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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 287

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Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 02 2012 18:14 GMT
#5721
My point was mainly to say that if we succeed djo is confirmed town, rather than if we fail djo is confirmed scum. I'll be extremely suspicious of him if we fail though. My phrasing was off.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 02 2012 18:39 GMT
#5722
Okay, so here's an observation. Last event, we grabbed for the sword. There was no phase 2 of the Slash fight. So we know that these events don't play out 1:1 with the analogous bits of the game. We both chose something you CAN'T do in game, and got a result that CAN'T HAPPEN in game.

I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game.



As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B.

Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia.

Fe fi fo fum.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
December 02 2012 19:23 GMT
#5723
On December 03 2012 01:21 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, there is NO way you just assume something as important as that unless you just made that shit up on the spot. SnB is a pretty careful and meticulous player. That is not the kind of thing he just overlooks.

Also, with Spekkio being scum, who knows what a Nu is. It is so far the ONLY character claimed that you actually have to fight against in the game.. except for risk.nuke and I completely mistrust risk.nuke too.


You have to remember I really wasn't paying much attention at all.

Also, I don't always play careful and meticulous. I guess you were not following Mario Mini Mafia at all.

Anyway, I sent a PM to greymist asking him how my role works. But it really makes very little sense for it to work the other way, so I'm pretty sure it does the healing thing.

On December 03 2012 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 01:07 strongandbig wrote:

um

i've been assuming that the way it's calculated is "current hp = max hp - damage" and that "max hp" and "damage" are the two numbers that the hosts keep track of on their spreadsheet.

if my ability doesn't work that way then it's seriously terrible



actually, maybe that would make sense as a town ability if the hosts thought there was sure to be a small group of confirmed or semi-confirmed townies who we would focus fire healing on?

i still think that would be terrible though, i never even really considered it.

Wtf is this?
You dont think its a town ability already?


I had been assuming it worked the first way, that makes perfect sense to me.

If it works the second way, I think it's a really weird ability for a townie to have.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18088 Posts
December 02 2012 20:15 GMT
#5724
On December 03 2012 03:39 austinmcc wrote:
Okay, so here's an observation. Last event, we grabbed for the sword. There was no phase 2 of the Slash fight. So we know that these events don't play out 1:1 with the analogous bits of the game. We both chose something you CAN'T do in game, and got a result that CAN'T HAPPEN in game.

I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game.



As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B.

Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia.


I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already.

Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game.

You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas!
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
December 02 2012 20:40 GMT
#5725
Okay so I got a clarification from GreyMist. I was wrong, and my ability doesn't work in the way I thought it does. Increasing someone's max hp does not simultaneously increase their current HP.

That's pretty unfortunate. I guess instead of a protective role I have some kind of weird gimpy vig shot.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
December 02 2012 20:41 GMT
#5726
Remember that night actions are due at the deadline, and to please send them into me and Mementoss. Thanks!
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 02 2012 20:51 GMT
#5727
I have no idea what to pick in situations like this since I've never played the game, so I am mostly just following popular opinion.

Avoiding traps makes sense, and healing makes sense.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
December 02 2012 20:57 GMT
#5728
I'm Back. Regarding the Dungeon Path and Magus battle:

I trust the ones who say that Dungeon Path B is the best option. I have not played the game. Surviving holes (with possible additional fights) seems reasonable. So B.

Regarding Magus: According to GamesFAQ (search for "Boss: MAGUS") you should attack him while he is risking to cast a spell, so B or C seem the better options. Masamune would have helped decreasing his defense, unfortunately it is no longer available. However, we are down one party member and the FAQ is unclear about if you are able to finish him off before he casts his spell or not. Acro implies that you are not always able to do so. Therefore, healing up seems wiser.

##Ozzie: B
##Magus: A

"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 02 2012 21:01 GMT
#5729
On December 03 2012 05:15 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 03:39 austinmcc wrote:
Okay, so here's an observation. Last event, we grabbed for the sword. There was no phase 2 of the Slash fight. So we know that these events don't play out 1:1 with the analogous bits of the game. We both chose something you CAN'T do in game, and got a result that CAN'T HAPPEN in game.

I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game.



As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B.

Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia.


I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already.

Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game.

You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas!
I overestimated my ability to read through 260 pages of mafia, let alone 260 pages in a game that was heavily themed and so there's all sorts of other stuff going on.

Right now I'm playing this like I did PTP3. I'm a warm body; I plan on mainly doing setup speculation when needed, just because I have no idea what's gone on before. It worked out alright there as the game progressing, but I guess I was confirmed that game so I wasn't under any suspicion.

SnB has popped up a bunch recently; I'll look back through his past stuff. My gut read right now is that he's scum, but I want to see if there's anything beyond the roleclaim to go off of. Can you narrow down the other folks to one or two that you're particularly interested in? I know CJ is drazerk(yes?), but I haven't really seen much from non-SnBs in that group and would need to hit a filter or two for thoughts.
Fe fi fo fum.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
December 02 2012 21:15 GMT
#5730
S&B's role description sounds like the standard, "punish the town for roleclaiming" role that needs to be in this game based on the fact that roleclaims are so powerful in this setup.

Austin, I'd like to hear if you have any thoughts on S&B, nuke, VE and hap, or maybe just a couple of these individuals if you don't have the time.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 02 2012 21:18 GMT
#5731
On December 03 2012 06:15 kitaman27 wrote:
S&B's role description sounds like the standard, "punish the town for roleclaiming" role that needs to be in this game based on the fact that roleclaims are so powerful in this setup.


Agreed, I see no upside for town. I doubt greymist expected the entire town to mass heal a single person as snb pumps up their hp. More likely is that he has a 250 damage nuke that only works on people who claimed their role name.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 02 2012 21:28 GMT
#5732
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.
Fe fi fo fum.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
December 02 2012 21:33 GMT
#5733
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
Show nested quote +
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.


i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 02 2012 21:35 GMT
#5734
On December 03 2012 06:33 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.


i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health.


Yeah, in cycle 6 you asked, after prompting by others.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 02 2012 21:38 GMT
#5735
On December 03 2012 06:33 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.


i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health.


Did you clarify before or after you started screwing with people's HP? What austin is saying is that you wouldn't/shouldn't have done so without knowing the consequences of your actions. It sounds like a contrived explanation to get out of a tough spot. One way or another, your actions are highly suspicious.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18088 Posts
December 02 2012 21:49 GMT
#5736
Lol. Hey guyses! I just hit a bunch of you for 250 damage a pop, but I swear I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. 250 damage to name claimers.. oh, and it has a side effect which is:

1. Useless and
2. Unverifiable.

Trolololol.

The only question that remains in my mind is why would SnB be dumb enough to claim this and verify that it really is an utterly destructive ability for town? In fact, if there is one person in this game who should know better, it is a scum SnB: he was scum in SSM, the only game where I have seen an early mass claim completely wipe scum from the face of the game, due to a combination of Sandroba's genius and scum completely bolloxing up their fakeclaims.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 02 2012 21:51 GMT
#5737
On December 03 2012 06:49 Acrofales wrote:
Lol. Hey guyses! I just hit a bunch of you for 250 damage a pop, but I swear I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. 250 damage to name claimers.. oh, and it has a side effect which is:

1. Useless and
2. Unverifiable.

Trolololol.

The only question that remains in my mind is why would SnB be dumb enough to claim this and verify that it really is an utterly destructive ability for town? In fact, if there is one person in this game who should know better, it is a scum SnB: he was scum in SSM, the only game where I have seen an early mass claim completely wipe scum from the face of the game, due to a combination of Sandroba's genius and scum completely bolloxing up their fakeclaims.

so the conclusion is SnB is town or retarded scum?
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9644 Posts
December 02 2012 21:53 GMT
#5738
meh im gonna vote a for ozzie so if im right about falling down the holes i can rub it everyones face.


For magus the heals seem like a good idea i think it would be good going forward to have town players closer to full health if possible.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9644 Posts
December 02 2012 22:00 GMT
#5739
I forgot who brought it up before but where the fuck is ve? his heal went missing and he disappeared
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
December 02 2012 22:02 GMT
#5740
1 Hour remaining before the deadline for both voting and night action submition closes.
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
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