EPTlet me think
is he bussing me? or am I town? shitting things up is totally a mafia motive
GSL Open Mini Mafia - Page 43
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
let me think is he bussing me? or am I town? shitting things up is totally a mafia motive | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:14 marvellosity wrote: that was the clean version What are your thoughts on the people in this game? Activity levels are always a constant harping of mine, and there was a horrible mislynch d2 b/c of it (hilarious to me, but I mean I would have lynched him too without his claim due to activity/promises of it that weren't delivered/his d1 stuff), but anything else? I just think there's a serious problem with how towns on TL play. It's like half the people try to play as scummy as possible. Is this b/c they don't want to be night killed? The point is to win, not to live until the end of the game. It makes being scum extremely fun, though. I haven't lost as scum yet, because it's so easy to take advantage of. Marv hasn't lost as scum, either! Town didn't even manage to win Death Note mafia, which was one of the most town stacked games I think I've ever seen rofl. Is that what hosts are going to be forced to do to give town a fighting chance on TL? Should hosts start purposefully balancing around bad towns? I think this is a real issue. I think this setup was really well balanced. Three town mislynches and two night kills with only two scum should result in a scum victory, and it did. However, with what I've seen since I started playing mafia, scum wins a lot. A LOT. To me this says imbalanced setups favoring scum, or bad towns. Looking at the setups and I think they're more often town favored than scum favored, so.... Or maybe it's confirmation bias. If so let me know. On September 14 2012 11:15 Blazinghand wrote: I'm also addressing Risen. Got it. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
If you're a townie getting lynched Day 1, you have to look at yourself and not just look at the town voting you, whether they are being bad or not. Otherwise the whole vader issue was just quite unfortunate. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Oh, and your reaction fishing didn't work because I knew what reaction you were expecting. It might have worked if you hadn't made the same argument in Not Themed and Dwarfs, though  | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:27 marvellosity wrote: This game was actually quite close despite the final result, imo. If you're a townie getting lynched Day 1, you have to look at yourself and not just look at the town voting you, whether they are being bad or not. Otherwise the whole vader issue was just quite unfortunate. I think it says more about how townies sheeped someone b/c they're lazy just to get a lynch than anything else. Edit: I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again. Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed scum b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory. It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 11 2012 07:06 Keirathi wrote: Yea, I'm really liking the prplhz lynch now. I gave him the BotD because marv seemed convinced that he was too active and interested to be scum, and the other cases today had merit as well. How long before we stop giving his terrible play the BotD and hold him accountable for the scummy shit he's done? I don't think my chances of winning were any less after the medic was dead, and the cop was outed, in 2-1 LYLO compared to 3-2. But someone shot me down again, and proposed lynched BL instead, so I rolled with it. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote: There's a reason some people almost never get lynched, Risen. And it's not just because they luck out with getting towns not voting for them. You're right. If I just lurk like everyone else from now on I won't get lynched. But that's not how a townie should play, is it. I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again. Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed town b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory. It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though. You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:43 Risen wrote: You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. No. No, no, no. There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Part of the issue is that, imagine prplhz flipped D1: Kei would almost certainly be lynched in the following days because of his reaction to prplhz/risen. Right up until about 6 hours from the end of D1 I thought town was going to have an overwhelming victory. After the unfocused risen lynch (which generated less info due to the confusion in the second half of D1 than it should have), D2 was lurky and dominated by a V7 lynch that was a result of a player going inactive. I don't consider the V7 lynch to be town's fault really. D3 the Bluelightz lynch was a natural progression after almost no progress was made D1+2. The players most familiar with his meta were dead, and Dirk never spoke up to really defend him. Prplhz was on many players' scumlists, and if he flipped Kei would be more susceptible to being found out. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:45 Keirathi wrote: No. No, no, no. There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3. That's very WIFOM. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:41 Risen wrote: You're right. If I just lurk like everyone else from now on I won't get lynched. But that's not how a townie should play, is it. I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again. Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed town b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory. It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion. I thought Dirk played just fine. Even if BL got lynched day 2, then Dirk was looking quite decent to me. prplhz would definitely die day 3, and then it's between Kei and Dirk. Obviously Kei has the edge there, but for example after BL flips town day 2, I'm looking at prplhz + someone else, and I don't know who that someone else is. It's either Dirk or Kei, and with townreads on both they both have to be looked at. So it was all still quite possible, and that's without a prplhz lynch day 2 which might have been possible too. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
it's not just WIFOM. I won my newbie game (as town) by "wifoming" over night kills, and the thing was the argument was totally compelling. Night kill shit isn't just wifom. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:51 marvellosity wrote: it's not just WIFOM. I won my newbie game (as town) by "wifoming" over night kills, and the thing was the argument was totally compelling. Night kill shit isn't just wifom. You're right. Night kills usually wouldn't be WIFOM in my mind, unless it left only 3 people alive with one person confirmed town. On September 14 2012 11:51 Keirathi wrote: But it's the truth. The status quo was that one of the two of us would be killed. Zeph because he was confirmed, or me because everyone had a town read on me and was extremely active. Both of us living through the night would have immediately sent up red flags, IMO. See above. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments. But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. From Zeph's perspective: BL can't let any check go through b/c he knows it will return opposite to me. So now he has to RB me from now on. BL gets lynched. Well I had to RBd every night just in case I checked the person who happened to be scum. How is this telling about you at all? | ||
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