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On November 25 2012 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont want to take Dieno because there is a high chance that he dies the next cycle so I want to make sure all my party members are ALIVE and kicking at the end.
About marv, yeah his day 1 play worried me too but his 'excuse' was that he was not the most vet and that he wasnt comfortable in themed games, which is totally understandable.
I am reading him mostly based on his day 2 play because I had a null read on day 1.
Acro, you are being awfully opaque about why you do not want to be in the party, mind explaining?
Also I think that I might want to take Syllo as that only leaves 2 contentious decisions.
The host already confirmed that the event happens BEFORE night actions resolve, so even if ap arty member dies, it doesn't effect the outcome of the event.
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On November 25 2012 11:27 Acrofales wrote:
Lets just leave it at what I've said. I don't think there's any reason other that curiosity why anybody needs more information than I have given.
Because your claim doesn't make sense.
Remember this?
On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off.
Now you're trying to portray that you being in a party could cause us to lose the event somehow.
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On November 25 2012 11:35 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:29 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 11:27 Acrofales wrote:
Lets just leave it at what I've said. I don't think there's any reason other that curiosity why anybody needs more information than I have given. Because your claim doesn't make sense. Remember this? On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. Now you're trying to portray that you being in a party could cause us to lose the event somehow. I didn't say you didn't WANT any more information, just that you don't NEED any more information. My goal right now is to get this mission over successfully. It is safer if you don't take me.
I don't really WANT the information, nor do I NEED it. I don't really care one way or the other if you have a low success modifier or not.
The way I look at it, though, you're insinuating that you have a low success modifier. Which doesn't make any fucking sense because of what I quoted you as saying earlier. That wouldn't have been your reaction had you known that you had a low modifier yourself. So, what's the deal?
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On November 25 2012 11:53 Oatsmaster wrote:About choosing Marv as a party member. 15 page filter. Lotta 1 liners. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. This sounds extremely genuine and not at all what scum would do. He was the first to vote syllo. I think that the damage he took also shows that he isnt scum, Marv wasnt on anyone scumdar so therefore scum attacked him. About Chronicler, I also have no reason to doubt his claim on checking Toad and sandro. So. My Team is. Dieno Marv Chronicler AT THIS POINT
This post is why I don't trust you as leader to pick a party.
Marv was definitely on people's scumdar day 1. But marv is the kind of player that is likely to get shot anyways if he's town, even if 5-6 people think that he's scum.
And there's still the possibility of third party KP that hit marv. You're just making a bad assumption as a reason to fit him into your team.
And where did Chronicler come from?
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On November 25 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
Explain why 3rd party would hit marv then..
Also what read do you have on Marv?
Also anyone want to claim hitting marv?
Chronicler came from his claim that Toad and Sandro are the same alignment
Why WOULDN'T third party hit marv?
There are tons of reasons why they could/would. 1) they thought marv was suspicious of them 2) they think marv has the ability to read them well enough to know that they aren't playing to their typical town game 3) they thought marv was scum. I'm sure there are plenty more plausible reasons.
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On November 25 2012 12:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
3rd party wont hit marv because there are there are better people to hit.
ok bad question but
WHAT read do you have on Marv right now?
I already said what read I have on marv. I believe that he is town, and I included him in my proposed party.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with your read. I'm disagreeing with your reasoning. Your ability to read people is of utmost importance if you want to be leader, and if you're choosing people for such awful reasons that I can't really get behind you as a leader.
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On November 25 2012 13:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
Wow, so it seems sand was scum after all.
well done, syllo.
Right now I'm sticking with Keir. He's semi-confirmed town and knows what's up. I've had the same feeling about marv, he began the game playing uncompromisingly, but now his play has been much better.
##Vote Keirathi
Also, is anyone not bothered by the fact that hopeless1der has not scumhunted at all this game?
Unless you believe that Oats is lying about being Robo, I think that Oats and Dieno should be the two party members from last round that are in this party as well, rather than me or syllo. Oats because he's a Future era character and likely gets bonuses, and Dieno because he is very nearly 'confirmed' town, whereas neither myself nor syllo are.
However, I'm not really sure which one should be voted as leader.
I wasn't overly confident in either of their picks/reasonings behind them.
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On November 25 2012 13:31 Acrofales wrote:
Additionally, that's quite the epic frame, if it changes rolename as well.
Liquid City. Never forget.
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On November 25 2012 13:36 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:33 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 13:31 Acrofales wrote:
Additionally, that's quite the epic frame, if it changes rolename as well. Liquid City. Never forget. You believe him?
No. But in Liquid City, framer framed kush when role cop checked him. He returned Mafia Coroner, when he was just a VT.
Basically, in a game with role cops, I think its quite common (or at least plausible) for framer to change the role name and faction, because without it then it is kind of worthless. So, I'm just saying your assertion doesn't hold weight, but the evidence is still overwhelming.
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On November 25 2012 16:13 Djodref wrote:
Most reasonable Party for this Cycle
- Party leader: Strong town player who has already shown his alignment (Acro or maybe marv) or me, Djodref ^^
- Dieno and/or Oats, I think we are in a very good position (no NKs yet) and we should get ballsy and pick only one of them to get more "likely to be town" players
- One or two "easy to identify as town" players like Clarity or Hapa or me
Why in the world would we do that? Our primary goal this game is to kill Lavos. Winning events probably helps us do that in some way or another. Therefore we want to win every event possible, not leave townies out of them just to be "ballsy".
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Why do you have "possibly medic?" next to me?
I'm not a medic, nor have I claimed to be one at all :o
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Also Djo: answer my question.
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No, not that question. That question was directed at Dieno. The one before about why would we not take Dieno and oats to the event.
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On November 25 2012 17:10 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 16:29 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 16:13 Djodref wrote:
Most reasonable Party for this Cycle
- Party leader: Strong town player who has already shown his alignment (Acro or maybe marv) or me, Djodref ^^
- Dieno and/or Oats, I think we are in a very good position (no NKs yet) and we should get ballsy and pick only one of them to get more "likely to be town" players
- One or two "easy to identify as town" players like Clarity or Hapa or me
Why in the world would we do that? Our primary goal this game is to kill Lavos. Winning events probably helps us do that in some way or another. Therefore we want to win every event possible, not leave townies out of them just to be "ballsy". I agree with you but we would be in a better position imo if all the mafia members are dead when Lavos is summoned. I'm confident enough in my reads to find two others town players and propose a team which could garantee the success of the event. If I can get town credit and two other guys get town credit at the same time, it really narrows the possibility for.mafia to hide for the next lynch event. For example, what do you think of the following Djodref as party leader Oats are Robo the almost confirmed town Clarity the new town player sticking to its obvious town meta and early supporter of a sandro lynch Insert player looking town here : I would have taken Acro but he doesn't want to be part of the team so I guess Marv should deserve this spot. Not fixed on the third player yet.
I think winning the event is more imperative that having some more town reads.
And, no offense, but I wouldn't vote for you for party leader anyways.
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There is no way I am ever voting for a party that doesn't include Dieno and Oats. And I will vehemently fight against one that doesnt.
No. Never, ever. We have to win the events. We still have our wits to lynch scum, we don't need to risk event success for some "ballsy" play.
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On November 25 2012 18:08 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 17:34 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 17:10 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 16:29 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 16:13 Djodref wrote:
Most reasonable Party for this Cycle
- Party leader: Strong town player who has already shown his alignment (Acro or maybe marv) or me, Djodref ^^
- Dieno and/or Oats, I think we are in a very good position (no NKs yet) and we should get ballsy and pick only one of them to get more "likely to be town" players
- One or two "easy to identify as town" players like Clarity or Hapa or me
Why in the world would we do that? Our primary goal this game is to kill Lavos. Winning events probably helps us do that in some way or another. Therefore we want to win every event possible, not leave townies out of them just to be "ballsy". I agree with you but we would be in a better position imo if all the mafia members are dead when Lavos is summoned. I'm confident enough in my reads to find two others town players and propose a team which could garantee the success of the event. If I can get town credit and two other guys get town credit at the same time, it really narrows the possibility for.mafia to hide for the next lynch event. For example, what do you think of the following Djodref as party leader Oats are Robo the almost confirmed town Clarity the new town player sticking to its obvious town meta and early supporter of a sandro lynch Insert player looking town here : I would have taken Acro but he doesn't want to be part of the team so I guess Marv should deserve this spot. Not fixed on the third player yet. I think winning the event is more imperative that having some more town reads. And, no offense, but I wouldn't vote for you for party leader anyways. No offense taken. Also I respect your position. I'm favorable for a higher risk/higher reward play and I think that my idea deserves at least to be promoted. What do you think about avoiding to concentrate our assets on the newbies ?
"Concentrating" them? Syllo has our only 'gift' so far. And we have no idea what it is, or what it does.
Also, I'm not necessarily objecting having someone else be party leader other than the two of them. But I am 100% objecting to a party that doesn't contain both of them.
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On November 25 2012 18:13 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:07 iamperfection wrote:On November 25 2012 18:02 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote:Clarity, Chronicler claimed the alignment thing not me . Djo, why are you trying so hard to get elected? Do you have strong objections to either me or diens party? I would take diens party but with me as leader because I would survive longer My objection is that I don't want ton concentrate too much of the town assets on newbie players like you. I don't want to loose too much when the mafia or Lavos manage to kill you or Dieno. why are we making an assumption that the assets would be better in their hands anyways? Also why would the mafia have an easier time killing oats or anyone else for that matter? 1. we dont know if a so called vet having the item is any better than a so called newer player 2. we dont know the roles of our fellow members that could be more beneficial against the lavos. 1. I'm sure a vet would make a better use of the item than the newbie. But I have no idea of the relation between item/character. 2. Me neither but I assume that it is safer to trust the vets to take better decisions than the newbies to fight Lavos, regardless of their roles and abilities.
You're making a lot of assumptions that don't make logical sense. It's quite possible that whatever the 'gift' is ONLY works on Lavos, in which case it doesn't matter WHO has it. Also, we don't even know that its something you can 'use' anyways. Maybe its just a buff to all abilities used against Lavos. Or maybe its a debuff on Lavos that does something else. You're assuming too much when you know absolutely nothing.
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On November 25 2012 18:22 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:16 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 18:13 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 18:07 iamperfection wrote:On November 25 2012 18:02 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote:Clarity, Chronicler claimed the alignment thing not me . Djo, why are you trying so hard to get elected? Do you have strong objections to either me or diens party? I would take diens party but with me as leader because I would survive longer My objection is that I don't want ton concentrate too much of the town assets on newbie players like you. I don't want to loose too much when the mafia or Lavos manage to kill you or Dieno. why are we making an assumption that the assets would be better in their hands anyways? Also why would the mafia have an easier time killing oats or anyone else for that matter? 1. we dont know if a so called vet having the item is any better than a so called newer player 2. we dont know the roles of our fellow members that could be more beneficial against the lavos. 1. I'm sure a vet would make a better use of the item than the newbie. But I have no idea of the relation between item/character. 2. Me neither but I assume that it is safer to trust the vets to take better decisions than the newbies to fight Lavos, regardless of their roles and abilities. You're making a lot of assumptions that don't make logical sense. It's quite possible that whatever the 'gift' is ONLY works on Lavos, in which case it doesn't matter WHO has it. Also, we don't even know that its something you can 'use' anyways. Maybe its just a buff to all abilities used against Lavos. Or maybe its a debuff on Lavos that does something else. You're assuming too much when you know absolutely nothing. I think if you list all the possibilities of what this "gift" might be, and then answer the question "if the gift is X, does it matter if it's on a vet or not?" odds are the answer will be yes most of the time, and even if it wasn't most of the time it would still have no downsides. The only BIG downside right now is that our two close-to-confirmed town are Oats and Dieno. Who are not vets. But the argument "you don't know enough to make that call" is a bit misplaced.
I disagree with you almost completely.
The only time I think it could really make any difference on vets vs newbies is if its something like "You get a free vig shot" or something that requires the newbie to make a read, where the might not be as experienced making those kinds of decisions.
My opinion is that the gifts likely aren't anything like that. But again, we don't fucking know. This is all pointless setup speculation.
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On November 25 2012 18:21 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:10 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 18:08 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 17:34 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 17:10 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 16:29 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 16:13 Djodref wrote:
Most reasonable Party for this Cycle
- Party leader: Strong town player who has already shown his alignment (Acro or maybe marv) or me, Djodref ^^
- Dieno and/or Oats, I think we are in a very good position (no NKs yet) and we should get ballsy and pick only one of them to get more "likely to be town" players
- One or two "easy to identify as town" players like Clarity or Hapa or me
Why in the world would we do that? Our primary goal this game is to kill Lavos. Winning events probably helps us do that in some way or another. Therefore we want to win every event possible, not leave townies out of them just to be "ballsy". I agree with you but we would be in a better position imo if all the mafia members are dead when Lavos is summoned. I'm confident enough in my reads to find two others town players and propose a team which could garantee the success of the event. If I can get town credit and two other guys get town credit at the same time, it really narrows the possibility for.mafia to hide for the next lynch event. For example, what do you think of the following Djodref as party leader Oats are Robo the almost confirmed town Clarity the new town player sticking to its obvious town meta and early supporter of a sandro lynch Insert player looking town here : I would have taken Acro but he doesn't want to be part of the team so I guess Marv should deserve this spot. Not fixed on the third player yet. I think winning the event is more imperative that having some more town reads. And, no offense, but I wouldn't vote for you for party leader anyways. No offense taken. Also I respect your position. I'm favorable for a higher risk/higher reward play and I think that my idea deserves at least to be promoted. What do you think about avoiding to concentrate our assets on the newbies ? "Concentrating" them? Syllo has our only 'gift' so far. And we have no idea what it is, or what it does. Also, I'm not necessarily objecting having someone else be party leader other than the two of them. But I am 100% objecting to a party that doesn't contain both of them. @Keirlets say that Oats gets the part leader today. Then we have Oats = confirmed town + important character + gift I don't want to lose all this if mafia ot Lavos kills him and I dont trust him to use the gift properly... For the record, I would gladly vote for a party with both Oats and Dieno as members but not as party leaders. Please also consider the fact that we cannot pick them again for the next event.
The 'fact'? The stipulation today was that we could only use half of the members from the last party. Now, I will grant you that it's a possibility that there will be some new stipulation next event day, but again you're making the statement that its a fact, when it most certainly isn't.
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On November 25 2012 18:29 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 18:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 25 2012 18:16 Keirathi wrote:On November 25 2012 18:13 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 18:07 iamperfection wrote:On November 25 2012 18:02 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote:Clarity, Chronicler claimed the alignment thing not me . Djo, why are you trying so hard to get elected? Do you have strong objections to either me or diens party? I would take diens party but with me as leader because I would survive longer My objection is that I don't want ton concentrate too much of the town assets on newbie players like you. I don't want to loose too much when the mafia or Lavos manage to kill you or Dieno. why are we making an assumption that the assets would be better in their hands anyways? Also why would the mafia have an easier time killing oats or anyone else for that matter? 1. we dont know if a so called vet having the item is any better than a so called newer player 2. we dont know the roles of our fellow members that could be more beneficial against the lavos. 1. I'm sure a vet would make a better use of the item than the newbie. But I have no idea of the relation between item/character. 2. Me neither but I assume that it is safer to trust the vets to take better decisions than the newbies to fight Lavos, regardless of their roles and abilities. You're making a lot of assumptions that don't make logical sense. It's quite possible that whatever the 'gift' is ONLY works on Lavos, in which case it doesn't matter WHO has it. Also, we don't even know that its something you can 'use' anyways. Maybe its just a buff to all abilities used against Lavos. Or maybe its a debuff on Lavos that does something else. You're assuming too much when you know absolutely nothing. I think if you list all the possibilities of what this "gift" might be, and then answer the question "if the gift is X, does it matter if it's on a vet or not?" odds are the answer will be yes most of the time, and even if it wasn't most of the time it would still have no downsides. The only BIG downside right now is that our two close-to-confirmed town are Oats and Dieno. Who are not vets. But the argument "you don't know enough to make that call" is a bit misplaced. I disagree with you almost completely. The only time I think it could really make any difference on vets vs newbies is if its something like "You get a free vig shot" or something that requires the newbie to make a read, where the might not be as experienced making those kinds of decisions. My opinion is that the gifts likely aren't anything like that. But again, we don't fucking know. This is all pointless setup speculation. You disagree very strongly yet you name something that would be better on a vet than a non-vet..... Can you name something that would be better on a non-vet than a vet?
Yes, I said I mostly disagreed and then listed the ONLY possibility that would make more sense on a vet than a non-vet.
And yes, I can imagine gifts that are stronger for some roles than others. Perhaps something that would be more useful, on say, Frog than it would be on Joe Blow vet, in which case the gift would be better on a non-vet than a vet. Again, we have NO FUCKING CLUE what the gifts even do. THIS DISCUSSION IS POINTLESS.
And AGAIN, I'm not against voting for someone other than Dieno/Oats as party leader. I am against a party that doesn't include both of them. Them being leader is just the most logical because their townieness isn't in question, while the other two people in the party are still wild cards.
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EPT
