EPTParanoia Mafia - Page 51
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
I cannot comprehend how there is so much doubt around my claim. You all must think I have balls of steel. My claim was in a farewell post, made ON the deadline. I didn't think it would save me. Nor can I think of a single example of scum claiming like that only to have themselves proven a liar 30 seconds later with the nightpost. I also didn't think claiming earlier would have saved me (which would have been like 10 minutes earlier, as that was when I sat back down to watch the nightpost). If there is something you should have learned about me from this game, or from looking at my previous games, is that I play slow, I try to write carefully, and I can be single-minded when I think I am right. None of these aspects fit with trying to spit out my few reads before I am mislynched and then a frustrated farewell (if I am scum). They do fit with a townie me, who is suddenly pressed for time to contribute what little I can before you kill me. You have all put me in a terrible position. Why? because all scum have to do is roleblock me tonight and you will all lynch me tomorrow and do their job for them. But whatever, there isn't anything I can do about that. I'll just try and catch scum in the time I have left, and hopefully that will convince you that I'm town. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Near lynch time, it was pretty clear that Marv was not getting lynched. What was and is your read on DYH? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
Think back to early in day 1 where debears was really going after me for my first post which boiled down to me not wanting people to sheep Ace because he was Ace. The back and forth between us lasted longer than it probably should have, but at the end of it one thing was sure. Nobody was going to be overtly sheeping Ace based on reputation. So then there were a couple posts which caught my eye from Ace: On December 01 2012 11:41 Ace wrote: Between VE, marv and that useless spambot BH something is off. I highly doubt all 3 are town and wouldn't be surprised if 2 of them were Scum or anti-town. At first I was reading and concentrating on the debears-ShaoiPi-DYH interaction but Blazinghand showed up and derailed it all. I was going to call him out for that terrible case on MrZ but he reneged on it, only to bring up a few more terrible cases on various people in the same format with no real effort to convince people on any of them. On December 02 2012 06:44 Ace wrote: No it just happens that those people caught my attention. Marv and BH were the ones I mentioned yesterday after the weird ShaoPi-VE-DP interaction. The thread just went an entire different direction after those 2 showed up. Other observations I'm keeping to myself for now. No need to point fingers all over the place. What do these posts do? they certainly don't provide any explanation for anything that he is saying. What I see them doing is spreading suspicion. Suddenly 3 of the more veteran players in the game besides Ace have 'something off' about them. "I highly doubt all 3 are town" is an easy statement to make as it reflects what pretty much all of us are thinking, but he takes it a step further and suggest that 2/3 are more likely than not to be scum. And what reasons do we have to suspect those three that we didn't have before Ace posted? None. Ace simply invites us to entertain the possibility, throws the weight of his name behind it, and let's our fears of being against a powerful scum team fill in the reasons for him. Then we get the debears-Shaoipi-DYH interaction (a strange name since I'm pretty sure I haven't interacted with Shaoipi). Now there are 3 more people that have had an interaction which caught Ace's eye. Again, Ace has managed to direct people's attention to targets of his choice without ever providing a reason aside from "I'm Ace". The interaction, renamed the Shaoipi-VE-DP interaction in the second post, but, as far as I can tell, is referencing the same thing as the first post (I could be wrong, but Ace certainly didn't make it easy on me, since he gives no details and no explanations) is now "weird". So what do those posts do? At their face they are meant to make us think that he is scumhunting, looking at things which your average player doesn't grasp. But what they actually do is prey on people's instinct to think "there must be something to these suspicions if Ace is spending his time on it". Ace wasn't trying to lead the town down the right or wrong path, he was simply facilitating the town destroying each other. P.S. It is also possible that he really just didn't give a crap about the town. It would really irritate me if he was playing against his win condition by making no attempt to win the rest of the town to his reads. Good night. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 02 2012 10:49 Blazinghand wrote: I explained why DP's exceptions didn't count, the only one that was sensible was the one from his newbie game, his first game as town. In retrospect, okay, that wasn't great. Like, yes, I was wrong, DP flipped town. And yes, I was the one who led the charge, so I deserve blame for that. In fact, I was ALSO the final, deciding vote in the final voteswitch AWAY from DYH and TO DP. DP's blood is on my hands, and it was by my hands as well that the scummy DYH lived. But I stand by what I did, given what I knew at the time, and though I was wrong, that doesn't necessarily make me scum. You're right. Being wrong doesn't make you scum. It's the reasons behind WHY you were wrong that make you scum. Humor me for a bit, though. DP countered with a "big case post" from Mario and you said it didn't count because that wasn't how he opened the game. So only the first person he pressures counts? What is the arbitrary cut-off for when it becomes acceptable for him as town to start posting big cases? And you realize that LC quote was on Day 2, right? I mean, at that point he had as much information as the GSL Mini post that you discredited because it was over 48 hours into the game. So which is it; does the length of his post stop counting after day 1? Or only when he's scum does it stop counting? Why did you not reference ACME, where as scum, he didn't make a single big case day 1? He had a few light pokes at people and rode the fake-mason claim to a day 1 lynch, THEN made a longer case on kush during the night. And why does his newbie game not count? I mean, certainly DP has gotten more comfortable playing since then, but you were blatantly misrepresenting your case in saying "DP never does this as town, only when he's scum!" when what you meant is that "DP hasn't done this lately as town." There's a HUGE difference there. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 02 2012 17:10 DoYouHas wrote: Here is my thinking on Ace before I go to bed. Think back to early in day 1 where debears was really going after me for my first post which boiled down to me not wanting people to sheep Ace because he was Ace. The back and forth between us lasted longer than it probably should have, but at the end of it one thing was sure. Nobody was going to be overtly sheeping Ace based on reputation. So then there were a couple posts which caught my eye from Ace: What do these posts do? they certainly don't provide any explanation for anything that he is saying. What I see them doing is spreading suspicion. Suddenly 3 of the more veteran players in the game besides Ace have 'something off' about them. "I highly doubt all 3 are town" is an easy statement to make as it reflects what pretty much all of us are thinking, but he takes it a step further and suggest that 2/3 are more likely than not to be scum. And what reasons do we have to suspect those three that we didn't have before Ace posted? None. Ace simply invites us to entertain the possibility, throws the weight of his name behind it, and let's our fears of being against a powerful scum team fill in the reasons for him. Then we get the debears-Shaoipi-DYH interaction (a strange name since I'm pretty sure I haven't interacted with Shaoipi). Now there are 3 more people that have had an interaction which caught Ace's eye. Again, Ace has managed to direct people's attention to targets of his choice without ever providing a reason aside from "I'm Ace". The interaction, renamed the Shaoipi-VE-DP interaction in the second post, but, as far as I can tell, is referencing the same thing as the first post (I could be wrong, but Ace certainly didn't make it easy on me, since he gives no details and no explanations) is now "weird". So what do those posts do? At their face they are meant to make us think that he is scumhunting, looking at things which your average player doesn't grasp. But what they actually do is prey on people's instinct to think "there must be something to these suspicions if Ace is spending his time on it". Ace wasn't trying to lead the town down the right or wrong path, he was simply facilitating the town destroying each other. P.S. It is also possible that he really just didn't give a crap about the town. It would really irritate me if he was playing against his win condition by making no attempt to win the rest of the town to his reads. Good night. I can't say what Ace was doing, because I have no idea. But I'll be working to do whatever I can to prove that I am town. Starting with lynching scum tomorrow. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:11 DoYouHas wrote: I expected to catch some flak for my voteswitch onto DP, something like that always does. My vote on Xata was doing nothing. There were 3 viable lynch candidates, none of which I had a strong opinion on (with the exception of Marv, I was looking to switch to him until the claim. It also didn't sit right with me that by voting Marv I would have been agreeing with Ace, who I am leaning scum on.) That meant for me to help avoid a marv lynch and also make my vote matter, I had to switch to either Zealos or DP. I picked the person who defended my top scum read and had some points against him instead of the fairly inactive person who happened to be backing up my scum read. Not the best reasons, but the honest ones. I cannot comprehend how there is so much doubt around my claim. You all must think I have balls of steel. My claim was in a farewell post, made ON the deadline. I didn't think it would save me. Nor can I think of a single example of scum claiming like that only to have themselves proven a liar 30 seconds later with the nightpost. I also didn't think claiming earlier would have saved me (which would have been like 10 minutes earlier, as that was when I sat back down to watch the nightpost). If there is something you should have learned about me from this game, or from looking at my previous games, is that I play slow, I try to write carefully, and I can be single-minded when I think I am right. None of these aspects fit with trying to spit out my few reads before I am mislynched and then a frustrated farewell (if I am scum). They do fit with a townie me, who is suddenly pressed for time to contribute what little I can before you kill me. You have all put me in a terrible position. Why? because all scum have to do is roleblock me tonight and you will all lynch me tomorrow and do their job for them. But whatever, there isn't anything I can do about that. I'll just try and catch scum in the time I have left, and hopefully that will convince you that I'm town. I can somewhat relate to your reasons for voting DP... Although they're still narrow-minded reasons, they're not necessarily scummy reasons. Combined with my intuition telling me your late roleclaim wasn't any elaborate Mafia tactic (which it could possibly be, but I have problems believing it - Occam's razor points to the simpler explanation), I'm starting to lean slightly town on you. In addition, such heavy tunneling isn't really townish, but it's not an effective Mafia playstyle either. Mafia would rather leave their options open, not limit them willingly. What's a good point is that Mafia might have a roleblocker. If they roleblock you, we're back to square one and have to decide the truth of your roleclaim with what you've said, not with your power usage. In any case, you should claim your shot RIGHT before the deadline. Let's consider the options for Mafia if they don't have time to change their roleblock action based on your target: 1) They can roleblock you, preventing you from becoming a confirmed Vanilla Townie (after your shot has been used). But if you just shoot me or some other townie (and you're not a very threatening presence to Mafia in any case), it might be beneficial for Mafia to let the shot go through. They'd get rid of one townie and just lose one mislynch candidate. 2) They can skip using a roleblock or roleblock marvellosity instead (in case he didn't fakeclaim). This would make you a confirmed Vanilla Townie but potentially prevent marvellosity's night action and most of all likely kill 2 townies in a single night. If you claim your shot early, Mafia will have an easy time deciding their best course of action. If you do it at the deadline, Mafia will have to take a risk and decide their possible roleblock usage without information about your target. Although I guess it has to be me after all this tunneling, which kind of makes me hope you're fakeclaiming, but you never know. Reading the exchange between WBG and BH, I'm starting to lean on WBG being town and BH being Mafia. WBG's reasoning is coherent and townish, but BH looks like he's just dodging issues and ignoring facts while doing what he decided beforehand (pushing the lynch to DP, next up DYH). What's even weirder is the contradiction between his earlier and later playstyle: at first he swinged his vote around for the smallest reasons, but then he wouldn't budge from getting DP lynched no matter what. Where did this confidence suddenly come from, considering his earlier wishy-washiness? And even with his arguments being repeatedly refuted? I'm just getting more and more suspicious of BH the more I think about it. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On December 02 2012 23:53 MrZentor wrote: Why hasn't DYH posted his role pm yet? -.- Because it doesn't prove anything. However, there is no reason not to, so here you go. + Show Spoiler [Role PM] + You are a manic paranoiac clone of Chell. You aren't entirely sure why robots scare the piss out of you so bad, but they do. Sometimes you think you see one in a random place. These days, instead of a portal gun, you carry a 9mm. Unfortunately, you're a terrible shot and only have one magazine, so you'll only get to kill one person. Hopefully you pick the right one. (1 shot vigi.) | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
First things first DYH claim your shot right before deadline, anything else would be folly. On another note we have to WIFOM around marv now, whether he gets shot/rbed or whateverelse. I am of two minds pn hos claim but yeah we can only wait and see for that. I wanted to do some more stuff in this night but unfortunately time is short and so I will have to keep it simple. Tomorrow I'll be back at my computer with some time on my hands so I can elaborate further (strongly doubt that I will get shot) On my watchlist right now: -Marv depending on night actions -DYH see above These two are the obvious ones, then I still want to keep tabs on BH and Xata (whom I have kind of forgot earlier in d1) BH led a mislynch, while that happens to anyone of us, i still dislike the way je insisted on SP being scum, when he was willing to swap earlier tarfets, stubbornness in a read aint necessaeily scum, but still. In regards to xata there has been a lot about him alreasy by others I am not going to rehash that. But his last post was pure fluff so it kind of adds up. Moving on I would like to see more from sandroba, dandel has done jackshit before replacing out, so there is a lot of stuff that sandroba should be able to comment to. These are the ppl I am most interesred in right now. More will come tmr, sry its late. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:47 ShiaoPi wrote: Sooo, this means you DO have a scum read on Xata still? You are being somewhat unclear regarding that...Okay, Let me see... We got 2roleclaims and had 2 lastminuteswitches which resulted in killing off DP.... First things first DYH claim your shot right before deadline, anything else would be folly. On another note we have to WIFOM around marv now, whether he gets shot/rbed or whateverelse. I am of two minds pn hos claim but yeah we can only wait and see for that. I wanted to do some more stuff in this night but unfortunately time is short and so I will have to keep it simple. Tomorrow I'll be back at my computer with some time on my hands so I can elaborate further (strongly doubt that I will get shot) On my watchlist right now: -Marv depending on night actions -DYH see above These two are the obvious ones, then I still want to keep tabs on BH and Xata (whom I have kind of forgot earlier in d1) BH led a mislynch, while that happens to anyone of us, i still dislike the way je insisted on SP being scum, when he was willing to swap earlier tarfets, stubbornness in a read aint necessaeily scum, but still. In regards to xata there has been a lot about him alreasy by others I am not going to rehash that. But his last post was pure fluff so it kind of adds up. Moving on I would like to see more from sandroba, dandel has done jackshit before replacing out, so there is a lot of stuff that sandroba should be able to comment to. These are the ppl I am most interesred in right now. More will come tmr, sry its late. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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