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Paranoia Mafia - Page 10

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 03 2012 07:42 GMT
#1154
What? I don't care what you think about whether or not you're scum, cause... well, you're scum. I don't know where you're getting this.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 03 2012 07:43 GMT
#1155
And honestly if you're not convinced at this point that I'm town the only option is you're willfully choosing not to see it.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 00:55 GMT
#1262
sup bros

Well I'll check out this case on ShiaoPi. I have a townread on him but now that he's posted etc I'll see what's up. I'll also take some time to address your concerns about Keirathi.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 01:59 GMT
#1264
Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset.

I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so.

I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch.

The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling.

On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant?

Strong opinions? Not particularly.

I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.)

Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing.

ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town.

austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture.


pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is!


When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 01:59 GMT
#1265
But again ShiaoPi not a good lynch as long as Keirathi is alive imo
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:04 GMT
#1267
1) the fact that ShiaoPi's thoughts on Xatalos are inconsistent isn't meta
2) the fact that ShiaoPi voted Keirathi, who is scum, isn't meta
3) the fact that Keirathi is still refusing to contribute isn't meta

I know exactly what I am talking about.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:07 GMT
#1268
In fact, if you're saying that when I say "ShiaoPi as town is logically consistent" is a bad meta case, then you are profoundly wrong.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:09 GMT
#1269
actually, given that my post mostly wasn't about meta, I'm wondering if you actually read it.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:20 GMT
#1270
Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this:

On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset.

I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so.

I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch.

The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling.

On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:
On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant?

Strong opinions? Not particularly.

I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.)

Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing.

ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town.

austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture.


pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is!




more bad meta usage.

gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about.


This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also.

On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr."

If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice?

Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote:
EBWOP

and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O


you say that as if it was foreseeable.

On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim?


didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy.

My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum.

On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:
On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim?


didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy.

My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum.


Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters?


I did, and I thought marv was scummier.


On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:
While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky)


WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this:

On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on.

On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.



When he could be making more posts like this:

On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP.


I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll.

On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.


ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum.

On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,

Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad.
On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
and stuff like this:

On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess


suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum.



What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read.

On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.

Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them.


I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1.


the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death.

So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then?


which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:22 GMT
#1271
Actually you know what yeah this is more out of character even than Keirathi's horrible tunnell-fest of me. I expect more out of WBG. I expect at least a pretense of hunting scum and pressuring people and interacting with the thread. His attempts to turn this thread into a horrible hate-fest have stopped us from achieving our basic goals, and people are simply afraid to attack him because he's WBG. No longer!

Keirathi is still probably scum, and I still don't like ShiaoPi, but the WBG we have here is playing with scum motives and pushing his scum agenda.

##unvote
##vote WBG


time to stop him.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 02:22 GMT
#1272
Oh yeah and he clearly didn't read my post about ShiaoPi and Keirathi, he just wanted to slap it down and lay on the insults. This isn't how you play mafia, this isn't how you hunt scum.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 03:24 GMT
#1279
so helpful
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 03:29 GMT
#1282
On December 04 2012 12:27 Keirathi wrote:
Marv agreed with my read of BH.


On December 03 2012 05:19 marvellosity wrote:
BH I just don't know. I raged at him in Mario on several occasions for what I viewed as retarded plays (voting someone he just called town and calling him scum with no reason). I can see town BH tunnelling someone even when holes have been picked in his case. I don't actually know how to have a scumread on BH :/

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 03:32 GMT
#1286
Yeah I don't see that as marv saying I'm scum, I think he just had a mistaken town read on you. If marv thought I was scum I guarantee 100% he'd be unambiguous about it. He knew he was probably dead N1.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 03:35 GMT
#1288
lol keirathi can't find anyone who supports his case against me so he's making them up
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 03:39 GMT
#1290
oh you're defending WBG kk
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 06:07 GMT
#1332
Ah, this is what I get for not carefully reading the OP

##unvote keirathi
##vote WBG
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 06:11 GMT
#1334
Yeah sure I'll sit down with their filters. That and a couple of other things are on my to-do list. I see you're still parking your vote on me, a yellow-bellied choice if ever there was one.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 07:09 GMT
#1336
yeah sure
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
December 04 2012 10:49 GMT
#1341
I don't buy DYH's case on LM. I think he's using associative tells incorrectly, basically. VE is tricky motherfucker. When we draw associative tells based on flips, here's what we can say: Town players were honest, and Scum players were scum. The fact the VE soft-defended LM is meaningless. If you want to make a case against LM, you do it based on how he acted. Has he pushed a town agenda or a scum agenda? How did he interact towards VE? I don't think reading into VE's motives and trying to figure out what exactly his agenda was with these LM mentions is valuable. I think the fact that DYH says this is annoying:
On December 04 2012 12:02 DoYouHas wrote:
I think my vote analysis of Lazer is sound, and is enough to make him a great lynch, which is why I haven't really dug into him. Clearly the rest of you don't agree, and would prefer a wall of text case -_-.


This is literally DYH being lazy because he's confirmed town. He is making a case against Lazer based on something other than Lazer's filter. I have a townread on Lazer, though I don't think he's leonardo di nostradamus or anything but he's hunting scum and pushing a town agenda. People who want to push Lazer need to provide a reason why LM is scummy, beyond VE soft-defending him and not mentioning him much/enough. You're doing your associative tells backwards.

I have no read on Zealos. I had a townread on him based on how he played through D1 but he hasn't been around, so he's inactive

I don't like how Xatalos has been noncomittal, but this seems more like an honest open townie thing than a scum player trying to avoid giving reads. I'm telegraphing this from the way he's phrasing things and how he's interacting with others in the thread.

MrZentor has been sticking to my ass like day-old bubble gum but he's reasoning things out and I think we genuinely just are in agreement about most things. Town.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
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