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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 07:38 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, MrZ has a point. It doesn't mean BH is town, but it's a valid point. I disagree. Retracting a mistake case is entirely a null tell. How does it indicate townieness? Why couldn't it have been scum? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote: I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early: Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM): WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum. Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said. DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through. Scummers : Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. People that I'm unsure but leaning scum: VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though. And....this is why sandro is town. Seriously, go look at sandro's filter in chrono before he died. He didn't have a single post that had as much insight or investment as this in 96 full hours of game. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 07:59 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like Keirathi either (oh yes I'm attacking the two guys attacking me) because of his attack on me. Keirathi should know me, and should know better. Not logically consistent. What's not logically consistent? Why is my meta case wrong? And, I DO know you. That's why I was concerned enough about how you were playing this game to spend time looking up your previous games to make my case. For now: ##Vote: BlazingHand | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 08:16 MrZentor wrote: Keirathi. I seriously don't understand what you're trying to prove. BH saved DYH, while knowing that DYH was a vigil. If you're scum, instead of putting in an extra effort to SAVE a vigilante, wouldn't it be easier to pretend like you didn't see DYH's claim until TWO MINUTES after he claimed. That's all BH had to do to kill DYH. Wait two minutes. It makes absolutely no sense for BH to be scum. Okay, I admit you have a point. But I hate those kind of "scum would never do that!" arguments because they end up handing scum games on a silver platter. Risen last minute switching his vote between two townies in LIII. Me holding roleblock on n1 to claim it myself. Prplhz claiming cop day 1 in Normal Mini 2, etc etc. I don't think saving the vig outweighs the rest of his play day 1, because it's NOTHING like his town play. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I don't believe I've ever seen them do it on night 1. Other nights, sure. I believe marv was the one that called me a "fucking idiot" for not using the RB night 1 in that game, even though it was a big factor in me winning  | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 08:26 MrZentor wrote: Yes, it IS possible that BH is scum. But it is extremely unlikely. So stop wasting your time until you have decent evidence against him. I have a TON of evidence against him. Show me where it's wrong. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 08:26 MrZentor wrote: Yes, it IS possible that BH is scum. But it is extremely unlikely. So stop wasting your time until you have decent evidence against him. And for that matter, who do YOU want to lynch today. You voted for a bunch of confirmed townies yesterday, so who's your best read right now? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 08:44 MrZentor wrote: In your case you showed how BH's play this game was different from his past townie games. This proves little, as people often change their play style over time. Show a game in which BH was mafia and played like he is now. Show me a game in which he, as scum, saved a claim vigilante when he could have let them die. (Or anything as insanely risky like that.) Show me a game in which BH as scum made a case and then instantly retracted it. Sure, BH's play this game isn't like his play as town in previous games, but it isn't like his scum play either. So your case on him proves nothing. + Show Spoiler + And I don't know who I want to lynch yet, because I don't come to rash conclusions before I get as much evidence as I can. i.e. It's best to wait at least 24 hours before deciding who you want to lynch. AFAIK BH only has 3 scum games. Resistance, which is a completely different game type and comparing them is pretty irrelevant. Idiot Cop, in which BH claimed cop night 0, was counter claimed, and spent the rest of the game trolling via pictures until he was lynched. Bureaucracy was a game where he didn't even know who his scum partners were and basically EVERYONE had a crazy role. None of those games are very good comparisons to how scum BH would play in a "normal" game. If you really want to compare them, his posting style/tone in Bureaucracy is pretty similar to what I'm seeing here, but again I d'nt really think it's a great comparison just because of how different the style of game was. Also: Best to wait 24 hours? You have 72 hours of information to make an educated decision on. I want your opinions about SOMEONE. Surely you have some kind of reads after a full cycle of game time. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 09:23 MrZentor wrote: I like to have as much evidence as possible before trying to get somebody lynched. It's better than insisting that somebody who is basically confirmed town is scum. I'm not asking you to try to get someone lynched. I'm asking you to say who you have a scum read on. You've had plenty of time and 3 flips to influence your reads. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I was trying to convince myself that maybe BH could just be playing completely differently from every town game he has played ever, and suddenly become a bad player. But I keep coming back to this: On December 03 2012 07:13 Keirathi wrote: I just want to talk about this quote a bit as well. In any normal-ish game that I'm ever in, if I'm town and two people blue claim on day 1, my automatic no-thinking-needed assumption would be that one of them would be roleblocked and one would be NK'd. The only way BH's post makes sense is if you assume there isn't a roleblocker (and/or mafia KP, but that's just silly), which I find hard to believe any townie would assume by default. Scum BH knows that there isn't a scum RB? Now, we KNOW that one of DYH/marv got their ability off (unless you want to conspiracy theory about scum having 2 KP *AND* shooting their own teamate...I find that even more unlikely than scum BH switching off the vig at the last second, though). Did anyone else actually assume that scum wouldn't have a roleblocker? If someone can honestly tell me that they thought that with 2 blue roles claimed day 1, that one of them would get an action off because there wouldn't be a roleblocker, then speak up because that was not my thought process at all. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 15:46 Blazinghand wrote: Keirathi should be smarter than this. ##vote Keirathi You still haven't made an actual argument against my case, or the no-roleblocker assumption. You just keep calling me bad/stupid. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 15:54 Blazinghand wrote: Also: scumslips don't exist. When you flip red, we'll see. And I'll gladly trade 1 for 1 with you <3 | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I've explained how your play was different than every town game of yours ever. And I've been making cases trying to convince other people that you are scum. You've just said "Lol keirathi is bad and scum". | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 16:07 Blazinghand wrote: I typically have a policy of not lynching people the day they replaced in, but I didn't like Ace either (though I typically find him illegible anyways). For you, my friend: an exception. That's awfully convenient that you're willing to give up your policy to lynch a townie when you weren't willing to give it up in Mario to lynch a scum And I most certainly am scumhunting. I have a major scum read, and there hasn't been a whole ton of other things to talk about since I replaced in. WBG said he wanted to lynch Shiao, Xatalos just recently made a case on Zealos. Neither make as much sense as scum to me as you. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 16:15 Blazinghand wrote: The fact of the matter is Keirathi, I thought about that policy, and sometimes policies need to be bent. It blinded me to the true nature of Djoref being scum last game, and I have learned from that mistake. So much has happened, with flips, shots, VE being red, etc, but you would rather avoid all that discussion. It's so easy to let your scum motives slip when you actually talk to the town! No, much easier to just tunnel BH. I've seen this before, and the only motivation is that you're scum. ez. What the hell is there to say about the flips/shots/VE being scum? They are facts that everyone can see. What have you said about them, btw? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 03 2012 16:19 Blazinghand wrote: I haven't weighed in on them yet, and I haven't done any associative tell analysis either. But there's a lot to say (besides of course that DYH is the vigi), especially given that VE, and people's interactions with VE, left behind what I'm sure is plenty of stuff to look at from D1. You can turn the question around on me if you like-- yes, I haven't weighed in on that yet, but you know what I have done? Shared reads on tons of people since the start of D1, since the start of N1 even. I'm an open book, Keirathi. "I haven't done that stuff either but its cool, I can still attack you for it!" Okay buddy. And notice you still dodged making a case as to how this is my scum play rather than my town play. And trying to convince other people that I am scum. You're doing the same thing you did with DP: trying to convince ME that I'm scum. That's not what town BH does EVER. Anyways time for sleep. Good night <3 | ||
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