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On December 20 2012 13:22 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:54 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 20 2012 10:41 Djodref wrote:
And also because of the fact that Vivax is quite disruptive...
I mean, I have a town read on Vivax right now, but there is still a slight possibility for him to be scum...
Same with Z-Bo, he has been pretty townie this game, but his play is a little too 'clean', and he does fly under the radar.
But this also speaks again a town Hapa.
In Hapa shoes, I would be much more paranoid than he is. Hapa is basically saying that we have to lynch BL and that's going to be GG... Can you elaborate why you think my play has been "too clean"? You look too town to be town  You only present solid cases, you don't make random comments that could make you look bad. You are pretty solid this game, I would be impressed if you turn out to be mafia.
Haha I'm glad I achieved this. It's so much easier to look for scum when you don't have to defend yourself all the time, this was something I was working on (which kinda failed in mario).
Don't worry though, I'm as townie as townie gets
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Regarding Bluelightz, I just remembered this post:
On December 15 2012 09:12 Bluelightz wrote:
Lazy about scum hunting - People ignoring me and saying every post I make scum or is somehow scummy... (I post something other guy says "Thats why you should vote BL")
Which basically said he was lazy that he was scumhunting because people are ignoring him and saying that every posts he makes is scummy.
Except that right now, people are begging him to do some scumhunting, he's not getting lynched today, and yet he still doesn't come up with anything useful.
I find this quite interesting.
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On December 20 2012 13:39 thrawn2112 wrote:Go read the conversation between marv and blue that happened a few pages back and tell me if you still think he's scum. true he's not really doing anything but he's contributed more than jay. the last two days jay has clocked out as soon as he's pressed to talk about his scumreads...why? he doesn't have any. he didn't even respond to my question a short while ago.
Because he's telling us why he's voting jay? Because he noted how faulty jay's logic was and how jay didn't explain it properly? Because he disappeared after marv said "ok for now"?
I disagree with marv's dismissing him, BL still hasn't done anything productive and is appearing mostly when called out. He promised a "full response" which I'm yet to see. I hope that if he's town he actually becomes more helpful.
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On December 20 2012 14:59 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
you dont need to provide a big case just this very second, you can do that later. i just want as fast of a response as you can give. so who do you think is scum and why? I already said Z-Boson. Take at look at how he votes. For both the adam and the VE lynch he didnt even help them get lynched. He waited till they were already had enough votes and then threw his vote in. He hasn't helped us lynch scum yet (as in use his vote to get them lynched) I also find VE's last minute pointed fingers at Z-Boson a way to set him up to look more townie. Thoughts?
I see some effort here.
I especially liked the part where you said I voted for Adam.
Like thrawn said, that logic can be applied to many people this game, so yea.
You are also displaying some kush mafia thinking. "Bah I'm getting lynched regardless, so w.e.". Another example of how you are displaying scum mentality. The only advantage a dead townie has is that his cases when he was alive are 100% bullshit-free. What you are doing is just neglecting that and dismissing your opportunity to do some real scumhunting. Well you are flipping red anyways so, forget what I said 
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On December 20 2012 22:03 Djodref wrote:It reminds me something Also, just to give you some heads-up, I'm going to take a flight back to Paris in 12 hours for my annual holidays in France. My activity is going to drop very soon because I don't see my family and my friends in France often so they are going to resent it if I spend too much time in front of my computer. Also I don't have an internet phone back home.
Oh this reminds me, I'm going to go to california in the 23rd with my family, so from that point on I'm gonna be posting by phone, and not that frequently, should I still be alive
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On December 20 2012 23:36 marvellosity wrote:Firstly Djodref, don't ask people to concede, because that is the opposite of respectful ^^ Let's go through a couple of hypotheticals. If I'd died last night, would that have made it more or less likely that Hapa was scum (let's remove other behaviour for the moment). Or is it just the fact that Hapa has talked about the night actions a few times that are making you lean more heavily that Hapa is scum? If we take the base assumption that last night mostly town was thinking jay and probably Hapa, what do you think Hapa is gaining from doing what he's done and said about the night kills? If anything, it's made people think he's *more* likely to be scum, correct? I'm not getting my point across very clearly :/ What I'm trying to say is that you're actually yourself wifoming the night actions, and who knows if the night actions weren't made to incriminate Hapa further? It can be argued that Hapa *wouldn't* draw attention to the night-kills if it was a cunning plan. What I want from Hapa is for him to explain his play. I've pointed out two or three contradictions in things that he's said, and there's always been an explanation (that was dumb, dunno what I was thinking, whatever) and thrawn pointed out another further up on this page. The issue is not any single one contradiction but the fact they keep popping up indicates a longer-term pattern of not being able to keep a story straight. Z-bo - what's your opinion on Hapa right now? From your recent filter it seems like you're more suspicious of BL, but it's not totally explicit. Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:25 Bluelightz wrote:
Cant post too much today guys - flying soon and real life is a bitch. So BL, knowing you were flying and real life, yesterday's contributions were your best attempts?
His lack of presence makes it harder for me to read him. He makes some valid points on BL, which I agree with, but that's nothing alignment-indicative when it comes to hapa.
I'm going to look at him more carefully once jay flips. Since Jay is most likely flipping red, I'll need to see if his push on Jay looks like a bus and all of that. There was a time where hapa gave him a slight town read:
On December 13 2012 12:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Also, I'm really not getting any scummy vibes from Jay. Other than Adam's vote on him, there's some stuff like deliberately antagonizing Palmar (YOUR vs. YOU'RE), which seems fairly townie in context. Palmar didn't like Jay's posting, and Jay turns around and starts poking Palmar with a stick. I think scum would have more of an inclination to hide and appear diplomatic rather than antagonizing your accuser.
And I'll have to see at what point exactly did he choose to bus, assuming he's scum.
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And with that I'm gonna go lunch and run some errands. Be back in a couple of hours.
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Um guys it may be me just being paranoid
But there's something I don't like in vivax's filter. His views on VE just don't feel right.
he begins the day with this post:
On December 17 2012 02:38 Vivax wrote:What's off about VE is that he defended Tunkeg against some pretty strong cases before the Adam lynch,namely by marv. + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town. This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam. I'd have expected a scum VE to profit of the situation by helping a player with a good reputation like marv to push his lynch and take away attention from the Adam lynch. Him trying to lynch jay isn't compatible with theories involving both of them in a scum team either.Additionally, most people were mostly disinterested in a jay lynch, and that stinks of him being scum. Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been. + Show Spoiler +On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it?
To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion. Then the case about a clarity scum vigi, initially I didn't believe it either, but it was actually possible. I'm not lynching VE today. That said, I suggest that Djo and others should at least elaborate my points. That leaves me with following targets: Jay or BL today.
Marv maybe some other day.
Spreads some suspicion on VE, yet says he's not getting lynched today.
On December 17 2012 09:12 Vivax wrote:
Well, marv, you're not gonna get lynched today:
##Unvote
##Vote VisceraEyes
You really should be if you survive the next night. See you around at deadline.
He then votes VE because "marv isn't getting lynched". Makes a case for VE, because no one else seemed to have one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=112#2224
And now he really really really wants to kill VE. It's like the claim made him want to kill him even more:
On December 18 2012 07:42 Vivax wrote:
Yes, VE, post your reads quickly and I'll think about it.
On December 18 2012 08:07 Vivax wrote:20 Minutes over I actually told you bullshit, VE. I don't believe your cop claim either way, but thanks for sharing your 'reads' with us. + Show Spoiler +If no one counter-claims?You think it's likely that we have a vigi, a JK, a veteran AND a cop?
Look at the timing, he could have claimed 5 hours ago, he's probably just been making this story up in the meantime.
He doesn't have a crumb either, aside from half a dozen other reasons he's probably scum.
You didn't defend Djo either at the moment it mattered.
Please don't get fooled by VE. Look at his scumlist, Hapa is actually behind a jay lynch, so it doesn't even make sense in this short span of time.
I mean, this kinda looks like a bus to me. First he's not digging VE at all, suddenly he goes after him like a mad dog. I mean, he pummels me when I show a thread of doubt regarding his claim:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=114#2272
This level of certainty after an uncontested cop claim seems unnatural to me. Original I thought Vivax was Cop (it's the only thing that made sense to his reaction), but it occurred to me that three blues may be enough to balance this game, and that he may be scum bussing.
@marv (or anyone with experience): is 3 blues enough to balance a 16 player setup??
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On December 21 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, someone being lynch-bait doesn't make them not-scum, you should know that. It's not an argument for anything. I presume BL is still your #1 scumread after jay? Despite my/Palmar/whoever's reservations?
Z-Bo, 3 blues is fine in a 16 player game. I mean, anywhere between like 2 to as many as 6 could be balanced depending on the roles themselves, and the roles the mafia have. From the lack of roleblock other than me from the JK, it seems like mafia don't have a roleblocker, which is normally the primary scum role, so I'd maybe expect a number towards the lower end, or at least not many strong roles. I don't know how to factor in mafia vigi as I'm unsure on my assessment of how strong it is.
On Vivax, meh. I need something more than that to make me worry about him.
What exactly gives you the town read on him, his recklessness?
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actually carry on, missed the first part of your post for some reason
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Actually don't carry on, that was hapa's post
I don't know wtf is going on lol.
Why the town read marv?
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Oh goddamn it hapa, not only did you snipe me but you also fucked up the quote part. That's hilarious, for some reason I'd thought I missed something marv said
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On December 21 2012 07:26 Vivax wrote:
Boson, I told VE I might believe him so he would just post his fucking reads.
If I said I was going immediately to vote him, he wouldn't have delivered, like he didn't deliver the big post he promised when it was clear he'd get lynched.
You clearly don't know how to mindfuck scum.
Yes, now that VE has posted his scumreads, the game is as good as solved!
Thanks for teaching me and showing me the way!
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On December 22 2012 04:12 thrawn2112 wrote:djo? idk yet. i'm still working through my read on hapa and atm that's my top priority. but I want to reference this post: Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 12 2012 10:47 Djodref wrote:
I'm bad... but are you scum? so now it seems natural that among thrawn, boson, and djodref, each of them should be expecting to find at least 1 scum between the other two..... unless any of them think that all the scum were bussing adam, which thrawn doesn't the only way that one of djo/boson/thrawn isn't scum is if all the mafia bussed adam
Yea I don't think this is a valid form of approaching the game. It is statistical that scum votes are spread out, but occasionally (as I think is the case this game), they won't be. You should focus your efforts on actual scumhunting, with discussion, etc. , specially now that you and marv are probably dying.
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On December 22 2012 04:30 grush57 wrote:
Sigh, I don't know who to lynch now.
You want someone to tell you or are you actually gonna start contributing?
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On December 22 2012 05:54 grush57 wrote:
Also I never asked anyone to tell me. I don't know. Basically anyone is a lynch candidate at this point, so let's see what the NKs are.
So why don't you try figuring it out? Why don't you post your reads or try to be helpful in any sort of way? Cmon dude
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@marv
since you are likely to die tonight, what are your thoughts on who's scum now that jay has flipped green?
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EPT
