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On November 03 2012 05:48 drazak wrote:
Also why do all of you say my name with 2 z's, it's really freaking disrespectful and shows you don't read any of the posts.
I pay less attention to your posts because they are fluffy.
+ Show Spoiler +I recognize people more by their icons than names:
Acro is the muta
You are the marine
I am the ghost
Kush is the queen
etc.
I did the same thing to sciberbia(i called him sciberia) in newb XVI.
This is extremely trivial and that you take a hostile tone to such a thing is not looking good for you.
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On November 03 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:53 Release wrote:On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote:On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote
##vote: PromethelaxNo worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler +accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
I.voted for muso for this reason:
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen.
Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake.
I am anvil vanilla town.
My theory is vts do not have character names.
The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name.
You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts. I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine. As the great Flamewheel said: Wat? I don't care what page you were on, you can still give reasons for voting someone. Now, what are your reasons? Kush: no one should be claiming until it is truly necessary, there have been enough dumb claims today and we should rely on our ability to play mafia and not our ability to read claim posts.
Ummm... This post that i made before the other post
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 05:42 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote:
'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said?
Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me.
Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote:
<snip>
See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum.
<snip>. Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation: You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information. The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members. 1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses. 2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc. I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum.
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Vote count?
If at 14:59 we have 6 votes on Muso, I will switch. I am a firm believer that nolynch day1 sucks balls for town.
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On November 03 2012 06:03 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:59 Release wrote:On November 03 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote:On November 03 2012 05:53 Release wrote:On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote:On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote
##vote: PromethelaxNo worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler +accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
I.voted for muso for this reason:
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen.
Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake.
I am anvil vanilla town.
My theory is vts do not have character names.
The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name.
You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts. I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine. As the great Flamewheel said: Wat? I don't care what page you were on, you can still give reasons for voting someone. Now, what are your reasons? Kush: no one should be claiming until it is truly necessary, there have been enough dumb claims today and we should rely on our ability to play mafia and not our ability to read claim posts. Ummm... This post that i made before the other post + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 05:42 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote:
'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said?
Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me.
Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote:
<snip>
See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum.
<snip>. Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation: You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information. The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members. 1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses. 2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc. I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum. Missed this, sorry Release. you are misunderstanding what I am saying (which in general means I should have worded it better). 1) His lynch seems like a coin flip, so it only has about a ~50% chance of netting us scum (that is Muso himself) you say 50%. We have no idea how many mafia there are but 4 or less is what i feel is accepted.
This means either (not likely imo) you literally mean a coin flip or (more likely imo) you think that he is more scummy than each of the rest of town (except drazak). I don't see why you feel averse to lynching him because 50% is a very strong feeling in such a game as mafia.2) a secondary point is that it also won't give us any information. you seem to mention this in context of the Muso thing so: so what? The or scum and this together states that you would rather lynch a townie to get information than a mafia that "gives us [no] information" which still, seems scummy. Yes, the wording and sentence structure around "or scum" is poor but this is a glaring slip.The if you are townie and flip w/o giving information: It begs of a "regardless of my alignment, don't lynch me (i just realized this next part) because I have not contributed in a way that would help town were I to die" - to me, that is definitely a slip.Some of this is a bit far-fetched, but those are what i see. we should lynch someone who has a higher chance of flipping scum (Draz) and who, no matter the flip will provide us with more information. The primary goal is the red flip, the secondary goal is what we can learn from the red/green flip.
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yeah, the red isn't meant to subtly mean scum, it's just a color. Please don't take it as propaganda/etc.
Just my response in a different color.
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On November 03 2012 06:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
anybody wanna lynch release? several of his posts give the impression that he feels guilty
quotes
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If it's the red thing, as with other things, i hate leaving some loose end that can be thrown in my face later in the day/night so i clarify things.
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7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax.
It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead.
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On November 03 2012 06:42 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 06:41 Release wrote:
7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax.
It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. don't use the "if you dont listen to me your a noob" argument, explain what you mean so that we have it on record
7 on muso,
5 on prom (or 6 with zealos).
If we get a last minute switcheroo, which rarely happens if ever, we have easy target for day2 / vig. It doesn't affect the game much at all and a tiny bit of insurance.
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On November 03 2012 06:48 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 06:41 Release wrote:
7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax.
It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. Huh? Why do you want the vote to be easily manipulatable by scum? 8 is a good number. You are pretty much condoning last-minute shenanigans with this bullshit. Two people switch at the last second and claim they were doing what you wanted, but didn't see the other's switch. It's stupid. 8 is fine, 9 is better for consolidation.
If two people switch, and neither switches back and prome turns up town, we have 2 confirmed scum. Sounds nice.
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On November 03 2012 06:51 drazak wrote:
What. Didn't you say you didn't want a nolynch and you thought it was bad? Maybe it was someone else, but if we divide the vote we could get a no-lynch and then we're screwed.
Go read. I did say that.
And i only asked for 1 of 8 to switch so we still have a majority. Ofc, if we end up with nolynch, we know whom we should blame and lynch/shoot.
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On November 03 2012 10:32 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote:
Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion.
So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly.
Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. con-tra-dick-shun
You expected me to deliberately not vote what appeared to be very scummy behavior?
Hell, i could have chosen accro too if i wanted to lynch-all-liars. I chose Muso for the scummy manner in which he lied.
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I don't want any surprises: is zealos going to be modkilled?
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can we still post potentially influential posts now that it's past the deadline?
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I'm not good at setup based play (hence why i didn't comment directly on mason/miller claiming)
so i ask: is this a time for the vig to speak up and show his breadcrumb?
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My final post was on prome. Just saying.
Does that change your case at all?
More to come.
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On November 05 2012 04:01 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 03:59 Acrofales wrote:On November 05 2012 03:56 Release wrote:
My final post was on prome. Just saying.
Does that change your case at all?
More to come. LOL. Lurking much? Thanks for confirming my point about you only showing up when accused of being scum, scum. That was uncanny...Release, scumreads if you please. Despite reading Prom as scum, he's at least talkative. What do you have going on?
I had a tentative theory against Kush, Draz, Acro, and Prome last night that i was waiting for more information to support (i was especially waiting for Kush and Prome) but that didn't happen, and the Cop check doesn't really help me too much either but since Kush is not a confirmed townie, i'll post my read later anyways.
+ Show Spoiler +I just woke up and am eating breakfast, so give me a break
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Passive lurking. I didn't make posts, you knew i was lurking, i'll even state that:
I was lurking.
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Kush has been pushing his flavor theory all game.
Wherebugsgo specifically said that the game could not be broken based on this so i don't know why he keeps pushing it. Even though the nightkills and Muso seem to strengthen this theory, I wouldn't believe for a second that the theory will work for every player.
The way i see it, Kush has been hugging this theory so closely so that at any time in the game, he can safely change his mind about anything (more likely a suspected scum and claim town) without having to provide a legitimate reason for doing so. Drazzak is an excellent example of this:
I'm pretty sure i established that Drazzak's filter is pretty much all fluff and there is a paucity of useful information in there if at all during day 1.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 23:54 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:36 drazak wrote:
Yeah, I'm getting a bit fed up with Kush asking for everyone to claim everything, that smells a little scummy to me. Kind of not sure if it's just kush being stupid and trolling like usual (yes, I know, I'm omgusing, don't care) or if he's actually got a larger scheme here.
Kush has admited to me a bunch of times that he doesn't thinks before he posts, so I dunno, but he keeps being stupid I think we can chalk it up to stupidity/trolling, if he stops, it was probably a scheme.
I'm not sure what to think about prom, the case against him is ok, but maybe prplhz was distracted and/or confused. Well draz is being wish washy as fuck here. So you felt the need to weigh in on both me and prom, even though you have no idea what to think of either of them? DRAZZAKAnyone I am NOT trolling. I don't see how you would come to that conclusion. I have been focusing on mechanics rather than behavior, though, that is true. I will focus on whatever I need to to find scum honestly. Analyzing behavior and analyzing mechanics are both tools you can and should use. I don't know why anyone would dismiss either. Hypothetically, let's say that all vts have non character names like the ones that have been revealed so far (anvil, kid watching tv). Do you really think the mod would give break up that theme by randomly giving 1 vt a character name?
here Kush points out one of drazzak's fluffy posts, and calls him scummy because of the wishy-washiness. Fair enough.
Here is the vote for the fluffiness:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 01:03 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:17 drazak wrote:
I don't see any reason to change my vote, I honestly have no freaking clue why muso did what he did, but there's nothing town about it, if he is town, he's doing a very bad job establishing himself as town.
I hope he isn't town though, a D1 mafia kill would definitely ensure our town victory. Six hours till lynch. If we want to lynch someone based on behavior I think it should be drazak. He has contributed nothign he has not given any reads except saying he doesn't know. "A D1 mafia kill would definite ensure our town victory" LOL... no it wouldn't. Also why would town say that? Completely unproductive comment. He's just trying to paint himself as town. Anyway, read drazzak's filter it's real short.
##unvote
##vote drazzakI still want any vt with a character name to claim btw. If no one claims then I will also want to lynch acro.
as well as some more blue-hunting and hugging his theory.
However
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote:
huh its a great time for him to claim imo. It looks like he's going to be lynched right now, so he should claim before its too late.
##unvote
So I need another wagon now. On November 03 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
carrot fits perfectly. He came up with it fast.
No one else is a viable lynch but muso.
Kush doesn't exonerate Drazzak for anything particularly townie except for his theory.
This suggests that Kush established his love of his theory so that (as i mentioned earlier) he could change his mind without having to appear too conspicuous. This also suggests that the aggression against Drazzak was not really agression because the points against Drazzak were his fluffiness and wishy-washyness, neither of which was defended against or given any justification.
Essentially, Kush has freed himself from voting almost-certain scum because of his theory.
I don't see any townie motivation for voting against someone that seems so scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 14:05 kushm4sta wrote:Acrofales There's the flavor theory but that is just one piece of the puzzle. What are the odds of two town fake claiming? I think it was a calculated scum risk. Question to people who know mafia possibilities better than me: Is there some way scum could know muso was fake claiming? Even if he didn't know, consider this: Would acro's claim have looked more scummy if Muso turned out to be mason? It seems like the is yes, but there is equal scumminess to action whether muso was mason or not. This is because when the action took place, acro had no way to know if the claim was fake or not. The only tool he had to discern the fake claim was his wits, which he has as mafia or town. So don't let muso not being mason make you think his action is any less scummy. His defense is that it would be retarded for scum to fake claim. Do you see how that logic is circular? It is retarded for scum to do that, therefore doing that makes you look town, therefore it is smart for scum to do that. Also don't forget the flavor theory!
Here he gives some justifiable reason for being suspicious of Acro (acro's scumminess doesn't become affected much by Muso's flip and this reveals nothing about Acro)
And he butthugs his flavor theory too.
On November 03 2012 22:57 kushm4sta wrote:
@prome You said your name doesn't fit my flavor theory, so why wouldn't you claim? You are basically calling yourself vt with that statement so the damage from claiming is already done. You might as well just do it
@Acro you actually bring up some good points in your defense.
1 Town has more reason to think the claim is fake because they do not know who mafia is.
2 Bugs games are meticulously put together and they would not have some broken mechanic that overrules scumhunting
So for those reasons I'm laying off acro.
Agreement with Acro's defense. I feel this is reasonable. Not tunneling.
However, in bold is the gold: The flavor theory cannot overdo scumhunting, which begs:
Why did Kush give himself a free pass on unvoting drazzak for flavor and voting Muso? (actually because theoretically he hadn't realized it yet.) But plenty of people had called the flavor theory retarded before Acro did and he dismissed them all, yet he agrees with Acro.
Again, the way I see it, the agression against Acro was never meant to be agression at all. He simply did this hint doubt at Acro's behavior, only to exonerate him later.
In fact, at this point, i don't think Kush has actually had any forceful (or strongly self-supported) cases against anyone.
he voted for Muso because "there's no one else"
Despite this golden post, he still hugs his flavor theory, which i think at this point is completely bullshit and has the scum motivation of giving him an excuse to switch votes without having any legitimate reason.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 02:49 kushm4sta wrote:
Prome already said his name does not fit my flavor theory. Prome please claim, since you already admitted to being a vt.
If that is a character name I will stfu about flavor theory forever.
Also why did you reveal it now and not during d1?
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What is the difference between risk town and risk scum? Does anyone know?
Same question for mattchew.
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3 people want to lynch me now! Zealos, acro, thrawn. Anyone else?
Are there any questions you want me to answer? The cases are quite spread out so it's a little hard to respond to everything.
Summary of the case against me:
1 over reliance on flavor theory
I have been pretty obsessed with it sorry.
2 blue hunting
I just wanted more evidence for my theory. I only ever advocated 1 vt claiming their name. Also I thought mason should claim in the beginning but changed my mind about it. (The reason I actually made the case for mason claiming is I read in Sandroba's filter from a game a long something he said about there being no downside to millers claiming. But I thought he were talking about the role that is actually masons. Then I see someone this game talking about millers claiming and that authoritative opinion is only enforced, so I assume millers claiming is a smart play.)
^ a lot of text about something pretty insignificant.
3 thrawn saying im off my meta
Every game I try to improve and play better. I am being less emotional I think it's better play. (and also I've been hurt so many times in the past)
4 my "scumslip"
I said "Why is town fake claiming?"
2 people fakeclaimed mason. I doubt both of them are mafia. So I can say with almost a certainty that town is fakeclaiming because at least one of them is town.
1) he doesn't stop obsessing with the flavor theory
2) he uses the flavor theory as a defense for blue-hunting which is entirely unacceptable
3) w/e (i always have thought meta is bullshit anyways)
4) reasonable enough.
_________________________________________________________
After this he does have some aggression against Prome and what i was waiting for all night and for most of the day was some sort of the same reconciliation (similar to Acro's and Draz's) but such a reconciliation didn't happen. This is why i have been lurking.
_______________________________________________________________
On November 04 2012 23:34 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 06:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
anybody wanna lynch release? several of his posts give the impression that he feels guilty thrawn why did you say this right before lynch, esp when you said muso had the best chance of flipping red?
On November 05 2012 04:20 kushm4sta wrote:
With all this claim nonsense we forgot about hoe scummy release looks lol.
You case convinces me.
##unvote
##vote release
We forgot even though thrawn gave us a friendly reminder? Dream on.
In conlusion, acrofales, drazzak, kush/ and prome
Kush is the godfather and prome, the serial killer.
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EPT
