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On November 21 2012 12:57 Promethelax wrote:Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now. You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
I'd rather have scum trying to fuck with us than not.
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Eh, Prom, that was what I was thinking too. I wanted to keep it to myself at least til the morning, but I figured one read was not going to do any harm.
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well i would obviously take the towns input but one person im considering is acrofales.
seems towny so far droping reads and giving reasons seems somewhat towny enough this early on.
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Well, I took some time to check out how resistance works.
Apparently, the rest of the non-party members have no control over the success or fail of an event. The party they chose solely determines that. The less scum, the higher the chances of success.
In this game, however, things seem a bit different. I'm thinking scum have negative numbers associated with them, while towns have positive numbers, and the sum of these overall values will determine the success/failure of an event.
However, in the OP, it says that there are other different and hidden factors that will contribute to determining the outcome of a mission.
Without considering these hidden factors, and thinking solely on the "overall sum" as the determinant factor in succeeding or failing a mission, then there should be some logic behind the numbers appearing, and we will find this out when people start dying (if they show at death).
Since we are in the beggining of the game and little is known, then we should consider that the associate value is equal amongst all people. We want to thin out and gain as much information as possible. Of course it would be ideal to have all members be town and automatically win the missions until the rest of the game.
So what?
We choose our team to gain information. We expect our leader to give reasoning as to why he thinks every single member he has chosen is town. This will gain us a lot of information, as depending on the outcome of the event, people will be able to thoroughly judge the decisions the party leader made. It puts people's heads on the line as to precise thought, and it should be very easy to pick up on "bad cases" should scum actually win.
So I move that we vote a strong player capable of making town reads, but who is also distinguishable and easier to pin down as scum. As I read before I post this, I just realized that I may be repeating a lot of what's been said so... bleh
That being said, I'm thinking we should actually vote sandroba. I've heard he is a capable player and a few people have mentioned that he is easier to pin down when scum. We then impose that he gives us every single line of thought on why he's chosen the party members (trying to choose town of course), and play on based from the result of the mission and from the assumptions I've made earlier on. If he's scum, we should be able to catch him on these grounds.
I guess this makes sense.. anyone?
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also you people that have played with me before do not ignore me you know what i say is true.
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@iamp
I do not doubt your ability to look townie/scummie.
I really really doubt your ability to make townreads.
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also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members?
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On November 21 2012 13:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
@iamp
I do not doubt your ability to look townie/scummie.
I really really doubt your ability to make townreads.
im awesome at making town reads brah
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Okay. I'm pretty much caught up. I'd like to address several things. First:
On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote:
Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on?
Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune?
Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who?
Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers.
Yes. I had much better games after that. I hope there's no hard feelings for that particular game, as I played scum about as terribly as I possibly could clamming up when really saying just about anything would have prevented my early lynch. My other two games:
In NMM XXIV: The hero that saved the town from a 5-3 MYLO to win the game.
In LVII: Mafia suicide bomber. Could have played better but mafia got the win anyway.
Rockband mini: I replaced out day one as scum. Never actually checked to see how it ended.
Who I would nominate (if not myself):
As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.
Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).
I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.
Goodkarma for President:
As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.
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Of course town can type in this thread...
Party Leader has the final call though.. If he sheeps off another persons 'vote' without proper reasoning, he really doesnt look like town
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On November 21 2012 13:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
Of course town can type in this thread...
Party Leader has the final call though.. If he sheeps off another persons 'vote' without proper reasoning, he really doesnt look like town
well if its pretty obvious that two or three guys are town why not put them all in. More town the better right?
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On November 21 2012 12:54 Hapahauli wrote:@ KeiShow nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:45 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 12:38 Hapahauli wrote:@ KierOn November 21 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote:
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through. No, nonononononnono. No. First of all, marv is really aware of this part of his game and already compensated for it (i.e. "town read" on iamperfection in GSL III). Second of all, don't trust a hypothetical scum marv to include town people on the team. Hell for all we know electing a scum member as the party leader could be an auto-mission fail. We need to vote someone as party leader who we are sure is town. Not rationalize picking a vet because he makes accurate "town reads" as either alignment. That's fucking stupid. You have a point here. We don't actually know what would happen if scum is elected party leader for an event. However, if the consensus is to elect a "vet" as party leader, I trust my ability to read marv correctly more than I trust my ability to read any of syllo/sandro/Toad/whoever correctly. In the event that I feel like marv is giving off scummy vibes, I would be super hesitant to vote to elect any of the other "vets", and would then vote for someone else that I am comfortable reading. I'd like to think I know marv's meta as much as anyone here, but I'm still nowhere near as comfortable as you are reading him on Day 1. He's capable of doing some crazy shenanigans as scum early on. Lastly, I'm a bit surprised you're willing to dismiss voting all those other potential vets without having looked into them. For all we know they could have really transparent metas.
You're right, he is capable of pulling off big plays as scum, even day 1. But it's not like I'm giving him a town read already, nor do I plan to vote him until I do. I'm paranoid as fuck when it comes to him, but again, I'm much more confident in my ability to read him than I am any of the other vets, purely because I am extremely familiar with how marv thinks and acts.
As far as dismissing the other vets, its mostly because, besides being boring as fuck, I don't think reading through old games (or even obs'ing current games, to an extent) is a particularly good tool for picking up on a person's meta. I believe you really need to actually play a game with someone before you can start to get a grasp on their meta, and how you expect them to act. You need the emotional investment in the game to pick up things thats you quite possibly miss in the emotionally distanced reading of an old thread.
I'm not saying its impossible to get town reads on someone you've never played with, but I would never ever make a meta read on someone I haven't actually played with. And I would be much, much, much more confident making a town read on someone like iamperfection than I ever would making a town read on someone I haven't ever played with before. Mostly because my town reads have, in the past, generally not been very good.
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On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
...
Goodkarma for President:
As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.
Why are you pre-determining who to include in your party right now? Certainly you couldn't have THAT strong of a town read on the both of them.
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On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members?
That was my original train of thought. But should the decision become the leader's, that puts a TON of pressure on him (if he is very transparent in his thoughts), and helps consolidate our read on said leader.
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On November 21 2012 13:13 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members? That was my original train of thought. But should the decision become the leader's, that puts a TON of pressure on him (if he is very transparent in his thoughts), and helps consolidate our read on said leader.
so we need someone who can hadle pressure well??? Once again me
GSL II me as scum terrible game but got very dicey towards the end kush my partner started to wet his pants but i stayed calm and cool led to my victory.
Another reason to vote me
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On November 21 2012 13:13 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members? That was my original train of thought. But should the decision become the leader's, that puts a TON of pressure on him (if he is very transparent in his thoughts), and helps consolidate our read on said leader.
But if we put up our strongest townread, doesn't that defeat the purpose?
I think we should play more to our wincon when it comes to missions and just scumhunt like it's a regular game.
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On November 21 2012 12:57 Promethelax wrote:Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now. You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
Well that's an easy way to make sure your town reads don't look so suspicious, isn't it?
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Of course input from everyone is welcome and obviously such input is what is considered when you derive your reads. But ultimately I'll choose whoever I have the strongest town reads at the end of the day. If I can't make such strong reads on the less known players, of course I'll move up the ladder until I'm confortable with my read.
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@ iamp
Welcome! As distinguishable as you are, that's not the only thing we're looking for in a party leader. I'd prefer someone with a very strong track-record of accurate D1 town reads. You're definitely someone that can be read early and be a party candidate though.
@ Kei
You're right, he is capable of pulling off big plays as scum, even day 1. But it's not like I'm giving him a town read already, nor do I plan to vote him until I do. I'm paranoid as fuck when it comes to him, but again, I'm much more confident in my ability to read him than I am any of the other vets, purely because I am extremely familiar with how marv thinks and acts.
Err... but you said...
On November 21 2012 12:14 Keirathi wrote:
--Quote Pyramid Omitted--
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through.
Do explain good sir.
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EPT
