. the way that is expressed is to different to the typical cakepie style. I think its a slip of the tongue from excitement that the new last minute plan has worked. and in his excitement, he posts that not realising. This is obviously very subjective, so I won't push it further. I am hoping the links between cakepie, and definite mafia (OmniEulogy & Chromatically) is enough to seal the deal. In the end, he has another 5 or 6 posts. Most of it is junk. Says a bunch of crap about his night philosphy posting. which conveniently promotes no activity, so town start day 2 with no knowledge. Again why I am posting this huge text. 7 Serial Killer + Show Spoiler + Kickstart + Show Spoiler + Sorry for keeping this goign. but if i am to die. i think this in particular needs to come out. I think KICKSTART is the serial killer. I am too tired (5:10am) to do a similar case structure to the mafia, so i hope someone reads this and builds upon it. Essentially I accused Threesr of maybe being a serial killer for exhibiting several traits. Kickstart is rpetty much doing the same thing but worse (lurks more (less content).. bandwagons (check the vote history) and offers no opinions of value. Going through his post history quickly (no pasted quotes) He comments on lurking... standard fare says Threesr can be either alignment (what help is this) Admits he has nothing to add. Bandwagons Spag Does NOT reply to questions addressed to him. If you read Omni/Chorma/Cakepie posts. they include him in list of potential scum.. i.e. they dont associate him as mafia. he definitely doesnt play like his meta games.. many ppl int eh therad have commented that. the logical suggestion is.. he is on his own team... SERIAL KILLER And just in case you didnt know.. Kickstart has played in a similar setup newbie game before (ie. the 13 roles known at start, but qty of each role unknown) and taht game had 3 mafia and 1 SK. 8. Caveat + Show Spoiler + I do *think* Kickstart is the SK.. but I certainly do not know this. There could be a 4th mafia instead. If that is the case. I would investigae OrangeRemi in more detail. He has flown under the radar (even with Cakepies token vote which successfully drew no attention).. I think no attention was drawn, because one.. the vote was hidden in text and two.. orangeremi never pulled cakepie into line about the phone. i.e. cakepie was never questioned etc? Isnt that abnormal? If someone votes me.. i certainly question them. however, remi didnt.... WHY? and then thre is this on p34 i think. On December 21 2012 21:23 Orangeremi wrote: Couldn't the same be said for scum and possible blue roles? And what's the difference between information revealed earlier as opposed to later? It's revealed regardless. This is jsut plain weird.. he wants all the town info out during night, when mafia can kill ppl. either inexperience or leading town astray due to motives? please investigate. Orangeremi also has a weird quote. im surprised no1 else picked up on and followed On December 20 2012 19:02 Orangeremi wrote: This is getting exciting. Two in a row :D .... Completely reasonable. Clever, in fact. I'm happy you caught that, I never would've thought about it. I'm not sure what kind of rationale you're looking for. The only thing I can think of is how foolish it would be of me to post what I did if I were mafia. I'd have no reason to defend a non-mafia claiming to be one since he would be an obvious distraction and good lynch target for me to bandwagon without suspicion. His response is odd. I cant tell if thats shock, or indirectly admiting. Again, please investigate further. And as a reminder. [btw. its 5.20am.. sorry for all the typos.. im definitely not proof/spell checking this beat of a case the purpose of this diatribe is to enable towns people to identify the remaining scum in the game. Lastly, I am by no means proclaiming to be an expert [this is my first mafia game ever]. My motives stem from the lack of town activity. There are still people in this game I consider to be town that are minimal posting, and in occasions, sheeping. Though I don’t support premediated sheeping; I view the post/sheep behavior as a lack of confidence. I stated in a post before, some people have the personality to jump into a new activity with confidence. Others need time to soak it in and try to understand the processes. I think the quiet towns people fall into the second category; hence, I hope this will give you the confidence to push your reads and apply pressure. | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:56 Chromatically wrote: Mocsta, you think I'm in a scumteam... with OmniEulogy? I haven't read your whole case yet but.. wow Its pretty simple. If you disagree, post a counter/retort. Whoever is left, can try and piece it together. | ||
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It was pretty obvious this was going to happen, hence my essay to you all. I know it is going to be a mission to read it all, but please try, it took a lot of effort to make. | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:22 Aquanim wrote: I imagine you feel like I did after day one Is this game so painful that the observers aren't even watching for the lynch to give us popcorn?  | ||
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On December 31 2012 14:12 Aquanim wrote: In the same spirit, does anyone have any comments on my play? For the record, I was deliberately trying for a more aggressive and pushy style for this game - a quick look at early day one suggested to me that there were very few aggressive players in the game and someone was going to have to rock the boat. I didn't pay detailed attention to the thread when I died.. but I thought in Night 1 though, I made some posts saying to leave you alone, because you appear to be playing the same town game as in the past. Found it.. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=35#689 The moral is, its important to be confirmed town. | ||
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On December 20 2012 06:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Now you are just trying to play the victim card. I have made one voting decision in my time as mafia, and it was a vote to defend myself, not on who I liked or not. Make a useful post, not all of this silly questioning and stuff. Heheh.. *knowing* your scum, this slip is quite funny. Re-reading all your posts up to this point, its actually quite clear you are scum; but of course, that is the benefit of hindsight. | ||
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