Paranoia Mafia - Page 52

On December 01 2012 11:01 Blazinghand wrote:
DP is scum btw

As town he throws around 1-liners and votes aggressively with questionable amounts of explanation. He doesn't afraid of anyone. As scum he's still aggressive, but he's very methodological. Up until his post on Lazermonkey he was playing more like his town meta but town DP rarely/never makes big posts like that, especially early game. Contrast his D1 play in Mario Mini (town) where he drops votes like they're hot (link) (link) with his game in LC where he writes out long posts that look exactly like this lazermonkey post (link) (note: this one ends in an FoS because Marv was being lynched that game).

This is now aggro town DP this is plodding scum DP.

##vote DarthPunk

On December 01 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:


Yeah DP I'm gonna be real here you're playing quite a bit like scum DP. But Marv is.. sigh... right and WBG contradicting himself on his face like that really REALLY is scummier than you playing to your scum meta. You've got no credibility with me baby.

On December 01 2012 17:08 Blazinghand wrote:
I have no comments on WBG at this time other than that his explanation for his statements on xatalos is acceptable to me.

How scummy are you based on this meta case that you claim has exceptions but really only has one exception, which is a newbie game, your first game ever as town? Very scummy. How scummy are you based on the fact you clearly didn't read or click through the links on the case but just blindly attacked it, and me, and despite calling me scummy are afraid to vote me due to my veteran status? Very scummy. I've got nothing to say to you or in response to any of your statements about Lazermonkey.

On December 01 2012 16:58 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, btw, the fact that you think I didn't read your mini mafia filter when it's one of the things I linked in my case against you indicates to me even more that you really didn't read my case. All you care about is squirming your way out of this lynch like the slimy scum player you are. At LEAST read the case against you, man!

On November 13 2012 15:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Z-BosoN should be aware it's on him as a non-DT-checkable player to distinguish himself as town, and what he's posted so far is all bullshit. ZB wanted a wagon to hop on with minimal discussion, so he puked some posts out into the thread and slapped down some poop vote. He voted debears, but unvoted him basically immediately. His reason for voting debears is also crap since debears doesn't see a need to worry about ZB right away.

ZB says this:


and that's basically wrong. The fact that debears essentially ignores ZB's claim (which is the right move-- it's clearly a null tell) is COMPLETELY normal. And look at this sentence from ZB-- it's a meta case about debears comparing meta from PREVIOUSLY IN THE THREAD. That's not meta. That's bullshitting.

Z-B iquickly moves over to another shitcase before peacing out of the thread:



S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it:



First off, a crap explanation. Everyone wants to appear as town cause getting lynched hurts your side no matter whether you're town or scum. A more correct explanation would talk about how VTs wouldn't claim VT because it narrows down potential blue snipes, and how he believes S&B was serious and not joking in that post. A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation.

ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Let's splatter this guy.

##vote: Z-Boson

On November 13 2012 15:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Kickstart it's interesting to hear what you have to say about the S&B wagon being bad, but it's more important to hear what you think in terms of who you think the scum is. Be forceful. Check out my masterful post attacking ZB for an example of what you should do. Just calling people town or making weak questionings of Hapa wont' help. If you think Hapa is scum, go prove it. be a man. do the right thing.

On November 13 2012 16:48 Blazinghand wrote:
well, it was bad before because S&B's scum play isn't like this. He's a bit more aggressive and not afraid to stake out positions. But now it's infinitely worse cause you cowered away and said it was just pressure. Be a man and vote for someone you want to actually lynch. How can anyone hold people accountable for votes that are "just pressure?"

Read and comment on my ZB case. It's not worthless like your crap vote on S&B: I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum. be useful and vote to lynch someone, not to "pressure" them. Or if you're gonna pressure someone, at least don't tell him you're doing it.

._.

On November 13 2012 17:03 Blazinghand wrote:


cause he's town. it's not my job to defend the man, just to point out the scum on his wagon. read his filter and tell me that's scum S&B seriously dude

On November 13 2012 17:06 Blazinghand wrote:


Lol say something about ZB plz

On November 01 2012 04:44 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been back and posting. Gonzaw. Basically, Adam typically opens up with big paragraphs and direct Q/A (see any of his games for examples of this). However, in games like TL Mafia LI when he rolls scum, he also opens up with big pieces of analysis, and more importantly, he hides behind questioning other players. In NMM III, he jumps in (as a replacement, admittedly), with accusations and direct confrontation against SS.

Arkham City, although a bit on the old side, shows a classic "Adam as town opening post"



This is a post where he lays down solid opinions, makes a case and a post, and although his vote on JB isn't great, he gets his stuff together. Even in our first game together, Student Mafia, he comes out strong, actively assessing players in the thread and laying down reads, not asking pointless questions. Here's his first posts from this game, as a contrast:



He's operating under a posting restriction, sure, but look at what he's doing: he's stalling, deflecting, and asking questions rather than making statements and putting on pressure. After I call him out, he says this:



This is not town Adam. Town Adam is fearless, open with his thoughts, and votes at the drop of a hat. In fact, here's town Adam's opinion of my play from our last game together, our first newbie game:



This is a response of a player who doesn't already know the alignment of the guy he's talkign with, a player who's trying to reason things out and learn. He wants to use my activity as a tool for himself (in this game I threw a vote on him very early with minimal evidence as well). He wants to figure out what I'm doing, who I am, and how to use me to find scum, if I'm not scum. He immediately channels his responses to the early aggression into useful channels.

He does none of that this game.

Adam is scum. Easy.

On November 01 2012 05:50 Blazinghand wrote:


Frankly, I'm dissapointed in you, Gonzaw. Usually scum players don't reveal they're not reading the thread until much later in the game. AFter all, you were fully aware that I had previously made a post outside the alphabet rules:



And that post, in fact, is the one in which I talked about my interaction with the posting restriction.



So, did you not read my post, or did you read my post?

Furthermore, given that there were like 2 posts in the hour between my last post and this one, I'd hardly say i'm stifling discussion. This is also a call-out of crossfire, who thinks his monstrosity of an unreadable post (here) is somehow better than 1 hour intervals between thoughtful, reasonable cases. For what it's worth, I simply think crossfire is bad rather than scum. I'd be interested to know how gonzaw seems to have responded to and yet overlooked my personal view of the alphabet rules. And for what it's worth, I don't utterly ignore them-- I just ignore them when I can write a clearer, better message without them. It's more important I do that than I post more than 1 time per hour.

As a particular response to crossfire's colossal lack of reading comprehension (which goes well with his writing style:



Ready the sentence after your bolds. Adam is a confrontational player as town, and is a questioning player as scum. He opens with votes and cases, NOT with analysis and questioning, when he is town. His opening this game, with analysis and questioning instead of jumping out the gate with a major case, is clearly playing to his scum meta. I'm amazed you read my case and didn't understand this.

I have no interest in commenting on Keirathi at this time. No cases in this game are currently as good as my case on Adam, which gonzaw is oddly non-committal on.

On November 01 2012 06:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Crossfire, I have no issues with you personally. I don't currently think you're scum. You just need to get your act together. You do realize that posting a massive wall of illegible garbage HURTS town, right? That the reason Mementoss is voting you, even though he thinks you have a good chance of flipping town, is that he literally can't understand what you're saying?

As an aside, my posts might not follow the alphabet rule, but i have the correct time between them, and by being clear when I'm not playing along, I'm infinitely more respectful to the spirit of the game than guys who slap letters at the start of their posts. But that' s not even the point. My role PM doesn't say that my job is to earn points in minigames; my Role PM doesn't say that my job is to play in the spirit of WLIIA; my role PM, and your role PMs, if you are town, says you win when all the scum are dead. I will not water down my analysis and play against my win con, and neither should you.

The spirit of this game is lynching scum. Anything less than trying your hardest to win is not appropriate. When this can fit into alphabetical order and get the point across, I'll gladly do it. And when it won't, I will, within the guidelines set out in the OPs, not follow the alphabetical order.

More specifically regarding your critique of my Adam case, you're missing the point again. Adam does eventually get confrontational (and FourFace was an unbelievably, immeasurably bad player who I believe got banned or something), but as scum he is more cautious. He probes first, then leaps. He is playing with his scum mindset this game, or at least he was while he was still posting in the thread. Look at his opening posts-- the questions, the lack of a commitment, and most importantly the lack of a case and a vote-- this is how he plays as scum.

---

gonzaw-- I'm willing to buy that you did in fact read my post, just not very carefully.



I don't know how this seems to be dogmatically in favor of using the 1-hour wait method at all times or the rhyming method at all times. You should read my posts more clearly and think a bit harder about the game. Part of the reason I'm on your ass is that you're not playing like you normally do. This focus from you, and the lack of serious pressure on multiple targets, that's not like you. The gonzaw I know, when he plays town, has fullisades of questions for everyone. Why just this one Keirathi case? Where's your usual constant interrogation and probing of everyone in the town? I remember your posts as being kinda annoying and having formatting issues, and maybe being unfocused, but also being unrelenting in their pressure on multiple targets. What gives?

---

By the way, Mementoss, if your reasoning for voting Crossfire is entirely that he is hard to understand, that's fine, but bear in mind you're basically lynching him for being bad and playing anti-town, but not necessarily for playing like scum. I personally read him as a confused townie who doesn't understand he needs to play to his wincon. He'll shape up. He's not a terrible D1 lynch, but honestly if it comes down to it and nobody wants to go for Adam, I'd rather policy one of these inactive guys than do what's essentially a policy lynch on Crossfire for being illegible.

On September 18 2012 06:48 Blazinghand wrote:


You only ask this question or similar when you roll scum.

Scum games where you asked the question:
GSL Open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=126438
You open this game with


DF Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=126438
You wait quite a bit after the game start to open up with this:



The scum game in which you don't ask this question, you aggressively push a Policy Lynch of MrZ because he's a terrible player:
Movie Star: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346522&user=126438
And you open the attack like this:


What these openers all have in common is that they generate discussion and let you make accusations without backing them up, doing analysis, or generating associative tells. Obviously it's not perfect, since you caught some heat for it in Movie star, but you deflected the heat rather expertly in my opinion. Now, admittedly, the link between this openings seems tenuous at first glance. But the difference between how you open as scum and how you open as town is like night and day-- I've hosted and co-hosted enough games with you in it to tell the difference (yes, that's an appeal to authority, but it's a legitimate appeal).


Obviously, I want people to evaluate the evidence for themselves, so I'm gonna point out some Town games where you could have asked this question or similar, but quite notably did not, because you actually do the work yourself as Town. In fact, you never ask the question as town. Notably, you don't ask the question in the following games that had smurfs or people you hadn't played with before.

Town games, in which you don't ask the question:
Mad Men Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=126438
In this game, you roll town, and here's your opening post:


This is a real town post. Yeah, you get lynched D1 but you start off with not just some general platitudes about posting, you actually encourage the players you don't know to post. You don't ask inane questions. You're fearless, and aren't afraid to vote first (link) and ratchet up the pressure afterwards (link) which may not be the best strat, but is definitely townie. You are bullheaded with your reads and aggressive. You don't prod first then vote, you vote then prod. All this in a game in which admittedly there are people you don't know at all. It's what a townie would do.

In iGrok's Mini http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=126438 you had to replace in, and this was your opening post:


Obviously some of this was necessitated by replacing in for a lurking townie N1. But what's your followup? How does a town prplhz charge into a difficult game? Why, he votes first (link) and provides evidence and support later (link) (link) (link)

---

This covers just about everything going back through July, with one notable exception: You rolled scum in Normal Mini II and proceeded to play a highly worthless scumgame http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=126438 consisting mostly of votes and one-liners. I hope we'd lynch you for anything like this, but this is the one game that doesn't fit into this meta-analysis of your play this game, so I thought I'd bring it up. Scum prplhz doesn't ALWAYS ask inane questions / take baseless positions-- once, he voted randomly and only posted one-liners.

Still, I think the evidence is clear: prplhz as scum likes to ask dumb questions and take stances that don't reveal any scumhunting, and prplhz as town is aggressive with his vote and follows it up with questioning, rather than carefully prodding first. Town prplhz is fearless and not afraid to die to prove his point. He's not cautious. He's also not present this game. This is scum prplhz. Scum prplhz does vague prodding like he has in this game (link) and unhelpful questioning (his entire filter lol)

Also, from a purely analytical perspective, this isn't what a townie does. As a townie, yes, you ask questions, but you ask questions that are reasonable and that force people to respond in ways that reveal their scumminess. When you ask someone a question, you do it to pressure them and to get information. You do it for the town. Town prplhz would NOT ask this question:


Because Town ANYBODY would not ask that question. Numerous people answered it instantly (and also noted that prplhz already knew the answer himself) and it looked, at first, like it was a discussion-generator. It's not. Randomly regurgitating what games someone has replaced into isn't discussion. Prplhz isn't discussing things. He's just slapping shit in the thread and hoping we let him skate by. He's husslin us.

No more husslin.

##vote: prplhz

come at me bro

On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

On September 18 2012 07:03 Blazinghand wrote:


Not worth looking into until after we lynch Prplhz and flip town. Associative tells between unflipped players on D1 is dumb. Hapa is scummy or not scummy on the merits of his own posting, not how he interacts with Prplhz-- until of course, Prplhz flips.



Not a contradiction. Prplhz posts images like this as town all the time even when exhorting people not to be spammy. Hell, I do it all the time.



He's not scummy cause of his image post. That's not scummy at all. He's scummy because he's playing like scum prplhz and he's not hunting scum, and he's trying to look like a contributor when in fact he is not.

---

You're an idiot if you think that I accuse him of being disinterested as mafia. He did that in one game. In the other games, he prods and does literally what he's doing this game.

Read my damn case before you decide you have an opinion.

On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:


I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case.

I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue).

On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:


The fact of the matter is, as town prplhz is aggressive, throws his vote around, and is fearless, and in like 4 scum games he is the opposite. Sorry, is 4 scum games not enough to convince you to vote him? That's fine! Show me some counter-evidence! If you think he's genuinely town, you have 2 options to move my vote off him.

1) show me my case is wrong (rather than just poking at it ineffectually). I've seen you do this as town so I know you can.
2) present a better case.

If it's really a bad D1 case like you said, you should be able to do better. Do it. I'll vote who-ever is the scummiest in the thread and lynch scum. Right now, that's prplhz, and you have utterly failed to convince me otherwise.

On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:


Elaborate. Now.