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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
All this debate... makes my read.... stay the same. lol keirathi, you must have nothing interesting to do if you wasted so much brain cells arguing like that  a hint, when bluelightz includes too many exclamation marks on his posts, means he is laughing hard outside of his computer. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 14 2012 06:59 prplhz wrote: yea i'm not really sold on bluelightz being scum convenient. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 14 2012 05:58 Zephirdd wrote: lol keirathi, you must have nothing interesting to do if you wasted so much brain cells arguing like that I was just bored. Rather argue with him than keep lurking until the flip | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
 F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5 | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
End Game ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O27Gsl.png) Artosis continued to sit and wonder what was happening. He could barely understand it. Another casualty to the cheese. The prestigious Round of 5 had been reached, and the cheeser still hadn't been found. So close to the truth, and yet he couldn't find it. He pushed onwards, developing his notes in secret and talking with IMNesTea, whose help had been invaluable in his investigation. John the Translator helped them as he could, though his work necessarily meant he couldn't always be there. Still, with google translate the two progamers could communicate well enough, and they'd narrowed down their list a great deal. Finally, all the pieces fit. Hours and hours of work. He can't tell NesTea, though. He can't tell anyone-- not with how things were. He has to take action himself. Artosis walks down the hall, searching furtively for a Gom Employee to talk to. Someone, anyone who speaks english. He realized the common factor between all the cheesing incidents. That common factor was John the Translator. The bastard had been cheesing people while helping him and NesTea investigate. They'd trusted him, and in doing so had been burned. Badly. Suddenly, he turns a corner and found himself face-to-face with BitByBitPrime.WE. "Excuse me", Artosis begins, but suddenly his mouth is full of cheese and grease and oil and he's choking. The cheese is covering him, and he can't move or inhale. He screams, crying for help. HayprO came running around the corner, and seeing what was happening, leaped into action to help his friend. He was to slow, though, or perhaps BitByBitPrime.WE was just too fast. After a quick exchange of blows, the foreign zerg was knocked flat by the korean terran. As he fell unconscious, he heard laughter. John, IMNesTea, IMMvp were all cheering on his opponent. He left consciousness knowing he was alone, and that he had failed the progamers. The cheesers had won. GomTV was soon no more. With only cheese to watch, teamliquid.net turned its attention to other tournaments. The Sc2 proscene dried up and was soon pushed out by Farmville, which is now the chief eSport among competitive gamers everywhere. Time passes, and times change. RTS is no longer viable, because all that ever was in the proscene was cheese. Days become weeks, and weeks become years, and the history and mythos of BW and Sc2 fade into legend, and then beyond all written knowledge. teamliquid.net is the #1 resource and community group for Farmville, and Sc2 is but a faint memory that still glows fondly in some old hearts. Bluelightz as Liquid`HayprO the Progamer has been eliminated! Dirkzor as IMMvp the Progamer has been endgamed! Zephirdd as IMNesTea the once and future king has been endgamed! Keirathi as BitByBitPrime.WE the legend is victorious! prplhz as John the Cheeslator is victorious! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
thanks to hosts wp kei, top job | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/MiWLayQpkMYvj Will be posting notes later today. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
This was my first scum game, and I had a lot of fun. Some post-game thoughts: 1) I don't think I did anything particularly amazing this game. I just focused on not making any obvious mistakes, and looking better than any potential lynch targets. 2) It was really dumb of me not to notice Zeph's crumb n1. I was talking with marv a bit about it after he died, and I think I realized why I didn't catch it. As weird as it sounds, I literally played this whole game with the mindset that I was town. I scoured filters, checked meta, did whatever I needed to do to make a case. I even caught myself a few times thinking "So, if so-and-so flips scum, I can link him to so-and-so." The good thing (for me), was that playing like that made my meta pretty similar to my town meta, IMO (which could be bad, in hindsight. I might start getting mislynched as town now!). The side effect to that town mentality, was that when I read Zeph's crumb post, I had the exact same reaction that Ange had: I marked it down as something scummy that I could use to pressure him. I spent more time reading posts from the context of "What's scummy about this?" than I did from the mindset of "Why would a townie say that?". I did specifically go back and look through all the night posts for a medic crumb, but Zeph's post still didn't stick out. Really bad of me, but thankfully it didn't come back to bite me in the ass. 3) Not RB'ing anyone n1 was extremely risky, and probably a bad decision 9 times out of 10. But I didn't have any blue reads, and I still thought of everyone alive as lynch bait and didn't want to give them even the smallest amount of town cred with a claim that they were RB'd. 4) RB claim might buy someone BotD for a day, but when it's LYLO you really need to go back and evaluate if they were lying about it. But by that point, I already had enough town cred and influence built up, that Zeph (and marv, FWIW) came to the conclusion that I wasn't lying. 5) Something I'm mildly suprised no one picked up on: I called Risen out day 1 for having 6 people (out of 8) as part of his "Lynch order list". Except, during N1, I made a case on 3 people (prplhz, Zeph, and vader), and had pressure posts against marv and BL, too. So, I had varying degrees of cases on 5 out of the 7 people who were alive besides me. 6) Risen: any copying of your opinions was honestly entirely unintentional 7) vader being medic was extremely unfortunate for you guys. Basically the whole setup revolved around the medic  If vader hadn't been the medic, or marv (who I was still planning to shoot n2), me and prplhz would have been in a pickle. I was honestly worried we were going to lose the game up until vader claimed medic.Oh, and: On September 12 2012 06:31 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor, I too have. On this kind of setup, using a roleblock on a town player will not only confirm the setup for players but also make that player look good. However, Keirathi would deserve a mafia player of the century if his play so far was made from a scum perspective in my opinion. He's been constructive, he's been making ton of sense, and he's been showing a lot of stuff other town players don't realize. Hell, I'd argue I would have been roleblocked if he was scum, because he noticed my breadcumb really early. Besides, it's not hard to imagine that he would be a blue if you think of his day 1 play. I had a green read on him at least, and instantly thought he was telling the truth when claiming RB. That made me chuckle. Thanks <3 GG again, and look forward to playing with you guys more! | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Setup: Type A (1 goon, 1 rb + 1 parity cop, 1 doctor + 5 townies) Randomized roles: goon: 9 (prplhz) rb: 3 (keirathi) parity cop: 2 (zephirdd) Doctor: 1 (vaderseven) Setup summary: vaderseven: HopeTorture (Doc) Zephirdd: NesTea (Parity Cop) Keirathi: BitByBitPrime.WE (Mafia RB) Risen: Progamer (VT) Bluelightz: Progamer (VT) Ange777: Progamer (VT) Marvellosity: Progamer (VT) Dirkzor: Progamer (VT) prplhz: Cheeser (Mafia Goon) Host Note: I'm sad we didn't roll a setup with a BoxeR in it, but that's just how it goes. The possibility of BoxeRs should still have an impact on the game, and scum tactics at the start at least. Day 1 Note: Keirathi seemed very eager to get started. At this moment, scum know the setup is either A (Doc, Cop) or B (2x BoxeR) and town knows nothing. I wonder how the possible presence of the BoxeRs will affect the D1 discussions? Also, it seems like a pretty solid game. I really like the lineup. Some new players, like Keirathi and Ange777, who both played well in NMMXXII, and some older players like vaderseven and marvellosity who can be dangerous as both scum and town. Ordinarily I'd be worried about a doc/cop setup in a 9-player mini but with the nerfed cop role (requires scumhunting to work) and the non-conseq doc I am less worried. Mafia also has an RB so even if it's a bit town-favored hopefully it's not too much. Risen is so right on the money with his case against prplhz it's kinda preposterous. If I were in the game with him I wouldn't believe him, but from out here it's kinda amazing he caught scum when literally like 2 people had posted. Still, there's no way to know how sure he is. His argument is very flimsy, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. Marv seems to be of this opinion. ----- As an aside, I really hope that Keirathi miraculously pulls of a scum win if prplhz is lynched. A D1 lynch for town with a doctor AND a cop alive is spectacularly powerful. Luckily for him, Keirathi has 2 nights to find the cop since he's a parity cop, but even if everything goes perfectly, he needs to secure two mislynches just to get to LYLO. ;_; you can do it buddy ----- interestingly, Risen is right on the money with his thoughts on Keirathi and prplhz. If he can keep on prodding them and getting responses eventually the others should get on board, but Keirathi is doing good job of making him look bad/worse first. Things are looking better for scum overall. ----- It's interesting that there are several players who are right on the money (and Ange777 seems to have collected several important clues and tells from what she's written in-thread) about the scum, but nobody is sure yet. I don't think prplhz has actually slipped that badly other than being unhelpful in a relatively quite game, but Keirathi has tipped his hand a bit. 7/2 is a tough setup for scum since town gets 2 mislynches, and scum got unlucky and rolled the doc/cop setup (though they don't know that yet). I'm glad both of the blue roles are nerfed in this game, but even so a D1 scumlynch makes it really really hard for the last scum to win. It seems certain that with just a bit of leadership from Marv or Ange777 this will turn into a landslide for town. ----- Co-Host Note: Risen sticking to his guns like this is the absolute best thing that can happen for the town right now. Regardless of who ends up lynched, most of the day1 discussion will be surrounding them. Scum are being forced to take positions early instead of settling in to a safe routine. If Risen is allowed to live through to day2 things will only become more dire for the scumteam. But getting rid of him isn't the answer either. If Marv or Ange777 are left alive too long they will put it together as well, Bluelightz is also a threat if left too long. I think the blue roles are in competent hands, which is 1 more thing that takes time away from scum. Town is filled with threats, blues are set to do work, and the town's discussion (whether or not they go the right direction with it) is taking place exactly where it needs to. Around Risen/prplhz/Keir. I will be amazed if scum can pull this one off (Marv would have to drag the town kicking and screaming away from the right path). ------ Town is still suffering from activity problems, and at the same time still hasn't formed a majority (though Risen is one vote away from it). With only 6 hours left in the day, this is a dangerous situation for town. Whether Risen is town OR scum, it's important that he flip today. If he doesn't flip, prplhz and Keirathi sure as hell aren't gonna shoot him, and town is in the same place tomorrow. If he DOES flip, prplhz is in hot water, though Keirathi is doing okay. More than anything, the lack of a legitimate counter-wagon means there's almost no way in the next 6 hours anyone but Risen is getting lynched. The best scenario for scum here is a no-lynch. ----- Judging by Dirkzor's post here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=18#359 I think he suspects that Risen is town. With less than 4 hours in the day and most of town AFK, though, there's not much that can be done about the situation. And he's right, too-- a Risen flip will still tell town info. Maybe he's afraid of a no-lynch, or maybe he geniunely thinks Risen is scum. Stuff like hopping onto and pressuing lots of people is not a scumtell though-- or at least I have trouble distinguishing this sort of play from town play. I wonder what Dirkzor is thinking right now. ------ Interestingly, as Risen has gotten more emotionally involved in the mislynch that's happening to him, he's diverged from his initial, correct scumreads (prplhz and keirathi) into a ball of OMGUS and anger. I think due to, in part, a less-than-fully-critical town and a savvy play by Keirathi in attacking prplhz (though Risen spotted this), Risen got thrown off track. It's not easy to stick to your guns when the pressure is on, so I don't blame him, but his mislynch could have won the game for town. Scum's still not in a great place but contrasting the possible d1 prplhz lynch, this is a much better outcome. Their plan to discredit and shoot Ange777 isn't perfect, but given that the blues are playing it close-to-the-chest this game, it's fine. The best scum can do is to shoot the strongest scumhunter. Especially given how hard Risen has been chainsawing Marv, shooting Ange is probably wise. <><><>NIGHT 1 START<><><> The mislynch D1 was bad, especially because Risen diverged from his scumreads and there were no real counter-wagons. Town is in quite the bad situation as a result. ------ Thrawn in Obs QT: I do think it's likely that a lot of people voted for you not because they had a super-strong scum read, but because the momentum was pretty much only going against you and not against anyone else. I think this is pretty important. About halfway through the day the vote was 4 on Risen, 1 on prplhz, 1 on Keirathi. When there were 7 hours left the vote was 4 Risen, 1 prplhz, 1 Keirathi, 1 Zephirdd. With the town that split and with no major counter-wagon, it would have been tough to get someone else lynched. Lots of people hadn't voted, and nobody who thought Risen was town agreed on who scum was ------ Even though most people have V7 on their scum list, it's worth noting he correctly identified and protected the cop N1. It's not easy to do that. Of course, it's not super relevant since scum is taking out Ange, but so it goes. <><><>Day 2<><><> D2 note: town activity down = scum winrate up ------ Well, that's kind of what I expected given the activity D2. Scum is able to keep their heads down, and even though Marv backed off from his spat with Zephirdd, the claim means there won't be any results for LYLO. With Ange777 dead things are looking grim for town. Such a quiet D2 means a bad lurker lynch is a natural result. Zephirdd comes very close to the truth here, though: >The thing is, these timings feel too wrong because Ange777 was killed that night. to me, it feels like you tried to make bluelightz say something bad about ange777 before flipping her, and use that information to lynch bluelightz tonight. You chose bluelightz for that because I had just made a case on him earlier, and your case was even worse. Furthermore, you came in today and didn't vote the one who you said to be your top scum read, all while being AWOL during my and marvellosity's exchange. I think town has the pieces necessary for a victory, but they're uncohesive and not talking/working together enough to develop their reads. How much has Keirathi or prplhz really seen in terms of pressure other than the start of D1 when Risen was onto them? These guys haven't been given a chance to slip up because nobody's really talking about them extensively. I guess prplhz is under a bit more pressure but it's not aggressive or real, not with the V7 lynch locked in. <><><>Night 2/Day3 Start<><><> Dirkzor provides a bit of hope for a town victory. Analysis like this on a player who'll be alive tomorrow reduces the number of possible scum mislynches. Since scum is shooting Marv (rightly), D3 will be BL, Zeph, Dirk, Kei, Prplhz. BL seems like an obvious mislynch choice but he's playing his town meta-- it's just a scummy town meta. Without Marv around to figure things out, we're relying on Dirk's knowledge of BL's Meta (from idiot cop mafia among others) to realize he's town. Town is likely not to win. Good nightkills by scum, lack of cohesion, co-operation, and activity by town all contribute to this. Some final thoughts: Risen you were on the right track but really started flailing under pressure from scum and a misguided townie or two. You lost track of your reads and ended up accusing everyone. Your mislynch might have won the game but instead it contributed very little. vaderseven, getting mislynched like that was horrible. ;_; Bluelightz, your reads were meh but your effort was really quite low. Not realizing Zeph's claim was solid was bad. Honestly though you might want to refine your town play a bit, since despite the fact that you always play the same as town people mislynch you for it anyways. Kei: good play. looked town, shot good scumhunters. Prplhz you probably should have gotten lynched. Zephir and Dirk both of you should have known how Bluelightz is. Props to Zeph for backing off of Marv after being forced to claim though. | ||
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Quatol
Burkina Faso57 Posts
i didn't think Dirk was scum unless BL was scum, so we'd have lynched prplhz day 3 and then at least Kei would have been on the cards being away for 3-4 hours prior to both lynches sucked balls edit: also cohosting on a different account you're playing a game in sucks balls ;p anyway, mainly Kei played superwell, and I think even if vader had been around and claimed an hour earlier town would have been in a much better spot, but meh. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Blazinghand wrote: It seems certain that with just a bit of leadership from Marv or Ange777 this will turn into a landslide for town.  | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B2kB6.png) | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
- Shiaopi's ---- Score: -6 - HiroPro's ---- Score: -3 (failed all-in, correct on BL lynch) - talismania's ---- Score: 14 - Halapauli's ---- Score: 9 - Risen's ---- Score: 6 (failed all-in, correct on BL lynch, had prplhz on scumlist) - Ange777's ---- Score: 1 Talismania is our winner! And, after recognizing that he is by far the best reader and anticipator of this game, I have come to realize something about him. Talismania, you have more cunning in you than MacGyver's mullet. Congratulations! | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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