Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII

On December 02 2012 15:51 DarthPunk wrote:


Oh. LOL. No, playing and making PROPER USE OF YOUR COACHES is the fastest way to improve IMO.

On December 02 2012 15:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
My God, this game is going to be awesome with Yamato in it. I hope he rolls scum.

On December 04 2012 10:29 AxleGreaser wrote:
pocorn mode on
lolcat <= a C&C warning
// mafia needs has and moreover deserves visuals
{on cue}{Enters stage right}{runs into the spotlight}
{leaps in the air and pirouettes}
{lands delicately on one foot, falls flat on face}
{rolls around on floor like a beached whale}
{struggles in an ungainly manner to feet}
{spins around , fingers spread wide}

“#*#Fos everyone in the Room, yer all scum!”
{pauses, gears turn, looks carefully at fingers, notices a spare one, looks skyward}
“#*#Fos the host too, yer all scum, until evidence of intention proves otherwise!”

Thinks<I like Lego House and I like chocolate.>
<so obviously simple logic proves a chocolate Lego house must be double yummy!>
“#*#unFos host yer now my top read from beginning to the very end!.”

Thinks so if what you say is true... in this game Roles... then
{Rechecks PM.}
“#*#unFos me I know know 100% what I am. Now you will too.”

A valid Association case first post day 1 !rulez.

end Lolcat
popcorn mode off.


I believe yamato and Oats were asked a question? I have not yet heard an actual answer

On December 04 2012 10:49 Kickstart wrote:
That depends entirely on how much the person is lurking and many other factors. Point is enacting a lurker lynch is silly because if everyone says "Ok we will lynch lurkers" then why would mafia lurk? Trick question - they wouldn't. The goal is to find scum - anyone putting any other objective above this is suspect to me.

On December 04 2012 10:55 Kickstart wrote:
Yes, that is why you say "don't lurk or else" and move on, not spend numerous pages discussing it and asking questions about policy lynching - spending tons of time discussing policy lynch is unproductive. As soon as everyone agrees that lurking will make people seriously consider lynching you move on.

On December 04 2012 11:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Anyone

In your opinion, what differentiates bad(newbie) town play from scum play?

On December 04 2012 11:19 AxleGreaser wrote:


The social parts of the discussion break the ice and get things going.
The on topic parts, such as what is our plan and objective let you see if people are deflecting away from anything.

On December 04 2012 11:40 AxleGreaser wrote:


The bit you quoted does not seem entirely related to the question asked which I find strange.

Every one starts off equally scummy.
As inconsistencies and evidence mounts for a likely lynch candidate it get more and more scummy.
Lurking longer and longer does too.
Often if town plays town well enough pressure mounts and enough evidence mounts to lynch someone who has posted lot of inconsistent information.

Something i dont know is, if the better players can just push a weaker player into going all mixed up.
This is where town comes in, I must trust the players who are better than me to watch one another,
They will catch when the other ones are just cracking the weakest link, no matter what alignment they are.
Indeed there are so many questions, int hat regard that I don't actually see the best way forward for me.
There appear to be some rather a large gaps in skill level.

On December 04 2012 12:03 AxleGreaser wrote:



I cant think of good reason no.

On December 04 2012 12:16 AxleGreaser wrote:


your question has two parts.
What were you trying to find out when you asked this question.
What did you want to achieve.
Or any ideas about day 1 town plans?

On December 04 2012 12:45 Kickstart wrote:
##FoS yamato

Badgering people then voting them when they ignore his badgering

On December 04 2012 12:47 Kickstart wrote:
I may be too early to jump the gun on thinking yamato is being scummy, but I haven't liked his incessant policy talk and now he just jumps on someone who he is badgering. Thoughts everyone?

On December 04 2012 12:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think this is just his playstyle,
What I am wondering is, Why did you FoS him so fast? Without waiting for him to explain...

On December 04 2012 22:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
I could say that about you too
I agree with CC in the last game, meta over 2-3 games is not really identifiable though :/

I think we should scumhunt using more normal scumhunting methods.

On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote:
Right, I know it is early in the game but I am just going to throw this out there and try to make it as comprehensive as I can to try and get some real conversation going. So far I have some suspicions on Yamato and Rad. (I will also note that as an aside that Rad defended Yamato against one of my questions but association cases are bad day 1, just interesting that there are two people I find suspicious and one is defending the other.)

Yamato77
As I have stated before, I find Yamato's incessant policy talk a bit suspicious and that was the first thing to draw my attention to him. I have to look at it and see what his possible intentions could be. As town, policy talk is ok to start with, but I think it is best to say what needs to be said and not dwell on it much, where as scum would try and drown the thread with as much policy talk as possible as it is really unlikely to gain any useful information from it.
Taking a look at Yamato's filter shows that most of it is policy talk and then he has an exchange with Axl. Now on his points against Axl I am in agreement. Axl is posting way too much in the way of "I am a noob and everyone else here is better than me" and things of that sort, and I too expect this to end. But I am not sure if the way Yamato reacted to this is town oriented. I can't help but feel that from a town perspective, someone would be a bit more helpful and not putting so much pressure on him and then throwing a vote on him when he doesn't respond. To elaborate a bit:

So far Axl is putting out this vibe of being a noobie. Now I won't say town or scum because he is not doing a great job of answering questions and is really posting way too much about how noobie he thinks he is. To me, a town would look at this and react by first encouraging Axl but then pushing him slightly. A good example would be to give some support but to remind him that he needs to just post what he is thinking and why for the sake of town clarity. Here is my post directed at Axl:



I gave as much support as I could but I also made it clear that it is important for Axl to post what he is thinking and why; and note that other players reacted in much the same way as I did.

Now look at the way Yamato reacts to Axl:









This is almost the exact opposite reaction that I and pretty much everyone else in the thread have displayed in regards to Axl. Yamato is being really aggressive (I used the term badgering earlier). He doesn't see that there is a timid first timer and try and be encouraging but productive, he instead seems to try and take this opportunity to attack and throw his vote onto a noobie town.

On December 04 2012 23:35 AxleGreaser wrote:
I am already aware your play is different. Not really interested in that difference.

I am interested in your understanding of the reason why Town does things and why scum does the same or different things.

On December 05 2012 03:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


Pulling teeth? You don't want any information from me, just this useless fluff about why I thought Oat's reasons for the vote were invalid which I already gave you.

If I was town I would cooperate... cooperate with what? I put my opinion out there, and you're turning it into something that's not cooperating with town functionality. It's my opinion and I put it out there - deal with it.

So I should just sit back and agree that Kickstart is scummy because of these reasons? Does that really help town functionality? Sorry, I don't think he is that scummy. I'm not cooperating with the popular idea because I don't see a reason to. Cooperating with people who could be scum trying to push a mislynch, no less.

On December 05 2012 03:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm just pointing out that those aren't generally scum traits....

On December 05 2012 02:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
The first two points aren't "scummy" as he claims, the last point kind of is but it could go either way.

On December 05 2012 04:56 Kickstart wrote:
Don't be impressed, I didn't make a post saying I was suspicious of you to impress you.

The pressuring has nothing to do with it at all. It is how you did it. I posted how I responded to Axl (which was in line with everyone else at the time) and I said some words of encouragement but told him that he needs to answer questions and post his thoughts and the reasoning behind them, you on the other hand pressure him by saying "OMG HE IS IGNORING ME" and then throwing a vote his way - if people can't see the point I am making there then there is not much I can do to expand on this.

On December 05 2012 05:01 Kickstart wrote:
No different is not bad, now move the fuck on. I said that I think a town player would look at Axl and react one way, and that you did not react that way but you reacted how I thought scum would want to. Get over it and move on.

On December 05 2012 05:05 jidolboy wrote:
When you pressure a person (especially a noobie) they might not think straight and post some stupid response. Then the scum can exploit that and manipulate the townie to lynch him. That's my thought

On December 05 2012 05:06 Kickstart wrote:
So my post that filled up anentire page didn't explain my thoughts well enough Yamato? You are being really stupid right now.

On December 05 2012 05:16 jidolboy wrote:


The thing is. If you pressure someone you should ask questions and questions. But not to quickly Votekick him. Dont you think having town's opinion is a good choice?

On December 05 2012 05:21 Kickstart wrote:
What answers did you get from Axl, because I for one can't understand a thing he posts.

On December 05 2012 16:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
The shitstorm between me and kickstart.
Who would you vote if you absolutly had to?

On December 05 2012 16:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Maybe its his style of writing?

On December 06 2012 04:58 Arnarnion wrote:
But Yam, is Axle your top scum read, and if not, why wouldn't you vote for them instead?

On December 06 2012 15:18 Kickstart wrote:
We just lynched a scum d1 and you are upset we didn't listen to you and vote Axle. The hell yamato -_-

On December 07 2012 06:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I still have no idea why Yamato insisted that we shit up the thread with that 2 page long conversation where he just attacks me for telling Oats his arguments weren't that valid in a case against you. He kept going "Omg it's just a pressure play, y u mad about it?" How did he know it was JUST a pressure play and not a real case?

On December 07 2012 09:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Look at Arn's voting behavior. He has it on Kick, then when he realizes Kick will probably not be lynched, he unvotes. Then he votes the most suspicious lurker. Then he votes Oats after I call him out for not giving a fuck about who dies.

Idk. Blendy people are blendy.

On December 08 2012 13:34 Sylencia wrote:
As much as I actually want to search for scum right now, no one can actually be heard over the amount of spam that Axle is producing right now

##Vote AxleGreaser

On December 08 2012 15:33 Kickstart wrote:
Yeah its the only logical conclusion I can come to on Rad, that he is scum. I think it is the only logical conclusion anyone can come to ;/

On December 09 2012 03:54 Arnarnion wrote:
Rad, it was a poor lapse in judgment, I saw my friend playing this game and thought that it looked like fun. And after watching a bit of the last newbie game, I figured I would be able to pick it up a little easier than it turns out that I could.

With regards to jidolboy, I don't really know, he hasn't offered a lot of to the conversation (of which I am also guilty) and his recurring quick response time to requests of his presence looks bad given how little he says. But I also think that these are more examples of an uncomfortable newb player than scum, because wouldn't scum be vocal if attention was being brought to their scumminess and be trying to sway the towns opinion away from looking at them? I think he's just new and uncomfortable but I could be wrong.

I really find Axle a confusing influence on discussion in the game, I really can't say whether or not he's scum, and I think if no consensus can be reached on who is scum today, that he should be the one to go. Because honestly, he says a lot without stimulating much clearly useful discussion to finding scum.

I would like some explanation on why everyone seems so comfortable calling Yamato town at this point, though. Given his behavior of solely providing one read all of D1 and saying that we were all delusional for wanting to play with Axle, it seems strange that he would abandon that viewpoint so quickly at the beginning of N1 and then finally start giving his reads on players that weren't Axle. In fact, if you look at his reasoning for voting Rad:

He only decides to pick Rad because of a feeble process of elimination, and he does not provide with us why he thinks Rad is scum, only that every one else probably isn't, and pretty much sheeps Kicks vote. Does anyone else feel like this is somewhat suspicious? Why is only now that he is trying to push anything besides the easiest scum choice? I find this really fishy, and think it reads as scum 2 trying to pull in the slack that comes from being the only scum left. So that is where my vote is going ##Vote: Yamato77. I think that the push on Rad is an easy vote because he got caught on the wrong side of the flip and that voting him is an easy thing for scum to capitalize on.

On December 09 2012 11:13 Sylencia wrote:


Just woke up, got to go in about 10 minutes, so I'll just quickly say:

I already mentioned how Rad is not scum (in my eyes). I am not going to vote for someone who I can see as town, just because others are voting for them.

On December 05 2012 11:21 Arnarnion wrote:
Based on the general style in which players have been approaching the game I have a couple of reads

First with regards to Yam Man, I have a bit of town read on him based mainly on the way he has been approaching the game by asking questions, even if they have been aggressive. This style of play seems to be harsh but information driven town play since it is actually creating an environment where conversation can actually move forward. This should be obvious given the fact we are still talking about it. If his move against Axle was scum motivated, to what end? He would possibly get Axle lynched and then be cast into immediate suspicion on D2, since he would called out for pushing a mis-lynch. This question oriented play style promotes clarity of peoples intentions, which is ultimate of town's goals

In contrast, all of Dickstart's actions have seemed to be aimed towards stalling the game. First, and I've made this point a couple of times, his wishy washy approach to pointing FoS on Yam Man did not help players understand the possible intentions. The fact that he put suspicion on Yam without trying to ask Yam why he acted the way he did does not provide information from Yam on whether he is scum or not. Kick did not ask for Yam's opinion on the accusation and instead attempted to get our reads on Yam without really committing to his own. Why would a town do this? This seems like a very scummy play, trying to get a case on player moving the conversation forward without actually providing any strong evidence on why that player is scum and fishing for scum reads from the rest of town to get that player lynched.
As for his case:

Here he attacks Yam's use of pressure, which as I've already stated, seems to be more of a town play than scum. Also, going after weaker noobs is more indicative of a town looking for answers, and a scum player would be more focused on targeting noobs who were playing scummily.
Kick also gives HIMSELF as an example of proper treatment of confused noobs, which basically says "Hey, guys look at what a good town I am!! I'm not picking on poor defenseless Axle, and anyone who does is clearly scum!" This is a shit argument since it only says that players who play nice are town and players who are jerks are clearly scum, and by the way, Kick plays nice and thus must be town. I fear it comes from a mischievous scum looking to get a mislynch on a semi-suspicious player than from a concerned town and so I'm going to go ahead and ##Vote Kickstart

On December 05 2012 15:07 Arnarnion wrote:
I'm becoming less and less sure about who is scum at this point, I am beginning to think that it may be possible that two sides of town have started going at it while scum can easily sit it out with having to contribute much. This heated debate is not producing much more meaningful information from either side and I think the conversation needs to calm down and be reconsidered, since there seems to be a lot of rash and reactionary voting going on, which I don't believe is productive to town. The thread is turning into a brawl, which will make it easier for scum to sheep a vote without much more reason than jidolboy gave. Given that, I myself am going to ##Unvote for the meantime until the conversation becomes a little more productive and informative.

On December 06 2012 04:55 Arnarnion wrote:
As you can see as of right now I'm not voting for anyone. While I am less convinced than I was that Kick is scum, I'm also not ready to say that that makes Oats scum. The fight that broke out between them seems more of a town on town altercation to me and it seems like a good cover for scum to push agenda as town tears itself apart. I haven't liked the actions jidolboy and Sylencia sitting the game out until close to the vote then quickly squeaking their ill explained votes in. And based off of going through their respective filters, I find Sylencia's approach more scum and jidolboy's more newbie town. I say this because based off of their votes Sylencia goes through a list of sheeping other peoples points and then finally votes Oats after saying nothing original, reads scummy to me. jidolboy literally just votes with no explanation after being being absent for long while, and then sheeps when pressed about, which seems more like a frightened noob who didn't realize how suspicious he was being. So I'm going to ##Vote: Sylencia

On December 06 2012 08:20 Arnarnion wrote:
How's is voting for my top scum read not giving a fuck about who is lynched? I give a fuck, I just I'm not sure you have the right guy and I'm pretty sure that Sylencia has exhibited some scummy behavior. That being said, since you guys seem set on lynching Oats above anyone else and I don't like the idea of a no lynch, I will ##Unvote and ##Vote: Oatsmaster, since I don't have a strong enough town read on him to adamantly say don't lynch him. I just hope this is worth it. I still think there should be more attention on the sheeping lurkers, though.

On December 07 2012 02:01 Arnarnion wrote:
I voted for Oats because a no lynch seemed more detrimental to town than either a scum lynch or a mislynch. So I voted him hoping that if he flipped scum, he flipped scum and yay, one down and one to go, or if he flipped town, clearer reads could be made on people who voted for him or against him. A no lynch would do nothing good for town besides keeping a possible scummer or a possible town alive and scum could then pull off an easy NK. When I voted, I voted for coin flip reasons, which aren't very good reasons but I felt it would be better for town than to let nothing happen.

On December 09 2012 11:41 Arnarnion wrote:
I'll tell you why i didn't vote to consolidate. If I voted Rad and he turned out not to be scum, what would happen next? Someone would be NK'd and then I would be placed under suspicion like the last time I voted to consolidate, you guys would lynch me next and boom, 4 dead town in a row for one scum.
If you guys were wrong it would be the end of town and I wasn't willing to risk that, especially since the only people on the vote where the sheepiest player we have, a guy I don't trust, and someone who seems to think that he has solved game because he led a lynch on scum day one. I wasn't buying it.

On December 09 2012 11:41 Arnarnion wrote:
I'll tell you why i didn't vote to consolidate. If I voted Rad and he turned out not to be scum, what would happen next? Someone would be NK'd and then I would be placed under suspicion like the last time I voted to consolidate, you guys would lynch me next and boom, 4 dead town in a row for one scum.

On December 09 2012 13:28 Arnarnion wrote:
Kick, just because I've been lurking doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
And 3 out of 7 people is not the majority of town.
And I didn't tell you guys not to vote rad because A) I didn't think I(Captain Lurker) could change the minds of the guy who got the first lynch and his two nodding followers and B) I was agonizing up to the last minute on whether or not I would consolidate because I keep thinking there is the possibilty that my reads are wrong, but this time I felt like if I went and voted without thinking that there would be a 50/50 chance that that action could mean a win for scum or town. And I didn't want to make that decision.
I threw my vote down on Yam because of the two people that sheeped you for that vote on Rad, his behavior has been the most inconsistent throughout the game and he hasn't had his own idea since he first went after Axle, jidol has a least been up front about it.
You are being followed around by two people without any opinions themselves and feeling like you're hot shit because of it. Wake up
Why do you trust Yam now, when you clearly didn't before? I really want to know, because I don't under stand why everyone is talking about him like he's confirmed town.

On December 11 2012 11:17 Rad wrote:
I'm noting your actions, yamato, not the fact that every town should be suspicious of everyone right now.

You had your vote on me last lynch, but that shit didn't work. You're now FoSing 3 different people, none of which include your last lynch vote, but also subtly keeping the door open to move back to me if the opportunity presents itself.

Now your reasoning is that Arn's guilt would imply my innocence, but the same goes for the rest of the people in this game, including the ones you FoS'd. You claim you're slinging shit at them to motivate, but also take the stance that I have basically done nothing the entire game. Why I no get motivations from you </3 ??

On December 11 2012 20:26 Sylencia wrote:
And Yamato, it's perfectly reasonable to be looking at a confirmed scum's post to see what trails could be left behind. We're hunting for the final member, why would we limit ourselves to speculating who could and couldn't be scum just by looking at our own posts.

I mean, sure, my interpretations of Oat's posts may not be completely correct, but it's a hell of a lot more trustworthy than what anyone alive says. Knowing he was scum, you have to think what he was trying to achieve by posting what he did, who he was trying to protect and cover for, and how he did so.

On December 12 2012 07:56 Rad wrote:
Perhaps all the votes on yamato are making him feel safe. I can't allow myself to vote yamato when arn is sitting there literally doing nothing to help town.

##Unvote
##Vote: Arnarnion

Come out of hiding, arn.