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that's very interesting i'm going to read through the ON vs hopeless stuff
so correct me if i'm getting this wrong but the logic works out to be like this:
ON is scum. Sand is town. Scum don't want a scum in the finals. That;s why hopleess was originally set to advance instead of ON. We know this because it was ET who pushed ON into the finals, and ET is town. If hopeless and ON were both scum, then scum should have been bussing ON because he would have been the less detrimental loss. It would have made no sense for scum to push a scum hopeless into finals rather than a scum ON.
Therefore the scum plan was to move hopeless (who is town) into the finals?
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And look at the voting results:
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
sandroba vs djodref 4-0
To me that very clearly suggests scum activity behind the hopeless vs ON matchup... and the two who voted for hopeless were kush/djo. I suggest everyone go and read the r3 part of the thread.
I see only three possible scenarios:
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
I really think there is something too all this but lets please keep the discussion from reaching wifom insanity
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Ok right now I consider the following 100% true, I don't see any loopholes. One of the following statements MUST BE TRUE.
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) town hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
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yeah my motivation to read through D1 again just went from about 10% to 100... but trying to extend the argument any further starts getting really wifomy pretty quickly.
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I think it's very, very safe to assume hopeless is town. Apart from the finals, ON vs Hopeless was the most contested matchup. Doesn't that strongly suggest that hopeless is town now that we know ON is scum?
concerning the three options I listed earlier:
For kush to be scum that would have meant that he was bussing the shit out of ON. I checked the voting thread against the real thread and it was kush who pushed ON over the edge. Also I have a pretty strong meta town read on him. Djo, I still think he's town.... but I am way less certain of him being town than kush being town. So now I need to decide if either Djo is scum, or if town hopeless was set to advance into the finals without mafia voting interference. Djo said he thought this would be likely because hopeless was playing scummy even by his own account.
I'm not really sure that I can make much more of this without delving into wifom so for now I'm just going to assume hopeless is town and carry on from there.
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On October 17 2012 21:44 kushm4sta wrote:
guys real cases against thrawn and djo and a closer look at Austin is coming when I get home.
I hate all these assumptions about scumvotes d1.
I think its very.possible that they thought he would be modkilled, so they took the opportunity to gain town points from the situation.
fuck if this is a scumslip and I ignore it I'll be pissed at myself later... kush is that why you lynched ON? To gain towncred?
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I was talking about r4 not r3
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djo I don't like how defensive you're being about your votes for hopeless....
also you've had me as your strongest town read all game and one time you even told kush to "trust thrawn".... I'm beginnng to suspect some buddying going on
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kush could you elaborate more about your hesitations on da0? The one reason I think he's town is because he shows a lot of newbie paranoia in his scumhunting process. Like early on he was making elaborate association cases, that kind of stuff. That is the type of stuff that townies do. He's either my #1 lynch candidate or like my #6 lol.
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Look at da0's recent posts. He lists me as his top town read. Kush jumps on him for it and asks him to explain. Da0's response was that he needs to "look into" why I'm his top town read. I don't know how he can have a top town read and not be able to give an explanation for it even at a moment's notice. Then after his investigation is complete he comes back and now I'm his top scum read. And the reasons he gave in his case against me were just downright silly. The whole thing just looked like him trying to avoid the wrath of kush so I moved him up the list.
I really don't know what to make of him. Like I've said I want to think he's town because his scumhunting shows newbie townie paranoia (crazy association cases etc) but there's so much against him.... and this last flip flop has been truly wtf.
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On October 18 2012 00:00 Hopeless1der wrote:
I just tried to make sense of da0ud's filter's 2nd page but there's too many mistyped names for me to properly make sense of the logic. My basic conclusion is based on the tone and language he used and that his posting made it sound like he had pretty much solved who was scum/town when it was:
Hopeless vs Sandroba (He felt sandroba was scum)
but when it was
ON vs sandroba he was no longer sure of anything. His change in tone and conviction is drastic and is not adequately justified. I see massive scum motivation in trying to avoid taking a definitive stance in order to gauge the town atmosphere and attempt to push for sandroba's mislynch.
What are you referring to with hopeless vs sandroba I don't recall that being a matchup
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hopeless why is memtoss your highest town read?
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kush dont be fucking dumb read the thread(s) that's how you learn things
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kush i'm gonna get pissed if I have to link it to you
Right now I'm thinking scum are between da0 austin hiro and maybe djo. my town reads are hopeless/memtoss/kush. Da0 is the hardest for me to decide on. He's either way up high (#1) on the list or way down low. A lot of what I think makes him scum could just be newbness or language barrier
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and it needs updating because of all the hopeless speculation that went on earlier but I'm gonna wait cuz I don't want to spam the voting thread. but basically hopeless is way more town and probably memtoss along with him. not really sure about djo atm, but i've been getting town vibes off him all game except for the very start
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1 da0ud
2 austin
3 hiro
4 Djodref
5 mementoss
6 kushm4sta
7 hopeless1der
8 thrawn2112
kush lets discuss da0
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On October 18 2012 01:18 Mementoss wrote:
Too many people have austin high on there list without explaining it, and no one has commented on my austin case except kush who just said:
austin case on mmt >>>> mmt case on austin
we need lists from austin, kush, hiro,da0d asap.
here are some words about da0 austin and hiro
+ Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 15:13 thrawn2112 wrote:There's a lot in the tone and motive of da0's posts that make me think he is scum, but I'm having a hard time differentiating that from what might just be language barrier problems, or general first time noobishness. Here are some examples. They include just general weirdness, hints of insincerity, and chiming in with agreement whenever people defend him. + Show Spoiler +On October 10 2012 13:24 da0ud wrote:
Hi again guys !
Happy to be here with ya all !
I am french leaving in HK and pretty bored at work currently so this game will have my full attention. This is my first MAFIA game on a chat thread, but I have played a lot with real friends in real life. So it should be pretty cool.
One first guess on the voting system is that people who are already given a BYE from first round are at a disadvantage (cause they have one less chance to be out) and on top of that they are higher seeded hence at a second disadvantage in case of 0-0 tie. Pretty unfair isn't it.
I guess it must have been a master plan from the Alien Invaders who put themselves all as the lowest seeded people. I would put focus on eliminating players number 10, 11 and 12 this round if possible.
What do you guys think ?
At least i am trying to put a lead on who is what....
Daoud. On October 11 2012 12:53 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 08:21 austinmcc wrote:On October 11 2012 08:12 kushm4sta wrote:
Thrawn did you read my point about how it's a scum mentality to say that byes are at a "disadvantage"?
vote daoud IMO!
I really dont want to overrule other people's votes by voting more than once. I also do not want to get lynched, and I am town. I view starting one step closer to lynch as a "disadvantage." Yes, it's kind of weird phrasing, but townies don't want to get lynched either. I don't read that as really pointing one way or the other, whereas I read his comment about wanting to lynch seeds 10, 11, and 12 because they might have rigged the bracket that we have been told by mods was random as a townie thing. It shows...unhealthy paranoia about things that cannot be true? Like +1 On October 11 2012 14:38 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:14 kushm4sta wrote:@daoud On October 11 2012 12:48 da0ud wrote:
Thank you, you are the only one i think who understood really what I meant. I hope you are not using me.
so lol. Clarify how he can be using you? Well, as he was the only one really supporting me, he could easily get my trust and getting me to follow his lead on who to vote against, etc. If he was mafia, then that would be another bullet for the mafia team (ie : getting a townie to follow their voting pattern). Maybe what i say doesn't make sense, but : * Let say we are 9 townies, 3 mafia. * One of the mafia supports the "weird" guy (who is the only one who reads the theme of the game :D) * Let's assume this guy is now 40% following the conviction of the manipulator. * Town is now made of 3.4 mafia vs 8.6 townies, and the plague is spreading. But I am not that dumb (or am I ?), I'll make decisions by myself. On October 14 2012 22:26 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:51 kushm4sta wrote:On October 11 2012 14:38 da0ud wrote:
* Let say we are 9 townies, 3 mafia.
* One of the mafia supports the "weird" guy (who is the only one who reads the theme of the game :D)
* Let's assume this guy is now 40% following the conviction of the manipulator.
* Town is now made of 3.4 mafia vs 8.6 townies, and the plague is spreading.
This is first time scum? Yeah math can be an indication of scum wanting to appear active, but keep in mind this was an explanation that I requested. I don't think first time scum would try to fake this level of newbie paranoia. On October 11 2012 15:14 da0ud wrote:
Out of topic question : are you all in bed ?
I will be super not busy for the next 4hrs. Please ALL wake up !!
Look how eager he is to interact. As scum I would think he'd be more afraid. Haha. The alien invaders "joke" is just..... idk. Later on he said it was an attempt to get discussion moving but I do not see how he could expect anyone to take that idea seriously. Then he talks about "mini scum"..... just wtf once again. Da0 what were you talking about with mini scum? Another point against him is that he laid down 9 votes on sandroba. That's already been addressed by people on both sides of the da0 debate but it still stands as a fact. He talked about his vote for sand and here was my initial take on his post: + Show Spoiler +On October 14 2012 16:51 thrawn2112 wrote:yeah the bolded part just screams noob mafia Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 15:58 da0ud wrote:
Sorry just caught up on the chat and am currently hiking close to china border so poor network.
One first thing on my vote against San is at the time as default choice between two people I found scummy.
I found more content on sand than on the lurker ON. And at the time I put my votes there was already 11 votes on san. I was following the crowd.
Overnight the defense of Sand got pretty intense and sure would I have shifted my votes towards ON, not that it would have made a difference anyway.
Even if it is not confirmed I am fairly sure Sand is town cause he put his votes on ON to go to the final which would not make sense for a scum to push another scum to face him in finals.
At this stage I am pretty sure as well mementoss is scum. I already put it as second scum read from the round of 4 but now put him as top read. Ok you voted for sandroba because: "One first thing on my vote against San is at the time as default choice between two people I found scummy." but here are the most recent cases of you talking about either of them: Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 11:21 da0ud wrote:
ON moves on then not then again.
Now I am pretty sure at least one town is in the finals. Let's hope there are not two of them and we find the scummy one Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 11:18 da0ud wrote:
I see as well that Sand voted 7 times against ON to make him move on, when himself was already doomed over Djo.
Hence ON and Sand cannot both be scums. It is actually a good result to have Sand vs Hopeless So please show me where you found ON scummy. In fact it seems like you weren't "thinking" ON was scum... your reason for voting him was always policy related: Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 11:03 da0ud wrote:
I wanted ON over Hopeless because of ON inactivity and actually ON has posted a lot of good things and but effort in his defense. There is more content to be expected from him to help us get a better read on him in the future.
I do want Sand > Djo which is the case right now. From what i said earlier I dont think either that Djo and Hopeless can both be mafia, hence at least we are saving one valuable town with constructive agrumentation. Oh and I'm not really convinced about memtoss.... I don't buy that he was bussing ON. His votes for ON came at a time when a bus would have been extremely stupid or extremely clever and I doubt he's capable of either. I think he was the first person to actually vote ON. Maybe a scum memtoss would have figured that sand is getting lynched no matter what but I doubt he'd have taken that risk. Also, he was who Sandroba most wanted us to kill, and from I can tell it's the same deal with ET. Both of those guys are dead. Sandroba's lst words about da0 were: Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote:
Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over. The only reason why I think he could be town is because his scumhunting posts show a lot of townie paranoia. Like a lot. And this being his first game that would make sense for him to be overly paranoid. And he has shown pretty consistent suspicion of memtoss but eh, scum or town would do that. So for now he's gonna stay at number 3 spot,on my list and will possibly move up higher because I'm not confident that he's scum but there is so much against him (his posts seem forced, he was sandroba's and et's lynch choice, he voted 9 for sandroba)that it'd be dumb to let it slide. Also I think a do0 flip would be extremely useful. As for austin.... bleh. I've played 1 game with him (town austin) and I've obsed a couple of his town games and he just seemed so much more straightforward and useful than he's being in this game. His word count is still really high but his post just seem way fluffier than what I'd come to expect from him. Also I still can't get over the vote sharing thing from D1. I can not understand how any town player would do that.... first of all that means that you don't trust your own judgement which I don't think that'd be the case with a town austin, and it also means that you have almost confirmed town reads in the people you're giving the votes to. He did it on D1... could he really have been so sure that kush and I were town at that point? Also, at the time he made the offer I believe kush was strongly in favor of lynching sandroba, and I was on the fence but I'd been the main person pushing sand's case all game. I am not convinced that town austin would have shared votes like that. As for hiro, he got the 2 spot on my list basically because of process of elimination. I don't have the slightest town read on him, nor do I have the slightest scum read. That is very worrying and in the past when there's a player that I'm not really concerned with because they are off the radar, big surprise they end up being scum. I'll look through his filter next. On October 16 2012 19:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
how exactly is it different? only thing I can think of is that I'm somewhat trollish this game.... not really sure why I'm being like that but it could be due to... to quote nony... "substances that we'll collectively call alcohol"
and yeah I'm actually in agreement with you about daoud. I'm also not convinced about memtoss. Lately I've been wading through the filters of hopeless/austin. Austin's play has just been weird compared to his normal meta. I'm used to seeing him writing these exhaustive walls of analysis where he details his exact reads on people... this game he's just been doing stranger stuff and he seems more willing to go into lurk mode if you don't call him out
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kush why is djo #2 for you
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Austin what do you think about da0? He qualifies for a lot of the same nk points you made about mementoss although he's way more in the spotlight.
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EPT
