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On October 12 2012 13:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh right, your "meta" read on marv's scum play. Pull the other one Kei.
You're just fearmongering because you were wrong. I'm 99.9% sure that Kush was actually town. Using a combination of kush's own meta (scum kush would have FLIPPED-THE-FUCK-OUT), AND marv's (which is relevent, cause you know, marv actually flipped scum. Seriously go look through his games, he has no precedent for hard defending a scumbuddy who is a liability to him winning.)
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On October 12 2012 14:56 DarthPunk wrote:
Firstly. Calm the fuck down. Secondly. That is a weird assumption to make. It assumes there is only 1kp. It assumes that scum have a roleblocker.
The fact is you said they didn't roleblock MMtoss and you have no way of knowing if they did/didn't or could/couldn't
It gives the impression of additional information.
First, you're jumping on something that it was very obvious what he meant. Second, VE ALREADY CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN ROLEBLOCKED ON NIGHT 1. And Mementoss claimed to be roleblocked on...night 3? Whatever the night was that he claimed watcher. So of course he assumes the scum has a roleblocker.
His point is perfectly valid if he's a townie. Scum would have known that he wasn't lying about being rolecop, and would have known that Mementoss wasn't lying about being watcher, so they could have RB'd Mementoss and got a basically guaranteed kill on the claimed Cop.
However, if one or VE or Mementoss are scum, though, then that starts breaking down, obviously.
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On October 12 2012 15:07 Coagulation wrote:
lol dp confirmed himself town with his lack of ability to follow the most barest and basic scum capabilities in thread.
So...you're trying to say you confirmed yourself as town? :o
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On October 12 2012 15:15 DarthPunk wrote:
And why is it so obvious if it rely's on VE being town when one of the points in your case against me was thinking VE was town?
Then you come at me again for thinking that is based on him NOT being Town.
I wasn't calling you scum. I saying that you calling the VE thing a "scum slip" was absolutely retarded.
In fact, now that you bring it up, you were SO FUCKING SURE that VE was a cop. How is your first thought when you see VE says that suddenly "WOW he fucking scumslipped!". If you 'thought' he was town, you should have been thinking about what he said from a town perspective, in which case it should have made 100% sense to you what he was trying to say.
NOW I'm calling you scum. You can't even keep your story straight.
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I actually agree with BC on this point.
If VE was town role cop, his check makes no sense. For someone who keeps saying "I'm trying to hunt scum!", his check certainly doesn't show it. But his attitude and reaction to BC calling him out just doesn't FEEL townie.
There's just too many little "convenient" things that add up to VE being scum.
1) Red check on someone who flipped town
2) Blue check on MMToss, who shouldn't have even been checked
3) Through 4 nights, there have only been 2 roleblocks, on GUESS WHO. VE and MMToss
4) Neither VE nor MMToss were shot after their claims. Nor were either RB'd last night. Instead, BKE who had done nothing besides "be a vet with 0 thread presence" and the vig were killed, and then no one last night.
None of those things individually is enough to make VE scum. But together, I'm pretty convinced.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
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On October 13 2012 12:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Srs. Guys I'm a Private Investigator. No one has counterclaimed, think this through.
I'm not scum. And I DO want to win. Please don't lynch me.
I actually thought lack of a counterclaim was enough to keep you alive.
Then someone pointed out that we don't even know that Private Investigator is a town role. I can certainly see the benefit of scum having a Role Cop. Ah, the joys of a closed setup?
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If they knew you were a Role Cop since night 1, and you're a Vet, then why the fuck are you still alive.
You don't make any sense.
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EBWOP: Still alive AND still getting checks.
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On a scale of 1-CharlieSheen, how high are you?
Because that's one of the the most ass-backwards things I've ever heard in a mafia game.
If scum finds a town rolecop on night 1, *AND* that person is a vet, you don't leave him alive until day 5. Period.
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Exactly. And that's part of what makes me more suspicious of you.
Scum were in a bad spot after losing 2 people for "free" on consecutive games from a mechanic they couldn't control. So what do scum in a situation that's looking hopeless?
Normally, I would probably trust your claim (even though this speculation you're doing is nonsense...Framer, Flip Protection, and/or RB+RoleCop combo?), but I feel like scum trying to pull a rabbit out of their hat with some bogus claims is definitely a possibility when otherwise it would just be ludicrous.
(inb4 "OMG THATS WIFOM")
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Because you would have stopped them?
LOL
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You know marv as well as I do, if not better. You know damn well that you couldn't have stopped a pissed off marv doing anything that he pleased, and the only thing that would have stopped him is DocH coming in and warning or modkilling him.
Furthermore, you also know as well as I do, that their goal was to shit up the thread. And everyone in their right mind did the correct thing by completely ignoring them. But you've making it out as if they were playing against their wincon, when they definitely were not. They were doing everything in their power to keep the discussion on themselves, or at the very least, not give away their teamates. Maybe it was dickish, but it certainly wasn't "wrong".
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On October 13 2012 13:25 Coagulation wrote:
If ve was scum instead of saying he checked toss he woulda just said he got roleblocked and this all wouldnt have happened.. just saying.
So...who was roleblocked last night then? If you believe that VE is town, then he wouldn't have lied about being roleblocked night 1, right? So we "know" there is a roleblocker, but neither of the claimed blues were blocked, nor was anyone else apparently?
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On October 13 2012 13:36 Coagulation wrote:
Kreb is roleblocker and he didnt send in the action.
Matt is the roleblocker and he didn't send in the action! No, wait...Z-Bo is roleblocker and didn't send in the action! OR coag is the roleblocker and didn't send in the action!
You realize how stupid that argument is, right?
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Also, there's still a "Detective" role in the role list.
So, VE, since you seem to want to play the speculation game, I'll put on my tinfoil hat and tell you what my take on the current events is:
First, Detective is a traditional town alignment cop. Maybe had some weird mechanics before the clues thing got taken out to give it some spice, but at this point its just cop.
Second, Private Investigator, aka Role Cop, was given to mafia to combat the paramedics. Obviously it didn't work, but it makes sense that they would be given a way to find the role that 100% hard-counters mafia with nothing they can really do about it.
Now, with those things in mind, we know that there were 2 KP less last night than expected. So...why? Well, we can't possibly know. BUT:
On October 12 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay
Tinfoil hat time.
Scum had to withhold kills tonight because they reversed the flip of their coroner. Discuss.
You already laid the groundwork down for why. What townie in their right mind's first thought when they don't see any nightkills is "Yesterday, during the day, scum traded in their KP for the night to change Kush's flip!". What game has that EVER been an option? If you can link me to one, I'll shut-up.
But, would it be that far-fetched that scum could trade in their KP for an action during the NEXT day? I find it much, much more likely that an ability like that would be proactive, rather than reactive (ie, you have to use it before the flip, not after).
And then, you say this:
On October 13 2012 12:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you have to lynch me then fine - I can see not coming back from this.
But without their Coroner, they're going to watch me flip exactly what I claimed.
*sly grin*
Check.
So, there was less KP than expected. Then you laid the groundwork for a flip-change mechanic.
Now, lets assume for a minute that you are scum. You used the fake kush red check to get yourself lynched today (you seem to be trying REALLY hard today to get lynched). And, since you seem to be so sure that there's a flip-change mechanic, lets just assume that there is. So, you sacrificed KP last night to change the flip on YOUR lynch today. Not kush's.
Now, who benefits from you flipping Private Investigator? Mementoss and coag, who you claim to have green checks on.
So:
VisceraEyes, Mementoss, coagulation
If that's the case, then I almost certainly believe that BC is actually third party, and not a vet. All 3 of them have been pushing his lynch at various times.
God damn, this game is easy.
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On October 13 2012 14:10 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:06 Coagulation wrote:
the only question that is worth answering.
ve checking toss is piss poor town play Haha you are mr. arrogant no.2 keirathi, that's actually pretty interesting. Let's add BC instead of coag though. The only reason we *know BC is 3rd party is because of mementoss, and I'm getting a townie feel from coag. And I do agree, it does look like VE is trying to get lynched. BC also sounds strangely sure that VE's night choice was a scumslip/mistake whatever. Hmmmm... *puts conspiracy goggles on
Yea, maybe BC instead of coag. If I put much stock into my speculation, though, its just too damn convenient that VE flipping PI "100% confirms" 2 people as town.
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I know I was just playing conspiracy theorist, but damnit I can't convince myself that I'm not right.
I really believe that scum would feel like they were in a rough spot after losing marv and Hapa/Node on days 2 and 3 due to a mechanic that they had absolutely zero control over. And, if they felt like they were behind, a gambit could be just the thing they needed to pull out the win.
Also, DocH is one of the only hosts who I could believe would intentionally make a game "Vets" vs "Non-Vets" (aka newbs).
There are just too many little coincidences here.
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On October 13 2012 15:03 Coagulation wrote:
if ve was scum he would of faked a check on someone more experienced and a bigger threat than kush. lets face it scum would never trade ve for kush. it would have been a fake check on someone who was pro town and a hard lynch plus deadly scum hunter not kush. kush was regarded as scummy by the entire thread. he would be an easy mislynch. theres no incentive to fake the check on him at all.
If you want to humor me even a little bit, then I'll play Devil's Advocate:
First off, looking at this game after night 3, who that is (was) still alive would have been a threat to them?
Secondly, kush was the perfect person to use the "fake check" against. For one, it makes sense for a cop to have checked him. Also, after VE flipped town PI, no one would have questioned that there was a framer and we just got fucked by night actions.
Finally, remember that, assuming my version of events is correct (yea, I know, huge assumption), that it wouldn't have worked at ALL had the townie not been lynched. If, say, VE came in claiming a red check on, say risk or slOosh or Mementoss, people would have been more likely to question VE. The fact that 99% of the thread thought kush was scummy to begin already meant people were more willing to hop on, and only question VE after the fact. He would have been 100% the person to use it on.
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Z-Bo:
Yes, that is the problem. If they saved KP to change the flip today, it probably doesn't matter who we lynch.
Which is unfortunate, because it means there's no way to confirm my theory without 2 flips in a row.
And even I'm not sure enough of myself to guarantee 2 flips in a row.
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EBWOP: What I mean by "It probably doesn't matter who we lynch" is that they probably would just control the color of whoever flipped. If VE was scum, he would flip Private Investigator, and if Mementoss was scum and we lynched him he would flip Medical Examiner.
Basically, even if I am right, I don't suspect there's anything town can/will do about it.
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EPT
