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On October 05 2012 20:51 Z-BosoN wrote:
That's maybe because I changed my mind?
Gj knowing alsn is town btw. You must be smart.
Except the way you changed your mind makes no sense at all.
You say my case is laughable/silly then you say you'd be okay voting me.
Then you say that every time you want to punch me for being silly, my meta indicates I'm town, but now you'd be fine voting Djodref because he agrees with my case and you don't understand it.
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On October 06 2012 07:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
However, we still have three lynches till defeat.
debears -> shady -> Djodref should seal us the game.
I cannot for the life of me view SDM and RSC as scum right now. If one of you is, well, well played, win deserved.
Now all it takes is for town to put on reality goggles, realize why it is dumb for me to be scum, and seal the deal.
Why are you pushing for lynch trains already when no one on your list has flipped yet? All that does is give scum an easy way to NK people who everyone thinks is confirmed townie to setup the best LYLO situation possible.
On the RCs:
A cop RC is barely worth more than a Mason/Confirmed Townie RC at this point, since it's likely the last remaining scum is GF/Framer.
Likewise, a vet RC is essentially a null tell, because if there is a GF/Framer, there is no reliable way to check ZB. (If there is a GF, Z-Boson might be a false negative; if there is a Framer, ZB might be a false positive).
What seals the deal in terms of ZB's further scumminess is how he thinks Debears and or me are the last medic, and are inviting us to claim. That just smells to me like a blue-sniping attempt.
Remember at this point scum have to kill the medic fast, or else the game is over for them.
Finally, I am deeply dissatisfied with a no-lynch. In a situation where the last scum is trying to stay hidden, no-lynching is exactly what they want since they never have to "put their money where their mouth is" in terms of losing towncred by pushing a mislynch.
I am going to repeat this to everyone: at this point I do not see how you can a) assign any weight to ZB's vet claim or b) view the rest of his filter as anything but scum.
##Vote Z-Boson
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Note: come hell or high water I will not be switching my vote off Z-Boson. I will likely AFK before the vote again (since I'll be on a flight Sunday afternoon.)
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On October 06 2012 08:10 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 06:52 Z-BosoN wrote:Oh lol. Thought there was. Anyways, forgot about this one. From my POV n1, me and DP were the most likely hit targets. This is me trying to bait it towards me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=445&topic_id=370487It makes more sense than for scum to have shot DP twice. Scum prob thought the medic was saving me. My view on Djodref's claim is, unless we get to mylo where things get nasty, we should encounter it as legit. Shady Sands, in my eyes, is the only one who has a fair chance of being scum. We lynch debears, we lynch SS, we should be fine. Please don't be retarded and still find me scum after this. DP had a town meta read on me, and he's played in all my games. Much more trustworthy than a debears "lololol scum ZB posts in red!1" one. Now that the pressure is off, read my filter carefully and try to think why in the godamn hell would I take so muhc trouble to switch between townies, when it's 100 times easier (and safer) for me to stick with one. Also read my cases and tell me how in a million years they can even be compared to the ones on debears. Also, my claim makes a lot of sense. It's why I've been more aggressive and confident this game. There's this one other post I recall where I stated I had my own reasons for going after debears, but I can't find it, don't remember what to control+F and I don't think it's worth the trouble. My original plan was to claim having been shot n1 and using that as an argument to go full throttle against debears, whom I've been tunneling during day 1, but then I had decided this was a pretty bad argument and would lose my ticket to not being nk (I was thinking that there could be SK). Anyways, we should be good now. If debears or shady sands is medic, claim and seal the game 100%. Otherwise, just stick with debears and we should be fine. Why would you say you were vote switching among townies when you think I'm certain scum or shady is? Definite scumslip ##vote z-boson
Wait, I didn't see this coming in.
Wow.
Yeah, everyone who is still on the fence about ZB:
READ THE ABOVE TEXT PLEASE
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On October 06 2012 08:58 debears wrote:
I rescind my arguments.
##unvote
##vote shadysands
Got him. Jumped way too easily on that fake scumslip claim
What?
LOL
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Think for a second here, Debears. I've been pushing for a Z-Boson lynch since before anyone even brought him up as a candidate. I've been trying to lynch him for an entire votecycle. Ergo, isn't it completely logical for me to support arguments from other townies that support a ZB lynch?
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On October 06 2012 09:25 debears wrote:
But how do you explain the lack of a nk day 1? You don't believe his claim? There arent any kind of counter claims of a medix protect or another vet.
You make an illogical statment about his veteran claim and jump on an illogical scumslip.
Why would a medic counter claim in this situation, debears? A medic would only counter claim if he/she felt that it was necessary to get Z-Boson lynched over another candidate, and only after spending time thinking about it. Z-B rc'd when there was less than an hour to go before the lynch deadline, and he remains a likely candidate for a lynch today.
Indeed, if a medic counter claimed, it would be poor play, because that would open himself up for an easy NK and without a confirmed red to trade for it. After all, it would be trivial for ZB to claim that even though the medic had saved someone, the hit still landed on him; there would be no way for the third person who was saved to show that he had been saved (especially if that third person was DP or Alsn.)
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Remember that our medic (or jailkeeper) is the most precious resource we have right now, far more so than the cop, since the last mafia is almost assuredly framer or GF. Protecting him/her should be the second highest priority right behind finding the last scum.
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On October 06 2012 13:34 Djodref wrote:@ShadyYeah, I would especially like to have your input on this list. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 13:20 Djodref wrote:By the way, here is my take on the roles in this setup: - 2 Hardcore Lurker Townies
- 5 Classic Vanilla Townies
- The Newbie Scummy Cop
- The Exasperated Veteran
- The Troll Goon
- The Hardcore Lurker Goon
- The Lonely GodFather
I'm praising the hosts more such a balanced setup. I really liked the Troll Goon role  On a serious note, would you agree with it ? Please take a good look at this list and think about it calmly  Then answer the following questions: Do you believe my cop claim ? If not, why ? Do you believe Z-BosoN veteran claim ? If not, why ?
In spite of how useless they are in Mafia, I like lists in general so I'll respond to this.
I believe you are cop, until someone counterclaims.
I do not believe Z-Boson is veteran.
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On October 06 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:
Also SDM was pretty sure that Omni was the last mafia at this time. Which is why he didn't want to risk another mislynch I guess.
I would be so happy if debears is the last maf ^^ I've been tunneling him so hard...
@Shady
Forget Z-Boson for a while. What do you think of debears to be the last scum ?
If Z-Boson flips town, then Debears is probably the last scum.
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On October 06 2012 13:52 debears wrote:
Actually if zbo is town, you are likely the last scum shady : p
And why would that be the case?
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On October 06 2012 22:29 Djodref wrote:And now here is my analysis of Shady's filter ! His actions pretty much speak for themselves Please notice first how Corrosion's leaves the thread with a no-lynch vote. I think this move was advised by the mafia coach to let all options open for the replacement when he comes into the thread. So let's look at Shady's first real post. My comments are in red bold font in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 16:21 Shady Sands wrote:So at this point I have a moderate scum read on Alsn and strong town read on Darthpunk. Picks up Alsn as a target while distancing himself from the lynchI'm still not sold on Debears yet. Every time people push him as a lynch and everyone just nods along and agrees (this is based on a cursory ready through 30+ pages of filter late at night, so pardon me if I'm totally wrong about this), I get a wierd feeling in the pit of my stomach. Why? Because scum is already down one, there is almost zero chance they'd accede easily to a second consecutive bus. So if everyone is nodding along on Debears, and scum isn't going to roll over and bus again, then, WIFOM as this reasoning is, it doesn't seem reasonable that Debears should be scum. Alsn, however, feels scummy to me. Why? - First, his activity and "choppiness" is way higher than in the last newbie game I played with him, where he flipped town. That game, I was scum, and I whacked him N1 because his analysis was so dead-on, accurate, and well-composed--we actually placed killing him at a higher priority than trying to snipe our top cop read. I don't get that feeling with Alsn this game. Alsn's analysis has been much, much weaker than I usually give him credit for. But overall, meta is a weak way to read a player. Much stronger...
- ...is his reasoning regarding the Kush switch. He was one of the last to go to Kush and tried to appear as reluctant and thoughtful as possible. He also tried to subtly denigrate the worth of a Kush flip
First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange).
While we might just think he was being reluctant, part of me thinks Alsn posted like this because it was the only way out of a bad situation. Alsn went to sleep at 03:50, when no one had voted anyone yet. Then wakes up 14 hours and several pages later with a massive wagon forming on scum Kush. At this point, if Alsn was scum, he'd be stuck in a terrible spot: he needs to somehow look like he's been convinced into voting Kush. So he does do this, with a pretty WIFOM starting post that gets pressured and then gives him the ladder he needs to climb down to a kush vote. All in all a pretty neat play... but one that feels just a little too much like play-acting rather than genuine scumhunting for me to like it.
- Contrast his reads on Kush with his posts on Debears. Before he switches to Kush, he says he did soul searching and hard thinking and found no one as a better lynch. Then all of a sudden, on D2, when there's a fresh slate to push a new lynch, he starts using Debears' D1 posts as evidence that points to scumminess. This is wierd. Why didn't Alsn publish this beforehand? There is no motivation for a town Alsn to change his mind on cut and dry evidence in this fashion.
- Finally, and this is pure speculation unless a medic/JK comes out and claims an action on DP, the fact that there is no NK might mean that medic/JK saved the obvious confirmed townie (DP) and scum tried to kill him. This is wierd play if scum knows it's likely DP was going to be saved. This means something that DP did during night spooked scum. DP accused Alsn during the night.
The points add nothing new. He is clearly sheeping right now (as a lot of us did). I'm quite sure he did pick Alsn over Debears because he was afraid of Alsn potential in the future of the game.All four points are not damning guilt in and of themselves. But combined, they point a pretty compelling picture of a scum Alsn. Right now he's my strongest read and as such ##Vote AlsnHowever, he's only a moderate scumread. Depending on what happens between now and when I check in the thread in about 16 or 17 hours, I might change my mind. Distancing himself and disappear And comes back just to vote on debears with this post Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Alright, since Lesrah wasn't posting through D2 then that means that if debears was the other scum there was no other scum trying to stop his lynch. Hence the lack of opposition to his lynch becomes less of a town-tell to me. This, coupled with the earlier case on him (which he hasn't adequately responded to, imo) makes me view him as scum.
## Vote debears
Heading out for the night. If I don't make it back by daypost, cop please check omni or remedy and remember it is possible GF is last mafia. That's all, glhf. First of all, he doesn't give any kind of reasonable explanations for his vote. He is just sheeping on our previous cases on him which he was not buying yet, as he stated on his previous post. Plus, I'm sure now that I've found a serious scumslip in this post. I've checked all filters carefully and the few mentions of a cop role that I saw were referring to the game where DarthPunk was cop. Before him, nobody has ever mentioned nor imagined the possibility of a cop. At this time, he is the only one with me who know that we are playing a cop setup because he is the Godfather ! Please also notice how he wants me to check Omni or Remedy rather than Debears. He knows that Debears is town and doesn't want the cop to defend him the following day. Unfortunately, things don't go according to his plan during D3. Except me, nobody wants to lynch Debears anymore. And the focus is starting to get very close to him again (Omni and SS were the candidates for the second edition for the battle for the noose which never happened). He decided to confuse everybody by doing this Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote:
By the way, I'm reading through the thread. Right now, my top scumread, believe it or not, is Z-Boson. His interaction with Kush D1 was just... strange (it almost feels like half of the discussion there was occurring somewhere else, like in the Scum QT), his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd, and finally his constant fingerpointing without any commitment D3 fits the profile of being the very last scum trying to stay alive and set up mislynch chains over the next few cycles.
##FoS Z-Boson I fall into his evil trap and town goes scatter. We need two consecutive blue claims to avoid a mislynch, SDM brain has exploded, Z-Boson is super angry. Debears and me are running in circles. But now it is the end, the last scum is going to fall. So, Shady, how about you concede ?
Obviously since you're dead I can't really respond to you.
First, I assumed the existence of a cop because I thought the N1 kill was stopped by a medic or JK. In all the newbie games I played in the past, every time there was a medic/jk, there was either a cop or mason(s) to go along with it.
Second, how is me accusing Z-Boson in any way helpful to me surviving as the last scum? Think about it for a second: as the last scum, I want to be as non-controversial yet active as possible. Me accusing Z-Bo and then going AFK means that I accomplish neither. Why wouldn't I just lurk quietly or try and agree with everyone else on the popular lynch candidate (debears?) Moreover, if I was scum, and I was trying to mislynch Z-Bo, I should have started backing off as soon as you were wagoning me because then it would quickly become apparent I led a mislynch. But I haven't done any of this. Instead, I've stuck with a highly controversial scumread at the cost of what (little) towncred I had entering the game. Does this fit with what the last scum would do?
Third: If I am GF, then why would I kill you? You wouldn't be able to check me, you'd be as useless as a hanging paperweight in that instance. Why wouldn't I kill someone who is held up as a confirmed townie, like Stutters, instead of you, who is on several lynch lists anyhow?
Fourth: now that you're dead I'm going to do a 180 on the Z-Bo case. I am not the medic, and I doubt a medic exists in this game. If there was a medic you'd be the obvious save and you wouldn't be dead. Hence Z-Bo's vet claim makes sense (notwithstanding him talking about how likely it was that there was a medic). Ergo, if Z-Bo is vet then the last scum is probably between me and debears.
Fifth: why Debears? The guy has been trying to agree with people without pushing substantial independent cases for two complete cycles now. First he wagons Alsn (admittedly, all of us did), then he pushes lists of candidates which have little analysis tied to any one suspect, then flip flops between me and Z-Bo in accusing each other with a weak "fakeclaim scumslip trap" which ironically is a pretty good piece of evidence against Z-Bo.
Fifth: so now I'm going to urge everyone to consolidate on either me or debears to figure this out. If this means I have to vote for myself to get a lynch as opposed to a no-lynch, then so be it. But for now, I'm going to
##Vote debears
since I think he's still a lot scummier than I am.
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On October 07 2012 07:51 Z-BosoN wrote:
This game is pretty much over. Djo dying is evidence there's not medic, as I was assuming due to a highly presumptuous DarthPunk. It also makes sense role-wise. That being so, there shouldn't be a shred of doubt I'm actually a veteran.
Debears, just concede man. Pointless to keep on playing.
Just a tip for the next game: one of the reasons why I disbelieved your initial claim that you were a vet was that you waited so long to do it. While it makes sense to make scum feel uncertain at the existence or non-existence of a medic, after DP died scum would probably think that there was no medic anyhow. That's why your RC timing didn't make a lot of sense to me and hence why your entire RC didn't make a lot of sense to me.
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On October 07 2012 14:45 Z-BosoN wrote:
lol, giving a tip are you? I don't get why you even play this game. You don't read, you don't think and worst of all, show no will to improve. How do you think "placing my vote on you and will go afk in the next 17h and nothing will change my mind lololol" is either A) townie or B) a good mindset to have?
I waited so long to do it because I got shot n1. Why would I claim, what does this info add? Scum wouldn't target me again in case I could have been SK (or thought so at the time, didn't realize there were no such thing in this setup). I was forced to claim because of a shit words-cannot-describe retard wagon on me.
If you RC and let us know there is no medic, it helps town play immensely... for example, Djo claimed cop thinking there was a medic to save him. He died for it.
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On October 08 2012 12:31 debears wrote:
O.o that was ss. Ill conced on th zbo thing. However, ss will be in th spotlight, considering he is the other main lynch candidate. But you haven't had it. And your scum defense of not looking at my filter and not voting me are terrible
lol wow.
yeah, just concede
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On October 08 2012 12:54 debears wrote:
Wow shady. Are you even reading the thread?
You dont find sdms actions suspicious at all?
No, he's legitimately defending himself against your accusations. You're just flinging mud everywhere in the hopes that it sticks
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On October 09 2012 08:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
So SDM, why should we lynch shady and not RSC?
I dunno, rereading the filters, I'm starting to have a bad townie feel on corrosion. However, RSC also gives me a town feel. And there's no way you are scum so wtf is going on lol
Find anything interesting in the filters?
Z-Bo, NK will put us at LYLO. Why are you so eager to force SDM to spill his views on everyone else?
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EPT
