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On October 29 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:36 Rad wrote:On October 29 2012 12:30 Djodref wrote:@ RadCheck this out, I have already posted it but w/e... On October 29 2012 11:04 Djodref wrote:
There is no town player wanting to lynch a SK in a 5vs3vs1 situation because it brings you to a 4vs3 situation the following day. 4vs3 is the worst situation you can ever get for town. Lylo situation are always tricky but on this one the 4 town players have to vote for the same mafia player or else town loses. I would be surprised that town dandel did not consider that.
Conclusion, dandel is scum It's not dandel first game. I guess he knows about the risks of a lylo. Ok so let's say we have 5v3v1. Town lynches town, SK kills town. 3v3v1 Is that a better situation than 4v3 with no SK? @ RadOk, I get your point, but you are only considering the worst possibility. Nothing says that we cannot find a scum if we decide not to lynch a SK and the SK would try to kill a mafia more than anything else during the night. That's why any town player should go for scum today instead of going for the SK. Moreover, getting rid of the SK is a high priority for the mafia because he can kill them.
If you claimed SK right now, then I think we should still try to hunt down a scum before lynch, and then decide on what to do at that point. I do NOT think that dandel voting on who he thinks to be an SK 36 hours before end of day is scummy given our current scenario. No one had claimed vigi yet, and at the very least it could be a pressure move. Also, you're super scummy as it is so I think it's a great move to put pressure on you however possible (if you're town, I'd think you should agree on that point).
I was asking an honest question before. I don't actually know if 3v3v1 is a worse scenario than 4v3. You've now said it is worse. Please explain:
On October 29 2012 12:34 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Inig
I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.
In regards to the SK thing... I don't see why lynching the SK is ever a bad thing. What's the issue? It is most definitely in towns wincon. @ CheeseLynching a possible SK today would be terribad. Check my previous posts about it, it makes you go from 5vs3vs1 to 4vs3. If you want me to detail you why 4vs3 is the worst situation ever, I can elaborate.And I would like to remind you that we are not even sure that Roco is going to survive and he could also be town ad far as we know.
I would, in fact, like you to elaborate.
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@Cheese
I agree. I was not convinced with Alsn's argument on Dandel. I also did not agree with Djo's. My only problem with Dandel right now is his attitude which hasn't been very helpful to town.
I'm going to have to re-read your case on Djo. To be honest, when I read it, I was thinking you were scum buddies with kush, so I think I ignored a lot of it. It might help me at this point with my own thoughts on Djo.
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@Cheese
About inig, I'm on the fence. He feels newbie townie to me, or something like that. Also, at the same time, I get a scummy feeling, like if I dismiss ideas about being a newbie townie, then he's really scummy.
I think the lurkers are really hurting here, and if they're town, they really screwed us over. If I had input from them to consider, I think I would have a stronger feeling about inig one way or the other. In the end, there's 2 people I have no clue about and that messes up my thought process completely.
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On October 29 2012 13:10 debears wrote:
##Unvote
Something is really suspicious here. My 2 top scum reads sheep on a case so hard and argue with bad reasoning (even making up ones)
who were your top 2 scum reads?
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@debears At what point did dandel become NOT your top scum read?
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@debears to clarify for my sake, you're saying you voted dandel in an attempt to see who else would take the bait?
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@debears what do you think of Alsn then?
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I'm curious, does he have any meta examples where he's scum and doing the same thing (or something different)?
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On October 29 2012 13:30 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:28 Rad wrote:
I'm curious, does he have any meta examples where he's scum and doing the same thing (or something different)? For Dandel?
Yeah, I'd be curious to compare the 2 if you happen to know of any examples of his scum play
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@djo Let's say lynching the SK is sub-optimal. Can you see a reason for dandel to call you out as SK or scum and place a vote on you that early in the day? Do you not think that's a reasonable pressure move?
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@Cheese djo made a very strong statement about lynching an SK at this point being the worst case scenario. It was a major point of his case on dandel, one that inig jumped in and said "yeah that makes sense!". I called him out on it and he's responding. I feel it's appropriate discussion.
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On October 29 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off. @ CheeseWell, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched. People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie.
You had some pressure on you d1 but I don't think you were at risk of getting lynched. Multiple people had said "he inputs enough good conversation, if he's scum he'll slip up at some point" and for whatever reason, we all moved on to inig and da0ud. You may have been scared early on but you know you weren't scared at all the last hours before the lynch. Hell, you even called cheese out about why his vote was still on you because obviously you weren't a lynch candidate at that point.
Also you need to stop about the "no one defended me" garbage. We had 2 lurkers then and we have the same 2 lurkers now (1 replaced with a new person, but same role in this game). Also, you just haven't needed a scum buddy to take your side until right now, and it's super dangerous to do so at this point.
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@debears thanks for putting that piece together. I suppose it's reasonable to think that dandel could be changing his meta up for future games (meaning he's scum this game and trying to act like his other game's town) but it's interesting to see how similar his town is to this game while how different his scum is.
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On October 29 2012 13:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@AnyoneInig makes this comment after I call him out on sheeping the Dandel case, and having posts that don't contribute. Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job. What are you even trying to say here? I'm not sure I understand what it means. Can anyone clarify a motivation behind this post?
No, I was hoping to get a response from him. It doesn't make any sense to me either.
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@cheese what's your stance on dandel right now? I know you thought he was scummy before but that djo was more scummy. Has that changed?
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@djo
Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night.
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On October 29 2012 14:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 14:10 Rad wrote:
@djo
Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night. @ RadIt didn't change the fact that he still voted for me for being a SK rather than Ini for being a scum.
He didn't make the "I'm voting for SK" argument minutes before lynch and then let his vote ride into a lynch. He made it after a double NK where I hadn't claimed vigi yet. He had well over a full day left to change it up. At the very least it was a pressure move and I think a good one. It's not like everyone was going to read his case and go "yep let's kill the SK!" and no one talk until lynch. It has helped town a lot because it's gotten a variety of opinions since.
Let me rephrase.
His vote and reasoning is not important because it hasn't done anything yet. It's just there, making you anxious and causing discussion.
If he votes inig, what happens?
Inig posts once, maybe twice, goes afk.
What do you do? You talk a loooootttt. That creates something for us to discuss. Furthermore, his points were interesting and valid.
What new can he post about inig? Nothing at that point.
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Roco's back...
/facepalm
Isn't he just straight up mod replaced and/or modkilled at night now? Or, how will this work since he missed last vote...
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On October 29 2012 14:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 14:22 Rad wrote:On October 29 2012 14:14 Djodref wrote:On October 29 2012 14:10 Rad wrote:
@djo
Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night. @ RadIt didn't change the fact that he still voted for me for being a SK rather than Ini for being a scum. He didn't make the "I'm voting for SK" argument minutes before lynch and then let his vote ride into a lynch. He made it after a double NK where I hadn't claimed vigi yet. He had well over a full day left to change it up. At the very least it was a pressure move and I think a good one. It's not like everyone was going to read his case and go "yep let's kill the SK!" and no one talk until lynch. It has helped town a lot because it's gotten a variety of opinions since. Let me rephrase. His vote and reasoning is not important because it hasn't done anything yet. It's just there, making you anxious and causing discussion. If he votes inig, what happens? Inig posts once, maybe twice, goes afk. What do you do? You talk a loooootttt. That creates something for us to discuss. Furthermore, his points were interesting and valid. What new can he post about inig? Nothing at that point. @ RadTrue enough, pressuring me made me talk a lot. But I think he forgot about Inig and wanted to lynch me instead. Remember that not wanting to lynch scum is a big scum-tell.
You think dandel "forgot about about inig"? Come on djo...
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EPT
