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That game is one of the specific ones I'm thinking of in regards to dp's town play. He stays on his targets till he gets a flip, he is sorta.. aggressive.. with his language, especially when people are disagreeing with him. This game he's made extremely questionable votes while not pushing his reads. Town dp reads as the most convicted guy ever and that's not what i'm seeing this game.[/QUOTE]
scum DP is equally if not more aggressive with his language.
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On November 14 2012 11:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Also I'm not voting debears
this is not the same debears who in his last newbie game was abnormally excited about reaching a 30 page filter length, and was very very much the centre of attention.
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It's got to about the stage where I need to be telling people where I am and what I'm thinking.
DarthPunk - earlier in the day he was on my "do not lynch" list as I'd metad him townie. I no longer feel this way. The constant excuses (in relatively long posts too) are wearing me down. He knew how much time he was spending on mafia in the other game when he signed up to this one. If he spent any of the time he spent making excuses doing something productive then we'd be a lot better off. The problem with DP is that as scum I don't see him being quite that useless either, so meh. "Null" is a dull finish, but it's the kinda null where I'm being pulled both ways and I can't make up my mind either way.
debears - I wanted to be more suspicious of debears than I am, but I can't quite make myself again. There's just something about the way he's gone about his ideas, like... the manner he's questioned people on them, that make me think he could be townie. I think he's probably a wily enough operator to fool me like that though, so I'm gonna continue to be wary, but I don't want to lynch him right now.
thrawn - bleh.
Blazing - IF you are town, you need to not be telling Kickstart he is "bad or scum" .... "he can be ignored" ... "he is irrelevant to our discourse." Kickstart has done nothing which I deem to be bad play and wanting to ignore a (however new) player like that is just horrible. Yuck.
Crossfire - I was hoping for something a little more substantive than that after your re-read. The fact you failed to provide it makes me suspicious.
s&b - If you're town, please do something.
Hopeless - My current lynch choice. The only thing he has given to town is his musings on debears' inability to read the thread. At the time I did like that he dropped it when I asked him to, however he hasn't offered town anything at all since. I literally cannot find an opinion from Hopeless on anyone.
On November 14 2012 05:22 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:38 debears wrote:Iamp's switch on Z-Bo is alarming to me. Let me explain why Town read on Z-Bo+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote:
zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. Alright, these two posts seem pretty strong saying that Z-Bo is townie. Note the word use "very risky for scum" and "scum wouldn't put themselves out there like that" On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote:
guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue
He could be scum
he could be vt.
I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? Here he states outright that he has a town read on Z-Bo Note that his town read is a null tell to me. Next, iamp becomes suspicious of BH + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:31 iamperfection wrote:
so uh this guys is like not helping right now and i expect better from him since i hold him in high regards. i say we force his hand.
## Vote Blazinghand
Especially since he made it obvious that he was here with his "lol" Note the timestamp. 30 minutes later, this comes out On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think. Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum. From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game. you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum. Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking. The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o. Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:Loving the activity so far. What I'm not loving is the excess of activity coming from debears. He's being very chit-chatty this game and here's what I find very interesting. He has commented on every single little thing on this game and is posting a ton (which by itself is anti-town, as it clogs up the thread and makes it difficult to read), but when dealing with the only significant thing that has yet happened in this thread, he simply shrugs it off as: On November 13 2012 09:46 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Eh. If it's down to lylo we'll need to take a strong look at it if he's alive. Other than that, nothing much to talk about with the claim For someone who is analytical enough to attempt to judge marv's early game reactions, he's sure not being analytical about my claim. This smells scummy to me. ##vote debears If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:05 Z-BosoN wrote:@Hapa: To be honest, I've had an opposite reaction from iamp's trusting of me. I think scum would think twice before openly accepting any townie claim. In his last scum game, iirc, he was much pickier on his town reads. May be wrong here. @debearsOn November 13 2012 10:16 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one Glad I beat you to it. Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck. ##Unvote##Vote strongandbigDebears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?". z-bo, I face an onslaught of fluff accusations d1 last game. And, in the end, was night killed d1 after having 2/3 of my top reads being the two scum :D Great, grats. So you suffer an onslaught of fluff accusations day one, and yet you still plague the thread with fluff? Do you find nothing wrong with that? @marvSo you say that you fit best the description of actively lurking, and pretty much continue to do that? Tell me more. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Note the two changes here 1) BH is suddenly town because of one case 30 minutes after iamp's original suspicion 2) Z-Bo is suddenly scum because of BH's case Note his poor reasoning. His first point is BH's reasoning. His second point is the "imperfection rule"...Really??????? Also, remember that it was and is the first half of d1 at this point. Why is he jumping on Z-Bo for two fucking posts? Why is he jumping on a case from a person whom he thought was suspicious 30 minutes prior? See how poor that reasoning is? When you switch from a town read to a scum read, you're reasoning should be pretty good. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. Ok. What does this line from his vote post on Z-Bo tell us about iamp? 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no timePoint 1 is a null tell. Point 2 doesn't make any sense from a townie perspective. What are your guy's thoughts??? The only thing I really disagree with is the 'guilty conscience' as I would probably do the same thing. However, he not only flipflopped his town read, he sheeped his former scumread, with poorly explained reasoning as noted. I need to review his meta looking for posts like this: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:35 iamperfection wrote:also ## Unvote HapaI liked his thinking in this post On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. For now... This post is so trivial...the explanation is like asking "Why?" and getting the answer "Because."
This post. It looks like he might be saying something but actually he isn't. It's just summing up the post he's responding to, and summarising. He needs to review iamp's meta but has not, despite making a post half an hour after this one indicating he was still around with the capability to do so.
##Vote: Hopeless1der
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Hopeless, what do you think of iamp right now?
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On November 14 2012 22:30 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think hes null. I found the phrase "tell me" (more/please/what you know) alot in his filter and thought I could use that against his meta somehow, but he says it as either alignment best I can tell.
Liquid City he barely explains his reasoning, he was blue.
GSL II, similar traits, but scum.
I'd rather lynch BH over iamperfection today if that puts anything in perspective. That is not me saying I want to lynch BH, he's just higher on the list than perfection.
So you no longer find how iamp flipflopped on Z-Boson particularly scummy?
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I hadn't really looked at debears in the manner of how many people he'd talked about. I'll have to look into that :x
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just as i'd decided to vote you, now i don't want to anymore. this is annoying.
##unvote
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On November 14 2012 22:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. hmm apparently both marv and bh disagree with me for agreeing that dp is usually more aggressive and in-your-face and not-wishy-washy than he is in this game. I'm pretty sure that at least one of marv and bh is town, if they were both scum BH wouldn't have claimed like that. I'll have to think a little bit or reread some darthpunk history if I really want to vote for him I guess.
Please do.
What you need to look at, s&b, is his scum games. It's no use saying "he's not this wishy washy as town" - because I completely agree with this, he isn't.
He's not as scum either, though.
To the bold: quite.
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iamp, who do you wanna lynch buddy
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On November 14 2012 23:08 strongandbig wrote:
oh forgot to unvote debears (I think that's who I was voting?)
still think he's scum and would possibly be willing to consolidate on him if we need to consolidate but bh is just shouting "hey i'm scummy" at me
##unvote
##vote: blazinghand
While I agree with you that he's scummy, I just don't think the best "technical solution" or what have you is to lynch him today.
Do you have any reasons for calling debears scummy other than the Kenpachi rule?
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On November 14 2012 23:06 Clarity_nl wrote:
Marv, how did Hopeless convince you to unvote him?
I think we're getting to the point where we have to consolidate a bit, narrow our focus.
As much as I want to lynch BH, I don't think lynching a blue claim day 1 is smart. If he's scum that's great, he definitely might be, but if he flips JK or VT we're fucked. There won't be any useful information for us.
@ everyone
Is it safe to say that not idiotic lynch candidates are: Thrawn, Darthpunk, Hopeless, Crossfire and MAYBE debears?
I've been having a hard time reading hapa, but the cases against him haven't convinced me whatsoever, and looking at his filter myself.... I haven't found anything I would consider scummy, but I definitely don't get a town vibe.
He did actually seem to have looked at a couple of iamp's games, at least what he said seems true (iamp does say things like "tell me more" a lot).
Clarity, you have first hand experience of debears from last game.
Tell me about him. How is he like to play with this game compared to last? What has he given you that you were expecting, or what are you missing? Your insight is particularly valuable here.
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On November 14 2012 23:12 iamperfection wrote:
just trying the dear on marv want to see how it feels
that'll be $10
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debears, tell me how you feel about Hapa.
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On November 15 2012 00:48 Blazinghand wrote:
here via phone. anyo e votibg me needs to explain how my play this game is diferent than Storm Mafja or similar to any of the scum games ive played especially since a nontrivial component of the case is meat. no getting off voting me on meta wkfbojt at least doing your HW and staking out a position you can be held to. Ill be back in a few hours prk ably to vote one of these guys trying to opt out of the discussion by voti g me or more likely to call tbem Bad and develep DP case or talk Bout hopeless 1 meat
Take more time on your phone, man.
Anyway, I'll bite.
First things first: you are a clever dude. You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you.
Things that have struck me this game with that:
- You called iamp "bad" at least a couple of times. Just outright calling him a bad player. This is in contrast to say Rock Band where you railed at him for poor play and you kept pushing him to play better. Here you call him bad and that's different.
- You called Kickstart "scum or bad", he should be "ignored", he should be "removed from our discourse" (or whatever the direct quote was). The townie BH I know does not completely belittle players like this. This boils down to pretty much outright bullying of a brand new player, and that is not the townie BH I know.
- we've also talked about this before again, but one reason you're pretty good as town is that you make yourself look positively townie with your play. I don't give a shit if you got mislynched once, that's how you normally play town. Here your play is marked by put downs, sarcastic remarks, and very little positive input.
- your case on Z-Boson. This was going to be part of my 'quiz', but if we take a look at your two most recent town-games, Rock Band and Whose Line, your first cases are marked by extensive use of meta. X is scummy because of Y, and look at how he played in this game and this game and this game to try to prove your argument. In this game you made no effort to research Z-Boson's meta, and that's not what I expect of a town BH. In contrast, your first major case as SK in Emergency Mafia also failed to utilise any meta as a supporting argument. Same with Bureaucracy.
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On November 15 2012 01:12 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:10 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 01:01 DarthPunk wrote:
SO it seems as if he case against me boils down to meta almost completely and yet my play this game conforms to neither my town nor my scum meta.
Let me tell you what I was doing today. I know people hate this kind of shit. But honestly FU all.
I am house sitting for my sister whilst she goes to Vietnam and Thailand for a month. She leaves tomorrow. So I had to pick up the keys and go over the care of her cats and dog.
Then my friend who I haven't seen for three years was here so I grabbed lunch with him. I had 4 hours in which I had time to not only post in two games, but do various chores before my friend and several others went out for dinner and drinks. I stayed out till now when it is almost 3am and then I get back completely wasted to post in this damn mafia thread with a bunch of idiots who want to mislynch me.
Yes you are idiots. The case is a meta case in which I am deviating from both my scum and my town meta. If I didn't care about being correct I could shit out some cases right now and most likely not get lynched.
I can make fucking excuses because they are true and I didn;t have the time to day to do the amount of reading I like to do in both games. So I prioritised the other game. Holy Shit. you know I need to read 4 end game filters in that game right?? And this game is progressing at a million miles an hour.
Literally I take 5 minutes to write my defence posts but it would take me hours to read enough to be comfortable pushing a lynch.
Because I give a fuck about being right in my reads. Holy shit. that is a town tell if I ever saw one.
I am drunk as fuck writing this post at 3 am when I should rightly be in bed because the best thing I can contribute right now.] is to try and prevent my mislynch.
Honestly. The meta case against me is complete bullshit because it is a shift of meta for both alignments.
Give me one more day to prove my self and to let me shape up. If I don;t you can lynch me.
Holy shit this is some bullshit.
Dont be cry baby about it prove your town by scum hunting. no one really gives a shit about your irl stuff. You are not scumhunting either do so or die at this point. I want to win this game and if your town your not helping me win That is so fucking fallacious. Lynching bad townies does not further your win condition. If you think it does you are fucking terrible.
stop replying to things and look at a filter or two, please.
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On November 15 2012 01:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
Marv you're gonna have to tell me what this quiz thing was, or maybe refer me to where you did it in another game? I'm intrigued.
@ Darth
You're not getting lynched today, if you had read the thread you would know this.
I was planning on pulling up BH's cases in Rock Band, Whose Line, Emergency, possibly Bureaucracy, and here.
And playing "spot the difference" and "guess the alignment" with each post. Like I said above there, the two previous town games had lots of meta as supporting evidence. Here nothing - if you recall, I specifically asked BH earlier in the thread whether he had looked into Z-Bo's meta at all, and he had not.
I previously did a 'quiz' in Rock Band where I pulled up a bunch of Palmar posts from previous games as well as that game and asked people to guess the alignment. I put two list posts from scum games, as well as a really detailed thought out post from a town game, next to his list post from that game.
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why are Hapa and debears town reads, DP?
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I had a dig through filters because I was interested in gauging some reactions to BH's claim.
thrawn - doesn't mention it. He makes me uncomfortable with his absence, but... meh.
debears - also doesn't mention it. At all. I find this *extremely* odd, given that he commented on s&b's "claim" and also referenced Z-Bo's. It seems unlike him not to comment on it at all. The only time he's really mentioned it is screaming in all caps that we're not lynching a claimed blue Day 1.
Hopeless - also doesn't mention it. Which is extremely odd for this reason:
On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
-snip-
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass?
Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
Attacks debears for not commenting on BH's claim but hasn't done so himself.
I cannot explain why very clearly, but I just don't think we should be lynching DarthPunk today.
I think the lynch should be between Hopeless and debears, and I'd like people to talk about that, a lot. At the moment this makes me lean on Hopeless (and yes, I'm aware I'm flipflopping on him like mad).
##Vote: Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 01:54 strongandbig wrote:
posting briefly from work -
marv do you honestly believe bh was really being that dumb? Like, do you think he is telling the truth about why and how he claimed?
It doesn't matter right now. It can be assessed much better tomorrow after night actions. wifomwifomwifom.
If I had to choose I'd say BH was scum, but I'm nowhere near certain enough on it to lynch into a claimed blue without any further flip information.
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