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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote marvellosity | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 03 2012 20:21 kushm4sta wrote: So why did annul say we win if he dies? I think he felt like a lot of scum had outed themselves interacting with him. On October 03 2012 20:22 Z-BosoN wrote: [b]##Vote marvellosity[b] I don't get the nks though. Both kj and anul look like vig shots. I think mafia got really unlucky. I agree with Kreb here, both about the most likely scenario, as well as the fact that speculating too much about it is effort better spent elsewhere. Now to find out where it can be better spent... I feel we can safely assume marv will flip scum, so I'll be looking at interactions between him and other players. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 03 2012 23:38 Z-BosoN wrote: So austin Is pretty much claiming veteran? On October 03 2012 23:18 austinmcc wrote: Okay I was definitely hit last night. Thanks for the prot. He says he was protected. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I could definitely see VE being scum. His unfortunate scumhunting is a big piece of the puzzle, but his interaction with annul keeps nagging at me. On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote: That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! On October 03 2012 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote: What's your point? Did I ever say it was a skill you exclusively possess as scum? I didn't think I did :/ It took me a while to figure out why I was so annoyed by these posts, but I think I've figured it out. VE first emphasizes that as scum annul can become "scary" (which I assume means that he can appear to become a good contributor, though VE never actually says how annul becomes "scary"), but leaves out the fact that he might do the same exact thing as town. It doesn't feel like VE is trying to inform the town of annul's apparent meta, as much as emphasize the scummy aspects of annul's meta and attribute it entirely to scum-annul. It would feel the same way if marv came in and said that I can be incredibly wishy-washy as scum. He's emphasized in previous games that I am the master of wishy-washiness regardless of alignment (though I've only ever been scum once, for little over a day). If he were to come into this game and try to convince everyone that I'm only wishy-washy when I'm scum, then I would be incredibly suspicious of him (In fact, I believe that's part of why he avoided talking about me at all despite my case being in the same post as the Node one). In VE's case, it looks like he tried to do a similar thing, and then when annul called him out on it he tried to minimize the effect. Why say that scum-annul can be "scary" if town-annul can also be "scary" unless you're trying to make vigis take the shot without a proper reason? It seems like a pretty scummy interaction from VE. I'd really like to hear thoughts from others, as this is the first thing I feel pretty confident about this game. Finally, I'm still waiting on input from mementoss... I know that 15 pages is a lot to go through, but I'm not going to put him aside just because one of the people who was calling him out is going to flip scum. There are other lurkers, but he's promised more contributions twice now, and we've seen nothing from it. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Incoming wall of text response... | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 04 2012 02:28 ShiaoPi wrote: okay I am heading to bed now, sharing this before I do so: mkfuba07: First thing that struck me was the timing of the early game movements fuba did with marv. This + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:19 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm back from class and should be here until the lynch. Like marv I may have to reconsider KJ. If he's bound to give himself away with his actions pretty quickly, then I can wait it out. I never found his "spy slip" scummy, just his interaction with Kei where he seemed to be implying that Kei was scummy, only to follow it up by saying he didn't say that. It could be considered as an accusation and distancing, but it could just be statement of facts as he saw them. My problem is that I'm not sure about voting for kush or shady. I'm not a fan of how either of them are playing, but I don't necessarily get scum from them. Shady is being incredibly strange with his absence, but that's not in keeping with either his town or scum metas. I didn't like Kush's policy lynch because "shady was mean to me", but that also doesn't tell me anything about his alignment. I'm going to take a look at austin. I'll also probably think a bit about mementoss, just 'cause. On October 02 2012 07:13 marvellosity wrote: Your point on austin is way better though, BC There are a couple of things about austin: - he gives way too much thought and time to setup speculation and shenannies and can go off on tangents. So with that alone I wouldn't find him banging on about spy that relevant, except for two things (which you mention) - the fact that it specifies pretty damn clearly in the OP that all available role names are known to us - that's all he's talked about having been absent for a long time. If you're gonna derp around talking about setup and spy lololol you'd imagine you'd at least fucking read the setup first. Gonna give his filter another look. Anyway I'm gonna unvote kj for now ##unvote Only half an hour passes and fuba is here: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:46 mkfuba07 wrote: What bothers me most about austin is what's already been said: he apologizes for his absence, and then follows it up by only mentioning the spy-slip. Is that really all there is to talk about right now? His first post of the game also bothers me. You'd think that since it was such a "fun night" he would have a lot to comment on, but for over 24 hours all he mentions is how something kush has said isn't as scummy as some people apparently find it. After that he gets trapped in spy-slip land, when that issue can be resolved by reading the OP. He's posted a lot (comparatively) and yet has said little except that he didn't find kush too scummy hours ago. Not sure if scummy or just busy+confused... While his vote comes later at around 8:30 timestamp, keep this in mind for the bigger picture. Now to his voting behaviour closer to lynch + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 12:33 mkfuba07 wrote: ##Unvote Austin's posts since returning have made me throw that vote out the window. As for Node's posting frequency, I don't see that as much different than his behavior in DN mafia... Does he normally contribute more? As for his content, I see the slight "lie" but I can see no reason to intentionally "lie" like that as scum. What would he gain? Of the two on the block right now, I'd rather vote for Shady. As I said before, I'm not naturally inclined to vote for him D1, but I don't want to vote for someone who I haven't seen anything scummy from. While I didn't see his excuse for trolling as terribly scummy, and I believe his absence could be explained somehow, the fact that he hasn't done it or actively participated in any way since his last post makes me want him gone. ##Vote Shady Sands He now is content with a shady lynch before switching it up again after half an hour + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 13:05 mkfuba07 wrote: Ugh, this is driving me crazy. I'm not a huge fan of any of the possibilities... I'm going to change my vote again. If we can get a better replacement for Shady I think keeping him in is going to be better than keeping Node in. I got completely screwed in DN Mafia because it was down to Node, myself, another pretty inactive player, and scum marv, and there was no discussion. I don't want to be in that situation again. Not sure if this will do anything, but: ##Unvote ##Vote Node Now why the hell does he bank on a modkill (that like in 99% of the cases does not come) and tries to lynch node again? Feels a lot like confusing town and disrupting us in the crucial timeperiod around lynch. After the lynch he gets asked about an update on Node and he gives out this: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 06:25 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still feeling really stupid for not being able to understand what's so scummy about Node's defense of Shady. There were plenty of good players voting for Node, and as town OR scum I don't see them voting for someone for stupid reasons. Despite what you've said before, I have been reading the thread. My reading comprehension being as crappy as it is, I can't pinpoint what makes his defense scummy. Did scum Node gain something from lying in his defense of Shady? Or was it just that he appeared to not be reading the thread, and is trying to participate with a minimum of effort/gaining some town-cred for defending town-Shady? Or something else entirely that I haven't considered because I'm bad at this game? ...(checking through filters)... ...And now, having more closely checked the the timestamps, which I incorrectly read last time, Node's jumped up quite a bit in scumminess. When I looked the first time, I missed the fact that the two posts (shady's last post where he actually made a read at all, and Node's defense) were on different days. I thought Node's happened within hours of Shady's FoS on kush, so I didn't really see it as too absurd for him to say that Shady had been pushing targets. I think I now understand why the defense was scummy (and I feel like a dumbass for not being able to read). Shady did nothing to warrant defending him, and the fact that Node defended him, with evidence that was the opposite of the truth, is strange. The fact that Node seemed to have reasons to find Shady town when the evidence he provides is contrived makes me think that he had another reason to believe Shady to be town that he didn't want to mention. Thus, Node seems scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels right to me. Basically you can sum it up as "I dunno, he seems scummy" It's a great wall of fluff besides the timestamp remark. Keeps pushing node and throws annul into the mix as scum as well for being against the node lynch. Now after the nightphase resolves and marv is as good as confirmed scum through his reactions he goes after VE. While I can understand it (having made suspicions on VE as well) it feels quite sudden. No mentions of VE earlier and no more mentioning of Node. He also occasionally calls mementoss out (which is pretty easy to do anyway). Summarizing: I think there is a decent chance for fuba to flip scum, reasoning: fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, continued to try to push for Node but as soon as marv gets outed he switches onto VE with no more mentioning of Node, whom he previously had targeted quite extensively. What happened to your Node read fuba? On another note, BKE, what have you been doing all game long? Who is your highest read besides the no-brainer vote on marv? For my early game activity, I state clearly that I'm going to essentially do the same thing as marv (bolded it for emphasis), and remove my vote from KJ. Here I'll be completely honest and say that when someone else does something I was about to do, I certainly feel a bit more confident about it. My apparently sheeping of marv is something that has popped up in my previous game, as well. I apparently put to much trust in him, which is something I should clearly stop doing. But yeah, me being buddy-buddy with marv is something that I believe mementoss can tell you isn't anything new. My thoughts regarding Shady at the time were: I don't really think his lurking is indicative of anything (it was off his town AND scum metas) but I wouldn't mind him being out of the game. Same for Node, in my experience, except his lurking is apparently an aspect of BOTH his town and scum metas. Keep in mind, I still didn't understand what made Node exceptionally scummy, and I'm still relatively unsure. So, I decided to first vote for the person that I didn't see a questionable wagon for. I felt more comfortable voting for Shady. After sitting there, thinking about it for apparently a half hour, I decided that I'd rather be stuck with Shady's replacement than Node. At the time, Shady really looked like he was going to be replaced, and I've seen some good stuff out of Thrawn2112. If you want to know why I didn't want to be around in lylo/mylo with Node, check out DN mafia. He apparently had the correct scumread the final day, but because he didn't post it until the final half hour or so we ended up losing. I'm not a fan of losing. As for my Node read, he was someone I was still unsure of. "The timestamp remark" was the centerpiece to everything that I said. I'm continuing to think of him, but I really wanted to see what the major proponents behind his lynch had to say. You say that I was targeting Node extensively, but I had the one unsure post AFTER the lynch failed that I felt contained the best reasoning for lynching him. I've been thinking about it for a while, and I don't know what scum-fuba would gain from this aside from drawing attention to himself. Like, it doesn't gain town-cred, it didn't get town lynched, and it certainly doesn't make me appear competent. Anyway, I certainly wasn't the greatest advocate of the Node lynch, though at the time I posted the wall of text you quoted I probably would have voted for him. I was actually ready to do so when D1 started, but all of the stuff involving marv not only made me put my vote on him immediately (what a shocker), but it also made me question the Node lynch. annul pointed out that the lynch might have been headed by scum, and it turns out he was in some way correct. It took me an eternity to be convinced that Node had done anything scummy, and finding scum at the head of the bandwagon made me question my interpretation. The fact that I ask for confirmation or corrections and they go unanswered also makes me unsure. That's not some kind of deflection onto everyone else, I'm probably just horrible at making it clear when I want something answered, and not assertive enough to actually get anyone to respond to me. Pretty much everything I say is ignored until someone wants to point it out as scummy, so my confidence in scumreads is pretty low. My post about VE was the first one where I felt that I'd found something significant that no one else had really mentioned before (except dead annul), so that post I will be sure to follow up on. So, did anyone actually read what I wrote about VE? What did you think about it? Anyone? @austinmcc Is Node still a strong scumread for you? Has marv's impending flip affected your view at all? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 04 2012 06:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Kei, I don't get why scum would want to claim RB. I think he claimed RB because he did, in fact, get RB and doesn't want an angry roleblocker on his ass. So, we got 2 vigi shots, and 2 mafia shots accounted for? mafia on BC and ... austin? and vigis on kingjames01 and annul. If that's correct, probably all shots went through and my VE got roleblocked and thus didn't kill supposition is wrong. Unless... austin is lying just so the angry roleblocker doesn't push VE or whoever else might have gotten roleblock as well? Hm... Carry on How does this make him not scum? Scum should feel compelled to claim just as much as town should... | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 04 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote: if you write in bold, people are sure to pay attention. So very cute. Quiet, rabble. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On October 04 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Please, by all means. Bring it on. I haven't done anything wrong except be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm bad at the game. At least 75% of the players in this game knew that already. :/ This is why I want to know what people think of my addition. It's entirely possible for someone to simply be wrong a lot. I don't know if VE is usually really good at scumhunting or not, and I don't have the time or the energy to go look up his past games, especially considering my poor reading speed and comprehension. What I've added is most convincing for me, but I know that I'll drop it unless I see that other people agree with me. Right now all I have is his defense here: On October 04 2012 06:54 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact is I've never seen annul play town mk. If I had, I might have said "Yeah he's hard to lynch regardless of alignment"...except I've never seen it...or if I have, I don't remember it because it was NOT memorable. My scum game with him was memorable for the reasons I've outlined. as well as Kreb telling me basically, "we don't have to talk about it." I have a town read on Kreb, so all of the feedback I've received tells me I should just kind of drop it. For me, what I've added is more compelling than him being wrong a lot. That could be coincidence, but this feels like scum manipulation. So let me know what you think. Do you think I'm on to something? Am I overanalyzing it? Does it seem like confirmation bias getting away from me? Were you slightly convinced by it and then his response negated it? All of these thoughts are going through my own head, and, unfortunately, I can't answer them all for myself. @SloOsh What do you think about my post regarding VE (linked above)? I see it as a reason to see VE as scum that doesn't simply revolve around him being incorrect. Same question goes for austinmcc and Kreb. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Go away. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 04 2012 09:04 kushm4sta wrote: Yes but marv switching from 1 townie to another is different from switching from 1 townie to a scum. I agree with this. Switching between two townies gets you the possibility of one townie killed now, and another one in the future. It leaves an air of uncertainty around the remaining townie that sticks throughout the game. Our present uncertainty (for those who are still uncertain about Node's alignment) indicates this. A switch from townie to scum is different. If most of the scum team saw Node as someone who they could bus for towncred without losing a valuable asset, then they might go for it. I, personally, don't feel that he's a major loss, so I could see it as a possibility that they were bussing him. If it were someone other than Node, I would be less inclined to believe so, but there it is. For a more firm personal stance on Node: I would be willing to vote for him in the future. I can see his posts being at least slightly scummy, and despite my view of his meta, everyone is right in saying that he has done nothing to show that he's town. If he comes back with some solid contributions, I'll rethink it, but at the moment I'd be up for a Node lynch (you know, after the far more secure lynch today XD). I'm heading out for some fun times now. I'll probably be back in a few hours. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'm going to back off of VE. I want to see what he contributes next. It's no secret that he was having difficulty reading annul, and that he thought annul had an alright chance of flipping scum. His townie motivation for pushing so strongly for a vigi shot on him are clear. Though I found that portion of his posting scummy earlier, his explanation is as good as any. Coming into this game I expected more from him, just because I know he's a big name around here. But I don't see "not meeting fuba's arbitrary expectations" as a reason to think he's scum. Now that he's committed to posting something strong in the future, I can wait to see what he has to say. Into the last few hours of posts: On October 04 2012 12:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum. I think. Anyone else wanna check my math? DP asked about this earlier, and there was no response. Is this VE claiming DP is scum, or some other interpretation I'm not understanding? Next, onto kush's response to ToutEstChaos regarding ShiaoPi: + Show Spoiler + On October 04 2012 15:03 kushm4sta wrote: OMG im a thread hero yayyyy.. I dont even know if that's sarcasm but fuck it I'm taking it seriously. The case against ShiaoPi... I hope you still have the receipt because I'm not buying! I want to say I can confirm shiaopi's meta that z-boson talks about. Quiet until the end of the game when it seems like he has a really good understanding of everything. I see him as a really valuable town asset. His activity so far has not been particularly suspect to me. I think it is a huge leap to say that his meta is to keep totally up to date on everything happening in the thread at all times. This thread is full of shit in a lot of places. Also he's playing another game ATM. Also IRL stuff. So it's very possible that he was just too busy to read the whole thread carefully at that time. About his "night-oriented mindset": dont see how you are getting this from one small post about role speculation. I am very confused about what roles there are myself and I would love for someone to explain the possibilities and point out the likelihood that someone may be lying. So 1 not useless speculation 2 that is actually just a small part of his content About his case on mkfuba: not a slam dunk but that's not really what it was meant to be. We just got a confirmed scum, so I see that case as shiaopi trying to mine our marv scum confirmation for any possible insight that can give us. Mkfuba following marv: i agree that there is some suspicion due to mkfuba for this. He follows marv real close and although he tries to give reasons for switching, they are pretty bad. Contrast this to me who also switched a lot but at least I was honest about having shitty reasons for voting someone. This is his mkfuba's reason for suspecting austin. I think it is a willful misinterpretation of "fun night." Why would a fun night mean you have something to talk about? It just means that there are a bunch of trolling and omgus etc. Maybe his cases are weaker than the ones you are used to, but if you are comparing it to cases he made in the end game, of course the early game cases are going to be weaker. @toutestchaos This quote from you explaining why scum wouldn't follow each other: I think that is more true in mini games than large games. There are a lot of scum (I think someone said 6). So if there were only 2 or 3 than sure they would try to separate, but as the number of scum grows, so does the necessity for overlap. Also I agree that scum marv would probably not advise a scumbuddy to follow him that closely. But it's not like all scum is taking orders from him in the QT. If mkfuba is scum he is probably doing his own thing for the most part, and he is rather inexperienced. I can't say that I've given ShiaoPi's meta a lot of thought, but I didn't really expect him to post all that much early game. About his "night-oriented mindset": dont see how you are getting this from one small post about role speculation. I am very confused about what roles there are myself and I would love for someone to explain the possibilities and point out the likelihood that someone may be lying. So 1 not useless speculation 2 that is actually just a small part of his content 1) even if it's fun/interesting to think about (which I believe it is), it's still pretty useless in scumhunting. We don't even know what the roles do, or what alignments they're with. We know there are people with powers, and that they understand a bit better than the rest of us what's going on. How is anyone but scum going to benefit from town discussing who did what to whom at this point in the game? 2) I agree that it's a small part of his contribution for today. Regarding my actions surrounding austin, I've been incredibly honest. "Fun night" was not my only reason for suspecting him. I've grown used to austin being a good contributor, and I assumed that "fun night" would imply a lot of action. Trolling and OMGUS may be fun for you kush, but when I heard austin say it, I felt it implied a large amount of stuff to comment on. The fact that he went mia for 24 hours after saying that was really suspicious to me. When he returned and started contributing up to (and beyond) his usual standards, I removed my vote. Simple as that. As for how I would interact with marv if we were both scum, I can't comment much. I mean, I sheep marv in almost all the games I've played with him. I completely ignored him as a suspect in DN mafia for reasons I can't explain. I sheep him heavily as town, so why wouldn't I listen to him when I know we're on the same team? DarthPunk's case on Kei seemed really good when I read it. The lack of scumhunting, combined with his response to the case, are convincing me. That's all I can really say without simply rehashing DP's case. Anyway, gotta get to class soon, so I'm posting what I have. Not sure how much I'll be available today. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 05 2012 01:27 slOosh wrote: Yea I'd go further and put him at probable scum given his latest post. His comments on players are more summaries and recaps of thread sentiments, he shies away from making any concrete stances, and does a good job spreading suspicions over a large pool even on his not-scum reads. He hasn't bothered to comment / vote on marv so it shows that he isn't actually reading the thread, but wants to make sure he is seen with contribution, probably in light his name being brought up for discussion by us. I had a look at his previous game (I believe his first game?). This is Hapa's synopsis of Sharrant's play that game, which I feel is more reliable than any kind of meta statement I could make about Sharrant. Sharrant: You're well-spoken and calm, which are huge assets to have as a townie. You have a taste for making "list" posts of players which I'd advise against. You don't have to make your opinions known on every single player in the game - listing your top scumread (or two) is enough unless requested otherwise. Focus more on questioning your top scumreads and scummy players. I looked through his filters for each game, and Hapa's synopsis seems accurate. Two differences that I could see between each game are that he's less active (number of posts) and is actively participating less (less interaction between him and other players). When I think of his contributions in the previous game, the lists are an addition to his townie contributions. In this game they seem like the main attraction. These two things are enough to make me lean scum. However, I don't see his lack of a vote on marv at the moment as particularly scummy. Wouldn't anyone returning to the thread want to get a vote on marv at this point? Why is scum more likely to forget to vote than town? Also, Sharrant's clearly read the thread, since his only post since returning mentions marv from a scum perspective 2-3 times. While Sharrant can still be said to be playing to his town meta (of one game), he looks scummier compared to his previous play. I wouldn't say it's because of his marv-related activities, but his means of interacting with the thread. | ||
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