EPTA greymist themed game! So much /in. Even though I barely played chrono trigger (and I know that is one of the shortcomings of my youth).
Chrono Trigger Mafia
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A greymist themed game! So much /in. Even though I barely played chrono trigger (and I know that is one of the shortcomings of my youth). | ||
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EDIT: oh, and Prom+Kush. If you throw this game like you did ACME no time travel will save you from my wrath. Also, a game with lots of my favourite players! | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:06 Promethelax wrote: I bet you do buddy. Glad to have you here so you can yell at me in game instead of postgame. I look forward to this and I promise: as scum I'll shoot you d1 to keep your streak going. You heard it here first! If Marv gets shot N1, then Prom is scum! | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:21 kushm4sta wrote: Noooo 3sr he is my friend. Boot the smurph instead. He tried to get into ponies mafia...cancelled. He tried to get into Cold war...never started And now he tries this game and he gets booted. Really unfair imo. He wants to play a big game that's why he's not doing a newbie. I have nothing against your friend, but Toad is Toad, and I agree with Syllo. | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:23 kushm4sta wrote: unrelated to above: so is town outside communication allowed in this game? I read the op but it wasn't really clarified. Read better? PMs no | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:50 Foolishness wrote: Could've sworn it was 12,000 BC, not 12,000,000 BC..... I got this, guys! /Acro's magical decryption tool working... working... working... PING On November 20 2012 04:50 Foolishness wrote: /in I knew it! | ||
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##buy gun ##buy 24 bullets | ||
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##buy Buronzu Bo-gan ##buy 24 arrows | ||
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On November 21 2012 00:12 GreYMisT wrote: I would like to assure the thread that I did not put Yugi, The King of Games in this game. Right... ![[image loading]](http://www.adventureson.com/bbcart/images/prods/Yu-Gi-Oh-Starter-Deck-Yu-Gi-Oh-Remove-Trap.jpg) | ||
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 I am going to go out and assume that Lavos will be a game element and not a player, seeing as he will be "summoned" later in the game. So I am going to assume that the quests are to get to Lavos, and get any town advantages we can on the way (somewhat similar to Resistance mafia). My suggestion is thus to play this just like resistance mafia. Everybody suggests the party they will make if chosen as leader today and gives their reasons. This should be done by 12 hours (or maybe 6, given that it's day 1 and people still need to get going) before the deadline, giving people time to vote on their preferred party leader. To get the discussion started, I would currently choose Marv, Sandro and Syllo along: I know them, I know Sandro and Syllo work well together, and I know they are all good players. I have no clue what the quest will be, so bringing the best players simply seems prudent. However, as the day goes on this may change if I get clear scum reads on any of them. For Sandro and Syllo I feel a scumread is viable in D1. I don't think I can get a read on Marv in D1, but he's still more readable than Toad, who I would otherwise put in that spot. | ||
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How do you know you don't gain anything from bringing vets. It's greymist and I am expecting minigames, unconfirmed masons and other shenanigans. Having a player like kush or adam there is NOT a good idea, even if they are town. | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:12 marvellosity wrote: Probably some mix of town reads and probable utility (if someone is clever, derp) is the right way of choosing teams. Like if someone is clearly town but an idiot then I wouldn't invite them into my hypothetical party. That's what I was trying to say: if someone is unlikely to benefit from whatever goodies town can win in these missions, then bringing him along is pointless even if he is the strongest town read. Additionally, I selected Sandroba and Syllogism precisely because I feel their scumplay is easily distinguishable from their townplay. | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:19 sandroba wrote: I see that everyone went completely the opposite way of tackling this issue as I have so far. Of course I am right and you guys probably gave it no thought. You have not yet suggested a master plan to break the game. You scum? | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes since this is my first game, you guys cant use leet haxzor skillz metareading on me Also Prome, your meta doesnt seem to have changed a lot, still walls of text. I really dont want to do Acro suggestion right now cause most people havent even started to post yet so Im pretty sure that our supposed 'teams', if we suggest them now, will change by the end of the day. So what? Why do you feel that changing your team as you learn more about players is a bad thing? | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:29 sandroba wrote: Well I can tell people are town pretty consistently (even more so than finding who is scum), so I will select less likely to get shot players who I have a town read on to take on the mission .I don't see what's confusing about that. I think scum will shoot certain players, regardless if they are considered town or not by the majority, if they are town quite early. That makes them not so good targets to be "confirmed" early on because it's a waste. If scum chooses to shoot the "likely town" group assuming I succeed in the mission, it preserves the town vets. If they choose to shoot the town vets it preserves the "likely town" group. I hope this helps clear it up. Well, that all depends on how similar to resistance mafia this really is. Given the fact that the wincon is completely different, I am leaning more to useful tools, and other such stuff for a successful party: things like the aperture black market, ability to PM or useable items. Alternatively, it could be help fighting Lavos. In the former case scum clearly wants the perks just as badly as town does. In the latter, they clearly don't (but if it's a "choose to use"-thing, then they want it so they can choose not to use it). However, you are making sense that giving such perks (or whatever successfully completing a mission does) to already powerful players is maybe not the best way to go about it. Funnily enough, this is exactly the opposite argument you made in Holy Roman, where you were very active about becoming emperor, despite already being a target for mafia. What changed your mind? | ||
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1. Never gonna happen: it's like a mayor campaign. Everybody who wants to be mayor will campaign regardless of what you say. 2. Gonna happen automatically: just as any votes, they will eventually gravitate to one or two players: in this case town reads instead of scumreads. 3. It's a terrible idea as it gives people an excuse to lurk (hey, they don't have to have opinions because you have excluded them from being party leaders anyway) | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:51 Adam4167 wrote: You would paint me as useless before I even arrive to the thread? I'd like to hear your reasons, if you have them, or are you just discrediting people at random? I've played with you in 2 or 3 games (can't remember if you were in SSM atm) and you were completely inactive in all of them. So... yes, I have a reason: you sign up and then maybe, if we get lucky, get the 1 post a day that is the minimum requirement to play. Prove me wrong and I will be a happy man! | ||
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On November 21 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: Something that I just thought of that we may be able to take advantage of later on are name claims. It seems unlikely that there are multiple versions of certain characters running around. For example, if we were to have a likely town character such as Lucca name claim, we could elect her as leader. This however is based on the assumption that the alignment in this game is tied to the alignment of the video game. Until this becomes clear, I wouldn't be confident in trying to abuse the setup like this. Also, we would have to worry about the mafia being given certain fake claims, but this is something that is less of a threat, considering the potential reward. We also have the option as town to enforce an additional party member selection vote. This limits the power of a single player, but it makes it easier for the mafia to sneak in one of their own in the 3rd of 4th slot. I think I'd rather put faith in the elected leader, to avoid the manipulation, assuming myself or my candidate of choice is elected. You're really hanging this on the assumption that scum doesn't have safe claims. In general, I hate mass claims, because they break the game AND have a large chance to backfire. | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:02 kitaman27 wrote: Who said I was suggesting a mass claim? I'm saying we could use a single name claim, only after we identify that the alignments in this game line up with the alignments in the video game. The mafia likely does have safe claims, but if we select a character at random, the odds are in our favor. The rewards certainly outweigh the risks in my opinion. Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted everybody to claim their name. I still don't like the idea, but I dislike it a bit less now. I see no real point in it. Lets say we get a "Crono" claim. I agree that names are probably unique, but who's to say this isn't a mafia with a safeclaim? Lets put it this way: assuming mafia has safeclaims, how does a name when selecting a character at random have any added value over just plain selecting a character at random? | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:10 Clarity_nl wrote: I think hapa is an excellent choice judging by last game (mario mini) since he admitted himself his scum play is fairly weak compared to his town play. I agree that any claim idea right now is terrible and shouldn't really be discussed. So do you have a town read on Hapa right now? Mind explaining it? | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote: Useless. Don't post like this. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. So you want to be as unaccountable as possible. I want you to explain what USEFUL information you think we can gain from this plan? It gives us more sources of information, but less information about more things. Seems to confuse matters. How do you plan to put this "extra" information to good use? | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:41 TheChronicler wrote: I don't want to be as unaccountable as possible. If you think it's a better idea then why not have it go leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves. Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on. We get information from all the choices, and avoid the problem where everyone will just choose themselves. This is just as bad. All you're doing is taking accountability away from yourself and diluting it in such a way that it is impossible to check who is to blaim for a failure. | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:49 marvellosity wrote: then we make sure we don't elect a scum person. can't be that hard to make just one or two very likely town reads, no? ^^ In fact, I already HAVE a likely town read! PS. It's not you. | ||
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It's not a very useful town read, though, because I don't want to vote for him precisely because his plan was terrible. | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:21 Dienosore wrote: I never said day 1 was useless... just that it's nearly impossible to have a perfect read on anyone at this point. And no, I don't expect anyone to actually listen to what I'm saying, especially when there are so many other solid players in the game with us. Maybe once I establish some credibility, sure, but until then I'd imagine I'm going to be generally ignored. I'm reading every post everybody makes very carefully. I assure you most people in this game are, despite the large volume of posts. From your explanation of your scumreads, you seem to have a decent grasp of the basics: you are going over the way people are posting and why they are posting that. However, the second step is to explain it to us rubes who do NOT have the accuity in discovering scummy motivations in pronoun juxtaposition and verb tenses. Because I am currently more interested in Djoref, can you please tell me what pronouns and verbs made you think he was scum? | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:29 risk.nuke wrote: Acrofales, can you elaborate why you immediately wanted to pick Sandroba, Marv, Syllo to go? What did you think would be the benefits and risks of sending three of our best players? Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy. On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. | ||
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On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote: I would like you to vote for me ! I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). | ||
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On November 21 2012 13:37 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: No, you know what. It wasn't poor wording. It's just you trying to poke holes where there aren't any. If marv isn't giving me scummy vibes, then I'm going to have a town read on him. If I have a town read on him, I will vote him today 100%. If Marv is a 3P, will you get "scummy vibes" from him? In fact, I doubt your ability to pick up scummy vibes from Marv at all on D1, regardless of Marv's alignment. I agree with Toad that this feels like a very cheap justification for parking your vote with no real justification at all. So explain to us all: Why do you think Marv is town unless he gives off scummy vibes? Am I town unless I give off scummy vibes? How about CaveJohnson (add other random unknown smurf here if you prefer)? What exactly constitutes a scummy vibe? I know Marv is rather notorious for hiding his scummy vibes really well. What makes you so confident that your long experience of playing with him let you find these scummy vibes? | ||
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Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away. Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? | ||
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On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote: Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Okay, I agree with you that we could use some answers. Is town notified of the success or failure of an event? Is town told who were the party members? If you cannot answer, please at least say that you cannot answer | ||
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On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote: What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. | ||
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On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote: Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation. I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another. However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little. As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet). | ||
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On November 21 2012 22:17 Djodref wrote: Mmm, yeah, transparency from the beginning is better in that case :0 So do you still feel you are the man for the job? | ||
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On November 21 2012 22:19 syllogism wrote: This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town. I disagree. Most of the time it is worth thinking about whether something is more likely to be said (or done) by mafia or town. However, sometimes it just requires so many assumptions to speculate either way that the argument can be made either way: this is wifom. It is running the argument in circles to decide whether you are more likely to have put the poisoned wine in front of me, or you. In this case, I see no reason why you would not engage sandro in a conversation, regardless of your alignment: it is what everybody expects you to do and not doing so would seem scummy. Given that Sandro is probably the guy who is most likely to figure you out, you have to appear normal most to him. On the other hand, if you're town, it is entirely normal to figure out Sandro's alignment by engaging him in conversation. So yeah: this is completely null and thus pointless. Additionally, I am still undecided on Sandro, so you might both be scum, in which case you would have no fear at all of engaging him in conversation. I do find it slightly townie that you hammer on this point. So a point in your favour. You mentioned three possible reasons for calling this wifom. Which one do you think I fall under? You calling me bad, or you calling me scum? | ||
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No offence, iamperfection and dino, but given your play so far, you are not serious contestants. | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Sorry, which comment? Also thread is kinda slow, I like to talk about stuff :D The thread is slow? Wtf man, I did some work for an hour, come back and have 3 entire new pages of rather useless back and forth banter to read through. Only things that stood out as something other than people using this thread as an IRC channel were Kush, Risk and Marv. Kush, because he already makes me want to punch him in the face, which judging by Acme Mini Mafia is his town meta, but I have no clue about his scum meta. Risk and Marv, because they are actually playing the game. The rest of you (Oats, Clarity, goodkarma) are just making lots of posts that contain meaningless nothings (or take 10 posts to get to the point). Please consolidate your thoughts and make 1 single clearly thought through post, rather than 5 posts that require 5 responses to get a single point across. | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote: kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:42 marvellosity wrote: ##Vote: syllogism momentum gooooo Getting your sheeples in line? ##vote Sandroba | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Sure why not. ##Vote: syllogism Behhhhhh. Why you voting for Syllo? | ||
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On November 22 2012 01:17 marvellosity wrote: Of course. Why sandroba over syllo then, darling? No reason. Call me the black shh | ||
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On November 22 2012 01:20 marvellosity wrote: Ok. Let it be known Acro is voting for sandroba basically because I'm voting for syllo. A somewhat petulant way to play the game (even if you brush it aside jokingly) Okay. Fine. I am voting for Sandroba, because I have no clear read on either of them yet. If anything, I think they are both town. I liked Syllo's response and I like Sandroba's opinion of it. I feel Sandro is playing very similar to SSM mafia where he "sponsored" GMarshal in a very similar way. In that game he was town. Given that I have a very similar read on both, I prefer Sandro to finally win an election, simply to see what he actually does when he wins. In short: no real reason for Sandro over Syllo. Prefer either over any of the other current candidates. | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:34 risk.nuke wrote: And speaking of old opinions. Acrofales, do you still advocate sending a team containing mostly vets. If not explain which reasons made you change your mind? Didn't I already answer that question? Oh yes. I remember. I did: On November 21 2012 20:45 Acrofales wrote: Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy. On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. At the time, I was leaning Djoref, because I was feeling town on him, and sending a somewhat experienced town seemed better than veteran Sandro with 3 noobies. However, he says he cannot commit the time, leaving us with Sandro and Syllo. Iamperfection and Dino are unfortunately not serious candidates for me. Perfection is way too focused on people seeing him as town and not nearly focused enough on playing the game. Dino is fluffy. Talking about fluffy, where is BioSC? | ||
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On November 22 2012 01:41 risk.nuke wrote: No you haven't answered the question. I know where you stand on the mission leader. You've said you endorse both sandroba and syllogism and voted sandroba. But for the rest of the party? Do you still think veterans should be selected by sandroba to go on the mission? Or should I take your vote on sandroba (who've hinted he intend to send less known players) that you no longer support that idea. And if so my question was why. On November 21 2012 20:45 Acrofales wrote: Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy. On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. Made it big bold and blue, because you apparently can't read otherwise. It means I like Sandro's policy and agree that as long as town people are picked I don't mind them being newbs who may not be able to best use any potential rewards, because veterans could be too much of a target for scum KP in any case without heaping more on. | ||
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On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote: Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? | ||
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On November 22 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote: I italicized 'first' because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that party leaders will be changing quite often and I feel as if people are thinking this is going to be a permanent position. As for the majority elected team, I think it's more logical to do things this way, at least for the first cycle while we are completely in the dark. I don't view polling the masses as dodging responsibility, but rather taking away the mafias chance to have an iron grip on the initial proceedings (assuming scum is elected and starts a dictatorship). By putting the vote out into the open, we also have another opportunity to see where loyalties lie. I will correct you on this: 1. Polls are a terrible idea in mafia (I have tried to use them myself in my younger more nubby days and they are a terrible idea) 2. Expecting that mafia cannot manipulate a vote (especially an anonymous vote as in the poll system) is exceedingly naive. 3. You are dodging responsibility, because one of the reasons for voting for a leader is so he can be held accountable for his team. If the party fails, then everybody in that party comes under serious suspicion, but the leader most of all: he put a party together with at least one scumster (and probably more, or third parties, or something). Given that town reads are generally easier than scumreads, especially so early in the game, that means the leader either has really bad judgement, someone really fooled the crap out of him, or he is scum. By avoiding this dilemma and putting it up to majority vote, you cannot be held accountable in this manner, thus dodging this use of the party system, which, in the long run may very well be its most powerful use. | ||
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On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote: I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. You sure you're not Drazerk? Syllo did not take himself out of the running. And his intention to being lazy and actually being lazy are two different things. I intended to get quite a bit of work done today... | ||
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On November 22 2012 04:12 strongandbig wrote: huh like, how random is this? I mean, i can give or take the logic, but did you really need to explain your useless town read right then? No. I didn't think I did. Hence why I didn't at first. When asked for it, I figured it couldn't do much harm either. | ||
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On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote: If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. | ||
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On November 22 2012 05:34 iamperfection wrote: um it is actually true ask anybody. Don't ask me. I think you're scum. You have been completely useless all game and if other people's assessments of your meta are any good, then your town meta is to be constructive rather than yell at the top of your lungs that you're town. My only experience with you was in Caller's failed game, where you were a veteran vampire cult, so I won't go on my own experience playing with you. | ||
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If you are referring to something like you being a playable character and not "old man at the market" or "crono's mom", I really don't think you should put much faith in that... | ||
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On November 22 2012 05:49 iamperfection wrote: oh really would you point to something specific then. You are wanting me to quote the absense of useful posts by you? How am I supposed to do that? If you want examples of you yelling at the top of your lungs that you're town, here's a brief compilation: [spoiler="IAMTOWN!!!1111"] On November 21 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote: So you guys are looking for someone that has a very distinguishable town meta as opposed to his scum meta. Hrm let me think about this for a second??????? hrm who could it possibly me........... Wait a tick fucking me thats who I nominate the perfect one as the leader because he is the best choice. Not only am i town this game i also have a very distinguishable town meta from my scum meta. Also the perfect one is known for his generosity and his fairness i am very active and will be able to keep up with the thread very easily so i will easily take the towns input for selecting my team So vote iamperfection 2012 Not only am I town, but everybody can see that I'm town from my meta!!! Not seeing it yet... On November 21 2012 13:01 iamperfection wrote: also you people that have played with me before do not ignore me you know what i say is true. Call me town, pretty please? On November 21 2012 13:15 iamperfection wrote: so we need someone who can hadle pressure well??? Once again me GSL II me as scum terrible game but got very dicey towards the end kush my partner started to wet his pants but i stayed calm and cool led to my victory. Another reason to vote me Dude, I'm town AND awesome! On November 21 2012 13:49 iamperfection wrote: as much as i would love stay up with you fine chaps it is past my bed time For those who have played with me before comment on me. you know i have an easy town meta to read so say what you already know to be true iamperfection should be on the team I am town and I can write it in BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS!!!111 On November 21 2012 23:34 iamperfection wrote: @ marv i should be on the team right. Please Marv, please call me town? [/spoiler] Given that the rest of your filter is almost all meaningless banter, I fail to see how anybody could get a town read from this if your normal town meta is to be constructive. So don't you "ask anybody in the thread" on me as if you are confirmed town. You're not, shape up and stop looking scummy. | ||
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On November 22 2012 05:51 Keirathi wrote: His town meta has nothing to do with being a strong townie, and everything to do with his attitude towards the game. As town he is carefree and says whatever the fuck he feels like. As scum, he's careful, reserved, and can get defensive/apologize when people call something he says or does bad. Nobody has called stuff he says or does bad yet. Lets start! Oh wait, I just did. | ||
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On November 22 2012 06:01 iamperfection wrote: if you really want to figure me out go do some research and come back later. Also this day is half political campaign / scum hunting deal with it. I got some nuggets in there you just ignored them so tl dr you shape up Nice OMGUS you got there. Can I have that with fries? | ||
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On November 22 2012 06:11 iamperfection wrote: just not seeing the effort acro doesn't seem like to me that you really want to figure out my alignment Thank you for pointing out what I do and don't want to do. What I don't want to do is plough through dozens of pages of old games to figure out your town meta, when I am not feeling you're town simply based on how you're playing this game. I obviously got your meta wrong and Keirathi has updated me on it (not sure where I got the idea it was constructive... I could've sworn someone in this thread said so), but I still fail to see how your playstyle is contributing to a townie atmosphere, scumhunting, or even putting forward a decent campaign for how to get a party in the minigames. That does not read like a town player to me. | ||
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On November 22 2012 06:45 BioSC wrote: @Clarity I give my thoughts on what we are doing (Electing a party leader, something we need TOWN reads for), and I give my reads on whom I believe are town right now. Are they based on little info? Yes. Can they change with newer/better info? Yes, but since I agree with what they've said so far, I haven't had a reason to color them red right now. As for the quirp about not scumhunting while scumhunting, that's not what I said. I said, while the focus is on electing a mayor, we should at least try to elect a town. As I believe winning events is crucial to winning the game (almost as much as a lynch, since it is in place of one afaik.) Electing people I believe to be town and having them bring people I also believe to be town makes for a high chance of success. What's not to get? Let me phrase the accusation in a question: what is it that makes you lean town on Marv? | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote: Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all. | ||
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If you agree that the theme could be serious, consider that the first mission in Chrono Trigger is also in a church. The playable characters are Crono, Lucca and Frog. Of these, I feel Frog is the most important, lorewise, in this mission. I don't think an outright claim is in order, but it might be worth considering, if you're one of these chars, in particular Frog, and running for the campaign, to make a more serious go at becoming the party leader. Frog, of all the characters, seems like he would wield the most influence in favour of town in the first mission of Chrono Trigger, assuming lore is an important aspect of this game. | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:40 Dienosore wrote: If I'm such an obvious towny, why haven't y'all expressed it with your votes? There's still enough time to vote me your party leader ^^ I don't think you're obvious town at all. In my first game I rolled scum (GoT mafia). The first thing Chaoser (experienced player on the scumteam) did, was coach us noobs (there were actually three of us) on what kind of things to say. I don't find it in any way weird that this could happen in this game as well... and while I, personally, would not coach noobie scum to play the noobie card quite so openly, I could definitely imagine some players in this game advise that playstyle. It is rather easy to pull off and has everybody fooled off the bat. + Show Spoiler + Sidetrack: in GoT mafia, Chaoser's coaching/plan backfired horribly and it was a miracle that we managed to talk our way out of the trainwreck that was the first few hours. Your recent posts have been better, but I don't have you labeled green yet, let alone obviously green. | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:54 strongandbig wrote: fuck i was really happy that i was gonna get to play a themed game without drazerk in it but no Great minds think alike? | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:54 Hopeless1der wrote: I swear to god if this gains traction I'm going to be pissed. Why? | ||
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On November 22 2012 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: Because my head got bitten off for trying to speculate on setup. Ah, I remember now. Fairly certain I wasn't one of the ones doing the biting, but I have to say that at the time I didn't understand the idea. It just clicked after playing some chrono trigger myself. | ||
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On November 22 2012 08:25 Dienosore wrote: Mine name is Glenn...Cyrus' hopes and dreams...and now the Masamune, forthwith I shall slay Magus and restore honor! There is yet time to aid me on my quest. Elect me your party leader! Ok. This roleclaim was stupid. Which part of "don't roleclaim" did you not get when I said that. I don't believe scum would claim Frog... and I find this play far too ballsy for a noob 3rd party, making this guy an actual town Frog. Sandro, Syllo, Toad: would you take this guy along on a quest? | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:21 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hapa And where does kei allude that he has any idea what his value is? I really don't follow acro's logic, but I'll wait for him to respond then. I was on my way to bed. But I can help you with this one. It's this thing called logic. Keirathi's explanation for CJ being townie based on his first post was that CJ had a low influence value. This implies that CJ would know his influence value. I definitely have no clue about my own influence value (other than what might be given by role). The OP states they are hidden. So Keirathi was, insofar as I knew, making a rather dubious claim. My bullshit detector went off and I made a post calling his post bullshit. Is my post intrinsically townie? Hell no. But I don't believe in letting bullshit bad logic stand. Keirathi explained himself adequately, implying that he had some more information than I do about his influence value. | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:27 Hapahauli wrote: @ Kita Strongly disagree with your analysis on iamperfection. His town meta involves plenty of those spammy one-liners. He's someone I'd strongly consider as a D1 option since his scum/town meta is pretty distinguishable. His play is leaning towards his townie side for sure right now. I do agree with your assessment on kush, but for different reasons though. He's said that he doesn't care about who gets voted in for leader, which is pretty questionable. He also posted early that he was lost, confused, and had no reads. Then recently, he seems pretty adamant about lynching nl_Clarity. Mind explaining this a bit better? I am 100% in agreement with Kita about iamperfection. | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:51 kushm4sta wrote: ^this made me lol. I feel really sick. Like really sick, My symptoms include sore throat, constant shivers, and a fever. What I most regret is I made this really sick breadcrumb saying I was Cyrus and now I won't get to use it. ##Nirvana Strike: Marvellosity Kush, why would you do this? Do you think Marv is scum? Also, if you are feeling terrible, you could probably ask to be replaced out and make VE a very happy guy, rather than ninja striking someone randomly in the middle of D1. You're not Drazerk. | ||
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I like your frankness, but still have a hard time reading you as town. Additionally Prom has been playing very differently from normal. While I have no reason to suspect he's scum, I don't have a townread on him either. I am quite happy with your Dino choice and myself, and will go over both your filters again. @Syllo: I think your choice to keep the party secret is not alignment indicative, but rather something you would do in any case. I was leaning town on you before and nothing has changed. However, I am uncertain about putting blind faith in your choice. @Sandro: If Syllo hadn't said you were scum, I would be campaigning quite hard for you right now. However, you and Syllo know eachother well and his thoughts about you have a lot of weight. I want to see you two interact more. I have to agree with risk: why do you have such a strong town read on Oats? I agree with Prom that Oats looks mostly like a try-hard excited newbie, which is not alignment indicative. @GK: I don't trust you and I don't know why I should vote for you. I prefer a team with Dieno and Kush over a team with GK and Djodref. So why would I vote for you? In fact, why would YOU vote for you, rather than Sandro? In closing: I am still on the fence. I will decide between Kita, Sandro and Syllo. | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:22 syllogism wrote: Acro seems like the only other serious candidate and I do not like his play so far. The most recent post of his that I found off was the one where he suggested for Frog should attempt to run a campaign without claiming and he based this on, in my view, laughable suggestion that frog was a playable character in the first mission of the game. It seemed like a complete fluff post rather than a serious well-thought of suggestion. I admit I didn't have a clear idea of how Frog (or Crono/Lucca) should have played that without claiming unless he was one of the clear candidates for party leader in the first place. I was actually hoping someone would like the idea and help me with the details of how Frog could put himself forward without claiming, but in the end Frog just came forward and claimed. While I think roleclaiming (or nameclaiming in this case) on D1 is almost always a bad idea, I find the claim believable and I think the lore-based approach in general deserves more consideration, so I think Frog is a good candidate to take along on D1. | ||
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On November 22 2012 20:57 risk.nuke wrote: Goodkarma, exclude oats from your mission team and you have my vote. Trust and something approaching praise coming from risk.nuke, how... unusual. Risk, what do you feel is wrong with Sandro and Syllo at the moment? | ||
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There is one post in particular that made alarmbells go off and I don't know how people read this without it just setting off scumdars. It's long, so in spoilers: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 12:11 goodkarma wrote: My current thoughts on party leader: So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him. This sounds insincere. He phrases it as if this is a bad thing, but all we really need to know is whether the party leader is town and able to pick other townies accurately. Why is no additional moves a negative reflection on them? Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was. Clearly false, as Syllo had already said that he thought there was a good chance Sandro was scum. Moreover, the whole game, Syllo has been far more reserved towards Sandro than the other way round. Sandro seems to have an early town read on Syllo, while the reverse was quite obviously not true: in fact, reading between the lines the opposite could be expected, because Syllo said he'd be lazy if he was confident in Sandro, yet decided to run for leader all the same. Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game. So, in Summary...: While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this... Fair enough. My Current Plan: I will be reassessing my reads by going back through everyone's filters, and selecting my own party. There are plenty here who are not as familiar with my "meta," or who have never played with me before. I can understand how it is that it would be hard for them to vote for me or take me as seriously as their favorite vet. However, blindly voting your favorite guy is a system I refuse to be a part of. The heavy vet preference from other players comes, as best I can tell, from this logic: "Well, I'm too lazy/incompetent/troll to play this game so I want to vote for someone who I know actually tries..." Blatant misrepresentation of people's thought process. While I appreciate that you don't want to follow Sandroba and/or Syllogism, you are insinuating that anybody voting for a veteran is a sheeple. Some might be, but others have a conscious decision process. Electing someone you trust to form a good party is important, because that is ALL you have control over. The criteria for a good party leader are: he's town and he's able to pick other town. That invariably leads to veterans over newbies, because of the second criteria. The ONLY question is thus whether a veteran, who we have all established can read townies well, is actually town. At this point you seem to think Sandroba is town, yet are doing everything to discredit him. What I am left with is a sense of unease about why you want to be party leader so badly. So your reads on others may not be perfect, but who cares? Why even bother playing a game of mafia if you're just going to throw all your eggs into one basket like all you who have voted for sandroba/syllo have? I myself would rather put all my money on red at the roulette table + Show Spoiler + (I know, how cliche -_-) More of the same. However, there is more here: people are not implicitly trusting Sandroba (Syllo would be blind faith in his ability to pick town): Sandroba is giving out his newbie town reads that he intends to take along with him, and it has been my impression from the start of the game that he would be upfront with this information. You are thus misrepresenting Sandro (not Syllo) as a gamble on their ability to pick town, which is simply not true. Mafia manipulation: Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that. Has advantages and disadvantages. A 4-man team that has a scum will be more likely to get scum backing than a 4-man team without that member. However, without the posterior information that the team actually failed (and therefore had scum in it), that backing is meaningless. I prefer to have successful teams that go a long way to confirm town members than unsuccessful teams. Especially without a lynching mechanism. Even then, it is a 4-man team and I really doubt we have the resources to do 3-1 trades. As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it. By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to. Still. I don't know why you think anybody was doing this at this point... In Conclusion: Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours. Fair enough. I got the general sense of unease in that he was misrepresenting Sandroba's campaign and misrepresenting people's intentions for voting. This is manipulative. I am still not sure it's scum manipulative, or a townie who is doing the wrong thing because he really wants to get a shot at leading a party. Either way, I felt uncomfortable reading this post and the rest of GK's filter does not swing me towards a town interpretation of the manipulation. | ||
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On November 22 2012 21:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I just caught up, there's actually not a lot in the last 10 pages. The most interesting thing was kush's "action", which could be real or false given the heavy flavor. People seemed to ignore it for a bit, djo pointed it out and people still ignored it. Marv finally ended up reacting to it quite violently as if he was really pissed and knew what was going to happen...? I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv? It's an ability that Cyrus has in Chrono Trigger (yes, I looked that shit up in the chronopedia). Kush claims Cyrus and Nirvana Strikes marv. I can see no reason for Kush, who is playing a lousy game (even lousier than usual), to jump out of nowhere, fakeclaim and fake-ability Marv. It just makes way more sense for this to be real. And given the way he did it, he is expecting to suicide with it. It is pathetic, but I see no reason to mistrust its authenticity. | ||
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I recognize that this is a town quality for some. Players like Sandro and Palmar just give up the minute they see the red name in the role PM. Risk.nuke did a similar thing with SK last game. However, being energetic and excited in your first game ever is NOT a town trait: it is a trait of being excited. That brings us to the content of his posts... and frankly this is a problem. There seems to be very little train-of-thought and a LOT of requiring confirmation from players that he feels are better than him. This could be insecurity, because it's his first game, or it could be scum trying to get town queues that he is on the right track. His case on Clarity is not too good and he harps on about it a bit, but I don't feel this is alignment indicative. More problematic is his stance on Toad. I am still unclear why he thinks that he can get a read on Toad. He has no experience playing with him and has been warned, repeatedly, that Toad is wiley. His reasons: On November 22 2012 01:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Now I have to get his filter again, thanks Acro.. Yes I dont know Toad, he was basically given a slot in the game so I assume that he is some what proficient in the game of mafia. 1. I dont think that a scum would start his OPENING post with a scumread. 2. I think that its hard to fake as scum because, it is likely that his scum team will have some newbies and what he said in his few paragraphs are how to see scum which I see as only being beneficial as town. 3. I am leaning town on him AT THE MOMENT because again, posts like this help to inform town not to let things like this happen. They don't sound sincere. He doesn't "think" scum would start their opening post with a scumread. I have no clue why he thinks that and could point to numerous games where this assumption is patently proven false. In fact, I would say it is the more common way for scum (or anybody) to start their games, especially if coming to the thread a bit late. His second point is meaningless. It is speculation about what the scumteam consists of, and disregards the ability to coach in the QT. And that's it. These are his reasons for having a townread on Toad. I am having a hard time seeing a newbie vote for Toad based on these two flimsy points. A couple of hours later, we have: On November 22 2012 09:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Nice 12 new pages to read... I think with less than 24 hours left, we should consolidate on 2-3 candidates and let them townhunt and convince us that their party is the best, while the rest of us scum hunt ##Unvote ##Vote: Syllogism Lets consolidate! All vote for Syllo. No explanation. This from the guy who a few hours before said: On November 22 2012 00:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm.. Currently, after reading through his filter, I have a null read on Syllo. What did you guys see that gave you a town read on Syllo? And just after voting for Syllo he is starting to backtrack again: On November 22 2012 10:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Kita stop acting like dien.... It really isnt funny.. Anyone object to vote for either Sand/Syllo and want to propose an alternative candidate? I will take the vets metaread on Toad, which was that he was very difficult to read as either alignment. And then we have this gem: On November 22 2012 12:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Diensore, I am not considering you because I dont know if you are town or scum. Simple as that. He is perfectly willing to vote for Syllo without knowing whether he is town or scum, yet not Dieno. Completely inconsistent behaviour. Some more fuel for the "need other people to agree with me"-train-of-thought: On November 22 2012 18:39 Oatsmaster wrote: Currently I am on Syllo, but I would like more people to chime in and vote for their preferred candidate as well in order to confirm my decision. I am having a very hard time drawing a consistent line of thought in his thinking. However, it is not an erratic lack of line, like in Kush or BillMurray's plays. Oatmaster is indicating in other ways that he has a solid grasp of logic. I don't immediately lean scum from this: it is his first game and he might just be over-enthusiastic, yet insecure about his own ability. However, I don't see how you can get a town read with this kind of play. | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:02 kitaman27 wrote: Who said I was suggesting a mass claim? I'm saying we could use a single name claim, only after we identify that the alignments in this game line up with the alignments in the video game. The mafia likely does have safe claims, but if we select a character at random, the odds are in our favor. The rewards certainly outweigh the risks in my opinion. Just caught this: is there something in your role that seems to indicate that alignments are different from game alignments? I for one have no reason to suspect so. | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote: iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. While I agree that iamperfection is a terrible choice and probably scum, your being annoyed is not a scumtell. marv: I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. Healthy mistrust of Marv is okay. I am starting to like how he's playing, but as you said, there are some things wrong with what he has done. I am not leaning scum. I think a scum Marv would absolutely want to run. However, 3rd party is completely possible. risk.nuke Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. A joke, and a "he's scum", without an explanation. Mind expanding this read. I am so far not getting scumvibes on risk. strongandbig His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. Cautiously null. Why single out SnB of all the players you are probably cautiously null on. This just seems weird, and weird things from someone who is otherwise making a lot of sense make me suspicious. kushm4sta I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. True, and at the time I agreed. His wacko suicide claim makes me lean town, though. Also, I am inclined to believe he is sick, which is a damned good excuse for not playing his normal post-alot self. If you notice, the few posts he made are still rather erratic, they're just not as omnipresent. So all in all, this list is pretty damned weaksauce, which makes me wonder why it is here in the first place. At first my eye slipped over it and I thought, "hah, Kita is posting some good content", but on a doubletake it really is not good content at all. | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote: Finally, the Frog role claim may be the most important event that has taken place this game. There needs to be more discussion about it. I'll post my thoughts later tonight. These thoughts never came... From his selected party, it seems obvious he believes the claim and believes Frog to be town (or a beneficial third party at least). He confirms this opinion (or the claim is the confirmation) with Dino's filter. This is somewhat in contrast to his earlier thoughts, where player characters were suspect until mod confirmation through flips. Kita: I really need more info if I am to consider you seriously. I don't like Sandro because I have not yet made up my own mind and Syllo's caution is weighing heavily on my mind. I don't like Syllo, because he is too secretive. You are making a lot of sense. To decide between you three, I want all three of you to post your thoughts, answer questions and allow me to make up my mind. @Dieno: I think you're probably town. Don't give me no bullshit about a poll. Who would you take in your party? | ||
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Both. His posts make a lot of sense, but his alignment is puzzling me. | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:27 marvellosity wrote: You dissected his reads post well enough yourself. Presumably you do not characterise that post as "making a lot of sense", then. Was it just an anomaly? Well, I don't disagree with any of his reads, so in that sense it makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make a lot of sense is why that post even exists and why there is so little explanation in it... Before I talk more, I would like to hear from Kita himself, though. I want to hear what he has to say, and if I talk more then he will know what to say to make me feel good about him. | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:29 Clarity_nl wrote: I like questioning people, and I think it works best if it's like a conversation rather than me post a blurb of text followed by a single question, when that method of gets shut down as being called spammy or useless I guess it got me down. My goal for today is to scumhunt. I think the election thing is important but I don't have to post much for it, just have to find my biggest townread who is running and look at their reads and see if I agree. If I do, that's great, back to scumhunting. I haven't been as succesful, or I guess felt as succesful, as I did last game. I'll definitely have some reads ready before resolution period though. I'm just bitter that you get away with playing the way I want to play, but I don't, I guess. <coaching mode> I think the main difference between Marv's questions and your questions is that Marv's always seem to lead somewhere. They are poignant things that, when read, make one think "hey, I would like to know that". For instance, his questioning me just now made me actually think MORE about my own posts and Kita, and analyze my own thought process. Me being forced to post that, gives everybody an insight into how I think and that is an incredibly important tool for scumhunting. However, your questions seem to be more sidetracks. Something like this: On November 21 2012 12:02 Clarity_nl wrote: So you're saying that you deduced that scum will know hp by flavor claims, or anything for that matter? Please explain to us idiots. Questions like this are not scumhunting, they are questions about setup, and Sandro's thought process will not be laid bare in this way. A couple of questions like this is fine. Too many and people get tired and label you as unproductive. Questions/statements like this: On November 21 2012 13:16 Clarity_nl wrote: But if we put up our strongest townread, doesn't that defeat the purpose? I think we should play more to our wincon when it comes to missions and just scumhunt like it's a regular game. are somewhere between meaningless and stating the obvious. There seems to be quite a lot of that in your filter. In general, going through your filter it is hard to find what you are trying to accomplish with your questions. That is not a good thing. The disconnectedness and one-liners make your filter hard to read and seem very fluffy. I think that is probably what Marv is getting at when he asks what you are trying to accomplish. </coaching mode> I have no clue what to think of you atm, Clarity, which is why I'm bothering with the coaching. If I thought you were scum that would be pointless. | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro you cant ignore my response to your post It took like 15 minutes to actually type it out..Our vote for party leader has to be cast before the 47 hour limit right? And 47 hours from the start is around 9 hours from now right? I dont want to wake up too late and miss the vote time. I acknowledge that you made a response. Does that make you warm and fuzzy inside? Why do you need me to respond? | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:38 Toadesstern wrote: A finally TL is working for me again, back to what I was saying earlier in the morning when I wasn't able to open the votingthread or this thread anymore. I think we should be voting Kita. I love voting Kita. ##vote Kita If I read your train of thought straight, then your only reason for voting Kita is because there is no bandwagon on him. That is a supremely shitty reason to vote for Kita and you know it. What do you think of Kita? What do you think of the things Marv and I pointed out? What do you think of his team suggestion? Do you agree with him that Prom, Dieno and I are town? | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: RIght.. so you asked certain questions and when I answer them you dont care . well. Also how hard is it to delete irrelevant parts of a quote if you are not going to address/answer them? Oh, I care. I just don't see what my answering your answer would accomplish. | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. | ||
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On November 22 2012 23:54 syllogism wrote: Okay acro, if you are town you are compelled to vote for me now for being inside your mind Explain your read on Sandroba a bit better. Your read felt too much based on emotions which is something I cannot follow as I am not inside your head (despite you being inside mine). Also, explain to me in detail what purpose the secrecy serves. You say it's to prevent scum manipulation of the party vote, because someone is bound to include scum. However, I fail to see how blindly trusting you to prick through all scum ploys is a step up from that: if you're town and confident in your town reads, you can gain more votes by posting your party. That will increase the chance of you and your townie frends being chosen to go on a mission, with victory for all! Secrecy seems counterproductive. | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? | ||
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Then please explain your thought process instead of being intentionally counterproductive. | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: I can't explain it better than I have. It doesn't feel like he cares about figuring things out and there is no sense of urgency despite him being one of the most likely people to be elected. He has made no attempts at figuring out who mafia is and it seems to me he is hiding behind the fact he doesn't have to. There is being lazy and then there is just not caring. My other reasons rely on my knowledge of how he thinks and some of the things he has said feel off; can't elaborate more on that. Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest). If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public. That is a very fair answer. ##unvote | ||
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All I can think of is that this is some elaborate plot so later you can jump out and say "hah, I caught scum!" However, all I am getting from this is Toad acting in a completely untoady manner, which makes me LESS inclined to believe any conclusions you think you could draw from this later. Bad play is bad play, regardless of whether you played badly on purpose. | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote: Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way:because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Oh god, is this Toad the drama queen feeling unloved because he didn't get elected party leader, so will now throw a temper tantrum by playing badly until the rest of town listens to him? | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:38 Dienosore wrote: I hope I haven't committed suicide with this post :X + Show Spoiler + Alright, guys. I've been doing a lot of watching these past 30~ pages or so. I've come up with this aggregate system that isn't based around calling people towny or scum, but rather personal interactions. Using my extraordinary abilities to decipher what people mean rather than what they say, I've drawn out what I think is turning out to be a very interesting relationship map, and here it is: ![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/22mao4.jpg) The wiggly lines show hate/distrust, while the straight lines show some sort of companionship. There are a few other types of lines in there that represent different things, but I don't really feel like going into depth about every little mark. From this, I am able to extrapolate what I see into a larger picture. The only things that really set off flags for me are these: - Djodref and Goodkarma coming up as strong scumreads. - Kitaman drawing a lot of attention for little reason. - CaveJohnson coming up as scummy. - Iamperfection being indicated in secret relationships with SnB and CaveJohnson. I've also spotted some sort of mysterious link between Promethelax/Kushm4sta, Promethelax/Kitaman, and Risk.Nuke/Promethelax. I find it hard to think townies would be forming these sort of clandestine connections this early in the game, though it does not necessarily make them scum. There is always the possibility of a third party out there. Right now, I havn't really made any clear towny reads using this map other than Syllo. Sandroba was clear town for me until Syllo raised some suspicion with his >50% remark. Another flag is the sudden surge of support for Kitaman27 from people who I've dubbed as suspicious. What's also interesting is who is not on the map. BioSC caught a bit of negative attention from Iamperfection early on, then sort of disappeared. Not sure what this means. Alright that's all I have for now. Looking through all my info, it's pretty clear that I'm not going to be first leader, and that's fine with me. I just hope I get in the party and survive the night. +1. Made me laugh. Would read again. Why do you have the Scum? by my name, yet I don't appear in your scumreads based on this? | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:55 marvellosity wrote: I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so. Marv claiming scum. He expects to be around after N1. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:00 iamperfection wrote: what do you know about this bio guy? I know I mistakenly vig shot him in Bastard 2 when he was being just as scummy as he is now. So I'll be a bit more careful this game in calling him scum based on lurk and meaningless posts. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:06 Dienosore wrote: If you'll look closely, it says Scum? not Scum. I'm not going to flat out accuse anyone who I'm not entirely sure of. But know my eye is on you, Acro. Oh and I know you have some secret relation with CaveJohnson. Dude, that's way cool, you found out! CaveJohnson is secretly my daddy. He's not very nice, though, he only gives me lemons to play with. I wish my mommy was here. In all seriousness. Based on what do I have this secret connection. I seem to be missing CaveJohnson's name in all the squiggly lines flying all over the place. And yes, I am trying to take this seriously, but having a really hard time of it. You sure you're not BillMurray smurfing? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:13 marvellosity wrote: I'm not suddenly going to think I'm better than everyone else when I didn't before, no But I feel quite integrated into this game by now and this helps a lot with how I feel vis-a-vis running for party leader.sandroba has question marks over his head by syllo. kitaman has done nothing to make me think he's town, plus i disagree with a few of his reads. Doesn't make him scum necessarily, but I don't trust him. syllo would as it stands get my vote next cycle too, but it might be best if power isn't that concentrated. Translation: my scumteam and I are happy to let things slide this cycle, but next cycle we need to get shit done. Am I doing this right, Marv? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:35 Dienosore wrote: Your deflection of my accusation only reaffirms it in my mind. Being linked to CaveJohnson isn't a good thing, as he is looking pretty scummy from more than a couple angles, so maybe it's time for you to lay low if you want to take the heat off yourself (and there is much heat right now). Yeah... okay. Mind answering the question? Where is that connection in your squiggly chart and where is it in the game? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:50 Acrofales wrote: Yeah... okay. Mind answering the question? Where is that connection in your squiggly chart and where is it in the game? Bah, nevermind. Should finish catching up on the thread before commenting. Thanks Marv. I'll go back and read now. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:51 Dienosore wrote: It was just strange to me that he goes from seeing him as a random unknown smurf to a pretty sure 3rd party with basically no face to face interaction. Not the best of evidence, I admit. That's why it's a lightly drawn loopy line rather than big, bold and angry line. You mean... the fact that I didn't jump up and say "HAH, 3RD PARTY" the minute he made that post? I saw no reason to. It was in my notebook though (which unfortunately is not nearly as pretty with squiggly lines and a mini dino in the top corner). | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:11 Dienosore wrote: @phagga I identified them as scum early game due to their posturing and grammar. I didn't have much to go on then, so I had to make some advanced reads based on 1-2 pages of filter. I wasn't entirely sure. Since then, however, there has been so many indicators that if I were to compile them all here it would take up too many hours of my Thanksgiving. Just a sample then. If you recall, I askedyou for that yesterday and you never delivered... | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:30 marvellosity wrote: just emphasising. What 2 data points were you referring to, though? Own and Cyrus, I presume. | ||
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On November 23 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote: You are not taking me on missions without me killing you. If I lie I'll lie hopefully we'll catch people from it but apparently you don't understand baits. I fucking knew it. I wish I was a vig | ||
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On November 23 2012 03:51 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah I saw that Kei, and I think it's really really stupid. Being scared of a possible D1 mafia manipulation isn't a good reason to sheep blindly on a player. It's like wanting to no-lynch on D1 in a normal game because there's a supposed "low chance of hitting scum." You lynch D1 anyway because of the amount of information we gain from the votecounts. Syllo is proposing an "optimal" strategy that completely neuters the amount of information we'll gain from the voting. This is fucking retarded. We still know the party, we just don't know his reason for picking them. If you mean that we are voting for 1 person, rather than 4, it has its advantages and disadvantages. Less easily manipulated by scum (assuming the chooser isn't actually scum himself), but gives less of a basis to vote on. Do you think Syllo is not town? | ||
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Hopeless1der: where are you? You have lots of posts in your filter, but they are all 1-liners. I have NO clue what you're thinking about anything actually pertinent to this game. You have corrected people's logic and asked some questions. That seems to be about it. I can't even find your vote or ANY indication of who you might vote for. Last time you lurked you were obvious scum. You taking the same approach? | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:06 Hapahauli wrote: Hopefully his vote should give you some reservations about the current voting Acro... Scum has to place their vote somewhere... | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:02 Hapahauli wrote: I have no idea and that's the problem. Syllo hasn't done anything. He hasn't provided reads, and his only major contribution has been his "trust me I'll do everything" campaign. The only person who I've seen give something resembling a "read" on Syllo is Sandrob, who discussed in vague terms how he thought Syllo was town based on skype convos or something. That's an absurd reason to trust someone at this point in the game. Honestly, I'd insta-lynch someone for doing what Syllo's doing in any other game, but the circumstances in this set-up are quite unique and make me lean more null to him. I don't think you're doing his filter justice with this post. He has given a rather important scumread. Whether it's right or not I am having a hard time determining, but the fact that Sandro isn't in here telling Syllo he's bad/stupid/scum for not recognizing him as town is almost MORE telling than the read in itself. I haven't seen Sandro allow people to call him scum as town without a fight. Now Sandro would not be my first choice for a lynch, and I would generally be opposed to a D1 lynch based on this little information, but I am not getting the town vibes that Sandro usually throws off in spades, which, combined with Syllo's read is quite telling. I am not the only one in the thread feeling that way. Granted, Syllo could be scum and very manipulative, managing to get us all to switch off Sandro, but that would be a completely new meta for him. The only scumgame I played with him, he disappeared from the thread and called everybody stupid. Town was onto him pretty early. He has not played like that at all this game. | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:31 phagga wrote: The problem is that we cannot hold you accountable. You might very well take a scum on your team and fail the mission on purpose. I guess it boils down to that town is giving up a lot of control over the first event if they don't know who you want to take with you. You are claiming all power over the first team. Do you believe he's town? If you do, why do you think he would take scum along on purpose? All that really matters here is whether syllo is town or scum (or 3rd party). | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:25 Hopeless1der wrote: MAFIA MIGHT BE ABLE TO KILL/ALTER THE SUCCESS IF THEY KNOW THE PARTY MEMBERS HERPA FUCKING DERP Night actions are resolved AFTER the mission. Mementos already stated that. Herpa fucking derp yourself. | ||
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##vote Syllogism | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:10 marvellosity wrote: I never said I was being obviously town. Depends how you describe utility. Mine being "get my preferred candidate elected". There aren't that many who can claim to have succeeded in that. What the hell is this? Seems to me that the majority got their preferred candidate elected, or they wouldn't have voted for him. Do I like everything Syllo is doing? No. But I like him more than the other candidates, particularly Hapa, who is yet another from the gang of people who seem to be doing a great job of calling each other town for no reason I can see (Hapa, GK, Clarity, Keirathi, iamperfection). | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:12 Promethelax wrote: the "oh maybe I'm reading you wrong because you are trying to post differently" you don't have confidence in your read there which is something I expect from you. one of them has to be mafia because if neither of them was the mafia play d1 was useless and without goal. I've said this before but assuming that mafia wanted to be in the party one of Syllo/Sand is 100% mafia. The only way this is not true is if mafia did not want to be in d1 party. Sorry bro, I read you as scum right now; we'll see if I'm still bad or if maybe I can read you now. Mafia have been ditched in elections before today. If both Sandro and Syllo are town, then mafia never stood a chance in this election in any case. Biding their time and waiting till after they can kill off some of the more influential town players seems like a decent move in that case. Or maybe they have some fiendish ability they can use to sabotage a mission regardless of whether there's a scum in it. It'd be super powerful, but god knows what's in this game. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:13 Keirathi wrote: You haven't really done anything to push people towards voting syllo though. You just dropped a vote on him early, and then argued with people about other less important things. Yea, you argued pretty heavily against kita, but he never really had much support. I feel like if you were really trying to "get your preferred candidate" elected, you would have been talking to people voting for sandro and asking them why and trying to convince them that syllo was a better choice. Why do you think that? Why do you feel it was necessary? Syllo was managing that quite well by himself. I agree that Marv had little part to play in the wagon on Syllo, but accusing him of NOT doing things that were patently unnecessary is just weird. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:22 Keirathi wrote: Ermm what? I haven't given a town read to a single person in that list :o Oh, maybe I got my buddying network confused. Will have to go over filters again. Maybe I got mutual buddying from one-way town reads. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:23 Promethelax wrote: I believe a mafia player would have created a campaign. They could not have known that Sand and Syllo would own the fuck out of this election. Unless they did not want to be in the party which, as you state there could be reasons for. However it is easier for me, and makes more sense according to Occam, that scum wanted to be in the party. Anyways, its mah birthday and I'm going out to dinner with my folks and my young lady. I'll be back eventually. I hope the quest goes well, gl guys. Happy birthday and have fun! But how are you so sure no scum ran today (or if they did have to be in Sandro/Syllo pair)? Kita, GK, Hapa and Toad all took a stab at it. Any of them could be scum. Why you fixing on the syllo/sandro situation? Because they are the only two who gained momentum? Plenty of reasons why scum is afraid to start a wagon (meaning that if nobody else does, it fails). Particularly because if the party fails they suddenly have their whole scumteam on a scummy wagon. Same as any mislynch really. Scum tends not to be the first to vote. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:17 Clarity_nl wrote: You don't think that if syllo is scum it would be easier for him to explain his choices after he sees how the mission turned out? Obviously he'll say he had a townread on all three, but he might explain WHY differently. If you think Syllo is scum, why are you voting for him? Also, this would be a fucking ballzy move from a scum Syllo to pull. Between that and calling Sandro scum on D1? Fuck me. And yes, I have a town read on Syllo. While I don't much like the secrecy, I understand his reasons and feel he has enough experience to pull town through on this first day. If he doesn't, well, then we will definitely discuss that tomorrow. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Prome, if marv is scum, and one of the syllo/sand is scum, does that mean syllo is scum? Because the way you're saying it, why would marv be backing syllo if sand is scum? Because the shitstorm is flying I want to point out this insightful comment by Clarity. I want this to be noticed by Prom when he gets back. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:36 marvellosity wrote: It's quite interesting that sandroba hasn't really fought against the accusation really either. Yeah. I did mention that a couple of pages back. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:34 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait, I think syllo is scum now? You need to read the thread more. Okay, maybe your hypothetical confused me. I don't see the reasoning in your question if you believe Syllo is town... but now that I think about it I don't think I see the reasoning in your question either way. Never mind about it. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:44 Clarity_nl wrote: I think both syllo and hapa are town. But hapa says he'll take me on the team and syllo is saying he won't reveal his team. I am seriously considering switching to hapa but I need him to answer my question about GK. How do you not see the reasoning? I was asking marv about syllo's idea, not syllo. The problem with this reasoning is that if syllo is scum, he already KNOWS how this mission is going to turn out: it will be a failure. The WHY he picked the players is not going to change. Plus, if this mission fails, as Marv said, the first person I suspect for scum is Syllo himself. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:50 Clarity_nl wrote: I understand the argument of why witholding the names isn't bad, I fail to see the reasoning of why it's good. Again though, hapa is willing to take me, and I'm 100% town to myself, obviously. | ||
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Explain your town read on Hapa. Now I am really really leaving | ||
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On November 23 2012 07:15 Z-BosoN wrote: On this game I can tell SnB's filter looks more like the last game we played with and he was town (which I got right, thanks) than in his scum games, and marv wouldn't have been crazy enough to give SnB a scum read here, from either faction. Not sure I understand your issue, do you not interact with people you are suspicious of? What do you think of snb? Do you agree that adam looks like new scum trying to blend in? In case this hadn't been mentioned yet. The meta I know about adam is that he lurks regardless of alignment. He is also definitely not new. He's been around for longer than I have. | ||
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On November 23 2012 09:16 Toadesstern wrote: How is that a soft defense? I basicly said that I would not have picked Deinosaur, as in I didn't consider him to be a clear townie at all. I said I want Sandroba and Marv lynch. What part of that post is defending someone? How could you NOT have a town read on this guy? I'm boggled. He's like a transparent BillMurray. | ||
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So, given that, I think I will follow SnB's advice and just ignore him. Which leaves Sandro. I am not sure I like the bandwagon that is already forming on him, but I can't ignore the fact that he is acting like his scum self, and not his town self. I will also be looking into the other competition for the party leadership more closely. Particularly Hapa: I was null on him, but the whole lastminute campaigning really made me wary. Will read his filter more closely tomorrow. | ||
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On November 23 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote: The BillMurray who's playing like and idiot from time to times (I'm trying to be nice), keeps on blackmailing people as a mad hatter so that noone lynches him and actually succeeds in doing so because people think there's no way he'd be that stupid as mafia so they think he's just really a stupid Drazerk-like townie. I have never ever figured out BillMurray in my life in a game of mafia with confidence and I played some games with him. Does that answer your question? Yes I'd agree the comparison you did isn't complete bullshit, hence my astonishment because I'd neither label any of those 2 transparent. Never ever. BM takes some figuring out, but I am fairly certain I can read him accurately now. This is like a completely transparent version of the same. I mean.. the notepad? That was just so... I dunno. I just cannot see a scum doing that ever in a million years. Add to that the clueless campaign and the nameclaim and I was pretty certain he was town. | ||
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On November 23 2012 11:55 Djodref wrote: Taking a look at Dieno latest posts and at his filter, I think that we can be confident that he is indeed Frog. Is there anyone still doubting his claim ? I would go as far as to say that he is town, and not 3P. You could just ask him. He has claimed, helped town and taken a shitton of damage. 3rd party in that situation seems like a good idea to claim. I know I would if I was a survivor type deal. Dieno: is your wincon to win with town? Anything else special about it? Not sure who speculated about you needing to maybe kill someone? | ||
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On November 23 2012 12:09 Toadesstern wrote: Could someone explain what dieno being frog has to do with his alignment? Is that a likely townrole because of the name or why is everyone mentioning that oO http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Frog | ||
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On November 23 2012 12:20 Adam4167 wrote: One way or another, syllogism just picked a winning team. I don't see a conspiracy here, as long as he keeps doing what hes doing, he'll keep getting my vote to keep picking his team. This. I see no reason to suspect Syllo. If things suddenly start going wrong, well.. then we can think about it, but Syllo and his gang are in my town list. Although Marv was in my head when he was surprised that Syllo picked Keirathi. I was only marginally reading town on him. I have some other reads that I was quite a bit more convinced about. | ||
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On November 23 2012 19:07 Djodref wrote: @goodkarma I admit that my vote on CJ is more a result of troll-hunting that scum-hunting. Today is going to be a scum-hunting day but I would say that a CJ lynch is the best lynch right now. I don't want you to trust other players on sandroba's meta: you are voting him, so you need to show your own personal findings which motivated your vote. The Looney Game that I have already mentioned is a good example of a town sandroba going AWOL. I am confused and guess I will have to read that Looney Game. I presume this means you disagree with Hopeless1der's assessment of Sandroba in that game, or did that come later? On November 22 2012 00:16 Hopeless1der wrote: My vote is probably going to sandroba. Second hand knowledge from Looney mafia suggests that he'll have everyone in the game crapping their pants by this time tomorrow. If I by some miracle were voted leader, I'd pick my party members based on apparent knowledge of chrono trigger garnered from the pregame. My ability to make confident day 1 reads is abysmal. I'll still do it, just don't expect me to be right...like ever. | ||
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BioSC On November 23 2012 04:12 BioSC wrote: post from phone, sorry for not being active, visiting with family today (thanksgiving). Assuming i live through tonight, i will be more active during the weekend. keeping up with the thread as best i can, still leaning syllo over sand atm. You better start now. Remember Bastard 2 where I shot you for being a scummy lurker? I am feeling that same feeling. If you're town, prove it. Sandroba If you're town, I presume you know that your behaviour is looking incredibly suspect. Start playing the game for real. If you just keep right on lurking, I will absolutely want to lynch you. Drazerk Have not yet made up my mind about you. I am not feeling the scum Drazerk vibe, but I didn't in Holy Roman either. What I do know is that you have not even tried to be helpful this game, while in Bastard 2 that was what kept me from going after you as rabidly as I wanted. So... lets have it. Less mindless waffle and tell us who you want to lynch today and why. Also, given your stance on noobs, what do you want to do with Dieno, now that he has proven to be useful, and claimed 3rd party? | ||
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On November 23 2012 19:59 Clarity_nl wrote: Acro that quote of hopeless on sand is rather ancient. Although it's interesting that I can't find a more recent quote of hopeless commenting on sand. I wasn't referring to hopless1der's read of Sandro. I was referring to his assessment of what people thought of Sandro in Looney mafia. That is what was confusing me. 2 people saying 2 completely different things about Sandroba's play in the same game. I want to know what Djodref makes of that. | ||
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On November 23 2012 20:24 Djodref wrote: @Acro I was scum in this game and you can see in our scumQT that HiroPro and OriginalName were afraid of sandro. He went AWOL so I've tried to push a sandro mislynch with some other town players but Hiro didn't want to take this risk. Sandro came back just before getting mislynched and one of our partner eventually got lynched. It was also a themed game Ah, so you expect Hopeless simply had his assessment of Sandro wrong: it wasn't his playstyle that inspired fear in scum, but his mere presence. That does make some sense. | ||
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On November 23 2012 20:28 Djodref wrote: You understand it perfectly. You can find some insight of it in our scumQT @Hopeless1der: do you agree with that? Lets hear your thoughts on Sandro. | ||
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The aggression at Keirathi felt forced, but that is about it. He seems open and completely willing to share his thoughts at all times. Also, his reason for running against Syllo follows in a clean, coherent line from his earlier posts. I haven't read a scum game by him, and by reputation I know he can be crafty, however I see no reason to think that that is actually the case at the moment. Next up: GoodKarma. | ||
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On November 23 2012 22:07 sandroba wrote: I am free to play, I'm posting more than the average person and I've contributed a lot. Mind you that 2 out of the 3 people syllo took with him I was planning on taking. I gave out a town read on syllo very early on. As to your question, obviously, since I am town. He has been paranoid about my alignment a lot of times in the past (of the top of my head merc mini mafia and that huge 80 player game), but normally he reaches the correct conclusion soon enough. I have to admit if you are going to bed now, your sleep schedule is INCREDIBLY fubar'd. Good luck with that. On to game matters, 2 questions: 1. what was your reason for wanting to join this game? 2. given that today is a lynch day, who do you think is scum and why? | ||
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On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. Before I actually get going properly on GK's filter there is a question that is still bugging me. GK: why did you want to run for party leader? | ||
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@Dienosore: I am starting to agree with you on the strangeness of some of GK's posts. However, I want you to explain a bit better what in GK's posts reads as contrived. We can compare notes afterwards. We will then use our combined powers to ascertain whether he is scum or not! @everybody else: go ahead and do the same, but please let Dieno answer the question first. It was him who first mentioned this stuff. | ||
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On November 23 2012 22:58 marvellosity wrote: Ok, but for what it's worth (something Dino won't know) BC and DrH pegged goodkarma as scum in... Palmar's normal (LVII?) for making a post that looked way too constructed. I had a look at gk's filter in his town game in newbie XXIV before I made my post earlier, and I didn't feel quite so certainly about it as I thought I would have. XXIV is on the front page if you wanna have a look yourself. I already opened both those games for comparison material | ||
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[QUOTE]On November 23 2012 22:44 Acrofales wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote: For all those who are still distrustful of me: You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then: 1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach... 2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice. 3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba. 4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome. I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest.[/QUOTE] You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_- Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter. [/QUOTE] You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time. | ||
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On November 24 2012 01:06 goodkarma wrote: You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_- Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter. You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time. | ||
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On November 24 2012 01:08 Hopeless1der wrote: It doesn't, but it is definitely not scummy to me. He called out what I presume are two townies (event success) very early. That supposed ability is why he was a candidate in the first place, and he has lived up to that expectation in my eyes. Granted, he gave little in the way of reasoning, and it would be immensely easy to do so as mafia when you know which 'newbies' are town (or at least not mafia), but its still a point in his favor that his most recently proposed party (die/oats/kush) would likely have succeeded as well. (Man, Cyrus and Glenn in the same party? IMBA!) A little bit, but I don't think you're wrong to insist we make a goddamn read for ourselves. Your case on sand shows that he's not trying to win the election. His activity could be to blame for that. -> He doesn't give strong or informed reads. Withholding reasons for a townread to me is not scummy until those same townreads become scumreads. If he continues to read a player as town, I'm fine with that. If they suddenly change to scum, only then do I feel I deserve to know his entire thought process. As a candidate for party leader, I can see why people would want his reads to be as transparent as possible, but I believe that winning the events is more important and I don't consider his 'not trying' to be scummy. Just pointing out that your reasoning is complete shite. If Sandro is scum, he doesn't magically lose the ability to see who is appearing townie in the thread. Add to that that he already KNOWS who is town and it becomes even easier for Sandro to pick a team with three townie noobs in it. We then get to setup speculation about whether that would make the event succeed, but on the face of it I still think 1 scum is enough to sabotage a 4-player mission. So Sandro picking a townie team is indicative only and alone of his ability to pick a townie team, which was never in doubt in the first place. | ||
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I am very uncomfortable with you being a smurf, but playing like a noobie. If you are, in fact, a noobie hiding on a smurf (like we had in HRM) for TL reasons, claiming your identity will not suddenly set lights flashing everywhere. However, if you are someone acting as a misguided noobie as some hairbrained scheme, we need to know. | ||
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On November 23 2012 09:11 TheChronicler wrote: I would be really interested in seeing how sand flips at this point. He'd be really useful as a reference for some people in this thread. I won't put my vote on him until I make a case, though. It's turkey day and I just checked in to see the result of the event. I'll be home in about eight hours. If anything is "testing the water", this is it. Also, lynching Sandroba for information? This post stinks. Other than that I cannot find anything one way or the other in his filter. I do feel TheChronicler is not a total noob from his general knowledge and some random comments he made. Which makes me even MORE curious as to why he is smurfing. He's either someone extremely experienced who is faking a bad plan just to fuck with us, or is someone who is not actually that experienced at all and truly thought the suggestion was good. The former seems very unlikely. The latter I don't know who might feel the need to get away from their meta. In closing, I find TheChronicler more confusing than anything else right now. I agree with Marv that the way the plan was presented and then backed down from felt townie at the time. However, I am back to null after thinking about it a bit more. | ||
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On November 23 2012 21:54 sandroba wrote: @draz are your abilities provable? i.e can you tell us what you intend to do at each deadline? I think this claim is a little too far fetched to be a fake claim. I can't fathom someone fake claiming 20+ different abilities and if he can tell us before he uses it we can verify. You do realize you are saying that a guy who fakeclaimed "Crazed Monk from the Swiss Confederation" is making a crazy fakeclaim is farfetched? This is Drazerk, the compulsive liar we are talking about here, okay? | ||
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On November 23 2012 23:24 strongandbig wrote: Hey thread I'm at the airport Flying to visit my old college roommate in Britain I'll post as much as I can but idk how consistent wifi ill have Plz not to kill me like last time I went on vacation - that's the only time I've ever been mostly chef an I'd rather not repeat it Maybe it has something to do with your scum meta being to lurk the shit out of a game... You'd better deliver when you get back. When you were around I kinda liked your posting, but not enough to make me confident of your alignment. I know you can play better than this. | ||
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On November 24 2012 02:25 TheChronicler wrote: Just like I told marv, I won't be unsmurfing. I'm alive and didn't take any damage, don't think I'm playing like a noob at all. Okay, so you're not picking the easy way out. Did you have some ulterior motive with your plan, or did you suggest it as a serious idea? | ||
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On November 24 2012 02:27 TheChronicler wrote: I also like how I'm the scrub smurf and draz is just sitting up the thread. Well, Draz shits up the thread as either alignment and the best policy on him is to ignore him until you want to lynch him. The fact that Draz HASN'T been shitting up the thread all that much at all, is actually indicative of his town meta. Deflecting much? We're talking about you. | ||
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On November 24 2012 00:33 iamperfection wrote:  Also for anyone having douubts this is town marv again his hearts in it oncce again right marv?? Worst reasoning in the history of terrible reasoning. You place a blatantly obvious "trap", he sidesteps it with a quip and you declare him town? I will give you the benefit of the doubt: what answer would have made you yell "hah, scumbag, I knew it"? And what about this answer confirmed marv as town in your eyes? | ||
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On November 24 2012 02:36 TheChronicler wrote: The revised edition was my original plan but as I was posting it I got cute. Don't know why, that was bad. Was serious about the revised plan. I still think it was a good idea, but if I'm the only one thinking that it must have been bad. Yes... and my million dollar question is how someone who is apparently fairly experienced in mafia could not see that this plan was bad. The main problem is that the rest of your play has been fairly standard. You're not ranting like a maniac, like Risen or Bluelightz, and you're not derping it up with crazy logic like BM. Which means you *should* have been able to see how bad that plan was. And that is what's bugging me. Because if you knew how bad the plan was, then there is no town motivation for posting it. And that's why I want to know your identity. If you are prone to derps like thinking that that plan was good, then you might be town, but otherwise I can only see scum motivations for posting that. Now, lets move on to the other stuff Djodref pointed out: explain your vote for Syllo. | ||
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Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning. Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. | ||
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On November 24 2012 02:55 Dienosore wrote: Okok, Im awake again. I'd like to hear everyone's stance on a Robo roleclaim before the next party selection. Should Robo claim? When would be the best time for him to expose himself? Who should he replace on the team? Is it really worth exposing a strong member for the sake of him being there during the proper time period? well? We're not selecting a party, we're deciding who to lynch. You can help us with that, though, there are questions for you! + Show Spoiler [irrelevant bla about robo] + Robo claiming is irrelevant atm. Even in the future I don't feel Robo as strongly as I did Frog: rescuing the queen felt integral to Frog's story and the developing plot. Robo feels irrelevant storywise (but then again, I'm not even halfway through the game yet, so /shrug). | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:11 TheChronicler wrote: If that JUST made me scum to you you're lying or not reading the thread. I already said that exact point earlier in the thread. Admitting my plan is faulty isn't scummy, it's honest. Why do you think it is? Well, you managed to make a giant logic flip twice in your mind now.. and it feels like POST-HOC rationalization for your syllo vote, which is a direct scumtell. Reasoning it out: On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility. So you were convinced your plan was bad. Good, it was. However, at the time, nor about 10 minutes ago did you give anybody the idea that you were convinced your plan was bad. You left off the plan saying it was "probably just bad"... which sounds more like you were cowed into silence than convinced. That was fine at the time. We then have: On November 24 2012 02:36 TheChronicler wrote: The revised edition was my original plan but as I was posting it I got cute. Don't know why, that was bad. Was serious about the revised plan. I still think it was a good idea, but if I'm the only one thinking that it must have been bad. So all this time, you thought your plan was a good idea. Yet you voted for Syllo, because "if your plan was bad, then the opposite of that plan must be good"? But you never thought your plan was bad in the first place. There is no coherent train of thought here. It is a post-hoc rationalization of incongruent behaviour. You voted syllo to blend in with the crowd and it is coming back to bite you. ##vote TheChronicler | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote: So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded. | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:28 TheChronicler wrote: Acro stop being bad. Go through my filter and you'll see me say my plan must be bad much earlier. You're pointing to a contradiction that doesn't exist. Sigh... What a useless diversion. Zbo scum? The "probably bad" was your first (and only, up until just now) mention of the plan being bad. It is here: On November 21 2012 12:48 TheChronicler wrote: Alright, it's probably just bad. I just wanted to spread it out b/c I don't want to elect a scum person and have them controlling everything. From this I don't infer that you are actually convinced your plan is bad. You leave space open for it to go any way. I did feel convinced you were disabused of any thoughts about your plan when you responded to me, though: On November 22 2012 03:37 TheChronicler wrote: I agree with your first two points, but I disagree with the third. Simply because he wants more people involved in the decision doesn't mean he doesn't want the responsibility. I'm assuming he's voicing the idea for whoever the leader ends up as. It's very similar to my idea. You didn't try to play it up as if the plan was good, or your idea should be brought back to the table. You simply gave your reasoning behind it. However, the problem is now. Your reasoning for voting for Syllo doesn't feel right at all. Lets look for any indication you think syllo is town: On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight. Not here. On November 23 2012 03:50 TheChronicler wrote: I don't think we should be going for a swap with 4 hours left. I'm happy with my vote on syllo. Not here. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility. And least of all here. This reinforces my suspicion that you are scum and didn't need to "think" Syllo was town, because you knew Syllo was town. If someone at any point had asked me (and I believe they did) why I was voting for Syllo, my answer is: I believed Syllo to be town and trust his judgement to pick townie party members. You skip over the "I think Syllo is town" part in every one of your explanations for your vote and justify it with contrived excuses that give post-hoc rationalizations for a sheep vote. Ergo: you're scum | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:42 Djodref wrote: @TheChronicler I think you don't know how to keep your story straight Yeah, I should just have said that instead of posting walls of quotes :D | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote: nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked. Why are you discarding Kita and GK in that case? | ||
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Plan: On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote: Useless. Don't post like this. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people" ![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg) | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:57 Dienosore wrote: Sorry guys, I was smokin a blunt. What were the questions directed at me again? That explains a lot! On November 23 2012 22:51 Acrofales wrote: I was going to put some examples here, but I have a better idea that will let me figure out more about the unique capabilities of our squiggly line drawer :D @Dienosore: I am starting to agree with you on the strangeness of some of GK's posts. However, I want you to explain a bit better what in GK's posts reads as contrived. We can compare notes afterwards. We will then use our combined powers to ascertain whether he is scum or not! @everybody else: go ahead and do the same, but please let Dieno answer the question first. It was him who first mentioned this stuff. On November 23 2012 20:27 Djodref wrote: @Acro Dieno didn't claim 3rd party in my opinion. The "I am a frog so I'm not town" thing was a joke. @Dieno: Am I right ? And while we're at it: your opinion of TheChronicler? | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:03 Toadesstern wrote: because neither of them were a serious the first 30hours. That is patently false. GK made himself candidate before Syllo did. Insofar as I recall Kita did too, or at worst just afterwards. While completely and utterly ignored by the thread, they did put forward a plan and voiced their intention to become leader. Them not gathering momentum doesn't seem to be a good criteria at all. Sandroba and Syllogism will always gather votes simply by being who they are. | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:07 marvellosity wrote: I want an answer to this in particular. Stating you don't like giving out townreads as it gives scum targets when your plan was for people to give townreads to other people to give townreads for yet more people doesn't make sense. Explain, TheChronicler. Oooh, posting pictures of Marv brings him back to the thread!  | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:13 marvellosity wrote: Saying I look like that is worse than calling me scum. :<  | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:19 kitaman27 wrote: Considering I have to submit a lynch guess tonight or else I receive a huge chunk of damage, it really would be nice if you would be able to take tomorrow off instead Also, I've been pulled into watching an awful family movie. Looks like I'll be posting in a couple hours XD On a scale from 1 to 10, how bad for town is it if you take 200 damage? | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:20 Dienosore wrote: IDK if I'm town, but I win with town. As for GK, he's popped up a couple times on my map, but the squigglies protruding and intruding his bubble are too varied for any reliable read right now. I havn't specifically examined him yet, so idk. My earlier leanings was scum, mostly because he attacked my credibility a few times for no real reason. Also, his demeanor was setting off some flags, but as many of you kindly have pointed out english isnt his first language. That was Zbo. Insofar as I know, GK is from the US of A! | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:33 kitaman27 wrote: I have 24 hours from the last day post, so about 4.5 hours. If its not a mafia ability, then the player responsible should be claiming and explaining why they are targeting me with it. Otherwise, if they are caught with it at a later point then they should be assumed anti-town. Be back as soon as I can. Assuming you're town, of course... One thing I am not liking about this whole ordeal is that you are winging a lot about it, rather than hunt scum. Someone pointed out that this should put a burr under your ass to scumhunt fast and get a clear lynch candidate. Now imho we have a clear lynch candidate, but you have posted 0 reads today. It is making me very uneasy, but I don't see a scum motivation for being apathetic in this situation either. You woke up, said you'd catch up and since then your contribution has been a QQ that Syllo is not posting scumreads. Post your own scumreads ffs. | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh, you are definitely right, I missed that post by djodref, and was thinking it was a response to acros. Due to that I flipped and read his filter and noticed how badly his story pans out. Anyways, the posts acro and djodref made afterwards are extremely damning and show exactly how TC is unable to keep his story straight. He's unclear on wth he expects from his leader. It's incredibly suspicious how he has gone AWOL right now as well. Yep, that guy's scum. Well, he did say he was on his phone and his battery was dying. But I think he's scum without holding circumstantial stuff like that against him. | ||
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On November 24 2012 05:40 syllogism wrote: I was going to wait until tomorrow so I could see who people are pushing today without me, to an extent, locking down discussion. I don't think it's particularly working though and kita can't wait (whether he is town remains to be seen, but I don't think it's worth the gamble). I'm fairly certain that sandroba is mafia. He hasn't done anything useful whole game long and he definitely could have. Everything that I've said about him before is still applicable. Even if he has been busy, it was by choice. No one forced him to run for election and he could have at any time dropped out and supported me. If he was town, I think he would have as soon as he figured out that I'm town. Moreover, his attitude when he came back is still wrong. Instead of attempting to convince me or even address me, he just addresses everyone generally. He claims that I have been paranoid about his alignment in merc mini and that 80+ player game, but that is false or an exaggeration. In the huge game I was, in fact, pushing him for mayor on day 1 (we were both town). In merc mini I was only slightly suspicious because his ability completely broke the game, but I never wanted to lynch him at any point; the only suspicions were voiced over PM. If he was town, he would be attempting to convince me, not play down my ability to read him accurately. To those who believe sandroba is town, what do you think mafia did on day 1? Who is mafia? Did they really have no one who could have ran and won? Do you think it's kita or acro were the mafia candidates then? Why do you randomly include me in that list? Anyway, I just haven't gotten around to Kita yet, because I got sidetracked by TheChronicler. What is your opinion of him? | ||
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If you are town, you really should be giving your identity as it could save us from a mislynch. | ||
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On November 24 2012 06:52 TheChronicler wrote: Haha, I kind of want to because I think it would shock people, but I'm not going to give out my identity. I chose to smurf for a reason. Please stop asking me to reveal. My defense hasn't been erratic. Where has it been erratic? I think you latched onto Z-Bo's posting and instead of looking at how you were wrong you're clinging to how you could possibly be right. No. Your defense has been erratic, because you are not being logical. You are basically reacting in exactly the opposite way I would expect you to react. I point out a very clear contradiction and you say "there is no contradiction". It's not scummy, it's not townie, it's erratic. If I believe you are honest in not seeing how your behaviour clearly flipflops between two completely different viewpoints, then a lot of the reasons I think you're scum drops away. And THAT is what I am trying to assess by allowing you a chance to give me some meta-information. Anybody have a clue who this guy is? In addressing you directly, not that I believe there is much point, I will explain the two contradictions in my own words, rather than through your quotes. Contradiction 1: - Your plan calls for town reads, the more the merrier. - You tell people you don't want them to share town reads. Reasons for town to do this: their brain is switched off. Reasons for scum to do this: present a plan! It's the townie thing to do. Stop people from sharing town reads! It's an easy way to look like you're contributing without contributing. Easymode scumcruise under the radar. Whoops, I forgot about my plan. Contradiction 2: - Dudes, I have an awesome plan - Okay guys, I am going to vote for Syllo, because he is doing the OPPOSITE of what I wanted, and what I wanted was bad. - Dudes, my plan was always awesome! Reasons for town to do this: their brain is switched off. Reasons for scum to do this: not well thought-out post-hoc rationalization of an easy sheep vote to blend in. Yes, your vote was a sheep. Say all you like that you were an early adopter, but I absolutely disagree: you came in after Marv and his sheeples were already on there. That vote flew COMPLETELY under the radar, thus the very definition of blending. | ||
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On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote: I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil. Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight What does thanksgiving have to do with it? He said he spent all night at a girl's place (not that that explains his absence during the day, but he was largely absent during the D1 as well). Syllo: is it normal for Sandro to work during the day and play in the evenings/night? Or does he, like me, spend the entire day at work procrastinating by F5ing the thread and poring over filters? If the latter, his absence is indeed weird. | ||
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On November 24 2012 06:59 syllogism wrote: You don't have to do anything other than sheep me Lol. At least you're living up to your town meta | ||
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On November 24 2012 06:46 TheChronicler wrote: You don't take other people's opinion into account when choosing who to lynch? This is really flimsy reasoning for voting me. It's plurality lynch and there's another 25 hours to go until the deadline, so: HELL NO. | ||
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On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote: I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more. He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such. Okay. Do you remember any game where you and Sandro were opposite alignments? | ||
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On November 24 2012 07:30 syllogism wrote: Off the top of my head games where I was town and he was mafia: liar game (pm game, but I figured him out day 1), pypi (pm game, this was mostly won based on setup/role related reasons, he was ignored for a while). I was mafia in personality and responsibility, while he was town. You aren't going to find anything useful in those games You're right. I didn't | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:59 goodkarma wrote: Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own. I asked. Scum get fake claims. Do you still feel the same? | ||
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On November 24 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote: Acro darling, kita me up please. I was working on GK. Dieno's basis for finding GK scum was not what I was expecting. I agree that Kita is probably more urgent. Give me a sec. | ||
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On November 19 2012 10:47 kitaman27 wrote: I'd also like to announce that I plan to disappear for extended periods of time (assuming I role mafia) Mission accomplished? | ||
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On November 22 2012 10:58 kitaman27 wrote: I haven't been inactive and acquiring 4-5 votes to take the lead is hardly a long shot. I've hardly been inactive, my posts are just less spread out. Don't infer that I haven't read the thread because that's untrue. I've been working on several posts the past hour or two. As for my opinion of you, I haven't reread your filter yet. From what I recall, your posts have been logical and reasonable, but that hardly means you must be town. Hardly a joke campaign. Hours into the game I provided my initial thoughts, I have been at work all day, and now I have returned to elaborate on my reads after having some posts to go by. I shouldn't be punished based on my schedule. Why have I been eliminated after not having a chance to share my thoughts? I believe I'm a superior candidate to sandroba and syllo. If you remember correctly, sandroba's platform was simply a rehashed version of my proposal that players be selected by their towniness beyond all other factors. Still working on a post of reads. Kita. Why exactly did you think this? This phrase here seems rather incongruous with all the rest of your campaign. You made some slightly disingenious remarks at Sandro about how the whole town thought they could read him, but asking what it was based on. You made a quip at Syllo's second post. About 20 hours later you come back. We get a joke post with a turkey and vegetarians, and then you say you think you're superior to Sandro and Syllo. Yet you never explain why. Even when asked why. On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote: I'd also like to state a bit more setup speculation before I forget about it. From a game design perspective, the mafia team has to have certain tools that sabotage our events in order to remain balanced. Without any outside intervention, assume the town comes up with a successful group of players. There appears to be no restriction about selecting the same players, meaning the mafia team has to have some way to combat selecting the same people every time. Even if they can only eliminate a couple of the players through night hits, they are still playing from a disadvantage. I think this is something we should keep in mind going forward. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion. Finally, the Frog role claim may be the most important event that has taken place this game. There needs to be more discussion about it. I'll post my thoughts later tonight. I either mentioned it earlier, or just wrote it in my notebook, he never incited more discussion about the claim. Now that I look back, I would like an explanation of why Kita thought the Frog claim was so important. Those are my questions for now. @Marv: I have the right to remain silent (for now). | ||
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On November 24 2012 11:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Never forget LI Acro. Never. Why do you mention me? Anyway, what I really want to comment on is Drazerk's role and abilities. I can make no sense of it. Just wandered over to the Dota 2 wiki and Invoker has: Cold Snap Ghost Walk Ice Wall Tornado Deafening Blast Forge Spirit EMP Alacrity Chaos Meteor Sun Strike. First off: I don't see any "Betrayal" and a wiki search doesn't give me anything either. The other abilities claimed are Lightning Shield (not an Invoker ability), Firestorm (ditto), Chaos Meteor. What Chaos Meteor does in Dota 2 is drops a meteor from the sky which does damage and then rolls around a little bit doing more damage if you're dumb enough to stick around. I fail to see how this can be implemented in this game, other than as a simple nuke. So, how about you claim what your abilities do, instead of your Dota 2 analogies, which may make sense to you, but don't to anybody else. | ||
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Also, there doesn't seem to be enough food in CT for this to make sense. | ||
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On November 24 2012 12:07 Hapahauli wrote: Oh come on... you're straight up OMGUS Clarity? I mean the guy is a relatively new player and has an 11 page filter... Having lots of 1-liners is a town tell how? Don't get me wrong. I have no clue about clarity's alignment right now. Last time I read his filter I was null and I have plenty of homework tomorrow. But what the fuck does the length of his filter have to do with it? You want a giant filter? Look at Drazerk in HRM. I believe he reached 25 pages of rhyme. Yes, he was scum. | ||
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Sandro: your last two posts sound like you are wallowing in self-pity and acting like a kicked dog. That does not sound like the self-assured town Sandro who tells people that they are wrong, bad or useless if they disagree. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but my doubt is getting very large. | ||
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I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards. 1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads. 2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either. 2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town. 3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right. 4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game. Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads. Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? | ||
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On November 24 2012 19:55 Oatsmaster wrote: The last thing that I am going to say about TC is that his vote on syllo makes perfect sense with his earlier reasoning that town shouldnt give reads that will help scum. @Sandro, Syllo still took damage last night.. so why are you lying? He claims roleblocked. So obviously his ability didn't go through. I'm more interested in "Shadow". People with shadow magic in the game are Robo, Magus and lots of bad guys. Robo is unlikely to have an ability called Shadow. Magus doesn't seem like town, could be 3P. The rest are all likely scum or 3P. However, Sandro seems well versed in Chrono Trigger lore and would know this if he was actually scum... and would refrain from mentioning this. A conundrum. @Syllo, Hopefully the canine will be fine. :D I share this wish. | ||
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On November 24 2012 20:57 marvellosity wrote: I've not seen any reasoning from you on why kita (or anyone else for that matter). What gives? You're not pushing anyone. Probably you only have to convince syllo, but this influential punter wants to know why you're not pushing your reads either? Is not pushing reads a scumtell? Especially if so blatantly obvious about it? Regarding Prome's interactions with me: I'm ok backing up Prome on this aspect of his play. As the target I didn't feel anything unnatural about it. I tend to have quite specific and different interactions with people. I saw iamp mentioned, and I agree with keir/hapa. Was a townread early but waning. Regarding my own play - I seem more interested on a lynch day than some party leader n stuff day? Go figure if that makes sense from what you know about me as a mafia (the game) player. Today I need to research kita quite a bit to see if I'm being unfair with the standards I'm holding him to. I can't really get over right now how he said he supported a sandroba lynch (as if he always had) but had never mentioned it before and has never mentioned it again. syllogism's assertion that kita goes after easy targets hasn't helped. I agree. Today, I want to figure out Kita, GK and Prom. I also feel that I am starting to figure out Chronicler, which will allow me to go over his filter again and see if it makes sense as town. On TheChronicler - just totally uninterested. I still don't really think he's scum and it's all a bit tedious. From the way the game has progressed I get the impression that sandroba and kitaman aren't both town. And there are reasons for both to be scum. Now to find out which is the best lynch. I am more cautious. I honestly feel that Toad could also have been the scum in the running. I haven't analyzed his play yet, but Sandro is giving answers that feel right. As stated before, his absense of caring can be explained by him simply going afk at the wrong time. His failure to give constructed reads seems fairly in line with what I know about him in the thread. Syllo seems to be trying to read Sandro as if they are skyping each other, which is simply not the case here. I feel Sandro is not playing any different from the town games I have seen him in, except for a noted drop off in activity. I also think his claim of using "shadow" is indicative of a townie use, but he might be bamboozling us. I realized before he replied that his self-pity could be explained as a townie who is quite unused to getting mislynched feeling himself powerless to convince people (or Syllo) that he's town. Additionally I am a bit suspicious of the way the Sandro wagon formed. It is basically one giant sheep of Syllo, which is way too easy for scum to just hop on with no-to-little reasoning. While I realize this would happen regardless of Sandro's alignment (based only off what Syllo thinks), it doesn't mean I like it. | ||
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On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: You other point is bullshit. I had a townread on sandroba. Acrofales didn't have townreads on his three candidates. He just wanted to send them because they were good players and for that reason. What the hell? We were like 3 posts into the game. How was I supposed to have a town read on anybody? It was a conversation starter and it worked. | ||
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On November 24 2012 21:44 marvellosity wrote: if i ask myself what town sand and scum sand would be doing in this situation, yeah, it's a scumtell. I understand far less why town sandroba isn't pushing anyone. Are you pushing anyone? You're pressuring people, but I don't get the opinion that you have made up your mind on anybody you think is scum. You are not pushing your reads much either. Is that a scumtell for you? How about Kita? Toad? Why single Sandroba out of the veterans who are not currently pushing their scum reads? | ||
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On November 24 2012 21:52 syllogism wrote: Stop distorting the case against him Acro. I seem to be trying to read sandro as if I'm skyping with him? That's completely nonsensical. You don't feel sandro is not playing any different? How about the fact he has done or said nothing useful at all whole game long. Not a single read; just throwing a name out there with no reasoning is not a read. Failure to construct reads is fairly in line with what? Is the sandro you know completely useless? The little time he has devoted to the game has centered around him defending himself rather than doing something actually useful. Despite the amount of seeming effort you are putting into the game, your defense of Sandro is starting to feel quite suspicious. You were IN GoT mafia with him. Sure, I was scum that game, but my criticism against you was truthful. You were throwing names out there and seeing what came back. While I expect you would've figured Chaoser out, and it was too much of a risk to let you live, your D1 was atrocious. HRM you only got going quite late on D2 and it was mostly you pulling that wagon. Sandro keeping his reads close and scumhunting based on reading the thread and throwing a name out from time to time is not contrary to his town play at all. My impression of his scumhunting has always been that he gauges the mindset behind reactions in the game... and if other people are doing plenty to cause people to react, then he doesn't have to do much himself. Am I certain he's town? No. I just don't like the way this witch hunt is going. Also, your association case is pathetic. | ||
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On November 24 2012 21:54 marvellosity wrote: what do you make of sand's point about his party selection? That is the one point I think is weak, lol. If scum is able to take 3 townies along and still fail the mission, then his party selection is neither here nor there. The more I think about it, the harder it seems for a scum party leader to play the party leader role correctly. If Sandro is scum and takes 3 incredibly townie people along, yet fails the mission, he is scum through a process of elimination. If Sandro is scum and takes a shady character along, he is scum for bringing his scumbuddy along, because town Sandro should know better. Either way, having someone known for his accurate reads lead a failed party is a recipe for disaster for scum (assuming town has ways of killing scum). | ||
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On November 24 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote: Don't be dense, I've been pursuing kita for some time now even if I haven't made a formal case/vote. Yeah. You've been pressuring him. I have not gotten the feeling ever that you have made up your mind yet. That's okay, I haven't made up my mind yet either. But calling Sandroba out for not having made up his mind and pushing his read is hypocritical. I do find his lack of thread presence disconcerting. In all games I have played with him, his thread presence (or PM presence in SSM) has been commanding. However, RL issues are a good reason for lack of thread presence. | ||
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On November 24 2012 22:09 Djodref wrote: @Acro I think we are going to get ways of killing scum after successful event. Like the fact that today is a "lynch event day" is a reward for us to have succeed in the last event. I would have expected a different event (mafia favored event) if we had failed. But that's just speculation. I think that one scum on the party doesn't automatically cause the failure of the event. There are hidden factors after all. Frog (aka Dieno) being on the event could have allowed one mafia player to come along imo. I agree with your first point. It is quite likely that if the event had failed, we would not have gotten the lynch day. However, I see no reason why scum would know how this game works any more than we did. I also assume that town has a fair amount of KP to allow for some town-controlled flips. I therefore think my logic makes a lot of sense. The second part is speculation. Plausible speculation (I came up with it after all), but still speculation. We have no clue how the hidden influence works, and the game HAS to be balanced somehow to allow scum to win events. Assuming a 3-1 ratio fails an event seems okay for now. Especially as scum presumably also does not know how the influence works and thus they cannot gamble on Sandro bringing along Frog (pretty much confirmed town imho) and gambling that the event succeeds due to his high influence factor, because they simply don't know. | ||
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On November 24 2012 22:14 Oatsmaster wrote: There is only a certain amount of time until IRL issues just dont cut it. The difference is that Sandro could very well be lynched while marv basically cant be lynched this cycle. Marv can do his pushing and prodding a lot more subtly while Sandro has to get himself out of a lynch Agreed. For some of you that point has been reached. I am seeing some logical inconsistencies with him being scum. They tell me to give him more time and look for people I am more convinced are scum. If, of course, he doesn't shape up, then we can kill him later. My having that read on him, makes me naturally suspicious of how this wagon is forming in the first place. It is one giant sheep. The only two people who have tried to give their own justification are Clarity, whose case is pathetic, and Adam. The rest are riddled with inconsistencies and lack of reasoning: Risk.nuke: I know he's been called out for it already, but his explanation is terrible. On November 23 2012 19:32 risk.nuke wrote: Good job syllogism! Here is something I love, an independent thinking man. Moving on, I'm really wondering where sandroba have gone. I'm leaning I want to lynch him but I'm going to at least park my vote on him untill he comes back. ##Vote: sandroba Later explained: pressure vote. It has not been reevaluated and I have no clue why risk thinks Sandro is scum. Oatsmaster: while I have no reason to question his alignment yet (having been included in a successful party), his vote comes down to a combination of "one of Sandro/Syllo must be scum" (I don't believe that is true at all) and "beeehhhhhhh". Here is his vote post: On November 23 2012 09:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah Sand is looking extremely suspicious at this point.. Vote: Sandro /sheeple. GK: 180 degrees flip from Sandro is town to Sandro is scum the second he read Syllo's post. 100% suspicious vote from someone I have my concerns about in any case. SnB: parked vote, went on holiday. Not going to bother with this right now, because regardless of where he had voted this would feel like a cop-out. Clarity to me, at the moment, feels more like town making a bad case than scum making up a bullshit case to jump on the syllo sheep. Adam I am not so sure about, although I feel his case has some merit, it is 100% meta from a game I didn't play in. Meta interpretation where only one game is used as comparison is very easy to make or fake. | ||
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On November 24 2012 22:26 syllogism wrote: There is no reason to assume mafia doesn't know more about how many people they need to cause an event to fail. The main purpose why mechanics are hidden is so that we don't confirm 4 townies any time a mission succeeds. Also reading sandro's filter it doesn't even look like he announced what his final team would be. At one point he said oats, kush and dienosore, but if he is mafia he probably knew that kush was going to die. In addition, when he named that team, I don't think he thought he was going to win. Moreover, he was locked down to dienosore+oats very early on, before dienosore claimed. If I understand that correctly, then you are making the assumption that scum could use the fact that Frog is in the party reliably to get "confirmed" status by allowing the event to succeed. That seems like info scum could not possibly have. As for the second part of your post: what is your point? Sandro would pull a quick party switch and take someone incredibly scummy along? I think everybody who read Kush's post properly assumed he would die, what does being mafia have to do with it? I am confused why you are harping on the party composition. | ||
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However, I don't think I have any reason to believe that this is what he tried to achieve. Sandro: why am I the one doing your dirty work? | ||
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However, his D2 behaviour is really bugging me. He was adamant about townhunting D1, yet did not really do much of it. His reason for not wanting to scumhunt is that there was no lynch. D2 has a lynch, yet the sum total of his "scumhunting" is parking his vote on Sandro in a full acknowledgement of sheeping Syllo: On November 23 2012 18:47 goodkarma wrote: I am entirely opposed to troll(CaveJohnson) hunting at present. I am not as confident as some seem to be that, based off his current anti-town dialogue, he has demonstrated he in fact is mafia. On the other hand, if Sandroba's meta (as stated by others here) is to be believed, he is a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today. He has gone into hardcore lurker mode, which normally is something I wouldn't consider a tell. However, as a player of his reputation that plays so well as town to disappear as he has, I deem voting to lynch him appropriate. I would like to hear what he has to say to explain his current complete lack of caring since very early this game. And until he does: ##Vote: Sandroba I am just having a really hard time deciding if this is lazy town or content scum :S The meta-analysis was extensive, but ultimately unproductive. When I first read through GK's filter I thought I saw a very cautious, constructed use of language. However, upon reading him in NMMXXIV I get the same feeling there: it is just his way of speaking. His playstyle there is not the same as here. He seems far more involved. However, his playstyle is also not like in LVII, where he seemed completely uninclined to want to figure anything out, whereas on D1 I at least got the feeling he was interested in the game. As for Dieno's case: [spoiler] On November 24 2012 05:42 Dienosore wrote: Ok here are the results of my investigation on GF. I believe him to be a leading candidate for the gallows: Mistake No. 1 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote: The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that... I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. These all happened early and seem to come from a scumbag's perspective. While one post wouldn't necessarily indicate mafia, I became suspicious when they began to stack up quickly Mistake No. 2 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Nice to play with you again Toadesstern . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel as if blah blah blah... Here he completely glosses over Toad's accusation of Keirathi, indirectly saying to me that he supported the idea of a scum Keirathi. Well, it turned out Keirathi was in the group when we succeeded, so...? Mistake No. 3: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. So he picked Oats for the obvious towny to gain people's trust, Djo who has always been suspicious to me, and Sandro who has recently come under heavy fire as a scumbag. Not very solid picks IMO. Also, why attack me at the end of it? He doesn't directly call me scum, but it seems as if he is trying to plant some seeds of doubt at least. He ends up switching his party no much later to Djo/Phagga/Dien. Why so flip floppy, I ask? He later revealed that I made the cut solely because of my roleclaim. Mistake No. 4 + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 01:19 goodkarma wrote: I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa He seems overly relieved to finally have someone call him town. Even threw in a cute little heart there too. My gut says he started off very scummy, then toned it down a bit after he decided to drop his campaign and try to blend in. He is definitely top 3 on my Mafiadar. My next target: Sandroba 1. I agree that I don't like his focus on townhunting, but lets be honest here: what use does mafia have to townhunt, except that they can probably hide it more easily? They already know who is town. Null tell. 2. Being wrong is not a scumtell. 3. Party picks are indeed one of the mysteries, but I don't see his party as scum motivated. More as if he is not very good at getting his motivation and town reads straight. I still have more problems with Phagga than anybody else he picked, though. I don't get how he suddenly picked Phagga out of the blue. 4. Null. I am actually of the reverse opinion: he started out okay and got scummier over time. The reason I asked for Dieno's reads was because I stumbled over GK's use of language. Dieno apparently didn't, which was what surprised me a bit in his case. However, the meta explains his language quite a bit. One last thing: On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote: I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven. I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. The bolded statement feels INCREDIBLY forced. As if he is intentionally playing down Sandro's skill at playing scum to make it fit in with his case. Given that everybody and their brother is looking at Sandro to push his reads, don't you think a scum Sandro would have done so by now? [/QUOTE] | ||
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Okay. I have been going over GK's filter for quite a bit now and I am really drawing a null read on him. His D1 play seems quite fine. He is not doing anything particularly out of the ordinary. He is not really sticking his neck out (the campaign was not exactly risky) and his explanations of the behaviour I did not understand seem adequate. However, his D2 behaviour is really bugging me. He was adamant about townhunting D1, yet did not really do much of it. His reason for not wanting to scumhunt is that there was no lynch. D2 has a lynch, yet the sum total of his "scumhunting" is parking his vote on Sandro in a full acknowledgement of sheeping Syllo: On November 23 2012 18:47 goodkarma wrote: I am entirely opposed to troll(CaveJohnson) hunting at present. I am not as confident as some seem to be that, based off his current anti-town dialogue, he has demonstrated he in fact is mafia. On the other hand, if Sandroba's meta (as stated by others here) is to be believed, he is a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today. He has gone into hardcore lurker mode, which normally is something I wouldn't consider a tell. However, as a player of his reputation that plays so well as town to disappear as he has, I deem voting to lynch him appropriate. I would like to hear what he has to say to explain his current complete lack of caring since very early this game. And until he does: ##Vote: Sandroba I am just having a really hard time deciding if this is lazy town or content scum :S The meta-analysis was extensive, but ultimately unproductive. When I first read through GK's filter I thought I saw a very cautious, constructed use of language. However, upon reading him in NMMXXIV I get the same feeling there: it is just his way of speaking. His playstyle there is not the same as here. He seems far more involved. However, his playstyle is also not like in LVII, where he seemed completely uninclined to want to figure anything out, whereas on D1 I at least got the feeling he was interested in the game. As for Dieno's case: + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 05:42 Dienosore wrote: Ok here are the results of my investigation on GF. I believe him to be a leading candidate for the gallows: Mistake No. 1 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote: The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that... I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. These all happened early and seem to come from a scumbag's perspective. While one post wouldn't necessarily indicate mafia, I became suspicious when they began to stack up quickly Mistake No. 2 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Nice to play with you again Toadesstern . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel as if blah blah blah... Here he completely glosses over Toad's accusation of Keirathi, indirectly saying to me that he supported the idea of a scum Keirathi. Well, it turned out Keirathi was in the group when we succeeded, so...? Mistake No. 3: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. So he picked Oats for the obvious towny to gain people's trust, Djo who has always been suspicious to me, and Sandro who has recently come under heavy fire as a scumbag. Not very solid picks IMO. Also, why attack me at the end of it? He doesn't directly call me scum, but it seems as if he is trying to plant some seeds of doubt at least. He ends up switching his party no much later to Djo/Phagga/Dien. Why so flip floppy, I ask? He later revealed that I made the cut solely because of my roleclaim. Mistake No. 4 + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 01:19 goodkarma wrote: I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa He seems overly relieved to finally have someone call him town. Even threw in a cute little heart there too. My gut says he started off very scummy, then toned it down a bit after he decided to drop his campaign and try to blend in. He is definitely top 3 on my Mafiadar. My next target: Sandroba 1. I agree that I don't like his focus on townhunting, but lets be honest here: what use does mafia have to townhunt, except that they can probably hide it more easily? They already know who is town. Null tell. 2. Being wrong is not a scumtell. 3. Party picks are indeed one of the mysteries, but I don't see his party as scum motivated. More as if he is not very good at getting his motivation and town reads straight. I still have more problems with Phagga than anybody else he picked, though. I don't get how he suddenly picked Phagga out of the blue. 4. Null. I am actually of the reverse opinion: he started out okay and got scummier over time. The reason I asked for Dieno's reads was because I stumbled over GK's use of language. Dieno apparently didn't, which was what surprised me a bit in his case. However, the meta explains his language quite a bit. One last thing: On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote: I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven. I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. The bolded statement feels INCREDIBLY forced. As if he is intentionally playing down Sandro's skill at playing scum to make it fit in with his case. Given that everybody and their brother is looking at Sandro to push his reads, don't you think a scum Sandro would have done so by now? | ||
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On November 25 2012 00:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro, lets ignore that it is Sandro we are talking about. Would a mafia player that is under heavy suspicion from sheeping votes but no clear case push reads? or wait for a clear case on another player, which is kita or Cave Johnson at this this point and push that case hard? Either, or, both. Depends on who we're talking about. There is no fixed recipe for getting out from under suspicion as either alignment... frankly your question is nonsense. You explain your actions, your reasoning and get on with playing the game. Everybody else just has to make sense of it. | ||
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Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. Other than that I am unsurprised about Kita running. His stance on Sandroba seems sensible, and he voiced many of the suspicions I have of risk.nuke. | ||
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On November 24 2012 12:26 kitaman27 wrote: The thing that bothers me the most about sandroba is that he has to be aware of the town's perception of his mafia reputation. I'm sympathetic to the fact that real life events can sometimes get in the way, but if they do, I try to make it clear to the thread and use any free time to make up for it. From my experience, not having a scum candidate is a sub-par strategy. I'm not completely sold on syllo's innocence yet. It is quite possible that toad's presence in the party would override any mafia presence, although I liked his party selection and the success of the first event gives me no reason to go after syllo at the moment. sandroba's party selection was solid, even though we don't know if it would have mattered with his presence. What puzzles me the most is that sandroba claims to have taken a hit of 125 damage. If its town damage, it should be claimed. From a mafia perspective, I'd want to take out Frog in one hit to not have to worry about a cleared pro-town presence on day two, in addition to an additional round of night actions, and possible healing effects. Spreading out the damage seems suboptimal. Based on the flip, it seems the mafia would know that 400ish damage wouldn't be enough to take him out. Why would they hit sandroba, someone who has fallen out of favor in town's eyes, over syllo? Perhaps they were banking on a failed event one, but even so, I'd hit syllo over sandro if I'm not going to stack everything on a single player. I'll have to come back to this as there are a few other players I'd like to look at first before making a final decision. To me this reads "I am on the fence". Given that I feel quite similar, except that I lean towards not lynching rather than lynching, that resonates. However upon rereading, I really don't like how he hammers on casting doubt on Syllo. Being cautious is all very well, but why bring it up repeatedly? Both Syllo's filter and his successful party give me no reason to doubt him. Repeatedly voicing suspicions serves no town purpose that I see. However, upon rereading this a few times I can see how you see this as completely void of any content. I am probably getting tired. I'll leave off reading Prom for now and go eat, do some other stuff before coming back and trying to figure out Prom and Toad. | ||
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On November 25 2012 00:34 marvellosity wrote: Don't you think a town sandro would too? Yes. That means it is not indicative of alignment and thus implying that it is, is FORCED. | ||
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On November 25 2012 02:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Can someone other than marv confirm that Drazerk would be a coinflip at the point? I believe I have said so repeatedly. Toad has said so too. Take one look at his profile and you would see it is so. | ||
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On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote: Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. | ||
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On November 25 2012 03:16 Toadesstern wrote: Acro sweetie do me a favor and vote me or I'll do stupid things. You're still on my list of players to filter before the day is done. You and Prom. At the moment I'm still happy with my vote on Chronicler. Why you think Chronicler is town? | ||
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On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote: How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it. I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Toad vs. Marvel] + On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote: Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. On November 24 2012 23:19 marvellosity wrote: I didn't want to go there, because it didn't seem worth it, but you've been straight out lying about LV all game. Mainly to make yourself look better. You excuse yourself in LV for inviting me into your mason chat as either "you were trolling" or there were 2 kenpachi-like people left to invite. This is simple false. You invited me BEFORE confirmed town EchelonTee, because I appeared so town to you, and BEFORE extremely townie newbie austinmcc. You invited me because your read on me was wrong and you thought it was the useful thing to do. Given I replaced in night 1 LV, and pushed a scum straight away who got modkilled, I was viewed as town from very early and that remained the case throughout the game. So saying "I wasn't so much involved early on" is once again a flat out lie. Just to dig the boot in, mafia (me/wiggles) left you alive that game, despite you were confirmed town, for many many cycles because you were so completely and utterly useless. Stop referring to games where you've managed to talk yourself into having a really rosy view of the outcome when in reality your read on me was 100% wrong and you got completely outplayed, and left alive by scum for being an irrelevance. And stop lying about it now. I giggled. If you misrepresented your ability to read people, I am confused why you wanted to be party leader. | ||
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On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote: I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I got a bit sidetracked by Marv contesting Toad's play, but we're back on it. Toad can come up with no reason why he should run for party leader, so invents that "he will be active and get people to talk". I ask you, what does that have to do with being the party leader? About as much as Syllo being vegetarian, that's what. So why does Toad want to be the party leader? Why? Because he's scum, of course. Toad jumps into the thread with a big splash. Big talk about how he's going to scumhunt and a blurb on how Keirathi is scum for pretty much no reason at all. Now, lets look for the actual scumhunting: . . . Yeah, that was it. Lets use Toad's own words to emphasize this: On November 21 2012 18:11 Toadesstern wrote: A guy trying to contribute something while being useless is a mafiatreat, that's why I mentioned you. Scum are trying to look like they're doing something without actually doing something all the time. I couldn't have voiced your behaviour this game better myself! Rather than scumhunting we get an unjustified vote on Sandroba, but not immediately. No. First you SAY we should lynch Sandroba without giving any reasons for it. It's only about 30 hours later, when the wagon has properly left the station that you come back to vote. Still without a justification. And that is the SUM TOTAL of what Toad has done that even remotely approaches something that is not setup speculation, talking about himself or meaningless banter. Until this, about 80 hours after the opening post telling everybody he'll be open, chatty and scumhunting: + Show Spoiler [Toad's scumhunting conclusions] + On November 25 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote: Okay done reading. Marv looks definitely better d2 so I'll ignore him for now. Sandroba looks the same way he did d2 so I still think he's the best way to go, not to mention that it's not that much time left. So much for the changes for d1 to d2. Drazerk looks like a madmen, like you guys said and well it's Drazerk.... Those people get shot and not lynched, it's as simple as that. A lynch on Drazerk is a (imo) random lynch as he could be doing that from both points of view and I don't have an idea what's going on in his head. Additionally I'd say that's probably not going to change that soon, which is why I'd say we let vigs deal with him, both to get rid of him and to make sure we don't have a Drazerk lynch that gives us 0 information while flipping like a dice role. The bad thing about lynching Drazerk is that anyone and their mom can hop on that lynch and say "herpa derp it's Drazerk, let's lynch him beacuse he's anti-town" and after the lynch we're in complete chaos because he either flipped red and everyone's pissed at those who thought he shouldn't be lynched because he's always like that or he's going to flip his chef / invoker thingie and people we don't get anything out of it because he was doing bullshit after all. TL; dr: Don't lynch that guy, shoot him. Completly ignore him in all other regards. Other than that I don't really like Chroniclers fashion of going after people. Can't help but feel that he thinks he needs to emphasize and point out very obvious things a lot. Could be me omgusing though, so I'd rather have some input from someone else about that. I didn't. On the start of d2 I said I'd like to vote for Sandro, maybe marv, went to the trainstation and was basicly afk for 24 hours. Now I'm back and gave a heads up on my current thoughts. I usually don't feel the need to copy&paste what I said earlier if nothing changed but I can do that from now on if it you makes you feel better :p I actually haven't understood your map yet, like Marv said I've been mainly mentioning Sand and him d1&d2 so far, maybe Keir a little d1 but I think I made it very clear that that was on purpose to get something going and I don't see arrows between Marv and me. But than again who knows what arrow belongs to what person Summary: null on Marv, troll on Drazerk and no clue what he thinks about Chronicler. Still nothing on why Sandro is scum, other than that he had a vague town meta read on him until Syllo shut that down. The sum total of Toad's contributions to this thread have been zip diddly squat, but he is here and posting. Quite a lot in fact. This is NOT the Toad I know as either town or scum, but I can't see any town motivation for playing this way. There are some other small things in his filter, but the promise that he will spend the game scumhunting and then the absolute lack of it, despite 5 pages of filter, is, once again in Toad's own words: Scum are trying to look like they're doing something without actually doing something all the time. Thank you for describing your own gameplan so clearly! ##unvote ##vote Toadesstern | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:35 marvellosity wrote: I'll put it another way. If your only ability is a 1-shot 50HP shot, that would be a complete load of bullcrap :p Agreed. | ||
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@both: yes, I would absolutely lynch Toad over either Kita or Sandro. 4 hours is plenty of time. My thoughts on both Kita and Sandroba are in my filter. I am not feeling the scum on either of them. I am feeling it in spades on Toad. | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:59 goodkarma wrote: But hasn't sandra been just as worthless? I'll have to re-read your filter but it doesn't quite add up to me why toad would so much more definitely be scum than sandroba on that basis. Sandro upped and left. He is not here (or faking not being here). Sure, that is damning, because it's sandroba, but on exactly the same basis we could be lynching SnB, hopeless1der, Promethelax, VE, Adam or iamperfection. Yes, we hold Sandroba to a higher standard... and Syllo has a meta-based scumread on him. However, I am not comfortable sheeping Syllo. If he's wrong, we're screwed and have absolutely nothing useful. Toad, on the other hand has been here. He has been posting, quite actively at times. Yet, he has DONE jack shit. That is far more damning than going afk imho. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote: I'll read his filter a bit closer, one of his latest posts I like quite a bit, it's still not scumhunting though, I admit: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote: Okay done reading. Marv looks definitely better d2 so I'll ignore him for now. Sandroba looks the same way he did d2 so I still think he's the best way to go, not to mention that it's not that much time left. So much for the changes for d1 to d2. Drazerk looks like a madmen, like you guys said and well it's Drazerk.... Those people get shot and not lynched, it's as simple as that. A lynch on Drazerk is a (imo) random lynch as he could be doing that from both points of view and I don't have an idea what's going on in his head. Additionally I'd say that's probably not going to change that soon, which is why I'd say we let vigs deal with him, both to get rid of him and to make sure we don't have a Drazerk lynch that gives us 0 information while flipping like a dice role. The bad thing about lynching Drazerk is that anyone and their mom can hop on that lynch and say "herpa derp it's Drazerk, let's lynch him beacuse he's anti-town" and after the lynch we're in complete chaos because he either flipped red and everyone's pissed at those who thought he shouldn't be lynched because he's always like that or he's going to flip his chef / invoker thingie and people we don't get anything out of it because he was doing bullshit after all. TL; dr: Don't lynch that guy, shoot him. Completly ignore him in all other regards. Other than that I don't really like Chroniclers fashion of going after people. Can't help but feel that he thinks he needs to emphasize and point out very obvious things a lot. Could be me omgusing though, so I'd rather have some input from someone else about that. I didn't. On the start of d2 I said I'd like to vote for Sandro, maybe marv, went to the trainstation and was basicly afk for 24 hours. Now I'm back and gave a heads up on my current thoughts. I usually don't feel the need to copy&paste what I said earlier if nothing changed but I can do that from now on if it you makes you feel better :p I actually haven't understood your map yet, like Marv said I've been mainly mentioning Sand and him d1&d2 so far, maybe Keir a little d1 but I think I made it very clear that that was on purpose to get something going and I don't see arrows between Marv and me. But than again who knows what arrow belongs to what person Why do you like that? It's actually a terrible post. He says he's null on marv, troll on drazerk and gives some waffling account of that he wants other people to tell him what to think of chronicler. He calls Dienosore useless (or unintelligible at best). Way to be COMPLETELY noncommittal. What is there to like in that post? What I am still missing is an explanation for why he voted Sandro. On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote: nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked. This, and the fact that he thinks there is a scum in Syllo+Sandro, are the only reasons he gives for wanting to lynch Sandro. If Sandro flips town, it is impossible to peg Toad to this lynch. | ||
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I did. And I ignored it for being useless. As should you. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:21 Djodref wrote: Didn't Toad just say that he was playing like this on purpose ? He needed someone to vote him. I think that's why he kept asking Acro for a vote. Does it seem reasonable for anyone ? Why didn't he claim then ? Toad is AWOL by the way... Did you read my case? Do you agree? Disagree? Toad's vote for Kita without reasoning was on purpose (and that's what that exchange with Marv and me was about). For whatever strange reason. I guess that could be construed as an attempt at trapping someone, and thus as scumhunting, but I am unsure that was actually what he was trying to achieve. Maybe Marv got something else from that exchange. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:28 goodkarma wrote: So if we sheep you instead and vote for Toad, for reasons similar to why people are voting Sandro, how does that make us better off? If Toad flips town, isn't it the same kind of scenario? Or is it that sandro seems to have massive support, and that it must be mafia-influenced? With as little as Sandro has tried to establish himself as town this game, if he is scum I would fully expect his team would bus him, especially with Syllo on his lynch bandwagon. I'm not telling you to sheep me, although I guess I would be honored. I am asking you to read my case, read Toad's filter and make up your own mind. I have voiced my opinion. I will try to sway the general public with lots of armwaving and explaining why Toad is scum, but in the end it's YOU who has to make up your mind. So. Why do YOU think Sandro is scum. Fairly certain you're one of those people who is sheeping Syllo for no apparent reason other than Syllo says, so it must be so. | ||
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On November 23 2012 18:47 goodkarma wrote: I am entirely opposed to troll(CaveJohnson) hunting at present. I am not as confident as some seem to be that, based off his current anti-town dialogue, he has demonstrated he in fact is mafia. On the other hand, if Sandroba's meta (as stated by others here) is to be believed, he is a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today. He has gone into hardcore lurker mode, which normally is something I wouldn't consider a tell. However, as a player of his reputation that plays so well as town to disappear as he has, I deem voting to lynch him appropriate. I would like to hear what he has to say to explain his current complete lack of caring since very early this game. And until he does: ##Vote: Sandroba | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:39 kitaman27 wrote: Voting sandroba for now. 24 hours of inactivity is reasonable. 72 hours isn't. I suggest a full role claim from him upon his return. Still quite annoyed that prom hasn't showed up. I am so far not seeing the scum in Prom. However, I am not seeing the town in Prom either, and that alone is causing me to be very cautious with him. His absence after that claim, though, bugs me too. What do you think of Toad? | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:41 Clarity_nl wrote: Although I realize that if Sandro is scum he would be bussed by his teammates, that fact that there has been ZERO defense of him other than people calling the wagon stupid makes me very paranoid. Why you disregard my defense of him? | ||
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However, Toad is scum. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:52 CaveJohnson wrote: Is toad a reverse fool? also Hi sorry for my absence. Where were you? Also, I asked questions about your claim. Kita asked questions about your claim. I think there's a general consensus that it's bollocks. Unsurprising. You need a new approach to shocking town. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:50 Clarity_nl wrote: I already addressed this. There are two motivations for scum to run for election. 1) Run to win and make town fail the mission. 2) Convenient excuse to not scumhunt, just drop out later. Those excuses work for pretty much everybody except Sandro or Syllo. When you have a high profile like that, you cannot graciously drop out, as we saw yesterday. I am inclined to believe Sandro when he says RL got in the way. However, RL is not town or scum. His subsequent behaviour has not made sense. But Toad is scummier. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:59 Clarity_nl wrote: You're the second to mention a modkill on Sandro. Did I miss something? He hasn't voted. | ||
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On November 25 2012 06:06 CaveJohnson wrote: Probably do it closer to the deadline. Which ever wagon I join will be hampered just by my presence. Yadda yadda yadda. Kita claims he shot you and you took less damage than you should have, yet he took none. Which one of you is lying? | ||
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On November 25 2012 06:18 marvellosity wrote: that he's useless and uncharacteristically quiet for either alignment. Do you find that indicative of alignment? | ||
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Drazerk just claimed scum. | ||
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When you are scum you whine about how you will be shot by scum for having whatever outrageous role you claim (HRM springs to mind immediately). Town I have not seen you do this ever. | ||
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On November 25 2012 07:42 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I'm saying I'll be killed by town not scum etc this time. I look forward to it. Unfortunately I won't be the one pulling the trigger | ||
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On November 25 2012 07:46 CaveJohnson wrote: They was drawing heat since they knew my identity due to my posting style. Better the life of 2 than 1 We were? Why was I not informed? You leaking info from your QT? | ||
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On November 25 2012 07:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro, do you think that there are mafia on the Toad wagon? Your case is ok, but I would like to see some defense from Toad and since that is not happening, I dont feel comfortable with a Toad lynch today There are people I have not filtered in detail this cycle on the Toad lynch. Do I have any immediate concerns about Clarity or Zbo? No. | ||
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##vote Keirathi However much I think Dieno is confirmed town I have no confidence in his ability to pick other town. Oatsmaster is also dubious, so that leaves Keir. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:34 Oatsmaster wrote: Chronicler. Hmm is there a scum reason for doing this? YES THERE IS. Toad was under pressure last cycle, chronicler was also under pressure. So fake a 'dt' check and BAM TOAD IS SCUM There is no doubt in my mind that the man is telling the truth. Lay off him. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:44 Promethelax wrote: Yeah I was bluffing but I thought it was a safe bet. There were only two roleblocks and it seemed inconceivable that no one targeted the leader of the town party besides me. So I took a gamble, i knew my credibility was pretty low but I knew my role could make or break this lynch (theoretically) so I challenged Sand on it. I was pretty shocked about the damage which Syllo claimed (I thought I would block it all and that mafia would have individual abilities and NOT factional kp but this is false, mafia has kp!) and I assumed that it was Mafia KP (another reason which I didn't state earlier that i thought he was Town in the 'one of Sand/Syllo is scum' argument). I looked at my pm again in writing this to confirm my abilities, it only roleblocks players so I imagine that factional kp is not blocked. What is so hard to understand? Syllo got BUSSED. All the abilities that targeted him, targeted someone else instead and everything that targeted that someone else targeted Syllo. Scum shoots flying-under-the-radar-town. Sandro busses all damage from that townie onto Syllo and all the protection (just Marv) on Syllo onto the flying-under-the-radar-town. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:26 Oatsmaster wrote: I would take Acro, Marv, Clarity. I dont think that scum Acro would soft defend Sandro because there is no upside for scum Marv is looking more and more townie at the moment. Clarity also started actually doing 'work' after I made my 'case' on him. I don't want to come. Swap me out for Dieno or Syllo... given the new information, I also prefer Chronicler over Clarity. I can see no reason for scum to bus Toad right now. | ||
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On November 25 2012 11:23 Promethelax wrote: and you really didn't want to be party leader d1. Explain. No. | ||
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On November 25 2012 11:29 Keirathi wrote: Because your claim doesn't make sense. Remember this? Now you're trying to portray that you being in a party could cause us to lose the event somehow. I didn't say you didn't WANT any more information, just that you don't NEED any more information. My goal right now is to get this mission over successfully. It is safer if you don't take me. | ||
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On November 25 2012 11:41 Hapahauli wrote: Well you seemed to come up with this idea out of thin air, so either I missed something in Greymists filter or you made that comment having either a) extra knowledge that town wouldn't know or b) a bad assumption. Either way, I want to know. Eh, that idea was bouncing around all day. Not sure who mentioned it first. GK states it with a weird amount of certainty, but the idea wasn't new. | ||
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On November 25 2012 11:42 Dienosore wrote: Ribbit! I intend to run against you for leader, but it will be a friendly race. I can promise you'll have a spot with me too, so no fear my friend. Why do you feel more confident in taking Oats than in Syllo? | ||
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On November 25 2012 12:01 Hopeless1der wrote: Hey Tooaaaadddd...Can i haz ur heal? I'll give this vote I found. Look! ##Unvote: Oatsmaster ##Vote Toadesstern You're an idiot. He's lying. | ||
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On November 25 2012 12:57 Toadesstern wrote: except for the part where I take 500 fucking damage if I don't get a vote on me every cycle... Yeah yeah. Pull the other one, it has bells on it! | ||
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On November 25 2012 11:53 Toadesstern wrote: oh and obviously asking people yesterday about voting me please (I think I asked chronicler & acro) was as well because I still needed the one vote to dodge the 500dmg. Oh and I'll run for leader, vote me please :3 So... you took 500 damage D1 then? | ||
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On November 25 2012 13:17 Toadesstern wrote: nope. someone voted me. I'm redistributing HP a little +EV. I'm hitting people who aren't going to be protected above anything else. I even hit myself n1 to get that charge. Probably (?) would not have gotten the charge had I targeted Sandro because he was lynched. Zzzz, I'm tired of your lies. I have a 1-shot role+alignment check. Used it on you last night. You're Queen Zeal | ||
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Okay, lets entertain the hypnotoad for a little bit, because I'm bored. You are hereby claiming that either TheChronicler and I are both scum and lying, or you were bussed/framed/whatever two nights in a row. I can understand N2, because I was ramping up the heat on you, but N1 as well? Lol. The other thing wrong with your claim is that there were no votes on you D1. At some point Oats voted for you, but at the end of the day there was nobody voting for you... unless you're saying you have a secret doublevoting scumbuddy of course. | ||
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You believe him? | ||
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##unvote ##vote Oatsmaster | ||
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If you cannot in detail, can you tell us whether bus driver resolves before any other abilities on its targets? | ||
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Are people who do not perform an action notified of being roleblocked? If you have already performed your action for the cycle, but are subsequently roleblocked, are you notified? | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:06 Djodref wrote: Yes, I suspect that the damage taken by CJ (town or mafia or another 3rd party damage) was meant to be directed to syllo. CJ was going to attract the most of town-related KP imo, and mafia should have known this too... What do you think ? I have no idea how much the factional KP should be. Why CJ? What does CJ have to do with anything here? I'm confused why you bring him into this, and furthermore are convinced that CJ and Syllo were bussed. | ||
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Just a cautionary tale of trying to figure out too much from who got hit by how much damage on the first night. | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:26 Hassybaby wrote: Any relevant information was sent out to people that are linked to said information You're not very nice | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:43 CaveJohnson wrote: If I was inflating my post count I'd be on my main account now wouldn't I Do you know anything about the countdown the rest of us don't? | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:57 risk.nuke wrote: Because he appears to be getting the shit kicked out of him by this magus guy that's why. Maybe I'm dense, but I don't follow this statement. Also, what does it have to do with the party's chances of success? | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Party success is determined before night actions. So there is no way he can die before the party success is determined Well, there could be more dayvig abilities lying around. No reason to assume Kush is the only one. Scum could have them too. | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:15 GreYMisT wrote: Kushm4sta (Cyrus) Has both died in humiliation and has been MODKILLED + Show Spoiler [reasons] + Realizing you have RL issues is one thing, but just saying "well im not going to have time" or "I feel sick" and then blowing your 1 shot ability becasue why not WHEN I HAVE 4 REPLACEMENTS WAITING TO /IN is simply unacceptable. Thus Kushm4sta will be banned from all games of mine in the future and I will seek ban list action against him after the conclusion of this game. + Show Spoiler [Role Pm] + Welcome To Chrono Trigger Mafia! You are Cyrus. You are a loyal knight and a hero of 600 AD, sworn to do whatever it takes to defend your king and queen. At any point, once per game, you may choose to unleash your finishing move, Nirvana Strike. You may activate this by typing ##Nirvana Strike: Player Name in the thread. At this point, no passive or active abilities or states will affect you or your target. If your target has a lower % of health than you do, you will kill the target instantly. If you are tied or have a lower % health, you will be humiliated and die. You also have a 1 shot passive self protection ability. If you are about to die the most damaging ability that is targeting you will be prevented. If this prevention would save you, you will automatically use Nirvana strike on the source of that damage (this passive will not use your Nirvana strike charge). You have 600 max HP. You win with the town. Let this serve as a warning to everyone. Don't toy with me. | ||
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Now I will read the derpaderp that you guys haven been doing in my absenc. | ||
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On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. Why do you post comments with as little impact as this one? I think the answer to the two questions is related somehow. | ||
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On November 26 2012 00:51 Clarity_nl wrote: Oh it's 4? Djo iamp me and? Me. You derp. Start reading the thread. | ||
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On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote: TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... Really? Chronicler and Toad were both under fire D2. Your impression is that the scumteam's strategy is for the inconsistent smurf to bus his rather well-regarded scumbuddy? How, where and why does that make sense? If you don't think that, then why are you casting suspicion on the guy? | ||
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On November 26 2012 02:22 CaveJohnson wrote: So we're ignoring my Acro thing...ok... I am. Mainly because you're an idiot. | ||
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On November 26 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Sadly people never listen to me and always end up being scolded for it in the postgame. Especially setup speculation which along with actionbehaviour is my backyard. On November 26 2012 04:46 risk.nuke wrote: I need to remind myself to go back and read the setup, I always forget things a week or so after I read it and assume everything I don't remember is hidden. People were talking about modifiers in the thread, I guess it started out with someone thinking it was the same thing. Still doesn't change how I feel about HP though. Herpaderp. | ||
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On November 26 2012 13:48 CaveJohnson wrote: I don't need to anymore. There was no town reason to do what he did and he just ignores it. Simple and clean kill in my opinion. Fine. I thought I'd claim immediately. Then realized there wasn't a lynch. Why bother throwing that info out unless there IS a lynch (and it therefore helps town), or Toad is fucking with people's minds (and claming therefore helps town). I know you are the king of roleclaims, but I prefer to not throw all my info in the table and then whine every cycle that people will shoot me. | ||
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On November 26 2012 13:48 CaveJohnson wrote: I don't need to anymore. There was no town reason to do what he did and he just ignores it. Simple and clean kill in my opinion. As I said, you're an idiot. There clearly WAS a town reason. Hopeless1der (regardless of whether he's town or not) was acting with him, and Oatsmaster was making up crap about Chronicler's claim being fake, which I knew it was not. If you look at my vehement reactions to both, you should see that I acted far more certain than I should have if I didnt have that info (or planned to bus Toad then and there. I agree that that is always a possibility... too bad that wasn't the case right now). Oh, and do you really think that an Acro/Sandroba/Toad scumteam would end cycle 2 with me hard defending Sandroba and trying to push the lynch onto my scumbuddy? As I said, you're an idiot. I am done talking to you. | ||
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On November 26 2012 03:15 marvellosity wrote: by the way, sand's bussing ability doesn't bus damage, only DT/tracker/watcher stuff. Seems everybody missed this: how do you know this? | ||
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On November 26 2012 13:56 CaveJohnson wrote: Still no reason to throw your role claim out after TC's. 2-1 trade isn't nearly as nice as the 1-1 trade would have been. Sure it must of been annoying to not have any use on your 1 shot ability but thats Mafia. You could of lit up a scum target for every vigilante and role blocker but instead only did so after it was meaningless. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Also, you're not thinking straight. My info helps nail Toad, you agree? If it helps nail Toad and he flips scum, which I 100% think it does, then you can make the claim that my roleclaim is not alignment indicative as I might have been bussing. Go ahead and do that, but how the flying fuck does this suddenly make it a 2 for 1 trade for town? If Toad flips and he's town, then it's a 2 for 1 trade in favour of town. So.. yeah, that would make me the greatest derp in the history of herpaderps. In closing: you're an idiot. | ||
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On November 26 2012 14:03 Promethelax wrote: here Acro. Maybe you didn't read this. I read that shit. I fail to see your point. You have some knowledge about what a frame busser does that is before Marv's explanation, because I sure as fuck don't. Marv claims it only busses roles, not damage. Where does he get that info? | ||
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On November 26 2012 14:04 Promethelax wrote: @Acro: stop being lazy. Last time I look up something that can EASILY be checked. Took me 3 clicks to find this post: On November 26 2012 14:10 Promethelax wrote: I re-read it when you were asking about how Marv knew that and I read Frame busser as someone who busses alignments not anything else. I guess I could be wrong? Could you explain the difference between a "frame busser" and a "busser" role? I believe... yes... I think.... YES I DID FIND Promethelax. He was hiding here: ![[image loading]](http://www.tikihumor.com/wp-content/uploads/tiki-humor/2011/09/herpaderp-388x500.jpg) | ||
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On November 26 2012 14:10 CaveJohnson wrote: Toad was already nailed by TC's claim. If you are town then you and TC will be shot by scum for your silliness. If toad flips town he will have been framed and more than likely TC would be lynched before you allowing you to hide behind the shield of "OH NO HE WAS FRAMED!" as a "confirmed" town. True enough TC could possibly do the same but I find that less likely with regards to how he actually claimed. If you think I'm scum. Say so. Otherwise just shut the fuck up. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:03 Clarity_nl wrote: No, he means 10. Pull out your calculator, boys. I'm sure people already pointed this out, but the seriously fucking dumb and failing at basic arythmetic is strong in this one. Time between first two numbers: 10 Time between second two numbers: 12 Watching the fail on Prom and Clarity's faces: Priceless. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:13 Clarity_nl wrote: In fact, the #9 was late, it said so in the actual post too. The numbers are 10 hours apart, meaning in 70 hours the countdown will hit 0. Lol. Like. Seriously. 8 * 10 - 70 = how much exactly? | ||
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On November 26 2012 14:19 CaveJohnson wrote: There are some roles that get around stuff like that. Also Acro I just hate the roleclaim and I don't want you to hide behind a confirmed town status as a result of it. I'm glad you don't consider me confirmed town. That would be pretty fucking stupid. I have done nothing to be confirmed town. | ||
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On November 26 2012 11:43 Hopeless1der wrote: Because I'm insane. Deal with it. When Toad flips scum, have a field day with me, this is no longer productive. Oh, we will. If Toad is scum you've claimed scum a couple of times in the thread. I look forward to our next two lynch days (and vig shots, I hope). | ||
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Also, I'm caught up on the thread. You will notice that I did not answer certain questions. That is deliberate. I gave the information I felt was necessary to succeed in this party. I also gave the information to ensure Toad shut the fuck up (mission accomplished) and is lynched as the scummy scum he is the very next chance we get. Any more information will have to wait until I think it will help us. If that means Marv, Keirathi and Prom are going to yammer at me for the next 72 hours or so, then tough titties. | ||
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On November 26 2012 20:56 syllogism wrote: If I had to name a five person mafia team on the spot without reading any of the filters. I would probably go with sandro toad acro prom and maaaybe risk The above risk-prom conversation feels off, as does the fact that risk decided to run today for election. He also supported sandro early and the post in which he declared his vote is suspicious in more ways than one. Anyway, this isn't relevant right now. Nice list you got there. Want to explain my presence there? | ||
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Anyway, I have some particularly weird reasoning about Hopeless that I don't want to share until Toad actually flips, because if my wild speculation about Toad's role is wrong, then it means nothing, but if I am right, I really feel his vote for Toad today was him claiming scum. | ||
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On November 26 2012 21:11 Clarity_nl wrote: You are both reacting rather violently despite him saying "without reading filters, if I had to pick" One of the most influential players in the game decides to include you in a random list of scum reads with no reasoning at all and we're supposed to lie down and say "yeah, that's right?". I'm not too worried about him calling me scum because I know I'm not and whatever reasons he give are going to be bullshit, but I am a bit upset for just being thrown up on that list, yeah. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Prom's action claim] + On November 25 2012 09:32 Promethelax wrote: okay, it seems that my role is pretty contentious for Kita and Kier (and probably everyone else who has a name that stars with K) the ability I used last night Roleblocks all players who target a single player with their actions. I took a gamble and assumed that I was the only one with a roleblocking ability because only two people claimed RB'd and I assumed that they both targeted Syllo. I did not want to reveal why I knew that those players targeted Syllo or the correlation with the roleblocks (this is why I haven't yet confronted marv about his targeting Syllo but now that the cat is out of the bag: Marv, what were you trying to do to the Great Leader?). I decided to gamble that i was right and that Sand had targeted Syllo (50% chance at least just from there being only two RB claims) and force him to claim what he had done. My bread crumb should be obvious to anyone looking but here it is: this is why I said that I was sending in my night actions there, to be clear that this is where I specified them. I'm saying that I am using my power to protect Syllo and that it will [role]block people who target him. It isn't a brilliant crumb but I think the awkward wording speaks for itself, this is a crumb. I have other powers but this is the one you need to know about. If I place this on a plyer and they are not targeted for a certain number of cycles than it will provide a certain amount of protection against damage from any in game source. That being said I would like to return to game things: I have not played with him but the games I have read of his would suggest that this is totally true. Marv is right here. Hapa: you ignored everything I said in response. I think you know better that my actions follow the way I think about the game which, as should be obvious, is not always the dominant way of thinking. Since you haven't responded to me I don't have more to add except that you are a top scum read for me now. I've never seen you, as town, push that someone is scum but also refuse to engage with them. You are more hands on. I expect this disengaged sort of attack from Zbo but not from you. hah, gotcha Sand. In post game I'm going to revel in getting that one right. Just in case anyone wasn't sure. Summary: Prom targets a person at night. Anybody visiting that person gets roleblocked. Now, I looked at this and compared it to my own abilities and to Kush's ability and figured that this was a riduculously powerful town ability if it didn't have a downside, so I asked Prom about that: On November 25 2012 21:16 Promethelax wrote: essentially the downsides are only if my reads are bad. There are some restrictions on when I can use my claimed ability. There are other aspects of my role which are, in my opinion, less powerful than the claimed aspect. but can be used when the claimed aspect cannot be used. I read this and figured it jibed at the time. But as I was answering Prom's question about why I asked him about the downsides, I realized that it actually makes the ability even stronger: it is a protection ability that combines with a 1-shot watcher (no way scum is going to claim roleblocked from now on) AND a DT check? So I tested. Isn't this you claiming that if your ability works, you used it on a townie? You used it on Syllo, so how can you be doubtful about him after targeting him with your ability? | ||
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On November 26 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote: 7 What? This is posted at exactly the right time? Or are you 9 minutes early? | ||
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On November 26 2012 21:53 Promethelax wrote: because, though I had a town read on him at the time, the ability used on him by scum was a fram bus. Now I thought that was to try to frame him to come up red but it could be to frame him to come up green. Essentially one of the two guys targeted by that frame bus was scum and one was town. That's not what I asked. You claim the downside to your ability is something to do with you having bad reads. That generally means town who use the ability on a scumster, either the ability fails. You seem quite convinced your ability didn't fail, and both Sandroba and Marv claim to have targeted Syllo, so there is some corroborating evidence that your ability succeeded. Do you think Sandroba's bus drive ability (assuming he used that and not the DoT) succeeded? Or was he roleblocked before it could happen? You should have that information somewhere in your role pm, or can probably ask the hosts in what order your actions resolve. At least you should be able to know whether Sandroba would be notified of being roleblocked if he had no actions left that day. | ||
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On November 26 2012 21:56 marvellosity wrote: I'm sure you could work this out yourself, but I asked Greymist :> Greymist didn't answer in the thread. I presumed that meant he didn't want to answer what Sandroba's ability does. Lets try again: What does Sandroba's "shadow" ability do? | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:09 Promethelax wrote: oh, no, you misunderstand. I get it now. What I meant is that assuming I target a player whom mafia is targeting and who is town my ability is great but if, for instance I target scum player whom town is targeting with a bunch of abilities (like say I have super major town read on you and I protect you but everyone else in town thinks you are scum and is shooting/DTing/whatever'ing you but you are scum I prot you from all that and RB a bunch of townies). My ability functions the same no matter who I target. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't even think about the possibility of a dreamflower-esque ability. I've never been in a game with one. Okay, so your ability has no downsides. That makes it far more powerful than anything I have seen (or seen claimed) so far. I found Kush's ability pretty damned awesome: a PGO + dayvig? Sign me up! But at least it came with conditionals. I am not sure what to think about this claim. However, I am not making sense of it from a scum point of view either. Must've been a pretty stellar guess to know Marv was targeting Syllo. Either that, or scum has some kind of watcher, which doesn't make much sense at all. | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:10 Promethelax wrote: I was. But I didn't use that ability d2 and Risk claimed RB. Ergo I am not the only RBer. I mentioned this already. You say all your other abilities are weaker than the protection. I bloody well hope so. But why would you not use it D2? I can see some scum motivation for claiming not to use it D2, but it means the whole claim is fake and that brings me back to how you knew Marv was targeting Syllo... and I am also confused what point it serves to plant a claim like that in D2. Some town cred? | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:18 Promethelax wrote: there is some limit to when I can use that ability and I have at least one other, lesser, ability which I can use on those cycles when I can't use my primary ability. I have a kickass role that, if I was a better player, could be exploited in more ways than I have figured out. Oh, ok. Sniped. So it does have downsides: you cannot use it every cycle. | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:24 Promethelax wrote: sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. Ummm...hard to explain without revealing the intricacies of the role to mafia. I couldn't last cycle. I will this cycle. Shouldn't have explained further. At least you'll draw a roleblock so our vigis can shoot Toad, Hopeless or lurkers. | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote: oh yeah. that does sound kinda unlikely. On the other hand: why not? | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:58 marvellosity wrote: I understand running 2, because you can try to consolidate behind the 1 who looks more likely. 3 seems like spreading yourself too thin. Oh, I can see it happening. They are all strong players who are expected to run. Not that I feel Kita is scum, I still don't see a scum motivation behind his play, and 3P is more likely. I just don't feel that 3 scum running for the position is weird. Particularly because Toad was the last to jump in and Toad will always want attention. | ||
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On November 26 2012 23:13 Promethelax wrote: you were scum in LC but you were magical town jailer of doom in Rockband so I'll accept that. Kita: name claim please? What do you feel Kita's claim will do for town at the moment? PS. What changed all of a sudden that you are here to micromanage the game (your normal playstyle)? | ||
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On November 26 2012 23:30 marvellosity wrote: please don't hit s&b, I've metad him town for the moment. That's confusing. I'd like to think I know S&B about as well as the next guy, but he's still completely null to me. On the other hand, I have a slight meta town read on Adam. | ||
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Scum in LVI, town in Whose line is it. As scum he is far less cocky. As I said at the start of the game, though, my experience playing with Adam as either alignment is that he lurks the crap out of the thread and gets modkilled for inactivity. | ||
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On November 27 2012 00:14 iamperfection wrote: I agree with you on VE he never is quiet from what i remember. It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. I especially like this post here: On November 26 2012 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm back! It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers. | ||
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On November 27 2012 00:43 Djodref wrote: I don't want to target Toad tonight for the reason that the mafia knows he is going to be targeted. Who should I hit according to you ? By the way, how do you know they are town ? And if you have a better idea to force them to contribute, I'm open to discuss about that problem, because it's going to be a problem on the long term. If you fail to do this, I'm shooting one of them. I think he's trying to say that you should shoot a lurker who you think is probably scum, and not a lurker who you are just angry with for not participating in the game. | ||
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On November 27 2012 00:41 CaveJohnson wrote: I can tell... Notice how even SnB hasn't acted against me? I thought I'd bring it up to you since you know our relationship a little too well Of course I know our relationship well. If you recall Bastard 2 I very very very nearly shot you in the face with my vig shot, but I didn't think you were scum and decided to play to my wincon rather than personal satisfaction. In Caller's game you might recall that SnB were scum and I'm not sure the scum QT was ever posted, but we were both pretty damned happy to get to shoot you in the face. It definitely didn't help my feeling of vengeance that you had a double vig shot that night that you used to take us out, basically based on shit-and-giggles: you never had a scumread, you just knew we weren't in your particular team of slavs. Nevertheless, this game I have no clue what you are. I don't honestly think you'd be the best vig shot tonight, but I really wouldn't object to you dying. | ||
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On November 27 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: Ok, so let's discuss then. Let's make some charades If I was crazy and raging and about to use my full force against VE. What could you say to me to prevent me from committing this crime, assuming you are having a soft spot (ie town read or at least non-scum read) for him ? /looks at acting. Hot air balloon! Am I right? | ||
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On November 27 2012 01:06 Djodref wrote: What do you mean ? I have some difficulties to understand idioms sometimes ^^ More seriously, do you have anything to say in VE's defense ? It was a joke. You wanted to play charades Anyway, I obviously have absolutely nothing to say in VE's defense. See a few posts up in my filter what I think of VE. | ||
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On November 27 2012 02:01 Adam4167 wrote: I don't know why I laughed out loud at this, but I did. Come on back now, ya hear. Talk to us. Wy do you want hypnotoad the 99% confirmed scum to come back? | ||
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On November 27 2012 04:21 Hapahauli wrote: Uh yeah, well that much is obvious. But even then, that doesn't say much about Acro really. Well, it does. It says I was right. Whether that is right, because I checked him with my DT ability, or right because I am Toad's scumbuddy I'll leave for you people to figure out. I would like to point out my D2 behaviour. Takes a special kind of conspiracy for scum to try to move the lynch from one of his scumbuddies onto another of his scumbuddies. Have fun. Lets first kill Toad, though, and show the world that I was, in fact, right. | ||
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On November 27 2012 07:06 Clarity_nl wrote: This is ridiculous. I can only imagine how much effort went into creating and hosting this game and some people just don't give a shit. Agreed. | ||
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On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote: TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town. Dafuq? Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is. 1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you. 2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset. 3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add. Verdict: scum PS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta. | ||
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On November 27 2012 09:38 TheChronicler wrote: No. Winning the event is more important than your "proving" you're town. This reads as scum trying to get on the team to make us fail the event as a last ditch effort. We don't even have a lynch today, and Toad would be the lynch over you regardless. Acro could easily have been bussing Toad after seeing my check. I STILL can't wrap my head around why he would claim in thread. What scum would do something like that, though? If I was bussing Toad, I was doing so way before your check. | ||
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I'm fine with either Keir or Clarity being leader this time round. Voted for Keirathi. | ||
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On November 27 2012 09:59 TheChronicler wrote: So we only have 4 people we can possibly bring today. Party should be Keir, Dei, Syllo, Clarity No. Can't take Dino and Clarity both. Keir, Syllo, Dieno/Clarity and either Djodref or Chronicler would be my choice. | ||
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On November 27 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: Oh I totes confused names for some reason. Yes Syllo instead of Chronicler/Acro. Whaddya think? I'm in a position where I'm not under suspicion, and I (as hypothetical scum) would only have everything to lose by presenting myself like this. I'm not strongly opposed to you going along. I still prefer Djodref or Chronicler. I see no reason for you to be leader, though. Whatever these events do, it might be worthwhile to scum to sacrifice one to fail the event. We don't seem to be getting many lynches and already have Toad's head on the chopping block. | ||
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On November 27 2012 10:17 Dienosore wrote: OHH, just read the 1.5 thing. Ok well then I retract my candidacy for this cycle. As much as I'd like to get masamune working again by winning as party leader (just a guess), I think it would be better for Oats to be in the group while it's still his era. Not sure who I want to vote yet. I think I'm going to let things simmer a touch before I place my vote this time. We're at the end of time, not 2300. | ||
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From here it's to 1000 AD, then 600 AD, 1000 AD again, then prehistory, quick stop in 1000 AD again, then back to 600 AD (where Dieno might get his sword), prehistory again, and that's only as far as I have gotten into Chrono Trigger so far.Maybe we get lynches in 1000 AD? | ||
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On November 27 2012 10:19 Hopeless1der wrote: I want to vote Toad purely out of spite. No one is confirmed anything except for marv and kush. Hey Toad, you still need a vote to prevent damage? IF you're town, this woud be playing directly against your own wincon. So think about that. | ||
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On November 27 2012 10:24 iamperfection wrote: im not that well versed in chrono but how important would dieno be in terms of the game? Like should it be a super important goal for him to survive as long as possible? Well, so far he is the main character from 600 AD, which has had the most important plot elements so far. Of course I don't think I'm even halway through the game yet. He's not as important as Crono obviously. However, I really doubt Greymist balanced this game around the main characters roleclaiming, so I doubt he has stuff we cannot live without. | ||
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On November 27 2012 10:38 Dienosore wrote: ##Vote: Dienosore Also, here is my daily dmg report and notable claims: + Show Spoiler + thechronicler - 150 dmg, his ability was ineffective hopeless1der - 75 dmg hapahauli - 50 dmg promethelax - 25 dmg, was roleblocked toad - got shot, but minimal dmg acrofales - negated 50 dmg to himself kitaman no sidegame thechronicler claims acro and hopeless are opposite factions Eh? I never claimed that. What I said is that I didn't take damage. Therefore whatever was hitting me for two cycles had stopped and done a total damage of 50 (20 the first night, 30 the second). | ||
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And third party? People not thinking this through and drawing premature conclusions are making me sad. | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:35 Promethelax wrote: This is fucking stupid. You are aware of this right? Everyone can and should pick themselves. Town know 100% that they are town and scum know that town 100% know themselves to be town so choosing anyone but themselves is butt fuck backwards. This explanation is well past pants on head. Marv: while Hapa is a cute little hedgehog he is usually a responsive one. Not getting a scum read from his behavior but I am uncomfortable with him not explaining himself and getting defensive instead. Why hedgehog? It is not an idiom I am familiar with (such as puppy). I thought this was a crumb for something. | ||
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On November 27 2012 15:37 syllogism wrote: Oh there is basically a red check on Acro. Don't worry hopeless, I got your back. You switching your brain off this game is not helping anybody. | ||
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On November 27 2012 20:40 Clarity_nl wrote: It's pretty damning but I think for now hammering on a single point isn't actually helping, you guys don't seem to be getting anywhere anyway. If it was a regular game I wouldn't want you to stop but since we don't get that many lynches perhaps it's better to make a single comprehensive case and leave it at that or focus on other things for now and revisit this on a lynch day. We have a lynch target. It's Toad. Given that finding a party is pretty easy, and we have our next lynch cycle lined up as well, what do you propose we talk about? I actually agree with Syllo that everybody giving this game a rest for the next 24 hours or so would be good. I woke up this morning to 4 pages of back and forth arguing between Hapa and Prom, that, in my mind did absolutely nothing productive (it gave me LI flashbacks, which I assure you is NOT a good thing if you're town). Then Syllo started. It was slightly more productive, but even if we have reason to believe Prom is scum, he can't be lynched for an eternity yet, so it's really pointless and all this arguing is leading to confirmation bias from everybody involved. Take a break, I say. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:05 GreYMisT wrote: 10 Someone said this may have come late, because the daypost came late. However, I really don't think that's the case. The number came half an hour after the post. On November 25 2012 20:42 Hassybaby wrote: Delayed message from Grey (I was asleep ._.) 9 On November 25 2012 20:55 Hassybaby wrote: Just under an hour now. Was supposed to be at 20:00 KST Time between the two: 10 hours, or if we need precise: 595 minutes. On November 26 2012 07:59 Mementoss wrote: 8 Time between the two: 12 hours, or more precise: 719 minutes. On November 26 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote: 7 Time between the two: 14 hours, or more precise: 833 minutes. On November 27 2012 09:06 GreYMisT wrote: 6 Time between the two: 11 hours, or more precise: 674 minutes. It is now coming up on 15 hours since the 6 was posted. I see no sensible pattern here. Hassy's post implies that the timing was preordained, so not dependent on something happening in the thread. If this is either a puzzle, or something we will have to respond to, it is worthwhile figuring it out. I see no reason to post the numbers unless we are supposed to do something with them (although the "what" may only become apparent later). My role gives no hints at all. Anybody else have a clue? | ||
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Fuck it, lets try ##kill Golem Overlord Note, I do not have this ability in my role pm and have no clue whether it'll work or not, but it's the only thing related to a countdown I can find. It is pure speculation. | ||
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On November 28 2012 00:21 Djodref wrote: Ok, I'm going to follow marv last advice and use some KISS. Toad is scum. Iamp and Clarity are both town with protective roles. TheChronicler is town and says his truth. Prom is town and says his truth. Acro is 3rd party and Hopeless is town/scum. If Hopeless is town then Z-Bo might be scum. Adam is more likely to be town than scum. I'm very uncomfortable with VE. There is some 3rd party or scum among kita and CJ ? Except the part concerning Prome, would anybody agree or disagree on some points ? Is this your not-so-subtle way of asking me whether I'm third party? I think your Hopeless Zbo conditional is stretching the association a bit. Also Zbo might be scum regardless of Hopeless' flip. I don't see his case as particularly indicative of alignment: Zbo was catching some pressure and making a case is a good way of getting out from pressure. I, and probably many other people, were very suspicious of Hopeless. If Hopeless is scum, then this would be a pretty good opportunity to bus. I don't think anybody can disagree on how you feel about VE. They might feel differently, though. Personally, I agree and feel there's a good chance of him being scum. He keeps saying "sorry I'm not contributing" and jumping out of the thread for the next 24 hours again. Hard to tell, though, it's VE. I see no reason to heap Kita and CJ together. I fail to see a link between them. | ||
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Seeing as the cat's pretty much out of the bag, I confirm I'm 3rd party. My wincon is to survive and do some stuff that I am not telling anybody about. I promise that the extra stuff is in town's best interest. Not saying anything more, because I suspect there are other people out there who have to kill me. Otherwise Drazerk's solution to playing a survivor will always work: claim D1 and go AFK (or in this case, claim D1 and help town to figure out how to fulfill the other part of my wincon, THEN go AFK). This is also immediately the reason I don't want to be on a party. I asked Greymist whether my influence counts with town or scum, or whether I could choose. He told me that I cannot choose and that he's not saying what my influence counts as. I have no way of knowing my hidden influence factor. So.. no. There is no contradiction between my not wanting to be on the party and being really surprised at Keirathi's claim. Think about it, though: scum was probably not feeling too comfortable on D3. D1 went town's way, D2 went further town's way. Why would they NOT want to take any opportunity to get on the party? Claiming not wanting to be on the party would be a ridiculously stupid move, unless you think scum is so afraid of being caught out through the party mechanic that they are going to hide all game while town figures them out and kills them one by one on the few lynch days we get? Oh, I can claim some other stuff: I have a load of one-shot abilities, but don't know what they do. Part of my suspicions of Drazerk are founded on this: he claims to be able to figure out what his abilities do before using them. I am unable and have to use them and pray. I can make an educated guess using common sense and some help from the chronopedia to figure out what is likely, but I cannot know for certain. Not giving ability names either, as they are 100% linked to my character name. On D1 I used an ability that I thought would mason me with 3 other people. Instead it did 75 damage to each of them. I hit Sandroba, Dienosore and BioSC with it. I wanted to chat with Sandroba and BioSC to figure out if they were scum or not. I wanted to chat with Dienosore about setup-related stuff that largely got resolved in the thread. I already said what I did D2. D3 I cannot reveal, as it says too much about me. This is the only one I breadcrumbed, though, so if I ever feel safe in claiming my name in full, you will be able to check it. @Hopeless1derp: I have called you an idiot too many times this game, already, but here goes again. On the offchance you are really town (which I really don't think): you're an idiot. OF COURSE you want Lavos to appear when scum is dead. Fairly certain killing Lavos with scum alive is going to be harder than killing him with scum dead. It doesn't look like there's much opportunity to kill scum, so wasting whatever abilities you have to kill scum on me is beyond ridiculous. I also have rather a lot of HP and things that I really really suspect are heals. There is 0 point to killing me and I am helping town as best I can. I have done more scumhunting than pretty much anybody except Marv. I was wrong on Sandroba, so /shrug. However, I DID find Toad. If you prefer I shut up and go afk for the rest of the game, say so. I am happy to leave you derps derping it up. This time I don't give a shit if the endgame has Kushes Fubas and Proms in it: I just need to not get killed once I have completed my other condition, which I am fairly confident I can do without your help. | ||
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What I am FAR more interested in is knowing why Iamperfection thought Hapa would need healing D1. | ||
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On November 28 2012 01:39 risk.nuke wrote: If you're third party and you're good for town why don't you want to say what you want to do, you're asking us to trust you leaving you alive is in towns best interest. What third party have 1-shot cop. I can't say what I need to do, because anybody with Chrono Trigger lore knowledge will probably be able to figure out who I am. As there's probably mechanisms to prevent that from being a good idea, you'll just have to trust me. Have I given you any reason not to trust me? | ||
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On November 28 2012 01:41 syllogism wrote: If you are a third party and there is someone out to get you, I can assure you what you said is already sufficient. It's not like they have someone else to target, so these excuses about wanting to hide your identity seem a bit thin based on what you said. We'll see, won't we. I see no reason to put myself at more risk than I have to. The 3P was already pretty obvious, so that increases no further risk to me. My identity, however, is something that could very well be used against me. Anyway, my name is pointless. Greymist was happy to supply me with a fakeclaim, so it'll still be up to you to figure out whether I'm telling the truth. I decided not to use the fakeclaim and just tell the truth. But that doesn't mean I want to claim my real name. So in short, to anybody saying I should claim: I'll be the judge of that and I say no. Go suck it. | ||
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On November 28 2012 01:46 risk.nuke wrote: Lets put it this way, If you were third party who's objective would hurt town. Would you claim that or something in the lines of what you just did? I would lie my ass off. However, I would probably not be leaking 3rd party on all sides. I am a better player than that and you should know it. I played the way I did precisely because I am helping town. If you have any specific accusations, go ahead and make them. | ||
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On November 28 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote: You were suspected as scum even with the play you've played. Playing worse might had gotten you lynched already. You're asking us to trust you but you should understand there is no way that's going to happen. Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! I was clearly suspected of being scum. Only person who even voiced that was Syllo and he said it without having read my filter. Stop throwing suspicion around unwarranted. Anyway, who said that I would have played WORSE? I would probably have played a lot SAFER. Like, I would not have looked so ridiculously townie that people wanted to take me along for the ride on D3, forcing me to claim I didn't want to. So. Why are you misrepresenting what happened just to be suspicious of me? In fact, what have you DONE this game? Are you the guy who has to kill me? | ||
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Don't heal me, don't take me along on parties. Hell, you can even ignore all the help I give in scumhunting. Just don't go out of your way to kill me, because it is 1. a complete waste of your resources (this goes for town or scum) and 2. fucks me over for no reason whatsoever. | ||
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All other information is unconfirmed and there is nothing we can do with it anyway, because we don't have a lynch. One thing I can tell you is that Greymist seems not to expect this game to go past 9 cycles, as I have 9 1-shot spells to use. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:03 TheChronicler wrote: Someone has to kill you and you claimed? How about you read my claim. It's explained there. /VERY tired of people not reading the thread. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:09 phagga wrote: Acro: why exactly do you think that there cannot be a cycle where you do not have an ability to use? It's possible, but I think it would make my role rather boring after 9 cycles. Anyway, 9 cycles is a long time away. | ||
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Any other ideas for the countdown and the weird time between the numbers? I tried looking at the timestamps as numbers rather than times and that made no sense either. I can't think of a reason for posting a countdown unless we are supposed to react to it in some way. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:30 TheChronicler wrote: Are you referring to this part of your claim? "because I suspect there are other people out there who have to kill me" I'm not seeing what you could be referring to otherwise, and I still don't understand why you claimed. You say the cat was out of the bag, but it was all speculation. The cat WAS out of the bag. Speculation or not, there were at least 3 people thinking I was 3P. Scumteam probably already had it figured even earlier. Djodref basically phrased his question oddly, but he did ask me whether I was 3P. Saying no would have made things worse if I ever have to claim in the future, which was looking increasingly likely with the parity check. The parity check alone also weighed in on my decision. Better to claim 3P now and get that evidence off the table against Hopeless1der. I think he's scum. I think he should be killed. But I don't want people killing him because of your check, and I definitely don't want people going after ME if he were to flip town. Claiming 3P afterwards would have looked terrible. "Scum trying to get out of being lynched" would be the first thing that would come to my mind if I were townie having mislynched one side of a parity check. I really want that excuse out of the way. Also, go ahead and check me against Toad if you don't believe me. I would be much obliged. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Well either no one knows, or the select few don't want us to know. If it is the Golem Overlord, he's just going to flee anyways so we don't need to worry about it. Other countdowns include the Guardian from Arris Dome (2300AD), Azala+BlackTyrano (65000000BC) and Rust Tyrano (600AD) Want to try whatever you think is effective against them? ##kill Guardian body Haven't gotten to the other boss fights yet, so no clue what to do in the cooldown | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:52 Hopeless1der wrote: Acro, if you explained why you thought your N1 action would cause masonry, would you be revealing your role? No. Actually the name of the ability made me think it didn't, but I asked Greymist about another ability name I have which makes no sense lorewise and he told me he simply ran out of names. The reason I thought it caused a mason chat is because it targeted 3 people. With Aperture (and its various communication channels) in the back of my mind, I hoped for a mason chat. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:52 Hapahauli wrote: I think Toad fits a 3rd party read to a T. The guy is incredibly active, and largely pro-town, with some slightly "off" things in his filter. That's a really classic example of a third party. But since we all think that Toad is 99.9% scum, consider this: Acro was the first person to build a significant case and push Toad's lynch. On top of this, he did this on D2, when Sandroba was the consensus lynch. There is no conceivable way that Scum would turn down an easy bussing opportunity to bus another of their teammates. Makes no damn sense from a mafia perspective. Herpaderp. PARITY CHECK. SAME as Sandroba. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:42 Keirathi wrote: Hey, you forgot about me! In all seriousness, I'm not really sure what to do about you. I mentioned the things I found off about your play this game to Hapa. And third party could definitely explain them. My problem, of course, is that so could scum. In a game with a limited amount of lynches, as it seems, third party survivor makes a ton of sense for scum to fake-claim. Anyways, does your role PM specifically mention someone "hunting" you, so to speak? If so, why the hell did you claim at all? If not, why is your default assumption that there is someone looking for you? My role PM does not mention someone hunting me. Common sense tells me there's probably someone hunting me to prevent me from just roleclaiming in my first post. | ||
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On November 28 2012 03:59 TheChronicler wrote: You bemoan me for not reading when I did read while you haven't read anything I've written :/ I still don't think you should have claimed. Your confirm red check should never have been claimed, and your claim just now never should have happened. Toad is the very clear next lynch, there isn't any REAL pressure on you for at least two cycles (that's on the assumption of two lynches consecutively) and on top of this no scum in their right mind would kill you while there's that much suspicion on you so you don't even have to worry about that (which you clearly weren't anyways). I just don't get it. So, you think I played suboptimally. /shrug. | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:04 Hapahauli wrote: @ Acro I"m curious, do you think risk is scum? I'm generally worried about going after "lynch-bait" type players, but his play does seem genuinely scummy, especially weighing his crazier//less-consistent town games. I will have to read his filter with more care before I make any definite statement about him. I have had reservations about him for a while, but he was in the "null" list until he reacted really weirdly to my claim. His reaction seems really weird for town. Honestly, I don't feel like adding more suspects to the table right now. It's getting to the point where it's counterproductive, because there is no way of verifying for a long time, which increases paranoia and speculation. I definitely wouldn't trust risk at the moment. | ||
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I have to admit that I have payed little attention to Hapa this game. I was on high alert D1 when he suddenly went nuts and wanted to run for leader at the last moment. I then reread him to see if I wanted to lynch him and decided I didn't. I dismissed him as someone to be figured out later. That later has not yet happened. | ||
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You should, however, see that my behaviour towards TC flipped 180 degrees after that claim. During D2 I was pressuring him pretty hard about his inconsistent behaviour. At the end of D2 I concluded this about his behaviour: On November 25 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote: I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum. D3 the first time I mention him is: On November 25 2012 11:05 Acrofales wrote: There is no doubt in my mind that the man is telling the truth. Lay off him. I don't think I could have made it any clearer that I had some information that corroborated his claim. People are just so fucking terrible at taking hints in this game, though. People continued to doubt the claim. Toad counterclaimed. I tried the "I'm certain you're lying approach", but he wouldn't shut up. I felt the only way of putting the argument to rest was to provide the full information. I wanted the coffin nailed tightly shut, you will notice that he was contesting the claim at first. Since the second check he vanished from the thread completely. Pretty much the effect I wanted to get from Toad. Imagine LI, but with an unknown, but > 48 hours before we would be able to kill Toad. Shit dude, that's scary. Regarding my not wanting to be in the party: I believe I have explained that adequately? | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:24 Keirathi wrote: Occam's Razor says yes, you are right. I could make other assessments, but I don't feel like they are particularly super likely, nor constructive. But his claim with the assumption that someone is "hunting" him just doesn't make sense. The assumption is based on setup speculation. Survivors are not fun unless there is a risk of NOT surviving. That risk cannot come purely from scum or town, because then there is the possibility of simply claiming D1 and going afk. That risk could come from an SK, who has to kill everybody before some other faction wins. In that case my claim made no difference. I also think SK in this setup is probably an unwinnable role, so I dismissed that. That leaves the threat of someone who has to kill me. Whether that person actually exists or not? I dunno. But the possibility is enough to make me not want to claim my name. I don't think I increased the risk by claiming 3P, because I was already pretty much outed. If you have the wincon to kill someone you expect is 3P, you are extra-hyper-alert to that kinda thing. Therefore when Djodref blatantly throws it out there and people agree with him, you can bet your ass whoever may or may not be after me was already gunning for me. The fact that I took no damage last night is actually an indicator that nobody is after me. I thought it was already fairly obvious by my behaviour towards Keirathi that I was 3P. I'm still not gonna risk it, though. | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:50 Clarity_nl wrote: I have had time to read up on TC and I agree with Dieno that he would probably be the best 4th pick right now, despite some terrible plays this game. This makes my party identical to that of Dieno's, unfortunately, so the only thing I have to run on is the fact that iamp more than likely healed me up to full, so any item given to me will be better than having it on Dieno. If anyone disagrees with this I would love an explanation, but until such time I expect your votes. My vote is fine where it is. I don't care which one of you, Dieno or Keirathi leads the party. I also don't think there's a significant difference between giving you, Dieno or Keirathi the item. Therefore my vote is fine where it is. | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:54 TheChronicler wrote: I'm an idiot. I'll bite: why? | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:56 Clarity_nl wrote: Except for the fact that we know Dieno took a boatload of damage already. Ok. My vote is on Keir, though. | ||
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On November 28 2012 04:59 syllogism wrote: Looking back, the seeming "difficulty" in finding townies on day 1 might just have been due to there being many really towny players who were, in fact, town. I had too many town reads and was starting to second guess myself based on everyone being town. It's comforting to be in a game where the majority of people are actually able to play the game decently, isn't it? You missing people like Grush? | ||
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On November 28 2012 05:48 TheChronicler wrote: Alrighty well unless Keir comes in with something that says why he needs the reward I don't see a way for Die to get his sword repaired other than the reward. ##unvote ##vote: Dienosore In the game there's an entire questline devoted to fixing the sword. I suspect that if we wait long enough, we'll get Melchior to fix it. I don't know why the party and the sword are related. Dieno, do you get the feeling you should do something to fix it? Or just wait around til the game fixes it for you? | ||
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On November 28 2012 05:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Ehhh, but scum didn't know marv's hp. It was still a good shield target though, I'm curious was Acro is trying to say. That I didn't understand what he was getting at. I think you're misunderstanding TC: he is saying that he could have left it unknown that scum had already burned through the shield. Now scum know they don't have to worry about it. | ||
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On November 28 2012 05:46 Promethelax wrote: I plan on targeting a member of the party or the party leader with my first ability tonight. I will not reveal my target so that mafia is forced to claim their roleblocks. Why does this force mafia to claim roleblocks? | ||
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On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote: This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious... You feel like soft-defending H1? How about you hard-defend him instead. What the hell has h1 done that is in ANY way REMOTELY in town's best interest? | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:11 GreYMisT wrote: 4 10 12 14 11 15 10 Remove the first 10 and it makes sense. +2 -3 +4 -5. Next one should be at 24:00 KST. Still don't ask me what the fuck this means, though. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:26 goodkarma wrote: So apparently pro-town = town, and anti-town = scum??? O.O Dafuq you talking about. You attack SnB over having a bad case. While I don't find his case particularly convincing, I don't see any motivation for your soft defense of H1. Enlighten us. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:32 strongandbig wrote: i wasn't really trying to make a whole case it's just that the way hopeless responded to having a red check on him (back when a lot of people thought acro was town) didn't seem to me like how a townie would respond Agreed. I made that case already. I do admit that it came in the middle of my drunk spamming spree, so I don't blame anybody for missing it: On November 27 2012 09:49 Acrofales wrote: Dafuq? Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is. 1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you. 2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset. 3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add. Verdict: scum PS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta. | ||
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A simple: ok, TC, your check means Acro is scum or I was framed. The very lack of that is just extremely telling. Combine that with all the overly careful wording and we have a scum who cannot for the life of him imagine how a townie would react and posts this drivel instead. | ||
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##kill Black Tyrannosaur Lets hope one of these works. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:42 Keirathi wrote: You were drunk when you posted that? No wonder your reading comprehension skills were so bad My managing to properly express my thoughts was a bit of a failure, but fairly certain I got the reading part spot on. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:46 Keirathi wrote: The way I read his post is "So, TC has a parity check on me and Acro. Either TC is lying about his check and is scum, or Acro is scum." That seems like a pretty reasonable attitude to me. There are tons of other things in Hopeless' filter that point to the possibility of him being scum, but I don't think that is it. You don't find the utter lack of conviction in that post at all suspicious? | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:48 Keirathi wrote: My point is, a big part of your post calling his response out was how you seemed to think he said "One of us is scum" when it actuality he said "One of THEM is scum", meaning you or TC. Ahhhh. I may have been missing that because I had a very strong town read on TC from the Toad check. I g | ||
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On November 28 2012 10:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I know and I'm kinda fucking salty that this RL bullshit happened AS SOON as my slot opened in this game - I'm a TL Resistance veteran and was all like, planning on campaign posters for trying to be leader and shit...but my activity has made it to where I'm not just not going to be considered for leader, I'm not even going to be PART OF THE TEAM most of the time based solely on my inactivity. Life isn't fair. We do what we can. I hope to make up for being a total failure in that regard by finding some of the scum for if/when we get a lynch again. Stay tuned. As long as you promise that scumhunting does not entail starting a shitfest bitchfight with Toad, I am totally onboard with that plan. Your absence has been rather troubling. You are hard to read even when posting proliferously and while killing all scum is clearly not town's wincon, I don't doubt that killing Lavos is going to be one helluva lot easier with all scum dead. If that means getting to a lynch with no clear scum reads, lynching inactives is a pretty good policy imho. Of course, I do have scumreads to go on. I will have to reevaluate H1's filter and risk.nuke has meandered onto my scumdar, so have to take a good look at him too. I think you'd be a good person to ask about risk.nuke. You should have plenty of history together? | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:30 kitaman27 wrote: I think there is no reason to trust your promise that you have the town's best interest in mind. Look at me caring. I don't trust that town has my best interest in mind. How about we all look out for ourselves and when town beats Lavos and I survive we can go our own ways. Deal? | ||
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Jessica Rabbit. Oh no, wait. That was last game. | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:52 kitaman27 wrote: In the event that you are mafia, revealing the fake claim means that the mafia team would have one claim to work with late game. meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. Or maybe you're in fact scum having the trouble that you don't know which claim on your list will be counterclaimed. It's amazing that you seem MORE interested in my fake claim than my real claim. | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:52 kitaman27 wrote: In the event that you are mafia, revealing the fake claim means that the mafia team would have one claim to work with late game. meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. Oh, and I'm not mafia. Stop being retarded. | ||
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On November 28 2012 21:38 Mementoss wrote: 3 Well, that blew my theory out of the water. Difference between numbers (in hours): 10 12 14 11 15 9 12.5 | ||
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On November 28 2012 20:59 CaveJohnson wrote: It sounds like a clone of mine just with supportive abilities rather than offensive abilities I know mine is balanced VIA my HP so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't take much to kill Acro if you want to remove him from the game. Also no idea where the 1 came from probably a fizzled attack or something. My HP is rather high, actually. Probably has something to do with the third party aspect of my role. Would suck to be a survivor with a wet paper bag as defense. Also, I doubt most of my abilities are "supportive". The abilities I suspect of being heals are not based on their name, it's based on the fact that I can only cast them on me. I have 2 abilities I think might be helpful to town... but they might equally well backfire in your face if I try to use them, just as the bit where I tried to mason people did. | ||
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On November 28 2012 21:48 CaveJohnson wrote: Its far too soon to be Lavos... Although it could be the ocean palace Lavos fight which is essentially unwinnable. I agree. Unless the "or all scum is dead" is a giant troll in Greymist's OP. | ||
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On November 28 2012 21:53 Acrofales wrote: My HP is rather high, actually. Probably has something to do with the third party aspect of my role. Would suck to be a survivor with a wet paper bag as defense. Also, I doubt most of my abilities are "supportive". The abilities I suspect of being heals are not based on their name, it's based on the fact that I can only cast them on me. I have 2 abilities I think might be helpful to town... but they might equally well backfire in your face if I try to use them, just as the bit where I tried to mason people did. That came out wrong. Except for the self-targeting stuff, and the abilities I have that probably help me fulfill my second wincon, there are 2 abilities that might be heals or damage prevention things that I can use on other people, but they might equally well be nukes. I have no idea what my shit does. | ||
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On November 28 2012 22:11 Djodref wrote: my guess is that it's relayed to the number of posts in the thread ^^ I do not want to count though Then how did Hassy know beforehand that he would have to post his post at 20:00? | ||
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Timestamps: 10:05 20:00 +10 / 595 07:59 +12 / 719 +2 / +124 21:52 +14 / 833 +2 / +114 09:06 +11 / 674 -3 / - 159 23:54 +15 / 888 +4 / +214 09:11 +09 / 557 -6 / -331 21:38 +13 / 747 +4 / -190 Given the timestamps, the difference between them and the difference of differences. Alphabet? Assuming 0 = A? K:F U:A H:H V:A J:G X:C J:L V:M This is complete jibberish and is jibberish under any rotational encryption as well. Interpreting as numbers I also don't see anyting useful 1005 2000 + 995 759 - 1241 - 2236 2152 +1393 +2634 906 - 1246 - 2639 2354 +1448 +2694 911 - 1443 - 2891 2138 +1227 +2670 I tried analyzing them in a number of different ways and I see no pattern or hidden message. That leads me to conclude that it's one of three things: 1. I am too dumb to decypher this shit, 2. they are simply roughly every 12 hours, depending on when the hosts have time and they are too lazy to tell us that they should be every 12 hours since the Day 2 action deadline, or 3. this has to be something to do with someone's role. Given that nobody has claimed any knowledge of these numbers, I suspect scum or another 3rd party. I don't like calling myself dumb, so my intuition says either 2 or 3. Maybe it's the impact of Lavos? In the game you don't actually fight Lavos when he crashes into the planet in prehistory. However, that means we are skipping the entire part where we have to make Masamune and fight Magus. ##get on dactyl and fly away from Tyranno Lair | ||
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On November 23 2012 07:53 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Syllogism ##Vote: Hopeless1der Things and such. On November 23 2012 07:55 Hopeless1der wrote: But I want to play setup explorer instead On November 23 2012 09:25 Hopeless1der wrote: Is he scum though? If it is draz, (and I have limited first hand experience) he does this kind of shit regardless. I'd rather not lynch him. I need to read sandroba, but before anything else, I cite his Looney Lynching play as exhibit A on why lack of activity =\= scum sandroba. His interactions with syllo on the other hand...well I'm going to go look into that one. My setup exploration was unproductive by the way. What were you expecting/hoping would happen? Why would 1 person (you) voting for yourself have any influence on anything? | ||
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Here is what I am speculating about Toad, and why it makes H1 scum: + Show Spoiler [speculation] + Premise: Hopeless1der's vote on Toad for D3 makes no fucking sense at all. Toad's insistence on needing votes felt strange to me, regardless of his alignment. Then it clicked. Queen Zeal -> Drama Queen. A role made for Toad. Also: On November 23 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote: <snip> Dude, if you knew :p I'm going to run to leader every single day from now on. I have to, it's my nature Toad reacting weirdly to my drama queen poke. This makes me think the drama queen bit is real and Toad needs a vote every day. This may be in return for a powerful night role, or I am going to speculate even further with a bit of Caller logic here: Drazerk needed to NOT get a vote to be lynch immune in HRM. This is a reversed role, he can only be lynched by nobody voting for him at all. Now I don't think we should put this to the test: if Toad is alive the next lynch day, we lynch the crap out of him. However, it makes sense of Hopeless1der's vote, which is otherwise mindboggling. H1 being Toad's scumbuddy wants to keep Toad alive as long as possible. Toad actually DOES need a vote. Either to prevent 500 damage, or to prevent immediate death. Townies are unlikely to vote for Toad ever again, so it falls to his scumbuddies to do so. H1 is the one to vote. Note that if Queen Zeal is not what I think it is, then all of this is nonsense. | ||
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On November 28 2012 23:11 iamperfection wrote: Acro are you sure your not town? Yeah. It's all good, though. I'll keep helping out wherever I can! | ||
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On November 28 2012 23:04 Oatsmaster wrote: The Gods are playing with us :O Acro get out your codesolving book and tell us the message Fairly certain Mementoss is just fucking with us. He opened up the spoiler and read the first column. I can haul it through the caesar decryption in order of columns, rather than rows. | ||
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On November 22 2012 21:40 risk.nuke wrote: I don't know what you are talking about Acro. As for Oats, He made a tunnelcase on clarity and when it didn't work he tried the yell higher approach. I also didn't like that he voted toad who's notoriously difficult to read but that is a lesser concern. My main problem with oats is he hasn't really done anything in actual terms to distinguish himself as town while he's playing one of the easier ways to play as scum. Furthermore I get the feeling of two sides of him. One calm and considerate and one yell as high as you can side. Right now I don't have an abundant of trust for syllogism and sandroba wants to send oats. I have townreads goodkarma and Djodref. Hrmmm. What was your town read of GK based on at this point? In fact, explain Djodref as well. So far, you have managed to say you didn't have a town read on Oats (which I agreed with at the time, so I didn't think too much into it, but suspicious minds would say you were trying to manipulate town off the party)... and you didn't trust Syllo, without any further explanation. You then throw a seemingly random town read on GK out there. That is what I meant with trust, btw. Your usual meta is to be aggressive and angry at everybody. Your friendliness towards GK feels strange. This is how you justify it a couple of hours later: On November 23 2012 00:45 risk.nuke wrote: I like how he post. I feel I can follow his thoughts. I feel I need something more to justify this weak-ass vote on a weak-ass candidate. I am not understanding your thought process this game, which is somewhat unusual, because you're usually far more transparent. Then comes the whole Sandroba ordeal. There are two ways of reading this: a townie who think Sandroba might be scum, but isn't sure... and scum waiting for Sandro to give him any reasonable opportunity to not bus his scumbuddy. Not much more to say on this issue. However, this is interesting: On November 24 2012 05:01 risk.nuke wrote: <snip> Chronicler I didn't like his initial plan in the terms of that I didn't agree with it. On the other hand "IF" he is town I don't feel the plan was beneficial for the mafiateam either so from that perspective I can see what he was going for. A lot of people make up their own plans because they like the sense of leadership. I don't think his candidacy plan is alignment revealing. I especially liked this post (clicky) from him, even more so in hindsight of syllos sucess. I am slightly leaning town on him. Post in question: On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight. This was one of the posts that set alarm bells off in my mind (and I believe some other players' minds too). I am thus completely and utterly confused: why did this give you a town read on him? How the hell do you go from "Chronicler provides a bad excuse to drop his plan and sheep the majority" to "town read"? And here we have some more buttfuck terrible reasoning: On November 24 2012 05:20 risk.nuke wrote: We may not know for sure syllos alignment but as long as occams razor says syllo is town then that speaks in chronicles favor. If my vote on sandroba is useless, is that why you're so attracted to it? Birds of a feather flock. TC voted for Syllo when Syllo was building momentum and everybody else was losing it. You are a good player. You KNOW there would be scum on a wagon like that. Why is TC's complete throwaway reason a town tell? There's some other incongruencies: On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: Scummy post from a scummy player. <snip> Pretty much the first mention of Kitaman in the game. While I don't think Kita's case was particularly strong and risk is justified in ridiculing it, I am surprised about him asserting that Kita is "scummy". This feels a lot like an OMGUS to just discredit the case off the bat. A case being wrong/bad doesn't make the poster scummy, it makes him wrong/bad. We never actually get to know why Kita was "scummy". What had Kita done at the time? In fact, for someone claiming a scum read on Kita, there is remarkably little interaction between the two. There is no explanation of the read, no attempt to learn more about Kita, nothing. Risk, why did you think Kita was scum? Do you still think so? Why? Further questions: Why did you want to be party leader on D3? I understand the "party was bad" reasoning, but regardless of alignment, you have enough brains to know you had 0 town cred and would never ever get elected in a million years. The decision to try to run just seems really really strange. I can think of a "desperate scum" motivation though. And given that scum was in a pretty bad shape after D1 and D2, desperation is a decent guess of the scum state of mind at that point. Your reason for not wanting to take Dieno along sounds incredibly forced. You honestly expect us to believe you thought that Dieno's HP would play a bigger role than the fact that he is about as close to confirmed town as we can get without flips? I know you have already been asked this by someone (Djodref I believe), but your answers were thoroughly unsatisfactory. Try again. | ||
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On November 29 2012 00:11 Hopeless1der wrote: Nameclaim: Toma the Adventurer. I was screwing around with potential mechanics related to my role. Kind of how you have no idea what your abilities do until you use them, I thought there might be more to my role than just my ability. If you thought you could figure out what they do beforehand, wouldn't you try? Hrmm, I have no clue what your name has to do with that. You had already claimed you were some sort of explorer. Whether that is blue, black or red remains to be discovered. I have to say the claim comes at an unusual time. What in your role gives you the impression that there is more to be discovered? My role makes it very clear that I cannot know what my abilities do until I use them. | ||
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On November 29 2012 05:44 Keirathi wrote: [/big]Good god no. Don't be fucking stupid Hapa. We already know that scum had a bus driver. H1 claimed an ability that makes him completely untargetable. We have no idea what kind of protective roles scum could have. By making that claim, you've basically guaranteed that they'll use everything at their disposal to keep him alive, and waste what...2? 3? 4-5? town abilities in the process. It may have been a good idea if you didn't scream for everyone to do it, but now its just god awful retarded. But now that you've called it retarded, it's an amazing idea again. Wheeeeeeeefom! | ||
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He was also weirdly upset about the whole needing a vote thingy. I'm still inclined to believe it. That could be some free damage. | ||
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On November 29 2012 05:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah targeting toad with everything we have is dumb. I'm sure there will be a lynch within the next two cycles. We know nothing of scum defensive capabilities. I will happily throw my lot in with town and use something that looks like it could be offensive on Toad. You guys want that to happen? | ||
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On November 29 2012 05:54 risk.nuke wrote: Should be noted. Syllos own contributions to the mason circle was joining it. Contribute zero. Outing it. *Clap Clap* If he doesn't trust the circle then why would he keep it a secret? Also, good job on the lurk. Where's your answers to my questions? | ||
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Am I the only one who prefers the item to go to Keirathi? The whole Masamune thing sounds unlikely and Dienosore may have been healed, but still seems a likely target for scum to hit anyway, being one of the power roles and all. No need to make him likelier by giving him an item. I guess the advantage is that town prot roles also know where to aim. As for watcher/trackers, Syllo claimed roleblocker/tracker. So there's a minimum of 1 in the game. | ||
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On November 29 2012 06:23 Clarity_nl wrote: I agree, although cult is kind of a dumb word for this situation. Oh? How do you know it's not a cult? | ||
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On November 29 2012 05:59 risk.nuke wrote: Because your question was useless. Kitaman accomplishments was a dubious troll campaign and you question why I was under the impression he was scummy. Okay, so why didn't you explain that when someone asked you about it at the time? Your behaviour this game is not making any sense. At least your buddyness with GK might be explained by you sharing the mason channel. Did you have this from the start of the game? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Marv's case] + On November 25 2012 02:48 marvellosity wrote: kitaman27 There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign. Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote: THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba! ![[image loading]](http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/17971151/2/stock-illustration-17971151-thanksgiving-day-in-america.jpg) I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks Party More to come. Stay tuned! So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature? His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this. Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote: I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv: I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nuke Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbig His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4sta I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time. His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum: Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum? + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote: I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote: He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched. He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here: In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here. For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has. There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember: Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game. To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum. ##Vote: kitaman27 Having said all this I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch.All in all, this makes more sense from a 3P if he has to be included in a party (although my own wincon does not indicate that this is a possibility). However, the 3P vibe gets stronger: Kita has a real obsession with 3P: On November 24 2012 10:55 kitaman27 wrote: So let me get this straight. You knew a person was after your food, so in order to increase your chances of survival, you decide to role claim that you are the chef? Could you walk me through your thought process? To understand correctly, you are claiming third party, but seek to work with town to achieve your objectives? Strange, because Drazerk never claimed 3P, although it was easy to get a 3P vibe from him due to his posting in D1. I had a 3P vibe on Drazerk, but it's only natural because I was wondering whether there was anymore 3P around, being one myself. Then Kita gets accused of being 3P. His defense is rather strange: On November 27 2012 02:47 kitaman27 wrote: oh god. I swear this happens to me every game. Arkham City: "Kita, we know that Palmar and Kurumi essentially roleclaimed third party in the thread, but we think you're the batman!" Aperature: "Oh look, Kita killed 4 scum and presented cases against three others. He has to be third party x20." Storm: "Kita is obviously a hider, but since he can't possibly be scum, he's a serial killing hider!" I'm not totes, but I can confirm that the theme of today's game involves throwing beanbags, so Norstein Bekkler is definitely the one targeting me with these abilities. I claimed a shot on Cave day one providing evidence of a role not related to the games. I presented thoughts on four different individuals on day two. Just because my filter isn't 15 pages doesn't mean I have less content. Marv is the town hero for presenting a busted case against myself, we have people like nuke and cave who haven't shared thoughts on anyone, and I'm the one not interested in scum hunting? No. I'll admit I haven't been as active yesterday, which is mainly because I don't think the town requires much guidance this cycle. The selection of the first two individuals is pretty straight forward and I don't have a scum read on any of the proposed members, even if I'd rather see myself included. Could someone walk me through the reason for clarity? I recall that he had some night interaction with Marv's role, but his 17 page filter is too much to go through in my 20 minutes I have. Back to work -_- He acts like the kicked dog as defense. Rather than pointing out townie reasons for his behaviour, he whinges about previous games in which he was unjustly called 3P. That's not a defense of why he's not 3rd party this game. He has been playing very much like a 3rd party this game. The final piece of evidence is that his whole activity around my claim was trying to get me to reveal my FAKEclaim. Not my real name, but my fakeclaim. It made no sense. But if he's worried that he has a similar fakeclaim and I will blow his cover, then it does: + Show Spoiler [Kita wants my fakeclaim] + On November 28 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: The game was worded so that I had to guess who would be elected or lynched, which is why I tend to think it was a targeted ability and not something built into the game. Acro's role claim is the most important reveal since my last post so I'll go into this first. First off, we treat Acro as an anti-town player. He claims to have a different win condition than us and refuses to reveal the details of this win condition. We cannot confirm he is third party. We only know that his alignment was outed by an investigative role and that he felt claiming third party was in his best interest. We don't have confirmation that he actually used a role check on day two. Keep in mind he revealed the role of a player who already had a scum check on him. As a survivalist, there is little reason to attract extra attention. By revealing his investigative role, he only made himself more of a threat to mafia night hits. Now look at the timing of Acro's claim: Acro explains things well enough here. He was in no danger of being lynched this cycle. He was in no danger of being lynched next cycle. So as a third party player, why would he open himself up to two extra cycles of night actions if there is a player that is trying to kill him? Why not claim three cycles from now? Currently, I feel the town has given Acro far too much leeway with his secrets. He no longer gets to make his own decisions. We get to make them for him. Acro claims to have been provided a fake claim. He needs to reveal this fake claim now so we confirm it isn't counterclaimed and that no other player is able to use this claim later on. Acro needs to role claim. If he truly is a third party player who is being targeted by another player, I'm sure they've already put two and two together. Hiding this information isn't going to keep him safe. If he wants to cooperate with town he needs to reveal his role name, his role, and his win conditions. He no longer has the luxury of keeping these things secret after claiming for survival. If he refuses, we should assume he doesn't have town's best interest at heart. (Please don't shoot me for standing up to you :p ) For the team selection I propose: Dieno, syllo, clarity, TC I don't really feel I have to go into reasons for the first three players. Dieno hasn't had a chance for leadership yet and is requesting it, which is why I prefer him as leader over syllo. TC now has revealed two separate investigative checks that have benefited town. With Acro feeling necessary to claim, we can confirm the legitimacy of his check. I see no reason why someone like phagga or hap should be included over him. In the event that the mafia has the ability to day vig or exclude one of the players in this group of four players, we should probably have a backup, which should be iamperfection based upon his healing of marv, which hasn't been counterclaimed. First I need to reveal my fakeclaim. Second I need to roleclaim. Note the order. I tell him I won't claim. He's perfectly happy dropping that, but he is adamant about: On November 28 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Of course you won't. Props for even trying to discredit my alignment in your refusal Lets start simple and reveal the fake claim you were given. On November 28 2012 12:52 kitaman27 wrote: In the event that you are mafia, revealing the fake claim means that the mafia team would have one claim to work with late game. meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. That's right, the fake claim. With a really flimsy excuse. As if I wouldn't be willing to blow someone's cover with my fake claim if they ever tried that? Well yes, I would... and that's exactly what Kita is worried about. So, Kita, want to claim your identity? | ||
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On November 29 2012 07:29 phagga wrote: Didn't acro already take damage? And does this only damage Toad? I took 50 damage. I suspect that ability is enough to kill Toad. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Dienosore | ||
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On November 29 2012 07:38 CaveJohnson wrote: You know I've been setting this up all day with the passing remark to your HP It is a bit more effort than you usually put in. | ||
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On November 29 2012 07:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Phagga are you saying that any ability that is used on you, you can use afterwards? Phagga claiming Golem? I just had to fight that bugger in the game, he was tough. I lost. Got thrown in jail. | ||
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Lets hope this works out | ||
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Keep in mind, that Keirathi also claimed a low influence value. Also, for those doing the bookkeeping, I took 75 damage. | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:55 Promethelax wrote: my giant case. Read it. Tell me your thinks about it. My thoughts: your giant case could use spoiler tags. It also won't change my vote. I'll bother figuring out GK for myself tomorrow. | ||
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I should probably leave this until postgame, but don't try to blame the hosts for this. They made it very clear what would happen if potential party leaders derp it up. On November 22 2012 04:20 Mementoss wrote: Important Host Note: Please if you feel that you have any chance of being elected party leader include the (3) party members to take along with you with your PM for the night actions. Even if you don't think you will be elected, you can include it cause, you never know. If the party leader doesn't chose (3) party members the party leader will take some punishment regardless of success or failure. The (3) party members will be chosen at random in this case. This allows the party to be chosen for the elected party leader, even if they are not available at the time the hosts need the party members. Reminder: This game follows a 47 hour combined day/night cycle with 1 hour no posting action resolution period. | ||
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So, risk, given GK's claim, that makes the mason chat yours. Why did you invite GK? | ||
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On November 29 2012 15:09 goodkarma wrote: Well, I'm done for today I'll check back tomorrow. Repeating your same arguements and me repeating what I've already said in response over and over isn't going to get us anywhere. There's a few things you could do to validate my claim.: 1) I already claimed my target in Mason QT. Wait until tomorrow to see if my claim checks out. 2) Bring me along in a party with three "confirmed town." If you can fail a mission and still get a lynch, clearly the consequences aren't that terribad... And what's more, I'm town so you won't even have to worry about that in the first place... 3) Continue to angrily OMGUS me, waste vigi shots and/or a lynch, and be down one more town. Having a claim that is verifiable, this is a very stupid option. Point 1: your vigi claim is neither here nor there. Sandro's flip proves scum has role-based KP powers. That means scum could equally well claim a vig hit. Especially on a dubious target like Drazerk. You saying scum has no reason to hit Drazerk? I beg to differ. SnB+me really really really wanted Drazerk dead in Caller game. Now that may have been a bit of a personal vendetta, but Drazerk has proven to be OP in themed games regardless of his alignment. He acts like a complete idiot (he isn't one, just acts that way) and plays the game as if it is his personal playground. As scum, the motivation to kill him is pretty much the same as town's: he is thoroughly unpredictable and that can be pretty scary. Point 2: I don't know what you're using to support this conclusion. We had 2 party selections before the lynch. We succeeded in one and failed the other. We now have a "hidden lynch". It makes me suspect effects like pardoner and doublevoters are in the game, and these effects might have been outted explicitly in a votecount, but not in its current format. I would NOT conclude that we get a lynch regardless. Other than the possibility for lynch-tampering mechanics I fail to see the problem of the lack of a votecount. Sure, it's a bit of a hassle, but as long as everybody has to vote in the voting thread, we can all keep tabs on what's happening. So... taking GK along on a party and running the risk of a failed party (note that I still have not delved into his filter, so the only info I have to go on is my null read from D2 and my rough impressions as I was reading the thread since then)? Bad idea. Same as taking me along D3 was a bad idea. I honestly have no clue what my HSM is. Greymist left the possibility open that I count for scum. The "I count for 0"-possibility was also left open. I said not to take me because we don't know what it takes to succeed at an event and I want town to succeed. With Keirathi (low success modifier) and me (potentially 0 or negative success modifier) both on the party, it is possible that GK is town and just shit-outta-luck, but I see no reason to take him on another party and possibly have that one fail as well. @GK: I am still going to go through your filter, but I don't recall ever bumping on something you wrote and thinking "damn, GK is town", while there have been plenty of red flags. Does that point directly to scum? No. However, it definitely does not point to town. Step it up. When 3rd party players are looking more townie than you, you're either doing it wrong or are scum. Prove to us it's the former rather than the latter. | ||
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Anybody want to own up to dealing damage to me? I really doubt it was scum: they know I'm not one of them, so have no reason to mistrust my survivor claim and that removes me from their wincon. Scum shots on me are wasted shots. That leaves town or someone who needs me dead. If it's town, just tell me, I won't be mad. Otherwise I will assume someone needs me dead and take precautions tomorrow night. I have something that sounds like it could be a paranoid gunman ability. I think it'll be fun. Want to play chicken with me, mr X? @Kita, did you take any damage? I promise I didn't shoot you. | ||
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On November 29 2012 22:10 risk.nuke wrote: And get real. Karma being on this party tells you nothing about his alignment because regardless of if he is scum or town the mission would fail. It's riddiculous how you (acro and prom) hold it against him as if there was minor chance he could have effected the outcome. Do you even read my posts? I say exactly that... You also STILL haven't answered any of my questions. You say 1 of the questions I ask is stupid and use that as a reason to ignore everything else. Go read it and answer it. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [earlier postº [QUOTE] + On November 29 2012 00:44 Acrofales wrote: On November 22 2012 21:40 risk.nuke wrote: I don't know what you are talking about Acro. As for Oats, He made a tunnelcase on clarity and when it didn't work he tried the yell higher approach. I also didn't like that he voted toad who's notoriously difficult to read but that is a lesser concern. My main problem with oats is he hasn't really done anything in actual terms to distinguish himself as town while he's playing one of the easier ways to play as scum. Furthermore I get the feeling of two sides of him. One calm and considerate and one yell as high as you can side. Right now I don't have an abundant of trust for syllogism and sandroba wants to send oats. I have townreads goodkarma and Djodref. Hrmmm. What was your town read of GK based on at this point? In fact, explain Djodref as well. So far, you have managed to say you didn't have a town read on Oats (which I agreed with at the time, so I didn't think too much into it, but suspicious minds would say you were trying to manipulate town off the party)... and you didn't trust Syllo, without any further explanation. You then throw a seemingly random town read on GK out there. That is what I meant with trust, btw. Your usual meta is to be aggressive and angry at everybody. Your friendliness towards GK feels strange. This is how you justify it a couple of hours later: On November 23 2012 00:45 risk.nuke wrote: I like how he post. I feel I can follow his thoughts. I feel I need something more to justify this weak-ass vote on a weak-ass candidate. I am not understanding your thought process this game, which is somewhat unusual, because you're usually far more transparent. Then comes the whole Sandroba ordeal. There are two ways of reading this: a townie who think Sandroba might be scum, but isn't sure... and scum waiting for Sandro to give him any reasonable opportunity to not bus his scumbuddy. Not much more to say on this issue. However, this is interesting: On November 24 2012 05:01 risk.nuke wrote: <snip> Chronicler I didn't like his initial plan in the terms of that I didn't agree with it. On the other hand "IF" he is town I don't feel the plan was beneficial for the mafiateam either so from that perspective I can see what he was going for. A lot of people make up their own plans because they like the sense of leadership. I don't think his candidacy plan is alignment revealing. I especially liked this post (clicky) from him, even more so in hindsight of syllos sucess. I am slightly leaning town on him. Post in question: On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight. This was one of the posts that set alarm bells off in my mind (and I believe some other players' minds too). I am thus completely and utterly confused: why did this give you a town read on him? How the hell do you go from "Chronicler provides a bad excuse to drop his plan and sheep the majority" to "town read"? And here we have some more buttfuck terrible reasoning: On November 24 2012 05:20 risk.nuke wrote: We may not know for sure syllos alignment but as long as occams razor says syllo is town then that speaks in chronicles favor. If my vote on sandroba is useless, is that why you're so attracted to it? Birds of a feather flock. TC voted for Syllo when Syllo was building momentum and everybody else was losing it. You are a good player. You KNOW there would be scum on a wagon like that. Why is TC's complete throwaway reason a town tell? There's some other incongruencies: On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: Scummy post from a scummy player. <snip> Pretty much the first mention of Kitaman in the game. While I don't think Kita's case was particularly strong and risk is justified in ridiculing it, I am surprised about him asserting that Kita is "scummy". This feels a lot like an OMGUS to just discredit the case off the bat. A case being wrong/bad doesn't make the poster scummy, it makes him wrong/bad. We never actually get to know why Kita was "scummy". What had Kita done at the time? In fact, for someone claiming a scum read on Kita, there is remarkably little interaction between the two. There is no explanation of the read, no attempt to learn more about Kita, nothing. Risk, why did you think Kita was scum? Do you still think so? Why? Further questions: Why did you want to be party leader on D3? I understand the "party was bad" reasoning, but regardless of alignment, you have enough brains to know you had 0 town cred and would never ever get elected in a million years. The decision to try to run just seems really really strange. I can think of a "desperate scum" motivation though. And given that scum was in a pretty bad shape after D1 and D2, desperation is a decent guess of the scum state of mind at that point. Your reason for not wanting to take Dieno along sounds incredibly forced. You honestly expect us to believe you thought that Dieno's HP would play a bigger role than the fact that he is about as close to confirmed town as we can get without flips? I know you have already been asked this by someone (Djodref I believe), but your answers were thoroughly unsatisfactory. Try again. Given your reluctance to read, I will compile this post in bite-size gulps for you: 1. Why did you have a town read on GK during d1? 2. Please explain how the post you linked from TC gave you a town read on him? 3. Are you maintaining that Kita posting a trolly campaign made him scum in your mind? 4. Why did you want to be party leader D3? Why did you think this would be constructive? | ||
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For those who haven't figured it out yet: derping is just plain stupid as town, but makes sense as scum: a random party means you wash your hands from any responsibility for the composition of the party and a decent chance of it failing (better than if you're forced to take people everybody thinks are townies anyway). Now given Dieno's playstyle I think it was a 1-time derp. I cannot imagine a townie didn't learn his lesson from that debacle, so if we still think Dieno might get Masamune, lets vote him in. | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:09 syllogism wrote: Some things I learned while in the mason QT He says he is Gato and he claims this in the first post of the QT. The QT flavor says the tent has a crystal ball. He has only recruited people who he thinks are town, although he also claims there was some mutual distrust between GK and him until some undisclosed point. He claims he thought GK might have roleblocked due to his fearsome mason recruiting ability. He says he recruited me to get me interested in the game or something. He says he can attack people in the QT, but apparently thinks it's better to invite people who he considers town rather than people who might be mafia. Hrmmm. I'm not sure how Gato having a mason chat makes any sense at all. So far the abilities claimed and the ones confirmed at least make some sense with regards to their character. On the other hand, Gato is a really weird fakeclaim, because he could have figured that bit out for himself. It is also a particularly weird use of the mason chat. Being able to attack people in the QT and then selecting town reads is... well... I think you got recruited to a cult. Have fun. | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:19 iamperfection wrote: what time period would we be in next jump? If this is the bit where Lavos crashes and leaves us with a time gate, the next step is Antiquity. However, we have skipped quite a bit of the game (the whole fight with Magus). We might skip antiquity and go straight to the future to get us a time machine. | ||
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Also, I have no idea what risk is at the moment. - A cult leader (3P) makes sense. His choices seem strange, though. Why pick a high profile, high knowledge player like Syllo if your true intention is to sacrifice them to Cthulhu (or Lavos)? - A scum makes sense. He has no need to include his scumbuddies in this QT, because he already has a QT with them. The main question I have here is whether this is feasible from a balance point of view and what the ultimate purpose of such a QT would be? Can he damage everybody in there or something? - A town has some justification. He has two things he can do with his mason: communicate with fellow townies, or recruit and damage scum. He picked the former. The problem is that I feel the latter is a far more powerful option. Also, if Syllo is to be believed, his behaviour in the QT has been beyond peculiar. Also, his reason for picking Dieno makes no sense, because Dieno has already told us who he is. What was risk expecting Dieno to talk about "in secret"? Especially as the QT isn't modconfirmed townies. @Dienosore and GK: do you find Syllo accurately represented earlier convos in the QT? | ||
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##Lynch: Toadesstern ##Party Leader: Keirathi | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:34 syllogism wrote: Acro: did you ask mementoss that as well? He hasn't replied to my inquiry yet. I asked him if posts said in blue can be relied to be true and then elaborate as to why I would like to know. I did not. His stating in large bold letters to not ask him why there are two votes at the same time made me think it would be pointless. | ||
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Why GK, Keirathi, Syllo and Dieno. Why that order? What is it you're trying to accomplish in your QT? Why claim you can damage people in there and then only invite town reads? And while you're answering questions, answer the ones I have now posted twice already. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:58 GreYMisT wrote: It was brought to my attention that once again I am forgetful Today You also have the pleasure of voting for tomorrows party leader. There will be a special event tomorrow with 2 stages of in thread voting, thus the party leader and his party must be selected today! Is this real-life tomorrow or ingame tomorrow? The countdown seems to be ending tonight, which is the middle of the cycle... unless the cycle is suddenly cut short, of course. That would also give a reason for the countdown: to give us ample warning that there is something big set to happen and we don't know exactly when. Best to get your votes in sooner rather than later, just in case. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:02 GreYMisT wrote: Mementoss mentioned about 2 pages back. I am just clarifying further. You are voting for both a lynch as well as a party leader for tomorrow's event. What happens if the elected party leader is killed before the event? Seems to me we probably need a backup. I suggest Keirathi as first choice (with preferred group the D1 party) and Clarity as second. Best to even include a 3rd (Syllo or Oats?) just to ensure Toad's single vote does not cause havoc. Also, I won't be switching to GK until I've read his filter (or probably after); I have started a couple of times, but it is long and makes heavy use of run-on sentences like this one, which means that it is really not easy to read. In any case, I think I prefer a risk.nuke lynch. He is being extremely uncooperative. Combine that with something that sounds like a bogus roleclaim and a really dodgy policy for his masonQT selection. A tent with a crystal ball makes me think of the prophet. Not sure he has a tent, but he is a fortune teller. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:14 risk.nuke wrote: I asked grey about it. It was ONLY flavor. As for the other reason. I revealed MY name in the qt because unless mafia have some sort of spy ability I would have full control of who could see it. YOU outed MY name to the THREAD without even asking my opinion about it. You've did nothing constructive when you joined the qt. You could had tried to interrogate me about reads if you believed I was mafia but you were to bloody lazy and got pissed when I called you a little girl bitch so you decided to out everything for no gain.  If this is you being a contributing, constructive town member, you're doing it wrong. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Acro wants to kill me over confirmed scum. I see, you claimed to be pro-town third party right? Dafuq? I want to lynch toad. In the case toad is pardoned, I prefer you get killed over GK at the moment. I prefer EITHER of you over Syllo, who would currently be set for lynching if Toad is pardoned and the pardoner works the way people seem to think it does. Learn2read. For the umpteenbillionth time. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:20 risk.nuke wrote: Learn to write properly. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/800px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg) | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:28 Toadesstern wrote: pardoner doesn't work that way. If someone gets pardoned there will be a no-lynch. Sincerly, your friendly neighbourhoud-Toad You're right of course. We should take the confirmed scum's word for it. How could we be so stupid to think that it might work otherwise and take some small precautions? | ||
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Lynch: Toad: Clarity, Oats, H1, Djodreff, Adam, Syllo: Toad GK: Prom, phagga Party: Clarity: Clarity, Oats, H1, Djodreff, Adam, Keirathi: Acro, phagga Toad: Toad Syllo: VE Set to be lynched: Toad Set to be leader: Clarity No vote: Kita, Drazerk, Hapa, Zbo, iamp, chronicler, SnB, GK, Dino, keirathi, risk | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote: I think taking you on the party would be the dumbest idea in the world seeing as you claimed you had 24 hp. Even that might be false however since I believe Prom(?) claimed he dealt 50 damage to you and you lived. There is definitely merit in discussing the rollback but it's hard to believe the things you say after your hp claim is now in question. Why you confuse the smurfs? Drazerk was the one claiming 24 HP. I believe he was lying and trying to serve as lightning rod for scum kills. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:46 Promethelax wrote: Risen: why did you decide to smurf this game? What were you hoping to gain by that? Syllo: can you please give us some of the posts from the QT which you feel are damning of Risk. I had suspicions it was Risen from his behaviour. Given his meta, I can see the reason for him wanting to smurf. Does it matter? Will it give you a clue about his alignment? If not: postgame. | ||
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Syllo, you agree? Get your party PM ready, and don't you dare herpaderp it up like a certain extinct reptile. ##unvote ##Party Leader Syllo | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:58 syllogism wrote: I'm fine with that, although I haven't actually read anything about TC's 1-shot yet. Yeah, me either. But I believe he's town and he claims his 1-shot is awesome for town. My reasoning came more from the other direction: I think it's safer to take 4 players who have no funky HSM and don't claim to be at low health. Taking Keirathi and Dino seems like a recipe for disaster, given that if scum shoots Dino, then you're left with 2 + a low success modifier. Could very well fail the event. Scum might have enough KP to off Dino and someone else, making just Dino a risky choice as well. Scum probably has enough KP to off 1 person in the party (see what they did to Marv), making taking Keirathi alone a risky choice. If losing even one member of the party leads to a failure, then we're royally fucked in any case, so it doesn't matter what party you take. That makes me think 3 townie townies is probably enough to succeed. That leaves taking a wild unknown. TC seems the logical choice. Add the claim of the 1-shot and it seems like a sweet deal. However, it does blow through a 1-shot rollback, which could be used to heal Dieno for 450 (I think that's what he claimed) damage, or to save for a future calamity. TC: do you honestly think your 1-shot ability is worth the rollback? | ||
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On November 30 2012 03:02 TheChronicler wrote: I didn't sign up for cold war? And I just didn't want to be risen anymore. Earlier this game someone said there was no way i was risen and I was like thank god. Yeah, I remember that. I was like "strange, I think he might very well be Risen". I do agree that your general play has improved a lot. At the very least we are not (yet) lynching the claimed DT this game | ||
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On November 30 2012 03:10 Keirathi wrote: Does no one else find it strange that Acro voted me for party leader an hour and a half ago, then 15 minutes ago decided that I shouldn't even be in the party? That's a huge flip-flop with zero reasoning :o Dude, do you read the thread? | ||
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On November 30 2012 03:21 Keirathi wrote: Of course I do. And I'm looking at your filter right now. Between the time that you voted me, and the time that you excluded me, you didn't talk any about this HP or HSM stuff. Then bam, just changed your mind. And called the HSM stuff "shenanigans" without any reasoning whatsoever. Anyways, I find it hard to believe that an all townie team can lose an event under any situation, no matter how many people are still alive. That kind of system just doesn't make sense. But I guess it could be a possibility. 1. The longer explanation is what was in my head when I made my post putting Syllo forward. Between my vote for you and my vote for Syllo, Greymist explained what happened if the party leader (and because of his answer, really any party member) was killed between the vote and the event. It made me realize I hadn't thought things through: we have a delay this time, allowing scum to act between election and event. 2. Why do you think an all-townie event will always succeed? Don't you think the number of participants will be important too? Random setup speculation incoming (freely interpreted from risk.nuke's post on the same): lets say we need 3 HSM points to win an event. Normal townies give 1 point each. Low HSM townies give 0.5. 3P gives 0. Scum gives -1. Party with 4 townies: 4 points, yippee, success. Party with 3 regular townies and a low HSM townie: 3.5 points, success. Party with 3 townies and a 3P: 3 points, phew, success by the skin of our teeth. Party with 3 townies and a scum: 2 points, DOOM Party with 2 regular townies, a low HSM townie and a 3P: 2.5 points, DOOM If someone gets shot, then his HSM no longer counts towards the total, bringing it nearer to DOOM. Now we have no way of confirming the event works like this without failing more events, which seems like a pretty damned stupid idea, so it is mere speculation. | ||
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1 On November 24 2012 04:59 goodkarma wrote: Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own. I highly suspect not all party members are present, in order to give scum some safe fakeclaims. How did this not cross your mind, especially as Kita had already brought it up early in the game? Getting an inkling of a non-town mindset from this justification, as I would always suspect scum safeclaims. Please expand how simply claiming "Frog" allowed you to go from suspecting that he was deliberately shitting up the thread to one of your strongest town reads. At best this seems gullible, at worst a scum justification. 2 D2 scumhunting. No real questions here, but more a general observation. GK seems to be taking the easy way out on a number of occasions. Most specifically I find his behaviour regarding Sandroba and Toad puzzling: There's two reasonable justifications for his behaviour re: Sandroba. The first is that GK is town, wanted Sandroba to prove he was town and that ultimately never happened. The second is that he parked his vote on a bus, but really didn't want to bus. A suspicious mind definitely sees the latter shining through in the tone of GK's posts: + Show Spoiler [GK on Sandroba] + On November 24 2012 05:39 goodkarma wrote: @Z-Boson: Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote: Wat? But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change. I find this especially damning because earlier on he wanted Sandroba on his party, because the few posts Sandro had made gave him a strong town read. While I will not underestimate Syllo's influence in this lynch, I do not get the feeling from this post that GK even cares about discovering Sandroba's true alignment. On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote: I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven. I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit... I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman This is just incredibly disingenious and an insult to Sandroba. I know I've said this before, but I cannot believe a relatively new player like GK can honestly think this. Once again, it seems like an invented justification, rather than a sincere thought. Regarding Toad: I do not get the feeling GK is trying to discover Toad's alignment. He is willfully ignoring the main point of the case. I am having a hard time deciding whether this is indicative of alignment due to my own involvement at this point. However, I don't see any reasons in his filter for thinking Sandroba is more likely to flip scum. I just see reasons for not switching the vote. This makes sense from a scum viewpoint if Toad does indeed flip scum (which I do not doubt he will): better to stick with the wagon you've already supported and look decisive in your bus. At the end of the ordeal I don't feel GK has been particularly decisive in the vote. It could be a scumster hoping for a way out and never being offered one (although he declined the Chronicler lynch). The alternate explanation is a townie who is not too convinced in his own reads and prefers to sheep Syllo than me. This is the way he eventually justifies his vote, and I find that an acceptable explanation. However, the lack of conviction is something that troubles me a lot. The last-minute switch to Toad because of a modkill tells me absolutely nothing. Finally, there is this: On November 25 2012 05:49 goodkarma wrote: This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad. I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me. Scumslip? Or a townie just being far too confident in his town read? This has been pointed out by Keirathi at the time and the response was what I would expect. In general, I find this type of "scumslip" to be bad tells: townies screw this up way too often for it to be reliable. 3 During D3 you were advocating coordinating kill actions, in order to take out scum: + Show Spoiler [coordinate shots] + On November 26 2012 14:10 goodkarma wrote: I'm like 12 pages behind right now, and catching up. I figured I'd bring this particular quote up right now. Assuming everyone has HP similar to the two players that have flipped, several of the claimed damaging abilities are nowhere close to enough to kill off a player. As such, it would be worth coordinating a target that all of us devote our efforts toward for this night and all future nights. I'm under the impression that it's highly unlikely scum have a second busser, so even if scum know what's coming I doubt there's much they could do about it. What does everyone think? On November 26 2012 14:59 goodkarma wrote: @Acro: What do you think of this plan for coordinating vigi shots? Since so far it looks like no one is going to die without multiple people shooting him, it would make sense for us to more actively discuss who is shot each night in addition to scumreads, no? Yet at the end of the day you advocate the exact opposite approach. What changed your mind? + Show Spoiler [don't shoot toad] + On November 26 2012 23:56 goodkarma wrote: So you're claiming a vigi role? All right... I would say that Toad is a low priority target, as in, please don't shoot him. From the two flips we've seen, and based off the abilities that have claimed that can do damage, there is no reason to think we could one-shot Toad. So targeting people we won't be able to get to lynch anytime soon is definitely a better option. Now to be a bit of a pessimist: There's a reason that people lurk. Maybe they're busy, or maybe they just don't give a shit about this game. Whatever the reason, I wouldn't expect vigis this game to motivate them to change their gameplay. Especially with an uncoordinated assault against multiple lurkers that will take multiple turns to have any chance at killing someone... I have one question for you: If you could narrow the lurker field down to 2-3 targets, who would you propose that town target and why? 4 Lack of scumhunting. GK pretty much breezes through days 3 and 4 without doing any serious scumhunting. While this is somewhat justified by the lack of a lynch and the confirmation of Toad as scum, it is definitely not winning him any townie points on my scumometer. His defense of Prom seems genuine and well thought-out. However, his defense of H1 does not. This is the FIRST mention of either SnB or H1 in GK's filter ALL GAME: On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote: This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious... And immediately afterwards: On November 28 2012 08:12 goodkarma wrote: @Djo: While you're here: StrongandBig is scum. Please discuss. Whence came this extremely strong scumread on SnB? Why was he never mentioned before? More importantly, why the town read on H1? You said yourself that we needed to figure out who was scum between TC, H1 and myself. Why the town read on H1? Even with my 3P claim, there seems to be no justification. I asked for clarification at the time and got no response. I'll just ask again: explain your town read on H1. 4 The list post. I actually like him backing down off SnB. Deluded townies going apeshit happens. However the list post... I don't actually mind list posts when done properly. However, this list is full of NULL reads and things that say you point to town without explaining ANY of it. It is so easy to fake this as scum, that it makes red flags appear all over the place. Redo your list post, this time explaining why you have the read you have. Also, explain your read on risk.nuke: imho the most notable absentee from that list. Your QT has been blown wide open, so you can explain it now.My conclusions so far I am getting a very marginal town read on GK. It's perfectly possible that between Keir and me the party failed. That makes GK an unfortunate casualty. The way he has been playing is definitely not strong town, and I really want to see him step it up, but I don't get a clear scum vibe from him either. There are, imho, scummier candidates who could serve as the "second" lynch target. GK: please answer the questions all the same. Explaining your thought process can only help you, if you are in fact town. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:41 GreYMisT wrote: Bit late but 0 You bastard. That means there is some pattern :O Well, either that, or it was completely random and planned to hit in the middle of cycle 5, something we speculated on about 1 1/2 cycles ago. Either way, large amounts of hate. Also, where is Lavos?? ##get on dactyl and fly the bejesus away ... again. Watch Greymist post -1 at some point around 12 hours away from now. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:44 kitaman27 wrote: Muahaha Kita wins! :o Kita drops into the thread with useless information after >24 hours of absence? If that's what winning entails, you'd better role+alignment claim. | ||
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Add that to the fact that I also have my reservations about you, and we are really getting somewhere. I read you as marginally green on D2, but all the reasons I was extremely suspicious of you at the end of D1 are coming crashing back with a vengeance. Also, you are claiming "I took damage and didn't get healed". Clarity is claiming "you either took no damage, or got healed". One of you is lying, or you got targeted by a bus driver/something else dodgy. Your trying to yell over it that we should not look at you, but at Phagga is making all the alarm bells in my head go off at the same time. I am looking at you. Town should probably also be looking at you. I find you a very unlikely target for a bus, I think Clarity is not lying. That leaves you lying. Convince me you were not. | ||
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On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote: ^_^ I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_- <snip> On November 25 2012 10:05 GreYMisT wrote: 10 On November 30 2012 09:41 GreYMisT wrote: Bit late but 0 On November 30 2012 09:44 kitaman27 wrote: Muahaha Kita wins! :o [/QUOTE] Any correlation? Methinks there's a 3rd party screwing around in this game and it's not me. | ||
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On November 30 2012 10:02 Hapahauli wrote: What part of this isn't scummy? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=254#5075 Or this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=253#5045 Please rationalize his stance on CJ from a town perspective. Good luck with that. Well the shitty thing is that there's no way for me to prove my stance here short of screenshotting my PMs. I told you exactly what happened on my end, and as far as I'm concerned that is that. I was talking about your original case. There was 0 mention of his shoddy vote on Drazerk except in passing. That was the case that took you "so long to make" and everybody was ignoring. I had a little mark on Phagga for doing noting D2 except placing a throwaway vote on Drazerk. Looking back, that vote looks even worse in retrospect, so bringing that up is good. However, your first case was just plain terrible. There was very little that requires a scum perspective to explain his D1. In fact, I had him pegged as a slight town read after D1. The "bussing" of Sandroba also is a null read. He was the umpteenth person to sheep Syllo for no-to-very-little reasoning. I have explained what I think of Sandroba votes for no-to-little-reasoning in both my discussion of risk.nuke and my discussion of GK. I feel no need to do so again. I do feel that CJ was complete and utter lynch bait D2 (as Drazerk often is) and scum could easily jump on him (assuming he's not scum himself, which is always a possibility until the endgame post is made or he dies and flips). It's like any other "easy" mislynch that scum like to push, like Kush, Grush, BM, Bluelightz or Risen (yes, I went there). Therefore a Drazerk vote with no reasoning whatsoever is pretty bad. Of course, town also vote for the easy lynchbait, which is why they are so easy for scum: they automatically draw town votes with their play. + Show Spoiler [Drazerk history] + The main difference between Drazerk and the rest of that list is that Drazerk actually doesn't get mislynched (or lynched at all for that matter). He has some magic quality that makes him look terrible and then slip off everybody's scumometer. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: I've been reading and writing up a post for the past two hours. You can complain afterwards. That's 3 hours now. Better be one helluva post. | ||
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On November 30 2012 17:42 syllogism wrote: Acro or whoever can you stop beating up the poor frog. I don't see what's the rush, just let mafia finish him off Not me, officer. I believe him when he says his wincon is with town. He also has nothing to do with my own wincon. I have no reason to shoot him. Why do you think the kp on dino is coming from some source other than scum? | ||
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On November 30 2012 19:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Djo, Why should clarity take you as opposed to the party members before? Why do you think you're a better choice than Chronicler? Also if you assure us dino will be alive, why not just stick with the tried and tested people? I find the reasoning here strange. You also claiming you get a role related boost from being on the party? | ||
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On November 30 2012 19:46 syllogism wrote: What is your win con then? I don't quite understand how you are supposed to achieve your win con if you really have no idea what your abilities do. Clearly no one is trying to kill you given that you haven't claimed being hit or anything. Have you managed to do anything useful with your abilities since the dt check? I'm mostly curious as there is no way you are mafia and we can't do anything about you even if your win con is to kill some townie. I am slowly making progress on my wincon. My abilities do help me with it. Also, while I have avoided the big shots that hit Marv and Dino, I have claimed all the damage I took: D1 - 20 damage D2 - 30 damage D3 - nothing D4 - 75 damage So far I am not particularly concerned about my "survivor" wincon, but if somebody aims a nuke like the one Drazerk claims to have aimed at Toad in my direction I won't be quite as happy. That said, the damage claimed by Toad, the health claimed by Drazerk and my own max HP mean something is wrong there. The nuke should've been bigger. However, there are too many things that could have happened. Suffice to say, I don't trust Drazerk. It is possible this was all an elaborate ploy by scum to 1. Figure out how much my HP is to see whether it is worth their trouble of offing me (I assure you, it isn't. I expect I am harder to kill than Dino, even without half the town protecting me) 2. Distance Drazerk from Toad by claiming a monster hit on him. It is also possible scum has some protective abilities, which they used on Toad, or Drazerk was lying about having only 24 HP and/or how his ability works. The latter seems a foregone conclusion in any case, seeing as someone claimed he shot Draz for 50 damage last night and Drazerk is not yet dead. | ||
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On November 30 2012 20:59 risk.nuke wrote: Very interesting that Prom and Acro attacked me hard when syllogism led them to believe he thought I was scum and dropped it like a stone when he stated he was merely suspicious of me. Interesting that you think I dropped it. Where the fuck did I say "nah, risk is not suspicious". I think you are a prime candidate for scum. You have done jack shit in town's favour this game, have claimed a use of the role you have which makes no sense whatsoever from a town viewpoint (I was on the fence, but someone pointed out that inviting Keirathi before Syllo would be fucking retarded if you wanted to start a town circle... and GK in there is still bothering me from that point of view too) and refuse to give out your reads or explain earlier reads even after repeated questioning. However, I am satisfied that nobody will voluntarily take you on a party and when we get another opportunity to lynch someone I will be back to pushing you. For now, I will just ignore everything you say except to correct you when you are obviously misrepresenting shit that is happening. Like now. | ||
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On November 30 2012 22:55 Djodref wrote: No, it is definitively a scumtell, whatever the reason. Since I've been reading these forums, I've only ever saw scum players voting themselves. I've seen it done by both. In my newbie game the first person to vote for himself was town. After that it became a thing and scummers did it in the same game too. VE has voted for himself on numerous occasions regardless of his alignment. Those are the examples I can come up with. All I can say on the subject is that it's stupid. | ||
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On November 30 2012 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Why would you vote for yourself unless you basically concede? ?? The reasoning at the time was (for the townie votes): "I am town, nobody believes me and it is shitting up the thread to no end. My continued presence in the game will screw everybody over and is skewing people's perceptions of the actual scum in the game. So, lets get this over with, kill me, and then you can all get on with actual scumhunting and I will win the game post-mortem." The scum motivation is of course: "I am scum, but nobody believes scum would willingly kill themselves, so I will vote for myself, thereby 'proving' I am not scum and make it less likely that I get lynched." It is a derp-tell, not a scum-tell. If derping it up is a scumtell for GK (based on meta), then go ahead and use it in a case. | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:46 Dienosore wrote: I appreciate your support, Kita, but please do not include me into the party. Unless someone comes through with some clutch moves, I'm probably out. Ive been the target of 450~ dmg every night, so logic says this is my last night. What makes you think you were targeted with around 450 damage on N2 or N3? Can't find it in your filter. Also, going through filters and figuring out the claims is a shitton of work. Not sure why I volunteered I do have some weird leads that are going to need sorting out later. | ||
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgRwUW7S2s2HdHFnd1J0T2hzWmNKTmR5R2xUZ1dzNnc Not making it editable. Last time I made my spreadsheet editable Caller played with it. If there's something wrong, let me know in the thread. Weird shit that needs explaining: Hapa heal on D3. Syllo doing damage and roleblocking on the same night. Prom claiming less damage than Syllo claimed to deal. Drazerk claiming less damage than Kita claimed to deal... twice. Kita claiming no damage when Drazerk claimed to deal it. Drazerk dealing less damage than he should have on N4. There are lots of unclaimed roleblocks. There seem to be too many protective roles and way less damage dealing roles than makes sense balance-wise. All members of the N4 party took 75 damage, so it could have been the event, or it could be scum activated to deal damage to the party. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:34 syllogism wrote: The item I received allowed me to inflict damage in addition to my normal night action I don't think there are lots of unclaimed roleblocks, if any. Signs point towards sandro being the only mafia roleblocker unless mafia just prefers to use some other ability over roleblock. Risk claimed roleblocked N2 without it being claimed. You claimed roleblocked N2 without it being claimed. Drazerk claimed roleblocked N3 without it being claimed. Toad claimed roleblocked N3 without it beling claimed. Of course, it's doubtful this is true. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote: im trying to figure out how i got healed prom Yeah, that's another one. I just assumed it's one of the unclaimed things. Adam has claimed nothing so far, for instance. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:50 Promethelax wrote: A thought Acro, you said you had 9 abilities right? And draz has 27, but only learns about two a night? I doubt it, three seems much more logical. Imp: me no can heal. Honestly, I think Drazerk is lying about everything he has done this game. His role sounds OP compared to mine: I haven't tried all my abilities yet, but I have not yet stumbled upon anything as powerful as the nuke Drazerk claimed to use last night. Kush had one, but it was his ONLY ability. I also only have 9 abilities and can't know what they do until I fire them. He claims 250 HP, but never takes the damage he's supposed to and doesn't die when he's supposed to. He claims to be able to nuke for retarded amounts, which don't line up with what actually hits. He doesn't hit Kita with the damage he claims he is doing. Imho one (or both) of Drazerk and Kita is lying about the damage they've been dealing to each other. Add that to the absolute weirdness of Drazerk's role and I am quite convinced Drazerk is lying. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:57 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm not even lying To be fair, the damage on Toad could be Toad lying or scum using some protection on him as well. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:57 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm not even lying Ok. Explain to us how "Spicy Jerky" was supposed to work. Explain to us what Dota ability coincides with Turducken. Give us your theories on who, what and why you were saved last night. Tell us what EMP was supposed to do. Tell us what you did N2. | ||
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On December 01 2012 03:53 Promethelax wrote: Acro, what is pgo? Already explained in the thread. Paranoid Gun Owner. | ||
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We have a claimed protection on Syllo. Iamperfection claims he was healed and took 30 damage, so some might have gone there (although I cannot for the life of me figure out why). It still all feels rather light. | ||
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For starters, there is no Turducken that I know of in Chrono Trigger. EMP and a giant nuke also do not go together at all. It's just all so weird. And add to that the fact that your damage report makes no sense. Kita claims to shoot you twice, you take half damage D1 and no damage D4. | ||
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On December 01 2012 04:39 CaveJohnson wrote: Reflects it... I thought I'd already stated this 4 cycles ago? Kita, did you take 25 or 50 damage on N1, in addition to the guessing game? | ||
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On December 01 2012 04:43 GreYMisT wrote: If possible disable the messaging portion of the google spreadsheet. If you cannot it goes without saying that no communication may be done in there. I tried. It doesn't seem to have the option to switch comments off. If you like I can copypaste the thing to the thread and switch it back to private. It'll just be a giant mess. | ||
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On December 01 2012 04:20 CaveJohnson wrote: Turducken was EMP Night 2 I used cold snap (Eclair) on Djodref for self preservation reasons. I dunno if he ever got role blocked as a result. I think Kita was targeted and then screwed with not me. Spicy Jerky screwed with the first person to visit me and only them. Are you claiming you roleblocked Djodref on N2? Also, why Djodref? What made you pick him out over Phagga or Kita? Also, I find you talking about self-preservation rather funny. | ||
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On December 01 2012 04:12 Dienosore wrote: Well duh. I consider this as fact: Everything Toad says at this point is a lie and intended to misguide town. Now here I put forth case a and b. They both concern the same event. case.a case.b Which tells me he didn't take any dmg, hence could be why he didn't shake when I indirectly quizzed him about his hp A fiendish plot. I also saw the two different claims and figured he was probably lying. I wouldn't be so fast as to say he took no damage, just that he is lying about how much damage he took. He's grasping the opportunity to spread misinformation in the town (and forcing me to give up information about my HP, which luckily is rather high). Well, we lynch Toad tonight and that's the end of it. | ||
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On December 01 2012 05:18 GreYMisT wrote: Cycle 5 lynch count! Toadesstern (?): Clarity_nl, Oatsmaster, Hopeless1der, Djodref, Adam4167, Syllogism (?): Toadesstern goodkarma (?): Promethelax, phagga, phagga (?): goodkarma Cycle 6 Party Leader! Clarity_nl (15): Clarity_nl, Oatsmaster, Hopeless1der, Djodref, Adam4167, phagga, Promethelax, Promethelax, syllogism, TheChronicler, Dienosore, iamperfection, strongandbig, Hapahauli, risk.nuke Keirathi (2): Toadesstern (1): Toadesstern syllogism (2): VisceraEyes, Acrofales Forgot about the "hidden" lynch already? :D | ||
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On December 01 2012 05:24 CaveJohnson wrote: Not unless he took damage on either cycle 2 or 3 (one not both) I presumed he was the most likely to actually do damage to me. Kita had already failed at hitting me once and I'll be honest when I say I didn't take Phagga seriously. He took damage on cycle 2, but it's probably from the same thing that hit iamperfection, clarity and me. | ||
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On November 25 2012 09:30 Hassybaby wrote: Final Day 2 Lynch Count! Sandroba (16): BioSC (0): CaveJohnson (0): TheChronicler (1): Promethelax (0): kitaman27 (0): goodkarma (1): Dienosore Toadesstern (7): Acrofales, Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, Djodref, Z-BosoN, CaveJohnson It is now Night 3 blah blah I'm technically not co-host This votecount looks completely wrong. Oatsmaster is listed twice. GK's vote on Toad is counted (presumably), but not listed. Can we get the final, official, complete and correct votecount for D2 please? | ||
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TLDR: unless I am completely missing something the "hidden lynch" mechanic seems pointless and we should play as if it doesn't exist. | ||
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I'd say TheChronicler is nearest to being in the town circle without actually being in yet... and it's entirely possible he's been bamboozling us all, but I honestly doubt it. We also have Djodref, who has been giving me town vibes all game and his save of Dieno seems pretty townie too. Given this situation it seems to me that scum really has to get something done. That brings us to everybody else who is trying to get in on a party. Of these Hapa and Kita seem the most adamant about how they should/deserve to be included. | ||
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On December 01 2012 06:35 goodkarma wrote: Just a quick question, but could you humor me and tell me a scum motivation for Hapa to lie about taking damage (or healing for that matter)? I can't think of any reason he'd feel motivated to lie about this, as town or scum... If you are looking townie, then people will interpret the source of damage to be scum. Therefore claiming damage makes you look townier (in fact, it makes you look like valuable town, because scum is trying to off you). Toad claiming the shot "confirms" that this damage came from a scum source. | ||
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On December 01 2012 06:52 syllogism wrote: Perhaps they shot me day 2 and your protection stopped the damage or they just assumed that I would be protected every cycle. Either way I agree that mafia KP usage has been terrible based on what we know. Your being alive also bothered me while making the chart. Given the choice of shooting Dino and shooting Syllo, I know where I'd be aiming my scumgun... | ||
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On December 01 2012 07:02 goodkarma wrote: So if scum actually did shoot Hapa, is there a conceivable way the heal didn't go through? With so many abilities in the game I would think this possible... I suppose the scum motivation makes sense, but it feels like it would be a high risk scum move to make for the reward (a little "town cred")... What is so high risk about it? There is a LOT of damage flying around, most of it unclaimed. Throwing in 100 (or maybe 150) fake damage would've gone completely unnoticed, if not for the heal claim. Nobody knew about the heal notification mechanics, so that would not have figured into a risk-reward equation. Not that I am 100% sure that that is what happened, but there is an unexplained issue here and a scum explanation for making sense of it. I will have to go over Hapa's filter more carefully and honestly can't be assed until we have another lynch cycle. Suffice to say, he should not be on any parties. | ||
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On December 01 2012 07:30 Keirathi wrote: Something else, though: would GreyMisT have made sandro, Toad, AND syllo scum, with Acro 3p? That would be a pretty stacked non-town. It's possible, since the game hasn't really relied on lynching very much, and scum is inherently at a disadvantage when the game revolves around town reads, but I'm not sure that its likely. This also relies on the scumteam having absolutely NO confidence in Sandro's ability to look like town very early in the game. Syllo hopped on the "Sandro doesn't play like this as town" and never left off. It is a very strange bus, when Syllo saying "Sandro's town" would NEVER have caused anybody to lynch him D2, even with so many people claiming they weren't sheeping Syllo. That is the main reason I think Syllo is not scum, not his membership in the D1 party, which is just extra corroborating evidence. | ||
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On December 01 2012 07:39 Hapahauli wrote: Yes. Being scum is the only possible way I could be angry about this. I'm not just a really fucking frustrated townie. That's inconceivable. Did you ask Greymist if there was an error in your PM? | ||
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On December 01 2012 07:50 iamperfection wrote: so it would shed no light on what has been happening at all and it doesn't explain the heal that i received on d2 correct? Lay off him. If he's town and feels it's better he doesn't claim, then it's better he doesn't claim. If he's scum, he'll just fakeclaim some bullshit anyway. Neither helps us much and if he's town it puts information that Hapa claims is useful to scum in their hands. Either way, pressuring people into claiming is not useful. | ||
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I took 0 damage. | ||
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On December 01 2012 09:51 Keirathi wrote: I like Acro's idea for taking the sword rather than using Tech Attack. We may need the MP during the second part of the fight. Don't really have an idea for what would be best for Flea though. While I really like taking credit for this, it wasn't me. What we need to ask ourselves is: does scum have knowledge about these fights that we don't? I can't imagine how scum is supposed to "win" here, if they don't have some extra information and convince town to take the wrong choice. In the game, there is no option to take the sword. However, it feels somehow right: if we can do that, then we avoid the hardest part of the Flash fight and get an awesome sword to use against him. On the other hand, it could be a trick option. Regarding Flea: I like sending Dienosore at him. It's unlikely he'll live much longer in any case, sitting at 1 HP does not seem like a recipe for longevity this game. Dienosore: are there any awesome abilities you were planning on using that mean we should not send you in to suicide? I seem to recall beating the crap out of Flea with slurp slashes and cleaves. I didn't even have a triple tech yet. Some kind of triple tech might do lots of damage and doesn't risk sending Dieno with his 1 HP. Just before Flea there's a savepoint. I vote option F: use shelter, then let Frogger attack Flea. Random setup speculation: if we had succeeded both events, we might have gotten the dreamstone and repaired Masamune, making this fight easier? | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:23 Djodref wrote: @Acro How do you know that Dieno has 1HP ? I don't. I just assumed. He has been saved from death twice now. Actually, if that is following game rules it's 50 HP, not 1. Also, I just read Frogger has Masamune. That means we should probably save him for the second part of the day, in which I presume we battle Magus. | ||
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##Flea E Lets have some daring doing. If we have the option to grab the sword, it should be the best option. And rocket punching Flea in the face and saving Masamune for another day sounds pretty good to me. | ||
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I know we have other stuff on our mind right now, but your defense of Phagga is weird. CJ didn't claim Drazerk after the vote and when Phagga changed his mind. He claimed well before. That was NOT the reason for Phagga to change his mind. That said, there were 2 entire cycles (3 if you count when Phagga placed his vote, rather than when he took it off to sheep onto Sandro) between Phagga having a scum read on Drazerk, and Phagga stating his HP to enable Drazerk's ability. That is 96 hours and on estimate 100 pages of thread. Seems like enough time for Phagga to have changed his mind. | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:35 Dienosore wrote: I should definitely attack here. Besides Robo, I'm the only offensive character in the squad right now. I also am pretty sure I cannot die. AND I HAVE MASAMUNE. Let me use it at least once, I implore you all. As for Slash, I said C earlier, but maybe we should consider saving our mp for a more dire situation. Marv's KISS advice sounds good here for option A. If he has no sword, then how can he hurt us? Unless of course it's a trap. Then option B fuck it starts to sound good, but then he'd most likely get the sword next turn and our battle becomes harder. Right now I'm leaning towards A, but I wont change my vote just yet. I'll wait to see what y'all think. Seeing as we're in Magus' castle and this is the first "event", we have the 2nd 24 hours of the cycle to go still in which we probably have to fight Ozzie and Magus. Given that Masamune is absolutely amazing against Magus, we definitely need you around. What makes you think you can't die, btw? | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:40 Adam4167 wrote: I feel so grossly unequipped to give any advice on this situation, having never played the game. I have no outstanding time commitments, how long would it take me to finish, assuming I started right now? Finish the game? Or get to the Flash/Flea fight? I'd say the fight is about 8 hours in, but I may be underestimating the time I put into the game. | ||
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On December 01 2012 11:08 Adam4167 wrote: wow. I just died and I have to start over again? Jesus these old games are harsh. Liberal use of save state inc. Has the PM mishap been resolved now, does everyone have their correct night resolution? Haha, yeah. I thought the same :D The second time round I visited the mayor's house and learned that you can save any time you're on the world map. | ||
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On December 01 2012 15:21 TheChronicler wrote: Confirming that I didn't get a pm. Gnight. Funky shit. This means the healing notification mechanics may be different than we thought. I find it very hard to believe VE OR TC would be dumb enough to lie about healing at this point. Either that, or there is some kind of action redirector that is severely screwing with our minds. However, if it is targeted I can think of no sane reason to use that on Hapa and TC rather than high profile players who you'd expect to get healed (Syllo, Marv, Dino). | ||
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On December 01 2012 12:47 Djodref wrote: I didn't get roleblocked so far. Your action didn't get through or you are lying about it. Drazerk, it is time to come clean. In addition to Kita and Toad (not the most reliable sources), we now have H1 and Djodreff claiming night results different from what you do. I am completely onboard with a policy of shooting you until you either die or tell us the truth. For you to explain: N1 - Kita claims a 50 damage shot and no damage to himself. You claim you took 25 damage and reflected damage back onto one person who hit you. N2 - H1 claims a 126 damage shot. You claim no damage (or at least omitted a damage claim N2). You claim to RB Djodreff, who claims he wasn't roleblocked. N3 - GK claims a 150 damage shot. You claim you took 201 damage. Given that H1 is the only one who claimed a vig shot with weird numbers, it seems as if you claimed N2 damage on N3. N4 - Kita claims a 50 damage shot. You claim no damage. I have even omitted the whole Turducken on Toad, because there's no need to speculate about what Toad was lying about. | ||
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On December 01 2012 12:18 Hopeless1der wrote: Because of the amount of effort Acro has put into the game and my belief that he has the towns best interest at heart, I am not going to 100% claim my actions in order to protect his HP information. I do not believe the information I'm withholding is valuable enough to town to justify giving scum/other 3rd parties that info. I gain vig hits equal to 2x the damage I deal to myself and untargetability as my secondary ability. N1 - 63 HP N2 - Target CJ for 126 damage N3 - # HP (withheld to prevent knowledge of Acro's HP) N4 - Target Toad N5 - I'll debate whether its worth claiming. Things to note: My target on CJ seems to have been delayed. In addition, it directly contradicts gk's claim. There is an extra 75 damage that went missing on CJ Night 3. However, my hit should have gone through Night 2, and I don't know why it didn't. I was unable to deal the amount of damage to myself that I wanted to last night. I still have a shot, its just less than I was expecting. The amount I fell short makes no sense from a percentage standpoint. It was not a round number. No heals to report. I don't want to use tech attacks for this event. I want to try taking that sword and I want Robo to attack first. ##Slash: A ##Flea: E So your first ability is to do a percentage of a target player's HP damage to yourself, if I understand correctly? Current HP or max HP? Also what percentage? If you ever feel the necessity to claim N3, I want to be able to verify that. | ||
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VE, do you have any indication that your heal notifications are different from Clarity/Iamp's? | ||
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On December 01 2012 21:31 CaveJohnson wrote: Find one analysis by me as town. I've played well over 40 games and I bet you can't find one. While you didn't post analysis in Bastard 2, you definitely posted your thoughts. In fact, I just went over that game again and saw that you were the one to push me into giving the whole Hyaach/xkskskks thing a more careful analysis. In this game, all you've done so far is create confusion with night actions. Who do you think is scum? | ||
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Clarity, you mentioned your heal on Marv was conditional. Is this the same kind of deal? What does this tell you about Oats? Also, you said you were out of heals... | ||
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Kita, who did you hit on D2? | ||
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I really want to know what happened to Drazerk, though. People have claimed 251 damage to him that is not showing up anywhere. | ||
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On December 02 2012 03:21 syllogism wrote: Actually I think I got the cycles wrong so that doesn't quite work out D1 party was Syllo, Dieno, Oats and Keirathi. D3 party was Dieno, Oats, Clarity and Marv. Your theory works. However, abilities that work only based on nameclaims tend to be scum related: hosts like to punish player for claiming, not reward them. | ||
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On December 02 2012 03:28 syllogism wrote: Didn't Oats take the damage on N4? The cycle when the party failed due to dino not sending in a team? But yes, that was my theory Yeah, you're right. | ||
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Also, what do you know about the scumQT? | ||
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On December 02 2012 04:48 strongandbig wrote: if i guess the rolename wrong the ability fails and i cant use it again next cycle Who did you try to use it on D2 and what did you guess? | ||
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1. Djodreff was in fact roleblocked on N2, leading Dieno to not get protection. Drazerk, could you give us more information on whether Djodreff would get notified if he were roleblocked? 2. Dieno was in no risk of dying on N3, so the protection didn't leave a message. In the latter case, SnB's damage was actual damage with no "heal that doesn't show up as a heal". There is some further things that point me in that direction: 250 damage is a lot to simply deliver while keeping a 300 HP heal secret. A town ability like that would be spreading major misinformation about the damage people have been taking. That sounds contrary to the best interest of town, so I tend not to believe it. As I said before, I have not gotten any indication that our "maximum HP" is flexible. So, given that SnB looks very like he's scum caught in a lie, why exactly does Kita want to let him run around doing 250 damage to whoever he feels like "checking"? Scum will lie. The chance that town will "force" him to use that ability on a townie is larger than the chance that it will be used on a scumbuddy. That means he'll be free to deal 250 damage and then say "yeah, it checks out". If he IS forced to use it on a fellow scum, they simply don't use it, the intended target claims 250 damage and scum laughs their way to the bank. Kita is too good a player not to know this. The only way of using SnB safely is by lynching the "intended target" regardless of what SnB says, which makes his check completely useless. So, Kita, why did you think letting SnB run around doing 250 damage a night was a good idea? | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:49 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm saying the exact opposite. We choose his target. We choose town, he shoots for 250 damage. We choose scum, the scum fakeclaims taking 250 damage. How the fuck does this help us? | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:39 Dienosore wrote: I've been slackin on the maps lately. Do you guys find them useful? I can keep doing them if you want. I thought you found them useful. I didn't understand them, but you seemed to be getting leads from there. Connection cases work better later in the game (after flips), and while I don't draw squiggly lines I sometimes make spreadsheets with who has what kind of read on whom. If it helps YOU find scum, then keep doing it. I just could not make much sense of them | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:10 Acrofales wrote: We choose town, he shoots for 250 damage. We choose scum, the scum fakeclaims taking 250 damage. How the fuck does this help us? I guess the only advantage is that until we get a lynch, we point the gun. | ||
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Also, Dieno could at least have told us he was redirecting random stuff :S | ||
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Skip to 5:38. Not all the traps have been sprung, but most of them. It's hard to see, but I think B is the best option. Magus is trickier. On the one hand, I took advantage of his shield being down to beat the crap out of him. On the other hand, you need to have good health, because he will blast the party with a big spell when he's done casting. If I recall it's 200 damage to all. Not quite sure whether to play it safe (use potions and heal) or beat the stuffing out of him. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote: uh he didnt skip the first one he said he doesn't think the things actually attack Well, falling down DOES give you a save point. That's the main advantage to falling down (there's also a chest). However, you only really want to fall down 1 hole, and imho falling down no holes would be better. We're playing mafia, not chrono trigger. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote: Where can you play the game? I have it on my iPad. It's a pretty shoddy port, though. If you have a Nintendo DS, that'd be better. That's supposed to be the best version, with cutscenes and stuff. | ||
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Path C looks like it runs straight into the first trap. Path A looks like it runs into the trap in the middle on the left. Path B *might* fall into the trap in the bottom right, but I think it avoids it. ##Ozzie: B We can hit Magus with appropriate spells when he has his shield up, just takes longer. So better safe than sorry, lets use potions. ##Magus: A | ||
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On December 02 2012 20:00 Djodref wrote: Do you think it is possible for us to fail this event even if we are all town players in the party ? Or is it just that the choices we are given are only to determine how much damage we take. For example, we chose Oats as our first attacker against Flea and he didn't claim any damage taken iirc. I plan to claim my actions, my name and my abilities before the night post. But you should only claim if you think you have to and it doesn't put the town at risk. Some people have already pointed to a plausible way for the party system to work that could fail with only town people (if they die along the way, like Dieno just did). Djodreff, you did not claim damage on the first nights. You did not take any? I've been looking at Dieno's filter a bit and have a hard time imagining he shot anybody other than you or GK. Neither of you claimed damage. | ||
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I also did some filter diving on SnB. Anybody who says they have a town read based on meta... I don't see it. If I were to compare this to SSM then sure, however I looked over WLIIA and SnB's scumgame has improved a lot since then. I don't find him coming off "more carefree" now than he did there. That said, I don't see where he is pushing a scu agenda this game. He didn't push Sandro's vote D1. He did like a lynch on Sandro early and he has never wanted to be in a party insofar as I can tell. If he is scum, he has played very carefully. However, SnB's most convincing case in WLIIA is on Mementoss, his scumbuddy. So that is not particularly conclusive either. That leaves just the ability. I really want to know what SnB did on the missing nights: N2 and N5. Dieno's flip also indicates that his math is correct. If we subtract 250 damage from N1 and add a 50 HP heal instead, we are left with 145+475 < 750, so he shouldn't have died N4 and need the "mysterious player" to save him from death. | ||
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On December 02 2012 21:25 Promethelax wrote: I assume that Clar actually took 325 damage but since my shield was there it was reduced to 125. Not sure how the notifications would work though. I'd have to ask GreY. This seems very unlikely. However, what would have been the result if clarity was shot during N5. Would the seed still be doing its roleblock thingy? Or would it already be a shield? | ||
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On December 02 2012 21:35 syllogism wrote: I don't know if that's all from mafia, but yes that kind of play makes sense in this format if Djodref is mafia. I have to read the post where Djodref claims the save as claiming makes no sense if you can just stay hidden and protect the player for all eternity. I think at the time of the claim we already had enough "confirmed" townies to form a team. What? You think it makes sense for scum to 1. Blow all their KP on someone they know is unkillable 2. Blow an incredibly strong protection power on town Just to get Djodref into a party? | ||
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On December 02 2012 21:29 Clarity_nl wrote: I want to re-iterate this since you guys didn't seem to understand it: So if I'm 400 hp (pulled out of my ass) and have a 200 hp shield, and take 125 damage, I get the notification that I took 125 damage. What makes you think this? This seems to me like the least logical way of doing it. If you have a 200 hp shield and don't know about it (which you wouldn't in the normal situation where Prom didn't claim), you take 200 damage, you get a report of 0 damage. That seems far more logical. If you take 220 damage, you get a report of receiving 20 damage. Yes, that means damage goes missing in the night reports. However, otherwise you cannot keep even a halfway decent estimate of what your HP is at. Additionally, heals have already been confirmed to work that way. You take 150 damage and a 100 HP heal, you get told you were hit for 50 damage and that you were healed. Why would the shield work any differently? | ||
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Toad needed 11 charges. Even with all events failing, we have so far had 3 events and this is the 4th. Tonight will be N6. So he would've had 10 charges after tonight with all events so far failing and never getting roleblocked. That is STILL not enough to summon Lavos prematurely. It also mentions that he can only do that after we get Epoch, which we do NOT have yet... and given the way the game works, it seems like that will take at least 1 more event to get there (you don't get Epoch after Magus, you go to the prehistory after Magus, then to antiquity and finally to the future where you get Epoch). And Toad could summon Lavos prematurely, meaning there will be a few MORE cycles between getting Epoch and fighting Lavos. Scum had this information and could calculate it from the very start of the game (well, they didn't know how many cycles would have events, but they knew they'd have to wait at least 6 cycles). After running for party leader failed, they might have settled down to play the long game. | ||
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On December 02 2012 21:54 Djodref wrote: Ok, let's get this straight. I took 20 damage cycle 1 and I claimed it at the beginning of cylce 2. Acro, iamp and Clarity have claimed the same damage. I took 30 damage cycle 2 and I claimed it at the beginning of cycle 3. Acro, iamp and Clarity have claimed the same damage. Nothing happened to me during the cycle 3 and 4. I claimed that I was going to protect Dieno and and we got the messages from the hosts at the openings of cycles 4 and 5. I insisted that Dieno should be on the team because my ability was to keeping him alive (but at 1HP) every night as long as I was alive. I was healed (heal claimed by iamp) during cycle 5. I took 100 damage from the bosses (Slash and/or Flea) during cycle 6. That's what I forgot to claim. I lied about how my ability worked to force the mafia to waste some KP on Dieno. My only ability this game was a one-time game ability allowing me to keep a player alive as long as I was alive myself. Hence the reason why I wanted to be on the party. Because some protecting me was in fact protecting Dieno and me. Unfortunately, I don't provide protection for daytime damage. I didn't imagine a single moment during the last cycle that we were going to take daytime damage. Or I would have been 100% against Dieno in the party. I knew he was not going to die if I didn't but I didn't expect this at all. Sorry for this situation... I chose Dieno because I thought Masamune would be an important item for us to defeat Lavos so I wanted to keep him alive so he could use it. I'm dispointed right now and you shouldn't waste your time on my filter imo. I claim to have save Dieno twice. No counter-claim and you can see now that I know the mechanics that explain the protection. I'm Alfador, Janus's Cat during the Antiquity or Dark Ages. I had to chose a new master after the disparition of Janus in the time portal created at the manisfestation of Lavos. @Clarity So who is the most frail between us ? When did you use the action to protect Dieno? And why are you roleclaiming now when you could have bamboozled scum into thinking someone like Syllo was protected? | ||
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On December 02 2012 21:56 Promethelax wrote: It would roleblock/vanish like it would the cycle I planted it. If I plant n1 it will role block anyone who visits the target n1, if no one targets the player it is still there n2 where it acts as if it was just planted. n3 it is a shield. Okay, when exactly would it mature into a shield? Right after N2? Or at the end of D3? | ||
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On December 02 2012 22:05 Promethelax wrote: the second night after planting. Trying to translate from flavour to real time. I sent GreY a pm and I'll share whatever I learn from it when I learn it. Acro/syllo: why did scum target me? I'm not calling you scum. In fact, I am trying to give you a chance to point out the various ways in which Clarity could take damage without the shield ability being a lie. However, why do you think scum targeted you? The numbers don't add up if we add the initial reports from you and Syllo together. That makes me think the hosts mixed up a number of actions, or the resolution order or something. It definitely doesn't prove you were targeted by damage. And it proves even less that that damage came from a scum source. | ||
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On December 02 2012 22:12 Djodref wrote: @Acro I decided to use my ability on Dieno during the second cycle. And I roleclaim now because I cannot protect anyone anymore and the mafia attacked Dieno even when I announced that he was protected. I don't want to start lying about protection I cannot give... Okay, so he was either protected during N2, or from cycle 3 onwards. Either way, the message in the daypost only seems to show up if Dieno actually takes damage that would othewise kill him. That leaves damage missing on Dieno if SnB is telling the truth. | ||
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On December 02 2012 22:26 Djodref wrote: Not necessraly, because Dieno could have used his ability "Slurp" and redirected the target to someone else. Dieno did not take any damage D2 but maybe because he managed to redirect the only harmfull action directed against him. I could see Dieno using Slurp on Toad at the end of the cycle 2 for example. No. You're either lying about the way your ability works, or not thinking straight. If you targeted Dieno and your protection is the ability that got randomly moved, then the rest of the game you would be protecting someone other than Dieno. On D4 and D5 the daypost said someone protected Dieno. Either that someone isn't you (seems unlikely) or your ability hit Dieno and stuck there. | ||
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Dieno's claims: 445 damage N1 0 damage N2 (doesn't matter why) 0 damage N3 (doesn't matter why) and healed for an unknown amount. 475 damage N4 I see no reason to doubt these claims given that Dieno flipped town. On neither D3 or D4 dayposts did we get the message that Dieno had been mysteriously protected. We only got that on D5. Dieno had 750 HP. 750 - 445 - 475 = -170 AKA dead (unless the heal was for more than 170, in which case we have multiple discrepancies and things start to get weird again). In this situation it makes sense for the daypost to say Dieno was protected from death on N4, but not before According to SnB's claim, he didn't actually do 250 damage, but instead healed for 50. That leaves: 750 - 145 - 475 = 130 (plus whatever he was healed for). In this situation it makes no sense for the daypost to say Dieno was protected from death on N4, but not before All I was using your claim for was to make sure that N4 was not the first time this ability could kick in. | ||
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On December 02 2012 22:52 Djodref wrote: Sorry, I was talking about S&B ability, not mine. I was persuaded that my ability went trough and stuck on Dieno because I thought he was saved during the second cycle. I thought that the mafia KP missing had been sent on Dieno. In fact, I'm pretty sure now that the mafia targeted syllo and that he was nicely jailed by Keir. Ahhh, okay. However, nobody claimed the damage, meaning it either hit scum or SnB is lying. The only people I can realistically see Dieno targeting on D1 are Djodreff and GK. A big big maybe on CaveJohnson. | ||
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On December 02 2012 22:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Why not Sandro? I targeted him d1 Did you look at Dieno's filter? He never mentions Sandro being scum. | ||
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You state here you have no time to play, yet you don't /out from Paranoia. You then show more activity in 2 days of Paranoia Mafia than 10 days here. Why do you not want to play with us? Are you scum, happy to lurk while the townies accuse each other? | ||
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On December 03 2012 00:48 strongandbig wrote: i have no good explanation for this, only speculation. however given that my ability is basically a stealth heal, it seems very likely that mafia has similar stealth damage abilities that either work by reducing max hp, canceling healing, or some other mechanism i haven't thought of yet. a poisoner ability is also possible, where someone would die after a delay but wouldn't take damage, so dieno could have been protected from death without being at 1hp. it does seem weird that mafia would use this on frog but maybe they were more concerned with taking him out before he could fix masamune than they were with killing good "traditional mafia" players like syllogism. Nights 2 and 5... NOW. | ||
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On December 03 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote: Did it ever occur to you to use it on Drazerk? Did it ever occur to you to use your role as a role check? I kind of want to believe you because I don't understand why mafia chose to shoot frog on d1 and then ignored him for 2 days for no apparent reason. It seems likely to me that they shot marvel+dienosore d1, but didn't have enough KP to inflict 665 damage on those two and that they believed some third party also targeted dienosore. To be fair, 3rd party DID hit Dienosore. I know I hit him for 75 damage. Add 250 of SnB and there's only 120 damage left from unclaimed (scum) sources. Weird number, but if dealt in portions of 100 and 20, then it makes some sense. Overall, I still think there is way too much wrong with SnB's claim to make me believe the healing part of it. It is also far simpler for me to believe SnB shot Dieno than that there is a poisoner (who has so far only targeted Dieno) or secret damage in amounts large enough to make Dieno die N4. | ||
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Also, with Spekkio being scum, who knows what a Nu is. It is so far the ONLY character claimed that you actually have to fight against in the game.. except for risk.nuke and I completely mistrust risk.nuke too. | ||
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On December 03 2012 03:39 austinmcc wrote: Okay, so here's an observation. Last event, we grabbed for the sword. There was no phase 2 of the Slash fight. So we know that these events don't play out 1:1 with the analogous bits of the game. We both chose something you CAN'T do in game, and got a result that CAN'T HAPPEN in game. I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game. As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B. Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia. I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already. Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game. You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas! | ||
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1. Useless and 2. Unverifiable. Trolololol. The only question that remains in my mind is why would SnB be dumb enough to claim this and verify that it really is an utterly destructive ability for town? In fact, if there is one person in this game who should know better, it is a scum SnB: he was scum in SSM, the only game where I have seen an early mass claim completely wipe scum from the face of the game, due to a combination of Sandroba's genius and scum completely bolloxing up their fakeclaims. | ||
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On December 03 2012 06:01 austinmcc wrote: I overestimated my ability to read through 260 pages of mafia, let alone 260 pages in a game that was heavily themed and so there's all sorts of other stuff going on. Right now I'm playing this like I did PTP3. I'm a warm body; I plan on mainly doing setup speculation when needed, just because I have no idea what's gone on before. It worked out alright there as the game progressing, but I guess I was confirmed that game so I wasn't under any suspicion. SnB has popped up a bunch recently; I'll look back through his past stuff. My gut read right now is that he's scum, but I want to see if there's anything beyond the roleclaim to go off of. Can you narrow down the other folks to one or two that you're particularly interested in? I know CJ is drazerk(yes?), but I haven't really seen much from non-SnBs in that group and would need to hit a filter or two for thoughts. Yup, CJ is Drazerk. GK would be good to have your opinion on. He has been rather actively defending himself and I fear everybody here is getting some confirmation bias one way or the other. Hapa for a similar reason. That should be a decent start | ||
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On December 03 2012 06:51 Hopeless1der wrote: so the conclusion is SnB is town or retarded scum? Well, I see absolutely NO reason for town to have this ability in the first place. Scum trueclaiming is not going to happen, so all it serves is to shoot fellow townies. Raising max HP seems so utterly useless (unless we suddenly get to use a shelter/inn sometime in the game, which seems horribly unlikely) that I guess I mixed in a bit of postgame discussion there. SnB is scum for claiming an ability that has no town purpose at all. | ||
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On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote: If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers. We've already been there. I didn't learn magic the first time round. | ||
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Okay, going forward there are two options: 1. Our choices caused Djodreff to take damage > his hitpoints. He died. This caused the event to fail. 2. Djodreff did not die during the event, but it failed anyway. Djodreff then took damage (either from the event failing or because someone shot him) and died. The latter possibility would make winning events a lot harder than we suspected. We have to take extra care to take high HP people on missions like this one. | ||
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On December 03 2012 09:35 Clarity_nl wrote: No, events happen BEFORE night actions. Read, think, THEN answer. | ||
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I don't care what time we travel to. | ||
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On December 03 2012 09:51 Hapahauli wrote: No one really knows that, unless there's something you'd like to enlighten us about your "claim?" Know is a big word, but expecting? Yeah. | ||
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On December 03 2012 10:00 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah but what does that have to do with anything? From what Acro's said earlier, he received a fake-claim as a third party at the beginning of the game no? In addition, given how detailed the claims of flipped mafia players were (i.e. Toad's "Johnny" claim), I'd expect mafia to be similarly equipped. So bread-crumbing seems irrelevant here, given that it would only prove that I had a fake-claim and not a real one. However do you really think a heavily-themed CT game would not have one of the main fucking characters in the game as a town role? Well, I asked for a fake claim on D2 and got one. It wasn't automatically supplied. Also, if you breadcrumb your role D1 then it's usually okayish evidence. You usually only ask for a fakeclaim when you feel the necessity to claim (or you can see it coming) and you have some idea what you want to claim as. | ||
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. . . On December 03 2012 15:09 syllogism wrote: Hey guys S&B attempted to visit Djodref Whoops? ##vote StrongandBig | ||
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On December 03 2012 21:19 syllogism wrote: I think healing is more important than restoring 1-shots. Some unresolved mysteries: - Kita's weird guessing game and the subsequent beanbag game, of which he never talks about again. - Risk's claimed roleblock. Is no one really going to claim this? - Number of mafia. It could be 5 or 6 - Why does Adam want to go to 2300 AD if his only ability is a very unreliable guessing vig? And why are bananas curved? | ||
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1999 AD is inaccessible to travel. @Kita: I find it amazing you would believe SnB regardless of the result. However, as it stands, Syllo says he visited Djodref. I vote we lynch SnB and if he flips scum, we lynch Kita after. | ||
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On December 03 2012 21:59 kitaman27 wrote: Are you kidding me? I'm the one forcing S&B to commit to a check in the thread. Who says I'm believing a word he says. You do realize that I directed him to a source which he can't do damage to if phagga is truthful? Oh, right, you're not town. Nevermind. Oh, I thought your directing him to Phagga was quite clever and was actually going to mention it at the time when everybody was bitching about how it was stupid and he should've checked H1 or GK, which really would have been stupid. However, I realized that mentioning that would kinda ruin the potential of the gambit. Nevertheless, it's your follow-up that I take offense to. On December 03 2012 21:24 kitaman27 wrote: Good news Phagga, if you're not golem, would you mind revealing your actual role name? The reason I asked S&B to commit to checking you is because I couldn't come up with anything else that matches the flavor. Still waiting for VE to reveal the reasoning for his night action. I thought the "good news" was Phagga claiming to take no damage, implying you believed something about SnB's claim. If that's not what you meant, what is the good news? | ||
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On December 03 2012 15:44 Hapahauli wrote: Night 5 - Flame Resistant Coating on nl_clarity, but roleblocked Prom, were you notified your seed was activated on N5? | ||
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Who the fuck cares if your ability is a misspelled Proximity Bomb? Now scum knows that you have some kind of PGO ability. Good job, Einstein. | ||
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My opinion n time travel: lets go somewhere or most townie people get advantages. So far Keir as claimed 600 AD. Adam wants the future, but his ability sounds luck-based. Anybody else get bonuses in a specifc time? | ||
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On December 04 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: I am not good with that bussing stuff. Who would have been the target of the bus? There would have been two targets, right? The person to buss and the destination person? Bus driver changes everything that happens to person A with what happens to person B and vice versa. Therefore, SnB is claiming that there is an unknown person who was targeting Djodreff with KP, who instead got roleblocked by Syllo instead of SnB. Nothing was targeting the other person, so SnB got off clear. It is a pretty damned mundane use of a bus. I certainly wouldn't bus scum with a scumspect townie unless I was expecting DTs... and the only DTs in this game who have so far given info are TC, who has no more gold and myself, a 3P who had a 1-shot. So... that leaves me without a good protective reason for bussing SnB and only the setting-him-up part is left. Compare this with such things as using the bus on someone like Oatsmaster or Clarity who could expect to get healed and a scum on the other side, or bussing damage from a townie (or scum) likely to get hit by vigis, such as CJ or GoodKarma, onto somewhere it actually matters to scum (like Oatsmaster or Clarity). The most likely explanation is SnB is scum, he targeted Djodref instead of Phagga and is now trying to bullshit his way out of it. Oh, add that to some setup speculation: Greymist stated in the "mafia mechanics bot thing" thread that he deals with roleblocks before busses. This is the standard way of doing it, btw, because if you do roleblocks AFTER busses you can get some really paradoxical situations. | ||
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On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote: In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way: Roleblockers occur first Busdrivers/redirection Everything else. All actions within each tier occur at the same time | ||
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Is this where we post Samuel L Jackson pictures? | ||
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On December 04 2012 05:25 CaveJohnson wrote: Exceptions can always be made Acro Not really. If you allow bus drivers to operate first, then you can get the weird situation where: A drives his bus from A to B. C roleblocks B, resulting in A being roleblocked. Now what? You can really only resolve this in one way: nobody is roleblocked. B can't be roleblocked, because he was bussed with A. A can't be roleblocked because he already performed his action (and if you roleblock A then massive time paradoxes happen). However, this means that bus drivers are immune to roleblocks, which makes an incredibly powerful role even MORE powerful. Not gonna happen. So, roleblocks HAVE to happen before bus drivers in order for there to be any kind of balance. | ||
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On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote: Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense). What makes you think bus targets are notified? Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be. Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself. @Everybody: why are we going to the end of time on the word of Drazerk? It's retarded. His reasoning so far has been: On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote: If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers. On December 03 2012 09:37 CaveJohnson wrote: Another advantage for the end of time then - Its neutral ground since we've killed off one of its only residences. Equal playing field where we can't be surprised by interesting scum abilities. On December 04 2012 02:17 CaveJohnson wrote: Neutral ground is better than shaky ground. 600AD is probably the scariest place to be as far as possible scum abilities go. This is making me uneasy: I want to go anywhere Drazerk does not want to go. I don't think he has town interests and I don't think anybody following his reasoning is thinking straight. I don't care where we go, but Drazerk pushing for the End of Time is giving me juju feelings. 600AD gives Keirathi powers. Sounds good to me. Hell, the future gives Adam powers. Sounds good to me too. End of Time gives nobody powers (not Sandroba either, judging by his role pm). Lets not help Drazerk with whatever nefarious schemes he has. I don't trust him and anybody trusting Drazerk at any point in a game like this is a blithering idiot. I learned my lesson in HRM. | ||
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On December 04 2012 17:15 CaveJohnson wrote: Picking a party for another time's event isn't really an event in EoT. That way you can rationalize everything. We were in EoT and had to pick a party. On December 04 2012 12:58 Hopeless1der wrote: <snip> Regarding spite towards draz: As you say, its 'weird' not scummy. I see it as spite towards draz for no other reason than that he's draz. That's an argument for vigging him down, not deciding where to epoch ourselves to, and that's why I have a problem with it. We weren't considering the merits of the EoT, we were considering the merits of not giving draz what he wanted. In any case, I have my own selfish reasons for going to 600AD. I'm not particularly expectant, as my role pm doesn't explicitly allude towards anything, but what the hell, right? K I'm going to bed. 'Nite. What the hell H1? You are fine with shooting Drazerk in the face, but want to listen to his advice?! Do you think Drazerk is town? If so, why do you want to shoot him in the face? Do you think Drazerk is scum? If so, why do you want to listen to his advice? Anyway, my main argument is not even that it's Drazerk, it's that it's Drazerk arguing something that doesn't make any ingame sense. While EoT is a safe zone in Chrono Trigger there is no guarantee that it is in the mafia game as well. In fact, Drazerk puts forward that all Greymist can think up for us if we hang in EoT is lynches, which is clearly false given what already happened in the game. In other words, it is Drazerk making up bullshit arguments... and Drazerk making up bullshit arguments is something to mistrust to the extreme. I can make up similarly speculative arguments: Random speculation 1: If this game follows Chrono Trigger, then Crono is going to get himself killed in this mission. Next stop is to replace real chrono with fake chrono, for which we need to travel to the future! Alternatively we skip this part and go straight to 600 AD to kill Ozzie. Random speculation 2: If you try to kill Lavos at any point in the game before you've killed all the other bad guys, he is pretty much unbeatable. We should therefore travel to all the time zones to take out the bad monsters before we can successfully take on Lavos. The point is: we have NO clue how this game is going to work and what we need to defeat Lavos. Drazerk implying he knows more makes me very suspicious of him and his motives. Note: I still don't give a crap where we go. I am fairly certain I can fulfill my secondary wincon pretty soon and it is not dependent on the time zone. I just seem to be the only one who has played with Drazerk before and you deserve the warning: sheep Drazerk at your own peril. | ||
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##Epoch: Middle Ages | ||
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H1: suspects he gets bonuses in this era Keirathi: gets bonus for being in a party in middle ages GK: no known bonuses People from the future: Oatsmaster: small bonus in 2300AD Adam: doubles his vig shot damage if he manages to hit with it Present: Iamperfection: might get an upgrade if in a successful team (is the era important?) risk.nuke: no bonuses claimed CJ: no bonuses claimed Hapa: no known bonus Antiquity: Promethelax: no bonuses claimed That's it for era-based bonuses claimed so far. | ||
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On December 05 2012 01:23 phagga wrote: There we go again. I am so sick of this. you always turning around my words to create meanings that were not there. Where is the town motivation in that? In case you have not noticed yet, there are other alignements besides town and scum. Now leave me the fuck alone. What the hell is this. I know you two are having a happy little tunnelfest at each other, but how can you think SnB is anything other than scum? If he were a survivor caught in this kind of a bind, he would be claiming and yelling at the top of his lungs not to lynch him. Instead he as much as admitted to being scum by posting a joke vote (more on that when SnB actually flips) and contributing as little as possible to the thread. He is behaving as scum caught with his hands in the cookie jar, which is exactly what he is. Sure, there is nothing that conclusively links him to the scumteam so far, allowing him to be an SK or a member of a second scumteam, but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a non-town-aligned baddy. I am unclear on why you are making excuses for him. The easiest way to make sense of this is if you are scum and SnB is not on your scumteam. More information will be had after the flip. | ||
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On December 05 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town. It is strange you bring this up with regards to SnB, yet never mentioned anything like it with Toad. Why were you sure Toad was scum, yet are now bringing up 3P and second scumteams that we have NO evidence of (note, I made the previous post prematurely and hadn't read the rest of the discussion yet). | ||
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On December 05 2012 03:18 Clarity_nl wrote: There have barely been any damage claims other than me and oats taking damage from the mission. Makes me think scum is stacking to kill someone this cycle. Protective roles should keep this in mind It's possible the damage to you came from wrong choices in the fiendlord's keep. However, it is also possible scum targeted you two (and Djodref). We don't have enough information to say whether scum is saving KP or what is going on. Also, Syllo roleblocked 250 damage from SnB. | ||
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On December 05 2012 04:37 TheChronicler wrote: EBWOP: Hmm, we have to vote for an epoch, too? Looking through it doesn't look like there's a consensus anywhere. I'll vote for the time period I'm from. AD1000 Do you get a bonus there? | ||
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Also, Drazerk, you fool. My ability would have masoned you. I still get to mason other people on the next two nights, so you didn't screw it up too badly. At least we now know that Kita is not scum. Still 3P tho. | ||
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For the sake of interest: who got invited to his mason chat when Dieno died? | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:16 Promethelax wrote: So I guess Oats, Me and Kita aren't scum based on the actions claimed by SnB and VE. Why you? Oats took 250 damage. VE only claims he targeted you. Also Syllo bussing both Sandro AND SnB? Not gonna happen. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:17 CaveJohnson wrote: Now Now SnB knows my method of scum play. He would have been willing to shoot his own team mates if it won him the game. That's the main reason I don't have you down as confirmed town for SnB having targeted you with headbutt. Such an easy way for scum to gain town credit. Also, your whole interaction with him is weird this game. Still not sure what to make of SnB not simply going ballistic at you. Could be him playing careful scum... or you two being scum together. Haven't decided yet. However, the fact that you can make yourself completely invulnerable to attacks abilities for god knows how many cycles is making me think 3P rather than scum. I'm not feeling the town Drazerk this game. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:25 Keirathi wrote: One thing that is worrying me about drazerk: In every single game, no matter if they are town/town or scum/town, draz and S&B yell at each other and fight because they HATE each other. There was none of that this game? That's what I meant with the weird interaction between the two. Also, it's more of a love-hate relationship. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:25 Promethelax wrote: Are you retarded? SnB targeted me too. No idea about VE. I don't think Syllo is scum. I looked at actions and I can't justify it to myself. Also think that the flipped scum generally clear Hapa, this team would be retarded to play this out how they have played. Yeah, I meant SnB, not VE. I had you down as town anyway, so it's not a big deal you claiming this. I just don't see the confirmed. Here's my list, btw (no reasoning and horribly out of date. I'll do the reasoning sometime tomorrow on the scummers and nulls): Oats Syllo Clarity Keirathi TC Prom H1 Iamp Phagga GK Adam Kita CJ austinmcc risk.nuke Btw, my main problem with risk is that he is doing the same as last game: when he feels he/his team cannot win anymore he just afks out. A town risk.nuke would be more active and in your face. At the very least, he would be up in my face. He's not. Ergo, he is scum who has given up. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:35 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, I meant SnB, not VE. I had you down as town anyway, so it's not a big deal you claiming this. I just don't see the confirmed. Here's my list, btw (no reasoning and horribly out of date. I'll do the reasoning sometime tomorrow on the scummers and nulls): Oats Syllo Clarity Keirathi TC Prom Hapa H1 Iamp Phagga GK Adam Kita CJ austinmcc risk.nuke Btw, my main problem with risk is that he is doing the same as last game: when he feels he/his team cannot win anymore he just afks out. A town risk.nuke would be more active and in your face. At the very least, he would be up in my face. He's not. Ergo, he is scum who has given up. | ||
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On December 05 2012 08:00 Hapahauli wrote: I mean I'll switch cause I don't give a damn either way, but Acro - weren't you the one saying that you didn't trust Drazerk and wouldn't follow where he wants to go? He wanted to go to EoT. His reasoning for that was dodgy. If he changes his mind and wants to go somewhere else, I am cool with that. Main reasoning was Prom, anyway, who I have a town read on. Oh, and if Drazerk's main goal was to not go to 600AD, then I guess I helped him with that, but that just seems like a really weird goal. In that case I believe it's some funky supersticion, rather than malevolent manipulation. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:41 austinmcc wrote: Acro, is that scum risk's mo? He was silent all through bureaucracy even from D1. Can you give me a game to check where he fades out as his team starts losing? If he's done that, then I'm on board. ACME. Read the postgame. I thought he was fading out because we lynched two of his team mates. He was fading out because he thought scum knew who he was and he thought he had lost even if he managed to keep town off his back. It's not that he is ever particularly active, but in GoT mafia and DFM2 (games I played with town risk.nuke) he was active and posting ideas fairly consistently: it was clear he was reading the thread. This game I don't get that impression from him at all past D3 (basically when we caught Toad). | ||
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On a similar note: has anybody claimed damage tonight? | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:22 kitaman27 wrote: cave because I'm starting to get tired of giving him papercuts and hoping he dies from infection. Were you able to hit him last night? | ||
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On December 05 2012 21:07 CaveJohnson wrote: I was untargetable. Nothing could touch me last night Did I ask you? Derp. Anyway, why do you have to be alive when Lavos spawns? You just keep adding to your wacko "town" roleclaim. | ||
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On December 05 2012 21:07 CaveJohnson wrote: I jailed Kita didn't I? gimme some credit. Also I've already said - I need to be alive when Lavos spawns Grey knows me too well. Your self-stated motive for jailing Kita was to stop him from hitting you. | ||
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Also, that sounds way too much like some kind of 3P condition. It's not the same as mine: I have to stay alive until th end of the game. However, it does not sound like something a townie would need. On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. | ||
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I'll let town take the lead on this one, as I am not sure you're scum, but I have the distinct feeling it would be bad to have you around when we reach Lavos. Whether that is scum or 3P? I don't know. I just know you're bullshitting us and have been bullshitting us all game. It's time to end that. I want to vote for you so badly right now. Townies, lets lynch CJ? | ||
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On December 05 2012 21:07 CaveJohnson wrote: I jailed Kita didn't I? gimme some credit. Also I've already said - I need to be alive when Lavos spawns Grey knows me too well. On December 05 2012 21:32 CaveJohnson wrote: Sure lets lynch me Took all of 25 minutes? | ||
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It killed Toad just fine when he claimed he was unlynchable. I'm not afraid of you being a jester this game. | ||
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Zbo/austin is the only one who has so far not claimed any abilities. | ||
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On December 06 2012 00:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Maybe it seemed convenient for you at the time because you didn't want to pull another person into your tent. Find me a town motive for lying and I'll listen. Or explain to me in what realm of possiblity you have the only roleblock that hasn't been claimed yet. Or maybe his role doesn't need someone to be in the tent to do 200 damage. Or maybe it has some extra option that he didn't talk about. He said he'd invite Keirathi, changed his plans and to explain Keirathi not being in the tent claimed roleblocked. However, I am not sure risk is the only unclaimed roleblock. I thought I had more in my list. I will go and check. | ||
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Here are all the claims that either haven't been verified by someone else claiming the counterpart, or by mechanics (technically TC's claim isn't verified either, but I'm letting that slide) Kita claims 50 damage to CJ. CJ claims taking 25. CJ claims to reflect an action. Hapa claims flame protection on self. Zbo no claim at all. Iamp claims heal on Hapa. Hapa does not claim being healed (but also claims no damage, so /shrug) Clarity claims HP check on Marv (I believe this one is true, but it is still unverifiable) Oatsmaster claims shot on Sandro (see Acro for explanation) H1 claims self-damage. The shot on CJ the next day does not pan out. GK claims to be charging his vig hit. It IS consistent with his explanation of the ability. Keirathi claimed no action. Syllo claimed no action. Adam claimed a failed guess. Acro claimed damage to Sandro, Dieno and VE (only damage to Sandro can be verified together with Oatsmaster's damage, if you assume Sandro was not lying). The really dodgy ones, imho are: Kita's damage to CJ that is not backed up by CJ's claim. CJ's betrayal where nobody claims he was hit by his own spell, or even claims to have targeted CJ. Hapa's flame protection. Zbo not claiming anything at all ever. The other players have at least a plausible story in combination with the mechanics they claim. | ||
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N1: Marv and Sandro are roleblocked. Explained by Prom. N2: risk.nuke and Syllo are roleblocked. Keirathi claimed Syllo. Drazerk claimed to RB Djodref. N3: CJ and Prom are roleblocked. Syllo claims Prom. Nobody claimed Drazerk. N4: VE roleblocked. Syllo claims. N5: CJ and Hapa are roleblocked. Syllo claims Hapa. N6: Kita, Hapa and Iamp are roleblocked. Prom claims Iamp and Hapa and CJ claims Kita. SnB never claimed roleblocked. N7: no roleblocks. N2,3 and 5 all have wonky roleblock claims. Only thing that is stable in this is that Drazerk is involved all nights. | ||
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On December 06 2012 01:11 Hapahauli wrote: @Acro I'm not sure why you call it "dodgy", since apparently I'm one of your stronger town reads. It's not like I'm fake-claiming or anything. I have not seen any fire damage. Sandroba's dot is possibly related to that but even that doesn't specify it's fire damage. It *might* be related to Lavos, but then the wording you have seems too obtuse: why would Greymist drop 1 hint to 1 person about this? In other words, your claim is just plain weird. That's why it's dodgy. I have you as town because I thought your defense was genuine the last time you got into trouble. I thought your tunneling GK was also genuine. However, both can be faked by good scum. So yes, the claim is dodgy. That doesn't automatically make you scum, it just means there's something that needs explaining. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:06 Promethelax wrote: I believe it is time for a mass claim. Hapa's ability is theoretically pro town if he uses his flame retardent ability on those he thinks his flamethrower target will target. I wouldn't put it past GreY to have included that. Risk is well known for doing the counter intuitive thing with his ability or position (see pyp:r where, after the order had been chosen he ignored the plan totally and threw the game into chaos) and his use of his ability does mesh with that. I'm very wary of Syllo still being alive. Only way I can really see that is if all these low kp night have actually been afk scum. Which, in my mind, points towards a Risk/VE/SnB three man team after we killed Toad/Sand. Mass claim. Names and abilities. gogogo. Your mass claims are invariably bad. This one is no exception. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:10 austinmcc wrote: I can't account for the roleblocks or any missing actions. My role is different depending on the time period, but none of them match up.
If multiple people hit me in the same cycle, it's split amongst them.
Cycle 6 I shielded Syllo. Didn't know everyone's health values, dienosaur was dead before the end of cycle, and out of the people that were being treated as confirmed town, syllo seemed the strongest player to me. <snip> Why shield rather than heal? This sounds very strange. Given that shields don't give a notification I am not sure I trust you on this. If I had a choice between a 150 heal and a 75 shield, I would definitely heal. Other healers: do you feel the amount he can heal for is inline with what you can do? | ||
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Adam claimed he damaged you in N5. You are claiming you could counterattack him in N7. Please explain this ability a LOT better. 300 damage is also far more than anybody except Drazerk has claimed he can do (oh, and H1, but he has to hit himself before he can shoot). | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:42 kitaman27 wrote: I can account for the missing roleblocks. I didn't claim it earlier because I felt there was little reason to at the time with the lynches already decided. I couldn't rb night one, night two I was on nuke, three and four I was on toad, five and seven on cave, and six on VE. Just because the roleblock on risk is accounted for, doesn't mean that he is clear. I've already brought up the over enthusiastic town read on sandroba day one and how he shows a contradiction in logic when defending GK for shooting Cave, yet providing a scum read on myself who also shot cave. The use of his role is silly from a town perspective and he provides very few opinions. That being said...town having 3 roleblockers, compared to the single roleblocker flip from the scum team is quite strange...especially considering sandroba couldn't roleblock every cycle and there are so many blues the mafia has to deal with. We know Cave has a roleblocking ability that he claims is a jail. I have a town read on syllo and a slightly weaker town read on prom (mainly due to the strength of his role). Cave, I'm quite disappointed that you decided to pass on the opportunity to provide us with 16 fake claims in the same post. You have a reputation to uphold! This just makes shit even weirder. N3: CJ claimed roleblocked yet you claim to roleblock Toad. I got news, because I did that. N6: CJ claimed he could levitate. Nights 3 and 4 you claimed you hit CJ for 50 damage. Now that is in addition to roleblocking Toad? | ||
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My actions: N1: hoped for mason, was a multishot. 75 damage to Dieno, Sandro and BioSC/VE. N2: hoped for DT check, got a DT check on Toad. N3: hoped for a big nuke. Got a nuke + jail. Did 100 damage and jailed Toad. N4: hoped for a damage redirector. Got a useless shield. Was supposed to shield me for equal to the damage my target took. Targeted Kita, who probably took 0 damage. Also possible that I took 75 damage from the event and my shield was not yet working. N5: hoped for a nuke, got a "player cannot target you for 2 cycles", but it failed anyway. I targeted Toad just in case he didn't die to the lynch. N6: hoped for a nuke, got a special kind of watcher/tracker thing that is completely useless now, but would've been nice if I hadn't yet fulfilled my wincon. Targeted CJ N7: hoped for a nuke, got a QT. Targeted CJ. All my actions are breadcrumbed rather awesomely. However, they are breadcrumbed by action name, which if I reveal reveals my rolename, which I am not going to do. If you really want, I can give you my fakeclaim and the corresponding action names from my fake claim. I still have 2 abilities left that I can only use on myself. I suspect one is a heal and the other is a damage reflection. However, I have only been right ONCE with my guesses of what my abilities do and that is because the ability was called "Mind Read". | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote: What was your secondary wincon? If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename. | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:07 Hapahauli wrote: Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already. Absolutely true. The fact that I took 0 damage for a few cycles despite claiming is making me less paranoid about there being someone wanting to kill me. However, if there are more SnB-like abilities out there, I prefer they hit other people than me. Call it a survivor mentality | ||
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How could you roleblock Toad while also shooting Drazerk (two nights in a row)? How did you roleblock Drazerk on N7 when I got the report that my ability could not target Drazerk? Unanswerable: why did Toad claim the roleblock on N3, but not on N4? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 00:44 Acrofales wrote: Hrmmm. What was your town read of GK based on at this point? In fact, explain Djodref as well. So far, you have managed to say you didn't have a town read on Oats (which I agreed with at the time, so I didn't think too much into it, but suspicious minds would say you were trying to manipulate town off the party)... and you didn't trust Syllo, without any further explanation. You then throw a seemingly random town read on GK out there. That is what I meant with trust, btw. Your usual meta is to be aggressive and angry at everybody. Your friendliness towards GK feels strange. This is how you justify it a couple of hours later: I feel I need something more to justify this weak-ass vote on a weak-ass candidate. I am not understanding your thought process this game, which is somewhat unusual, because you're usually far more transparent. Then comes the whole Sandroba ordeal. There are two ways of reading this: a townie who think Sandroba might be scum, but isn't sure... and scum waiting for Sandro to give him any reasonable opportunity to not bus his scumbuddy. Not much more to say on this issue. However, this is interesting: Post in question: This was one of the posts that set alarm bells off in my mind (and I believe some other players' minds too). I am thus completely and utterly confused: why did this give you a town read on him? How the hell do you go from "Chronicler provides a bad excuse to drop his plan and sheep the majority" to "town read"? And here we have some more buttfuck terrible reasoning: TC voted for Syllo when Syllo was building momentum and everybody else was losing it. You are a good player. You KNOW there would be scum on a wagon like that. Why is TC's complete throwaway reason a town tell? There's some other incongruencies: Pretty much the first mention of Kitaman in the game. While I don't think Kita's case was particularly strong and risk is justified in ridiculing it, I am surprised about him asserting that Kita is "scummy". This feels a lot like an OMGUS to just discredit the case off the bat. A case being wrong/bad doesn't make the poster scummy, it makes him wrong/bad. We never actually get to know why Kita was "scummy". What had Kita done at the time? In fact, for someone claiming a scum read on Kita, there is remarkably little interaction between the two. There is no explanation of the read, no attempt to learn more about Kita, nothing. Risk, why did you think Kita was scum? Do you still think so? Why? Further questions: Why did you want to be party leader on D3? I understand the "party was bad" reasoning, but regardless of alignment, you have enough brains to know you had 0 town cred and would never ever get elected in a million years. The decision to try to run just seems really really strange. I can think of a "desperate scum" motivation though. And given that scum was in a pretty bad shape after D1 and D2, desperation is a decent guess of the scum state of mind at that point. Your reason for not wanting to take Dieno along sounds incredibly forced. You honestly expect us to believe you thought that Dieno's HP would play a bigger role than the fact that he is about as close to confirmed town as we can get without flips? I know you have already been asked this by someone (Djodref I believe), but your answers were thoroughly unsatisfactory. Try again. I will compile this post in bite-size gulps for you: 1. Why did you have a town read on GK and Djodref during d1? 2. Please explain how the post you linked from TC gave you a town read on him? 3. Are you maintaining that Kita posting a trolly campaign made him scum in your mind? 4. Why did you want to be party leader D3? Why did you think this would be constructive? However, this was rather a long time ago. Since then I have gotten more suspicious. Firstly, when I claim 3P he starts really wanting to lynch me, up to the point of misrepresenting my words just to make me look scummy: What I said:+ Show Spoiler [backup votes] + On November 30 2012 02:15 Acrofales wrote: What happens if the elected party leader is killed before the event? Seems to me we probably need a backup. I suggest Keirathi as first choice (with preferred group the D1 party) and Clarity as second. Best to even include a 3rd (Syllo or Oats?) just to ensure Toad's single vote does not cause havoc. Also, I won't be switching to GK until I've read his filter (or probably after); I have started a couple of times, but it is long and makes heavy use of run-on sentences like this one, which means that it is really not easy to read. In any case, I think I prefer a risk.nuke lynch. He is being extremely uncooperative. Combine that with something that sounds like a bogus roleclaim and a really dodgy policy for his masonQT selection. A tent with a crystal ball makes me think of the prophet. Not sure he has a tent, but he is a fortune teller. Paraphrased in the context of D5: I want risk.nuke as a backup lynch in case there is some system that makes Toad unlynchable. What risk claims I said: On November 30 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Acro wants to kill me over confirmed scum. I see, you claimed to be pro-town third party right? What happened: risk dropped out of the thread and I had said what I had to say. I had no intention of lynching him over Toad and he was not being considered for a party in cycle 6. What risk claims happened: On November 30 2012 20:59 risk.nuke wrote: Very interesting that Prom and Acro attacked me hard when syllogism led them to believe he thought I was scum and dropped it like a stone when he stated he was merely suspicious of me. This can obviously be explained as paranoid townie behaviour who is heavily OMGUSing. However, paranoid OMGUSing is generally considered a scumtell. Note the complete lack of scumhunting. He doesn't even bother to call me (or Promethelax) scum. He just throws the suspicion out there in the hope that it sticks. The meta-read. Cycle 1: risk is active and I saw very little suspicious in his behaviour. Cycle 2 his reasoning for voting Sandro is rather strange, he gets called out for it and it still sounds strange. However, I don't consider this indicative of alignment, because it is not really indicative of bussing either. Cycle 3 risk's activity drops off. Possible explanation: Sandro dead, Toad caught, VE and SnB inactive. If there are 5 scum and risk is the 5th, I can totally get into the mindset of him feeling defeated and no longer interested in the game. In fact, the "feeling defeated and no longer interested in the game" was why his activity dropped off as an SK in Acme mafia. Now on to his other games. Here is bureaucracy, when called out why he was doing jack shit that game: On July 20 2012 02:37 risk.nuke wrote: lol, I can't believe you believe in your post. But back to that in a second. Well, why I'm doing jack shit right now. I know kurumi is scum and thanks to RoL beeing dumb he's still alive. And that is like having a pointy rock in my shoe. It's hard to motivate myself to focus on anyone else before it's gone. And it may be day 2 but we haven't had a lynch yet. So it's only day 2 by name. We do not have a lynch to look at for information. <snip> The next few days he does nothing, with this justification: On July 25 2012 07:19 risk.nuke wrote: What do you mean I've just been floating under the radar. I've not been playing irc mafia and got 20+page filter. I'm also am aware that I haven't really made cases but not because of lack of wanting to. I just haven't been able to motivate myself into doing it when people are already voicing their suspicion against my targets. If I don't need to convince them i don't need to make a case. And not making cases is not the same as not having reads. And he finally gets lynched. In the meantime he did NO scumhunting of his own and simply followed the flock of townies like a good little sheep. Now on to Liquid City: We get a similar justification for his lurk On October 08 2012 09:06 risk.nuke wrote: You say lurking but I atleast am more simmilar to afk. I'm on a break because nothing is happening in this game, the last 40 pages are useless and might well not have existed because too many are just waiting for it to come to an end. we have our lynch and there isn't anything else to it. Too me personally I can't be bothered to make a case for the lynch 3 days from now, I can't motivate myself for that. Not to mention that after the nightflips you will have better information hence making time spent scumhunting post nightflips more effective then before the flip. This is how I feel and that is all to it. And you might have been forced to be away and unable to scumhunt but you're here now and I'm telling you your case does not impress me the slightest. If this is the best you'll give us I'll lynch you because I know you can do alot better then those sorry lines for scumhunting. However, he comes back immediately with some scumhunting of his own and has OPINIONS about people. After excusing himself for lurking, he posts 4 pages of filter with actual content. He pushes people. He may have been wrong about Mattchew, but he was hard on his case for a little while. It was clear whom risk thought was scum. He also made his opinion of people killing the cop at what was apparently mylo (?) abundantly clear. This game: does anybody even know who risk.nuke has a scumread on? Anybody? Someone risk called scum in the last 5 days or so? I sure as hell couldn't find it in his filter. He dropped into the thread to vote for SnB and then buggered off again. How is this in any way similar to his town meta, where, even if he is not very active, he pushes his reads? | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:50 austinmcc wrote: So the point was that you, who are almost certainly lying about AT LEAST one aspect of your role, could claim what you did, some/most of which you'd already claimed in thread. What is it you're trying to say? I have a hard time figuring out what you're accusing me of here. PS. I am not lying. | ||
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On December 06 2012 04:35 austinmcc wrote: I'm trying to figure out what part of your stuff this game I don't believe. I know some of it is likely true, other bits false. Haven't checked Drazerk and Kita's full filters yet after looking through yours, but will work on that this evening. Yeah, I'm not accusing you of anything specific there, because...I don't know what to accuse you of yet. But you make it out like you did town this big favor by claiming where you'd used your actions so "you guys" can "solve the game." When in all likelihood, that's crap. A lot/all(?) your actions were in thread already, so you weren't handing down divine information that nobody knew. And you refuse to answer questions that town wants answered. I don't think anyone is buying what you're selling, but I don't like that you're trying to sell it anyway. 3 of the 7 actions I performed were in the thread. I admit that 3 of my other actions had no impact on the game, but the damage + jail on Toad needed claiming if there is any hope of scumhunting by finding incongruous actions. I fail to see why claiming my rolename and secondary wincon help town at all. You suspect me of lying anyway. Why will claiming magically confirm me as town-friendly? I have said I am town-friendly. I have acted town-friendly. Me talking about me helps absolutely nobody catch scummers. So read my filter by all means, conclude that me being on a scumteam with Toad and SnB would be mindbogglingly stupid. Conclude that me claiming to not want to be on a party as scum would be mindbogglingly stupid. Keep your suspicions about my ulterior motives (I don't see how my claiming would help you with those anyway), but get to scumhunting. | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote: I call it counterattack because that's basically what it does, but it doesn't require the same cycle, and it's not actually "Counterattack". If I use that ability, it just looks at the last point at which I was dealt damage, and then splits my damage between all players who dealt me damage at that point. Until I'm damaged otherwise, you'd be eating the full 300 if you're being truthful about being the sole source of damage on me that night, as I haven't been hit since then. So.. austin has a shitload of KP with pretty much no condition except era? How does this match up with other town claimed abilities: 1. H1 can do less damage per shot and only if he hits himself first. 2. GK can do half the damage per shot and it takes 3 days to charge. 3. Hapa can do lots of damage (more than Austin), but is more likely to hit townies with most of it, even if his initial shot hits scum. 4. Adam has to play NK roulette in order to get a shot which does LESS damage. Or even scum claimed abilities: 1. Sandro can do 200 damage, spread out over 4 days. 2. SnB can hit for 250 damage, once per player per game and only if they are dumb enough to roleclaim. 3. Toad can do 100 damage per night (probably most similar in total amount of damage) There are only two abilities that can even approach that amount of damage: Drazerk's claimed EMP, which is almost certainly a lie and definitely a lie in how much damage it does. Kush's 1-shot dayvig. However, this is balanced by being 1-shot and having a risk of suiciding (although only if you use it as a complete derp like he did). I am having a hard time wrapping my head around giving town this amount of KP, which seems to top what scum can do. | ||
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On November 21 2012 14:10 Z-BosoN wrote: @Djodref I've never played with sandroba nor am I familiar with his meta. There are a lot of people here that are though (lots of vets), so I'm taking an overall town perspective. This is an assumption of course, but I think it's a fair one. Is this inline with Zbo's reasoning as town? He is willing to vote Sandro blindly on the assertion that "there are people who can figure Sandro out". Anybody familiar enough with Zbo's meta to tell me whether this is normal? | ||
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On December 06 2012 05:50 syllogism wrote: I mean he claims using shield n2 on keirathi even though Dienosore took 445 damage n1 Also, Keirathi took 75 damage in cycle 4, same as GK and I, which I assume is linked to being in a failed party. Of course, this evidence is inconclusive, because we don't know whether he took damage cycle 2 or 3 that was blocked by the shield. However, it'd have to be exactly 75 damage to show up as it did. | ||
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There are some posts that just don't sit right with me, but it could be the problem of English as a second language. His vote for Sandro D1 is not really indicative of alignment. His reasoning for the vote might be, but depends on meta. He never hopped off, but scum could easily have hopped off: Sandro wasn't getting elected. His vote for Toad on D2 is also not indicative of alignment. He spends most of the day tunneling TC and never leaves off his scum read, however it was clear that TC was not going to be lynched. Choices were basically Sandro and Toad and a non-Sandro vote is consistent with his D1 behaviour. After the lynch he makes a couple of posts accusing various people of being scum, but his activity drops off and he never follows up with actions. I will have to look at VE and SnB's filters to see if there's any associative tells, but Zbo's filter doesn't give me much to work with. At the moment I am liking the test. Austin healing H1 seems like a pretty good idea. H1 is an unlikely target for other protection and I think he's probably town. Lets see if he can get that heal. Back to deciding between CJ and risk which one is worse. | ||
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On December 06 2012 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote: They don't as far as my role pm, but I'm currently VT and my flavor says my keg is empty. Being from the middle ages, I figure its the best place to get a refill. Alternatively my HP is too low. By my count I still have a fully charges shot left (and 1 HP remaining) but I'm not allowed to hit myself to unlock it and I don't know why. Lol. I guess saving H1 might not be a good idea. Case 1: austin is town. He heals H1. Scum nails H1 with 151+ damage. H1 dies and we know nothing. Case 2: austin is scum. He nails H1 with any damage at all. H1 dies and we know nothing. Test result: inconclusive. Only advantage is keeping scum KP off people like Syllo. | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:54 strongandbig wrote: fuck i was really happy that i was gonna get to play a themed game without drazerk in it but no I knew there was something bothering me about scum SnB+Drazerk. Why would SnB blow his scumbuddy's cover? I guess it's possible Drazerk was already planning on claiming and said so in the QT, so SnB just got in on the action. But it doesn't feel like that. It feels like this: On November 22 2012 08:09 strongandbig wrote: yeah I got to your post a couple minutes after I posted that is genuine. | ||
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He does not mention Zbo/austin or risk.nuke at all. | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:03 Hopeless1der wrote: @Acro Given that I have more than 1 HP (i.e. a little more difficult to kill), are you still against me getting the potential heal from austin? I'll claim my current HP before the deadline if it helps. If you feel scum would have to put significant effort into killing you, then I think you're a good target for healing by austin. | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:15 CaveJohnson wrote: <snip> 12,000 BC (While dangerous we probably need to go there to weaken Lavos and actually win the game and I can guarantee a success with a Chipotle ham sandwhich with pancakes as bread drizzled with syrup) This sounds disgusting, but made me giggle. Does this depend on you being in the party? If so, it's not going to happen. Also, are you targetable this cycle? I want to mason chat you. You're bound to be more fun than anybody else here and the tactical value of my mason chat is near 0, so I might as well waste it on enabling skype convos with you WITHOUT Hassy. | ||
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N1 - shoot 50 damage at CJ, could not RB 600AD N2 - RB risk, no damage. 1000 AD N3 - RB toad AND 50 damgae at CJ Future N4 - RB toad AND 50 damage at CJ EoT N5 - RB CJ, no damage Prehistory N6 - RB VE, no damage 600AD N7 - RB CJ, no damage Antiquity I can see no pattern based on era. Also no pattern based on "can only roleblock whom he damaged". Mind explaining a bit more? | ||
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The claims: 1. Drazerk claims "Levitation", making him untargettable. He does not claim roleblocked. 2. Acro claims using an ability on Drazerk and being told it could not activate on Drazerk. 3. Kita claims he roleblocked Drazerk and it went through. Claims 1 and 2 cohere. Claim 3 cannot be true if these are true. Assume claim 3 is true, then there are two possibilities: 1. Levitation was activated in a previous cycle. However, then Drazerk would be untargettable and thus unable to be roleblocked. Direct contradiction with claim 3. Claim 1 must be false. However, if claim 1 is false, then claim 2 is false as well. 2. Drazerk was roleblocked and unable to cast Levitation. However, then he would've been notified of the roleblock and I would have been able to target him. Therefore claims 1 and 2 are false. While it is normal for me to expect Drazerk to be lying, the mod tells the truth. Greymist told me my action failed. He did not say I was roleblocked, just that my action failed. Drazerk being untargettable would be a pretty good explanation of that. However, I am not clear on how VE and Kita could be a scumteam together. There are really only two (outside) possibilities I can think of: 1. The scumteam decided really early on that using BioSC's abilities was not really worth it on the first 2 nights (after which they were never used again), and they fakeclaimed in order to distance VE and Kita from each other. This seems absurd. 2. BioSC targeted Dienosore, who used Slurp Slash on Kita. The random action that got redirected was the guessing game. Either this happened 2 nights in a row, or on N2 VE didn't send in an action and Kita took advantage of it to strengthen the distancing. While I can imagine BioSC targeting Dieno with it, I see no indication in Dieno's filter of him even considering Kita as a target for his shot. Additionally, Kita didn't claim the 50 damage. Which makes me wonder: why is Kita lying about his night actions? | ||
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On December 06 2012 17:59 Promethelax wrote: that is to say only if the town is comfortable with me, after you act in me, as a party member. It is something to debate, which we need. You're doing that thing where you believe Drazerk. Rule 1 of playing with Drazerk. Unless he is modconfirmed town, mistrust everything he says. If he is modconfirmed town, only mistrust half. | ||
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On December 06 2012 22:09 kitaman27 wrote: lol If I didn't target Cave with my roleblock, who did I target? So I was the strongest opponent to a scum sandroba election, I roleblocked a scum toad twice, I got targeted by VE's abilities, I roleblocked a scum VE, I mentioned multiple times that I thought VE was scum, I caught S&B in his fake claim, and I've been targeting Cave (and hopeless once n2) with my night hits. Clearly my strategy is to bus my entire team, shoot the troll, and hope Lavos can take out the 15+ remaining townies. @syllo, does a roleclaim benefit us right now? I'm clearly not scum, only the third party player is suspicious of me, and revealing how my role works provides the mafia team with extra information. Like I said before, I'd be willing to claim if Acro wants to come clean. At least that benefits town information wise. If you had read my post you would also have seen that I don't think you're scum. Doesn't mean I don't think you're lying. As for claiming, I don't know why you're trying to connect my claiming my identity to you claiming how your ability works. I don't really care about having the knowledge out there. I care about resolving things that don't make sense. Your claiming helps with the second part. My claiming anything further is only putting information in the thread for the sake of sating your curiosity. As for whom you roleblocked? Maybe you didn't roleblock anybody. You've only roleblocked 2 people who have claimed and not been counterclaimed. While you seem to have a roleblock, I am starting to doubt you have used it every night since N1. Did you breadcrumb your roleblocks before they happened? Because claiming roleblocks on scum posthumously is a pretty easy thing to do. I think you're probably 3P and your wincon may or may not be helpful to town. My guess is that it's not. However, it's probably not worth lynching you for, with risk.nuke pretty much claiming scum with his absence. @Syllo: you have not roleblocked someone who was untargettable and had your action fizzle. | ||
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On December 06 2012 23:30 Promethelax wrote: How many 3p do you think exist Acro? No clue, but 2 doesn't sound outrageous. | ||
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##Lynch risk.nuke ##Epoch Middle Ages All the cool kids want to go to the middle ages. I don't care. | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:24 CaveJohnson wrote: We still have the sandwich to discuss you know... What's there to discuss? You are claiming that if you use it on someone in the party we cannot fail the event. That seems ridiculous. However, I don't see much harm in it either. I am not opposed to having Prom on a party and if the party fails, you are next on the chopping block. It's pretty simple. | ||
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On December 07 2012 07:59 CaveJohnson wrote: Acro gets the sandvitch expect only 50 damage You're an idiot. | ||
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Also, GK and Syllo confirmed town? | ||
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N1 - reflect one ability onto its caster N2 - roleblock Djodreff N3 - roleblocked N4 - nuked Toad N5 - roleblocked N6 - jail Kita N7 - untargettable N8 - make party infallible if Acro is in it (probably only for 1 cycle) They were also in the spreadsheet. It's really not that hard. | ||
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On December 07 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote: did you get any notification of receiving an item? Me? No. Just got told that Drazerk is the Master of Kitchens. Fat lot of good that did me. | ||
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On December 07 2012 12:41 iamperfection wrote: i got 50 damage and a role bock as well that wasn't claimed Fairly certain your roleblock was claimed by Prom. You said you healed Clarity the night that Prom said he shielded him. I am not seeing where Oats claimed the 75 damages that have been flying around, however for the whole N1 shield on Hapa it seems quite obvious to me. Unless scum did 175 damage, either Zbo or Hapa is lying. I will have to go over Hapa's filter again and risk.nuke's filter might contain some associative tells: at least he has more content than any of the scum we flipped before. For the meantime, lets try to figure out night actions. Did anybody target Hapa with anything on N1 or N2? If Hapa is lying and Zbo telling the truth, it is possible Hapa did his flame thrower thingy and inadvertently did damage to himself. If Zbo is lying, then there probably is no damage shield. Claimed actions targeting Hapa: I see a heal from Iamperfection. Iamperfection didn't claim being hit by 100 damage, so there was no flamethrower there. I see a self-target of the flame protect from Hapa. Even if we assume that was a lie, it still doesn't explain 75 damage. Unclaimed: Dieno targeting Hapa still makes no sense of the damage. Sandro was roleblocked into dead. VE targeted Kita. SnB and risk.nuke don't have a 75 damage shot. So none of the dead people seem to have targeted Hapa. Nothing that has been claimed so far can explain the missing damage. If you targeted Hapa on N1 or N2 for any reason, please say so now. | ||
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Syllo - was in the tent, successful party and nailed Sandro and SnB TC - nailed Toad when there was no reason for it from a scum perspective. Overall townie filter GK - was in the tent, all scum tried to get him killed (except risk) Prom - was shot by SnB, abilities pan out Oats - was shot by SnB, was on a successful party, abilities pan out Iamperfection - I was going to put him with the strong reads, but saw some weird things with his heals. Please claim who you targeted on N7? Kita - scum seems too weird. Could be 3P with a good fakeclaim. However, town for now. Hapa - Syllo roleblocked him last night and he went nowhere. Forgot to send in abilities. Also filter is moderately townie. Negative points for weird claim and being in quite a number of claim controversies. H1 - filter-based I say town. Ability is consistent and makes sense lore-wise. However, his targets have not been verified. Damage on Drazerk is outright missing. Cannot verify damage on Toad. Only confirmed shot is Hapa. Phagga - cannot verify based on abilities. Filter is moderately townie, but not much there. Adam - same story. Zbo/austin - claim is not making sense so far. Null filter. Elimination game makes him scum. | ||
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Acro - Friendly 3P Pushed hard against Toad when Sandro was on the line. Helped nail SnB. Has been after risk.nuke since D3.Also, there seems to be a heal missing on N8. I presume Clarity healed someone before he died? | ||
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On December 07 2012 22:39 iamperfection wrote: healed oats on cycle 7 he said he was at full health Okay, that makes sense. I also forgot the reason you were a strong read in the first place was all that ruckus around Hapa not getting healed. Move yourself back up to the strong town reads. | ||
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On December 05 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: However, 450 is a weird amount of damage to take. Did anyone else target me? 150 damage from risk and 300 from Austin makes sense. However, that would assume Austin can target whoever he likes (in antiquity at least). | ||
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Who healed Iamp on N2? What happened with the whole Levitate vs. Roleblock deal with Drazerk? Who hit Acro, Iamp, Clarity and Djodreff with 20, and 30 damage N1 and N2? There is also quite a bit of small amounts of damage that is unclaimed. Syllo got hit for 50 on N1. Kita got hit for 50 on N2. TC got hit for 50 on N3. Zbo got hit for 75 on N4. Iamp got hit for 50 on N6. Can we get claims for this damage please? Making sense of Drazerk: I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Drazerk was actually hit for all the damage he claimed he didn't take. He had 500 health. Lets count: 50 damage N1 126 damage N2 201 damage N3 50 damage on N4 0 on N5, N6 and N7. Total before N8: 427 Either Oats' 75 damage or GK's shot finished him off. So all the missing damage on Drazerk could be accounted for by simply assuming he was lying about how much damage he took. The levitate vs. roleblock thing still makes no sense to me. It's possible that the levitate is targeted: he has to choose someone (or someones) who cannot target him. My ability is targeted. I have to actually pick someone who cannot target me. The lack of a sandwich also makes no sense unless someone roleblocked him tonight. Kita, did you RB Drazerk? | ||
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On December 07 2012 23:48 austinmcc wrote: Wut. This is a bunch of votes. Now I can get lynched in TWO games, joy. Yes, but I can't. (1) A 300 damage nuke with no restrictions doesn't make sense given what we've seen (Adam gets 200 from guessing, SnB had 250 from knowing a name, risk had some but had to mason the person). (2) Are there any other instances of 300 unclaimed damage? If not, then, assuming I'm scum, why would I only just now have hit someone with that ability? Only usable in Antiquity? It's plausible. | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:16 austinmcc wrote: Ugh. I go to find another cycle you guys were there before I joined and there wasn't any nuke...but the only cycle that happened in Z-BosoN was MIA so it doesn't show anything. So my second point isn't what I want it to be. Yeah, I thought of this. You claimed future you could nuke and didn't on N3. Problem is that that is the night Marv died, which took a minimum of 550 KP. Toad was roleblocked, Marv was not in risk's chatroom and I find it highly unlikely that SnB managed to guess Marv's name. That leaves whatever abilities the final scummer has + factional KP. | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote: Any townies want to claim that damage or some of that damage? Z-BosoN didn't take an action Cycle 3. Lets take a different approach. If you are not scum, then who is? | ||
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I can't get much out of it, best I can do with it is conclude that GK, Clarity, Keirathi, Syllo, Chronicler, Kita and Prom are probably not scum. + Show Spoiler [full conclusions] + People risk.nuke did not talk to/about (or talked to so little that it doesn't count): VE/BioSC SnB Zbo/Austin Phagga Iamperfection Adam Clarity Marv People risk.nuke calls scum: Toad VE/BioSC (Kita) Adam CJ (well, wants him dead) People risk.nuke throws random suspicions at and/or tries to discredit: Prom Acro (Kita) Syllo Dieno People risk.nuke calls town (sometimes indirectly): GK Djodref Marv Syllo Keirathi Chronicler Dienosore Clarity | ||
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On December 05 2012 23:00 Adam4167 wrote: I think he called Kita a scummy player at one point, does that count? And yeah, the night actions from the scum this game have been all over the place, has literally made my role useless, so bravo guys. Mind claiming who you tried to guess for the last few nights? | ||
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He didn't push his Zbo scum read when there wasn't a "confirmed" scum to lynch and we killed risk.nuke. On the other hand, he didn't try to move the lynch off risk.nuke either. He has some posts that could be considered soft-defenses of risk, but he never tries to push any alternative lynch either, but is content to see where the thread goes. It could be a scum hoping to fly under the radar, or a fairly inactive townie. There also doesn't seem to be enough comparison material for me. His last scumgame was LVI which doesn't seem representative, because he was modkilled for inactivity. I can't find anything else that is even remotely recent. I do find that he plays fairly similar to this as town. TLDR: while Adam makes sense and seems to be a voice of reason in the thread, his scumhunting is rather limited and seems to focus on easy cases. I see nothing obviously scummy, but it's not conclusively town either. Next up: Phagga. | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Not going to tell you. Well if austin can write a long post about 4 people, he can write a really long post for the person that he thinks is scum. Can you explain any of the damage I asked about in a post today? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [here] + On December 07 2012 23:58 Acrofales wrote: Open questions: Who healed Iamp on N2? What happened with the whole Levitate vs. Roleblock deal with Drazerk? Who hit Acro, Iamp, Clarity and Djodreff with 20, and 30 damage N1 and N2? There is also quite a bit of small amounts of damage that is unclaimed. Syllo got hit for 50 on N1. Kita got hit for 50 on N2. TC got hit for 50 on N3. Zbo got hit for 75 on N4. Iamp got hit for 50 on N6. Can we get claims for this damage please? Making sense of Drazerk: I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Drazerk was actually hit for all the damage he claimed he didn't take. He had 500 health. Lets count: 50 damage N1 126 damage N2 201 damage N3 50 damage on N4 0 on N5, N6 and N7. Total before N8: 427 Either Oats' 75 damage or GK's shot finished him off. So all the missing damage on Drazerk could be accounted for by simply assuming he was lying about how much damage he took. The levitate vs. roleblock thing still makes no sense to me. It's possible that the levitate is targeted: he has to choose someone (or someones) who cannot target him. My ability is targeted. I have to actually pick someone who cannot target me. The lack of a sandwich also makes no sense unless someone roleblocked him tonight. Kita, did you RB Drazerk? | ||
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On December 08 2012 10:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt, I dont really want to explain why. Oh those, I hit z-bo, dont know about the rest. Hrmmm, so on N4 you used a reflection-like ability which hit SnB for 100 damage AND shot Zbo for 75? | ||
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On December 08 2012 10:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Stuff, I really dont see that its worth claiming. There is unclaimed damage lying about. You shot people. It might give us a lead into finding who shot whom and thus whom is scum. Why are you so secretive about this aspect of your role, when you threw out your name the first chance you got (which is the part you should be keeping secret). | ||
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On December 03 2012 08:01 phagga wrote: I agree. I breadcrumbed my name, it is not golem. Saw those posts too late. Give us the crumb! | ||
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Anyway, I'm out of time. I didn't come upon anything obviously scummy. If given a choice between Adam and Phagga I would prefer to lynch Phagga, but I still prefer austin over either, although this is by far the least sure I have been of a lynch since the Sandro lynch. ##Lynch: austinmcc Epoch: Antiquity Lets go kill Queen Zeal in Antiquity. Prehistory is for wusses. | ||
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1. I am Magus. I clearly have mommy issues, because my wincon was to kill Queen Zeal. Her fascination with Lavos caused me to be ripped from time and I want revenge. The reason I don't know what my spells do is because I am blind with rage and all my spells are powerful, so I don't care what I cast. Having to kill Queen Zeal is the main reason I claimed the redcheck when I really didn't have one. My plan was to wait until we had a lynch cycle and then really push Toad. I planned on using his rolename to convince town that Queen Zeal couldn't be town and to get him lynched. In the meantime I would try to shoot him with anything I had and hope he died. However, when TC claimed the red check and Toad fakeclaimed, I just took the FAR easier way out: I knew Toad's roleclaim was fake, but just a name check is not a town role. At the time I didn't want to claim anything yet and so needed a way of getting his name into the thread without being automatically branded 3P (or second scumteam). Claiming one-shot name and alignment seemed like it was at least plausible for town to have, so I claimed a second red check on Toad together with the name (of course, I had to claim 3P not much later anyway, so I should probably not have bothered). Anyway, I was 99.9% sure he was scum at the time anyway because of 1. his behaviour, 2. TC's red check and 3. the fakeclaim, so I didn't think that bit would make much difference. The reason I didn't immediately claim the alignment check was fake after we lynched Toad is because there was not much reason to and because it would make it really clear that I really really wanted Toad to die, up to the point where I fake a red check. People in this game are smart and would've been able to put Magus together from that. My later actions have mainly focused on scumhunting in the traditional way, because when given a choice I prefer to win with town than with scum... and scumhunting was pretty easy for most of this game, with them claiming scum in the thread and all. I used most of my remaining actions on Drazerk, because he is Drazerk. I only started crumbing on D3 after I was forced to claim 3P. I asked for a fakeclaim to be a similar blind JOAT role, but not called Magus. Grey gave me Masa & Mune: because my parts are broken, they are out of synch and don't know what they are doing. It's a bit of a shame I never got to use it, because I thought it was a rather amazing fakeclaim. Anyway, that breadcrumb is here: On November 29 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote: I guess I can switch my vote to Dino. After all, all the townies are doing it. Maybe he'll even get Masamune. <snip> Here are my actions with breadcrumbs. D1. Dark Matter. I knew this might be a multi-shot nuke based on this name, rather than the mason channel I hoped for, so I targeted Sandroba, because if the ability gave me a mason chat, then awesome, if not, then he was still a lurker at the end of D1 and I didn't feel bad shooting him. BioSC, because mason channels help lurkers get more active, at least in the chat. I already shot BioSC for lurking in Bastard 2 and wanted to know his alignment. Once again, though, if it turned out to be a nuke, no harm done. And Dienosore, because I was totally paranoid about Frog having some part of his wincon to kill Magus, which would've made total sense to me. D2. Mind Read. Not much to say about this. Figured it would be some kind of check and it was. D3. Black Hole on Toad. Breadcrumb here (I see I messed it up a bit ):On November 27 2012 00:30 Acrofales wrote: It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers. Enigma is a dota hero best known for his ultimate: black hole. Hawking is an astrophysicist best known for his work figuring out how black holes work. The target is the guy I quoted. Out of all the abilities I had left, I thought Black Hole the most likely to do lots of damage. It ended up doing 100 and jailing Toad. D4: Shadow Shield on Kitaman and myself. I was paranoid about my 3P claim and thought people would try to shoot me. However, I thought Shadow Shield might also protect myself and my target, or bus myself with my target, so didn't want to target Toad. Kita was they guy I was most paranoid about, so I used it on him. Ended up protecting me equal to the damage the target took. Kita took 0 damage, so it didn't work at all. I am rather proud of the breadcrumb: On November 29 2012 07:33 Acrofales wrote: While waiting, I've been going over Kitaman's filter. On the face of things I don't see scum, but I expect Marv was right about 3rd party. Don't believe me, believe Marv instead, who spent a considerable amount of time when he was alive trying to figure Kita out: + Show Spoiler [Marv's case] + On November 25 2012 02:48 marvellosity wrote: kitaman27 There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign. Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote: THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba! I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks Party More to come. Stay tuned! So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature? His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this. Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote: I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv: I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nuke Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbig His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4sta I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time. His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum: Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum? + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote: I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote: He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched. He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here: In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here. For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has. There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember: Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game. To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum. ##Vote: kitaman27 Having said all this I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch.All in all, this makes more sense from a 3P if he has to be included in a party (although my own wincon does not indicate that this is a possibility). However, the 3P vibe gets stronger: Kita has a real obsession with 3P: Strange, because Drazerk never claimed 3P, although it was easy to get a 3P vibe from him due to his posting in D1. I had a 3P vibe on Drazerk, but it's only natural because I was wondering whether there was anymore 3P around, being one myself. Then Kita gets accused of being 3P. His defense is rather strange: He acts like the kicked dog as defense. Rather than pointing out townie reasons for his behaviour, he whinges about previous games in which he was unjustly called 3P. That's not a defense of why he's not 3rd party this game. He has been playing very much like a 3rd party this game. The final piece of evidence is that his whole activity around my claim was trying to get me to reveal my FAKEclaim. Not my real name, but my fakeclaim. It made no sense. But if he's worried that he has a similar fakeclaim and I will blow his cover, then it does: + Show Spoiler [Kita wants my fakeclaim] + On November 28 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: The game was worded so that I had to guess who would be elected or lynched, which is why I tend to think it was a targeted ability and not something built into the game. Acro's role claim is the most important reveal since my last post so I'll go into this first. First off, we treat Acro as an anti-town player. He claims to have a different win condition than us and refuses to reveal the details of this win condition. We cannot confirm he is third party. We only know that his alignment was outed by an investigative role and that he felt claiming third party was in his best interest. We don't have confirmation that he actually used a role check on day two. Keep in mind he revealed the role of a player who already had a scum check on him. As a survivalist, there is little reason to attract extra attention. By revealing his investigative role, he only made himself more of a threat to mafia night hits. Now look at the timing of Acro's claim: Acro explains things well enough here. He was in no danger of being lynched this cycle. He was in no danger of being lynched next cycle. So as a third party player, why would he open himself up to two extra cycles of night actions if there is a player that is trying to kill him? Why not claim three cycles from now? Currently, I feel the town has given Acro far too much leeway with his secrets. He no longer gets to make his own decisions. We get to make them for him. Acro claims to have been provided a fake claim. He needs to reveal this fake claim now so we confirm it isn't counterclaimed and that no other player is able to use this claim later on. Acro needs to role claim. If he truly is a third party player who is being targeted by another player, I'm sure they've already put two and two together. Hiding this information isn't going to keep him safe. If he wants to cooperate with town he needs to reveal his role name, his role, and his win conditions. He no longer has the luxury of keeping these things secret after claiming for survival. If he refuses, we should assume he doesn't have town's best interest at heart. (Please don't shoot me for standing up to you :p ) For the team selection I propose: Dieno, syllo, clarity, TC I don't really feel I have to go into reasons for the first three players. Dieno hasn't had a chance for leadership yet and is requesting it, which is why I prefer him as leader over syllo. TC now has revealed two separate investigative checks that have benefited town. With Acro feeling necessary to claim, we can confirm the legitimacy of his check. I see no reason why someone like phagga or hap should be included over him. In the event that the mafia has the ability to day vig or exclude one of the players in this group of four players, we should probably have a backup, which should be iamperfection based upon his healing of marv, which hasn't been counterclaimed. First I need to reveal my fakeclaim. Second I need to roleclaim. Note the order. I tell him I won't claim. He's perfectly happy dropping that, but he is adamant about: On November 28 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Of course you won't. Props for even trying to discredit my alignment in your refusal Lets start simple and reveal the fake claim you were given. On November 28 2012 12:52 kitaman27 wrote: In the event that you are mafia, revealing the fake claim means that the mafia team would have one claim to work with late game. meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. That's right, the fake claim. With a really flimsy excuse. As if I wouldn't be willing to blow someone's cover with my fake claim if they ever tried that? Well yes, I would... and that's exactly what Kita is worried about. So, Kita, want to claim your identity? Shadow breadcrumbed in the regular text. Shield can be found by opening up the spoiler "Marv's case". In that spoiler, open up Marv's 3rd spoiler and then open the first nested quote. Somewhere heavily nested is a post by Toad from November 21 2012 17:13. I replaced and italicized a word with "shield". Target is simply the target of the post. D5: Fiendlord's Grasp on Toad. Had no clue what this would do, but with Toad claiming unlynchable, I still REALLY wanted him dead. Turned out it made him unable to target me for 2 cycles. It got refunded because it fizzled. Breadcrumb is also creative: On December 01 2012 05:26 Acrofales wrote: A fiendish plot. I also saw the two different claims and figured he was probably lying. I wouldn't be so fast as to say he took no damage, just that he is lying about how much damage he took. He's grasping the opportunity to spread misinformation in the town (and forcing me to give up information about my HP, which luckily is rather high). Well, we lynch Toad tonight and that's the end of it. To find "lord", you have to actually go to the original post and click "quote". In the post I quoted, I put empty bold tags just before an l, an o, an r and a d. Amazingly these do not get filtered out by TL's code, but do absolutely nothing. D6: Lurk in the Shadows on Drazerk. Would've told me if Drazerk ever visited, or was ever visited by Queen Zeal. Unfortunately completely useless because I already completed this part of my wincon. Breadcrumb, although I was getting really lazy by now: On December 03 2012 05:15 Acrofales wrote: I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already. Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game. You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas! D7: Fiendlord's Keep on Drazerk. Didn't breadcrumb because I outright stated in the thread that I was playing ability roulette with him. On December 05 2012 08:00 Acrofales wrote: Oh, CJ, I'm playing ability roulette with you tonight. Just for giggles. Who knows what will hit you! D8: Mind Read on Drazerk. Once again, stated openly in the thread: On December 07 2012 08:01 Acrofales wrote: 2 nights ago I was given 2 charges to reactivate used spells. I used 1 charge tonight to check CJ's rolename. At the time I lied about it giving alignment. It is only rolename. We'll see whether Drazerk was telling the truth about being the Chef. Unfortunately I cannot verify his alignment. D9: Fiendlord's Grasp on Kita. No crumb. I still am paranoid about Kita trying to shoot me. I doubt anybody else will at this point, so this made sense. He cannot target me tonight either. And that's it. Tonight I plan on using Dark Mist. It is self-targeting and by the name, I'm guessing it does damage to anybody targeting me. I then still have Black Gemstone left, which is also self-targeting. I am guessing it is some kind of heal, but the name is really cryptic (because it's an item in the game that enables you to cast Dark Matter). I already asked Greymist about it and he said that they ran out of spell names, so gave me an item name instead of a spell name, but it still works as a spell. On December 10 2012 16:51 syllogism wrote: Acro you have to convince me that you aren't going to be a liability during the lavos fight, or I will have to disable you for the duration of it. I can disable you without it impeding my damage output, so I've very little reason not to do it without some convincing. I promise I won't be a liability and I have a way of proving I'm not scum. It says scum cannot target Lavos. I can. Tomorrow, feel free to roleblock me and watch me target Lavos. I can still reactivate one of my abilities and am happy to use that to prove I am not scum. | ||
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On December 09 2012 08:32 GreYMisT wrote: Lavos Falls at the conclusion of this cycle! He will use role-blocks and damaging abilities on random town and mafia players. Can Lavos roleblock/damage me? | ||
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On December 10 2012 21:41 iamperfection wrote: So what happens with lavos. In the game doesn't magnus have three ability to join the party? Can you become town? I am a survivor. I just have to survive the fight. If Lavos wipes out all of town, but not me, then I win with mafia. If we kill Lavos, then I win with town. Still checking with greymist whether I can cast Black Hole on Lavos, but if I can, then I can contribute 100 damage to the Lavos fight by reactivating that ability with my second recharge. | ||
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Austinmcc does NOT care about the future of this game, in any way, shape or form. He cares about not getting lynched, and not getting lynched ONLY. After this cycle it seems we won't get to kill him if I read Greymist's post correctly. Cycles will be focused on killing Lavos. Scum will help Lavos by trying to kill town faster than Lavos can kill them. That is scum's ONLY hope of winning. Now I know this applies to me too. I am a survivor after all. I'd point out that I can shoot Lavos, but that is not a compelling reason why I am not scum. The compelling reason for me not being scum can be found by reading my filter. As scum, I had absolutely NO reason to: 1. Hard defend Sandroba and nail Toad with a case instead. I chose to try to derail an easy, and necessary, bus on one scumbuddy in favour of making a coherent case on my other scumbuddy who was in no way, shape or form, under any real suspicion? 2. Started to bus risk.nuke in cycle 4 (here is where I start pressuring him seriously. Before then I had nothing concrete. This slowly grows into a full-blown scum read over the duration of the game), when Toad was not even dead yet. 3. Claimed I didn't want to be in a party immediately when people started thinking I was a real candidate. Other scum so far has wanted to be in a party. Why would I try NOT to be in a party? 4. Tried to mason chat 2 of my scumbuddies and shot them for 75 damage instead. Sandroba's damage is verifiable, unless someone else wants to claim 75 damage to Sandroba on cycle 1. If this was a scum plan to bus, then why did VE never claim that damage? Shitty plan. Now that I have shown why me being scum would be me playing absolutely terribly, lets move on to the main interest of this post: why austinmcc is scum No plan for the future. No interest in the future Let us start with a quote by austin himself, pointing out why the lack of a long-term plan makes phagga scummy: On December 09 2012 07:04 austinmcc wrote: Syllo, there aren't a lot of voters around and active from what I can tell, so I'm talking to you here. You say this: Game has been long. Yes, I'm sure whoever isn't lynched will get roleblocked. That's expected. But... I am thinking about tomorrow. I am thinking about the day after tomorrow. I want to be around tomorrow, I have a reason to go to 65,000,000 BC, because between shooting Adam and checking Acro, I'd rather check Acro. On the off chance that I can check Acro before lavos pops, although that seems unlikely, I want to be able to do so. Gives us some knowledge of what we're dealing with if he does anything weird. Do you know what phagga wants to do tomorrow? Do you know what phagga wants to do the day after tomorrow? AFTER ALL THE TALK OF WHO CAN USE WHAT ABILITY ON PHAGGA FOR HIM TO COPY...THERE IS STILL NO DISCUSSION OF THAT. He's not thinking about this game's future, because he knows that if I get lynched today, he gets lynched tomorrow. I'm trying to keep playing this game. He doesn't seem interested in the future AT ALL. Why? If we're really about to summon lavos, and he's town, isn't he thinking about where he wants to fight lavos? What he wants to do this cycle? Asking someone to use not a heal but SOMETHING on him that we want against lavos? He's not doing any of that. Because he has no future in this game. So... Phagga has not said what he wants to do in the future of the game. This is clearly a scumtell, because, using the words in this very post: he knows that if austinmcc gets lynched, then phagga will get lynched the next day. Phagga is, according to austin, not interested in the future at all (I disagree, I clearly read that he wanted to get healed so he could heal other people, but I don't remember whether that came before or after this post). What I DO know is that austin has NOT thought about what happens in 1999. He has claimed a whole bunch of abilities in all other eras, but he seems unconcerned about 1999. So... austin does not care about the future, despite saying he does: On December 09 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote: That's all I've got. I have to run to dinner now, will be checking phone when I can. I'm not scum. I'm trying to play this game and see lavos pop, I'm still thinking about the future. I'm trying to figure things out. I claimed my role in full to try and help with that, I didn't shoot someone who I hadn't read up on for 300 damage. You may not love the case on phagga, but what part of the case on me do you love? If there is one. Okay, so he is thinking about the future, but not about what he can do in 1999, when Lavos will drop out of the sky, something that has been known since the opening post layed out the rules. Now, why did austinmcc think SnB was scum? On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote: SnB Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says: (1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable. But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp. <snip> That's right! He didn't bother figuring out what a critical aspect of his role did before everybody else wanted to know. Now we have: On December 10 2012 11:26 austinmcc wrote: It was announced that whoever wasn't lynched was going to be roleblocked. There was no reason for syllo to make this an idle threat, I actually believe that he's tired of this game and didn't care who got lynched. So it's not really worth sending in an action that's guaranteed to get blocked. Syllo, I checked. No, I did not claim an ability in 1999 AD. I did not know if I had one, there was nothing in my original role about that. Turns out I can choose any of the three gurus and be that guy for 1999 AD. So...either heal/shield, or if we think we've got enough of that, I can go counterattack and hope lavos hits me. Errrr, whoops? Conclusion: austinmcc has done exactly what he accused others of doing. He has showed no interest in looking past the next lynch. If you want any further proof of that, you can peruse some of the juicy quotes from the next point in this case. However, the fact that he never bothered to figure out how his ability works in the endgame can be explained quite easily: his ability works different to what he told us, just as SnB's did and he didn't think his fakeclaim through properly, leaving 1999 as the obvious flaw. The missing scum Once again, in austin's own words: On December 10 2012 11:13 austinmcc wrote: Still not scum. Defending oneself in a game is draining and time-consuming. I'm a little burnt out, and frankly...there's nobody that I like right now for scum. So no, I haven't given up. But I'm convinced that the remaining scum has just hidden himself well, either through creative bussing or some kind of sneaky ability, and they're now entrenched enough that we're stuck having them be part of the lavos fight. Apart from kita, no single player frightens me that much right now, and so I don't think that a single scum player will be a problem. But I don't have a scumread right now. So...my defense is already in thread, same as it was yesterday. Just this cycle the defense is "I'm not scum" without "I'm not scum and that specific person is." So I'm voting acrofales, as I feel that taking him out before lavos is the best thing to do with this cycle. If I don't have a clue who the remaining scum is, I'd rather take out 3P than a townie. There is nobody left who can be scum. Pretty much everybody else is ruled out by mechanics. Updated my list from last cycle: On December 07 2012 21:49 Acrofales wrote: Anyway, lets go through the list of alive players again. Syllo - was in the tent, successful party and nailed Sandro and SnB TC - nailed Toad when there was no reason for it from a scum perspective. Overall townie filter GK - was in the tent, all scum tried to get him killed (except risk) Prom - was shot by SnB, abilities pan out Oats - was shot by SnB, was on a successful party, abilities pan out Iamperfection - has been healing townies all game. Claims check out. Kita - scum seems too weird. Could be 3P with a good fakeclaim. However, town for now. Hapa - Syllo roleblocked him last night and he went nowhere. Forgot to send in abilities. Also filter is moderately townie. Negative points for weird claim and being in quite a number of claim controversies. H1 - filter-based I say town. Ability is consistent and makes sense lore-wise. However, his targets have not been verified. Damage on Drazerk is outright missing. Cannot verify damage on Toad. Only confirmed shot is Hapa. Adam - same story. Zbo/austin - claim is not making sense so far. Null filter. Elimination game makes him scum. With Phagga dead that leaves Adam, H1 and Hapa as possible scum. I agree, however, with austin when he says that it is really hard to see one of them as scum. Their filters read moderately townie. However, if austin is town, then he KNOWS one of them must be scum. Rather than figuring out which one, he decides to take the easy way out: lynch the 3rd party. There is a good chance town is not opposed to lynching 3P if they cannot find scum, so I am the lynch by default if austin can worm himself out of the lynch. Why? Because scummcc knows that any case he makes against Hapa, H1 or Adam will be unconvincing. If austin really was town, he would be looking for scum, not trying to lynch 3P. As an aside and a minor bonus point: On December 09 2012 07:26 austinmcc wrote: EXHIBIT 1: holy Roman. This isn't a caller game, but not knowing anything about third party has sometimes been bad for town. Huh? In HRM there was no 3rd party, except for iGrok who got himself killed really early on (N1 if I recall correctly, might have been N2). He might have become a threat at some point, but he got killed before any speculation about 3P even started. There were 2 scumteams. Drazerk was scum with a typical scum wincon. So... why are you misrepresenting what happened in an old mafia game to give your argument more force? Is it perhaps because you are afraid you'll need anoter body to throw on the lynch mill, because Phagga WILL flip town? Conclusion: austinmcc does not care about the future, just about avoiding the lynch. austinmcc doesn't care about his abilities, because they were fake. austinmcc does not care about scumhunting, because he cannot find a way to credibly paint one of the remaining townies as scum. In closing, austinmcc is scum. ##Lynch austinmcc ##Epoch 1999 | ||
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On December 10 2012 22:12 Promethelax wrote: wouldn't that also jail lavos? That seems particularly bad for us. Asking greymist. His post about Lavos states that Lavos cannot be roleblocked or healed. Am asking whether black hole can target Lavos and if so, what happens to the jail. My assumption is that it just does 100 damage and the jail fizzles, but waiting for greymist to wake up. Alternatively, I can ask mementoss as well | ||
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On December 11 2012 00:23 syllogism wrote: Okay I forgive you for delaying the game by one cycle This. Getting you to post that was totally worth it. | ||
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1. I am in fact 3P (thank you, my role pm agrees with you). 2. Nobody else looks like scum. Therefore we should lynch 3P. Why, when we have obvious scum sitting right in front of us? I will simply repeat myself until the rest of town figures this out: austinmcc has not addressed the fact that he was not looking past preventing himself getting lynched by making a case on the ONLY person who he could possibly get town to switch to. He did not bother figuring out how his role worked, despite calling it scummy when SnB did not do that exact same thing. He cannot explain why the shield on Hapa appears to not have existed. He knows the rest of town has caught him out. He knows any case he makes on anybody else will look forced, because it WILL be forced (they're town after all). His only hope is to lynch the 3P. Now me being a survivor obviously has me with a vested interest in surviving, but even without that, it is clear that austin is scum. He's run out of rocks to hide under and that is about it. He first threw the towel in the ring with his wise men post, but rather than continuing to blazinghand up the thread in hilarious manner, he took the lifeline Oats threw him. Oh, and if you think I will be no help vs. Lavos, my 100 damage is worth 4 cycles of most townies being alive. I think I will more than pay for myself. I don't need your heals, I still have oodles of hitpoints. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:03 Keirathi wrote: I really don't think austin is scum. I didn't think ZB was scum, and austin hasn't really changed that. His play just feels COMPLETELY different than his scum play in Aperture 2. I don't know what you expect from a town austin, but accusing him for going after the 3rd party is silly. Not that I particularly want to lynch Acro either, but "I think you're scum. Go prove that you aren't by finding scum for us because I'm too lazy and don't feel like looking at anyone except you" is silly. Fine. I'll go and read Aperture 2. However, if you don't think austin is scum, who do you think IS the remaining scum? You know it's not me (or should, because even austin cannot make that case). You can use my handy colored chart to see what abilities confirm whom and work from there, or you can strike out on your own, but we know there is still scum left, or Lavos would've been summoned 2 cycles ago. So if not, austin, you have to find someone else. You cannot just say "austin isn't scum". The game doesn't work that way. | ||
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In the meantime I'll look at Hapa, but I really doubt I'll find anything new. | ||
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On December 11 2012 03:25 kitaman27 wrote: Acro only needing to kill a mafia member seems somewhat unlikely. At some point, he claimed his win condition hadn't been met yet and I believe Toad was dead by that point, but a 38 page filter is impossible to search through. I wonder if the all function goes away on a 50 page filter :p That is correct. I lied, because I didn't want my wincon known, or guessable at that point yet. I have a hard time believing that the Magus boss battle had absolutely nothing to do with his character. Perhaps he was recruited based upon the outcome of the event? Either way, I think he should be roleblocked into oblivion. His 100 damage doesn't help much if it is aimed at one of us, while jailing our damage output in the process. Once we lose the lynch, we have no way to punish his actions since all kp will be aimed at lavos. Insofar as I know, the Magus boss battle had absolutely nothing to do with my role. My role pm at least mentions nothing about it. I gave arguments for what I thought were the best options for town to win the event, based on how the fight goes in the actual game. Syllo should definitely block him just in case. I might also, even if he is claiming that I can't. <snip> You can't tonight. You can tomorrow night and afterwards. I am fine being roleblocked. I don't think I need my heal. I don't particularly NEED to shoot Lavos either. I will, however be aimed at Lavos tomorrow, so Syllo the watcher could confirm that I am targeting Lavos if you really want to be paranoid. Other than that, I have to use Dark Mist tonight (either that, or Black Gemstone, and I prefer Dark Mist right now). | ||
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Three quarters of the town is confirmed because they have consistently backed up each other's actions. Not because they have claimed to have taken damage. In other news: I read Hapa's filter and find he actually looks townier than last time I checked. The only possible way I can see him being scum after going nuts at phagga last cycle, is if he is scum together with austin. In that case, I still prefer to lynch austin first. While austinmcc is making a valliant attempt, he is still scum. | ||
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1. If he had been scum with Sandro, he could simply have withheld his scumread on Sandro and laughed their way to the bank on D1. 2. He put together a successful party. We have seen that party with Keirathi and a 3P fails. It seems impossible that Syllo is scum based on the D1 party. 3. He blew risk.nuke's mason chat wide open. If this was a scumplan, it was retarded. 4. He claimed watcher seeing SnB visit someone he shouldn't. Killing yet another scum. With all of this pretty much confirming Syllo as town, his damage claim sounds truthful. NOT the other way round. If you want, I can do this for all the people I marked as green in my list. Could save you about 350 pages of filters before you are forced to conclude that you, in fact, are the final scum. | ||
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1. He was on a successful party 2. The whole "low success modifier" was too weird for a fakeclaim when the OP explicitly states that the success modifier was hidden. His reaction at me made sense. 3. He claims he gets abilities from successful parties he's on. By being on the party he was able to jail syllo. Syllo claimed roleblocked and nobody counterclaimed. Other nights he claimed no abilities. Number 3 means that either scum has a roleblocker who only roleblocked once (all other blocks are claimed), or roleblocked people like CJ. There also seems to be less KP on N2 than on N1 or N3, making it likely that scum targeted Syllo while he was jailed. The rest of my town read on Keirathi was based on him not playing like scum. Also, Tata makes absolutely perfect sense for Keirathi's earlier claims. It is a hilarious troll role by Greymist. | ||
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Also, I totally told you so about austin. Again. I presume THAT is what was redacted and probably why I shouldn't have claimed. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:00 Hapahauli wrote: Did you receive any info about how much HP Toad spawned with? I'm going to assume full HP. No clue really. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:02 Toadesstern wrote: sup guyses. Thx for reviving me Was there any way I could have avoided it? :S | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:06 Keirathi wrote: Does Acro even need to have Toad dead to win? I mean, do you have to complete both the primary AND secondary win-cons simultaneously to win? I was just told that and repeated it in the thread. I need to kill Toad... again, to win the game. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: What's acros win-con? I didn't really pay attention to anything past d1.5. I highly doubt that he has to kill me for a wincon though. Just got told by Greymist I couldn't have prevented your revival. Guess I'll just have to kill you AGAIN to win. Still waiting to hear whether my sword hits through my black hole, or whether I cannot roleblock you if I want to do max damage. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:12 TheChronicler wrote: I'm guessing he hasn't used it since he just learned it. Probably does dmg to both toad and Lavos. Sick shit Should be an easy win from here just target Lavos and if he dies then we can help acro by killing toad? I'm assuming toad respawned with full hp. So since acro says he can hit toad for 200 dmg a turn 5 cycles til toad death. I think Lavos killing us off will mean 4 cycles til he's dead. So maybe we coordinate the dmg abilities so we can split the last cycle? I can't do shit, sorry guys. Doesn't look like it matters, though. Anyways, claim dmg in thread so we can plan this out? I need to kill Toad before Lavos dies. Toad has to be dead when the game ends for me to win. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:29 TheChronicler wrote: Just occurred to me that acro could be the last scum who knew toad would resurrect when Lavos came back if there was faction kp last night. Based on what idiocy did you get that conclusion? | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:46 TheChronicler wrote: Hopeless said if there was faction kp last night there's another mafia member. I think it's you. It makes perfect sense. "don't worry guys I've got 200 dmg I'll be using on toad only" Riiiiight. I'll wait to see if anyone claims damage before definitively calling you scum, but if there is it makes perfect sense. You decided to go full retard and not read the thread for the last 200 pages or so? 1. I WAS the one to say that, not H1. 2. The only scum I have not had a hand in killing was Sandro, who I hard defended. All the other scum were found by me. 3. Read the bit at the top of my case against austinmcc and stop being a total idiot. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:54 Acrofales wrote: You decided to go full retard and not read the thread for the last 200 pages or so? 1. I WAS the one to say that, not H1. 2. The only scum I have not had a hand in killing was Sandro, who I hard defended. All the other scum were found by me. 3. Read the bit at the top of my case against austinmcc and stop being a total idiot. EBWOP: found by me, or I was early on the wagon. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:00 kitaman27 wrote: Didn't Greymist confirm that factional kp no longer exist? Oh yes, thank god for that. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote: Toad might still be able to Mammon Machine HP back into Lavos by stealing from townies. Not if he is roleblocked every night. I am taking care of it tonight. I can only do it every 2nd cycle, though. The reinstitution of my full abilities comes with the limitation that I cannot cast the same spell twice in a row. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:25 Oatsmaster wrote: What is your point gk? Who else would hit me for such a staggering amount of HP? Austin did an ability called, self-destruct right? But it wasnt listed anywhere in his pm so.. I dont know. He seemed pretty convinced it would hit me. I was rather scared it was a vengeful thing that would kill whoever was the last person to vote for him. Maybe it can only hit townies? Could be a scum factional ability. I find it hard to imagine another scum, for the same reason that I couldn't see any way of making a case on anybody other than austin in the first place. When he flipped scum and my night pm didn't mention any damage to me, I dismissed that sef-destruct thing, but you are right, that might have been it. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:40 iamperfection wrote: Acro im from my phone I have proposition for you if you can read thread tommorow morning. I can. | ||
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On December 11 2012 13:56 iamperfection wrote: Acro is your 500hp heal only self target? Self-target only. I have sent in my actions already. I am going to shoot Toad for as much damage as I possibly can and pray I can kill him before you guys kill Lavos. Part of the reason my own wincon is now incredibly hard is because so many townies are alive. I honestly don't think you could've gotten here with what looks to be12 townies alive without my help scumhunting. With 12 townies alive, for a total of 500 damage on Toad. And that is without any of people's abilities. It looks like Lavos is going to die in 3 cycles. I am incapable of doing that kind of damage to Toad and it fucking sucks that I am going to lose after helping town be in such an awesome position. The least you can do is NOT roleblock me. | ||
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On December 05 2012 04:34 TheChronicler wrote: Voting sab. On December 08 2012 00:27 TheChronicler wrote: Good morning! Austin is z-Bo. I have no problems with this. Why are we going to 65m bc? I'll have to vote epoch today since I'll be traveling to a magic tournament tomorrow. ##vote: austinmcc ##Epoch: 65,000,000 BC The whole reason you could get away with doing absolutely nothing past cycle 4 or so is because there were people like Syllo and me lining up the cases for you. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:37 Toadesstern wrote: don't you know it or do you want to look like you don't know it? :p You asked Greymist about my revival after all, didn't you? I asked if we could have prevented your revival. He said no. Now I want to know if we wiped out all the scum before you got revived, meaning you're alone, or that there is a possibility of you having a scumbuddy. If you don't have a ive scumbuddy there are still some really weird unexplained things in the night actions overview. If you do have a scumbuddy I am having a really hard time figuring out who he is. If we will simply not be told, then that is too bad and I will simply assume you're alone. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:35 iamperfection wrote: So should I freeze toad and acro or not? By the way acro it wouldn't really effect you might even help I thought you said I'd be roleblocked? How can that help me when I have to do as much damage to Toad as possible before Lavos dies? | ||
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On December 12 2012 06:06 Promethelax wrote: not really relevant, no. I just though I remembered you saying that you had 151 health left. Which now that I write it down reminds me that math doesn't work that way and that the total is 400. No need for you to confirm/deny anything though. Trying to keep myself interested in this game mostly. If that's what you're doing, try to puzzle out whether Adam is scum or not. Weird shit going on with him and austin. | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:19 iamperfection wrote: Wtf who is trying to kill me? I took 100 dmg again. It makes no sense im not that valuable at this point? Which bit of RANDOM targets do you not get? | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:22 iamperfection wrote: If lavos can only do 100 dmg what is the point. In this endgame? Not much, but in an endgame where scum had more people alive and town less? Obviously quite a bit. Anyway, he targeted you and me so far. Who's to know how many people Lavos can target? | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:21 Toadesstern wrote: I took some damage. Lavos probably punching me But wasn't that much so I'm fine. I wasn't roleblocked, so you took 300 damage. Scum. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:09 Adam4167 wrote: The way it works is I submit on day 1, my pick to die from the beginning of N1, all the way through til the end of N2. This does not include the D1 lynch, as that resolves at the 47th hour of the day, and the night actions at the 48th. Then on the next cycle, I lose my predictive power and gain a shot that has to be spent, so I can resume predicting again. Why austin didn't counterattack me is beyond me. I was kind of expecting it regardless of his alignment. I took 100 damage and was roleblocked last night. Fairy certain Adam just claimed scum here. Here's the post in which austin claimed his actions for the first time ever: + Show Spoiler [austin's roleclaim] + On December 06 2012 02:10 austinmcc wrote: I can't account for the roleblocks or any missing actions. My role is different depending on the time period, but none of them match up.
If multiple people hit me in the same cycle, it's split amongst them.
Cycle 6 I shielded Syllo. Didn't know everyone's health values, dienosaur was dead before the end of cycle, and out of the people that were being treated as confirmed town, syllo seemed the strongest player to me. Cycle 7 I didn't do anything. Considered counterattacking Adam, making sure he was responsible for the damage on me like he claimed, but nobody counterclaimed the damage. Adam said he wasn't going to keep shooting me, so I figured best not to hit him. One reason I prefer cycles where a lot of people have items/abilities/something waiting for them is that those are the cycles that are useful. I guess I can use End of Time to check a player's HP or two, make sure they're not lying, but otherwise healing/shielding sounds way more useful than an HP check. Especially given that now it's kind of telegraphed. This is after it could have happened, thus there is no way you could have expected it to happen. You might have found it weird after the fact, but you couldn't have known beforehand that austin was capable of counterattacking unless you are scum. Therefore this is you making a mistake when fabricating what you should have thought at the time, ergo scum. Additionally, the night actions make no sense. N1 - N6 are okay. N7: why guess Iamp when Clarity just took a shitload of damage and you guessed him the night before, while Iamp took 0 damage? N8: austinmcc was nowhere in the picture yet. Why pick austin? N9: if you picked austin on N9 and he died in D10, then you got it right, didn't you? N10: phagga died at the end of D9, why on EARTH would you guess phagga on N10? It is completely senseless. Oh, and I didn't find this. Syllo gets full credit for wondering how weirdly illogical your night guesses were. I just assumed you could shoot and guess on the same night, and you hadn't claimed your N10 action. Thanks for explaining and claiming scum not thinking his claim through. You get to join the illustrious company of risk, austin and SnB. | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:12 iamperfection wrote: If hope uses his ability on lavos willi there be a next cycle? Well, hope cannot use his ability on lavos next cycle, he has to hit himself first. So unless someone else can do 200 damage more than they did today, there will be 3 cycles. | ||
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Assuming I don't get roleblocked and Toad has no healing shenanigans, and assuming Toad was revived with full health, I need 125 damage from town to kill Toad next cycle. However, let me argue for Syllo's proposal of damaging Toad tonight. Town will be doing 475 or 500 damage to Lavos, depending on whether Adam (or someone else) is scum or not, without even using any abilities. That means town has to deal 150 damage to Lavos in addition to the damage that will be heading his way regardless. 1. I will be doing 75 damage to Lavos tonight, because Dark Matter is my only nuke other than Black Hole (and it takes 3 targets: Toad, Lavos and myself). 2. H1 will be able to do 400 damage to Lavos tomorrow 3. Kita can Luminaire, whatever that does 4. Hapa can shoot for 100. 5. Syllo can do 150 damage. That means Syllo and H1 alone can take out Lavos, I am going to assume Kita can too. Hapa and I together can take out Lavos. Furthermore, if Toad dies, I can aim all my damage at Lavos, 100 of which is guaranteed to hit regardless of roleblocks. Given all of this, I don't think it's possible to miss out on killing Lavos tomorrow regardless of what we do today, however it is very possible to miss out on killing Toad tomorrow if we don't aim at him today. All it takes is one unfortunate roleblock. So please help me 125 damage means I can take out Toad if I don't get roleblocked ever. 325 damage means I can take out Toad if I get roleblocked tomorrow, but not today. Therefore if town can help me with 325 damage I will know tomorrow whether I can guarantee a Toad kill. Once again, assuming Toad was revived at full health and there are no healing shenanigans.If Toad did not respawn at full health, there's a chance he will die tonight, allowing me to aim all my damage at Lavos together with you guys. | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:31 syllogism wrote: Something is wrong then. Us two + 10 townies adds up to 850 damage, which would mean Hapa is the liar here if Oats punched lavos for 50 damage. 10 townied doesn't make sense. There's 14 people alive. 14 - Toad - me = 12. If there is some secret scummer, that's 11. Seems likely that Hapa nor Oats did damage (and if you read Oats' latest posts it seems quite likely he has just afk'd out of the game) | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:20 Adam4167 wrote: Right, I've figured out where the problem is. My guess order was: 1) Syllogism 2) Dieno 3) Toadesstern (this one was valid until the end of N4, when we lynched him) so this was the correct guess. 4) I submitted to Greymist - If toad survives this lynch, then predict toad. If toad dies, shoot Zboson. I shot Zboson on N4, not night 5, go back and reread it, I claim it at the time, right after the day post. 5) Clarity 6) Iamperfection 7) austin 8) austin 9) phagga Does that make a little more sense now? Okay, I guess this makes sense. Your guesses still seem rather strange. Why never guess CaveJohnson, when it was clear the world was gunning for him? How come you predicted austin and phagga, as if you knew there were 4 lynches in a row? If you were gambling on lynches, why not risk.nuke in that first one? But I guess suboptimal play doesn't make you scum and even if we assume you were scum, and you didn't shoot Zbo, I still cannot explain why Zbo didn't counterattack Oats. So whichever way we spin that, the lack of counterattack is weirder on Zbo's side than on yours. Also, there seems to be damage missing on Lavos, so that makes Hapa more likely scum. | ||
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On D4 there WAS no lynch, it was a party selection and Toad survived the whole cycle, to be lynched in cycle 5. Therefore, you CANNOT have gotten a shot in cycle 4. Nor do you claim the shot in cycle 4, but rather in cycle 5. Cycle 5 started December 1, 08:59 forumtime You claimed the shot on December 1, 12:27 forumtime Also, there is no way Greymist accepts conditional actions or makes roles that require you to send in conditional actions. | ||
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Anyway, I agree that your explanation of the role is giving me a headache. You're either scum making a brainteaser out of your fakeclaim or town with an impossibly convoluted role. I give up trying to figure out which and am focusing on Hapa. He seems to be the crux of the missing damage on Lavos. | ||
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For the record: this is not damage that would otherwise hit Lavos or Toad. I have to choose 3 targets. Was planning on shooting myself, but if I can put the damage to good use, I might as well shoot you instead. | ||
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13 alive. maximum 11 town. If nobody else is scum, then that makes it 475 damage, plus 400 from syllo and kita. 25 damage missing cannot be explained in any way claimed. 1 extra scum: 450 + 400 from syllo and kita. 50 damage can be explained in two different ways. First is that oats sent in a night action before going on holiday and punched for 50. However, that means Hapa didn't shoot, because he claimed not being roleblocked. Only reason I can think of for Hapa not to shoot is if he's scum. 2 extra scum: 425 + 400 from syllo and kita. 75 damage is weird and can only be explained if kita did not count as a target for syllo's ability, or Hapa lied about the 3rd level of his flamethrower. Either way, Hapa's shot is missing, unless there are 3 scum in addition to Toad, which seems outrageous. The alternative is that Kita or Syllo is lying. Out of the two, Kita lying seems more likely, but I happen to believe them both. Kita's claim of being Crono at least is true. Luminaire was cast. The rest just seems to line up too. That leaves Hapahascummy. | ||
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On December 13 2012 00:21 Toadesstern wrote: Oh btw there's no need in shooting me with a bunch of stuff. I didn't respawn with 1000HP. Only got 500HP this time around. I can't heal myself anymore so I'm stuck on 200hp right now. I mean there's no way to win this for me anymore... go figure. Feel free to not believe me and shoot me with everything you've got, that at least helps me in tanking more damage that Lavos would get otherwise (not that it makes a difference) but if you guys know one thing about my mafia meta is that I'm not lying, no matter what. "Worst" thing I do is leave out critical information while actually telling the truth :p You claimed your name was Johnny and your role was attention whore. How was that "not lying"? | ||
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On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote: This Keirathi guy is mafia. I don't even know why I'm addressing you. Scum, by definition, lies. Anything that you post is inherently untrustworthy. | ||
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On December 13 2012 01:39 iamperfection wrote: Anyone figure out my character name yet? Duh. I had you the moment Clarity was not it. | ||
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You claimed Syllo took damage. Syllo claimed he never took damage. Thought you were shared with him. | ||
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However, Syllo was untargettable due to your seed shield and Kita was untargettable because of Syllo. So someone magically did 75 damage to Lavos if Hapa is scum. Hapa simply forgetting to flamethrower or a host error on Lavos damage is also possible. | ||
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An alternative is that there is some hidden healing mechanic for Lavos based on the number of scum alive. We know Toad couldn't use the Mammon machine because both me and Kita roleblocked the shit out of him, but that doesn't mean there isn't some hidden mechanic that town wasn't told about. | ||
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GG everybody Thanks for the help at the end | ||
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Now that the plan to bus Toad is detailed, it was actually a really good idea. But the scumteam at least got TC pretty much confirmed town between the two checks. It never occurred to me that this was a scum taking a completely mad gamble at a 2 for 1 trade, which converted him into confirmed town when he hit a 3P, lol. However, Risen, in general, played a rather excellent game. I, and some others, attacked him pretty heavily in D2 over his completely inconsistent play in D1 and rather than trying to talk it right he just made the scenario ever crazier until I gave up in disgust and wrote him off for figuring out at a later date. While Kita said that the check could have been used to lynch a townie, then Toad, Toad was looking absolutely terrible by the end of D2 and imho even an H1 vs. Toad case (H1 was also looking bad around D3) would probably have ended up in a straight-up Toad lynch. Oh, and my rolecheck would have swung it, but that could not have been known at the time. Also, near the endgame when TC started crazy speculation about my wincon and I called him a complete idiot, I'm glad to hear he was actually playing towards his wincon and helping his scumbuddy survive, rather than being an actual idiot. The rest of the scumteam seemed pretty lost. I think SnB sums it up quite well in the QT: we should've killed syllo though we really had no idea what we were doing this game greymist i'm sorry i solemnly swear that next time i play in a game of yours i will truly give it my all Toad respawning at the end really pissed me off. I thought I had played rather well and was going to see it all screwed up by having a bajillion townies alive doing damage to Lavos way faster than I could kill Toad. Him being at 500 HP made that doable. Also, I was totally OP at the end, lol. 200 damage per night and additionally a choice out of a 100 damage + roleblock, a 500 heal or 75 damage to 3 targets. Anyway, my plan was to play my normal town self, but it got screwed up slightly when people wanted me in a party and completely utterly bumfucked when Chronicler claimed the DT check. Took a bit of thinking what I was going to claim. I was thinking of claiming Masa & Mune the third party role that had to kill Magus, but was unsure I could keep that up til endgame, so I just claimed my alignment to save my ass. Damned lucky I did so before getting randomed onto a party. That would have been my death if I hadn't claimed, lol. The rest of the game I was pretty much forced into overdrive activity, because most townies could get semi-confirmed with their roles or being on a party, while I would always be a possible lynch unless there was someone who most of town was convinced was scum. Scum can gain some town credit by pushing a 3P lynch, while uncertain townies can lynch a 3P when uncertain about who is scum, so I had to be extra active and scumhunt like crazy to save my ass from townies who might want to lynch me. I'm glad to hear that almost all of the people who brought it up were scum. Thanks again to Greymist and Mementoss for this game | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Like I said in obs, I swear I had the strongest ability in the game, infinite heal equal to the damage someone took. I can't believe marv died so early LOL gg town! edit: Syllo took all the credit for sand lynch though I swear I did more to try and make it happen. Why was I so unconvincing? Well, I wasn't ON the sandro lynch to start with, but your case really didn't matter much. Sandroba was scum because Syllo said he was. Everything else is pretty circumstantial when compared to two players who know each other so well. It was a tough break for Sandro to be scum with Syllo on town. The reverse would also have been true, as Syllo is also much better as town than as scum and Sandro would see through it in a similar manner. I'll go back and read your case, but at the time I thought it was bringing up things that weren't indicative of scum and dismissed it, although I did give you a tick for townie for pushing so hard. | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:45 austinmcc wrote: Yeah, nothing I can do about Z-bosons actions or posts. For reference, he actually DID take no action on Cycle 3, and then again Cycles 5 and 6. Grey asked me to replace during 5 but I wanted to try and catch up on the thread, which I failed at, so I came in 6 still behind. Oh well. I was hoping to get a little cred from not shooting you later on, but just didn't do enough with it and I think maybe chose a bad target with my faked action claims. Not sure if the outcome would have been different had I given better targets though. Would probably have been better to claim a heal on someone who had claimed no damage up to that point. The shield stuck around and it was therefore weird when damage didn't add up. A heal at full HP would go unnoticed. However, substituting in, I don't blame you for missing that little bit when people kicked up a shitstorm about Hapa not claiming healed. Other than that, I was actually quite scared you'd actually convince town to switch onto me. I was pretty sure you were scum, but I was 3P so my case might not have been trusted and you somehow managed to convince town off yourself and onto phagga the day before when I was away at the beach. I gave Risen credit for his scumplay, but you deserve a hand as well. You went down fighting tooth and nail and that ##self-destruct had me pretty scared for the hour before the resolution. | ||
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Master of Kitchens on the townside maybe, but I am not sure what his stuff actually did or how it worked at all, because Drazerk, as always lied his ass off about all of it. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + VE has no competition for best 3P player in the 2012 mafia awards, do something about it! | ||
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Luckily my new abiities were completely OP and Toad with 500 HP was killable in 2 cycles (assuming no roleblocks), even without town help. However, what would've been way worse is if town didn't trust me and kept me roleblocked, so in hindsight, even with Toad respawning and Lavos dying faster being bad, my assistance to town also ensured that I would at least not get roleblocked by town and just had to deal with Lavos' random roleblocks. | ||
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Funny to see that my initial town read on TC was 100% wrong (I did recant it pretty quickly, but still). Lesson for the future: scum come up with dumb plans just to look townie and know when to retract them when they get called derps for it. | ||
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Town (and everybody) had so little information that we assumed a straightforward system, while the actual system was way more convoluted. This assumption turned out to work really well, but could equally well have screwed town over monumentously. Assume for a second that Sandro or Toad managed to form the party and took 3 townies along. That person does not get lynched the next day and is in a good position to be in the party again. This party is FORCED to take 2 unconfirmed townies along. These will probably BOTH get lynched before the whole system is exposed. One thing scum should really have payed more attention to was the bit in the OP where it said that failing a party would be extremely bad for town. Nowhere is this mentioned in your QT that you should make a combined effort to get into a party. A push to really be included in the first party could have done SO much for you. However, not a single scummer even tried to look townie in D1: Sandro started off well, but went afk and never came back. Toad derped around. SnB was away. risk.nuke never manages to make himself look excessively townie (just in his meta to be fairly unreadable until later in the game). Zbo started okay, but never more than that. TC started really well, but let it slip until at the end of the day he was actually a scumspect. BioSC was lurking. Using the 7 members to make a strong push for 1 player being REALLY townie and getting included on the party would have set scum up for about 5 cycles worth of town chaos. Also, you say you didn't have enough KP, but I honestly think that is false. SnB had 250 to claimers, in addition to his 20% HP destroyer. Sandro had 200 over time, VE had quite a lot of conditional, Toad had 100, risk had 150 conditional and you yourself had some random KP. Add 200 factional KP and by making directed use of your KP to kill off healers and other protective roles (or in the beginning just focusing on strong town characters like Marv, Syllo or Kita), you could have killed off far more than 7 players at night. Hell, as it is 6 townies died and that was while severely derping up the KP. The way the game played out it looks like a landslide victory for town that scum was incapable of stopping, but with better D1 play (taking advantage of the sheer number of scummers) and more coordinated night actions, it could absolutely have been possible to hit Lavos in a very advantageous position. | ||
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Some roles may have been a tad overpowered. Greymist already mentioned Syllo's role. Clarity's role was pretty damned OP too. Prom's mass roleblock, once coordinated was also damned strong. However, I don't think the setup was inherently unbalanced. In completely other news, I have figured out all the night result puzzles! Weird DoT: scum going derpaderp with their KP Missing damage to Lavos: host error, Syllo's boulder toss didn't get counted. Unexplained 75 damages: Hapa throwing flame throwers around like it's no big thing. Everything related to Drazerk: Drazerk lying his ass off. Except for the roleblock. Guess a fizzled roleblock didn't need explaining, whereas it definitely did need explaining why I couldn't chat to Drazerk | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:43 strongandbig wrote: But yeah, having two replacements didn't help either, since the game was so active it was pretty much impossible to replace into competently austin replaced in amazingly well. He must have put in a TON of effort to look so good. Especially when people were about ready to lynch Zbo. Getting phagga lynched over himself was a pretty crazy feat... and with 20/20 hindsight he probably saved my ass. If I had been there I would have yelled and screamed and raged at everybody to stop being idiots, but I have to admit that he probably saved me. Particularly getting the last 2 votes or so for saving a confirmed townie from a modkill. /facepalm. Nobody would have found TC ever after that totally wild claim and I am not sure I could have actually gotten phagga lynched over myself. It would definitely have been a lot harder. VE, however, replaced in after 1 cycle and while the thread was moving really fast, he should have been able to keep up better than he did. If he hadn't gotten modkilled he would almost certainly have gotten either shot or lynched. | ||
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Scum gets elected to party leader and takes 3 townies. In contrast to expectations, party succeeds. Mislynch into any of the town candidates for running for leader. Particularly if it was contested, the other candidate is batantly scum, together with anybody who voted for him. So at the end of D2 you have "confirmed town" and a mislynch. D3 party: get your scum leader into the party. This time the party fails (because harder to succeed). D4 party: push for a party with none of the D3 candidates. Get the OTHER 2 D1 candidates and 2 random townies. Party success is irrelevant. If failure, that is fucking fantastic, if success, then /shrug, you aready have lynch candidates. D5: mislynch random townie invited into D3 party. D6: event. Given how terribad we were at the event, you can expect some deaths and lots of fail, regardless of what scum does. D7: mislynch the OTHER random townie invited into D3 party. By now you have mislynched 3/3 townies, had townies take a bunch of damage from failed events and hopefully shot some of the claimed healers and/or stronger townies dead by focus firing the KP. Iamperfection could have died from faction KP alone by the end of N3. Using abilities and scum KP, you could have had Marv AND Iamperfection dead. Prom should also be dead by this time. Syllo and Clarity are the dangers. Roleblock Syllo and focus clarity down with scum KP and Mammon Machine by N6. Random 250 damage flying around at people who nameclaimed, risk is chipping away at people in his mason channel and TC is flinging random damage at random people. Additionally you have H1 shooting townies, Adam trying to shoot townies. By the end of D7 you have 10 dead townies. Of the good players maybe Syllo is still hanging on and Kita is probably alive. I might be alive too, but I am nothing to fear. D8-10 you will probably lose a scum or two to lynches. Bus the crap out of Toad. In the meantime clean up Syllo and Kita. Town is now left with no strong abilities and no clear leaders. Maybe Hapa or Keirathi can rally, the town, but honestly, they should be firmly in some scum player's hand. By this time I have thrown in my lot with scum, except that I still want to kill Toad. You hit Lavos with no strong abilities, 6/7 scum alive and town down to about 6 people as well, all already taken some damage and no healers. Lavos takes 350 damage (plus 100-200 from abiities) the first day and that decreases as town dies out slowly from scum damage and Lavos damage. Even better if you can somehow convince the little bit of town damage still left to try to kill scum, rather than Lavos. When Toad is dead, Acro starts kiling townies to get the game over as fast as possibe. GG? | ||
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Now I'm not sure that makes the game balanced. It seems hard for either team to make a comeback if they get off to a bad start based on (in hindsight) terrible assumptions. Maybe more information was required to make the whole "confirmed" status from being in a successful party less sure. However, I don't know enough about balancing games, and have had too much to drink to comment on that stuff. However, I do strongly feel that scum could have won the game if they had shown more than 0.0 initiative since the start of D1. | ||
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