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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote: well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874 You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote: I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity. Your guys thoughts? Policy lynching one of the best town players day 1 =/= good idea. Like I'm all for policy lynching marv if he's alive past Night 3 (he's basically an auto N1/N2 NK for mafia if he's town), but that's about it. I propose a less-randomly decided lynch against iamperfection. Thoughts? | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote: These are the kinda thoughts you keep in your head. Mafia purposely keeps marv alive, for a totally WIFOM, end game cause of what you said. If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red. Explain why you think iamperfection is mafia because of that post. No random lynches. Just 'cause there's nothing else to do right now. He posted a bad idea, and I would like to discover his motives for said bad idea. | ||
Hapahauli
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Sample size ftw. You list a grand total of TWO town games to compare his opening lines against, one of which is a replacement game. I highly doubt his first post is indicative of his alignment. That being said, it's usually pretty easy to tell if he's scum no? As you said in your own post, he's often very disinterested as mafia, and plays very differently as town. | ||
Hapahauli
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If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss | ||
Hapahauli
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Read your "damn case." If you want to make a meta-case based on a couple of his posts, go riiiiiiiight ahead. I personally find it worthless without more context. You took the first posts of two of his town games to compare against, one of which was a replacement game. That reads confirmation bias up the butt. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote: The fact of the matter is, as town prplhz is aggressive, throws his vote around, and is fearless, and in like 4 scum games he is the opposite. Sorry, is 4 scum games not enough to convince you to vote him? That's fine! Show me some counter-evidence! If you think he's genuinely town, you have 2 options to move my vote off him. 1) show me my case is wrong (rather than just poking at it ineffectually). I've seen you do this as town so I know you can. 2) present a better case. If it's really a bad D1 case like you said, you should be able to do better. Do it. I'll vote who-ever is the scummiest in the thread and lynch scum. Right now, that's prplhz, and you have utterly failed to convince me otherwise. Sample. Size. It's been... what... an hour? If "townie" prplhz is aggressive, fearless, throws his vote around, you need much more than a half-page of filter to figure that out. Maybe you have some sick meta read on him or something, but I sure as hell can't see it in that case. I'll propose a lynch candidate as the day gets underway. It may be prplhz, who knows, but it sure as hell won't be based on his first-posting tendencies. Hell you can probably find my first-posting tendencies as town/mafia that won't be indicative at all of my alignment. I'm sure as hell I could do the same for anyone here. I'm much more interested in overall mentality and behavior rather than some silly meta-pattern. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 07:17 Blazinghand wrote: Prplhz mentality and behavior is that of a dude who is prodding and asking inane questions to which he already knows the answer. This rings alarm bells for me, and it's the reason I did some research into his meta in the first place. You're welcome to dismiss the meta, but the fact of the matter is he has done no scumhunting and has tried to appear active when in fact he is asking questions which do not apply pressure and to which he already knows the answer. It's been a fucking hour. That's not enough to display an overall "mentality and behavior." Why don't we take a step back, wait for him to gather a couple of posts, THEN decide if he's poking and prodding. If he's still doing this stuff, yes, let's lynch the hell out of him. That's part of his scum meta. His first few posts are not indicative of mentality. For example, I have a history of strongly advocating "lynch-lurker" type policies as my opener as town. I am deviating from this right now. Does that make me mafia? People are capable of changing those things on a whim. Basing a meta read on 6 posts is stupid. I'd much rather have 24 hours of his posting history in this game, and then I'll make a more-informed decision on his mentality. | ||
Hapahauli
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##Vote austinmcc | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote: I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. 1 It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early.2 If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later.3 But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. 4 Holy wishy-washy post batman! Let's follow the logic: 1) First post is scummy and case makes prplhz scummier! 2) No such thing as voting too early! (errr... where did that come from? making excuses already?) 3) But eh... it will generate discussion and we'll look more into it later. (oh? thought prplhz was very scummy to you? awfully passive for such a strong read on him) 4) Holy freggin wishy-washy opinion on austinmcc. | ||
Hapahauli
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@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now. @ mmtoss - On September 18 2012 08:02 Mementoss wrote: 1) Yeah first post was scummy and it fits the meta analysis aka best case atm. How is accusing people scummy? 2) I said no such thing as voting too early is because a lot of people think they have to wait till last minute to vote especially on day 1, and usually a bad consolidation happens. Voting earlier will just bring up more cases throughout the day. 3) Nothing to do with one another. 4) How is calling someone scummy wishy washy. I don't follow your logic. But I guess it's your thing to jump on me day 1s lol. Point 1) is fine alone. It's the rest of your post that starts spiraling. Why are you making excuses for voting too early (point 2 + 3)? Cool, you're voting early, no one is suspicious of you for it... and then you make pro-active excuses for it. Point 4 is a red flag for me in that you are soft-pushing suspicion on him. For reference: But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. 4 Dayyyyum son. ##Vote mementoss | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 08:38 HiroPro wrote: hapa, your thoughts on goodkarma? Null - he's made one post, and from what I know of his meta, he's capable of that as town or scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=5#91 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=5#97 | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote: BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me? marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation? My D1 voting spreads like an STD. In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed. As for marv, I believe he's putting the finishing touches on the newbie game he's hosting, so he probably won't be around for a bit. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote: you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? | ||
Hapahauli
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"you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 09:39 Blazinghand wrote: lol hapa wat? I find those things can be scumtells. Walk into the thread, "LOL UR CASE SHIT" doesn't strike me as particularly townie. | ||
Hapahauli
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But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote: Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. First post as in the rando lynch thing? Well that's not indicative of his alignment as far as I'm concerned, considering he mentioned it was pre-planned. What I find strange is his opinion on BH's case. Flips out very suddenly, and I'm currently reading it as scummy in context of the lack of contributions he's had so far. I'll need much more to vote him though. Top scumread's still U btw. | ||
Hapahauli
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Your "case" is based on two things: 1) That I voted iamperfection based on his random vote. This is false 2) "Defending" prplhz - this is misleading #1 On September 18 2012 10:00 Hapahauli wrote: First post as in the rando lynch thing? Well that's not indicative of his alignment as far as I'm concerned, considering he mentioned it was pre-planned. What I find strange is his opinion on BH's case. Flips out very suddenly, and I'm currently reading it as scummy in context of the lack of contributions he's had so far. I'll need much more to vote him though. Top scumread's still U btw. #2: I'm not defending prphlz. I didn't have an opinion on prphlz (and still don't btw). I just thought BH's case was bad, and that should be pretty clear from my filter. | ||
Hapahauli
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let's look at this post for instance. This is a confirmation bias-kind of post, but it in no way means anything to IAMP's alignment. In fact, it is just another null tell. Yet for some odd reason that I can't think of, someone cursing at a case(made by BH of all people) is somehow over-the-top scummy See this is the issue here: Hapahauli finds something on IMP's post and thinks it's scummy. It is a scumtell. What part of BH's post here do you not understand? Sure iamperfection could be townie but his lack of contribution so far combined with this is a scumtell. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=8#146 But seriously, you accuse me of having confirmation bias and then accuse me of being scum? That makes perfect sense. The funniest part of this all(that I just realized)? He never voted IMP! Even though he proposes imp's lynch twice(first after his random vote, then now by saying he is over-the-top scummy), he is set on mementoss. His reasoning is explained as mementoss being 'wishy-washy' on almost less evidence than BH himself! YOU ARE LYING AGAIN. I haven't voted IMP because mementoss is my top scumread. I have mentioned this here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=8#151 Finally, dismissing a case = defending the player. If you are going to dismiss a case, you either provide solid evidence(more than 'this case is bad because it is not researched enough' even though it had 3 months worth of research) or you show why the attacked player is townie. Wrong again. I "dismissed" the case on the basis that it was a meta-read based on 6 of prplhz's posts within the first hour of the game. That much should be obvious and clear. Also, BH dropped his read on prplhz pretty quick, so we're not talking about an incredibly sound "3 months worth of research" meta case here. Is NOT at all part of my case. I never, EVER, mentioned that you voted him. I mentioned that you proposed that he is a good player to be lynched after his BS from the first-post(which in turn leads you to be eligible to the Zephirdd Rule). Who is not reading? You're not reading. Hell I think you're deliberately misrepresenting yourself now. Your "rule:" "The person that thinks the bullshit from a first post to be scummy is almost certainly scum." I criticized iamperfection's first post. I have NOT called it scummy. I have explicitly called it NULL in my filter. You Are A Liar (or a really really bad townie - but I won't pursue that until I finish with mementoss and iamperfection) | ||
Hapahauli
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##Unvote ##Vote Zephirdd | ||
Hapahauli
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am I misrepresenting? YES You did propose his lynch. A town player is supposed to lynch scum, so why would you propose his lynch? If you are proposing someone's lynch, it certainly is because you think he is scum. Or is it? Hint hint there are several ways to react to that post in a townie manner. They were done just before you did. Apparently my humor befuddles you. Shall I explain it or will you re-read it with the correct intent? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=3#59 On September 18 2012 12:52 Zephirdd wrote: Also, it's funny that Mementoss is supposed to be your strongest scum read when you talked so much about IMP. In fact, it's funny that you post this: but mementoss is still your scum read here: Yes and? I explained very clear my stances here. I am "leaning scummy" on iamperfection. MMtoss is my top scumread. So are you suggesting that the second I declared MMtoss my top scumread, I must immediately tunnel the shit out of him when he's not posting and refuse to peruse other reads? Cause it sounds like it. Your whole case on IMP is that he reacted to marv's case by cursing. You called that over the top scummy. Your whole case on Mementoss is simply terrible to warrant a vote. Hell, even your pressure-vote on austin wasn't the brightest of them. I mean, what can we get from that? That you are being useful by making others do their work? And then you top it off with a pretty OMGUS. :D Yes that is my whole case on IMP. Me and BH find it scummy. For some reason, you do not. You have not yet explained why my "case" on mmtoss is bad. My "pressure" vote on austinmcc served it's purpose - got him to post his rationale for his sheeping on the BH case. You sound like you want me to write a multi-paged meta-dissertation on all my early D1 scumreads. Call it an OMGUS, but you're my top scumread now. This is a terrible case, and you've been misrepresenting me for the last three posts. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 13:40 Zephirdd wrote: tbh hapa, there is very little that would change my mind coming from you. How do you go from over-the-top scummy into 'leaning scum'? Ok now you're just dense. My posts on iamperfection this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=3#59 Sarcastic proposal mimicing the language IAMP's proposition. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=7#137 "over the top AND scummy" , NOT "over-the-top scummy" ****you're misreading the shit outta this**** http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=8#143 "doesn't strike me as particularly townie" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=8#149 "leaning scummy" Any contradictions here? May I borrow your beer goggles? I am suggesting that you should push your scum read when you have a freaking scum read. Hmmm... so I'll push MMtoss when he's not in the thread. That's so productive! Why didn't I think of that?! I'll get PLENTLY of stuff done on day 1 by attacking a player who isn't here! OMG you're so good! =D (/scarcasm since you missed my last bit of humor) I pushed MMtoss as much as I could while he was in the thread. He is not in the thread, therefore I'll pursue other reads. Your case on him is that you think he is wishy-washy. that's it. Apparently, being wishy-washy day1 is scummier than the over-the-top scum. Before you say it, I'm not misrepresenting anything here. And again, you misread the shit out of my posts. I said a post by IamP "over the top AND scummy" , not "over-the-top scummy." Secondly, my "case" is based more than on just him being wishy-washy. He soft-pushed suspicion on austinmcc, made excuses for his early vote even though it was not suspicious, and on top of all that was overall very wishy-washy. This, in my mind, is a perfectly legitimate reason to pressure someone on Day 1, given that all those actions are considered scumtells. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 18 2012 13:40 Zephirdd wrote: tbh hapa, there is very little that would change my mind coming from you. But this is my cue to ignore you for the rest of the game. It looks like you're misreading the shit out of my posts and that doesn't necessarily make you scummy. It's equally likely that you're bad town. Null for now, and back to mementoss. Looking forward to hearing from Ange777 and bluelightz who have not yet posted. ##Unvote ##Vote mementoss | ||
Hapahauli
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G'nite folks. | ||
Hapahauli
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@ HiroPro: hapa was the person who brought up suspicion of Mementoss for jumping onto the prplhz case early. Yet later hapa tried to say that no one was supicious of Mementoss for voting early and says that Mementoss is making unneccessary excuses. When hapa asked me for my thoughts on Mementoss, that was one of the points I brought up. Yet hapa has completely ignored it. So not only did hapa not remember his own read, which suggests it's fake, but then he ignores me when I point out a direct flaw in his case. Apologies if I ignored you before - I got caught up in Zeph's case most of last night and didn't think about much else. But you do bring up a good point on that mementoss post (in regards to him defending himself), and I'll concede that as a contradiction. I'll withdraw my vote on MMtoss for now. Also Hiro, I'm also eager to hear what you think about marv's case + vote on you. ##Unvote | ||
Hapahauli
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Well first-off, I don't know why people are giving Palmar townie points all of a sudden. He's capable of being insterested in a game as scum: I present to you his filter Bureaucracy Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086 Not to say that he is scum (I agree with him on Iamperfection after thinking about it some), but this isn't indicative of his alignment methinks. That being said, looking to hear more about his vote on Marv. I agree marv hasn't been as active as usual, but he did spend a lot of time finishing his Newbie game last night. I don't think his early game activity is yet indicative of his alignment. | ||
Hapahauli
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Regarding this: On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote: No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier. Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being fairly critical of the town in DN Mini mafia for wanting to lynch Palmar D1. | ||
Hapahauli
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@ Marv Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being fairly critical of the town in DN Mini mafia for wanting to lynch Palmar D1. Also, are you voting Palmar because you think he's scum? It looks to me like you're using it as an insult as opposed to voting for scum. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 19 2012 02:28 HiroPro wrote: Why are my points on goodkarma/Palmar weak. Explain. I've explained my thoughts on GoodKarma already. He's capable of making that post as town or scum. As for Palmar, him being suspicious of a couple of people when entering the thread doesn't mean he's mafia. An interesting observation for sure, but not one that is telling of alignment. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 19 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote: Is this something that hapa normally feels? I remember him voting for Palmar in DN for no other reason than that Palmar was trolling. You'll know that I got off my palmar vote in that game pretty quickly - you of all people should know this, because I spent the latter half of Day 1 in DN tunneling you. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 19 2012 04:39 marvellosity wrote: Ange, dear, what do you make of Hapa's point in the first place? Like, Hapa is a clever fellow. The line of reasoning he proposed - "you think he's scum therefore why would you consider what he has to say" seems really off to me. Not quite as off as prplhz agreeing with it mind, but off nonetheless. How is it off? It can be scummy in a certain context, and your explanation makes sense enough. What I have an issue with, is your completely off-the-wall stance on Palmar this game that you still have not answered for. You have vocally made known your displeasure for voting Palmar in a previous game, saying it was a really stupid idea. Then all of a sudden you are more than willing to throw an OMGUS vote against Palmar for no sane reason I can think of. It's not even clear you did it because you thought he was mafia. Your rationale was based around that you think he's "awful" this game, and that Palmar somehow wouldn't get a D1 read wrong. I think you're a much better player than this, which bothers me. Until I get a straight answer: ##Vote Marvellosity | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 19 2012 05:19 marvellosity wrote: The fact is that you made the vote at all, Hapa. So what? I made a mistake that game and I've since learned from it. Lynching Palmar D1 is a bad idea. Problem is, you know that lynching Palmar D1 is a bad idea, and yet you voted him in pure OMGUS. | ||
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Hapahauli
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"read the fucking thread" | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:34 marvellosity wrote: also, I'll answer you on Palmar if you can give me a coherent scum motivation behind my blatant OMGUS gogogo I don't think there's a coherent scum motive - I think you are capable of doing it as scum or town. I would like an explanation on the contradiction, which until you answer it, makes me question your motives. | ||
Hapahauli
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Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz? Slightly town. He's been fairly active, though not as aggressive as people would like. I've seen two games with mafia-prplhz where he cares much less about the game (GSL Open Mini and Dwarf Fortress Mini), and I have no reason to lynch him on meta. His posts so far are alright, not a fan of him sheeping on marv in the way that he did, but that's a null tell. I also consider this post slightly-townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=6#113 It seems pretty open overall, hence the slight-townie read. | ||
Hapahauli
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Well looking more at the "contradiction" I posted about marv, since he was scum in the game that he defended Palmar, it seems pretty weird for him to do a complete 180 on it if he were hypothetical mafia in this game. Null for now, unless Palmar comes up with something to backup his read. Mkfuba's silence is odd, as BH pointed out. Also I'll have to reconsider austinmcc, because he hasn't done anything but defend himself all game. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 19 2012 05:48 Zephirdd wrote: True. Do you think it's worth more to kill mkfuba now than say, prplhz(your top scum read)? Or is it a game of chances or something? Do you consider that post something that would never be made as scum? How is sheeping on marv a null tell, considering marv is now voting him again and his reasoning to vote Palmar was basically a 'lol'? He could make such a post as scum. I find it more likely that he'd make it as town though, hence the slight-townie read. Him sheeping on marv doesn't say anything about his alignment. Like really. I don't understand the rest of your question. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:51 Blazinghand wrote: Hm, that's a really good question. I suppose you're right-- prplhz is more clearly scum so I should be focusing on getting him lynched. I'm gonna break with every rule and advice I've ever followed or given, though, and continue with this vote on mkfuba. The reason is simple. His play pisses me off (logically, not emotionally) and I refuse to let it go by. I will NOT allow him to live, I will NOT allow his tactics, his choices to be a viable scum strategy. This isn't a policy lynch, this is a matter of principle. He will not skate by. I'll take what you said about prplhz to heart, though. I'm gonna think about it and reread prplhz filter for a bit. Perhaps I should be voting him. Wait what? You think prplhz is more clearly scum, but you want to lynch mkfuba because of "principle?" | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote: I'm amazed you think weak sheeping from a seasoned player is a null tell, hapa. Seasoned players vote like that all the time, and I have yet to connect a mafia-mentality with prplhz. | ||
Hapahauli
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The fact that you think you have a compelling case against prplhz and aren't perusing it really bothers me, especially since mkfuba's lurkiness can be attributed to any alignment given sets of contexts. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: So far all he's done is provide pointless townread and sheep pathetically, and you're reading town? Slightly-town yes. Mostly based on the post I linked before. | ||
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On September 19 2012 06:07 Zephirdd wrote: anyways I'm back to work. I want to see other people answering the stuff I asked What are your current reads Zeph? You don't have any outstanding votes, and I'm trying to figure out where you stand. | ||
Hapahauli
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Someday... | ||
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On September 19 2012 09:46 mkfuba07 wrote: It's mostly that you give up a boatload of town reads and only commit to a scumread after the best scumhunter (or so I've been told) also votes for that person. The fact that that person is marv, who would be a big loss if he flips town (which I currently think he would), is a factor in that as well. So voting the top scumread of the best scumhunter makes someone scummy? I wasn't aware of that tell. | ||
Hapahauli
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In addition to your IMP and prplhz reads, you talk a lot about Hiro. What is your stance on him? You didn't clarify it in your conclusion. | ||
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So I don't think prplhz is suspicious for now. Iamperfection is a bit trickier. He has this "I don't give a fuck" mentality towards any suspicion directed toward him, and that makes me lean town on him. Even though his post count has been lacking, I find his mentality more attributable to town than to mafia. The players that I'm most looking at now are those I feel are "coasting" through the game: Bluelightz mkfuba HiroPro HiroPro especially, because he's distanced himself from the prplhz talk completely. He criticized BH's case on him early in the day, and hasn't mentioned him once since, despite him being a dominant topic of discussion. | ||
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On September 18 2012 10:57 HiroPro wrote: What was it specifically about prplhz's post that you liked? On September 18 2012 14:25 HiroPro wrote: Why is the case on prplhz good, Zeph? He never follows up either of those questions, and overall has been extremely lurky. I'm not going to vote for now, as I've been throwing my vote around waaaaaaay too much today. I'm going to sleep on it, wait for his response, and decide. G'nite folks | ||
Hapahauli
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Palmar - I've made it clear why I think lynching him D1 isn't a good idea. Ange - Feels townie, and similar enough with her other townie meta so far. Austinmcc - Could arguably be on the list for not doing much other than defending himself. He does sound genuine, and after defending his "too obvious" comment, he's drawn a lot of attention to his defense and hasn't been satisfied with me accepting it. Drawing attention to himself alot gives him some townie points in my book. | ||
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Have you seen some of the reasoning that people are voting him? Austin sheeped him apathetically. Bluelights sheeped him a looooing time ago. Blazhinghand thinks he's the scummiest player, but has voted for marv and mkfuba in the interim for questionable reasons. MMtoss voted him on Day 1, has discussed several other cases and has barely mentioned prplhz at all since. Ange is the only person who has something resembling reasonable suspicion on prplhz, and even then I highly disagree with it. I'll get to this more after class, but we should really be looking at some of the people on the prplhz wagon. Especially MMtoss. | ||
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I'll re-iterate what I said before. Mementoss voted for prplhz early in the game. He never once questioned prplhz, and hasn't mentioned him for well over 24 hours while having his vote on him. This makes no sense from a townie perspective. As for prplhz, I have a townie read on him. Too many people are sheeping his case. Things are coming together too easily. Finally, I don't agree with Ange's case. Ange reads his posts as "useless fluff", and therefore he's scum. I read his posts completely differently, and see a townie who's being open with his suspicions. For example, look how he voted marv, and explicitly stated he had reservations about it. That's not scum behavior. Voting for someone you don't believe is scum = scum behavior. Voting someone while expressing reservations is a cautious townie. What's the point of including that reservations line as scum? It's just as easy to sheep and tunnel marv without any reservations. To me, his "reservations" say that he's open about his reads and mentality. I believe prplhz is town. Please take a look at mementoss's filter. There's nothing townie about it. He seemingly forgot about his suspicions prplhz and has been trying to point fingers since. Like read his filter, he never has a definite scumread and has been fanning the flames of several cases made through the day; astinmcc, mkfuba, and most recently marv. | ||
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On September 20 2012 01:08 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, could you give me your current read on austin, please? My read last night gave him a few townie points, and his recent posting seems well-reasoned enough. He's also voting for my top scumread, so that always helps. Townie for now, but will re-evaluate based on flips of course. | ||
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On September 20 2012 00:02 Zephirdd wrote: ##unvote ##vote prplhz bluelightz sheeps any player who he feels to be town blazinghand had his view changed but decided prplhz to be better after all Mementoss has stated that his top scum read is the one guy he is voting, and most of his posts are somehow connected to prplhz's case or people who aren't on his case austin looks bad, I don't disagree with it I've posted my reasons earlier and IMP is clearly not happening Ange is legit as well like you said Bluelightz sheeps players who he feels are TOWN and you're voting for prplhz? Mementoss has never mentioned or even attempted to question his top scumread. Seems legit. I've recently posted my thoughts on Ange's case, take a look. and finally, there is way too much resistance on prplhz. resistance in form of a marvellosity lynch that I find to be unjustified, in form of a mementoss lynch that is coming out of fucking nowhere, in form of terrible posts from iamperfection, in form of terrible posts from hiropro. Of course a mementoss lynch is "coming out of fucking nowhere." Several people find him scummy. That's not a reason to dismiss a case. In fact, you seem more critical about town than you actually care about scumhunting. You're not town, are you? | ||
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On September 20 2012 01:22 Mementoss wrote: EBWOP: @ Hapa if you read my last post before my defence post, I mention that I still maintain that I think prphlz is scum and the way the lynch is going makes me think he is scum even more. Where's this? You certainly haven't recently stated that you think prplhz is scum unless I'm missing something. Also, you never perused your read on your top scumread until I pointed it out to you. | ||
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Ahhh I missed that. That still doesn't change mementoss never actually perusing his top scumread. | ||
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I'd much rather lynch mmtoss, but I'll lynch a null read over my town read (prplhz) any da. | ||
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Prplhz is my mason buddy That much should be obvious for how much I've been defending him all game. | ||
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Fuck, I wish I could post my damn IRC log from this | ||
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He'll flip mason in 3 minutes, we'll mislynch, and we can all have a good time pointing fingers N1. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:59 austinmcc wrote: C9++ rolls...2 or 3 scum right? You're saying they either out their ENTIRE team or 2/3 of it to save one? Pretty much this. | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:04 Ange777 wrote: Claiming mason is so easy and you really waited till the last few minutes to do it? I was out until 20 minutes ago. I though people wouldn't be this fucking stupid and voting Prplhz when meta evidence was the polar opposite. | ||
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Time to re-evaluate some reads in the last few pages. People who honestly thought we were scum after the screwed up claim get some townie points. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:42 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still in class, but I finally have a chance to post. I was leaning towards removing my vote before I had to swich classes, but I didn't want to just unvote and leave without having a chance to say why. Most of my arguments for him were addressed with his recent posting. He has become more active and, I may just be easily swayed (hell, I know I am) but he seems sincere in his recent scumhunting. ##Unvote ##Vote prplhz I actually think that I would be happier with a MMToss lynch, but at the moment the only options appear to be austin and prplhz, and I'm liking austin more right now. Oh hai there scum. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=36#715 | ||
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"liking austin more right now" = thinking austin is more townie as opposed to thinking austin is more scummy. Anywho, surprised marv sheeped me on that one. | ||
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On September 20 2012 07:22 austinmcc wrote: Marv was discussing lynching fuba before you brought up that post. No no no, I mean I thought marv would have corrected me on that or something. He's usually very big on attacking bad logic. | ||
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Not caught up enough in the thread. I've been out most of the day and I haven't analyzed the chunk of pages around 22-26 or something. I think ange has two of her bigger posts around then, and I'll take a look tonight. | ||
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He seems too enthusiastic at times http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=27#532 There are also several posts where he really works through his thought process in a townie way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=22#428 I consider the last paragraph in the above link a town tell - he's really open about how he's thinking. | ||
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On September 20 2012 08:12 Palmar wrote: What the hell happened with the claim... Anyway dumb lynch. I'll post later. That's for the post-game rage =/ | ||
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Off the top of my head, I still want MMtoss dead. Fact of the matter is that he voted prplzh early and never pursued his read. Votes him here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=149074 He mentions him twice until I call him out for it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=11#207 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=24#475 (last paragraph) He never gives clear reasoning for his suspicions. He never attempts to question prplzh, his top scumread. He's content to push suspicion on several players (making his reads and reasoning known on each) without so much as a mention of prplzh. Like look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=23#441 Look how willing he is to comment on suspicion against mkfuba and marvellosity... yet his reads on prplzh are nowhere to be found. I also find his actions near the lynch deadline to be quite strange. His first comment after the Nightpost: On September 20 2012 06:03 Mementoss wrote: vote for worst claim in history both timing and context. He then proceeds to buddy me with incredibly obvious comments: On September 20 2012 06:03 Mementoss wrote: Alright Hapa pretty confirmed? On September 20 2012 06:08 Mementoss wrote: Yeah you claiming before the flip was good because you confirmed yourself. Prphlhz claiming vig not so good. On September 20 2012 08:07 Mementoss wrote: Since we both have a scum read on MKfuba who would your 2nd best scum read be atm. But what's interesting most interesting is how active he is after the lynch deadline, as opposed to his complete silence before the deadline. All the other active members of the thread commented on the badly executed mason claim in the posting frenzy in the last ten minutes. Mementoss just sat there and watched. Coupled with his sudden activity right after the thread and the content of his posts, I think this is scummy. | ||
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He mentions him twice until I call him out for it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=11#207 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=24#475 (last paragraph) Second link is wrong, correct link below: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=23#441 | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote: I don't even understand this game anymore. Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses. mementoss is probably not scum. marv and austinmcc both have a good chance of being scum, but I feel considerably better about marv. It's also very strange how hard it is to get any kind of a train rolling against marv. I've already explained why this guy is the one that needs to hang today. Can we consolidate there, please? So vote austin when he's Palmar's 2nd scumread and Palmar believes prplzh is obvious town, right? On September 20 2012 04:43 Palmar wrote: Fuck it. I'm off for a bit. [b]I'll rather no-lynch than do a dumb lynch so see you guys later.[b] Nope. | ||
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Bluelightz has two substantial posts in his filter: Case on Mementoss ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=9#179 He states that Mementoss isn't contributing, then proceeds to quote like 10 of his posts. More importantly, this was all on day 1, where mementoss's activity levels were acceptable by any standard. Case on Prplzh ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=25#484 This is a really interesting case, because nowhere in the case does he say that Prplzh is "scummy" or is scum. He repeatedly mentions how certain aspects of prplzh's play upsets him ("ticks him off", yadda yadda), but it's not clear if he's even voting prplzh because he's scummy. It also seems somewhat of an "overkill" case. At that point in the game, prplzh was the clear leading vote candidate with plenty of cases out there against him. Making some gigantic summary post wanting to lynch prplzh is completely unnecessary and reads like an attempt to fake a contribution. In addition, he has zero interaction with his #1 scum read. | ||
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Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295 He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128 He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him. The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418 He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote: On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do. Any examples? After looking at his meta a bit, I'd expect townie bluelightz to give a town read on Mementoss at some point in the game. Really I find it odd that he tunneled prplzh without giving opinions on any of the other lynch candidates. | ||
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1st post: On August 22 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote: Hello, Bluelightz is here . I have suspicions on Obvious which I will outline in my next post. 2nd post: On August 22 2012 10:59 Bluelightz wrote: Nevermind my Obvious suspicions, his response is towny. His response is towny because of this (that he has time, he's spending time to discuss stuff with town). He then posts 1 or two more things on Obvious then gets caught up in defending himself, jumping around votes and suspicions. He finally votes obvious on the lastminute bandwagon, but follows it up with this: On August 24 2012 10:41 Bluelightz wrote: I'd love jumping to chez, but imma make a quick case first on him. Just a remarkably different mentality - much less sure of himself, and much more open with his reads. | ||
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Eh? I just read that and that's not what happened at all: Referring to... I don't find that odd in the slightest, to be honest. In NMM3 he called Obvious scum, Obvious made some response, Bluelightz backed down immediately. | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:59 HiroPro wrote: Bluelightz's play is not similar to NMM2, lol. I cohosted that game. I haven't payed much attention to his town games (other than WOF, which is an aberration for him), so I dunno about that part. I remember in NMM2 he was forcing his reads so hard. Like it was obvious that he was going after someone just to look like he was doing something. The way to catch him is when he slips (he slipped hard that game in the VE-slOosh lynch). Connections work too. But I haven't see anything from him this game that's really alignment-indicative. This is what his case on prplzh reads like to me. | ||
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Overall, I just really want to hear more from him. Town really let him get away with sitting back and taking obvious stances this game. | ||
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On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot. Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die. I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us. it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention. Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest. No. No not really. also, looks like hiro and marv are both voting for austinmcc, which makes it less likely that he's scum at face value, although that's a very sketchy way to think about anything. Still, just confirms to me that it's not austin but marv we should be hanging tonight. Doesn't look like "very little reason to think he might flip scum" to me. | ||
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First of all, there's one post in Marv's filter that screams townie to me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=23#445 He's slightly suspicious of a bunch of people, and clearly put quite a bit of effort into the post. He's way too open, and I'd expect his scumplay to be a lot lazier, especially given his recent long string of scumgames. Now as for Palmar's case, here's what it hinges on: 1) Marv changed his posting style when he was called out 2) Marv is not encouraging people to read the thread objectively 3) Marv's self-aware OMGUS vote 4) Marv sheeping on some "bad logic" First off, I don't understand why 1 or 2 are scumtells. Pretty much anyone will change their posting style after being called out for it, town or scum. In addition, townies spin posts subjectively all the time - that's very common in townie D1 play. Number 3 is a null-tell to me. There's a very legitimate chance he was just in a bad mood. Number 4 can be scummy under the right conditions, but marv's posting otherwise (above) suggests that it's just him making observations rather than legitimately sheeping cases. Unless he keeps doing this later in the game (i'll probably be long dead by then, so someone better watch out for this), this is not a major tell on D1. | ||
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I have some discussion of Bluelightz meta on pages 40/41, check 'em out. He has recent town games in GSL mini and Normal Mini III. His most recent scumgame was Normal Mini II I believe. Great thing is, these are all minis just like this game | ||
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On September 21 2012 04:21 mkfuba07 wrote: To make sure I understand, are you pointing out that he admits his own reasoning is sketchy, but sticks with it anyway? In his latest post, he basically stated that there was a very little chance of austinmcc flipping scum, and he mentioned that he pointed it out previously. In the post that he does however, he's much more wishy-washy on his reasoning. He admits his reasoning is bad, and uses it more as a justification to lynch marv rather than saying austin isn't scum. There's no indication in that post that he things austin is townie and/or shouldn't get lynched. | ||
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On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote: I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. I agree with you partially, and I'm not suggesting that BL is 100% scum. However, there are a lot of other things in his filter that need to be looked at. Namely his "overkill' case against prplzh, as well as his complete absence of townie reads that are so common in his other town games. He hasn't been participating in discussion much at all, and his play seems remarkably clean for someone with a "crazy" town meta. Point is, I think that town really let him off the hook D1. He needs to be questioned, and he's blending in successfully. | ||
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Town: Marv (for reasons previously posted) BlazingHand (duh) Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me) Null-ish: Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her) mkfuba (leaning town for reasons posted in thread - too open with thought process) Mementoss (null) Hiro (nullz) austinmcc (nullzzzzz) scum: Bluelightz Palmar I'll try to work out some of those null reads before the deadline. Should have a half an hour or so before the deadline to work on things. | ||
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On September 21 2012 04:51 Mementoss wrote: Could you elaborate more why you think MKfuba is town? I think the fear he has with posting openly has clearly painted him scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=37#736 | ||
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On September 21 2012 04:58 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, what made you nullify your read on Mementoss? Seems to have a clear conscience. Didn't really get caught up in the accusations against him and continued to scumhunt. I'd actually lean town on him tbh. | ||
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On September 21 2012 04:57 Mementoss wrote: Before he made that post on austin though he made a much weaker one, his filter generally gives me a feel of him being scared to post then deciding to post later. The post on me was a different way of wording what other people have already said. Hard to tell though. Oh haha, it's funny cause I looked at his post on you again, and he actually answered the wrong question from marv. Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc, and he provided a read on you. No idea what it means, but worth noting. I'll have to do some more thinking on mkfuba. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote: Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc. "Absolutely!" "MMtoss is playing strange..." "I'll look at austin later" Wat? | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:16 marvellosity wrote: order of things to do: read things and THEN comment, rather than comment and find out it's been said Blah blah blah yeah yeah yeah... | ||
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Updated list: Town: Marv (for reasons previously posted) BlazingHand (duh) Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me) prplzh (owait.) Null-ish: Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her) Mementoss (leaning town for reasons posted in thread) austinmcc (slightly townie - effortz, townie response to case against him early) Hiro (nullz) iamperfection (sorta scummy, mostly his vote here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=27#526 - not sure if he's scumhunting or not) mkfuba (leaning scum) scum: Bluelightz Palmar Peace out folks | ||
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On September 21 2012 06:04 Mementoss wrote: well this is shit on 2 levels it doesn't confirm me town at all and i didn't hit scum. It doesnt? | ||
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SK's gonna claim vigi D1? Doubt it. | ||
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On September 21 2012 06:06 Mementoss wrote: Mafia should have 2 kp if 3 players or 1 kp SK and 1 kp mafia uh no? | ||
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To get things started. I've said all I've need to say, and he's my top scumread for now, with Palmar a close second. | ||
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Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot. ... Mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. Impressive stuff. This doesn't confirm him town by any means, but it's a solid read, and he really has no reason to establish a townie read so strongly as scum. | ||
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Since you're falling off Palmar a bit, any other compelling cases out there for you? Anyone you think worthy of a vote? | ||
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Town: Marv (Some long townie posts + too much :effort: for me to think he's scum) Mementoss (confirmed vigi) iamperfection (leaning town - too upfront about his own play, has this "doesn't give a fuck" attitude towards suspicion against him. Laughably "matter of fact" towards his own play.) Null-ish: Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me makes me lean town. A couple of posts in his filter I have to consider) Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her) Palmar (nullzzz/townie- solid read on mmtoss, though some scummy things in his filter) Hiro (nullz) austinmcc (nullzzzzz) scum: Bluelightz 'suppose I need to explain iamperfection a bit. There are just some things in his filter that scream town to me. i.e: On September 20 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote: I will follow the two guys I think are town. ## unvote ## vote austinmcc On September 20 2012 05:23 iamperfection wrote: I did you didn't like the explanation. And I'm starting to not like my explanation It's just so hillariously matter-of-fact. Also, his reaction to me and prplzh fucking up the mason claim looks really townie to me. | ||
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On September 21 2012 07:33 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims? It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him. | ||
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They're pretty null to me and I can't get a read either way. What say you? | ||
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On September 21 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote: Ok. Agree on your bold point quite a bit actually. Normally if scum decide to tunnel someone to look like they're contributing, that's all they do. Wanted to comment on this, because this is exactly what Bluelightz has been doing. The more I read through his meta, the more differences in mentality I see between this game and his townie games. Townie bluelightz likes looking for... for lack of better words... "townie idiosyncrasies." He finds little things that makes people townie/null/not-scum/whatever and it really influences his voting process. This gives other people the impression that he's a crazy/wild player due to his mentality. But when you look at this game, he's built two big cases against players. He's never declared a townie read, and he's been fairly tunnel-y. Look how clean his play is. Does that look like the wild townie Bluelightz "capable of doing anything" that you know? | ||
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... Again, I had the same exact feeling that ange was active around deadline, but the timing didn't match up. She had a lot of activity in the hour or two before the lynch, but she did NOTHING with the claims. She seemed more worried about iamperfection's vote that the claims themselves, as that's her only comment between asking if prplz could confirm hapa's mason claim and then commenting that she was waiting for the flip 3 minutes after deadline. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the bolded. | ||
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As you keep banging on about him, I decided to go back for myself at Normal Mini Mafia II. And the large problem I came across is that he was quite the opposite there. In fact I was somewhat shocked to see how involved he 'seemed'. If you want me to dig up examples I will, but I think his 'tunnelyness' here is more akin to, say GSL where he basically stuck on vader for two days, than NMM2, where he was on drwiggles, VE, Sinensis, and with other interactions besides. What say you? I really disagree with your assessment on his GSL play. Look at his read progression on Vaderseven: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#134 First mention (V7 = null). In this post he also asks a question to Drikzor and declares Zeph as a scum read. You notice how willing he is to read out to other happenings in the thread, and not just mention his #1 scumread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295 Opens saying that he things Kei is town. Then thinks that you (marv) is slightly scummy Then declares Zeph town Then declares V7 null http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=16#309 Votes V7, split between risen/V7 I don't know about you, but there's a huuuuuuge difference in mentality I'm seeing here. Look how willing he is to comment on other people in the thread. BL even declares his old scumread town (something he hasn't done with mementoss yet). Then look at BL this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=9#179 Large mementoss case. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=12#240 Tunnels mementoss, then drops him. Votes prplzh. does not declare mementoss town, null, or anything More tunneling of prplzh... and that's it. No other interactions. No townie reads. No null reads. No nothing. | ||
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Thanks. That's interesting, I'll think about it some. | ||
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On September 21 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote: You're ignoring my characterisation of his scumplay in NMM2, though, which is more pertinent. Well just wanted to clarify that he wasn't "stuck on v7 for two days" on D1 in GSL. He reached out to the thread a lot more. As for NMMII, what makes me hesitant to use his meta there is the fact it was a game 2 months ago. However, in that game as well, he's very reluctant to give townie reads. Also, this is the post that really got me making connections with his play in this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058¤tpage=27#532 In NMMII, he makes a similar "overkill" case against Sinesis when a bunch of players already have votes on him. Overall, his play in this game (particularly the prplzh case) and NMMII makes me think that he's forcing reads. Townie BL has no problem sheeping someone without a giant overkill case. | ||
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On September 21 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote: Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long. The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with Case I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there. "Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players. Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target. | ||
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I think it's a scumslip actually. This is the main thing I'm focusing on: On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote: Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting After the fail-claim, Ange is convinced that prplzh and I are scum. Her second post just doesn't make sense with this mentality. On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote: @iamperfection: What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". The fail-claim re-enforcing her read on prplzh should be fresh in her mind. Yet she doesn't even consider that iamperfection switched his vote for that reason. Instead, we get a giant diatribe on voting "responsibility." It should be really clear to "town Ange" why iamperfection switched his vote. Iamperfection switched after the fail-claim, and there's no reason that Ange should be suspicious of him. Nice catch Austin. ##Unvote Bluelightz ##Vote Ange777 Note, I still have my eye on Bluelightz | ||
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Am I off base here? Whaddy'a think? Ange's a good player, and this seems especially egregious for someone who is very logical. | ||
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If Ange flips green... well... not good for austin. | ||
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NULLNULLNULLNULLNULL jk. But seriously, thoughts on the Ange case? Also, your thoughts on Bluelightz (or anyone else you find scummy) would be cool to have. | ||
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1) That is a terrrrrible reason to think Iamperfection is scum. You think he's scum because JH shows a similar mentality as scum? I understand suspicion on meta, but suspicion based on another player's meta is wtf. I posted on iamperfection earlier, agree or disagree: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=46#906 And this leads to Ange777. From what I understand, her death would say a lot about imp. Also, you guys did an incredible job at checking ange's actions - we basically need her to explain stuff and see if she's coherent - and she looks really bad after that night I guess. I want to see what everyone has to say about ange. Please actually say something about ange before you ask other people to talk about ange. | ||
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On September 21 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote: @ Zeph NULLNULLNULLNULLNULL jk. But seriously, thoughts on the Ange case? Also, your thoughts on Bluelightz (or anyone else you find scummy) would be cool to have. Turns out I was joking. SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM | ||
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Bluelightz Palmar | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:40 marvellosity wrote: at least read my thoughts on his behaviour/meta and comment on it, Hapa. Have to run to class in a few minutes - hard to give an opinion without looking at his meta first. Be back in 2-3 hours. | ||
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Forget about Marv for a little bit. Explain to us why you think Ange could have made that mistake as town? Also, who are your scumreads right now? Marv and all, cool, but who else? | ||
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On September 22 2012 00:09 Palmar wrote: Hiro, then possibly bluelightz, or austinmcc, but austin I would rather not lynch right now. ange and zeph are much more in the null/leaning town territory. hapa, meme, iamperf are the guys I'm pretty sure are town. It's irrelevant, and sure I can make a case as to why I think Ange is town, but it's not going to be what you expect or what you want to hear. don't think I can today though. But we have plenty of time. The thing is... I just don't get this line of reasoning. It doesn't make sense. 1) It doesn't make sense that you think both HiroPro and Marv are scum. Marv could be bussing Hiro, but it's very unlikely they're both scum given Marv's opinions on Hiro over N1 and early D2. He specifically attacks Palmar for not providing reasoning on Hiro, then very obviously backtracked and now is reasonably convinced that Hiro is scum. Maybe one of them is scum, this is possible. But it's really unlikely that both are given Marv's actions. 2) Ange is null/leaning town. Cool. Just give us a reason. Any reason. | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:32 Palmar wrote: So let's say Ange gets lynched and flips town, are you going to try and lynch me for being useless. I don't think there's enough dumb players in this game. In fact, connecting an unrevealed lynch like that to me somehow is just reinforcing my belief that you should die today. You're basically already planning for the next move after Ange gets mislynched. Fuck that, I'm not allowing you to do that. ##Vote marvellosity @Restoftown: Here's a very simple reason for this vote. Marv just made a post where he's planning on how to proceed in the game without considering the results of his current plan right now, which is indicative of him having additional information that we don't have, ie already knowing how an Ange lynch will end. The bolded makes absolutely no sense. There are five people in the thread who think that Ange made a huge scumslip. Why wouldn't you move on and try to scumhunt? It's not like Ange is in here defending herself. This is an absolutely retarded reason to believe marv is scum. Why would a townie try to kick a player while they're not defending themselves? It makes no damn sense. | ||
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On September 22 2012 01:00 austinmcc wrote: I don't like marv/hiro scum either, but check marv's posts above. The change in stance is obvious, but the reasoning for the change is weak. I thought x meant he was town, now here's this one post and I think x means Hiro is scum. I mean marv could be scum, I just find it highly unlikely. Also, marv's point on Hiro is more of an overall meta argument than a single post. He's basically saying that Hiro is capable of making a longer post, in his scum meta, but his overall behavior is much more useless. I don't know if it's weak yet - haven't looked into it. I would like marv to elaborate more (specific filter examples) rather than telling us to look at someone's meta for specific behavior that we'll be prone to reading subjectively. | ||
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On September 22 2012 01:09 Mementoss wrote: I'm wondering if it's best for the town if we just settle this nonsense today. Marv vs Palmar If Ange comes in and defends herself decently, I could get behind that. | ||
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1. Mementoss's post's rather took my interest because he stood out out of the rest of teh people posting at the time, that't why I made my case on him, I took 10 quotes because I wanted to see how he posted after his original posting. DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST'S I QUOTED? Sure I wouldn't of made the case if Memen looked like he was contributing. 2. I didn't want to sheep, I always have my reasons for voting X or not voting Y. 3. How was I supposed to interact when I was sleeping when prplhz was on? Points #1 and #3 are fair, but Point #2 is one of my main issues. You shouldn't be concerned for giving your reasons for voting someone when there's a strong bandwagon on them. In your other games as town, you were very comfortable sheeping cases, or voting without detailing your reasoning. You bombing a semi-long case on prplzh when he had 4 votes on him was really odd, and IMO not something that should have crossed your mind if you largely agreed with the bandwagon on him. On my meta, I'm trying to NOT flood the town with 'useless' town reads, and keep them for when I need to defend them from a impending lynch, on the 'sure or not sure on reads' thing, I felt more confident with my choices on cases this game. This is odd to me. Why would you withhold information from the town. Waiting for a huge bandwagon to form on someone before you defend them is just strange. Why wouldn't you try to prevent that bandwagon/lynch in the first place by disclosing your town reads? Lastly, I'd like your comments on the Ange777 suspicions if possible. Any other reads you have would do. The more open, the better. | ||
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I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him. Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something. | ||
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If you're around, please reply to some of our questions. In particular, I want to know how a Hiro + Marv scumteam (that you're proposing) even makes sense. Lastly, if you want to defend Ange, post why. I don't care if you think we won't find your answer sufficient - it doesn't help us if you have a read that you're not willing to post. Honestly, detailed comments of any suspicions would be appreciated. | ||
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If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't. Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective: 1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped 2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar 3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread? There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation. | ||
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On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote: @Palmar: Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. On September 19 2012 00:07 Ange777 wrote: Mementoss did defend iamperfection whereas Palmar simply gave him town cred for apparentely no reason. But iamperfection himself had commented on Mementoss' defense so of course I am asking for his stance on Mementoss. ... You have shut down any discussion regarding Palmar's alignment. Ed note: directed at prplzh ...Why not? I don't like Palmar's style of just giving away all his reads without any single explanation other than to take his word for it. (But apparentely no one else is annoyed by this fact besides me.) I am perfectly fine with discussing new lynch targets but I need to know why someone proposes them to be lynched. ... I will probably check Palmar's filter once more later, furthermore I want to know where the lurkers like austin, Bluelightz, mkfuba07 and HiroPro have gone. Stop lurking and get in the game. There's much more, but the point is, Ange has been passively throwing suspicion at Palmar all game. She has constantly been doing this. If you think Ange is scum, it's incredibly unlikely that Palmar is scum. Scumbuddies just don't do this to each other. | ||
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Also, thoughts on Bluelightz? | ||
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On September 22 2012 03:04 Mementoss wrote: I would disagree, I think if anything this makes it more likely that ange and palmar would be scum together. Ange has been throwing suspicion at Palmar all game, without doing a fucking thing a bout it. Thats a main point of my case on her, appearing useful through these points and questions, but really not having a purpose behind any of them, is scum motivation. They don't need a purpose they have the answers. Can you honestly say that these things ange said affected Palmar in any way whatsoever>? That's a fair point. I will say that Palmar defending Ange (if they're both scum) is a bit odd, considering how "obvious" the scumslip is. Honestly, I just think that this thing on Palmar's coming together a bit too easily. | ||
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Now I don't see how this makes sense from a scum-objective standpoint. If he just believed that prplzh was town near the gallows deadline, I'd find that scummy. But he's not. He's going out of his way to establish townie reads (and rather accurately so far). His only confirmed mistake thusfar is mkfuba, and that's something everyone got wrong. Is it possible that this is scum motivated? Yah sure, I mean scum have alignments of every player. But him going out of his way to establish multiple players as town isn't what I'd expect scum to do. Plus, if he and Ange were scum, from what marv is saying, he'd pretty much auto-bus her, especially after including her in a scumlist yesterday. I really want to hear what he has to say about Ange. | ||
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On September 22 2012 04:55 marvellosity wrote: yeah, you're just falling into the trap of being confused by his games. Pretty annoying to watch actually. I want Palmar dead more than I want Ange dead right now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmar Confused, yes. No reason to think he's scum though. As far as I'm concerned, Ange made a scumslip, and Palmar has D2 and D3 to prove his alignment one way or the other. | ||
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On September 22 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote: You should be voting for Palmar. Everyone should. Probably Ange and Palmar are both mafia, but Palmar is way more of a threat. The discussion of the last few pages demonstrates that enough Oh come on. Palmar isn't a threat. | ||
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The way I see it, there's still a chance Palmar will flip town. Palmar to my knowledge is capable of doing some scummy shit as town (DeathNote Mini comes to mind). I don't see how Ange will flip town at all. | ||
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Palmar (1) - Marv Marv (1) - Palmar Ange777 (1) - Everyone Else | ||
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Palmar (1) - Marv Marv (1) - Palmar Ange777 (lots) - Everyone Else Hasn't voted: Bluelightz + Ange | ||
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@ Ange777 I don't think you've addressed the most incriminating point against you yet - the clear contradictions between your pre-lynch mentality and your case on iamperfection. Firstly, this quote: On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote: Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting At this point you clearly thing prplzh is scum for the reasons of the fail-claim (as posted in your first defense post). The problem is, there's no reason for you to suspect iamperfection for his vote. Pre-lynch, your comment on iamperfection's vote is fine. However post-lynch, there's a huge contradiction in your mentality: On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote: Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. Firstly, there's no reason you should be suspicious of iamperfection for his fakevote due to your comments on the prplzh fake-claim. As you have stated, prplzh's fake-claim is the thing that re-affirmed your scumread on him. Problem is, you show a complete ignorance of this mentality when attacking iamperfection. It's pretty clear that iamperfection switched his vote for the same reason that you re-affirmed your read on prplzh. Despite the supposedly similar mentalities, you show a complete unawareness of this when attacking iamperfection. It should have been obvious to you why he switched his vote. It reads like you are forcing suspicions, and this disconnect in your mentality reinforces this. Now as for the bolded part, it just makes no damn sense. As marv said earlier, why hypothetical scum iamperfection try to get town cred for jumping on prplhz? Scum iamperfection would have known that prplzh was town. This makes 0% sense, and is more evidence for me that you're forcing cases/suspicion on players. It also doesn't help that the overall post is just terrible analysis. You seem to be more ticked off at iamperfection for "voting responsibility" rather than actual scummy behavior. A townie switching his vote after a huge fail-claim is pretty normal (and obvious), yet for some reason you're completely oblivious to it. I'm interested in hearing your response, but I can't think of any town-mentality for your suspicions on iamperfection. I will say that if you can't convince the town, dump your reads on as many players as you can, Right now, you're relentlessly tunneling iamperfection (and mementoss for a while... lol?). If you refuse to provide detailed reads on other players, I promise you will get lynched tomorrow. | ||
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If you refuse to provide detailed reads on other players, I promise you will get lynched tomorrow. | ||
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On September 22 2012 13:33 Bluelightz wrote: Point #2: I don't feel comfortable simply sheeping because it's probably my fault for being fingered for "Oh he only sheeped he might be scum", I don't like to sheep because of that. Other point: Flooding the thread with my town reads aren't that useful if they're not the person being discussed, and that if I just flood the thread with town reads people will finger me for "He's only spouting town reads, he's not scum hunting kill him!" TL;DR Don't like leaving things to chance Ange777 will come after reading the thread. Now normally I view these things as mafia-mentality. I don't know why a townie would be scared of making reads because people would point fingers or be suspicious of them. I see these defensive impulses as mafia traits. However, as many of you have stated, this is Bluelightz. Is he capable of this as town? I honestly don't think so, since he's normally pretty reckless/carefree as town. | ||
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Palmar's putting in :effort: and I actually agree with him quite a bit on Hiro not pushing his lynches. Hiro wanted to lynch me at one point, but gave it up way too easily without pushing it at all. I'll be mulling things over. #1, I don't want to lynch Palmar. Still not sure about Ange. | ||
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##Vote HiroPro | ||
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While we're at it, why is Hiro scum again? I'm mainly sheeping at this point. Palmar and marv have posts about him. Hiro's playing more carefully than his town meta and has been largely useless. He also built a huge-ass case on me and came off it for very little reason (without pushing it) to lynch austin. | ||
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On September 23 2012 04:58 HiroPro wrote: I didn't push my case on hapa because there was no one who actually seemed willing to vote for him. You've also been pretty fucking useless all game. | ||
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That's just what marv said, summarizing his point. But point me to one useful thing you've done all game. | ||
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On September 23 2012 05:02 HiroPro wrote: Yes because "being useful" is such an amazing indicator of whether someone is scum or not. Go read my filter, it's clear you haven't. I have. Point me to one useful thing you've done all game. The only "case" you've made you immediately sheeped off because no one was voting for me. That's a pretty bullshit reason when you thought I was scum. So please, point me to one useful thing you've done. If you can't, now's the time to start. | ||
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He sheeped Ange, then switched to Palmar for no explanation. All the while, he hasn't given a hard opinion on any other player in the game. It doesn't help that he switched off his main scumread (me) after building a case on me just because no one wanted to vote me. Didn't push his case at all. | ||
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As for Ange, I'm still leaning scummy on her, but I can see situations where she flips town. Her play is illogical for sure, but it could be confirmation bais. I can see a townie doing that, and I agree with Palmar's read. Hiro coming in and being willing to switch between Palmar and Ange devoid of reasoning makes me think they're both town. | ||
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But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there. | ||
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On September 23 2012 05:22 austinmcc wrote: Ange was accurate D1 in the game I replaced in for her. Maybe XVI? Something. Thread was mislynching, she had been afk for most of D1. She came in, rallied troops, found scum, wrote case, pushed, lynched scum. D1. Then replaced out, I came in, and eventually lost the game because I was dumb. qqqqqqqqqqqqq I only saw Ange in XXII (nominated for best town play btw). In that game, she really did work on D3/D4, but not so much on the first two days. I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads. He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack. | ||
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On September 23 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: He's not actually PUSHING hiro. He gave his read, but that's it. There's no forward motion or anything, he just drops Hiro scummy at the start of the day, and then drops reasoning RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH. I think that's fair. Admittedly, one of the reasons I have a semi-town read on Palmar is because of GoodKarma's filter. I have a meta read on GK's filter - GK is more confrontational in the early game as scum, and more passive as town. Is Palmar confusing me? Yes. However, I do think he's telling the truth about Hiro either way. | ||
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Really want Hiro dead though. | ||
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who's here? Speak up if you're in the thread. | ||
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##Vote Palmar | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Palmar | ||
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On September 23 2012 05:57 iamperfection wrote: people should know that with hapa shanigans like this can happen need to be here. nobody have phones? Tee hee hee. | ||
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On September 23 2012 06:18 prplhz wrote: >_< redflip =O | ||
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Good stuff Palmar, but not good enough =P | ||
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Guys. Bluelightz? Still think he's scum, can someone comment on this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=59#1171 Also: On September 22 2012 13:45 Bluelightz wrote: On Ange777, I like the points against Ange, I don't like that Ange made one case on prplhz, then made another, with the points, it's just recycling bullshit. Right now, Palmar seems more scummy to me then Ange (but willing to switch if need be) because Seriously? Palmar's a vet but I don't think he can go down this low, I think the unexplained list is self-evident of why it's bad. Additionally, This post: Unexplained stuff all across the board! Then he thinks Ange IS town but refuses to disclose why HE thinks Ange is town. Lastly, I view Palmar's tunneling of marv only to be viewed as "doing something" (read: scumhunting). ##Vote: Palmar On September 23 2012 00:56 Bluelightz wrote: Also, this is before I go off for the night: ##Unvote ##Vote: Ange777 Don't think having my vote on Palmar will help later on during the last minute mess. | ||
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I'll be dumping my reads in an hour or so, weeeee. | ||
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HiroPro His D2/N2 play should tell you all you need to know about his alignment. I have no idea why he's so uncooperative. He shouldn't be this pissy after we lynched scum D2. The thing that gets me his response to him getting tunneled near the D2 deadline. It's the complete opposite reaction to his town-aligned play in Death Note Mini, where he was much more resistant and upset when I was tunneling him. I will say that we should be interested to see if he's willing to contribute on D3. He might just be in a bad mood for all I know, but if he doesn't contribute, he should be the first to get lynched. Bluelightz I hope someone takes a look at Bluelightz. I'll just quote what I said before: @ Anyone On September 22 2012 13:33 Bluelightz wrote: Point #2: I don't feel comfortable simply sheeping because it's probably my fault for being fingered for "Oh he only sheeped he might be scum", I don't like to sheep because of that. Other point: Flooding the thread with my town reads aren't that useful if they're not the person being discussed, and that if I just flood the thread with town reads people will finger me for "He's only spouting town reads, he's not scum hunting kill him!" TL;DR Don't like leaving things to chance Ange777 will come after reading the thread. Why is Bluelightz so scared of having suspicion on him? He doesn't want to post town reads because he's scared that people will point fingers at him. This is the complete opposite of townie Bluelightz play. Blueightz in his town meta isn't scared of having suspicion against him - he just posts semi-coherent stuff and is largely carefree. Austinmcc I'm less sold on Austin being scum. Overall he's pretty open with his stances on players. His inconsistencies seem more townie than scummy. The big reason I think he's town is due to his actions near the D2 deadline. If he was scum, he should have been more willing to lynch Hiro. Scum Austin would have known Palmar was scum. Regardless of Hiro's alignment, it was good for him to support the Hiro lynch. If Hiro was town, austin would me more willing to switch on him to save a buddy. If Hiro was scum, austin probably also would want to switch on Hiro to give him towncred for swinging a lynch on a scum player. Ange777 Ange is playing pretty terribly, and I don't know what to make of it. Her D2 contribution is nonexistent, and she's clearly been away from the game and/or busy for whatever reason. If she doesn't step up D3, I'd consider lynching her over Hiro or Bluelightz. Everyone else I have a townread on. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:20 marvellosity wrote: if you were really clever you wouldn't have announced that Realized shortly after I posted. It was automatic. Oh wellz. | ||
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1) Mafia is using the NK to point the town to other targets, faking an "overconfidence NK." Most likely methinks. 2) Less likely, but marv is mafia and used the NK to buy towncred. He needs an excuse to be alive in three days, and is planning on killing me and mementoss back to back. Again, I'd expect him to NK iamperfection in this case. 3) Mafia hit the SK last night. SK hit austin. Interesting possibility, but s00per unlikely. | ||
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Pretty sure Marv is telling the truth, but just in case. | ||
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Real problem is the last scum. Ange or Bluelightz? | ||
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I'm kinda leaning more towards Ange in light of Palmar's antics on D2. Establishing Ange as town and pretty much doing everything to paint himself scummy only really makes sense if Ange was red. Palmar could have not posted and Ange would've gotten lynched no question. He's confused me once, so I dunno how reliable that is... | ||
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If you're scum, keep it up. Fine job. | ||
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On September 24 2012 07:50 HiroPro wrote: It's not even 6 pm, so why would I sleep. And the Eagles are playing like complete trash lol. So yes, I am slightly tilted. But you guys are ignoring the most important thing that happened and treating me like confirmed scum when I'm not. Hiro. Palmar painting you as scum is not alignment indicative. Secondly, the only analysis you've done was against confirmed townies. Walk away from the keyboard for an hour, and help us hunt scum. Wanting to lynch an SK is not pro-town. It's pro-stupid. | ||
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Big thing is this: On September 23 2012 02:05 Ange777 wrote: Someone asked for my reads. I can't elaborate them in detail as I really don't have much time this weekend but if you let me survive I am more than willing to explain them in detail. iamperfection > still leaning scum marvellosity > null/town Zephirdd > scummy Mementoss (vigi) > scummy semi-confirmed town bluelightz > lurker/sheeper > null/scummy Palmar > scum Hapahauli > town HiroPro > lurker > null/scummy austinmcc > town The mementoss thing is just scummy as shit. The austinmcc thing also shows that she thinks austin is pretty strongly town, and thus the NK makes sense from her perspective. | ||
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##Vote Ange777 Yeah yeah like I know what Hiro's doing, but there's no way Ange777 is flipping town. For emphasis: Mementoss (vigi) > scummy semi-confirmed town He is the vigi... But he's scummy... But he's also semi-confirmed town. Uh-huh. | ||
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My vote could be on either for all I care. ##Unvote ##Vote HiroPro (I love being able to say that without people being suspicious of me =D) | ||
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No not really, I think Ange is scummy for my own reasons. Look at what I posed last page - it should be pretty clear. Also, I think Hiro is scum. | ||
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On September 24 2012 08:25 iamperfection wrote: we can still make fun of it for you after the game. Mason claim never forget. I will remember that until the day i die. That was so not my fault >> | ||
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On September 23 2012 02:05 Ange777 wrote: Someone asked for my reads. I can't elaborate them in detail as I really don't have much time this weekend but if you let me survive I am more than willing to explain them in detail. iamperfection > still leaning scum marvellosity > null/town Zephirdd > scummy Mementoss (vigi) > scummy semi-confirmed town bluelightz > lurker/sheeper > null/scummy Palmar > scum Hapahauli > town HiroPro > lurker > null/scummy austinmcc > town | ||
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On September 24 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote: why is it so bad? Because she thinks that mementoss is a scummy semi-confirmed townie? On top of that, she explicitly labels him as the vigi. With her pushing iamperfection (for questionable reasons), it makes me think she's pushing mislynches rather than being an SK or townie or something. As a side note, If there's an SK, it's Bluelightz for sure. | ||
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On September 24 2012 09:48 Mementoss wrote: Also I don't get it. Why wouldn't you announce being roleblocked. The more information town has the better right? Scum roleblocker is dead, therefore claiming lets mafia know that there's a JK somewhere. | ||
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<3 | ||
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On September 24 2012 20:26 Ange777 wrote: Hey guys, I'm back. I've got a lot of reading to do. Where d'ya go? It's uncharacteristic for you to be gone all weekend without any warning to say the least. [Quote]I think HiroPro is town or at least not scummy enough to warrant a vote. Details to come later.[Quote] Unfortunately, no. | ||
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Im not arguing, Im trying to show him why he is wrong. I don't necessarily think hes scum and I think hes caught in something that is making him look horrible. Yeah I took some funtimes this morning in my wheaties. It's pretty clear that Hiro is deliberately trolling at this point. The SK case is so far off from what Hiro is capable of doing as town. Seriously, he wants to lynch the SK and not scum - should be pretty clear what his alignment is. You did read Hiro's case right? It largely reads as a troll-joke, and it made me giggle. | ||
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Also, I'm interested in hearing some of your updated reads - particularly on Hiro, iamperfection, bluelightz, and mementoss. | ||
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Mementoss brought up some really interesting points on Zeph. I'll have to look at that. @ Ange Thanks for providing your reads, but they are far from detailed and I hope you catch up soon. That being said... ... Mementoss I am not sold on his town-alignment. I really didn't like the way he nitpicked my filter and tried to accuse me of scummy behaviour when he himself did the exact same thing. I have not read anything that made me think he's townie yet. Stop it. I know you're better than this. There is a 0.1% chance that Mementoss is not town. You keep calling him scummy, but you never once addressed the significance of his claim, or how a non town-aligned player could pull that off. Him "nitpicking" your filter doesn't make him scummy. Inconsistency doesn't make him scummy (remember JingleHell in XXII). Fact is, that you're behaving really scummy, and it's not scummy to attack a scummy player. Regarding Bluelightz Not the most stellar analysis, but there's effort at least. I'll comb through his responses a bit more this afternoon. | ||
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@ Ange Still waiting... @ Ange Thanks for providing your reads, but they are far from detailed and I hope you catch up soon. That being said... Stop it. I know you're better than this. There is a 0.1% chance that Mementoss is not town. You keep calling him scummy, but you never once addressed the significance of his claim, or how a non town-aligned player could pull that off. Him "nitpicking" your filter doesn't make him scummy. Inconsistency doesn't make him scummy (remember JingleHell in XXII). Fact is, that you're behaving really scummy, and it's not scummy to attack a scummy player. You cast idle suspicion on Mementoss without even considering his claim. Address his claim, then tell me if you're not convinced of his alignment. @ Marv Well I largely agree with you that Ange is scum, but not for those reasons. Her tunneling prplzh as opposed to another player can be both alignments. The real issue is her sudden drop in activity after austinmcc called out her slip, as well as her really lackluster play since the start of D3. Have to say that I'm feeling slightly better about Bluelightz since he's trying a bit. He's far and away my #2 lynch candidate after Ange though. But that's a discussion for D4. | ||
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On September 26 2012 03:33 Mementoss wrote: You said you were going to comment on Zephridd, thoughts? But yeah hopefully hiro flips scum or what a useless day. Ange or Zephridd last scum. Worst thing about ange is the drop in activity after day 2 suspicion on her. Kinda want to wait until the Hiro flip. If Hiro flips SK or something, Zeph will take some looking. To be honest, I'm just very convinced that Hiro/Ange are the scumteam, which is making me a bit lazy. | ||
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On September 26 2012 05:24 Mementoss wrote: hopefully ghost isnt playing borderlands 2 lol Wellll shit. Looks like it may be a 96 hour day... | ||
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On September 26 2012 05:54 ghost_403 wrote: hey. > No time to do flavor at the moment, but it's gonna involve HiroPro acting like a lunatic and accusing Marv of being a teenage popstar wannabe. Seven minutes til deadline! Lies ghost. Lies. | ||
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I'll get to my reads sometime tonight (or tomorrow), but my voting decisions tomorrow will be heavily influenced by how willing unconfirmed townies are to provide original analysis. Also: @ Ange What's with your activity level? You're much more active in your other town games, and you mentioned you'd be more available after the weekend. | ||
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That being said, it's useless to speculate until we see the results - the SK pretty much has to reveal his hand tonight with town this far in the lead. That being said, I'm convinced that the last scum is Ange777 for a couple of reasons.
However, I think HiroPro's ragequit and voting actions on D2 show that Ange777 is the 3rd scum. Hiro shows a remarkable apathy towards the lynch on D2, which to me shows that both of his scumbuddies were on the chopping block. Furthermore, Hiro's ragequit/tilt doesn't make much sense unless he was legitimately frustrated by scum's position in the game. This shows to me that scum #3 was not in good standing at the time of his ragequit, and that scum is likely Ange777 (possibly Bluelightz, but most likely Ange). | ||
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Ange777 ...for all the reasons I've spammed for the last few days Bluelightz I know marv disagrees, but I'm pretty convinced he's the SK. He's been playing largely pro-town, but slightly off. He seems to be playing not to get lynched rather than only to hunt scum, which IMO is consistent with SK mentality. As I've pointed out previously in my filter, he's not making town reads this game because he doesn't want people to point fingers at him. This could be considered a scumtell, but since Ange is far and away my top read, I believe Bluelightz is the SK. ...and that's it! Zeph seems pretty townie for his mega confirmation bias case against me earlier. Iamperfection seems townie for reasons I have mentioned in the thread ("matter of factness"). GL surviving the night, and I hope we hear from marv in the next couple of minutes. | ||
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##Vote Ange777 | ||
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Bluelights not wanting to die convinced me he was SK or something =/ | ||
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On September 27 2012 07:13 iamperfection wrote: enough of this we all know what we really want to hear. how did it happen hapa? Prplzh talked about it in the obs QT a bit, but basically it was a miscommunication. I didn't save the IRC logs, but he said he was going to fake-claim vigi, then I mentioned sometime after that that I was just going to claim mason to save him. He said something along the lines of "yes," and I thought he had agreed to the mason claim. ...and then stuff happened. T_T But I was just really busy that day and got home right before the lynch deadline. Would have ideally claimed much much earlier if I was available. | ||
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On September 27 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote: Good game everyone! I had fun. Town played quite well, but I can't believe you guys were always up on Bluelightz' ass. Bluelightz gonna Bluelightz. Yah lesson learned. His play was a lot more controlled than in his other games - really threw me off. | ||
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