EPTGSL Open Mini Mafia II - Page 2
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 28 2012 12:16 thrawn2112 wrote: if you're still up please say who you do prefer as a vote, we're pretty damn close to deadline already Off the top of my head, nobody's sticking out as someone I really want to vote. I'd like to see ShiaoPi answer the questions the were addressed to him a while back, as well as give his thoughts on Ottox. I want to look over you and phagga again. Ottox's defense was so not-a-defense that it felt townie to me. Again, I'd actually like to know what people think about his play after getting a vote(s) and how they read it. Phagga voted shortly after myself, but you came in after a while. I don't like you voting even though you yourself thought it was more of deflection than defense. I actually really don't think I like that, you get a close read! | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Try and throw out his other posts and other reads, just look at that in the context of where the thread is (Votes on Ottox, cases on Ottox, etc.) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Rereading all and I'll get some posts up. That timezone bit that you don't like I'm more null on. It's true that a bunch of timezone discussion won't really do anything, and the more I look back at it, the more that's not a point that could really start any discussion (which I was hoping it would). Timezones are just facts and it's not like scum was going to come out arguing that we should never find a common time to discuss things, so it wasn't going to filter out alignments at all. I kind of like his calling me out on the timezone bit being useless. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
What is your current read of Thrawn? What has led you to that read? Additionally, how do you read his vote on Ottox? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 28 2012 11:08 Sinensis wrote: Because his defense was "everyone else is playing bad, not just me." He feels if he is in the spotlight and being voted for, than anyone could be because his town play is at least as good as everyone else's; so he believes. This is a bad defense by him and he needs to do better, maybe not take personal offense when someone points out one of his mistakes. I understand why he was critical of your play SnB, you freaked him out with your rng suggestion, but I don't really understand why he voted for thrawn other than that thrawn is playing more aggressive than he is. Sinensis can you explain this a little further. It was an odd comment. Did you find his defense/believing he was being unfairly voted for townie? Scummy? How did it make you read his attackers? Do you think he actually took "personal offense"? If so, where? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
His inactivity is generally null for a game that's early and hasn't been inactive, but I don't love that he's constantly sniping about the game being slow and then not really trying to do anything about that. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2012 15:28 phagga wrote: Wow, 9 hours into the game and we don't even have 2 pages. I am against a random lynch because in an instant majority game it might shortcut the discussion and therefore won't be helpfull. Also, there is the trust issue. Sinensis, why dont you want the Boxers to claim? Also, where is Bluelightz? 4am has long past. On September 26 2012 17:38 phagga wrote: Don't be shy. If you're townie, there is nothing to fear. Just try not to clutter up the thread. We are off to a really slow start, something that can generate usefull discussion is always welcome. On September 26 2012 23:01 phagga wrote: I wrote pregame I would be inactive the first 9 hours due to sleep, which is pretty much how long I was inactive. I frequently point out people who are not active, you can find this in any of my older games. It's a habit I have developed to make people aware that someone has been inactive for a longer time. I also like it as a reminder when scumhunting to see if the person has had several periods of long inactivity and what that could mean in the context of the game/thread. On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Game is slow. Game is slow we need something to create discussion. I watch for inactives and point them out. Gets on Thrawn's case for not contributing. In all of that, phagga isn't doing an awful lot himself. I shared his feeligns that we needed something to create discussion, but had no idea how to get that started, so I can't really fault him for those posts. However, I don't actually see him hounding inactive players. I don't actually see him attempting to do too much. I hate this post: On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. We know phagga wants discussion. Wants the game to move. He's speaking with Bluelightz, who posts this: On September 28 2012 01:26 Bluelightz wrote: So, EVERYTHING Thrawn did is an action that supposedly makes him townier? and that was phagga's response. Effectively, phagga is just shutting down the chat with Bluelightz. I'm only speaking generally. I agree that thrawn isn't scummy, but I don't like your reason. I won't tell you WHY i don't like your reason. I won't explain MY reasons. I won't keep the analysis of Thrawn going at all. Just give some general statements and not offer my own specific thoughts. Phagga's unvote on Ottox ... doesn't do wonders for me either way. The reasoning behind his original vote was something I didn't express well but also didn't like. The unvote comes a looooooooong time after Ottox has started to look very town. And it doesn't come with anything else. No desire to seek another target, no nothing after that. Just "Okay, no Ottoxvote." | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'd really like to hear him explain how he feels about thrawn after he didn't do so earlier. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Thrawn On September 26 2012 23:04 thrawn2112 wrote: If someone hammers another player without warning then what is a legitimate response? What reasonable punishment could you put in place to stop people from doing it? I say it's not too big of a deal. If someone hammers a player then we can speculate as to the legitimacy of their motivations. minor town points. agree with it being not too big a deal. others may find this scummy though, since my comments were found scummy by some. On September 27 2012 21:40 thrawn2112 wrote: "just making a note of it" Wanna say anything further than that? null but I found it...interesting? that he keeps harping on this comment. Is it scum trying to figure out why Sinensis is making note of his play? Is it scum worried that Sinensis is onto thrawn/phagga distancing themselves? Or does he just feel that Sinensis is basically saying nothing, because making a note of something that happened is what everyone should be doing with everything that happens here. No read built off this post, but ... I made a note of it (sunglasses). On September 27 2012 23:43 thrawn2112 wrote: You say there's not enough in my posts that are scum motivated for you to vote for me, so obviously you must think some things look scum motivated. What looks scummy? again we have concerns over someone finding him scummy maybe. Again, it's not like you can build a read out of it. On September 28 2012 06:46 thrawn2112 wrote: ##Vote Ottoxlol Alright otto that is 3 votes against you. You've been accused of giving a bad defense and it was, it was more of a deflection than a defense. You've also been accused of not giving your full read on snb earlier and that was also true. So if snb is your top scumread can you give all the reasons why, and if he's not your top read / you're just waiting on his response or whatever, then who else looks scummy and why? This is where things start to turn on me with Thrawn. Drops a nice vote in the middle of the pack. Drops it a ways into Ottox's "defense." To me, Ottox feels pretty darn towny at this point because of the way he's just...not been defending himself and not being worried at all. But Thrawn votes here with very little reasoning, and absolutely no discussion of why Ottox is scummy. Look at his comments:
Where is the reason for the VOTE? Where is the reason Ottox is SCUMMY? X not giving a full read on Y isn't a reason to vote for X. Ottox's odd defense was one of the most towny things out there the more it continued, so why is Thrawn harping on that as well, and is that his reason for voting? BOO AT THIS VOTE. BOO AT THIS POST. Looks to me like joining a lynch in the middle with no real reasoning, just pushing a mislynch. Thrawn CONTINUES to harp at ottox after this. The whole exchange feels stupid, because again, I've got Ottox looking very towny in how he's responding to pressure. But thrawn keeps pumping him. Look at page 9 of the game, too many little posts to link here. So at this point, here's what I'm seeing.
After that, Ottox comes back with a vote on Thrawn. I'm more mixed here: Specifically, look at Ottox's vote post where he votes Thrawn and Thrawn's response. Those I'll include here. On September 28 2012 08:34 Ottoxlol wrote: @SnB then I don't understand random lynch at all. I thought it is like we go to a random website roll 1-8 then put our votes in-> ofc scum wont do it properly so there is much less chance to lynch them My case on thrawn: His response: I gave my full read on SnB, explained why I did not vote at the moment, the first bolded part is where he lies about it, the second and third he wrote in the same post! Don't let him get away with this please ##Vote thrawn2112 I don't see thrawn lying really, I don't think Ottox did a great job of laying out a clear read on SnB, but I also don't see why thrawn is hounding him about it. Thrawn ... hmmm. I can't tell if he's really fighting the vote or not. If he's actually getting worked up about Ottox's vote, then I see that as scummy, because the vote and reasoning feel weak, and a strong response to a weak vote makes me think scum is worried about picking up random votes. I'd like outside thoughts here, concerning Thrawn's reaction to Ottox's vote: On September 28 2012 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote: ottoxlol: You say I lied, with the lie being that I said you wouldn't give your full read on snb. Yes you have given your read, but the question originally proposed to you was about where your vote was going to go, and you specifically declined answering that question. Whether or not you want to vote for snb is a very big part of what I look at when trying to determine how genuine your read on snb is. So your original problems with snb's suggestion were that you couldn't see how it could be fairly done as far as actual logistics goes? You didn't say anything like that at all when you said you first said you didn't like the idea. On September 28 2012 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote: otto you keep saying that I'm lying and you're acting like you have no clue why my accusations are being made, and I think whether you're town or mafia you actually do know why. I feel like most of your defenses thus far have been deflections or omgusing Initially it struck me as a strong response. On reread it doesn't really. On September 28 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote: There's a distinction between making a bad defense and making a bad defense by deflecting... I'd say deflecting is scummy. And sorry I dont know what you mean by "close read." This post bugs me for the same reason...phagga's post about thrawn not looking scummy bugged me. He gives a conclusion, but no real reasoning, and it doesn't necessarily match up with earlier statements. I mention that I dislike thrawn's votepost. I mention that I dislike the deflection/defense big seemingly being the reason for a vote (I didn't realize how little reasoning there was the vote last night off the top of my head Thrawn's response is that There's a distinction between making a bad defense and making a bad defense by deflecting... I'd say deflecting is scummy. Sinensis, in his vote post, gave a longer explanation of why deflecting can be scummy. Thrawn gives none. He doesn't note that he never called it scummy in his vote post. He doesn't explain why it's scummy. He doesn't explain what the distinction IS between a bad defense and deflecting. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:52 ShiaoPi wrote: @phagga: + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken. Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself. But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Looks like pounding on thrawn to me. Also regarding ottox, you mention him as bluelightz starts pressuring him. Sleepy as fuck now, so I am off to bed. I would really like you guys to considerate a lynch on phagga, but if you do not like to do it, at least hammer someone, no lynch would be just awful. night! You guys may not like association talk, but I'll note that if thrawn flips scum then Phagga is my #1 read. Sinensis picked up on their banter before, phagga's townread on thrawn with no reasoning felt off to me, and then he drops in with a case once thrawn starts to be a pretty clear favorite (although so did 1/3 of the game). My gut just lumps those two together as scum, although I guess we'll see what thrawn flips. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:42 austinmcc wrote: snb, could you give some thoughts on phagga? thrawn, when you return, could you please give your thoughts on phagga amongst whatever else you cover? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
iamperfection, two questions. (1) Have you played any games as scum, and if so, which (I'm so lazy)? (2) How do you read shiaopi right now, or...general thoughts on shiaopi? (I'll note that thrawn has not played any scum games, went back to look but he's always rolled town). On September 28 2012 23:03 Bluelightz wrote: I meant that, from a scum perspective, yes scum would defend his or herself, but not in the way he is defending: being active and open. thrawn continues to propose alternative lynches, which in a way provide information to the discussion, and continues to defend himself actively. Also, I don't think all his defenses/alternative lynch proposals are from collaborations (with scumbuddies), but independent work. Given everything that's been written about thrawn in the last couple pages, could you look over them and give like...the 2 points on thrawn you agree with most and the 2 you disagree with most? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Could you discuss your earlier read on thrawn, before your last two large posts on him? I see: On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Which seems to be negative (echoing others, not contributing) On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken. Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself. But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? posts "don't improve" --> implying they're bad or scummy? Accusing thrawn of "contradicting himself" On September 28 2012 00:33 phagga wrote: @thrawn, the problem with your analysis of a possible connection of sinensis and s&b is that you are making a lot of assumptions. It's not wrong to do that, but it's just quite a stretch because we do not have that much info available yet. This post doesn't really point towards a scummy OR a town read. Those posts seem to indicate that you're viewing thrawn in a scummy light, or at the very least that you have no reason to view him in a townie light, since you've been critical of his play. But then when Bluelightz advocates not lynching thrawn, you state this: On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. Why did you not find thrawn scummy? What happened exactly that made you go from thrawn not looking scummy to you basically writing a case on him and threatening a vote? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 29 2012 04:46 phagga wrote: I really don't see the logic behind all of this. What you are saying is that scum is already so desperate that they are not simply bussing each other, but even calling the deciding vote! And this in a game where it is absolutely unnecessary to do something like this on D1 because of the instant majority? I'm not saying its impossible, but that would be a really desperate plan and should at least seem unlikely. Also, I never had a townread on thrawn. I said that I don't think he is scummy. Stop making up facts. Do you think my points I raise on thrawn are bad? if so, tell me why. What I'm saying is that you seem quite focused on thrawn at points - + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2012 17:38 phagga wrote: Don't be shy. If you're townie, there is nothing to fear. Just try not to clutter up the thread. We are off to a really slow start, something that can generate usefull discussion is always welcome. Coaching thrawn early on On September 28 2012 00:33 phagga wrote: @thrawn, the problem with your analysis of a possible connection of sinensis and s&b is that you are making a lot of assumptions. It's not wrong to do that, but it's just quite a stretch because we do not have that much info available yet. Mild coaching later on, in the middle of a larger post where you've got questions or reads on other players, but just offer thrawn what feels like a little advice. "it's not wrong to do that" implies some coaching. On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. Oh no, I wasn't talking about thrawn. But since you bring him up, vague thought with no reasoning given. On September 29 2012 01:31 phagga wrote: ?? Austin has not voted thrawn? Can you please point out the post? Watching for votes on thrawn (Probably nothing, because everyone should have checked this, but I've seen scum get partially-caught because they were hyper-aware of votes on each other) I'm not accusing you of bussing him all game, I'm saying that there are some interactions between the two of you (Sinensis noticed) that make me go "Hmmmm." Nobody should get magical credit for being the deciding vote here, or making a case this late. It seems pretty clear that one of you is getting lynched, probably him, and it's not like I'm not happy to drop the hammer on him if you don't. I just don't go "I'm about to vote thrawn guys, I'm about to do it" to make sure everyone knows I'm happy voting thrawn. It would be unlikely if out of the blue you chose thrawn to start attacking, tunneling, and driving a lynch on, and the two of you ended up scumbuddies. It wouldn't be be nearly as surprising if you're under a little heat, he's under heat, and you decide you need to vote him and draw up a case on him so you can get try and look a little better. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 29 2012 05:01 thrawn2112 wrote: Alright, I've just been able to read the last few pages of the thread and there are several huge walls of text about me. I don't think I'm gogin to be able to respond to them all adequately before I get hammered so I'm just going to give some quick reads for yall to look over after my flip. So I'm being mislynched which causes me to be suspicious of each of the people who have voted/talked about me. For iamp, his original vote was not based on very much and I have know way of knowing how honestly he felt about that first vote. Otto's vote I am not suspicious of,thinking about it now I think it's likely his vote came as a result of the two of us getting into a heated argument and not really feeling that the other person was listening to the argumentts we presented. Sinensis I am still suspicious of. Overall I've had a scummy read on him for a lot of the game and I don't even think he cared what I was saying in my defense, he was just brushing it aside. for phagga, he has been off my radar for a lot of the game other than our argument early on and his vote seemed to be a little out of the blue and it was at a perfect time for mafia to start putting pressure on their mislynch bandwagon. Also there is bl, who has sorta been defending me all game but not really going into too much detail about what exactly I've posted so I also think you should look at him. glhf No suspicions on me? If phagga has been off your radar much of the game, could you give him a quick peek and a more robust read? For time's sake, cases on phagga can be found: here for Bluelightz, here for ShiaoPi | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 29 2012 05:10 thrawn2112 wrote: which of the walls of text shall I respond to? who is still in the thread? rawr | ||
| ||
