EPTChrono Trigger Mafia
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VisceraEyes
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Also hi guys. | ||
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First of all, I'll start by saying I would have supported Sandroba D1 for leader based on his "plan". When I read it, I hadn't considered any kind of advantage/disadvantage behind the party selection process, and the fact that he shared his idea but not his candidates came across as pretty townie all things considered. That being said, TODAY I share syllo's D1 reservations about Sand's play. For all his posts, he doesn't really come out and call anyone suspicious or attack anyone or really anything that looks like scumhunting. Coupled with his inactivity today and the fact that I've been burned by scumSand in the past (Liar Game) and pretty much I'd like to see a paragon of contribution in Sandroba over the rest of the cycle. Otherwise, I'm chalking up his loss of interest to him being scum and lynching him. D1 I was about certain marv was scum but his activity and apparent interest in the game has picked up considerably (and before I joined no less) so I can let him go for now. I think the successful party should be off the table for lynch today (for reasons I think are obvious) but it should be noted that if Dino's claiming a "power role" or whatever is to be believed, I agree that the others are far from being out from under scrutiny. I think given what we know about the setup, policies like "lurkers" should be avoided unless coupled with some serious meta/reasoning as is the case with Sandroba. But who? Sandroba if he doesn't get back in here and tell me I'm retarded and who I should vote for. I could also get behind an Hapa lynch. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Hapahauli's play, in my opinion, can be characterized summarily as recalcitrant. His almost automatic discrediting of syllo D1 seemed a little over-the-top to me. Syllo's early posts made it pretty clear (at least to me) that he's trying to do what he can for town. I'm sure he's capable enough as scum to fake it, but honestly (and curiously) I don't fear a scum Syllo like I fear (for example) a scum marv or a scum BloodyC0bbler. If Sandroba hadn't cemented my support D1, I would have supported syllo without question. But Hapa was up in arms about people "blindly sheeping syllo". On the surface, okay. We don't want to "blindly sheep" anyone. However, as marv pointed out at the time, simply supporting someone based on their posts is not the same thing as "blindly sheeping them" and that's what Hapa was insinuating was going on with the WHOLE of the syllo wagon. He was literally saying that "no one supporting syllo has any reason to do so" which is patently false and borders on malicious misrepresentation of the facts. | ||
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On November 24 2012 11:01 TheChronicler wrote: I'll take this opportunity to place my vote on sandroba. Where is toad... I would have really liked seeing his opinion on Sandro before voting. I really only see Sandro as scum if toad is scum, too. Explain the bolded. Not that I disagree, I just want to know if that's based on your observations, or on Dino's association map, or on pencil lines, or on spicy jerky, or what. | ||
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@Marv Your case is the most recent and it's making at least a little sense without me going to filter the guy. I looked at Kita early on because of his bullshit campaign post and found trolly kita - not really alignment indicative...but yeah, this Draz thing and the fact that he keeps dancing around Sandroba is especially damning if you subscribe to the sandScum theory. My problem with it is this: if Sandroba is scum and Kitaman is scum too, then why would they run against each other for leader? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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For reasons I've already stated. Marv, I just feel like Kita cares more about the game right now and I'm getting a distinctly scum feel from Sandroba's posting since his absenteeism. I have far more confidence in a Sand vote right now. With that, I'm gonna go watch a gaggle of preschoolers geek out over regal accouterments and spiral into a sugar induced torpor (ideally). Wish me luck everybody. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. | ||
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Who's running with syllo and Dino in their team? I'll vote for that person because honestly, that's the team that's going to succeed imo. | ||
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 I promise to get to this. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + [speculation] I'm wondering how important it is for us to actually SUCCEED the missions. Think about it this way: if we keep sending the same players over and over again, all we're going to get is...successful missions? I thought at first that the lynch mechanic was tied to the success or failure of missions, but as this last day has proven, that's not necessarily the case. As such. Because we cannot depend on a lynch for flip information, we must rely upon the missions to get us concrete information about peoples' motives. We should be selecting teams for the missions NOT with the sole focus of SUCCEEDING at the missions, but rather to gain THE MOST INFORMATION POSSIBLE from the missions. I'd like syllogism to check my math here, but with a successful mission last cycle, I was depending on a lynch THIS cycle. It didn't happen. [/speculation] Toad is almost certainly scum...he should absolutely be our next lynch if we get another lynch. Hapa is looking better to me since I last posted, but I'm still having issues. He's pushing a player I also find to be incredibly suspicious in Promethelax, so I'm at a crossroads. @Hapahauli Your observation about Prom's opinion of you is compelling. How convinced are you of this Acro connection you're seeing re: the Toad case? Let's assume Toad flips third party as you suspect: who would you rather lynch? Prom or Acro? @Town I'm also not liking strongandbig's contributions to the game, but as it's mostly based around inactivity, I'm letting that one go. Hopefully he makes good on his promise to contribute more now that he's claimed his RL issues are over. Mine are not. I still have a lot going on and may not get a whole lot of time to post. Just fair warning guys. I may be able to get to a couple of questions, but act fast guys. I understand that I don't have much in the way of content to refer to, but if you can think of anything I can tell you to help you divine my alignment, I'm here now. Lay it on me. | ||
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UGH To be fair I skimmed quite a bit (there were like over 300 posts to catch up on before I read the thread) so I guess give me a few to unskim and get some fucking FACTS. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:57 goodkarma wrote: My strongandbig read was in fact in large part due to activity, in addition to the incomplete cases / reads he was bringing up. I was unaware, however, of the severe lack of internet he was experiencing, and will back off of him for now... In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist: 1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read... On November 28 2012 10:03 goodkarma wrote: I know people hate lists, but honestly establishing town is just as important, if not moreso, than finding scum this game. So I have less of a problem with lists. My current conclusions: 1) Vigi shoot VE, Cave, and maybe Adam (in that order). 2) Kita probably is 3rd party... 3) Rolecheck Prox. if possible... 4) Toad = scum... And in case you were wondering, I would say that everyone not on that list is town at this point... Aside from the obvious inconsistency of SnB not being on the second list, what I find the most off-putting about these posts is the fact that they come directly after I make my intention to be more active in the thread known, but at a time when I said I was busy and wouldn't be around in the thread (right now.) And I'm Vig Shot Numero Uno apparently. I'm definitely looking into GK next. | ||
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On November 28 2012 10:17 Hapahauli wrote: I think you highlighted the wrong thing VE ^ That's pretty damn scummy right there. Yeah well - Kush proved that town say stupid as fuck things EXACTLY LIKE THAT in Liquid City so I subtracted that particular nonsense from the equation. It's scummy, but town say that shit too. I was focused more on the association it implied with SnB. | ||
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On November 28 2012 10:20 Hapahauli wrote: Goodkarma is a good town player. He isn't Kush, or even close to that. Good to know. So that actually IS really scummy. Noted. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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Did you need something in particular iamp? | ||
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On November 28 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote: No, not really. Just hoping to see more ve I know and I'm kinda fucking salty that this RL bullshit happened AS SOON as my slot opened in this game - I'm a TL Resistance veteran and was all like, planning on campaign posters for trying to be leader and shit...but my activity has made it to where I'm not just not going to be considered for leader, I'm not even going to be PART OF THE TEAM most of the time based solely on my inactivity. Life isn't fair. We do what we can. I hope to make up for being a total failure in that regard by finding some of the scum for if/when we get a lynch again. Stay tuned. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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His contributions regardless of alignment are flavored with emotion from my experience with him. He's come across as town(ish) from what I recall seeing from him this game, but obviously I've missed some shit and have to go reevaluate anyway. I'll take a look with you. | ||
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Scumhunting without flips is fucking HARD DUDE. :/ | ||
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##Vote: Dienosore I'm okay with Dieno's team as proposed. | ||
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##Lynch: Toadesstern ##Leader: syllogism Prom I read your case. It's pretty bad, but mostly because the majority of it is you paraphrasing GK's posts into something scummy when that's not necessarily the way they were intended or meant. That being said, with the mission failure it seems fairly likely that someone on the party is scum, even if Acro's 3rd party claim is to be believed. Among those remaining, I concur that the most likely to be scum is GK. I went back and read a few filters and I'm working on a post right now with what I found. Bear with me guys. | ||
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Unless you've done so already and again I've skimmed over it like a boss..... | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:41 Mementoss wrote: If anyone's wondering linking to any QT is against the rules and is modkillable /salute | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:44 syllogism wrote: VE did you get roleblocked last night I did...sorry about that. I literally had to go check my Inbox. XD I didn't take any damage though! I'm still working on that post. It's incoming soon. | ||
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Also that post is going to have to wait. I didn't have the time I thought I'd have to put it together, and I have to go to work. It's still open though so I can finish it up tonight after work. | ||
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Anyway, I'll be reading along on my phone and I'll post short answers to questions anyone has if I can, but yeah not much in the way of contribution when I'm on the clock. Catch you guys later. | ||
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On November 21 2012 13:50 goodkarma wrote: Of course it will matter. But talking about how certain deliberately hidden variables could or could not work that are outside our control is a waste of time. The one thing we presently can control is who we choose for our party, and that's where are focus should be. So please stop shitting up the thread advocating setup speculation. On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 15:45 goodkarma wrote: But we have HP. Scum must be able to remove it somehow. And if we have let's say a small hidden value score lead over scum, it would be important to know if scum can or cannot off people in the party to tip the scales against us. Especially if a medic-type role exists for town. I feel this is a very relevant and answerable question to ask the host. But I must agree with oats that outside of a response from him it's not a good use of our time to discuss further. Damning setup speculation certainly appears townie, but it becomes less so when one is drawn into a setup-speculation conversation citing setup speculation as the reasoning for it. But don't worry, he's still townie because he agreed with someone else that discussing it further is not a good use of time...right? Right guys? No. Not right. Especially when you add in one of my personal favorite scumtells, bloating his own contributions. He was among the loudest voices D1 shouting "this game isn't about scumhunting it's about townhunting!" While selecting a party leader was the focus of D1, at no point in this game should anyone NOT be scumhunting. Sorry to say it, but it's right there in the name of the game. We're looking for Mafia. But not GK. GK is only interested in looking for townies...which helps in selecting a party leader, sure. But then what? He made it clear early on that hunting scum is not on his agenda. But you know what he did do? Well let's just see! On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote: For all those who are still distrustful of me: You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then: 1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach... 2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice. 3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba. 4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome. I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest. Awesome! 4 useless things! I'll just go right down the list. 1) GK was absolutely NOT the reason people started talking about who would be included in the parties. This is a gross skewing of what was happening during D1. It's certainly possible that no one would have mentioned who they were selecting, but he literally says that he's the only reason anyone even mentioned it. He also did not "show exactly why this is the best approach". He didn't even show why he THINKS it's the best approach. He simply stated that he wouldn't be voting for anyone who didn't say exactly who they'd be taking and why, and damned everyone voting for syllo/sand because they weren't being as "transparent" as he was. 2) If he's willing to change his party around, then what the fuck is the point of saying exactly who you're planning to take if you're leader in the first place? What's the point of even SELECTING a leader if you don't want to let them lead? In what way is the leader culpable for his choice of party if it's decided at the same time as the leader anyway and it's a town decision? This is the problem I'm having with his logic, but he rattles it off as some huge accomplishment for town. Good job bro. 3) Ran for leader. Cool. So did Sandroba (scum) and Toad (probable scum). Got anything else? 4) Active. Because, you know...only town are active, and scum only lurk. [/sarcasm] If someone draws attention to their own meta, it's fucking useless. Period. So...bloating his own contributions. Cool. How about a "USELESS LIST MAKING" CHASER?!?!? On November 28 2012 09:57 goodkarma wrote: My strongandbig read was in fact in large part due to activity, in addition to the incomplete cases / reads he was bringing up. I was unaware, however, of the severe lack of internet he was experiencing, and will back off of him for now... In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist: 1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read... This was the post that really made me go look back over GK. A scum suspect list....THAT INCLUDES HALF OF THE FUCKING GAME!!! Nevermind that he wants to shoot me dead because I was inactive. Fine, I can understand that sentiment...but having half the players in the game on a scum suspect list? Really? Why not just say "I'm not interested in looking for scum" and leave it at that? After all, that's what he's been doing ALL GAME LONG anyway. This game is about TOWNHUNTING, not SCUMHUNTING, remember? So why bother at all? My guess is to appear contributory without having to do anything...but your mileage may vary. At this point, I'm most interested in GK dying after Toad, but I intend to thoroughly go over the party that failed last cycle before I vote to lynch anyone (presuming we get another lynch next cycle). | ||
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VisceraEyes
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I explained EXACTLY what I didn't like about Prom's case, it had nothing to do with the fact that he made the case itself, which is what GK would have you believe. It had to do with Prom paraphrasing posts. I explicitly said that I didn't necessarily disagree with the case at the time, so I don't even know what GK is going on about. I'm looking into the failed mission peeps now. Probably won't get a chance to post about it (work beckons -.-) but that's what I'm doing. | ||
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I know nothing of the game, so I'm going to defer to those who do this cycle. Right now that seems to be C/C but I'll let you TriggerFiends talk it out first and vote tomorrow (real time). | ||
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