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On November 21 2012 12:31 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:29 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 12:27 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong. Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event. Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you? Because you're throwing a second layer of wifom into the mix.
I'll take the information given by that choice over information given by a leader choosing based on his "reads". Seems pretty simple to me.
Do you want information from the choice of one person, or do you want information given from the choices of three people (four, kind of, since you still get information from who the leader chooses)?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
you won't get any information, see above
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On November 21 2012 12:29 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:27 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong. Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event. Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you?
This is fucking stupid. You are aware of this right? Everyone can and should pick themselves. Town know 100% that they are town and scum know that town 100% know themselves to be town so choosing anyone but themselves is butt fuck backwards. This explanation is well past pants on head.
Marv: while Hapa is a cute little hedgehog he is usually a responsive one. Not getting a scum read from his behavior but I am uncomfortable with him not explaining himself and getting defensive instead.
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Marv expressed what I was leading up to pretty well. The bastard.
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You already said that town will pick themselves, scum also have to pick themselves cause of what you just said...
I really dont see the point
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On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
So you want to be as unaccountable as possible. I want you to explain what USEFUL information you think we can gain from this plan? It gives us more sources of information, but less information about more things. Seems to confuse matters. How do you plan to put this "extra" information to good use?
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of course Marv sniped me, the bastard 
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@ Prom:
On November 21 2012 12:25 Promethelax wrote:
I would expect an explanation from you, Hapa, as to why you mind changed. Not an explanation from someone else while you got mad about being asked. My version of your town meta is where you pressure people until they cry and admit that they are scum or poop themselves in fear of your tunnels even though they are town.
What's there to explain? If you insist on one, I changed my mind when I finally figured out how the setup worked and realized I was just spouting nonsensical assumptions about the party system.
[Quote]hapa: How many games have you played with Sandro that make you aware of, and able to read, his meta?
.../QUOTE]
None. Truth be told, I haven't even read through any of his games. Someone mentioned on one of the previous pages that he was supposedly easy to read, so I'm just going off that for now.
@ Kier
[QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote:
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through.[/QUOTE]
No, nonononononnono. No.
First of all, marv is really aware of this part of his game and already compensated for it (i.e. "town read" on iamperfection in GSL III). Second of all, don't trust a hypothetical scum marv to include town people on the team. Hell for all we know electing a scum member as the party leader could be an auto-mission fail.
We need to vote someone as party leader who we are sure is town. Not rationalize picking a vet because he makes accurate "town reads" as either alignment. That's fucking stupid.
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On November 21 2012 12:32 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. Thanks for the confidence boost... ---------------------------------------------- Show nested quote +
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
All this does is show us that you have no confidence in your reads... Also passing the blame if town fails the mission you are leading by saying you didnt pick the party members.. Suspicious behavior
You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to)
That gives us four times the information. How is this bad? Because you have to put more effort into the game and keep track of what people are doing?
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goddammit. Clarity even sniped my calling Marv a bastard in a loving way.
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EBWOP: I suck with quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +@ Prom:On November 21 2012 12:25 Promethelax wrote:
I would expect an explanation from you, Hapa, as to why you mind changed. Not an explanation from someone else while you got mad about being asked. My version of your town meta is where you pressure people until they cry and admit that they are scum or poop themselves in fear of your tunnels even though they are town. What's there to explain? If you insist on one, I changed my mind when I finally figured out how the setup worked and realized I was just spouting nonsensical assumptions about the party system. hapa: How many games have you played with Sandro that make you aware of, and able to read, his meta?
... None. Truth be told, I haven't even read through any of his games. Someone mentioned on one of the previous pages that he was supposedly easy to read, so I'm just going off that for now. @ KierOn November 21 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote:
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through. No, nonononononnono. No. First of all, marv is really aware of this part of his game and already compensated for it (i.e. "town read" on iamperfection in GSL III). Second of all, don't trust a hypothetical scum marv to include town people on the team. Hell for all we know electing a scum member as the party leader could be an auto-mission fail. We need to vote someone as party leader who we are sure is town. Not rationalize picking a vet because he makes accurate "town reads" as either alignment. That's fucking stupid.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
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You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to)
Out of context. I am talking about the end of the day, not now.
If I am proposing myself as party leader, I would have confident reads in the 3 other people I want to choose. OTHERWISE, I will not want to be the party leader.
I am not going to repeat why the information part is bad because it has been already explained
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On November 21 2012 12:35 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. So you want to be as unaccountable as possible. I want you to explain what USEFUL information you think we can gain from this plan? It gives us more sources of information, but less information about more things. Seems to confuse matters. How do you plan to put this "extra" information to good use?
I don't want to be as unaccountable as possible. If you think it's a better idea then why not have it go leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves. Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on. We get information from all the choices, and avoid the problem where everyone will just choose themselves.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
i wonder how long we can discuss this infinitely awful idea for.
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On November 21 2012 12:41 marvellosity wrote:
i wonder how long we can discuss this infinitely awful idea for.
Respond to my modified version?
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On November 21 2012 12:37 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:32 Oatsmaster wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. Thanks for the confidence boost... ----------------------------------------------
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
All this does is show us that you have no confidence in your reads... Also passing the blame if town fails the mission you are leading by saying you didnt pick the party members.. Suspicious behavior You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to) That gives us four times the information. How is this bad? Because you have to put more effort into the game and keep track of what people are doing?
Let me explain it easier why this is stupid:
Let's say player X chooses player Y and so on and the mission fails. What does that tell us about the alignments of the people who picked? Nothing. So it doesn't give us any extra info, because you are relying on 3 dif day 1 reads of 3 dif players, with no way of knowing who made a wrong read or who is scum anyway/
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On November 21 2012 12:37 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:32 Oatsmaster wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. Thanks for the confidence boost... ----------------------------------------------
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
All this does is show us that you have no confidence in your reads... Also passing the blame if town fails the mission you are leading by saying you didnt pick the party members.. Suspicious behavior You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to) That gives us four times the information. How is this bad? Because you have to put more effort into the game and keep track of what people are doing?
Oats: you fluff post was useless. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it. Don't fluff. There is no need. I'm glad to see that you are adding thoughts to the thread now though. Keep that up.
So, Chronicler, you do remember that you are on a Smurf and don't need to be intentionally thick to avoid the NK, right? Because I assume you are a good enough player to need a smurf so you are a good enough player to know that the things you are saying are dumb and won't work.
Hapa: Nothing to explain now. Sorry, didn't word that as well as I meant to. I expected an explanation from you when you were questioned
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You are really not making sense Chronicler..
leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves
Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on.
So the leader has to crapshoot 3 people that he thinks will pick town players?
This just makes it harder to complete the task successfully. Also, as Prome already pointed out, 1 mafia may cause the party to fail and since 3 people are picking 3 other people, it is more likely that they will pick a scum...
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Quantity of information does not equal quality of information.
Moving on... I agree with hapa that the person we vote for has to be clear town, but not newbie town as they need to be strong analytically.
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EPT
