EPTOn December 19 2012 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm i wanna say Z-boson from my gut read. But its nothing else besides that.
Hm i wanna say Z-boson from my gut read. But its nothing else besides that.
ok, I'm waiting for your case against Z-Bo then.
Hero Mini Mafia - Page 15
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ok, I'm waiting for your case against Z-Bo then. | ||
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On December 19 2012 18:59 Bluelightz wrote: How I feel? I feel kinda discouraged from as I said, people shutting down me from speaking anything like what thrawn did (not that it's a scummy thing he did that cuz I guess it's normal trying to shut scum from squirming in the thread assuming I am hypothetically scum). Also, considering the likely chance I will live in LYLO, I just don't wanna get lynched AGAIN. (Can't tell you how many times I've been lynched during LYLO/fucked up during it). If you guys consider me scum - fine, it's not my responsibility to shoulder the blame for my mislynch. I think you have a good chance now to speak without being shut down. How are you feeling about this lynch ? Confident that we are going to hit scum ? Who would be the remaining scum if jay flips red and why ? Who would you have as scum if jay flips green ? | ||
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I have jay at scum at 95%. Hapa as scum at 80%. So, the good play is to lynch jay first, but I understand your feeling and I agree that we need discussion. Could you prepare us a case against Hapa ? | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:48 Vivax wrote: How about this as an apéritif, mon ami of the Grand Nation? This kind of things are not really relevant. Town slips and mafia slips. In that case, we could have Z-Bo as scum as well  | ||
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I'm very interested in your opinion on Vivax | ||
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It's always more difficult to come up with cases as scum... | ||
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On December 11 2012 21:24 Vivax wrote: I've read Adams filter. So basically, the case on him seems to be built on "the change of tone in his post". That post with changed tone dabears mentioned was written one day after the last ones, so it's likely that he's writing like that cause he's not heated up like the day before. That day, he finished into an OMGUS fight with dabears, where they basically both vote for each other cause they argue about having to vote for the people you lean scum on. And this is where the matter stinks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=9#171 This is dabeers post about Adam. OH SHIT HE'S SUSPICIOUS CAUSE HE'S NOT VOTING FOR THRAWN. Look at the post, look at the voting thread, look at the reactions. Adam voted before debears upon being accused by him of not voting thrawn, meanwhile, dabears accused Adam of something he himself did. Only clarity so far has expressed criticism of this case against Adam, now I will, too. 1.The case is shit 2.The case is shit 3.The case is shit Being this a shit case accepted by many people, I think there's scum trying to sheep in it. and also this post On December 17 2012 02:38 Vivax wrote: What's off about VE is that he defended Tunkeg against some pretty strong cases before the Adam lynch,namely by marv. + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote: This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam. I'd have expected a scum VE to profit of the situation by helping a player with a good reputation like marv to push his lynch and take away attention from the Adam lynch. Him trying to lynch jay isn't compatible with theories involving both of them in a scum team either.Additionally, most people were mostly disinterested in a jay lynch, and that stinks of him being scum. Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been. + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it? To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion. Then the case about a clarity scum vigi, initially I didn't believe it either, but it was actually possible. I'm not lynching VE today. That said, I suggest that Djo and others should at least elaborate my points. That leaves me with following targets: Jay or BL today. Marv maybe some other day. and this post On December 18 2012 01:36 Vivax wrote: Essentially, no one said why the fuck we are lynching VE, so I think I'd provide a nice summary of his play. He suspected Adam, confirmed clarity, made a case on me, made a case on jay, defended Tunkeg(!), voted Adam, shouted at Djo for the counterbandwagon, but was willing to switch to jay over Adam. Adam dies. Night: I found a lie/mistake in his posts: If I didn't overlook anything, he NEVER cared about bugs. He first mentions him when he agrees with Adams reads, and that's what he has to say about him: And after Adam flipped scum, VE said that he has suspected Bugs before the flip. This at a timing where everybody became interested in him. This might quite be a slip. Then he defended BL against claritys case, posted some stuff against Bugs before he got lynched, and comes back 14 hours later to post a case against clarity with the scumvigi theory. AND he overlooked that Marv got roleblocked that night + WBGs crumb: 8 hours later, he expresses his willingness to sheep Palmar and to lynch Tunkeg, Djo and Clarity. However, he didn't care about Djo during the night when Bugs was being attacked, and he didn't care about the interactions of Tunkeg with bugs before trying to convince us of a scum vigi clarity. But these were the reasons he gave us for suspecting the two. Out of nothing he writes a case against Z-Boson after that joke-slip he pointed out, expresses again doubts about Tunkeg being scum, then starts writing about jay and BL rubbing him wrong. Overall, quite a solid lynch for today. The only townie things I could see would be his defence of Tunkeg and him telling Djo to stop starting a counterwagon. Like, I wondered if he was trying to get town cred with the last post. I've made an extensive case against VE before and also I don't see why would be the town motivation for this post. | ||
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I mean, I have a town read on Vivax right now, but there is still a slight possibility for him to be scum... Same with Z-Bo, he has been pretty townie this game, but his play is a little too 'clean', and he does fly under the radar. But this also speaks again a town Hapa. In Hapa shoes, I would be much more paranoid than he is. Hapa is basically saying that we have to lynch BL and that's going to be GG... | ||
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On December 20 2012 10:40 marvellosity wrote: Because I'm lazy and I remembered I'd said it months ago somehow: Vivax has done questionable things, but if he hadn't I'd ironically think he'd probably be scum. He's clearly pouring effort into this game even though it's horrendously unfocused, and there are many posts where he shows he's attentively read the thread or what people have said, mixed in with posts where it seems he hasn't read the thread at all. I don't see much point talking about Vivax when he's pretty clearly town. Honestly, I rarely go read players other games... I know it's really more likely for him to be town than scum. But, yeah, discussing a little about it doesn't really hurt. I don't want us to lose this game because we got lazy at the end. Jay being totally inactive right now is a good corroboration fact for him to be scum, so I'm really confident in his lynch. But I'm not that confident that we are going to win this game if you mindlessly lynch Hapa and BL. | ||
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On December 20 2012 10:26 marvellosity wrote: because Vivax is pushing him so hard you mean? In fact, I like this part ^^ | ||
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Why are you taking the backseat ? I mean that you are here and provide some good advice, but you are not leading... Who would you like to lynch after jay and why ? | ||
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On December 20 2012 13:01 Z-BosoN wrote: @Djo Also tell me, If jay for some (miraculous) reason flips town, who would you say is scum? I guess, Hapa first, then BL... | ||
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On December 20 2012 12:54 Z-BosoN wrote: Can you elaborate why you think my play has been "too clean"? You look too town to be town You only present solid cases, you don't make random comments that could make you look bad. You are pretty solid this game, I would be impressed if you turn out to be mafia. | ||
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 Also, just to give you some heads-up, I'm going to take a flight back to Paris in 12 hours for my annual holidays in France. My activity is going to drop very soon because I don't see my family and my friends in France often so they are going to resent it if I spend too much time in front of my computer. Also I don't have an internet phone back home. | ||
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On December 20 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote: Some thoughts before I go to bed: There are three possible explanations for the mafia KP: 1) Mafia are inactive/demotivated and forgot to submit KP. 2) Mafia decided to withhold KP 3) Mafia are making some WIFOM play Option 2: I don't consider option two very likely. Withholding KP only makes sense as a play if someone is worried about explaining why they are alive so late in the game. The only person that makes sense for is marv, who made a similar play in Normal Mini Mafia III as scum. However, it's very doubtful that marv is scum at this stage. Firstly, his meta strongly suggests that he's town. While there's a temptation to think that scum marv is super active all the time, that's just not true. Scum marv can be very active in the early game to build town credit. After that, he seems just as content to coast on his town cred. This is the complete opposite from this game, where he's still active and still very clearly trying to figure things out. In addition, a hypothetical scum-marv could simply kill a player like thrawn (whom everyone has had a town read on since D1) and come out looking fine. There's very little chance that marv is scum, or that any other player would have made this play. Option 3: The only person that a WIFOM play makes sense for is a veteran player who is in danger of getting lynched trying to confuse the town. Rather, it only makes sense for me if I was scum. While it will ring hollow for me to say that "I wouldn't do such a thing," consider what possible scum motives I could have for such a play. There's zero strategical incentive here for me not to kill someone. In fact, if I were scum, I'd increase my chances of survival by killing a player like Djo, thrawn, or Vivax, who have been death-tunneling me for a few days now. But if you still think I'm WIFOM bombing or something, I refer you to Occam's Razor. What requires more insane assumptions... me pulling this play, or the scumteam simply being too inactive to submit a kill? Option 1: This is the only reasonable explanation for the lack of NK in my mind, and it pretty strongly points to a lurker scumteam. Jay: I'd rather not belabor the point - pretty much everyone in the thread has outlined the reason's he's scum at this point. Bluelightz: Bluelightz is the only reasonable lurker that could be scum. His filter is also not very pretty. I'll do something in more detail tomorrow, but I'm very surprised why people are buying into his "demotivated" act. In Rockband Mini, I tunneled the hell out of him (along with several other players). Despite being tunneled under similar circumstances to this game, never once did he get demotivated - he was very proactive and resilient in his defense. Just read his filter... it's night and day from his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=235418 Furthermore, he's not getting tunneled at all right now. While I'd understand (and sympathise) with his demotivation earlier, there's just no reason for him to be so lazy in the current situation. He's not under major pressure or anything. In fact many players are trying to encourage him to post. Instead of being constructive, he offers random comments and leaves for hours on end. Z-Boson I think there's an outside chance that Z-Boson could be scum, however given how hard that both Jay and VE pushed him on Day 2, I highly doubt he's mafia. Admittedly I have not read through his filter recently. I'll verify this tomorrow. Grush: My favorite post on GRush is this post by austinmcc in PTP3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=85#1693 I think it outlines the differences between scum and town GRush pretty well. In GRush's scumgames, there are certain posts in his filter for which the only objective is to be antagonistic or trolly. In this game, GRush is remarkably constructive. Even if sheepy, his posts are playful and straightforward. There's no trolling, no antagonism, and no traces of scum GRush this game. Why did you use mafia KP speculation as an argument to exonerate yourself and incriminate BL ? I didn't anyone but you giving this importance to the fact that there was no KP. This kind of thing generally indicates a mafia mindset, don't you agree ? | ||
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Speculation like this or giving too much importance to night actions and night kills is generally a mafia trait. I admit that I used to do it as town but it has getting me mislynched ^^ | ||
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