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On December 13 2012 12:12 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 12:01 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote:On December 13 2012 11:51 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 10:17 Hapahauli wrote:
Between Bluelightz and Tunkeg for me atm. Tunkeg's martyr post doesn't look too hot right now given WBG's flip. Hapa, can you elaborate? Why do you think that Tunkeg looks worse now that WBG has flipped? Part of the reason I was leaning town on him was because I agreed with his read on WBG (martyr post). Since it was wrong though, there's not much else in that post of substance. Some obvious town reads, obvious scum read in Adam, seemingly easy case on Jay... it looks far less townie than it first appeared to me. So if he had given wbg a town read, would he have been looking better atm? I'd say he would have looked better if he expressed some more doubt or skepticisim. On a second readthrough of his filter (WBG-tunnelvision-off), his martyr post reads a lot like "oh since I might get lynched, I'll finally bother to post some reads."
Reading his filter, he seemed 100% confident that bugs was scum, asking to put vig shots on him, etc. Do you make this to be a scum excuse to not post any real content (which he hasn't done so far) or a town who really actually thinks bugs was scum?
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On December 13 2012 12:03 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 11:42 Hapahauli wrote:@ JayI do want some answers for some things I found in your filter however: On December 12 2012 08:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm I think BL would of been a good lynch, Im leaning town on thrawn. Adam honeslty im not sure on but I dont want a no lynch.
##Vote Adam You seemingly pull your read on Bluelightz out of a hat here. I haven't seen you mention BL in your filter except for the fact that he was a lurker. Can you explain what you were thinking of bluelightz at the time, and also what is your current read on the guy? The reason i mentioned bluelightz was because i thought clarity's case on him was decent. And i wasn't sure if adam was scum and i had no interest in joining the tunkeg lynch at that moment or lynching my self for that matter. But going over bluelightz filter i have more of a null read on him. While it is possible that he could of been bussing adam. I dont know i think the vote was to close for the majorty of the scum team to be bussing. We are sure to find a scum in the people that didnt vote adam. I would be much happier to kill Djodref as he hasn't done anything remotely town like yet this game.
Who would you kill besides Djo?
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Yea I'll have to reassess Tunkeg
I really thought him to be scum day 1 and thought he might be town since he included Adam as scum in his lists, but then again, that might not mean much, because Adam was pretty likely to get lynched when Tunkeg martyred.
I'm off to sleep, Gnight
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@Tunkeg
On December 13 2012 18:36 Tunkeg wrote:
So WBG was a jk this game. So my entire scum or stupid analysis on him was wrong. He turened out to be just stupid.
Also anyone doubting clarity's claim is stupid. There is no reason at all for a scum clarity to claim such a hit. He had alot of towncred allready, a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar.
Scum don't have a vig, as they would have taken out Palmar with it, doublestacking. Or perhaps some other vet they view as dangerous. With no vig they went for the best safe option, taking out someone who by pushing Adam early was looking very townie, and who wasn't likely to be protected.
On December 13 2012 18:49 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar huh? Like, the way you and Hapa keep attesting that anyone doubting his claim is stupid, you mean like that kind of put on the radar?
Palmar are you at least following what I'm saying? It has put him back on the radar. People are looking into him again. Clarity had so much towncred before this hit, that scum would probably put some other guy to claim if they wanted to claim. Also scum would never hit WBG in the shitty position he was in. I find it very likely he would have been lynched day 2 had he not been shot. I would definately have voted for him today.
Why are you insistent about clarity having lots of towncred? The way I see it Clar was not exactly mr. town, especially with posts like these:
On December 13 2012 08:49 Palmar wrote:No, I think you're more likely to be scum than him.
On December 13 2012 08:51 Palmar wrote:
honestly it bothers me quite a bit clarity seems not very interested in killing bugs, and did not want to kill adam yesterday.
On December 13 2012 09:00 debears wrote:
I agree with palmar on clarity for now
Floating about. Care to explain?
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On December 13 2012 18:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:43 Palmar wrote:
oh right, I thought you meant he was trolling me about misusing the words, which I never do.
I want to add this thought about Tunkeg's martyr post. Remember that if we assume he is scum, he knows bugs and I are both town, so what are the implications if I fail to stop the wagon that at the time was on him and swing it over to Adam? If he's scum he leaves a lot of things to be considered if he flips, and "opinions" on two loud town players between Bugs and I.
My initial thoughts were that if he is scum, he wouldn't dare leave such strong opinions on us, especially as I had already voiced my suspicions of Bugs, and scum calling him scum then flipping scum would probably make me rethink the issue.
I still feel the most reasonable explanation is that Tunkeg isn't scum.
In one sense, I agree, however Adam left us with something pretty similar as well. I guess my objection to the martyr post is the attitude of - "oh I'm getting lynched, guess I'll finally get around to provide some reads but w/e I'm dead I'll be playing dota"
And you were saying his concise read on WBG made him look worse, that he'd be looking much better if he had a more flimsy stance:
On December 13 2012 12:12 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 12:01 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote:On December 13 2012 11:51 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 10:17 Hapahauli wrote:
Between Bluelightz and Tunkeg for me atm. Tunkeg's martyr post doesn't look too hot right now given WBG's flip. Hapa, can you elaborate? Why do you think that Tunkeg looks worse now that WBG has flipped? Part of the reason I was leaning town on him was because I agreed with his read on WBG (martyr post). Since it was wrong though, there's not much else in that post of substance. Some obvious town reads, obvious scum read in Adam, seemingly easy case on Jay... it looks far less townie than it first appeared to me. So if he had given wbg a town read, would he have been looking better atm? I'd say he would have looked better if he expressed some more doubt or skepticisim. On a second readthrough of his filter (WBG-tunnelvision-off), his martyr post reads a lot like "oh since I might get lynched, I'll finally bother to post some reads."
Palmar is saying the exact opposite:
My initial thoughts were that if he is scum, he wouldn't dare leave such strong opinions on us, especially as I had already voiced my suspicions of Bugs, and scum calling him scum then flipping scum would probably make me rethink the issue.
Which is the "sense" you agree with Palmar about about?
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@Djodref
You bring an interesting point regarding Tunkeg's "shying away" from Palmar. It's additional fluff for him not to actually scumhunt.
I don't understand this passage, though, where you are calling it a scumslip:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=69#1361
Calling people dumb like this (reference to potential jailkeepers) is a scumslip. You call town players dumb and bad, mafia players are just mafia players 
Can you elaborate?
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Thrawn, you've been suggesting how I'm not posting as much as usual for quite a while, but that's pretty different from me actually being a lurker. It also has nothing to do with me being scum. I think you are trying to add cherries on a cake that doesn't exist, by blatantly misrepresenting facts and saying things I never did.
1. suspicion on you
You say I said in my first post I was suspicious of you for not having scum reads. Funny how you didn't quote my post. Here's what I actually said:
Thrawn, here you mention that this was all intended to find scum pursuing you. So... now that the cards have been flipped, what the hell are your conclusions??
See, you didn't go anywhere near about explaining your vote on bugs. To be honest, I hadn't even seen you had voted for bugs, because I was expecting an actual analysis out of your little play, but now that I read your filter, I see that you actually did post a one liner saying "bugs came out looking worse, voted him in the thread".
2. bugs' 80%.
You say I wanted to lynch bugs because his number was "mathematically incorrect". His number is fine, his logic was bad. However, I never said I wanted to lynch bugs at that time, a blatant lie.
I wanted him to explain, he did, and I decided to move on because this wasn't gonna help me get anywhere.
3. Post on munk-E.
You say this is an example of having issue with dumb stuff. How in the hell is it dumb to be suspicious of someone who says "I disagree with his logic. I think he is town". You are calling it dumb because of lack of examples I think, but no, it's not "dumb stuff".
4. Tunnel on Djo.
Again, another blatant misrepresentation. I didn't drop my Djo case because of "1 small part of my argument being mistaken". I dropped it for the reasons I fucking said in my post:
You're not getting lynched today and we need to consolidate... so
5. critique on debears
I criticized debears for using bad logic and twisting adam's words. While Adam was in fact scum, it is still pretty evident that debears was twisting a looot of words to make his case. I didn't attack him because he attacked Adam.
6. I am a lurker
Naw. I may be posting less, but I'm not a lurker. It should be clear from my filter that I'm actually trying, despite having less posts. Because I actually am.
7. I tunneled Djo pretty much for the rest of day one
Absolute bs. Like you even noted, I dropped my pursuit of him entirely and went after Tunkeg and tried very hard to push tunkeg, because I really thought he was scum. Unfortunately for me, Adam the counter-lynch came up as scum. Too bad for me I disagreed with the cases on him (mainly because of debears).
So here are SEVEN mirepresentations in which you distort, lie, and exaggerate things I've said or done.
Now to the actual part of your case in which you did not imagine things to suit your arguments.
->I'm wrong a lot - Well, deal with it. Can't punish me for being wrong.
->I'm more passive - I'm posting less. I'm on vacation and don't spend most my time in my computer like when I was in school. I'm also pursuing my reads quite a bit when I feel good about them. Just read the part you ignored when making your case.
->Soft defense on Adam. I was pushing Tunkeg like mad, and it never went past three votes. Adam, on the other hand, gained 9 votes on a case full of word-twisting and exaggeration. Since I thought Tunkeg was scum and Adam was town, then, well, it makes sense for me to feel there was more Tunkeg resistance than Adam.
->I didn't bus - Yea, because unfortunately I didn't know Adam was scum and didn't have the option to bus. Too bad for me I was wrong on Adam.
->I'm not around for the lynch - Suck it up.
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On December 14 2012 09:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:27 Z-BosoN wrote:@DjodrefYou bring an interesting point regarding Tunkeg's "shying away" from Palmar. It's additional fluff for him not to actually scumhunt. I don't understand this passage, though, where you are calling it a scumslip: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=69#1361Calling people dumb like this (reference to potential jailkeepers) is a scumslip. You call town players dumb and bad, mafia players are just mafia players Can you elaborate? @ Z-BosonShow nested quote +On December 13 2012 00:36 Tunkeg wrote:On December 13 2012 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
Directing the jailkeeper when his target is "so obvious only a retard would not" is dumb and useless and throwing WIFOM in the air for no reason. If the target is so obvious why are you even saying it? Well, there are some seriously dumb people playing this game. If they happened to roll jk they need to be told what to do. For me, this totally could be a scumslip. Who he is talking about ? How does he know who is actually dumb (potential jks) and who is just playing dumb on purpose (potential mafia players) ? It could be easily explained if he had extra info on players alignment, if he is mafia for example. Honestly, I wouldn't have worried so much about this post if Tunkeg hadn't totally shied away from Palmar when he started to ask questions about it. I could totally see a town player post like this but his reaction feels forced. Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 00:45 Tunkeg wrote:On December 13 2012 00:40 Palmar wrote:On December 13 2012 00:36 Tunkeg wrote:On December 13 2012 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
Directing the jailkeeper when his target is "so obvious only a retard would not" is dumb and useless and throwing WIFOM in the air for no reason. If the target is so obvious why are you even saying it? Well, there are some seriously dumb people playing this game. If they happend to roll jk they need to be told what to do. Please list the people dumb enough. Nah, its the same people I have called dumb earlier. Maybe they haven't noticed or forgot. Don't want to insult them more, they might just not do as told to spite me. Like, seriously, what the fuck is that kind of line of thinking ? Why the JK would like to listen to Tunkeg at the first place ? Why would he be emotional ? And now I'm not going to speculate because I have learned from my previous games that this will almost always be futile, especially when we are still in day 2.
Now I see what you mean. It makes a lot of sense, and it goes along with the fact that I feel Tunkeg seems waaaay too certain of his reads this game.
Btw, corrected your post ^^
I'll revert back to my original thoughts on Tunkeg. I to this day have not gotten over on how he ignored a case I made on a "suspicion" he had.
##Vote Tunkeg
Also
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EBWOP:
Also, what do you think of Jay?
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lol now that's an unfortunate quote right there =p
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*It has nothing to do with me being scum or not*
I'm glad Jay decided to jump on that though. We'll have a chat tomorrow when I'm less sleepy.
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On December 14 2012 19:20 thrawn2112 wrote:palmar, look through boson's filter. imo his interactions with adam are scummier than djod's. the greatest degree of interaction between them I can find is boson attacking debears for attacking adam. example: Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
@debears
I see you've got some Adam going on for ya. I think you are getting too riled up over expecting someone to go balls out on a day one suspicion.
You, for example, are not nearly as spammy as your day one self. I don't think this aligns with your townie play, but I don't think it necessarily makes you scummy.
I am curious to hear from adam his stance on thrawn, as he seemed to have dropped it.. note that the only thing this posts accomplishes is soft defending adam. he doesn't call adam townie or scummy, nor does he call debears townie or scummy Here's the most in depth thing boson had to say about adam: Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 02:09 Z-BosoN wrote:Well, like I said, debears seems to be doing some massive twisting of words to me. What I found suspicious on Adam's filter is this contradiction in his idea of a case -> vote relationship, which I'd like him to explain. He first criticizes debears for not voting him after making a case and votes him: On December 10 2012 13:07 Adam4167 wrote:In fact, why are you not voting me dabears? On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote:
@Djo
The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum.
His reaction is feeling very forced You say you don't like me (I assume this means you think i'm scum?), you find my lack of vote strange and that my reactions feel forced. Why make a case like this if you aren't going to follow it with a vote? ##Vote: dabears This is funny to say the least, because later on, though, when he's made a case on vivax, here's his stance when questioned on why he wasn't voting vivax: On December 11 2012 23:35 Adam4167 wrote:
I wanted to see what you had to say about my case before I made a definitive call on you.
Your response was interesting to me, because while you openly admit to not reading the thread and making shit accusations, I honestly wouldn't ever expect that level of honesty from a scum. I mean, it's ok that he makes a huge case and doesn't vote, but when debears did that it made him scum? Weird. Since we need to consolidate though, I am more confident in a Tunkeg lynch at the moment. Imo this is one of boson's scummiest posts. He does bring up issues with adam's play but ends up dismissing it as "weird." That one word "weird" is what does it for me. and as an added bonus, boson does not appear in adam's final list of reads
Thrawn stop making dumb arguments, for the love of god. "I do not appear in adam's final list of reads?". Really, that's what you came up with after I refuted all of your idiot points?
Also, I made that post about adam because I was asked to look into him. I only found that small contradiction, but I wasn't gonna capitalize on it because I didn't think he was scum.
If one word is what makes you think I'm scum, then you really need to learn how to play mafia.
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@Palmar
Why do you have a town read on jay this game? Here is a case I was writing but saw you declaring him town and kinda stopped cause I wanna hear what you have to say about it, this part, specifically.
I don't like jay this game. He's been on the back of my head for most of the game, but this post right here caught my attention:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=76#1508
To put it in simpler words, he's basically saying Clarity and Palmar are scum based on some crazy conspiracy theory. Stupid dumb play and an easy way to make it seem like you are actually thinking about the game. His next post is what makes it even worse:
On December 14 2012 06:44 jaybrundage wrote:
^ These are the kinda posts that make people wanna mislynch me
He acknowledges that his posts make people want to mislynch him, yet makes the post all the same.
Of course, all this is not what he really thinks. Because suddenly:
On December 14 2012 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:
Annnnyway, Now that I expressed my random thoughts on Clarity and Palmar.
Anyone still down for a Djodref lynch?
##Unvote
##Vote Djodref
And when I made the "scumslip", he immediately dropped his vote on Djodref on me:
On December 14 2012 14:43 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 14:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Thrawn, you've been suggesting how I'm not posting as much as usual for quite a while, but that's pretty different from me actually being a lurker. It also has nothing to do with me being scum. ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson
He keeps referring to himself as lynch bait through-out the whole game, and seems to be trying to stay consistent with that.
So yea, it doesn't seem like he is even trying to scumhunt..
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On December 15 2012 02:30 Clarity_nl wrote:
Zbo why so scummy? Jay's been like that all game, you act as if you just noticed.
And what are you getting at? He's town because of it?
As you can tell from my filter, he's been in the back of my mind during quite some time.
I want to understand Palmar's town read on him (and apparently yours too).
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On December 15 2012 03:50 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 03:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 15 2012 02:30 Clarity_nl wrote:
Zbo why so scummy? Jay's been like that all game, you act as if you just noticed. And what are you getting at? He's town because of it? As you can tell from my filter, he's been in the back of my mind during quite some time. I want to understand Palmar's town read on him (and apparently yours too). No, I don't have a townread on him at all, but your post of suddenly noticing he's been scummy all game is worrisome. I cannot remember you mentioning jay being a worry of yours but I haven't read your filter thoroughly, nows a good a time as any
Yea, try reading before you open your mouth. That certainly helps
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@VivaxOn December 15 2012 01:22 Vivax wrote:
Palmar just doesn't remember my defense of our JK against Palmars shit-tier spamming post before he got shot by our supersmart vigi.
NOW THAT'S something scum would do. Defend a townie when everyone's shitting on him.Blending in like from the handbook.
Instead he prefers to assume that only scum would defend other scum day1, the day where every townie knows exactly where to find the first successful lynch by sheeping his majesty of Eyjafjallajökullfuckyou.
Do you think Palmar is scum or are you just casually suggesting this?
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On December 15 2012 04:03 Clarity_nl wrote:You mentioned jay surprisingly little, in fact I'd say you've soft-defended him more than you've called him scum. Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:46 Z-BosoN wrote:
If not Tunkeg, I'd be satisfied with a jay lynch. Dudes gone awol and his recent posting is not at all acceptable.
I really need to leave in a couple of minutes. You first mention. You'd be "satisfied" with a jay lynch. But 11 minutes later.... Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:57 Z-BosoN wrote:
Ok, now I really gotta go.
I'm not really feeling bluelightz or jay yet, tbh.
Adam I feel he's just being a lurky town.
Sticking with Tunkeg.
You're not feeling a jay lynch? But you just said you'd be satisfied with a jay lynch.... Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 12:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 11:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Also Z-Bo, who's your top scumread now in the face of the WBG flip? Still Vivax? No, tbh I don't think vivax is scum anymore. Despite his weird-as-fuck vote on Adam, the rest of his play feels to me like he is involved. Jay isn't looking too hot, and neither is Djo. VE is also someone I have to look more carefully, as well as yourself. Point a gun to my head and I'd say jay. He's scum again, because of the adam flip and wbg flip? Do you have some association case that I haven't seen? Fact of the matter is he hasn't scumhunted, he looked very scummy day 1 and he hasn't done anything since. The thing that bothers me is that you act as if you just noticed, and when I call you on it you backtrack and say "he's been in the back of my head for a while, look at my posts". I just did, I don't see it. So I ask again, why so scummy?
From one of my posts that you just quoted:
Dudes gone awol and his recent posting is not at all acceptable.
That means I did notice it earlier! Hooray!
I'd been satisfied with a jay lynch, sure. But I wanted to lynch Tunkeg. I felt Tunkeg was a better lynch. I did not feel like jay was a better lynch. Where is the contradiction?
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Clarity, don't play the idiot. Just because you didn't type "contradiction" doesn't mean you tried pointing out a contradiction:
You're not feeling a jay lynch? But you just said you'd be satisfied with a jay lynch....
Also, you are saying I am acting like I didn't notice it earlier. Except I did, proven by the post I quoted. Whether I found him scummy/unacceptable is something you are bringing up now. Why are you this inquisitive about me agreeing with Jay being scum?
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Oh, and to be clear, unacceptable == scummy, since that needs spelling out for you.
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@Hapa
Yes, quite. I dunno if you already mentioned Jay, but what do you make of him?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png)
