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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Please read the entire thread before signing up. Thank you.
* DoYouHas will be co-hosting this game. Please ensure you send all night actions to both him/her and myself.
*There are no coaches in this game.
GSL Open Mini Mafia + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting: Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Rules specific to this game are also shown in blue text in this thread.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day cycle and vote every day while you are alive. There is no activity requirement at night. If you fail to follow activity rules, you will be inactivity modkilled. If you are inactivity modkilled, in addition to the normal modkill consequences, I will publicly ridicule you. During the post which announces you are modkilled for inactivity, you shall suffer for 3 full sentences. I will refer to you as a "n00b in4ctive lurkz0r" sentence one, I'll question your activity levels in bed in sentence two, and I will call you a toothless pudding-eater in sentence three. I will do the same in the post-game analysis. You have been warned.
Off-Topic: Try to stay on-topic while playing
Smurfs: Talk to me ahead of time via PM or something. Smurfs are fine.
Hydras: I'm fine with 1 hydra, maybe 2, tops. The two of you should contact me first though cause sometimes hydraing goes poorly. If we don't have enough signups you'll have to split into regular players.
Spam: Try not to spam. If it happens, it happens. Sometimes you gotta triple post, etc. Don't worry about it too much. If I think you're spamming I'll tell you to stop, and then you'll stop. Not stopping is strictly prohibited.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing is not allowed. You get one (1) warning for editing. After that, you will be modkilled. Sorry ;_; but as Tupac would tell you that's just the way it is (nanana, nanana, nanana that's just the way it is nanana nanana nanana things will never be the same)
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally. Stuff like "this argument is dumb because XYZ" is fine. Stuff like "you are doing ABC, which is dumb" or "you're dumb if you do ABC" is mostly fine. Stuff like "you're dumb. lolooloooo" is not fine. I'm very verbal about people getting out of line.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. If you're not playing to win I will modkill you. But this won't be a problem, because if you don't want to win you can just not sign up k?
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game :D
You have been warned! bwahahaha
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in the game thread. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote DoYouHas. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game-- or rather, such votes will not count. 4.5. You can vote for a no-lynch if you want to. 5. This game follows a simple majority lynch. So if there are 8 players you need 5 to lynch, if there are 7 players you need 4 to lynch. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. 7. The player with the majority at the end of the day will be lynched. If there is no majority, you baddies just no-lynched!
Signups:
Eligibility Anyone may sign up for this game, even if they are a noob. However, this game uses non-standard normal mechanics so I'd recommend any newbs go check out the newbie games.
Invites One (1) slot in this game is reserved for my boy vaderseven. If I don't hear back from him, it will become available to everyone else.
Signing up To sign up, type /in in the thread. I count all signups within 12 hours of each other to have happened simultaneously for the purposes of determining who signed up first in order to be fair to people who are asleep when signups open. If multiple people sign up within 12 hours of each other for a smaller number of remaining slots, who gets in will be RNGed.
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List, and also type /sitout in the thread here.
Replacements I love replacements, but I hope never to use them. There are 5 replacement slots, so sign up if you're interested. Replacements will be made up until D3. You're encouraged to find your own replacement.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 21:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to iGrok and Incognito for going over this setup with me. Also thanks to Probulous since I stole this OP from him and modified it to my nefarious needs. Also also thanks to DYH for co-hosting.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I might give you candy.
I am open to questions any time. If something doesn't make sense, please ask.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Roles and Setup information
This is a semi-open setup. There are four possible setups, and which setup is chosen will be RNGed. The chosen setup is not revealed, but it should be deducable as the game goes on.
Macro Players
Progamer (Vanilla Townie): You're one of the best players of your era. You've fought your way here, to the Round of 9, in the GSL Open! Your favorite things are Fast Expands and long walks on the beach. You are a VT. Find and destroy the cheesers.
NesTea (Parity Cop): Each night you can use your macro skills to send overlords to scout someone and see who they are. However, the metagame is young so you can't really tell what's going on without a comparison point! Each night you target someone, and you're told if the alignment of your target is the same or different as your previous target. Your N1 check doesn't return anything, but is neccessary for your N2 check to work. You can't check yourself. Find and destroy the cheesers.
HopeTorture (Doctor): You're a huge nerd baller and are here to crush any Protoss hope of winning the GSL. Because Terran is OP, you can use your Terran macro skills each night to help a friend. Remember, Planetary Fortresses actually just don't die. Each night, you can save someone from the nightkill. You can't protect the same player twice in a row. You can't save yourself. Find and destroy the cheesers.
BoxeR (Named VT): You are a blue with no powers. Still, you are the legendary BoxeR, so you can of course roleclaim. However, this is GSL Open Season 1, and so you don't know if you're Lim Yo Hwan or Lee Jung Hoon. There might both be in this game, or it might be just you and HopeTorture, or you and NesTea. Find and destroy the cheesers.
Town Win Condition - The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Cheesers
Cheeser (Mafia Goon): You are scum. You have no special powers. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
BitByBitPrime.WE (Mafia RB): You are scum. Each night, you can marine/scv all-in a player to RB him. You can RB and send in the factional KP in the same night if you are the last scum. The target, even if he is a VT, is notified of being roleblocked. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
Mafia Win condition - The mafia wins when there are no remaining townies or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Possible Setups A) 1 Cheeser, 1 BitByBitPrime.WE, 1 HopeTorture, 1 NesTea, 5 Progamers B) 2 Cheesers, 1 BoxeR, 1 NesTea, 5 Progamers C) 2 Cheesers, 1 BoxeR, 1 HopeTorture, 5 Progamers D) 1 Cheeser, 1 BitByBitPrime.WE, 2 BoxeRs, 5 Progamers
Each setup is equally likely. Who gets what role will be RNGed.
Sample PMs:
Progamer BoxeR HopeTorture NesTea Cheeser, your QT: _____ BitbyBit.PrimeWE, your QT: _____
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
This post reserved until further notice.
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Dn mini mafia... ptp3... work... hmm...
FUCK THIS /in
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Disregard the PM BH. I should just work on changing my meta 1 game at a time.
/in
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United States22154 Posts
there is no FruitDealer.
This make me sad.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 04 2012 13:48 Risen wrote: Disregard the PM BH. I should just work on changing my meta 1 game at a time.
/in
Okay, sounds good.
On September 04 2012 14:03 GMarshal wrote: there is no FruitDealer.
This make me sad.
;_; sorry
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On September 04 2012 14:03 GMarshal wrote: there is no FruitDealer.
This make me sad. ^
Wait, this is 9 player or 13 player setup?
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On September 04 2012 13:48 Risen wrote: Disregard the PM BH. I should just work on changing my meta 1 game at a time.
/in My nemesis! :o
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 04 2012 14:27 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 14:03 GMarshal wrote: there is no FruitDealer.
This make me sad. ^ Wait, this is 9 player or 13 player setup?
9 players, I just miswrote the player list. should be accurate now
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On September 04 2012 14:29 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 13:48 Risen wrote: Disregard the PM BH. I should just work on changing my meta 1 game at a time.
/in My nemesis! :o
Lol.
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/in because GSL and Blazinghand
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what the penis no fruitdealer
e: DAMN YOU GM FOR STEALING MY OUTRAGE
Gonna vent my new source of outrage into shaking my fist at you
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/in ... if it doesn't matter that I didn't even know SC2 when GSL Open happend
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
/in
FD
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United States22154 Posts
On September 04 2012 16:38 wherebugsgo wrote: what the penis no fruitdealer
e: DAMN YOU GM FOR STEALING MY OUTRAGE
Gonna vent my new source of outrage into shaking my fist at you I think I get to be more outraged
(also, shameless self promotion!)
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/in
This is going to be good =)
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
8 people have /inned, so signups close in 6 hours. If vaderseven still hasn't contacted me by that time, he loses his reserved spot and signups will continue.
Is the deadline at 15:00 GMT (+00:00) okay for everyone?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
not a fan of that deadline. really stunted Dwarf Fortress imo.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Other deadlines that work well for me are 21:00 GMT (+00:00) and 07:00 GMT (+00:00) +/- an hour or so. I'd be fine using those if either of those work well. I would not like a stunted game if it can be avoided.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
i'd suggest 22:00 as the best deadline then
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that's 21:00 GMT (+00:00) for those of you who don't know what time zone marv is talking about and how it translates into wherever you live
(also perfectly good for me)
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Unless it doesn't work well for someone, then, the deadline is going to be at 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
9 players has /inned. Signups for this game close at 23:49 GMT (+00:00)
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Yea that deadline works better for me. Thanks!
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
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On September 05 2012 03:48 ShiaoPi wrote: /obs
/scan
/kill
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On September 05 2012 03:54 vaderseven wrote:/scan /kill
/sadface
/opening new QQ thread about OP Terran
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On September 05 2012 03:35 Blazinghand wrote: Unless it doesn't work well for someone, then, the deadline is going to be at 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
9 players has /inned. Signups for this game close at 23:49 GMT (+00:00)
Can you delay the deadline by ~40min? Basically my work breaks are exactly 30min after this deadline
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 05 2012 06:52 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:35 Blazinghand wrote: Unless it doesn't work well for someone, then, the deadline is going to be at 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
9 players has /inned. Signups for this game close at 23:49 GMT (+00:00) Can you delay the deadline by ~40min? Basically my work breaks are exactly 30min after this deadline
22:00 GMT (+00:00) is also an option, though that might be a bit on the late time for our european friends. I would really rather not have the game ending in the middle of an hour.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
23:00 is totally fine for me.
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^^thi
<edit> I just realized 23:00 for marv is 15:00 for BH which is the deadline he mentioned above lol.
I agree with it
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CAN YOU PEOPLE USE TIME TAGS
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
na I like to make you bitches work for it
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Blazinghand's Time Tag Tutorial (BTTT)
Step 1: write the time in your own time zone format Example: 23:00
Step 2: Write your time zone after the tag Example: 23:00 PDT
Step 3: write [time] before your time tag and [/time] after it. Example: [time]23:00 PDT[/time]
And you're done and ready to go! Welcome to Global Standard ;)
This is what the stuff in tags above comes out as: 06:00 GMT (+00:00)
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I am fine with 21:00 GMT (+00:00) and 22:00 GMT (+00:00). 15:00 GMT (+00:00) should be ok as well. 06:00 GMT (+00:00) or 07:00 GMT (+00:00) would be a bit troublesome as I would not always be able to post in the last 8-9 hours before deadline.
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/in IS IT TOO LATE AHHHHHHHHHHH
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I think I made it? 18:25 EST right now but you guys keep changing times so idk.
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On September 05 2012 07:13 marvellosity wrote: na I like to make you bitches work for it day1 policy lynch imo
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On September 05 2012 07:25 grush57 wrote: I think I made it? 18:25 EST right now but you guys keep changing times so idk.
I think we are already full.
Don't lynch marv! I like him <3
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Oh, k. INST ALYNCH MARV IF HE REACHES D4
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K I'll /in for replace I guess.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
less of the marv-lynching and more sexytimes and cuddles.
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On September 05 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote: less of the marv-lynching and more sexytimes and cuddles. /in
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Signups are closed. Day 1 begins Wednesday, Sep 05 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
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yay... Question from a EU noob. 12.00am is that 00.00/24.00? Or 12.00?
also is the deadline now set in stone for 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 05 2012 14:50 Dirkzor wrote: yay... Question from a EU noob. 12.00am is that 00.00/24.00? Or 12.00?
also is the deadline now set in stone for 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
Hm, I think the <date> tags turn it into the 12-hour clock for some reason.
Day 1 begins Wednesday, Sep 05 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00). This time should be late at night for europeans, mid-afternoon for north and south americans, and early morning for asians and australians.
All deadlines will be at 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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12:00 am CEST is 12 o'clock at noon for us.
Edit: Okay, apparentely not. I am confused :D I always read that as noon.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 05 2012 14:54 Ange777 wrote: 12:00 am CEST is 12 o'clock at noon for us.
Edit: Okay, apparentely not. I am confused :D I always read that as noon.
The trick is to turn it into 12:30 and see if it makes sense. 12:30 am would be right before 1 am, in the middle of the night. 12:30 pm would be right before 1 pm, in the afternoon.
Actually I take it back, the real trick is to just use a 24-hour clock ;_;
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United States22154 Posts
Also, this song should be burnt into the brain of anyone who watched gsl1
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On September 05 2012 15:00 GMarshal wrote:Also, this song should be burnt into the brain of anyone who watched gsl1
You're a bad person.
Edit: READY TO ROLL, READY TO ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Role PMs are going out. Day 1 begins in about 3 hours, 20 minutes, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Please don't post in the thread between now and the Day Post.
Observers may contact DoYouHas for access to the Obs QT. Remember that if you want to replace in you can't be in the Obs QT.
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Okay wait, which season is this? I thought it was going to be season 2...
Also holy shit that was two whole years ago T_T i feel old
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
The theme for this game combines elements from all the GSL Open tourneys. There are lots of interesting memories and awesome moments to be had across all three seasons. That being said, let's try to keep it quiet here in the thread for the next two hours between now and the daypost. Thanks!
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
All Role PMs have been sent out, so today is going to start a bit early, and last for ~50 hours instead of ~48. We have the same deadline as usual, though.
If you did not receive a role PM, or you don't understand your role PM, PM me immediately. I am standing by.
Day post incoming.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Day 1
Tasteless: Inca's play has broken to be very diverse. All-in builds, aggressive builds, passive builds. Zerg though having a bit of trouble in Sc2. Blizzard's still patching stuff and trying to affect it. Alright, we're going to introduce our players in a moment, tell us a little about LiveForever Artosis: I played him so many times on the korean ladder... and, he's a really high level-- the thing is, early on, we didn't see him really play his best. You know, he's not an experienced progamer... but he might be able to take out maka.
The game begins. It's a TvT on Crap Station. The game is young, the world is young. It's 2010 and there's much to see, much to do. eSports as we know it barely exists, and it is Gretech Corp who strives to create it.
Gretech Corp is, of course, a giant. The GOM Player is a masterpiece of new-style software. I hate to call things "web 2.0" or "crowd-sourced" but I'll be damned in GOM Player isn't literally both of those things. All this is non-obvious to foreigners so I'll break it down for you.
GOM Player is a 3rd-party media player, like VLC or Media Player Classic, and it can play or organize your music, videos, and movies. It runs well and is a good player. More than that, though, it's the media player of choice for 70% of the Korean media player market. This is because GOM Player is more than just a media player: it is a P2P stream watcher. If you're using GOM Player in Korea, you can stream TV, Movies, and other entertainment through it. Imagine GOM Player as an unholy gestalt of Youtube, Netflix Watch Instantly, and your favorite Bittorent client. Yeah, it's that good.
Gretech executives are canny people. They have a great, lovable product and they know it. Why not break into the foreign markets by offering the greatest Sc2 league imaginable? Big prizes, big name, good format. Hire some well-liked American BW Pros to cast it in English, and of course the overseas stream can only be viewed via GOM Player.
There is, however, a flaw in the plan. Something's gone horribly wrong in the tournament, endlessly wrong. It's the Round of 9, and we are infested with Cheesers. There aren't many of them, just a couple-- but it's enough to cause serious problems. It wasn't until A Fruit Dealer was knocked out by an aggressive cheese that it was brought to the attention of the GOM execs. They pondered briefly what to do, and behind closed doors talked to two progamers, endowing them with special powers. Some speculate it was BoxeR who they spoke with, others say it was NesTea or HopeTorture. Either way, something must be done to stop the all-ins. As the final match of the Round of 18 ends, the remaining 9 players gather on the stage floor and begin their matches...
Foolishness as Cool the Champion has been cheesed! Qatol as IdrA the Foreigner Hope has been out-expanded! Blazinghand as AcupunctureZenith the Serial Killer has been outmacroed! DoYouHas as RenieHouR the Hopeless Protoss has been disqualified for body odor!
Welcome to Day 1! This Day ends in ~50 hours at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Any player without a role PM, please PM me. I'm like super sure I got everyone though. Oh yeah and no mentioning when exactly you got your role PM in the past hour.
Observers please PM DoYouHas for the Obs QT. There's a treat waiting for you there!
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
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Welcome erryone.
I fkn hate getting cheesed. Everyone fortify your bases, don't get greedy, and hold for the late game and we got this.
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hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks
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On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
A really good scumhunter. She was in Newbie XXII with me, and she basically carried the team to victory, catching a scumslip and then his two partners consecutively after the fallout from it.
AFAIK that's her only game so far, but she was really impressive.
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I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!!
On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks
Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence.
##vote: prplhz
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EBWOP: Awww, day 1 post totally ruined my flavor :/
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@Risen
Could you please tell me why you are voting me? Your explanation appears to be some metaphor that doesn't make any sense to me.
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On September 06 2012 06:09 prplhz wrote: @Risen
Could you please tell me why you are voting me? Your explanation appears to be some metaphor that doesn't make any sense to me.
You seem friendly enough with your "everyone post shit", but really it just looks like you're trying to blend in.
You then say you'll come back and tell us who's scum. You sound really confident you know who scum is. You scum breh?
Your next question is about a player when you could clearly just go check his filter instead of relying on possible scum opinions of him. Another statement meant to give thread presence without actually doing anything.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Ange is a beastly player from the newbie games who turned a 5-3 MYLO into a town romp.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Or was that gk. hmm. Anyway, some similarly good town performance.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
@Kei, she's played at least one other to that I think.
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@marvellosity How do you feel about Risen and how he has a hard scum read three posts into the game?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
i think it's dumb as shit and i'm leaving it at that for the moment
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Fuck it.
I can't believe that Risen can be serious about this. It's three posts into the game and the two posts before me were nonsense. He is actually trying to make a full case on me and I just can't believe he is serious about this. No benefit of the dumb here.
Contrast this with his first vote in his latest game (clink). It's a pressure vote for someone who made a dumb vote but it's a while into the game and it's got more of a "whim" feeling about it. This looks a lot more careful but [u]we're three dumb posts into the game. I just can't believe this.
##Vote Risen[/url]
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+ Show Spoiler [Formatting] +Fuck it. I can't believe that Risen can be serious about this. It's three posts into the game and the two posts before me were nonsense. He is actually trying to make a full case on me and I just can't believe he is serious about this. No benefit of the dumb here. Contrast this with his first vote in his latest game (clink). It's a pressure vote for someone who made a dumb vote but it's a while into the game and it's got more of a "whim" feeling about it. This looks a lot more careful but we're three dumb posts into the game. I just can't believe this. ##Vote Risen
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
well, this is just lovely.
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Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz
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On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz
Something to look at later. Why not just say I don't look scum based off meta? Scummy brosephemon.
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Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself.
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On September 06 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote: Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself.
He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me.
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On September 06 2012 06:59 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote: Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself. He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me. I don't think so.
I think he's saying that you first post was Kenpachi Rule based on prplhz's first post. Then prplhz Kenpachi Rule'd you first post, and added OMGUS.
Kenpachi Rule < Kenpachi Rule + OMGUS is basically what he was trying to say I think.
The math makes sense, but the premise doesn't necessarily. I've seen plenty of townies go out of their way to make bogus cases based on someone's first post just to get discussion started. I don't think its particularly alignment telling.
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On September 06 2012 07:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:59 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote: Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself. He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me. I don't think so. I think he's saying that you first post was Kenpachi Rule based on prplhz's first post. Then prplhz Kenpachi Rule'd you first post, and added OMGUS. Kenpachi Rule < Kenpachi Rule + OMGUS is basically what he was trying to say I think. The math makes sense, but the premise doesn't necessarily. I've seen plenty of townies go out of their way to make bogus cases based on someone's first post just to get discussion started. I don't think its particularly alignment telling.
-> Post based on someone's first post to get discussion started = Risen -> OMGUS on someone's first post because of that = prplhz
One of these is scummy. Hint: I have my vote on him
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prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb
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For reference, Kenpachi rule = whoever attacks the VT claim first is scum. I don't think it's particularly alignment telling either, but it is scummy in my opinion. Combine that with his OMGUS argument and we have our first scum team member. (I'm like 65% sure prplhz is scum)
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I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said?
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On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb
You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum.
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On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote: I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said?
There is no defense for you at this point if you keep digging yourself a hole. It's early in the day, relax and just scumhunt as the day goes on.
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On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum. No it wasn't. I asked you if you were serious and then you pretty much said "Yes". You wrote "Man this is so quiet" and then I asked you what the hell you were doing and then it took you 10 mins to write a carefully written 6 line bullshit case about 5 posts into the game. It doesn't look at all like you were just trying to start discussion which was what I was trying to make sure before considering to vote you.
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prplhz hasn't dug himself a hole, and he wasn't doing anything to do with the kenpachi rule
he called you out on your bs and he stuck a vote on the end. like whatever.
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On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote: I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said? What is there to have an opinion about? Both votes are almost equally dumb, but I'm not sure how to read them alignment wise. TL Mafia in general is full of dumb early votes that almost never actually catch scum.
This recent post brings up some more questions though. If you weren't "really going to defend [yourself] against [his] case because it is beyond horrible", then why did you feel the need to OMGUS his vote with a vote of your own?
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Risen is backing down but I can't say that he's doing a smooth job of it.
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prplhz, I don't think you understand that he never actually pushed you on it seriously(fo realz). A townie answer to that post would be "lol ok" or "lol this is dumb" not "omfg this is terrible blablabla you are playing bad ##vote"
This is basically how the Kenpachi Rule works, or the one I like to call "Extended Kenpachi Rule". I actually caught a scum with that once, but he was my ally that game so I didn't push him on it.
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On September 06 2012 07:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote: I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said? What is there to have an opinion about? Both votes are almost equally dumb, but I'm not sure how to read them alignment wise. TL Mafia in general is full of dumb early votes that almost never actually catch scum. This recent post brings up some more questions though. If you weren't "really going to defend [yourself] against [his] case because it is beyond horrible", then why did you feel the need to OMGUS his vote with a vote of your own? LOL I VOTED BECAUSE HE IS DOING SCUMMY SHIT
You are saying "If you didn't think his case on you was any good then why did you vote for him?". What???
OMGUS is fucking dumb, people think it has merits because, well it's an acronym, duh! It has to mean something and that something should be scum!
OMGUS means to vote for someone because they voted for you but if you read my GOD DAMN POSTS then you'll see that I didn't vote for Risen because he voted for me. And even if I did, how the hell does that make me scum? No one knows and no one can answer that because it doesn't. It's a dumb acronym that people fling about (like WIFOM) and generally haven't the faintest clue what means or how it's used. Not that it matters because it doesn't apply to me.
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On September 06 2012 07:22 Zephirdd wrote: prplhz, I don't think you understand that he never actually pushed you on it seriously(fo realz). A townie answer to that post would be "lol ok" or "lol this is dumb" not "omfg this is terrible blablabla you are playing bad ##vote"
This is basically how the Kenpachi Rule works, or the one I like to call "Extended Kenpachi Rule". I actually caught a scum with that once, but he was my ally that game so I didn't push him on it. Holy wow, it's a rule that actually caught a scum once! (though not really because apparently Zephirdd already knew that he was scum)
Sign me up already.
His first post was dumb so I asked him if he was serious and then he said "Yes" and then I can't do anything but take his word for it. If you're thinking "Well, he wasn't serious even though he said so when asked." then you are playing this game wrong.
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OMGUS means to vote for someone because they voted for you OMGUS means to vote for someone because they voted for you under the reasoning that they are bad. "Oh My God You Suck"
On September 06 2012 06:31 prplhz wrote:Fuck it. I can't believe that Risen can be serious about this. It's three posts into the game and the two posts before me were nonsense. He is actually trying to make a full case on me and I just can't believe he is serious about this. No benefit of the dumb here. Contrast this with his first vote in his latest game (clink). It's a pressure vote for someone who made a dumb vote but it's a while into the game and it's got more of a "whim" feeling about it. This looks a lot more careful but [u]we're three dumb posts into the game. I just can't believe this. ##Vote Risen [/url]
"I can't believe he is serious about this" = he is bad
The definition you used for OMGUS is the wrong one that don't matter. The one I'm using is the one that is actually a scumtell.
Anyways I'm back to work. won't post for a few hours.
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Prpl the more you post the more scummy you look man. Sorry dude, didn't to end this game for scum so soon :O
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On September 06 2012 07:24 prplhz wrote: You are saying "If you didn't think his case on you was any good then why did you vote for him?". What???
Yes. That's exactly what I'm asking.
Was Risen's vote dumb? Yes. Was it scummily dumb? Hard to say for sure, but first guess would be no. If he has other scummy things to go along with it, then obviously my opinion would change. It felt a lot like a random pressure vote that happens in every game ever. Did it deserve a vote? No, I don't think it did. People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case.
See NMM XXII. Mordanis made a stupidly bad case on me super early in day 1. What did I do? Brushed it off with a 1-liner and kept looking for scum.
Basically, I find it hard to believe that you could get a solid scum read on Risen based on his "case" considering basically every TL Mafia game starts out with an equally dumb "case".
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I can't believe he is serious and he can't be serious when he says he is serious.
No.
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@Keirathi First you don't know what to think, now you've suddenly formed a pretty strong opinion on me but no vote.
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On September 06 2012 07:40 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi First you don't know what to think, now you've suddenly formed a pretty strong opinion on me but no vote. I don't have a strong opinion on you. At least, certainly not strong enough for a vote yet. I don't believe in throwing votes around lightly. If you look through all of my games, I've only unvoted TWICE in all of them. I need information to make up my mind, but once I do I stick with it. That's why I'm asking you questions and writing out responses to your posts.
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On September 06 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote: let's not kill prplhz
Why not? He's the scummiest one in thread so far.
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there's like 3 people in the thread. and he's already way more active and invested than in the spate of scum games he's had in minis recently.
of course prplhz is a good enough player to put this on, but atm i'm betting this isn't the case
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On September 06 2012 08:13 Quatol wrote: there's like 3 people in the thread. and he's already way more active and invested than in the spate of scum games he's had in minis recently.
of course prplhz is a good enough player to put this on, but atm i'm betting this isn't the case
le sigh
for filter
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Hey, where is everyone else? I mean I've been gone for hours but nobody new popped up and posted something
Kinda hoping that all the discussion so far would spark interest in someone else.
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On September 06 2012 10:15 Zephirdd wrote:Hey, where is everyone else? I mean I've been gone for hours but nobody new popped up and posted something Kinda hoping that all the discussion so far would spark interest in someone else.
I thought so too, but I'm on a 24hr day cycle clock lol. This is a 48 hr day, people will probably come in tomorrow.
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First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it.
On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz
This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something.
What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum??
I see no merit to that thought.
I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly.
##vote Risen
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V7 noooo, thought we were bros man :<
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On September 06 2012 12:18 Risen wrote: V7 noooo, thought we were bros man :<
Then and now.
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What games did we play together in Risen?
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Good morning guys
Why isn't prlphz' vote an OMGUS? Basically I understood his post this way: Risen can't be seriously voting for me. Actually he is seriously voting for me. This is so bad. He gets my vote. (I don't get a different "feeling" from the other game linked.)
I am not liking Risen's case on prlphz either. Both are equally stupid.
@V7: Isn't Risen's first post standard fluff as well?
My TL Mafia history: + Show Spoiler +Scum in Newbie Mini XII Town in Newbie Mini XV Town in TL Mafia LV Town in Newbie Mini XXII
I had to leave Newbie Mini XV and TL Mafia LV earlier but I've officially used up my newbie games.
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I never voted for Risen because he is bad.
The only influence his first post has on my vote for him is how it doesn't fit with what he usually does, I posted a link of his first vote in his last game and that looks nothing like this. Of course people do dumb shit to start discussion all the time which is why I didn't just jump the gun and vote for him, I asked him if he was serious and then he said "Yes, I truly believe that you are scum 3 posts into the game and for these few careful reasons that it took me suspiciously long to type out."
That's why I'm voting for him.
Since you're not getting a different "feeling" from his other game, you must be getting a similar feeling. Can you explain this to me?
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Uh, and then he back down and says that his first two posts were just to start discussion but they absolutely don't look like that to me.
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Except his play after that is to take it super serious mode YET its a play that attacks a similar thing. Its stupid.
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I didn't go through the whole game and only read Risen's post you linked and got a very random and stupid feeling out of it. I don't feel that his vote in this game was more carefully done than the other. Mind you, I don't think I have played with Risen before so if this vote is truly based on his usual playstyle I am not able to judge it that well.
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On September 06 2012 15:49 prplhz wrote: Uh, and then he back down and says that his first two posts were just to start discussion but they absolutely don't look like that to me.
But they look like that to the others including me.
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Hi there! =) Game on!
I not really sure about Risen vs. Prphlz. Seems like they both overreacted to something the other did.
I don't like Risens green claim so early on. It serves no purpose what so ever and only gives scum a better chance to hit blue (yes he could have lied to confuse them, but then again serves no purpose for town if he is lying - just makes him a liar)
What did catch my attention that no one else seems to have noticed is this (minor thing):
On September 06 2012 06:04 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Awww, day 1 post totally ruined my flavor :/
which indicates that Risen had prepared the post _before_ the day post. Why would anyone prepare a post before day 1 post? Town have nothing to prepare since they have nothing to hide.
These two minor things makes me believe Risen might be scum.
What I also find interesting is how both Zephirdd and V7 have already taken sides. O_o How can one takes sides when both sides really have no substantial arguments? And both took sides with equally weak reasons.
Zehpirdd with the "Kenpachi rule extended" crap. V7 with "Either you don't think at all or you are aggresive scum hiding it poorly" which really doesn't say anything.
So far I think Zephirdd, V7 or Risen is leaning scummy.
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I am, here, reading the thread.
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Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing.
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On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing.
Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary.
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@Dirkzor: I have seen other players prepare posts before the day 1 post regardless of alignment. I don't think this can be taken as an indicator for scummy behaviour.
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On September 06 2012 21:12 Ange777 wrote: @Dirkzor: I have seen other players prepare posts before the day 1 post regardless of alignment. I don't think this can be taken as an indicator for scummy behaviour.
It can if said post was altered as it clearly was in Risen's case. There is no way he could have know about prplhz's post before the game so that was added after the game started.
either way I agree this is a minor thing. It just rubs the wrong way...
What do you think about people taking sides on the prplhz vs. risen thing and the reason given?
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I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post.
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EBWOP: I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post and therefore don't understand V7's vote.
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On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary.
Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's:
On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz
Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail.
Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work).
Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy)
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On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen
He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM).
Conclusion:
Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting)
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BL, what do you think of Keirathi?
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On September 06 2012 21:33 Ange777 wrote: EBWOP: I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post and therefore don't understand V7's vote.
Yes. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=12#232
I don't think there is much more difference from my vote to Risen's vote on this game. I didn't even talk to my teammates before posting that, and JingleHell's first post is complaining about me.
I go into QT and say "wtf jingle that was a bait for other townies" his answer is "I want to follow my meta, I'm very aggressive as town"
There is also this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=5#84
Fact is that it's a completely null post that makes scum think it's a good way to start a case or simply a way to blend in. It is a scum bait. I call it "extended" because it is no different from the VT-claim Kenpachi Rule that so well works on other games, like NMM2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058¤tpage=7#130 (Bluelightz was scum)
On Bluelightz' case,
1. Now that game is over, I'll go for it. Risen does not claim stupid null shit. That's it. At least he looks different from both games(this and DN mini); I can't say he's getting better over time though.
2. The number of times a rule has worked is relevant. Mafia is a game of chances and nothing is 100%(except the setup).
3. It's scummy because it's a O-M-G-U-S what the hell. Not because he is voting whoever voted him, it's because he is voting for the reasoning "you can't be serious about this". Kinda outlined it on the following posts nicely.
On another note, I have a question to Risen
Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically.
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Zeph, you can answer me too
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Inactive, trying to make sense out of stuff, not really pushing for a side or giving opinions that we can rely on later.
Indecisive Townie or Scum
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On September 06 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote: BL, what do you think of Keirathi?
He's Null, based on his lack of post's (His only post's are "People have made dumb cases, Risen's case is one" "Kenpachi rule + OMGUS > Kenpachi Rule" "prplhz i dun has strong read on u so no vote"). I would wait for him to form a "stronger" read on someone before fingering him an alignment.
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On September 06 2012 07:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:59 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote: Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself. He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me. I don't think so.I think he's saying that you first post was Kenpachi Rule based on prplhz's first post. Then prplhz Kenpachi Rule'd you first post, and added OMGUS. Kenpachi Rule < Kenpachi Rule + OMGUS is basically what he was trying to say I think.The math makes sense, but the premise doesn't necessarily. I've seen plenty of townies go out of their way to make bogus cases based on someone's first post just to get discussion started. I don't think its particularly alignment telling.
On September 06 2012 07:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote: I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said? What is there to have an opinion about? Both votes are almost equally dumb, but I'm not sure how to read them alignment wise. TL Mafia in general is full of dumb early votes that almost never actually catch scum. This recent post brings up some more questions though. If you weren't "really going to defend [yourself] against [his] case because it is beyond horrible", then why did you feel the need to OMGUS his vote with a vote of your own?
On September 06 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:24 prplhz wrote: You are saying "If you didn't think his case on you was any good then why did you vote for him?". What???
Yes. That's exactly what I'm asking. Was Risen's vote dumb? Yes. Was it scummily dumb? Hard to say for sure, but first guess would be no. If he has other scummy things to go along with it, then obviously my opinion would change. It felt a lot like a random pressure vote that happens in every game ever. Did it deserve a vote? No, I don't think it did. People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case. See NMM XXII. Mordanis made a stupidly bad case on me super early in day 1. What did I do? Brushed it off with a 1-liner and kept looking for scum. Basically, I find it hard to believe that you could get a solid scum read on Risen based on his "case" considering basically every TL Mafia game starts out with an equally dumb "case".
On September 06 2012 07:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:40 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi First you don't know what to think, now you've suddenly formed a pretty strong opinion on me but no vote. I don't have a strong opinion on you. At least, certainly not strong enough for a vote yet. I don't believe in throwing votes around lightly. If you look through all of my games, I've only unvoted TWICE in all of them. I need information to make up my mind, but once I do I stick with it. That's why I'm asking you questions and writing out responses to your posts.
##Vote: Keirathi
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I can totally buy that and since Risen isn't going down today.
##Vote Keirathi
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Really marv? You know me better than that.
You question me every game for not taking hard stances day 1. My playstyle hasn't changed and isn't going to. I form opinions slowly and deliberately.
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On September 07 2012 00:48 Keirathi wrote: Really marv? You know me better than that.
You question me every game for not taking hard stances day 1. My playstyle hasn't changed and isn't going to. I form opinions slowly and deliberately.
uh huh. I went back and looked at Not Themed and noted you were hum-ha there to start with too. But not quite like this. Here (in addition to what I bolded) you've managed to say so little in quite a lot of words.
All this bla-bla about kenpachi rule. And for some reason it's prplhz's vote that wasn't warranted, whereas Risen's was even more unwarranted.
Prove me wrong, sweetcheeks.
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On September 06 2012 13:52 vaderseven wrote: What games did we play together in Risen?
Dude I have no idea. I think we've played together in one somewhere, though. I love your name :3
On September 06 2012 18:49 Dirkzor wrote:Hi there! =) Game on! I not really sure about Risen vs. Prphlz. Seems like they both overreacted to something the other did. I don't like Risens green claim so early on. It serves no purpose what so ever and only gives scum a better chance to hit blue (yes he could have lied to confuse them, but then again serves no purpose for town if he is lying - just makes him a liar) What did catch my attention that no one else seems to have noticed is this (minor thing): Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:04 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Awww, day 1 post totally ruined my flavor :/ which indicates that Risen had prepared the post _before_ the day post. Why would anyone prepare a post before day 1 post? Town have nothing to prepare since they have nothing to hide. These two minor things makes me believe Risen might be scum. What I also find interesting is how both Zephirdd and V7 have already taken sides. O_o How can one takes sides when both sides really have no substantial arguments? And both took sides with equally weak reasons. Zehpirdd with the "Kenpachi rule extended" crap. V7 with "Either you don't think at all or you are aggresive scum hiding it poorly" which really doesn't say anything. So far I think Zephirdd, V7 or Risen is leaning scummy.
More like I didn't read all the way through the day 1 post because I was desperate to get Fruitdealer into this game :/
On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing.
1) Defensive behavior? Where? I'm just telling prpl to stop digging himself a hole.
2) I don't know who scum and town are beyond myself. I'm going to point out anything and everything I find that's scummy, including about people who "support" me. Why on earth would you find that scummy? Looks like you're reaching trying to paint something as scummy when it's not. Not cool my dude. Lol, and then I like how you point out the same exact thing I do in your case post. Real nice.
On September 07 2012 00:19 prplhz wrote: I can totally buy that and since Risen isn't going down today.
##Vote Keirathi
What the fuck is that, man? I'm tied for first with you on number of votes I'm pretty sure, why would you give up so easily unless your initial case on me was paperthin? (not that my initial case on you was any different, but at least your play since my vote has backed up my vote)
From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
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On September 07 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:48 Keirathi wrote: Really marv? You know me better than that.
You question me every game for not taking hard stances day 1. My playstyle hasn't changed and isn't going to. I form opinions slowly and deliberately. uh huh. I went back and looked at Not Themed and noted you were hum-ha there to start with too. But not quite like this. Here (in addition to what I bolded) you've managed to say so little in quite a lot of words. All this bla-bla about kenpachi rule. And for some reason it's prplhz's vote that wasn't warranted, whereas Risen's was even more unwarranted. Prove me wrong, sweetcheeks. How was it even more unwarranted?
I see them as almost equally stupid, but at least I can sort of understand Risen's vote. Someone makes that dumb vote based on someone's first post every game.
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A bad case is a bad case whether it's at the start of the game or otherwise
why isn't prplhz equally getting the ball rolling?
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at least prplhz was voting on something that was a pile of shit, unlike Risen
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Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
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how am I bussing you, you retard?
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Also wtf, you've played with him as not "scum" too.
Not Themed. You were cop, he was VT.
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yeah, and LIII he was scum and I was town
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god damn that was scummy.
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How long ago was that Keir? Didn't even remember it. Hmm... why would town Marvel react so strongly to this. He's played with me as scum, he knows how I am there. Maybe he thinks I'm changing purposefully b/c he's also played with me as the "scum" team for two games straight now? That's WIFOM, but he knows this, so maybe he's just analyzing my posts on their own as scummy. This begs the question, what about my posting is scummy to you Marvel?
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On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
using WIFOM to possibly discredit (one of) the strongest townplayers
this whole post says nothing at all and is just insidious and pointless
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where did I even mention you were scummy prior to this?
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On September 07 2012 01:19 Risen wrote: How long ago was that Keir? Didn't even remember it. Hmm... why would town Marvel react so strongly to this. He's played with me as scum, he knows how I am there. Maybe he thinks I'm changing purposefully b/c he's also played with me as the "scum" team for two games straight now? That's WIFOM, but he knows this, so maybe he's just analyzing my posts on their own as scummy. This begs the question, what about my posting is scummy to you Marvel? It was in...July? I think. You seemed to remember the game because in pre-game when I said "My Nemesis!" you replied to me, and I was using that game as my reference because you had the really bad Cop claim that derailed the thread for like 36 hours.
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EBWOP: and almost get me lynched.
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Oh... I was just going with the flow man :/
Also, that entire post I just made was directed under the impression that you thought I was scummy here.
On September 07 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: god damn that was scummy.
Apparently it was directed at Keirathi. My previous post makes little sense now :/
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No, that was directed at that specific WIFOM post of yours.
But that post said I might be scum bussing you... (?) when I'd made no previous mention of you being scummy
Explain
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On September 07 2012 01:34 Quatol wrote: No, that was directed at that specific WIFOM post of yours.
But that post said I might be scum bussing you... (?) when I'd made no previous mention of you being scummy
Explain
fuck this lol
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EBWOP: And Marvel I don't doubt that you're one of the strongest town players. I'm just cautioning people from using meta to justify you as a town read (the same applies to me). We've both been scum together as recently as last game, since we're potentially not on the same team here we're both going to have to adjust or face getting called out by the other guy. This could just be what the other guy wants you to think WIFOMWIFOMWIFOM.
What I'm saying is that people should neglect meta in our cases b/c of unique circumstances and focus instead on the content of our posts. (Unless marv is alive on day4. Policy lynch)
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On September 07 2012 01:34 Quatol wrote: No, that was directed at that specific WIFOM post of yours.
But that post said I might be scum bussing you... (?) when I'd made no previous mention of you being scummy
Explain
What is this?
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On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
explain the bold
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Oh, I was under the impression that when you said
On September 07 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: god damn that was scummy.
it was directed at me.
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Blazinghand
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On September 07 2012 01:36 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:34 Quatol wrote: No, that was directed at that specific WIFOM post of yours.
But that post said I might be scum bussing you... (?) when I'd made no previous mention of you being scummy
Explain What is this?
Quatol is Marvellosity's smurf account.
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On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
On September 07 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: god damn that was scummy.
On September 07 2012 01:40 Risen wrote:Oh, I was under the impression that when you said it was directed at me.
Timestamps
##Unvote ##Vote: Risen
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On September 07 2012 01:41 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:36 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 01:34 Quatol wrote: No, that was directed at that specific WIFOM post of yours.
But that post said I might be scum bussing you... (?) when I'd made no previous mention of you being scummy
Explain What is this? Quatol is Marvellosity's smurf account.
This thread now makes sense again. I almost had a seizure trying to puzzle out what was meant in that Quatol post.
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Well that's going to go down as one of the dumbest things a towny has ever done if I get lynched off that rofl. I was convinced you were asking the question in response to this post.
[QUOTE]On September 07 2012 01:33 Risen wrote: Oh... I was just going with the flow man :/
Also, that entire post I just made was directed under the impression that you thought I was scummy here.
[QUOTE]On September 07 2012 01:19 Risen wrote: How long ago was that Keir? Didn't even remember it. Hmm... why would town Marvel react so strongly to this. He's played with me as scum, he knows how I am there. Maybe he thinks I'm changing purposefully b/c he's also played with me as the "scum" team for two games straight now? That's WIFOM, but he knows this, so maybe he's just analyzing my posts on their own as scummy. This begs the question, what about my posting is scummy to you Marvel?[/QUOTE]
My bad duder. Odd of you to fly off the handle with that vote, though. Hmm... If I were to be lynched I'd flip town, scum Marvel knows this. That would certainly put him in a bad spot since I'm laying out the reason for my timestamp issues in this post. Will have to see how he reacts.
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Your posts still don't explain how you thought marv had you marked as scummy.
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EBWOP: Omg the formatting my eyes aghghhhhh
Well that's going to go down as one of the dumbest things a towny has ever done if I get lynched off that rofl. I was convinced you were asking the question in response to this post.
On September 07 2012 01:19 Risen wrote: How long ago was that Keir? Didn't even remember it. Hmm... why would town Marvel react so strongly to this. He's played with me as scum, he knows how I am there. Maybe he thinks I'm changing purposefully b/c he's also played with me as the "scum" team for two games straight now? That's WIFOM, but he knows this, so maybe he's just analyzing my posts on their own as scummy. This begs the question, what about my posting is scummy to you Marvel?
My bad duder. Odd of you to fly off the handle with that vote, though. Hmm... If I were to be lynched I'd flip town, scum Marvel knows this. That would certainly put him in a bad spot since I'm laying out the reason for my timestamp issues in this post. Will have to see how he reacts.[/QUOTE]
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On September 07 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: at least prplhz was voting on something that was a pile of shit, unlike Risen
Looks like he's calling me out there :/
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ugh, can't tell if Risen is being awful or scum
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On September 07 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote: ugh, can't tell if Risen is being awful or scum
Awful. I'm sorry
I'M NOT PALMAR! I WISH I WAS, THOUGH!
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I'm going to reread the past page or two later and see if Risen's explanation can possibly make sense.
I still don't understand why you're bringing all this WIFOM bullshit into the thread about our alignments, though.
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Ange, tell me what you think
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Well, it only makes sense for us to try and play around each other since we were just scum last game and a member of a hydra during AoE mafia (which was kind of like being on a scum team together since the game revolved around alliances).
In both of those cases you kept telling me stop posting Risen. Risen stop posting. Risen the posting has gotta stop. Risen, you're posting again.
In this game, you're posting a lot more than you would as scum, in my opinion. But maybe that's what you want me to think? Hence the WIFOM.
OR! Maybe you're so unconcerned about the issue that you haven't changed your playstyle at all. This, in hindsight, seems the most likely option. You probably also think I should stop posting :/
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I'm kind of hung up on this:
On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch.
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On September 07 2012 01:58 Risen wrote: Well, it only makes sense for us to try and play around each other since we were just scum last game and a member of a hydra during AoE mafia (which was kind of like being on a scum team together since the game revolved around alliances).
In both of those cases you kept telling me stop posting Risen. Risen stop posting. Risen the posting has gotta stop. Risen, you're posting again.
In this game, you're posting a lot more than you would as scum, in my opinion. But maybe that's what you want me to think? Hence the WIFOM.
OR! Maybe you're so unconcerned about the issue that you haven't changed your playstyle at all. This, in hindsight, seems the most likely option. You probably also think I should stop posting :/
keep posting, stop WIFOMing like an arse
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On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch.
Ange, this was his explanation:
On September 07 2012 01:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: at least prplhz was voting on something that was a pile of shit, unlike Risen Looks like he's calling me out there :/
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Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence?
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Okay, so taking a good look at Risen now.
1) The really bad "case" 40 minutes into the game. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that, since virtually every game has someone make a similarly terrible case, but on top of his recent postings, I can certainly see him being scum and sticking his neck out early.
2) Giving his scum read an out:
On September 06 2012 06:19 Risen wrote: You then say you'll come back and tell us who's scum. You sound really confident you know who scum is. You scum breh?
On September 06 2012 07:09 Risen wrote: For reference, Kenpachi rule = whoever attacks the VT claim first is scum. I don't think it's particularly alignment telling either, but it is scummy in my opinion. Combine that with his OMGUS argument and we have our first scum team member. (I'm like 65% sure prplhz is scum)
On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum.
But then:
On September 06 2012 07:12 Risen wrote: There is no defense for you at this point if you keep digging yourself a hole. It's early in the day, relax and just scumhunt as the day goes on.
So, you seem pretty confident that prplhz is scum before this post (and even a bit after it). So why are you telling him what he needs to do to look townie? If you're really trying to catch a scum, you should be tightening the noose, not giving him a way to slip out of it.
Plus, where is your scumhunting as the day goes on?
And this:
On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: *snip*
From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
That doesn't sound like what you were trying to say earlier.
3) Misrepresentation of facts/WIFOM/etc
On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or (A)scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. (B)I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. (3)He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
A) Bussing you? I don't really understand this part at all.
B) Like I pointed out, Risen played with marv as both townies in I Can't Believe Its Not Themed mini 2 months ago. I was in the game too, and ribbed him about it in the pre-game and he replied, so I assumed he remembered. Now he says he doesn't remember the game at all and was just rolling with the punches.
So is his memory really just that bad, or is he intentionally saying he doesn't remember because he got caught in a lie? Normally I would give BotD for that, since not everyone will remember every game they've ever played, but it seems really suspect in light of the other evidence.
C) All the rest is just major WIFOM. In fact, I'm not even sure what the point of those last two sentences are? Like, he's not using them to condemn marv, nor is he clearing him? He's just using WIFOM as fuck arguments to say "I'm watching you." Why not just say that you're watching him?
Conclusion: Too many little things that on their own could be scummy or could just be a bad townie, but combine them all together and it fits the bill of a scum.
##Vote: Risen
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On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote: Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence?
you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning?
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On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch.
Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck.
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On September 07 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote: Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence? you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning? I certainly had that thought.
But in context it doesn't really make sense. You (marv) are trying to appear like you are bussing him (Risen)? Huh?
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Yes, that's exactly what I am thinking. I want to hear an explanation.
##FOS Risen
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On September 07 2012 02:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote:On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote: Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence? you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning? I certainly had that thought. But in context it doesn't really make sense. You (marv) are trying to appear like you are bussing him (Risen)? Huh?
I know! It's confusing.
@Risen: Explanation please instead of deflecting.
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I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought.
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On September 07 2012 02:14 Risen wrote: I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought. But you would have to be scum with marv for him to "bus" you. If he's scum and you're town, he could be starting a wagon on you. However, bus and wagon are the same thing from town's PoV. They're only discernible to scum.
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Well sorry for "playing stupid" but I got my bussing definition from here (Bussing - MafiaWiki) and it says: Bussing is the act of distancing yourself from your scum partners.
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I really think Risen is just misusing the term.
If we take that aside, what else do you draw from this, Ange?
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He is still a scummy fuck backpadelling and making excuses.
##Vote Risen
On September 07 2012 01:33 Risen wrote:Oh... I was just going with the flow man :/ Also, that entire post I just made was directed under the impression that you thought I was scummy here. Apparently it was directed at Keirathi. My previous post makes little sense now :/ He gives a reason why he made a post quoting a post made AFTER his initial post.
When called out he finds another place where is is "called out as scum":
On September 07 2012 01:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: at least prplhz was voting on something that was a pile of shit, unlike Risen Looks like he's calling me out there :/
Keirathi already pointed out his backpadelling on the whole prplhz-is-scum deal. It's some mighty stupid pressure if you don't think he is scum
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Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised.
1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling.
Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out.
2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do?
Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting.
3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there.
##unvote ##vote Keirathi
So maybe getting the game rolling wasn't such a bad idea
Prplhz THIS is how you respond to someone who has made a case on you if you genuinely think they're scum. Don't use OMGUS unless you're trying to convey that they wouldn't usually be this horrible, but are using being bad as a screen.
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On September 07 2012 02:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:14 Risen wrote: I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought. But you would have to be scum with marv for him to "bus" you. If he's scum and you're town, he could be starting a wagon on you. However, bus and wagon are the same thing from town's PoV. They're only discernible to scum.
I'll respond to this for the sake of answering for other people.
1) Assume marv is scum 2) Assume he wants you all to think I'm scum 3) he's therefor trying to make it appear as a bus.
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Like this: Dirkzor isn't that bad. No one is that bad. OMGUS in effect. Coming in to back up a scum buddy's post?
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##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong.
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On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised.
1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling. You're right. Discussion is the more important thing early in day 1. Which is why I gave you the BotD early, and questioned prplhz instead of you. And yes, I know that their response to the "pressure" can be telling. I said that exact same thing yesterday.
On September 06 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote: *snip* People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case. *snip*
Your early case didn't necessarily make you scummy, but its just more icing on the cake to the rest of your posts.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out.
2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do?
Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting. So why would you, as a "townie", want to put up a smokescreen to appear like you are scumhunting without actually scumhunting. Thats what scum want to do, not townies.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: 3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there. The game I pointed out, you were on the same team, both as townie. Which was contradictory to the point you made. You used an "I think..." argument which was blatantly wrong to strengthen your WIFOM bullshit about you being wary of marv.
As far as you using the term bus, I didn't actually call you out on that. I asked for an explanation because it made no sense. Like I said to marv, it crossed my mind that it could have been a scumslip, but in context it didn't make sense as a scumslip.
In context, and after your recent response, it sounds like you are genuinely misusing the word, which isn't alignment, indicative in any way.
FYI: It means mafia throwing their teamates "under the bus" to gain towncred. It has nothing to do with mafia making cases on townies.
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Where is my smokescreen? Is my first case bad? Probably. It certainly isn't the only grounds that should be used to lynch someone, but I do feel like calling someone out for scummy behavior is perfectly acceptable, and a vote can be used to add pressure and get a response.
How has no one noted this part of his first post?
On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks
Giving himself a reason to be out of the thread for almost 24 hours? Then when I pressure him he is suddenly very active in the thread? Combine that with his posting after being pressured and I am leaning scum on him. I'm leaning more scum on you, though.
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On September 07 2012 03:19 Risen wrote: Where is my smokescreen? Is my first case bad? Probably. It certainly isn't the only grounds that should be used to lynch someone, but I do feel like calling someone out for scummy behavior is perfectly acceptable, and a vote can be used to add pressure and get a response.
I was just using your own wording.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting.
You admitted to a lack of pressure on someone who could just as easily be down or scum. Then say that lack of pressure is a smokescreen to give the appearance of scumhunting.
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EBWOP: Also, my smokescreen comment was saying "Keirathi is using my lack of pressure on someone to indicate me being scum. This is a smokescreen so it appears he's scum hunting, but he isn't." Your case isn't a "case".
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Also, for that matter, you repeatedly said "prplhz is scum". Except you never actually tried to convince anyone of it. You just kept repeating it ad nauseum, then when people started calling you out on it, you backtracked into saying "I never really thought he was scum anyways".
There's no townie motivation for that. Period.
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On September 07 2012 03:29 Keirathi wrote: Also, for that matter, you repeatedly said "prplhz is scum". Except you never actually tried to convince anyone of it. You just kept repeating it ad nauseum, then when people started calling you out on it, you backtracked into saying "I never really thought he was scum anyways".
There's no townie motivation for that. Period.
Except that whole starting discussion thing.
And the fact that I still find prplhz scummy. My backtrack is nonexistent you just keep saying that over and over b/c you have no real point.
I also find you more scummy than prplhz, my vote is where it should be.
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Your backtrack is nonexistant? I fucking quoted it in my case against you, but here, I'll do it again.
On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: *snip*
From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
Now you're just blatantly lying. "I NEVER ACTUALLY THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM". But you said he was scum like 6 times before you said that quote.
Can any townie possibly be this dumb? I mean, I know you have your pants-on-head retarded moments (Hint: your cop claim in Not Themed), but THIS dumb?
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First of. Can we stop using all those damn abbreviations... They only confuse the leaving shit out of me because I rarely use them myself. I'm still not 100% sure what WIFOM means... If you think someone suck you write "oh my god you suck". Thanks
I don't put much stock in prplhz's first post. If you read the entire sentence its clear its sarcasm. I'll read the thread and tell you who is scum. That is impossible (or stupid if he is scum) to know who is scum and thus the sentence is clearly sarcasm. Also he have been here and active beyond just defending himself.
I still think you have done scummy things Risen. That or blatantly stupid moves as a townie. You CLEARLY changed your view on prplhz from "He is scum. I'm 65% sure" to "I never actually thought he was scum". Same goes with your "You called me scum *here*" "Oh that was after my post? Then you called me scum *there*!"
I actually don't like keirathi all that much either at the moment... But that should and shall not change my view on your level of scummyness, Risen.
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Ok, guess I have to assume Risen is just misusing the term bussing.
@Risen: The more you post the less I am convinced of town motivation for your play.
@Dirkzor: What exactly is it in Keir's play that you don't like?
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On September 07 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong.
What feels wrong? The case on Risen? Or Risen's defense?
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On September 07 2012 03:41 Keirathi wrote:Your backtrack is nonexistant? I fucking quoted it in my case against you, but here, I'll do it again. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: *snip*
From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make. Now you're just blatantly lying. " I NEVER ACTUALLY THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM". But you said he was scum like 6 times before you said that quote. Can any townie possibly be this dumb? I mean, I know you have your pants-on-head retarded moments (Hint: your cop claim in Not Themed), but THIS dumb?
Why are you trying to take me out of context? I didn't actually think he was scum from his first post. I don't know who scum is, there's only varying levels of how scummy I think someone is being. Prpl's responses make him seem more and more scum, but even were he to be lynched and flip town I wouldn't be surprised. Just like if you get lynched and flip town I won't be surprised. It's day 1. Why are you trying to force things into he thinks this person is 100% scum or 100% town. That isn't how it works. You're looking very much like scum on his back foot trying to muddy up the waters so I'm not sure if I should just stop responding to you.
On September 07 2012 03:44 Dirkzor wrote: First of. Can we stop using all those damn abbreviations... They only confuse the leaving shit out of me because I rarely use them myself. I'm still not 100% sure what WIFOM means... If you think someone suck you write "oh my god you suck". Thanks
I don't put much stock in prplhz's first post. If you read the entire sentence its clear its sarcasm. I'll read the thread and tell you who is scum. That is impossible (or stupid if he is scum) to know who is scum and thus the sentence is clearly sarcasm. Also he have been here and active beyond just defending himself.
I still think you have done scummy things Risen. That or blatantly stupid moves as a townie. You CLEARLY changed your view on prplhz from "He is scum. I'm 65% sure" to "I never actually thought he was scum". Same goes with your "You called me scum *here*" "Oh that was after my post? Then you called me scum *there*!"
I actually don't like keirathi all that much either at the moment... But that should and shall not change my view on your level of scummyness, Risen.
This is such a scummy post. Why are you and Keirathi so intent on taking what I say and twisting it? Scum brothers defending each other? Note the bold. "Oh I'm suspicious of him (if Keir flips scum you have something to point to) but I'm not voting him. I'm also not going to state exactly why I find him scummy."
Also, just brushing off prpl's entire first post as sarcasm? What?
Why not do the same for me. Every one of my posts has been sarcastic. What a joke.
On September 07 2012 04:06 Ange777 wrote: Ok, guess I have to assume Risen is just misusing the term bussing.
@Risen: The more you post the less I am convinced of town motivation for your play.
@Dirkzor: What exactly is it in Keir's play that you don't like?
You sound like Marvel.
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TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure."
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On September 07 2012 04:09 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong. What feels wrong? The case on Risen? Or Risen's defense?
Since he unvoted me I'm guessing the case on me combined with Dirk's jumping on me.
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EBWOP: Two posts above this one. Change that by to I'm lol
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On September 07 2012 04:09 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong. What feels wrong? The case on Risen? Or Risen's defense? I'm very interested in this too and you should write this in your next post thank you.
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On September 07 2012 04:18 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:09 Ange777 wrote:On September 07 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong. What feels wrong? The case on Risen? Or Risen's defense? I'm very interested in this too and you should write this in your next post thank you.
everyone seemed so quick to jump on him, and it's convenient for people to do so.
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On September 07 2012 03:44 Dirkzor wrote: First of. Can we stop using all those damn abbreviations... They only confuse the leaving shit out of me because I rarely use them myself. I'm still not 100% sure what WIFOM means... If you think someone suck you write "oh my god you suck". Thanks
also to this, no. They are common mafia abbreviatons and if you don't understand them that's your bloody problem, not the other players, and it's down to YOU to fix.
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On September 07 2012 04:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:06 Ange777 wrote: Ok, guess I have to assume Risen is just misusing the term bussing.
@Risen: The more you post the less I am convinced of town motivation for your play.
@Dirkzor: What exactly is it in Keir's play that you don't like?
You sound like Marvel.
How am I supposed to take this? And why does it feel like every second post you make has to have a reference to marv?
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On September 07 2012 04:31 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:10 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 04:06 Ange777 wrote: Ok, guess I have to assume Risen is just misusing the term bussing.
@Risen: The more you post the less I am convinced of town motivation for your play.
@Dirkzor: What exactly is it in Keir's play that you don't like?
You sound like Marvel. How am I supposed to take this? And why does it feel like every second post you make has to have a reference to marv?
Marvel is one of 4/5 active players in this game? He's probably going to come up a lot. You might as well say why do you keep referencing prpl, why do you keep referencing keir? You're seeing something where there is nothing.
I was simply referring to the fact that marvel always tells me to shut up and stop posting.
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A better question for you to ask is why aren't you harping on the people who aren't active in this game. I'm going to preempt said question by asking...
Why are some people just not posting? It seems obvious to me in this 9 player setup lurking is a viable strategy to live past day 1, but I don't necessarily think that's very pro-town.
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@prplhz:
On September 07 2012 00:19 prplhz wrote: I can totally buy that and since Risen isn't going down today.
##Vote Keirathi
You posted this within the first half of day 1 and switched your vote from Risen to Keir. Why? Though you explain that you believe your vote won't matter much if it stays on Risen, it probably won't matter much if it is on Keir as well at this very moment.
Now that the Risen case has gained more momentum will you be switching your vote back to him? Your voting behaviour seems odd.
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On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense.
Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat.
If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable.
But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever.
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On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever.
Not true.
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On September 07 2012 04:46 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever. Not true. Which part?
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On September 07 2012 04:41 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:19 prplhz wrote: I can totally buy that and since Risen isn't going down today.
##Vote Keirathi You posted this within the first half of day 1 and switched your vote from Risen to Keir. Why? Though you explain that you believe your vote won't matter much if it stays on Risen, it probably won't matter much if it is on Keir as well at this very moment. Now that the Risen case has gained more momentum will you be switching your vote back to him? Your voting behaviour seems odd.
I'm also very interested in this question. Your vote away from me, as I have already pointed out in the thread and is more relevant now than ever, didn't make much sense for the reasons given. I was tied for first in voting at the time. There was every possibility for me to be lynched, and since that point it has only become MORE likely that I would be lynched. To me this reads as trying to get off a lynch of someone he knows to be townie so when I flip he isn't on me gaining himself town cred.
I haven't flipped yet so it isn't too telling to anyone but me. If I AM lynched/shot, though, I think this part of prpl's play needs to be examined.
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On September 07 2012 04:48 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:46 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever. Not true. Which part?
That one part about that one thing.
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Yea okay.
marvellosity points out that Risen does a scumslip. This scumslip isn't just for Risen though, it also implicates marvellosity as well. Bussing requires two scum, not one. marvellosity realizes that if Risen is lynched it is only a matter of time before someone figures this out and so he backs off. His backing off is also weird, it's allegedly because the lynch gained momentum but he doesn't say this before he is called out, he just says "I have my reasons but I'm not going to explain" and then the explanation is like, 10 words long. I don't like this one bit and I'd rather lynch Risen and then we can talk about marvellosity tomorrow.
##Vote Risen
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I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact.
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On September 07 2012 05:05 prplhz wrote: Yea okay.
marvellosity points out that Risen does a scumslip. This scumslip isn't just for Risen though, it also implicates marvellosity as well. Bussing requires two scum, not one. marvellosity realizes that if Risen is lynched it is only a matter of time before someone figures this out and so he backs off. His backing off is also weird, it's allegedly because the lynch gained momentum but he doesn't say this before he is called out, he just says "I have my reasons but I'm not going to explain" and then the explanation is like, 10 words long. I don't like this one bit and I'd rather lynch Risen and then we can talk about marvellosity tomorrow.
##Vote Risen
and i thought it was only Risen I had to give the dumb points out to
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I just read over it again and it's even stupider
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On September 07 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact. Risen wasn't getting lynched at that point and Keirathi was to get something else going and he was looking dodgy too, I already expressed my suspicions of him in the thread. I read some of his other games then and this appears to be how he's playing all the time so not as worried anymore.
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Okay I don't sign up for these games to be called stupid or even stupider than stupid. If you think I'm wrong then prove me wrong by actually doing something that looks townie.
Thanks.
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On September 07 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact. Risen wasn't getting lynched at that point and Keirathi was to get something else going and he was looking dodgy too, I already expressed my suspicions of him in the thread. I read some of his other games then and this appears to be how he's playing all the time so not as worried anymore.
You did?
On September 07 2012 00:19 prplhz wrote: I can totally buy that and since Risen isn't going down today.
##Vote Keirathi
This is you doing that? Jokes lol
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Would you like me to write out in detail why it is? Would that make you feel better?
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:28 marvellosity wrote: Then don't be stupid
No more posts like this.
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says BH. Mr "I call people dicks 100 times a game". fine.
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EBWOP: I'd also like to point out that prpl is voting for me saying that now I can be lynched, but before it wasn't looking like it. In both cases I had two votes (first time prpl/marvel, this time keir/dirk). Your logic is bad yo :/
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
If you have a problem with the rules of this game, we can discuss it afterwards. I'm always glad to improve my hosting. That being said, we save that for the post-game. This section is in the OP, and has been there since it was put up, and I expect everyone to follow it:
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally. Stuff like "this argument is dumb because XYZ" is fine. Stuff like "you are doing ABC, which is dumb" or "you're dumb if you do ABC" is mostly fine. Stuff like "you're dumb. lolooloooo" is not fine. I'm very verbal about people getting out of line.
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I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.
Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.
Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.
scum marvellosity is a fucking genius.
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Going into meta here, and I said people shouldn't, but relating directly to the possibility of a marv/Risen scum team just look at Death Note mafia which just finished. I was so scummy that game marv and I were laughing about it, but he didn't ever call me on it in thread. This doesn't clear the potential for me to be scum, and it doesn't clear the potential for marv to be scum, but I think it's telling for your marv/risen scum team point.
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meta is totally irrelevant, it would just be the most stupid scumplay ever and I am not known for those.
And no, it's not so stupid it's brilliant either.
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EBWOP: Also Dirk, if you want to look for an example of REAL sarcasm look at the post Marv just made. THAT is sarcasm, not what you said about prpl. I'm shocked you'd even voice such thoughts about prpl using sarcasm in his first post lol. There's nothing sarcastic about that at all.
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On September 07 2012 05:37 marvellosity wrote: meta is totally irrelevant, it would just be the most stupid scumplay ever and I am not known for those.
And no, it's not so stupid it's brilliant either.
However, if Risen is town and Marv is scum it IS the perfect opportunity for Marv to get a mislynch on Risen going. Maybe now that the wagon is going you've realized town will do the job for you? I doubt that, though, since there really isn't a wagon moving except by Keir/Dirk/prpl, and I'm not really scared of their votes since their actions have been so scummy.
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On September 07 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact. Risen wasn't getting lynched at that point and Keirathi was to get something else going and he was looking dodgy too, I already expressed my suspicions of him in the thread. I read some of his other games then and this appears to be how he's playing all the time so not as worried anymore. Where did you call me suspicious? You argued with me about me calling your vote on Risen an OMGUS vote, and said something about me having a strong opinion on you based on that conversation. But I don't see where you ever actually said you had any suspicion towards me. You just hopped on the bandwagon after marv made his case, and with basically no reasoning.
You're blatantly misrepresenting facts, just like Risen is.
But fuck me, I don't see both of you being scum. That would be quite a ballsy play to hop on each other very first thing.
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that makes no sense.
I wanna kill myself
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Also, where's vader, BL, and Zeph.
Vader has a vote on Risen but has disappeared, BL has a scummy feeling from Zeph and disappeared, Zeph has a vote on prplhz and disappeared.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Vote Count
Risen (4): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi prplhz (1): Zephirdd Keirathi (1): Risen
Not Voting (3): marvellosity, Ange777, Bluelightz
Currently, nobody is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~25 hours at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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On September 07 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: Also, where's vader, BL, and Zeph.
Vader has a vote on Risen but has disappeared, BL has a scummy feeling from Zeph and disappeared, Zeph has a vote on prplhz and disappeared.
Lol I completely blanked on vader voting for me. I'm going to laugh when scum are just using today to lurk and town is chasing itself in circles
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On September 07 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote:that makes no sense. I wanna kill myself
Wait what doesn't make sense about it? If you were scum you'd use that as an opportunity to make an easy lynch.
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On September 07 2012 05:43 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote:On September 07 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact. Risen wasn't getting lynched at that point and Keirathi was to get something else going and he was looking dodgy too, I already expressed my suspicions of him in the thread. I read some of his other games then and this appears to be how he's playing all the time so not as worried anymore. Where did you call me suspicious? You argued with me about me calling your vote on Risen an OMGUS vote, and said something about me having a strong opinion on you based on that conversation. But I don't see where you ever actually said you had any suspicion towards me. You just hopped on the bandwagon after marv made his case, and with basically no reasoning. You're blatantly misrepresenting facts, just like Risen is. But fuck me, I don't see both of you being scum. That would be quite a ballsy play to hop on each other very first thing.
I enjoy that you mimic exactly what I just said about prpl, but I'm blatantly misrepresenting facts (hint: you're the one misrepresenting ME. How can you claim to know what I was thinking when I am the one who posted what I did)
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On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.
Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.
Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.
scum marvellosity is a fucking genius. Something about this post bugs me.
You're right, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of scum marv bussing scum Risen. What about scum marv and townie Risen, though?
You're acknowledging that your posts are (at least partly), responsible for the Risen wagon that is forming. But you unvoted and distanced yourself from it.
Hmm...
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On September 07 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.
Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.
Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.
scum marvellosity is a fucking genius. Something about this post bugs me. You're right, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of scum marv bussing scum Risen. What about scum marv and townie Risen, though? You're acknowledging that your posts are (at least partly), responsible for the Risen wagon that is forming. But you unvoted and distanced yourself from it. Hmm...
It's like you're me in the past, but in the future. Is there a reason you're mimicking everything I say?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
How am I distanced from it? I'm the most associated with it because of my unvote.
Use your brain.
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On September 07 2012 06:09 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.
Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.
Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.
scum marvellosity is a fucking genius. Something about this post bugs me. You're right, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of scum marv bussing scum Risen. What about scum marv and townie Risen, though? You're acknowledging that your posts are (at least partly), responsible for the Risen wagon that is forming. But you unvoted and distanced yourself from it. Hmm... It's like you're me in the past, but in the future. Is there a reason you're mimicking everything I say? Honestly, I didn't see your post until you asked me this. The last post I saw on the other page was the one about sarcasm, and then i started typing up my post about prplhz. When it started a new page, I didn't realize there was an extra post to go back and look at.
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Since this came out WAY to big and I wanted to answer everything in 1 post I spoilered all the quotes.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 04:06 Ange777 wrote: Ok, guess I have to assume Risen is just misusing the term bussing.
@Risen: The more you post the less I am convinced of town motivation for your play.
@Dirkzor: What exactly is it in Keir's play that you don't like?
Keir started out by stating that it takes him time to make an opinion. He used "I think..." "I don't know..." and such a lot in his early post as pointed out by marv. He then suddenly have a clear cut opinion about Risen. While I agree that Risen is the scummiest so far the change in his posting is interesting. Mostly that. And gut feelings.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 04:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:44 Dirkzor wrote: First of. Can we stop using all those damn abbreviations... They only confuse the leaving shit out of me because I rarely use them myself. I'm still not 100% sure what WIFOM means... If you think someone suck you write "oh my god you suck". Thanks
I don't put much stock in prplhz's first post. If you read the entire sentence its clear its sarcasm. I'll read the thread and tell you who is scum. That is impossible (or stupid if he is scum) to know who is scum and thus the sentence is clearly sarcasm. Also he have been here and active beyond just defending himself.
I still think you have done scummy things Risen. That or blatantly stupid moves as a townie. You CLEARLY changed your view on prplhz from "He is scum. I'm 65% sure" to "I never actually thought he was scum". Same goes with your "You called me scum *here*" "Oh that was after my post? Then you called me scum *there*!"
I actually don't like keirathi all that much either at the moment... But that should and shall not change my view on your level of scummyness, Risen. This is such a scummy post. Why are you and Keirathi so intent on taking what I say and twisting it? Scum brothers defending each other? Note the bold. "Oh I'm suspicious of him (if Keir flips scum you have something to point to) but I'm not voting him. I'm also not going to state exactly why I find him scummy." Also, just brushing off prpl's entire first post as sarcasm? What? Why not do the same for me. Every one of my posts has been sarcastic. What a joke. Why is the post scummy? You fail to say that beside throwing random theories around. I AM suspicious of him since I have no clue who is scum and he have done stuff that rattle my scumbells (See above).
And regarding prplhz's first post. Maybe sarcasm is the wrong word, but I find it perfectly clear that the sentence you bolded and commented on - "everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum" - is not meant to be taken literally. I'd compare it to someone saying at the start of any bold game: Give the ball to me and I'll win this for us. Everybody knows its not going to happen that way but its a sign of confidence. I'm not brushing of his entire post. Just that line. Rest of prp's first post is just him being lazy. So the whole post is super non.allignment telling in my opinion. + Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." After re-reading I'll give you that it can be read like you say. But I'll also give Keir that the context of the question from Zephirdd lead me to think you meant prp's scummyness during the whole thread, not just the first post. I'll just disregard this info as it could be either way.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 04:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:44 Dirkzor wrote: First of. Can we stop using all those damn abbreviations... They only confuse the leaving shit out of me because I rarely use them myself. I'm still not 100% sure what WIFOM means... If you think someone suck you write "oh my god you suck". Thanks
also to this, no. They are common mafia abbreviatons and if you don't understand them that's your bloody problem, not the other players, and it's down to YOU to fix. What I meant is that using WIFOM or OMGUS just leads to confusion because people misuse them and people have different opinion about what it actually means. Confusion leads to anger. Anger leads to hate and hate leads to the Dark Side!
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Dirk, why do you think Risen is scum and not a bad townie?
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Mostly the part where he first used one quote to explain a post. When that quote was after the post he found another quote from earlier. It's just to... eh.. weird for him to be town.
That and he attacked BL's post very hard when BL was actually saying that he believed Risen's VT claim.
And the VT claim. Which is stupid. No reason or need for him to claim.
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That all being said I liked his defence of himself and his posting since my vote.
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Dirk say, "Why is the post scummy? You fail to say that beside throwing random theories around."
Risen already answer when he say...
On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure."
Oh wait, turns out later in his post Dirk Dirk answers this himself...
"After re-reading I'll give you that it can be read like you say. "
Wat. Then why are you voting for me, again?
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On September 07 2012 06:42 Dirkzor wrote: Mostly the part where he first used one quote to explain a post. When that quote was after the post he found another quote from earlier. It's just to... eh.. weird for him to be town.
That and he attacked BL's post very hard when BL was actually saying that he believed Risen's VT claim.
And the VT claim. Which is stupid. No reason or need for him to claim.
Oh you mean the very similarly formatted quote to the one I first linked? Dude your case is strong. Super strong.
Oh so attacking scummy things is a scum tell now? I knew he was supporting me, I was calling him out for the scummy part of his post. I don't care if someone supports me, I'll call anyone out for scummy shit they do.
Your insistence on voting for me in spite of feeling better about me is ridiculous. What about Keirathi? The other suspicious guy, remember him? Want to tell us whether he's been creeping up your scum meter? Or is he still just suspicious.
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EBWOP: I also like how all your evidence to me being scum actually points to me being bad town.
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On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. 1) Defensive behavior? Where? I'm just telling prpl to stop digging himself a hole. 2) I don't know who scum and town are beyond myself. I'm going to point out anything and everything I find that's scummy, including about people who "support" me. Why on earth would you find that scummy? Looks like you're reaching trying to paint something as scummy when it's not. Not cool my dude. Lol, and then I like how you point out the same exact thing I do in your case post. Real nice. Bolded: He didn't. You clearly thought that BL was "out to get you" and this made a defence. That was not even close to what BL was doing. Getting overly defensive when not needed IS a scumtell.
Just because I haven't moved my vote yet doesn't mean I'm not reconsidering constantly. I'm not "insisting" on voting you. I voted you once. So stop acting butthurt and loose the aggresive hurt tone in your post. Its getting old. Same goes to you Marv.
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I can't write anymore. I'm tired and going to bed.
Will re-read everything tomorrow morning.
I want BL and zephirdd to post more!
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Just re-read the entire thread. The post on Risen I originally picked up on is still giving me the most wtf. And Kei is also right when he said Risen was calling prplhz scum but then says he didn't think he was. That's super scummy.
But are scum really just letting half their team go without a fight?
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Lol I'm so sorry Dirk, I read BL and thought Zephir. Omg I'm so bad this game. Scum is probably laughing at me like I was laughing at town last game :/
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The sad part is I feel like I have some really good stuff but people are only looking at where I derped :/
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what's the really good stuff?
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I feel my reads on prpl and Keir are good T_T
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pick one and tell me what makes your read so good on them
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On September 07 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote: pick one and tell me what makes your read so good on them
Keir. My case on him is solid imo.
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EBWOP: Oh what specifically. I feel like I was able to pick apart his "case" on me quite well. I feel like most of the stuff he said isn't actually concrete at all.
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On September 07 2012 04:39 Risen wrote: A better question for you to ask is why aren't you harping on the people who aren't active in this game. I'm going to preempt said question by asking...
Why are some people just not posting? It seems obvious to me in this 9 player setup lurking is a viable strategy to live past day 1, but I don't necessarily think that's very pro-town.
&
On September 07 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: Also, where's vader, BL, and Zeph.
Vader has a vote on Risen but has disappeared, BL has a scummy feeling from Zeph and disappeared, Zeph has a vote on prplhz and disappeared.
Sucks reading this when there is like 4 more pages for me to read still so just fyi, I work alot and I get home around 930-1000pm Central Time. So expect blacks from me based on that time frame with random days off where I will be more active.
On September 07 2012 06:04 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: Also, where's vader, BL, and Zeph.
Vader has a vote on Risen but has disappeared, BL has a scummy feeling from Zeph and disappeared, Zeph has a vote on prplhz and disappeared. Lol I completely blanked on vader voting for me. I'm going to laugh when scum are just using today to lurk and town is chasing itself in circles
q_q give me a sec more to come
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Risen, first off, your entire game this game feels scummy for various reasons. I am feeling fairly good about the vote on you.
1. Your opening post seemed very thought out to create a very exact effect... and it was clearly planned before the game started. You claimed Green. You had a big picture. You were dead set on marketing your green-ness ASAP while throwing a stone at another. This seems very, um, opportunistic scum to me.
2. I was going to list out a huge number of sub points but I think its better left at this: you are squirming like scum trying to be very active. Your goal is to use a large amount of direct response to defend yourself.
2a. A town player would have literally laughed off the early pressure. This whole vote on you seems EXTREMELY important to you as in it effects a large portion of your chance to win the game (as in if you are scum and scum dies thats 50% of their players).
I feel you are fairly scummy and a good bet for a day 1 lynch.
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To be very clear, the posts you have made since my vote on you have SIGNIFICANTLY increaded my feeling that you are a good choice for my vote.
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That was so scummy v7 lol. 1) I don't agree with you, I wrote it after the day started and it was RUSHED b/c I wanted to be the one to be Fruitdealer lol. As I was writing it I kept f5'ing to make sure no one else claimed him. Turns out he's no longer with us a la day post. RIP Fruitdealer.
2) "I was going to point out scummy stuff, but I couldn't find much and I'll just wagon." 2a) I did laugh off the early pressure. What are you talking about? I'm still laughing off your and the three other guys' votes. Note my recent posts. Nice try v7.
That's a lot of talk and yet you don't actually reference much. I find it interesting that you can find my posting as the day goes on MORE scummy when Dirk Dirk finds it LESS so. You scum trying to justify your lynch without actually saying anything scummy about me?
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EBWOP: and I don't even think Dirk Dirk is going to stay on me rofl.
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On September 07 2012 04:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:48 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:46 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever. Not true. Which part? That one part about that one thing.
This is possible the worst quote chain in the entire thread combined with the worst defence I've ever seen. Can't believed I missed this the first time around.
Risen why don't you just answer the mans question? Keirathi got a point and the timeline he was setting up fits what I also read in the thread.
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I'm GMT +7 yo, not like you americans :p.
Aaaaand reading the thread.
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@Risen: Explain this!
On September 07 2012 02:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch. Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck.
On September 07 2012 05:40 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:37 marvellosity wrote: meta is totally irrelevant, it would just be the most stupid scumplay ever and I am not known for those.
And no, it's not so stupid it's brilliant either. However, if Risen is town and Marv is scum it IS the perfect opportunity for Marv to get a mislynch on Risen going. Maybe now that the wagon is going you've realized town will do the job for you? I doubt that, though, since there really isn't a wagon moving except by Keir/Dirk/prpl, and I'm not really scared of their votes since their actions have been so scummy.
On September 07 2012 06:05 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote:that makes no sense. I wanna kill myself Wait what doesn't make sense about it? If you were scum you'd use that as an opportunity to make an easy lynch.
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On September 07 2012 18:25 Bluelightz wrote: I'm GMT +7 yo, not like you americans :p.
Aaaaand reading the thread.
and?
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@prplhz:
On September 07 2012 05:05 prplhz wrote: Yea okay.
marvellosity points out that Risen does a scumslip. This scumslip isn't just for Risen though, it also implicates marvellosity as well. Bussing requires two scum, not one. marvellosity realizes that if Risen is lynched it is only a matter of time before someone figures this out and so he backs off. His backing off is also weird, it's allegedly because the lynch gained momentum but he doesn't say this before he is called out, he just says "I have my reasons but I'm not going to explain" and then the explanation is like, 10 words long. I don't like this one bit and I'd rather lynch Risen and then we can talk about marvellosity tomorrow.
##Vote Risen
Is this the only reason why you are voting Risen over Keir? The alleged scumslip was that stupid that most of us have brushed it off as a misunderstanding about the term bussing.
I am really not a big fan of Risen, especially as he has contradicted himself more than once and has yet to provide a satisfying response to my last question but I am not convinced by you either.
First you unvote Risen who was tied in votes with you to vote Keir. I still don't get the need to vote for Keir and I especially don't understand why you would have to switch your vote this early in day 1. (It really did nothing!) I know you'll say it was simply a pressure vote as the Risen case didn't get much consent. But I don't think you have done much to get that consent. If we look through your posts around that time it's a lot of discussion with Risen about who made the "real" OMGUS vote and then suddenly a vote switch. Why? You have plenty of time to convince people of your scum read. But no, you don't. Instead you jump back on Risen once people have done that job for you. Scummy!
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Ange, what's your definitive stance on Risen atm? Other than "I'm not really a big fan"
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On September 07 2012 21:12 Quatol wrote: Ange, what's your definitive stance on Risen atm? Other than "I'm not really a big fan"
for filter
i'm so bad
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Scummy. Shares my top scum read place with prplhz at the moment. My vote depends on the way they deal with my questions.
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what do you make of Zeph?
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i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today
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It's between Risen and Zeph for me today.
Zeph for being totes inactive and uninterested.
Risen for being a scummy motherfucker, with the possibility that he's just being terrible.
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Zeph has not really commented on other players besides Risen. But at least he has taken a very definite stance on Risen so I am not that concerned with him at the moment.
Why not lynch prplhz?
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At the moment he seems too interested to be scum
Zeph took a definitive stance early, but instead of coming back to the thread to contribute further, he has remained absent
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Interested??? How does his behaviour look like an interested player? He did this one case on Risen, jumped on Keir, switched his vote back to Risen and has not contributed to the discussion since then.
And what do you make of Bluelightz? He gave some reads and has not posted since popping into the thread 3 hours ago.
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Check out Dwarf Fortress for how scum prplhz played there.
BL is suspicious for reasons you mention. Desperately need to hear more from him. But BL is more known for doing stupid shit like that than Zephirdd is for being afk as town.
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Ok, compared to Dwarf Fortress he definitely seems more interested in this game. But that's one game. Or is that his usual meta as scum?
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erm, he's played a couple of other minis as scum somewhat recently... NMM2 I think, and... arg. Movie Mini Mafia. Not quite as detached as Dwarf, but reasonably less so than here I think.
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EBWOP: by reasonably less so, i mean less interested or more detached. Didn't come out right there.
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On September 07 2012 21:22 Ange777 wrote: Zeph has not really commented on other players besides Risen. But at least he has taken a very definite stance on Risen so I am not that concerned with him at the moment.
Why not lynch prplhz?
super easy to do, btw.
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like, the easiest thing to do as mafia is to come down hard on Risen.
It's the townies that need to work out whether Risen is mafia or absurd town.
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My promise from yesterday:
Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check!
Scum marv (NMMII)
This game's marv
Do you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why:
On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today
See the stance? yes, see why? no.
(Marv could you explain please?)
marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph:
Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.
Why?
v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else.
Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie.
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On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
I explained my prplhz thing.
Secondly I post a bunch of one-liners AS EITHER ALIGNMENT.
As I have told you before. And is easily verifiable.
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On September 07 2012 21:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:22 Ange777 wrote: Zeph has not really commented on other players besides Risen. But at least he has taken a very definite stance on Risen so I am not that concerned with him at the moment.
Why not lynch prplhz? super easy to do, btw.
I know but at least we can hold him respon sible for this stance at some point. Bluelightz however with his weak and wishy-washy reads is more scummy to me than Zeph right now.
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BL is weak and wishy-washy. Seriously, go look at the just-finished NMM3.
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I'm pretty sure BL is town.
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On September 07 2012 22:05 Dirkzor wrote: I'm pretty sure BL is town.
Based on what? Meta?
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Dirk, tell me about Zeph dear.
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He is playing like a town BL should and does play. So yes meta. And he haven't done anything scummy.
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You made a fair point, I just read through NMM III.
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On September 07 2012 22:07 marvellosity wrote: Dirk, tell me about Zeph dear.
Zephirdd always tickles my scumbells. Like ALWAYS. I can never read him. Same this game.
He gives a bad reason for voting prplhz over Risen - scummy.
He then talks about the stupid kenpachi rule for the rest of his posts.
He complains that no one is posting while not really producing anything himself.
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@V7: rhetorical question. If Risen was unlynchable today who would you vote?
(actually anyone can answer, but i want V7 to answer the most)
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On September 07 2012 22:17 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 22:07 marvellosity wrote: Dirk, tell me about Zeph dear. Zephirdd always tickles my scumbells. Like ALWAYS. I can never read him. Same this game. He gives a bad reason for voting prplhz over Risen - scummy. He then talks about the stupid kenpachi rule for the rest of his posts. He complains that no one is posting while not really producing anything himself.
yes, I hate this the most.
I am going to London this evening to go to the theatre, so will not have access to PC. But I will be able to phone check/post in time for deadline.
At the moment I think Zeph and Risen are both good lynches. I'm waiting to see what Risen does today to finally decide whether I think he's bad town or scum. I will explain later, before deadline (I don't want to tell him what I think he should be doing).
##Vote: Zephirdd
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Vote Count
Risen (4): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi prplhz (1): Zephirdd Keirathi (1): Risen Zephirdd (1): marvellosity
Not Voting (2): Ange777, Bluelightz
Currently, nobody is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~7 hours at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Ange I just meant now that there's people on me, a scum Marv would hop off me for that tasty town cred.
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I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.)
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V7 and prpl have the shakiest reasoning for voting me. I can understand why you voted him.
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On September 08 2012 00:14 Risen wrote: Ange I just meant now that there's people on me, a scum Marv would hop off me for that tasty town cred.
As already mentioned, I would get no town credit for it. Anything with substance to say?
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On September 08 2012 01:13 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 00:14 Risen wrote: Ange I just meant now that there's people on me, a scum Marv would hop off me for that tasty town cred. As already mentioned, I would get no town credit for it. Anything with substance to say?
I was just responding to Ange's question here.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 19:38 Ange777 wrote:@Risen: Explain this! Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:10 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch. Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:40 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 05:37 marvellosity wrote: meta is totally irrelevant, it would just be the most stupid scumplay ever and I am not known for those.
And no, it's not so stupid it's brilliant either. However, if Risen is town and Marv is scum it IS the perfect opportunity for Marv to get a mislynch on Risen going. Maybe now that the wagon is going you've realized town will do the job for you? I doubt that, though, since there really isn't a wagon moving except by Keir/Dirk/prpl, and I'm not really scared of their votes since their actions have been so scummy. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:05 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote:that makes no sense. I wanna kill myself Wait what doesn't make sense about it? If you were scum you'd use that as an opportunity to make an easy lynch.
If I was someone else and saw Risen get lynched it would hold a small amount of weight in my mind as town cred for people who weren't on him. Is this bad? Maybe, but that's just how it would be for me.
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BL?!?!?! V7? Your null read? You only mentioned Risen earlier when you wrote you believed his VT claim. What about everything else he have done? Still think he is town and why?
I won't be here at deadline since I will most likely be drunk...
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Dirk is giving me scummy feelings.
1) Says he most likely won't be voting me at deadline, still hasn't unvoted me and now he's conveniently going to be absent around deadline.
2) Outs his "town reads" openly in thread. As a town player there's no reason to do this you'll just get your town reads shot. As scum there's plenty of reasons to do this since it makes the person you're calling town like you.
3) Calls Keir scummy, and does nothing about it.
I don't think there's a possibility of a Dirk/Keir scum team at this point in time, so I'm going to
##unvote
We'll see what continues to develop in this thread and I'll place my vote on someone. I still have Keir as my top scum read, but Dirk is trying so hard to make it up there.
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EBWOP: Also asking others to give their reads in thread, not posting cases himself just piggybacking off others stuff.
Yeah I'm going to
##vote: Dirkzor
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Gotta take my grandpa to the doctor, so trying to get a quick post in with my opinions on the other lynch candidates besides Risen, since I've talked about him enough and my opinion hasn't changed. Hopefully I'll be back before the deadline:
prplhz: I dislike a lot of his posts so far, but I do agree with marv that he has seemed a bit more interested and invested in this game than dwarfs, at least up until this point. I don't rule him out yet.
vader7: Null for now. Nothing he has done strikes me as particularly scummy, except his relative lurking, but not super townie either.
Zeph: Dirk's list of things basically hit the nail on the head. Add in his wording earlier "Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta." That feels...weird? Like, as a townie without extra information, wouldn't a more appropriate phrase be "Risen isn't playing like his scum meta" or something? Leaning scum, but I'm not sure if I think he's more scummy than Risen. I'll think on it more while I'm gone.
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On September 08 2012 01:23 Risen wrote: I don't think there's a possibility of a Dirk/Keir scum team at this point in time, so I'm going to
Why not? You were thinking yesterday that it was a possibility. What made you change your mind?
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EBWOP: In fact, it feels like point 3 would give you more reason to think that we were a scum team, not less. Your logic leaps don't make any sense to me :o
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On September 08 2012 01:30 Keirathi wrote: Gotta take my grandpa to the doctor, so trying to get a quick post in with my opinions on the other lynch candidates besides Risen, since I've talked about him enough and my opinion hasn't changed. Hopefully I'll be back before the deadline:
prplhz: I dislike a lot of his posts so far, but I do agree with marv that he has seemed a bit more interested and invested in this game than dwarfs, at least up until this point. I don't rule him out yet.
vader7: Null for now. Nothing he has done strikes me as particularly scummy, except his relative lurking, but not super townie either.
Zeph: Dirk's list of things basically hit the nail on the head. Add in his wording earlier "Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta." That feels...weird? Like, as a townie without extra information, wouldn't a more appropriate phrase be "Risen isn't playing like his scum meta" or something? Leaning scum, but I'm not sure if I think he's more scummy than Risen. I'll think on it more while I'm gone.
Hey look, there you go mimicking me again. Why do you think I'm scum? Seems to me you share my thoughts on a lot of things. Makes it weird that you're voting for me. It seems like I'm valuable to you so you can come in and claim thread presence later, when really all you do is echo what I and others have said in the past.
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On September 08 2012 01:33 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: In fact, it feels like point 3 would give you more reason to think that we were a scum team, not less. Your logic leaps don't make any sense to me :o
I disagree, I think he'd leave you alone entirely if he was your scum partner. I don't think it's smart for scum teams to bus each other day 1.
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On September 08 2012 01:23 Risen wrote: Dirk is giving me scummy feelings.
1) Says he most likely won't be voting me at deadline, still hasn't unvoted me and now he's conveniently going to be absent around deadline.
2) Outs his "town reads" openly in thread. As a town player there's no reason to do this you'll just get your town reads shot. As scum there's plenty of reasons to do this since it makes the person you're calling town like you.
3) Calls Keir scummy, and does nothing about it.
I don't think there's a possibility of a Dirk/Keir scum team at this point in time, so I'm going to
##unvote
We'll see what continues to develop in this thread and I'll place my vote on someone. I still have Keir as my top scum read, but Dirk is trying so hard to make it up there.
Way to overreact.
1) Never said that. Go back and read what I wrote. I wrote I was constantly reconsidering (which should be true for everyone - except scum). I never said I would unvote you. Conviently absent my ass! It's friday night. I get drunk Friday night.
2) I've outed 1 townread. And that was when the discussion was about that person. Also no one is going to shoot BL if he is town. At least I would never do that as scum (been there in "I'm a cop you idiot mafia").
3) Yes I think keir have done scummy stuff. I think you (risen) have done scummy stuff. Only got 1 vote...
You are reaching now Risen. You're reaching for stuff that isn't there and making blind accusation about my privat life. Like I would lie about it to win. For your infomation Mike Sheridan is playing in Tivoli at Fredags Rock (Friday Rock) tonight and I'll most likely go hear him play. Yes I said you looked better from posting after my vote but you are still the most scummy in the thread. This morning when rereading I found your top notch defence of Keir's accusation (that you still haven't answered btw) which was super scummy. And now a weird vote on me?
##Vote Risen (For emphasis!)
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On September 08 2012 01:39 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:33 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: In fact, it feels like point 3 would give you more reason to think that we were a scum team, not less. Your logic leaps don't make any sense to me :o I disagree, I think he'd leave you alone entirely if he was your scum partner. I don't think it's smart for scum teams to bus each other day 1.
I'd bus the living shit out of my teammate in a 2 scum setup. At least I wouldn't leave my scumpartner alone. (Again see I'm a cop you idiot mafia even though that game played out where I HAD to bus basicly)
Don't think about what scum might or might not. They do all sorts of crazy things (see drazerk)
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Dirkzor/Marv scum team looks like the best choice for a scum team right now if I had to say. That's probably me being paranoid about Marv, though. Dirk/v7? v7 might just be lazy town.
I'm trying to step away from the game and look at it as if I weren't Risen and someone else, but I can't justify voting Risen here. Who else has done as much for the thread? Who else has brought forward cases with sound reasoning behind them? I have yet to see proper defenses to the things I say, just people going, yeah that's scummy.
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On September 08 2012 01:38 Risen wrote: Zeph: Dirk's list of things basically hit the nail on the head. Add in his wording earlier "Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta." That feels...weird? Like, as a townie without extra information, wouldn't a more appropriate phrase be "Risen isn't playing like his scum meta" or something? Leaning scum, but I'm not sure if I think he's more scummy than Risen. I'll think on it more while I'm gone.
Hey look, there you go mimicking me again. Why do you think I'm scum? Seems to me you share my thoughts on a lot of things. Makes it weird that you're voting for me. It seems like I'm valuable to you so you can come in and claim thread presence later, when really all you do is echo what I and others have said in the past.[/QUOTE] Yes, you pointed it out first. But you havent mentioned it again since people started talking about Zeph, and I felt it was pertinent for my feelings towards him.
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On September 08 2012 01:38 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +Keirathi wrote: Zeph: Dirk's list of things basically hit the nail on the head. Add in his wording earlier "Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta." That feels...weird? Like, as a townie without extra information, wouldn't a more appropriate phrase be "Risen isn't playing like his scum meta" or something? Leaning scum, but I'm not sure if I think he's more scummy than Risen. I'll think on it more while I'm gone. Hey look, there you go mimicking me again. Why do you think I'm scum? Seems to me you share my thoughts on a lot of things. Makes it weird that you're voting for me. It seems like I'm valuable to you so you can come in and claim thread presence later, when really all you do is echo what I and others have said in the past. Yes, you pointed it out first. But you havent mentioned it again since people started talking about Zeph, and I felt it was pertinent for my feelings towards him.[/QUOTE]
EBWOP Formatting.
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On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum.
First time he actually calls prplhz being scum(without actually saying that directly to him) which was after my post.
Point: He thinks prplhz is scum.
On September 06 2012 08:11 Risen wrote:Why not? He's the scummiest one in thread so far.
He still thinks prplhz is scum
On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
Wait a second. I asked you to tell us why did you think he was scum chronologically, which is the moment you first thought he was scum, why was that. But you never actually thought he was scum?
Secondly, he was the scummiest guy in the thread!? I mean, I don't know about you, but the moment I think someone is scummy, is the moment I think someone is scum. There are varying degrees, but that's how it works. If he was the scummiest, how was he NOT scum?
On September 07 2012 03:31 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:29 Keirathi wrote: Also, for that matter, you repeatedly said "prplhz is scum". Except you never actually tried to convince anyone of it. You just kept repeating it ad nauseum, then when people started calling you out on it, you backtracked into saying "I never really thought he was scum anyways".
There's no townie motivation for that. Period. Except that whole starting discussion thing. And the fact that I still find prplhz scummy. My backtrack is nonexistent you just keep saying that over and over b/c you have no real point. I also find you more scummy than prplhz, my vote is where it should be. What so he is scummy. IS HE SCUM OR NOT RISEN? DO YOU THINK HE IS SCUM OR NOT, AND WHY? (that was a rhetorical question btw)
On September 07 2012 06:07 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:43 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote:On September 07 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I can't say that a Risen+marv scum team has not crossed my mind but your post does not explain your weird vote switch from Risen to Keir. You can't seriously believe that putting the vote on Keir had more impact. Risen wasn't getting lynched at that point and Keirathi was to get something else going and he was looking dodgy too, I already expressed my suspicions of him in the thread. I read some of his other games then and this appears to be how he's playing all the time so not as worried anymore. Where did you call me suspicious? You argued with me about me calling your vote on Risen an OMGUS vote, and said something about me having a strong opinion on you based on that conversation. But I don't see where you ever actually said you had any suspicion towards me. You just hopped on the bandwagon after marv made his case, and with basically no reasoning. You're blatantly misrepresenting facts, just like Risen is. But fuck me, I don't see both of you being scum. That would be quite a ballsy play to hop on each other very first thing. I enjoy that you mimic exactly what I just said about prpl, but I'm blatantly misrepresenting facts (hint: you're the one misrepresenting ME. How can you claim to know what I was thinking when I am the one who posted what I did) We don't. But you said a lot of stuff. And kept saying them afterwards. What you say is what we know about you, and if you contradict yourself so much in order to answer a case, then we can't know shit.
##unvote ##vote Risen HAMMER THAT
On September 07 2012 21:21 marvellosity wrote: It's between Risen and Zeph for me today.
Zeph for being totes inactive and uninterested.
Risen for being a scummy motherfucker, with the possibility that he's just being terrible. don't worry yo, I've just been drinkin'. I made like one post on the other game out of my cellphone just because that other one is near finished.
sorry for this lack of activity. don't expect me to post too constantly this weekend(it's a holiday here), but I'll do my best to read the thread and find scum.
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Risen you keep saying that you have made cases... But have you really? All you have done is calling people who wrote reason for yourself being scum as scum for using said reasons. You have called V7 scum after his case. Called Keir scum after his case and later called your defence a case on keir. Now you call me scum because I haven't unvoted you. Oh and Marv was scum because he unvoted you? Is that correct?
You are drowning and reaching for anything to grab on to. Or so it appears. I hope you are a good swimmer
Everyone voting is scum or what?
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And look at that response from Dirk! That was really emotional bud. No, you never said that exactly, but you were leaving yourself open to get off me if the wagon stopped. Outing a town read at all like that is stupid. Scum want to kill all town reads b/c that means they can't try and push a lynch on them. Again, same as with 1, I think he was just leaving himself open to swap his vote to Keir just in case the wagon moved onto him.
So what you're saying is, you've bussed people in the past, that is what you would do as scum, "see I'm town I'm not doing that!"
Rings hollow to me.
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About the bussing. That wasn't about this game (while it is still true I would bus my teammate if I were scum) specificly. It was generel advace that you acn't think what scum or wouldnt do.
And yes that was emotional because you basicly called me a liar about my personal life. Something I would never do to win a game of mafia.
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Since other people who I care about will probably think this is important or something... I thought I had already made my stance on this issue clear in the thread, but apparently I have to reply specifically to this post.
On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever.
You're not me. You don't know how I think. I was giving an explanation for my first post in that line. That's it. There is no outside context. If I was responding to a direct question of whether I thought prpl was town or scum and said, "I never actually thought he was scum." THEN you could freak out like you and Dirk have over this insignificant line. As it stands, when taken in context, I said I didn't think he was scum, I picked him b/c his post was the scummiest thing in thread thus far. His response to that initial pressure was scummy as shit, just like Dirk's response is scummy as shit and doesn't actually answer why he was leaving himself an opening to get off me and onto you should you become the next wagon.
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On September 08 2012 01:51 Dirkzor wrote: About the bussing. That wasn't about this game (while it is still true I would bus my teammate if I were scum) specificly. It was generel advace that you acn't think what scum or wouldnt do.
And yes that was emotional because you basicly called me a liar about my personal life. Something I would never do to win a game of mafia.
Why do you have to even bring your personal life up? I don't care about your shit, this is mafia. As it stands, it's awful convenient that your vote is on me and you will be gone. Scum Dirk doesn't have to lie about being gone. There's been plenty of time for town to get off me, but since there's 4 people on me, including you, then there HAS to be some townies on me. This means you're safe going away tonight and can leave your vote on me. I have no doubt that had someone else come into the thread and pointed out the things I've said about Keir and had people move onto Keir you'd have come in here with the same exact lines about being gone and swapped your vote to Keir.
I don't see you actually DOING anything in this thread. You're leeching off other people and not making your own cases. It IS convenient that you will be gone, that in no way calls you a liar. Your initial conclusion that you'd be called out for lying is quite telling, scum.
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On September 08 2012 01:53 Risen wrote:Since other people who I care about will probably think this is important or something... I thought I had already made my stance on this issue clear in the thread, but apparently I have to reply specifically to this post. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever. You're not me. You don't know how I think. I was giving an explanation for my first post in that line. That's it. There is no outside context. If I was responding to a direct question of whether I thought prpl was town or scum and said, "I never actually thought he was scum." THEN you could freak out like you and Dirk have over this insignificant line. As it stands, when taken in context, I said I didn't think he was scum, I picked him b/c his post was the scummiest thing in thread thus far. His response to that initial pressure was scummy as shit, just like Dirk's response is scummy as shit and doesn't actually answer why he was leaving himself an opening to get off me and onto you should you become the next wagon. That's all well and good, but thats NOT WHAT ZEPH ASKED. You didn't answer his question when you quoted it, you answered a completely different question that had an easy answer rather than the real question that would actually get you to explain your reasoning and the way you were thinking.
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On September 08 2012 01:56 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:53 Risen wrote:Since other people who I care about will probably think this is important or something... I thought I had already made my stance on this issue clear in the thread, but apparently I have to reply specifically to this post. On September 07 2012 04:44 Keirathi wrote:On September 07 2012 04:13 Risen wrote: TOWN DIRK AND KEIR WOULD NOT CONTINUOUSLY MISQUOTE ME!
The whole line.
"I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling."
I think it's pretty clear that by saying, "When I made my first post prpl was the scummiest guy in thread. I didn't actually think he was scum, but as he sounded scummiest it seemed best to choose him as the target of my pressure." I could maybe buy that explanation if I took all of your posts out of context, but in the context of the thread and what was going on, it doesn't make sense. Zephirdd asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, not why you voted for prplhz right off the bat. If he said "Risen, explain to me why you voted for prplhz 40 minutes into day 1", then you saying "Oh, I didn't really think he was scum, I was just trying to get the ball rolling and his post was the scummiest so far" is perfectly understandable. But he asked you why you thought prplhz was scum, which you had been saying repeatedly, even after you told him to calm down and scumhunt. And hell, you even had some decent reasons to think he was scum. So your answer to his question just doesnt fit with what he was asking, nor with what you had been saying for the previous 18 hours or whatever. You're not me. You don't know how I think. I was giving an explanation for my first post in that line. That's it. There is no outside context. If I was responding to a direct question of whether I thought prpl was town or scum and said, "I never actually thought he was scum." THEN you could freak out like you and Dirk have over this insignificant line. As it stands, when taken in context, I said I didn't think he was scum, I picked him b/c his post was the scummiest thing in thread thus far. His response to that initial pressure was scummy as shit, just like Dirk's response is scummy as shit and doesn't actually answer why he was leaving himself an opening to get off me and onto you should you become the next wagon. That's all well and good, but thats NOT WHAT ZEPH ASKED. You didn't answer his question when you quoted it, you answered a completely different question that had an easy answer rather than the real question that would actually get you to explain your reasoning and the way you were thinking.
You're probably right. I'm just telling you what I was responding to. Whether or not I actually responded to that specific question is irrelevant. It's probably scummy, and I'll discuss it post-game. The problem I find I have is I sit down and just type whatever comes to mind without filtering it. This leads to contradictions that shouldn't happen, and me answering things that weren't asked in the first place. If I wasn't me I'd think it was scummy, but I'd also look at all the other things I've done in thread and realize that scum wouldn't push cases so hard or with so much logic. I think my cases are very logical, something you can't say about scum cases. Now, the case being pushed on me is somewhat logical, because I've made mistakes, but it is incomplete because it doesn't look at the great good I've done in thread, instead focusing on the small blunders. This is what scum do, eventually townies make small mistakes, some more than others because some are worse, scum finds these small mistakes and exploits them. It is a townies duty not to panic and instead to continue making logical cases, that way even if I'm lynched, there are now concrete town cases in thread. That's what bugs me about prpl and anyone else in this game. Prpl responded by shitting himself openly in thread. He didn't do anything logical, he's not helping town should he be lynched. Town should play as if they're always about to take a bullet or be lynched. I don't see that from Dirk, prpl, or v7.
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Just to back up my points I'm making about my statements being logical, I say something and you come in at a later point in the thread and parrot what I've said. If you're town, shouldn't that point to someone else who's town thinking the same things as you?
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Vote Count
Risen (5): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi, Zephirdd Zephirdd (1): marvellosity vaderseven (1): Bluelightz Dirkzor (1): Risen
Not Voting (1): Ange777
Currently, Risen is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~5 hours at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
I've seen enough. One of the things I had on zeph was that he had posted in the other thread last night, but I don't like bringing that stuff into thread. I'm reasonably happy with his explanation.
What I was hoping for from Risen that I mentioned earlier was a proper concerted push on a candidate. Instead he's just omgused more. In Not Themed he latched on to Vivax and pursued him. Nothing like that here.
##unvote ##vote Risen
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Meh, my hard pursuit in that game lead to a towns getting lynched. Also, zeph next time you ask someone to respond chronologically and they actually respond chronologically, don't call them out for doing so. Unless you're scum, then that question is awesome.
Zeph/Dirk scum team is my read. Godspeed, town. Class for two hours so I'll be back with a couple hours to spare.
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Zeph if you're town that case is going to get you lynched it's so scummy rofl
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Hmm something that bugs me. Marv knows I'm trying to change my meta, why is he still holding me to past meta?
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Dirk is my strongest scum read.
zeph follows for asking me for my thoughts in chronological order, then when I do give them in chronological order he calls me out for being inconsistent? My first sentence states why I made my first post, my second sentence states why I felt he was scum. My opinion on prpl has since changed due to the possibility that he's just lazy town (and so much scummier stuff from other people)
Marv is number three. He knows I'm trying to change, it's the reason I hydra'd with him. I've complained in Skype with him how I hate having to be rage Risen every game bc that's my "meta". He knows this, why is he calling me on meta? It's so simple. He doesn't point to anything else in his vote post, just meta. He's calling me out for changing my mind. So I should stay on one person even when someone else comes along and I find them more scummy? That's silly. Mary is really smart, if he's alive day 3 lynch him.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
The point is Risen, that you've just leapt from person to person. I asked you earlier what you thought you had was good, and you said the stuff on kei. But then you just hopped on to Dirk.
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For clarity so scum zeph can't muddy the waters even more Risen, chronologically tell the thread why you find prpl scummy
1)I never thought he was scum in my first post, he was just the scummiest of the posters before me so I chose him. 2) his actions since then have been scummy
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On September 08 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote: The point is Risen, that you've just leapt from person to person. I asked you earlier what you thought you had was good, and you said the stuff on kei. But then you just hopped on to Dirk. Because Dirk is more scummy than Keir. Keri has been posting thoughts in thread that echo my own. He's either scum blatantly copying me, or a townhouse who isn't reading my posts before making his. I am now leaning towards the latter option. I only push people who I think are townies to teach them a lesson or bc I'm scum. Neither really applies to Keir.
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I'm posting from an iPad sorry for the autocorrect issues
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On September 08 2012 00:14 Risen wrote: Ange I just meant now that there's people on me, a scum Marv would hop off me for that tasty town cred.
No. He was early enough on you to avoid direct suspicions for voting you if he had not switched away from you. It's his unvote that actually made him scummy. You don't even explain the contradiction in your post.
First you claim that I am wrong in my assumption that marv would try to pile evidence on a town Risen mislynch as he is "sneaky as fuck". You say that he stays away from your case to get more town cred when you flip green.
On September 07 2012 02:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch. Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck.
But then you stay this:
On September 07 2012 05:40 Risen wrote:
However, if Risen is town and Marv is scum it IS the perfect opportunity for Marv to get a mislynch on Risen going. Maybe now that the wagon is going you've realized town will do the job for you? I doubt that, though, since there really isn't a wagon moving except by Keir/Dirk/prpl, and I'm not really scared of their votes since their actions have been so scummy.
On September 07 2012 06:05 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote:that makes no sense. I wanna kill myself Wait what doesn't make sense about it? If you were scum you'd use that as an opportunity to make an easy lynch.
Now the case on you is the perfect opportunity for marv to get a mislynch on you going. Scum squirming while explaining himself?
As people have pointed out prplhz plays according to his town meta, I am willing to lynch Risen first and observe prplhz' play for another cycle.
##Vote Risen
@Bluelightz: Someone else pointed it out already. What's the matter with your vote on V7??? You are voting your null read who had not posted in the time between your read and your vote? Why not vote for marv who was at least a slight scum read for you???
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
The unvote doesn't make me scummy.
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Well it did make you more suspicious for me. I'll add this: It's his unvote that actually made him scummy in my opinion.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Wait wait. I'm on my phone so I can't check. Did Bl not lean scummy on zeph earlier and now finds him town with nothing happening in between? Someone please look because its a mare on phone
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In his post Bluelightz states:
Keir: town read marv: scum read Zeph: town read V7: null read
On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null. Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
But earlier in his filter ange
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Marv: I checked before I left the house. Bl called out zeph, zeph responded, then BL changed him to a townie read based on the response
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
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On September 08 2012 02:40 marvellosity wrote: Meh, ok thanks Yea I noticed it too, so I had to check. The timeline worked out.
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Alrighty, lots to talk about post game. Sorry town! Dirk/Zeph, easy lynches. Zeph probably easier to lynch than Dirk. Zeph asks for a chronological response, gets it, calls my response scummy b/c I went chronologically instead of just answering the question of "do you think prpl is scum"
I don't think prpl is scum, I just think he's bad. Forget prpl, guys. Focus on Zeph/Dirk/BL/v7 imo
If Marv is alive d3 lynch him. If he's scum we get to see him call us all idiots like Mattchew did when he was scum, and if he's town... well you guys have lost already at that point.
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EBWOP: But Risen you just said not to point out town reads! Yeah well fuck you, I'm dying.
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I'm changing my meta, I am. Don't look at the following as indicative of anything in future games.
I can't fucking believe I'm getting lynched. All you townies on me SUCK. Scum? You guys are awesome, way to exploit tiny things when I'm the most pro-town fucking poster in this thread. All you townies who aren't doing shit? I hate you. You're whats wrong with mafia games. I come in, am the MOST ACTIVE POSTER IN THIS THREAD, and you lynch me for it.
I was fucking around last game when I said I'm changing my meta to troll from now on, but fuck this shit. I'm trolling every fucking game I get into now. I'm making one post a fucking day and one post for voting. I'll play like 3, 4 mafia games at a time b/c fuck committing all this fucking time to a single game and then idiots lynch you for this shit.
Scum, you guys are awesome and whoever you are I love what you've done with the place. Town? You guys suck. Marv I hope you're scum. You know I'm bad, and you know I was trying to change my meta, then you make a meta read on me.
Maybe this post is somewhat meta changing, since I'm now trolling the shit out of everything.
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Can I get the QT link as soon as I'm lynched, please. Just PM it to me.
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EBWOP: I'm asking b/c I want to see if they think I'm scum too. If they think I'm scum after all I've done in this fucking thread I don't know what to do. My "fuckups" were SMALL THINGS. I answered Zeph's question CHRONOLOGICALLY and I'm getting voted for it by all of you. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM ME.
Oh Risen, from now on just don't answer any questions. Be a little lurker bitch and you won't get lynched! You fucking got it dudes.
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Very... um... mature?
This will be my last post before deadline.
Risen I'll tell you why I think you are scum and you can take ir or leave it. Consider the fact that several people (not only scum trying to get you lynched) read your game as scum might indicate that its your play that is wrong. Or at least in this game.
You have been the most active yes. That is correct. But during your impressive filter for day1 with 9 players you have contradicted yourself several times and been wishy washy about stuff. Like prplhz being scum, like hopping on everyone that voted you, like if marv was scum he would do X (what ange pointed out). Your VT claim early on (which you yourself said was stupid later). All you have maneged with all your posts are to confused people what you actually meant while trying desperatly to explain your thoughts. While it all might be the way you say it is, thats not what I read in your filter.
You attacked BL when he said he believed your VT claim. Getting defensive over small things and nitpicking small things in other. You post longwinded posts about meta between you and Marv that doesn't really serve a purpose or have a point.
You have done so many things that are either useless or slightly scummy for me to feel very good about lynching you. If you are town (which I hope you are not) you have still done your duty as town and have made people react and thus we can use that information going forward.
Martyring is for quitters.
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On September 08 2012 03:18 Dirkzor wrote: you have still done your duty as town and have made people react and thus we can use that information going forward.
Reads very similar to me. Where else could someone be saying good things are coming from a lynch of a townie. Oh! I know, because I myself do it when I'm scum.
On September 01 2012 11:35 Risen wrote: Well I can't say I'm surprised. Hope you learn your lesson.
None of you on me has actually taken the time to read my posts. You blind yourselves with these nonexistent contradictions that you don't even have the balls to post, and then when I do respond to some shitty case you ignore it and say, well yeah that's pretty towny, but still you're making contradictions.
You point to me these fucking contradictions. Zephyr asked for my thoughts chronologically. It's brilliant! He, and every other person in the thread, can now take my post out of context and get me lynched! Tip of the hat to you Zeph. Wag of the finger to every one of you townies voting for me.
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EBWOP: This just hit me.
On September 08 2012 03:18 Dirkzor wrote: you have still done your duty as town
How does he know I'm town? He's scum.
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On September 08 2012 03:18 Dirkzor wrote: You have done so many things that are either useless or slightly scummy for me to feel very good about lynching you. If you are town (which I hope you are not) you have still done your duty as town and have made people react and thus we can use that information going forward.
If you take the complete quote, it makes sense and shouldn't be taken as a scumslip.
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So you're saying I quoted him out of context? Huh, that's really weird.
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Ah fuck this.
IAMA scum team player. Ask me anything. We have 3 hours for me to answer your questions. Ask away!
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EBWOP: No, I won't tell you who my partner is. Feel free to ask me anything about my play, though.
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I am saying that you only took half of his quote and that if you take the entire sentence you can't take it as a slip.
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On September 08 2012 04:14 Ange777 wrote: I am saying that you only took half of his quote and that if you take the entire sentence you can't take it as a slip.
I know what you're saying. I was saying it's funny how I took him out of context and got called on it, while everyone else quoted me out of context and no one got called on it. No need for the farce any more, though.
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Really, no questions for me?
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I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity.
What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream?
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On September 08 2012 04:26 Ange777 wrote:I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity. What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream?
You're probably right. I was expecting people to go through and ask questions about my play. I'd respond by saying what I was thinking at the time. By doing this people would actually read the thread and realize I'm town b/c I can respond to any "contradiction" posted in this thread, and have, to show that there are no contradictions. People still harp on it, though, b/c they're too lazy to actually read the thread. That's why v7's claim of having read through the entire thread rings really, REALLY hollow to me. I doubt he did, or if he did he skimmed it. So either lazy town or scum claiming lazy town.
Post-game discussion from me will revolve around how atrocious town is, and how awesome scum is for relying on a lazy town (or rather, how sad it is that a scum team can rely on town to be lazy)
As for favorite ice cream? Tie. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough for sure. Damn that sounds tasty.
In case you didn't get it from that, I'm town. We'll see what excuses derp townies come up with to excuse how bad they are.
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EBWOP: If anyone says SHIT about contradictions post game and hasn't come in here and asked me with a quote about said contradiction they can fuck right off.
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Double EBWOP: If I missed responding to you about your contradiction post and you did give me quotes, my bad, and you can bring that up post game.
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I wish this game could fast forward to lynch. I want to see the QT :<
Am I really being that illogical here, or is town that bad? I trust QT to decide.
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Risen:
The reason I voted for him in the first place stands. I don't believe that you can have a clear scum read 3 posts into the game. Risen seemed anxious that no one was talking in the thread after his initial post and then when I immediately after asked him a simple question about his vote for me, he spent 10 minutes writing a 6 line response. This seems too carefully thought through if the case is just a "joke vote" to get things rolling. The guy was actually trying to write a real case 3 posts into the game and I don't believe this.
Then later he tries to back down on that by saying it was obvious that his case was a joke. Then why did he not act as if it was a joke? It seems like he was just trying to downplay it because it was getting him into trouble.
I pretty much think that this is enough, conflicting motives for actions is a clear sign of scum because scum never have any motive other than "Man, I better write some shit so they don't yell at me for lurking".
Later he tries to back down even more by saying that he never actually thought I was scum, but townies don't lie and everything in his behavior said that he thought I was scum. There is no reason ever that a townie would make that much of an effort trying to make it seem like he thought I was scum unless he really did think that, there's no guaranteed benefit but there are potential disasters just waiting to happen. Townies don't do stuff like that.
I also found this post very interesting. For a guy who has a 5 page filter in a 17 page game, he never asked who Quatol was even though he was "having a seizure". This is really weird because townies usually just shoot from the hip and ask whatever questions but even though he seems like he's saying what's on his mind, he actually isn't. Why is he even so nervous about Quatol? It's some dude writing whatever on another user, I knew that marvellosity is cohosting with Palmar whose smurf Quatol is so I don't know but I think townies would mostly feel annoyed that someone is making the thread harder to read by posting on another account. Risen is nervous which is something scum are but townies aren't. I think a lot of his posting seems nervous but this is a really good example of it.
Why apologize? Scum apologizes but townies are like "get out, i'm the towniest townie in town just by how green my pm is".
I trust my early reads because they are usually what I have the most luck with and I'm pretty sure that Risen is the best lynch for today.
Also if you are some kind of blue it's probably time to claim.
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@Ange777 Why are you lynching Risen?
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On September 08 2012 04:39 prplhz wrote:Risen: The reason I voted for him in the first place stands. I don't believe that you can have a clear scum read 3 posts into the game. Risen seemed anxious that no one was talking in the thread after his initial post and then when I immediately after asked him a simple question about his vote for me, he spent 10 minutes writing a 6 line response. This seems too carefully thought through if the case is just a "joke vote" to get things rolling. The guy was actually trying to write a real case 3 posts into the game and I don't believe this. Then later he tries to back down on that by saying it was obvious that his case was a joke. Then why did he not act as if it was a joke? It seems like he was just trying to downplay it because it was getting him into trouble. I pretty much think that this is enough, conflicting motives for actions is a clear sign of scum because scum never have any motive other than "Man, I better write some shit so they don't yell at me for lurking". Later he tries to back down even more by saying that he never actually thought I was scum, but townies don't lie and everything in his behavior said that he thought I was scum. There is no reason ever that a townie would make that much of an effort trying to make it seem like he thought I was scum unless he really did think that, there's no guaranteed benefit but there are potential disasters just waiting to happen. Townies don't do stuff like that. I also found this post very interesting. For a guy who has a 5 page filter in a 17 page game, he never asked who Quatol was even though he was "having a seizure". This is really weird because townies usually just shoot from the hip and ask whatever questions but even though he seems like he's saying what's on his mind, he actually isn't. Why is he even so nervous about Quatol? It's some dude writing whatever on another user, I knew that marvellosity is cohosting with Palmar whose smurf Quatol is so I don't know but I think townies would mostly feel annoyed that someone is making the thread harder to read by posting on another account. Risen is nervous which is something scum are but townies aren't. I think a lot of his posting seems nervous but this is a really good example of it. Why apologize? Scum apologizes but townies are like "get out, i'm the towniest townie in town just by how green my pm is". I trust my early reads because they are usually what I have the most luck with and I'm pretty sure that Risen is the best lynch for today. Also if you are some kind of blue it's probably time to claim.
The game had just started you dolt. I didn't come in and spend ten minutes making a case on your post. I came in, wanted to be fruitdealer, and started writing my VT post. I saw your post in thread and to get things rolling I made a "case" on you. You responded in a scummy manner. I NEVER BACKED DOWN FROM YOU QUOTE A FUCKING POST WHERE I BACK DOWN FROM YOU STOP SAYING STUPID SHIT LIKE THAT. You know what, you right, better write something so they don't call me out for lurking EVEN THOUGH THE GAME JUST STARTED. I NEVER BACKED DOWN FROM YOU STOP REPEATING THAT IT IS NOT TRUE SHOW ME A FUCKING QUOTE. Maybe I didn't post asking b/c I thought Quatol was just another player in the game and I was trying to figure out who he was responding to? At that time I didn't have the player list memorized. You're making up things right now to try and justify your vote at this point. I'm apologizing to marv b/c I just hyrda'd with him to try and get better, but I'm doing pretty bad. You trust your early reads? You got any fucking evidence of that shit? Or is it just more feeling.
I'M REALLY HAPPY WE'RE ALL LYNCHING RISEN BECAUSE OF OUR FEELINGS EVEN THOUGH WE CANT FIND A FUCKING QUOTE TO BACK UP OUR SHIT.
I'm not blue. I'm VT. I hope you're scum prpl. Very well played if you are.
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No idea why I did all that work for this town. Every towny in this game is lazy as shit, can't be bothered to back up their shit.
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I was ok when it was just 4 on me, two of which could be scum. Now that there's like what... 6? It just means there's idiots voting for me who can't back up their shit. Marvel is not this bad. Marvel is not this bad. Marvel is scum. Marvel is scum. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch Marvel tomorrow. Lynch Marvel tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow.
I'm convinced the rest of you are just horrible. I KNOW Marvel isn't horrible. Marvel is scum. Lynch Marvel. Don't let him weasel his way out of this, he's good at that. Lynch him.
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Oh hey look prpl comes in, gets his horrible case slapped down by me, and then he's nowhere to be found. Funny that, eh? Still lynch marv, though. Town marv would know I'm not scum. Lynch marv.
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Also, don't let anyone use the excuse when I flip that "oh he was so scummy". Make them post quotes and give actual reasons they thought I was scummy. If they post something I haven't responded to lynch them b/c why the fuck wouldn't you let me defend myself. If they point to something I've already answered point it out and ask them again until they realize how bad their arguments were or until they scumslip.
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Still here I just don't want to talk to someone who calls me a dolt and writes in caps because I would regret what I say later.
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On September 08 2012 04:31 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 04:26 Ange777 wrote:I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity. What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream? You're probably right. I was expecting people to go through and ask questions about my play. I'd respond by saying what I was thinking at the time. By doing this people would actually read the thread and realize I'm town b/c I can respond to any "contradiction" posted in this thread, and have, to show that there are no contradictions. People still harp on it, though, b/c they're too lazy to actually read the thread. That's why v7's claim of having read through the entire thread rings really, REALLY hollow to me. I doubt he did, or if he did he skimmed it. So either lazy town or scum claiming lazy town. Post-game discussion from me will revolve around how atrocious town is, and how awesome scum is for relying on a lazy town (or rather, how sad it is that a scum team can rely on town to be lazy) As for favorite ice cream? Tie. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough for sure. Damn that sounds tasty. In case you didn't get it from that, I'm town. We'll see what excuses derp townies come up with to excuse how bad they are.
So what made you contradict yourself regarding marv? Or are you simply too lazy to answer questions directed at you?
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On September 08 2012 05:25 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 04:31 Risen wrote:On September 08 2012 04:26 Ange777 wrote:I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity. What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream? You're probably right. I was expecting people to go through and ask questions about my play. I'd respond by saying what I was thinking at the time. By doing this people would actually read the thread and realize I'm town b/c I can respond to any "contradiction" posted in this thread, and have, to show that there are no contradictions. People still harp on it, though, b/c they're too lazy to actually read the thread. That's why v7's claim of having read through the entire thread rings really, REALLY hollow to me. I doubt he did, or if he did he skimmed it. So either lazy town or scum claiming lazy town. Post-game discussion from me will revolve around how atrocious town is, and how awesome scum is for relying on a lazy town (or rather, how sad it is that a scum team can rely on town to be lazy) As for favorite ice cream? Tie. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough for sure. Damn that sounds tasty. In case you didn't get it from that, I'm town. We'll see what excuses derp townies come up with to excuse how bad they are. So what made you contradict yourself regarding marv? Or are you simply too lazy to answer questions directed at you?
What contradiction?
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On September 08 2012 05:19 prplhz wrote: Still here I just don't want to talk to someone who calls me a dolt and writes in caps because I would regret what I say later.
Standard response form someone who can't actually use logical arguments. Don't listen to any cases prpl posts the rest of the game. If he's still alive day 4 just lynch him, but for god's sake don't listen to this guy.
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On September 07 2012 19:38 Ange777 wrote:@Risen: Explain this! Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:10 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch. Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:40 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 05:37 marvellosity wrote: meta is totally irrelevant, it would just be the most stupid scumplay ever and I am not known for those.
And no, it's not so stupid it's brilliant either. However, if Risen is town and Marv is scum it IS the perfect opportunity for Marv to get a mislynch on Risen going. Maybe now that the wagon is going you've realized town will do the job for you? I doubt that, though, since there really isn't a wagon moving except by Keir/Dirk/prpl, and I'm not really scared of their votes since their actions have been so scummy. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:05 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote:that makes no sense. I wanna kill myself Wait what doesn't make sense about it? If you were scum you'd use that as an opportunity to make an easy lynch.
There is no contradiction here if this is what you're referring to. Where is the contradiction? Marv starts a wagon, gets off it once it's rolling for the town cred when I flip green. Marv does this because he's sneaky.
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Anything else Ange? I swear I already told you somewhere that there is no contradiction there. Why are you asking again?
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I mean I can understand your frustration. I didn't catch your starting post as scummy. To me it was just standard fluff. But the way you are dealing with your accusers and their cases is just simply not very convincing. Not every single person stating his suspicions about you has to be scum yet it seems like you have made cases on almost all of them.
And you are changing your mind about your top scum read all the time. I don't think there is anything wrong with having several scum reads, but you can't just go on and completely change your mind in 2-3 hours without explanation! Especially as there haven't really been any posts by marv which might have changed your top scum read.
On September 08 2012 02:24 Risen wrote: Dirk is my strongest scum read.
zeph follows for asking me for my thoughts in chronological order, then when I do give them in chronological order he calls me out for being inconsistent? My first sentence states why I made my first post, my second sentence states why I felt he was scum. My opinion on prpl has since changed due to the possibility that he's just lazy town (and so much scummier stuff from other people)
Marv is number three. He knows I'm trying to change, it's the reason I hydra'd with him. I've complained in Skype with him how I hate having to be rage Risen every game bc that's my "meta". He knows this, why is he calling me on meta? It's so simple. He doesn't point to anything else in his vote post, just meta. He's calling me out for changing my mind. So I should stay on one person even when someone else comes along and I find them more scummy? That's silly. Mary is really smart, if he's alive day 3 lynch him.
On September 08 2012 05:08 Risen wrote: I was ok when it was just 4 on me, two of which could be scum. Now that there's like what... 6? It just means there's idiots voting for me who can't back up their shit. Marvel is not this bad. Marvel is not this bad. Marvel is scum. Marvel is scum. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynch Marvel tomorrow. Lynch Marvel tomorrow. Lynch him tomorrow.
I'm convinced the rest of you are just horrible. I KNOW Marvel isn't horrible. Marvel is scum. Lynch Marvel. Don't let him weasel his way out of this, he's good at that. Lynch him.
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Probably b/c it hit me later on that Marv wouldn't be that bad. A Dirk/Marv team is very possible. Taking just the posting in the thread and no meta? Lynch Dirk. Taking how smart I know marv is into account? Lynch Marv. Next?
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On September 08 2012 05:32 Risen wrote: Anything else Ange? I swear I already told you somewhere that there is no contradiction there. Why are you asking again?
The contradiction is the following. First you say that marv wouldn't just go on and try to push for a town Risen mislynch. A few hours later you accuse marv of doing the exact same thing.
No explanation. Why denying the possibility of this theory in the first place when you are going to pick it up later yourself? And what made you change your mind?
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Wait, what theory am I denying? I thought I listed all the possibilities of what Marv was doing in the thread. I didn't think that was the case, though, because Marv wasn't voting me. He is now voting me. I know Marv is not that bad. Therefor, scum Marv.
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Haven't seen a response yet but I really need to go to sleep.
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EBWOP: In my "possibilities" thing I was just saying a scum Marv might push a Risen lynch and then get off it for that tasty town cred. In order for this possibility to be true it requires marv to stay off me, though. As it stands, the fact that he is on me leans even more heavily to him being scum (for reasons I said in my last post).
I still see no contradictions.
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So wait, he's scummy if he stays off of you for the town cred, but hes scummy if he votes you too?
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Thanks Keir ... I was already wondering if it is my mind that is failing to understand him ...
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To sum: The case on me is as follows.
1) He backed off prpl. I've shown I never backed off prpl, but this continues to be a cry from too many people to have it just be scum shouting it. Hence, horrible town.
2) He contradicted himself with the marv thing. I've shown I didn't contradict myself here, either.
3)He changed his mind about who his top scum read was. As the thread evolved I changed my mind on who my top read was, yes. At the start of the day, I voted prpl for pressure. His reaction was telling to me, and I maintained my position. Keir came along with some ultra scummy shit, I moved to him. Dirk made a really, really, really scummy string of actions, causing him to become my top scum read. I'm now telling you to lynch marv b/c I know he isn't as bad as he's trying to make it seem. I don't even know if that's a meta read. It's more like I have enough confidence in a town marv to actually read the thread, whereas scum Marv would try to capitalize on idiot townies (read our QTs and trust me on our skype convos, we laugh about how bad townies are a lot)
Anything else?
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On September 08 2012 05:56 Keirathi wrote: So wait, he's scummy if he stays off of you for the town cred, but hes scummy if he votes you too?
Sigh... I didn't know raising a possibility was calling him scummy. All I was doing in the thread was listing the possibilities for what marv was doing in the thread. I never called him scummy until he proved to me that he was scum by voting me.
Anything else? All your idiotic points have been refuted, and everyone's vote is still on me. You're all horrible.
I like how ange goes to sleep before bothering to read my response to Keir here. I'd like to also point out that what Keir said here is WRONG. I never said Marv was scummy for his unvote of me. I said it was a possibility that he was scum getting off me now that the wagon had started rolling. I was sharing my "notes" with the thread. (Notes = thoughts)
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EBWOP: Which is more likely, that Keir didn't read the thread, didn't bother quoting me, and is a bad towny? Or that he's scum and has misquoted me twice now. It's up to town to decide on that. Blows my mind that town Keir could echo so much of the things I said in thread and then have the audacity to vote for me. I'm betting he's just being lazy. Still think Dirk/Marv is a real possibility.
Lynch order: Marv > Dirk > Zeph > Keir > prpl. Pray you guys hit scum sometime in those first three or it's just over anyways.
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On September 08 2012 06:00 Risen wrote: 1) He backed off prpl. I've shown I never backed off prpl, but this continues to be a cry from too many people to have it just be scum shouting it. Hence, horrible town.
But you did back off prpl. Even if I give you the BotD that you were answering "Why did I vote prplhz 3 posts into the game" instead of "Why do you think prplhz is scum", you still maintained for a lot of the day that prplhz was scum. I can quote all the times you mentioned your scum read on him again, if you want. I'm not even talking about your first post, just the ones after it. But a few hours ago, you said something along of the lines of "I don't think prplhz is scum, I think he's a bad townie. Forget him and lynch Dirk/Zeph/etc".
Also, I do have a question for you: What part of your meta, specifically, are you trying to change? I was under the impression that you were just trying to work on your attitude, because thats what you said you were working on in Not Themed. Your attitude has nothing to do with the meta argument that marv made against you, so your questioning of him because he made a meta argument about your townie playstyle, NOT your "FUCK YOU YOU'RE DUMB" attitude meta, doesn't make much sense to me.
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I know that's my lynch order, but really guys, be wary of prpl. If Dirk doesn't flip scum take a real hard look at him. He hasn't actually done anything useful and his posts are really bad.
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On September 08 2012 06:08 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:00 Risen wrote: 1) He backed off prpl. I've shown I never backed off prpl, but this continues to be a cry from too many people to have it just be scum shouting it. Hence, horrible town.
But you did back off prpl. Even if I give you the BotD that you were answering "Why did I vote prplhz 3 posts into the game" instead of "Why do you think prplhz is scum", you still maintained for a lot of the day that prplhz was scum. I can quote all the times you mentioned your scum read on him again, if you want. I'm not even talking about your first post, just the ones after it. But a few hours ago, you said something along of the lines of "I don't think prplhz is scum, I think he's a bad townie. Forget him and lynch Dirk/Zeph/etc". Also, I do have a question for you: What part of your meta, specifically, are you trying to change? I was under the impression that you were just trying to work on your attitude, because thats what you said you were working on in Not Themed. Your attitude has nothing to do with the meta argument that marv made against you, so your questioning of him because he made a meta argument about your townie playstyle, NOT your "FUCK YOU YOU'RE DUMB" attitude meta, doesn't make much sense to me.
Meta change = changing the entire way I play. Attitude (work in progress, sorry!) and gameplay style. I don't think there's anywhere I've played as town where day 1 I was posting so actively and being so open to the trhead on my thought process.
I thought the back off referred only to the misquoted and out of context statement. It's clear I've backed off him b/c I no longer have him as my top scum read. Why? Because there are scummier people in the thread. Right now if I was anyone else I would not even be considering Marv as the top slot, but once I saw Risen flip town, and took it to my head that Risen had been teamed with Marv for two games in a row now, I'd lynch him in a heartbeat.
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EBWOP: Maybe prpl is playing stupid and refusing to answer my rebuttal of him and he really IS scum. Maybe he's town and actually is refusing to answer my rebuttal b/c he's had a bad game so far. I'm leaning to the latter. I've never discounted anyone as being town or scum, besides marvel who I'm 100% on being scum, because only scum know alignments. I thought keeping the thread up to date on what I was thinking would be best. Not only does this allow people to defend themselves, it also gets people talking because they have to defend themselves. We'll see how the game works out. If town wins this b/c of all the posting people were forced into today then I'll continue openly thinking in thread. If town derps its way to a loss well maybe lurking and rolling the dice on who to lynch is a better way to play.
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Also, what happened to vader in your "Lynch order" list. He hasn't even been here, but you just dropped him.
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Double EBWOP: And what is lots of posting? Pro-town. I'll never subscribe to the school of thought that lurking in any position is pro-town. I'm under the impression that posting a lot is the best thing that can happen for town. Forcing people to defend themselves makes them post. Could I have gone about it in a better way? Probably. If town wins this b/c of what I made happen here day 1 I'll continue to refine and improve on ways to make people post as much as possible day 1. As it stands? If this town won't listen to rational arguments and let me defend myself I have no confidence that they'll be able to win without me making all the cases.
I'm still in shock that you guys are lynching the guy who has been forwarding cases and making people defend themselves. It boggles the mind.
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On September 08 2012 06:18 Keirathi wrote: Also, what happened to vader in your "Lynch order" list. He hasn't even been here, but you just dropped him.
Tbh, forgot about him. He's probably above prpl. He's been so lurky he didn't even cross my mind.
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EBWOP: Maybe even above you on that list Keir now that I'm thinking about him again. What he did was shady as fuck. "I'm going to post a case, ehhhh, nvm I changed my mind. No case, but here's my vote."
"Oh Risen responded to me, well I'm just going to lurk while derp town lynches him."
Makes sense to me. It's a problem when you have townies doing really scummy things. There's 6 people on me, at least 4 of you are town. The things I've done can be taken both scummy and not scummy depending on your viewpoint. No matter the viewpoint coming into the thread and voting without making a case, refusing to respond to defenses, and lurking is anti-town play.
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Ok, don't know if there will be any more posts before lynch. I'm set to be lynched.
Things town needs to do after I'm dead.
1) Lynch Marvel. What was that? Lynch Marvel. Why? Because he isn't as bad as the rest of you. Wait what? He's smarter than you are. He knows I'm not scum, and if he was town he would have actually made a case and let me defend myself from it. Well, how do you know he's smarter than us? I've played with him as scum, he's laughing at all of you right now, and in a very Mattchew-like manner.
2) Read my cases, and look at the response given from people. I think Dirk comes across as most scummy, maybe you don't agree. Regardless, get in the thread and POST. If you're town and lurking, start posting. If someone lurks the first two days and then unlurks, lynch them.
I think that sums it up. I responded to everyone's comments about me in what I feel was a logical manner, no one unvoted. Maybe it wasn't logical and I just thought it was. No one seems to be able to actually use quotes or read the thread, though, which is pretty bad. Stop being lazy, stop being bad. Godspeed, town.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Meh, Risen you've called so many people scummy in the last couple pages.
Also, you know I'm not some superman scumhunter, right?
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FWIW, as much as I would like to change my opinion about you, I just can't. You're being really active here when your neck is on the line, but I feel like you're floundering around doing whatever you can to save your hide and throw mud onto everyone else. Besides you, there are 8 people in the game. Your lynch list, when you add in vader, is 6 people. You have basically the whole town down in order of who should be lynched.
Then there's things like this (emphasis is my own, and spoilered cause long quotes): + Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 02:06 Risen wrote: You're probably right. I'm just telling you what I was responding to. Whether or not I actually responded to that specific question is irrelevant. It's probably scummy, and I'll discuss it post-game. The problem I find I have is I sit down and just type whatever comes to mind without filtering it. This leads to contradictions that shouldn't happen, and me answering things that weren't asked in the first place. If I wasn't me I'd think it was scummy, but I'd also look at all the other things I've done in thread and realize that scum wouldn't push cases so hard or with so much logic. I think my cases are very logical, something you can't say about scum cases. Now, the case being pushed on me is somewhat logical, because I've made mistakes, but it is incomplete because it doesn't look at the great good I've done in thread, instead focusing on the small blunders. This is what scum do, eventually townies make small mistakes, some more than others because some are worse, scum finds these small mistakes and exploits them. It is a townies duty not to panic and instead to continue making logical cases, that way even if I'm lynched, there are now concrete town cases in thread. That's what bugs me about prpl and anyone else in this game. Prpl responded by shitting himself openly in thread. He didn't do anything logical, he's not helping town should he be lynched. Town should play as if they're always about to take a bullet or be lynched. I don't see that from Dirk, prpl, or v7. On September 08 2012 04:31 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 04:26 Ange777 wrote:I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity. What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream? You're probably right. I was expecting people to go through and ask questions about my play. I'd respond by saying what I was thinking at the time. By doing this people would actually read the thread and realize I'm town b/c I can respond to any "contradiction" posted in this thread, and have, to show that there are no contradictions. People still harp on it, though, b/c they're too lazy to actually read the thread. That's why v7's claim of having read through the entire thread rings really, REALLY hollow to me. I doubt he did, or if he did he skimmed it. So either lazy town or scum claiming lazy town. Post-game discussion from me will revolve around how atrocious town is, and how awesome scum is for relying on a lazy town (or rather, how sad it is that a scum team can rely on town to be lazy) As for favorite ice cream? Tie. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough for sure. Damn that sounds tasty. In case you didn't get it from that, I'm town. We'll see what excuses derp townies come up with to excuse how bad they are.
You say that you are aware that you are making contradictions because you're posting on the fly off the top of your head, then say you have no contradictions.
You've flip-flopped on your reads every 30 minutes, without really PUSHING the cases. Hell, your vote isn't even on marv right now.
Too many little things all add up to you being scum.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
How is everyone else feeling about this right now?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Frankly I'm afraid he could be town but I'm more afraid that he's scummy wiggling and fooling me :/
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On September 08 2012 06:42 Keirathi wrote:FWIW, as much as I would like to change my opinion about you, I just can't. You're being really active here when your neck is on the line, but I feel like you're floundering around doing whatever you can to save your hide and throw mud onto everyone else. Besides you, there are 8 people in the game. Your lynch list, when you add in vader, is 6 people. You have basically the whole town down in order of who should be lynched. Then there's things like this (emphasis is my own, and spoilered cause long quotes): + Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 02:06 Risen wrote: You're probably right. I'm just telling you what I was responding to. Whether or not I actually responded to that specific question is irrelevant. It's probably scummy, and I'll discuss it post-game. The problem I find I have is I sit down and just type whatever comes to mind without filtering it. This leads to contradictions that shouldn't happen, and me answering things that weren't asked in the first place. If I wasn't me I'd think it was scummy, but I'd also look at all the other things I've done in thread and realize that scum wouldn't push cases so hard or with so much logic. I think my cases are very logical, something you can't say about scum cases. Now, the case being pushed on me is somewhat logical, because I've made mistakes, but it is incomplete because it doesn't look at the great good I've done in thread, instead focusing on the small blunders. This is what scum do, eventually townies make small mistakes, some more than others because some are worse, scum finds these small mistakes and exploits them. It is a townies duty not to panic and instead to continue making logical cases, that way even if I'm lynched, there are now concrete town cases in thread. That's what bugs me about prpl and anyone else in this game. Prpl responded by shitting himself openly in thread. He didn't do anything logical, he's not helping town should he be lynched. Town should play as if they're always about to take a bullet or be lynched. I don't see that from Dirk, prpl, or v7. On September 08 2012 04:31 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 04:26 Ange777 wrote:I think there is no one in the thread besides you and me. Stupid inactivity. What kind of questions were you expecting? Talking about your play should wait for the post-game discussion right? + Show Spoiler +Or where you expecting questions like what's your favorite kind of ice cream? You're probably right. I was expecting people to go through and ask questions about my play. I'd respond by saying what I was thinking at the time. By doing this people would actually read the thread and realize I'm town b/c I can respond to any "contradiction" posted in this thread, and have, to show that there are no contradictions. People still harp on it, though, b/c they're too lazy to actually read the thread. That's why v7's claim of having read through the entire thread rings really, REALLY hollow to me. I doubt he did, or if he did he skimmed it. So either lazy town or scum claiming lazy town. Post-game discussion from me will revolve around how atrocious town is, and how awesome scum is for relying on a lazy town (or rather, how sad it is that a scum team can rely on town to be lazy) As for favorite ice cream? Tie. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough for sure. Damn that sounds tasty. In case you didn't get it from that, I'm town. We'll see what excuses derp townies come up with to excuse how bad they are. You say that you are aware that you are making contradictions because you're posting on the fly off the top of your head, then say you have no contradictions. You've flip-flopped on your reads every 30 minutes, without really PUSHING the cases. Hell, your vote isn't even on marv right now. Too many little things all add up to you being scum.
1) I've been active all day, not just when my neck was on the line, what a stupid thing to say.
2) I was under the impressions that I had made a contradiction when I wrote that. Turns out there was no contradiction, but the sentiment contained within that post remains the same. When posting as much as I do there's bound to be tiny things that pop up and seem scummy. It's pro-town to inform me of those things so I can respond to them, as I have with everything brought before me.
3) I'm not voting Marv b/c to everyone else he hasn't done anything scummy, I only know he's scum b/c I know he's smarter than all of you. Dirk Dirk, on the other hand, has done things that even townies like you can pick up on (I think?)
TL;DR: Lynch marv tomorrow.
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On September 08 2012 06:45 marvellosity wrote: Frankly I'm afraid he could be town but I'm more afraid that he's scummy wiggling and fooling me :/
Stuff like this. Look how he gives himself a door so he can say damn, if only there had been more time. I was starting to think he was town, but not enough people were aroudn who would unvote him.
Don't listen to this. Lynch him.
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Stop being a dick Risen and use your head. You know I know that post gives me trouble and not credit.
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On September 08 2012 06:51 marvellosity wrote: Stop being a dick Risen and use your head. You know I know that post gives me trouble and not credit.
I'm not being a dick. I know you're smarter than that, and yet you're voting for me on some very flimsy stuff. Look at your vote post, dude. I still <3 you. Scum bros for lyfe.
Lynch Marv.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Vote Count
Risen (7): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi, Zephirdd, marvellosity, Ange777 Dirkzor (1): Risen vaderseven (1): Bluelightz
Not Voting (0):
Currently, Risen is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~7 minutes at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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HERE WEEEE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
My first day 1 lynch, how exciting
Will he flip town? Will he flip scum?!?!?
((Heads up: I'm town))
Lynch Marv.
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Risen if you're town you're being exceptionally dense.
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On September 08 2012 06:52 prplhz wrote: meh
Look at all these people comin' out the woodwork for my lynch!!!
Lynch Marv.
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On September 08 2012 06:54 marvellosity wrote: Risen if you're town you're being exceptionally dense.
Going to try the "I'm a blue and didn't want to get shot!" defense?
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If you are town you are even worse than I thought.
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Nothing to do with blue for fucks sake
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Had a blast guys, and remember...
LYNCH MARV!
GODSPEED, TOWN! DEATH TO SCUM!
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Final Vote Count
Risen (7): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi, Zephirdd, marvellosity, Ange777 Dirkzor (1): Risen vaderseven (1): Bluelightz
Not Voting (0):
Currently, Risen is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~7 minutes at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Night 1
gon smiles to himself. Most players couldn't put in the time but gon did and had the experience that others lacked. He's made it to the Ro32 in the GSL Open-- no small feat, not at all.
And now, after easily defeating non-named Protoss ZanDarke Glory is within reach. An Ro9 run would be an impressive achievement for any player, but his next game was against he inscrutable EGIdrA. He's a bad-mannered bad boy with an ego that he can use to physically crush his opponents. gon knows the meaning of fear... but then he sees, IdrA has already been eliminated. What? How?
gon turns and sees the face of his real opponent: chickencombo. In a flurry of TvT madness their armies clash against each other in might macro battles, but it is all too much for our hero. How was he to know he would be playing a TvT? He was expecting to fight a cheeser, not a macroer! As Tastosis began casting the english-language stream, he got more and more nervous. What if this guy was a cheeser? What then?
gon would not give up so easily, though. Tanks! Vikings! MMM! across Delta Quadrant and Blistering Sands they fought, raising armies that clashed together in glorious combat.
Pressed to the limit, gon knew his time was coming to a close. He was a progamer, sure, but he had no sponsors lined up. Hell, he had a day job. There was no way he could do this, no way he could out-do chickencombo. At last, he fell, exhausted, and the series was over.
Though chickencombo had won, he was far too tired to defend himself against Zenio in the next round. The pyrric victory had taxed him greatly-- all his energy was gon.
"gg"
Risen as gon and chickencombo the Progamers has been eliminated!
It is now Night 1. The Night ends at Thursday, Sep 06 7:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Make sure to get night actions into me and DoYouHas by that time.
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If this isn't wifom bombs this is the stupidest shit I've seen yet on to mafia
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Oh my god he fucking believed what he was saying
Jesus Christ risen
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Also I was voting risen not zeph, bh
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
I marginally effed up the votecount and moved some dudes around who did not move. The lynch result is the same. Will post in thread when accurate
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
The vote counts have been fixed. Carry on, ladies and gents.
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so, no-one around at all?
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On September 08 2012 09:27 marvellosity wrote: so, no-one around at all? I am back.
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unfleshed out or otherwise
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Yea, I'll get something fully fleshed out up soon.
I'll be honest, I kind of feel bad about Risen now, but damn he was playing scummily.
Initial thoughts post-flip: something feels off about you. But I say that every game. You're so goddamn hard to read. Your only real case was the one against me for saying "I think" a bunch, when you've read my games and talked with me more than anyone else here. And you dropped it extremely easily, then even said "Good post Kei" to something I said at the end of the day. However, some of your posts feel distinctly townie, like saying you still take responsibility for the Risen lynch even after you were off the wagon.
I'm still looking at Zeph and prplhz as my top two scum reads right now. Maybe throw vader in there too. I'll be taking a good hard look through their filters before the day post and getting some solid information out.
What about you?
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On September 08 2012 11:34 Bluelightz wrote: Well, my read was right.
WHAT read? you're not getting away this game, bluez.
First of all, you flipped from "scummy" to "town" on me WAAAAY TOO QUICKLY. Secondly, your filter reeks of nothingness, and your case(read: reason to vote) on Vaderseven is terrible.
If you read him as town, you were supposed to defend Risen's ass. If you read him as scum, you were supposed to vote his ass. Instead, you took the middle route.
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In two days I should have some clear reads on players though, making sure who is on whose's side. I'll start with bluelightz - I won't let you get away.
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On September 08 2012 12:50 Zephirdd wrote:WHAT read? you're not getting away this game, bluez. First of all, you flipped from "scummy" to "town" on me WAAAAY TOO QUICKLY. Secondly, your filter reeks of nothingness, and your case(read: reason to vote) on Vaderseven is terrible. If you read him as town, you were supposed to defend Risen's ass. If you read him as scum, you were supposed to vote his ass. Instead, you took the middle route. Hey I was sleeping -__-"
Well, I'd rather vote for someone who I think is more likely to be scum (marv read depends on who dies d2), then any of the people I read as townie (read: v7).
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eh by any people I think is townie i mean is people NOT v7.
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Risen played horribly. That sucks. :/
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On September 08 2012 11:34 Bluelightz wrote: Well, my read was right.
fuck this. now, if only you weren't so completely useless all the time, right?
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On September 08 2012 10:06 Keirathi wrote: Yea, I'll get something fully fleshed out up soon.
I'll be honest, I kind of feel bad about Risen now, but damn he was playing scummily.
Initial thoughts post-flip: something feels off about you. But I say that every game. You're so goddamn hard to read. Your only real case was the one against me for saying "I think" a bunch, when you've read my games and talked with me more than anyone else here. And you dropped it extremely easily, then even said "Good post Kei" to something I said at the end of the day. However, some of your posts feel distinctly townie, like saying you still take responsibility for the Risen lynch even after you were off the wagon.
I'm still looking at Zeph and prplhz as my top two scum reads right now. Maybe throw vader in there too. I'll be taking a good hard look through their filters before the day post and getting some solid information out.
What about you?
The whole thread needs a read through and any townie who isn't a lazy ass should do it, because Risen was arguing with people/dumping information on town. Who was absent/who betrayed knowledge that he was townie or whatever.
I remember Ange saying "I understand your frustration" or something similar at some point. Seemed odd but really she's probably been too involved otherwise to be scum.
I really wanna go back look at that "chronological" thing from Zeph. vader seems totally detached from the game and I hate that. BL is playing absolutely horribly.
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Keirathi why do you feel bad about the Risen lynch? He was the most scummy in the game and we lynched his ass. Only scum feel they need to apologize for there choice of lynch to not seem detached.
Yes he was town and that sucks but the lynch was good.
I'll be re-reading my notes (and updating them) and re-reading day 1 tomorrow. Gut feeling have me pointing fingers at zeph and vader7. Nothing substantial yet though...
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On September 08 2012 20:38 Quatol wrote: yeah i could kill vader
i could also learn to use smurf accounts
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kinda feel Zeph could be scum for taking the easy option of calling BL out.
I know I did, but I only did so vent and call him awful, Zeph wants to pursue him as a scumread and it feels icky
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On September 08 2012 19:04 Dirkzor wrote: Keirathi why do you feel bad about the Risen lynch? He was the most scummy in the game and we lynched his ass. Only scum feel they need to apologize for there choice of lynch to not seem detached.
Yes he was town and that sucks but the lynch was good.
I'll be re-reading my notes (and updating them) and re-reading day 1 tomorrow. Gut feeling have me pointing fingers at zeph and vader7. Nothing substantial yet though... Yea, you're right. If we replayed day 1 over again 100 times, I would probably make the same vote in 95+ of them. I just hate lynching townies (even bad ones), especially when they are the most active person in the thread.
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On September 09 2012 00:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 19:04 Dirkzor wrote: Keirathi why do you feel bad about the Risen lynch? He was the most scummy in the game and we lynched his ass. Only scum feel they need to apologize for there choice of lynch to not seem detached.
Yes he was town and that sucks but the lynch was good.
I'll be re-reading my notes (and updating them) and re-reading day 1 tomorrow. Gut feeling have me pointing fingers at zeph and vader7. Nothing substantial yet though... Yea, you're right. If we replayed day 1 over again 100 times, I would probably make the same vote in 95+ of them. I just hate lynching townies (even bad ones), especially when they are the most active person in the thread. EBWOP: What happened to your gut feeling about me being scum? You mentioned that you thought I had done scummy things, and replied to Ange saying that it was my wishy-washiness early game, into suddenly having a hard opinion, and that it was a gut feeling, but not enough to vote me over Risen. But now you have gut feelings about 2 new people, I'm not listed anymore.
So why did you change your opinion? You didn't ever actually give any reasons, and only mentioned me those 2 times.
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Risen
I said I can understand his frustration because partially people were accusing him based on his starting post which I have stated more than once seems like a normal fluff post to me. I did vote for him as well but not because of that post.
On September 08 2012 06:06 Risen wrote: Lynch order: Marv > Dirk > Zeph > Keir > prpl. Pray you guys hit scum sometime in those first three or it's just over anyways.
So this is the lynch order Risen has suggested. Out of his list there are a few players I have my suspicions about. One of them is:
Zeph
Zeph initially started off with a defense of Risen based on meta. When re-reading his case and vote on Risen there is something odd which didn't trigger any bells earlier as I was too preoccupied with Risen's own posts to notice this.
On September 08 2012 01:45 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum. First time he actually calls prplhz being scum(without actually saying that directly to him) which was after my post. Point: He thinks prplhz is scum. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:11 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote: let's not kill prplhz Why not? He's the scummiest one in thread so far. He still thinks prplhz is scum Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make. Wait a second. I asked you to tell us why did you think he was scum chronologically, which is the moment you first thought he was scum, why was that. But you never actually thought he was scum? Secondly, he was the scummiest guy in the thread!? I mean, I don't know about you, but the moment I think someone is scummy, is the moment I think someone is scum. There are varying degrees, but that's how it works. If he was the scummiest, how was he NOT scum? Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:31 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 03:29 Keirathi wrote: Also, for that matter, you repeatedly said "prplhz is scum". Except you never actually tried to convince anyone of it. You just kept repeating it ad nauseum, then when people started calling you out on it, you backtracked into saying "I never really thought he was scum anyways".
There's no townie motivation for that. Period. Except that whole starting discussion thing. And the fact that I still find prplhz scummy. My backtrack is nonexistent you just keep saying that over and over b/c you have no real point. I also find you more scummy than prplhz, my vote is where it should be. What so he is scummy. IS HE SCUM OR NOT RISEN? DO YOU THINK HE IS SCUM OR NOT, AND WHY? (that was a rhetorical question btw) -snip- ##unvote ##vote RisenHAMMER THAT
There is anything wrong with calling someone the scummiest guy in the thread and not being 100% sure if he is scum or not. Especially this early into a game when we only have a handful of posts to judge the alignments of every single player. Yet you paint it as if Risen had contradicted himself. I can see no contradiction in his posting regarding prplhz. Going for an early pressure vote, you can't sound weak or people will not take the pressure seriously. So there is nothing wrong with calling someone scum directly and than when having to clarify stating that he was the scummiest player at that time.
While Keir was following the same line of thought in his own case previously, I feel a town vibe from his posts given the fact that Keir was posting actively and was discussing the said case with Risen. Zeph however only sheeped Keir's case without adding anything substantial of his own. And he only voted when it was pretty sure that Risen was set to be lynched.
Now Zeph is taking an easy way out with this post:
On September 08 2012 12:53 Zephirdd wrote: In two days I should have some clear reads on players though, making sure who is on whose's side. I'll start with bluelightz - I won't let you get away.
Why does it take you two days to get more reads? As long as we actively hunt for scum there will be discussion in this thread even without Risen and with that everyone of us should be able to get better reads. All you are doing is calling Bluelightz out without applying any real pressure.
Right now, Zeph's play feels incredibly scummy. I have yet to see real scum hunting. Instead all I see is sheeping another player's case in voting a town player. No effort in looking for scum yourself. Because you yourself are scum?
@Bluelightz: What made you decide to vote for V7 and not one of the other players whom you haven't commented on. I suppose you have a null read on the rest of us as well?
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@marv and Dirk:
What makes you guys suspicious of vader7?
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Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz.
You said that you had a null read on V7 twice.
On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting)
Then again:
On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie.
However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between):
On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him?
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EBWOP: And your reasoning for him being null the second time was the same reasoning you gave from him being scum (talking about nothing BUT Risen).
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@Keir: What do you think of Zeph?
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Hey Bluelightz how do you feel about this game? Do you think that Ange777 is scum?
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@prplhz: Do you think that I am scum?
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It's a distinct possibility.
Can you answer my question and tell me why you thought Risen was scum? I don't even get why you ignored it the first time but I'm sure you have a good reason for that.
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I must have missed it sorry.
Reasons for voting him are in my filter. Basically it's the contradiction in his stance regarding marv (marv switches his vote off of him is scummy. marv switches his vote back to him is scummy) and the fact that he flip-flopped his scum reads all the time.
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@prplhz: What do you think about Zeph?
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EBWOP:
You have only voiced suspicions on Risen and Keir. With Risen dead and Keir taken off of your list who is your scum read right now?
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On September 09 2012 03:27 Ange777 wrote: @Keir: What do you think of Zeph? I've said a few times that he was in my top 3 scum reads.
I agree with you that his only real case was on Risen, and it just repeated points that were already made multiple times in the thread. Easy way to look like he's participating.
The key, I think, is what he said before that case on Risen. He was pretty certain that Risen wasn't scum.
On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz
On September 06 2012 23:51 Zephirdd wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On Bluelightz' case, 1. Now that game is over, I'll go for it. Risen does not claim stupid null shit. That's it. At least he looks different from both games(this and DN mini); I can't say he's getting better over time though. 2. The number of times a rule has worked is relevant. Mafia is a game of chances and nothing is 100%(except the setup). 3. It's scummy because it's a O-M-G-U-S what the hell. Not because he is voting whoever voted him, it's because he is voting for the reasoning "you can't be serious about this". Kinda outlined it on the following posts nicely.
On another note, I have a question to RisenWhy do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically.
Sounds like he had pretty strong reasons for believing that Risen was town, but when the train got rolling on Risen he was happy to jump aboard with other people's arguments.
Also notice that past his initial vote on prplhz (and the two subsequent posts explaining his Kenpachi Rule Extended), he hasn't really mentioned him again. In fact, he believes BL is scum now, who hadnt even mentioned at all as having any scummy feelings towards during the day. But suddenly he's super sure.
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On September 09 2012 03:43 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: What do you think about Zeph? I'm not really all that worried about him right now.
I'm more worried about Bluelightz. This game he was the only one to go against the Risen lynch (besides Risen himself). The last game I remember Bluelightz going against the "mainstream" lynch was Wheel of Fortune Mafia. In that game Bluelightz made a ton of cases on other people because he thought that zentor was town and that it was a mislynch. Everybody agreed that Bluelightz played really well post game, he even got a mention from Radfield in the Mafia Awards thread.
This is how "moved" Bluelightz is from a mislynch that he didn't like this game:
On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.)
Next post after deadline:
On September 08 2012 11:34 Bluelightz wrote: Well, my read was right.
This doesn't look like the townie Bluelightz at all, it looks like a guy who doesn't give a shit at all and that's very unlike Bluelightz.
I don't like Ange777 either, in the filters I read she was posting text wall after text wall exposing scum and apparently also carrying her team to victory. I don't see any of that here. There is prodding and there is poking but there's no whacking with a big stick but I'm less sure about this. Bluelightz is looking really bad.
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My top 3 candidates going into tomorrow. Ended up being busy this morning, so kind of in a rush trying to get this out before the day post:
Zephirdd - My case is just a few posts up, so just going to link it: Zeph Case
prplhz
1) OMGUS vote against Risen. He tried to say it wasn't an OMGUS vote, but his wording was literally "I can't believe that Risen can be serious." Why does a townie need to get that defensive over a fluff case at the start of the game? Yes, the case was terrible, but prplhz's response to it was equally terrible.
2) Unvotes Risen to sheep marv onto the case against me, without any explanation. Then, when marv hops onto Risen, prplhz sheeps him again and re-votes Risen.
3) Never really pushes anyone until the lynch outcome was basically already decided. His case on Risen was so late that, while it added some new points, it doesn't really feel like scumhunting, and more like trying to make sure he had some quality scumhunting in his filter.
I will say this though, having played with scum prplhz in Dwarf Fortress, he is definitely more active and involved here. Hell, he never even had a single case in DF, was almost modkilled, and only showed up at the end of the day to defend himself from lurker accusations. That's really the only experience I have with him though, so I'll ask other people who have played with him more: is prplhz's scum meta ALWAYS disinterested and lurky?
vaderseven
1) In his first post, he soft-defends prplhz, and then voted Risen because of Risen's initial post with some shaky reasoning (that his green Fruitdealer flavor text felt scummy, and that he's not doing a good job of hiding his scumminess? I don't even really know what that means)
2) Again maintains that the green flavor text was scummy. Of all the things that Risen did that were scummy, this is maybe the least alignment telling thing in his entire filter. What made it so scummy?
3) I know someone already pointed this out already, but I can't remember who it was: vaderseven wrote: I was going to list out a huge number of sub points but I think its better left at this: you are squirming like scum trying to be very active. Your goal is to use a large amount of direct response to defend yourself. Why was it better left at that?
He isn't making his thoughts and intentions clear. Maybe just lazy/disinterested, but certainly not transparent. All of which are scum traits. Add on that he's lurking pretty hard, and my day 1 impression is noob scum trying to fly by under the radar.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Day 2
Artosis sat comfortably with John the Translator as Cool came up for his interview. A sad note tinged this meeting, because of the recent tragedy. poopfeast420 had his questions and made Artosis say his handle on air, and John was both humorous and awesome, but somehow, something was off. Something... was different.
Something, actually, smelled different. "Do you smell that?" asked Artosis, and before John can translate it he cuts him off. "No, no not him. You. What's that smell?"
The ponder for a moment, and follow their noses. The camera stays on Cool who keeps his cool, and suddenly abandoned by his interviewers, wanders off to go do other cool things. Suddenly, John runs back across the stage, going somewhere. Moments later, Mr. Chae and John are running back and cross the camera again.
Artosis returns. "We won't be having our second match today, guys. Sorry... something horrible has happened. I can't explain it. Just... it was awful..."
The feed cuts out.
* * *
Some fans in the audience were in the back, and soon the rumor spread. Threads take hold on Teamliquid.net about the horror that took place... NaDa was found unconscious in a pile of grease, salt, and curds.
Cheesed unconscious. He forfeits his match automatically since he can't show up to it.
Ange777 as NaDa the Progamer has been cheesed to death!
It is now Day 2. With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day2 ends in 48 hours at Monday, Sep 10 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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GG Ange.
I was roleblocked.
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GG guys. And I was so excited that I'd have more time in the next days to play
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On September 09 2012 07:05 Keirathi wrote: GG Ange.
I was roleblocked.
That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw.
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On September 09 2012 09:49 vaderseven wrote:That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw. So which is it? Do you think I'm lying or not?
Anyways, yes. This narrows the setup possibilities down. We either have 1 cop and 1 doc, or 2 BoxeR's. Whoever the blues are know the exact setup now.
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Where the hell is everyone?
This is starting to feel like dwarf fortress all over again.
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@Keirathi What do you think about Bluelightz?
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On September 09 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz. You said that you had a null read on V7 twice. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting) Then again: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie. However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between): Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him?
Your logic: I should've voted Risen.
My logic: Voted vaderseven because zeph/risen I thought was town.
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On September 09 2012 09:49 vaderseven wrote:That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw.
Seem's rather careful.
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On September 09 2012 03:27 prplhz wrote: Hey Bluelightz how do you feel about this game? Do you think that Ange777 is scum?
Ange77: He died.
Aaaaaaand I think we should lynch marv because he didn't die n1. (Okay that's just because he was scum and didn't die N1 in NMMII too).
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I'm with BL. Lets lynch Marv =)
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 09 2012 20:15 Dirkzor wrote: I'm with BL. Lets lynch Marv =)
##Vote: Dirkzor
straight omgus
BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived:
1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point
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Shame you answered first marv. I was interested in seeing how others would react but thats kinda ruined now That I was hungover from last night and just wanted to troll a bit...
I have no intention of lynching you - so far.
On September 09 2012 03:03 Ange777 wrote:Risen I said I can understand his frustration because partially people were accusing him based on his starting post which I have stated more than once seems like a normal fluff post to me. I did vote for him as well but not because of that post. Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:06 Risen wrote: Lynch order: Marv > Dirk > Zeph > Keir > prpl. Pray you guys hit scum sometime in those first three or it's just over anyways. So this is the lynch order Risen has suggested. Out of his list there are a few players I have my suspicions about. One of them is: ZephZeph initially started off with a defense of Risen based on meta. When re-reading his case and vote on Risen there is something odd which didn't trigger any bells earlier as I was too preoccupied with Risen's own posts to notice this. Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:45 Zephirdd wrote:On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum. First time he actually calls prplhz being scum(without actually saying that directly to him) which was after my post. Point: He thinks prplhz is scum. On September 06 2012 08:11 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote: let's not kill prplhz Why not? He's the scummiest one in thread so far. He still thinks prplhz is scum On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make. Wait a second. I asked you to tell us why did you think he was scum chronologically, which is the moment you first thought he was scum, why was that. But you never actually thought he was scum? Secondly, he was the scummiest guy in the thread!? I mean, I don't know about you, but the moment I think someone is scummy, is the moment I think someone is scum. There are varying degrees, but that's how it works. If he was the scummiest, how was he NOT scum? On September 07 2012 03:31 Risen wrote:On September 07 2012 03:29 Keirathi wrote: Also, for that matter, you repeatedly said "prplhz is scum". Except you never actually tried to convince anyone of it. You just kept repeating it ad nauseum, then when people started calling you out on it, you backtracked into saying "I never really thought he was scum anyways".
There's no townie motivation for that. Period. Except that whole starting discussion thing. And the fact that I still find prplhz scummy. My backtrack is nonexistent you just keep saying that over and over b/c you have no real point. I also find you more scummy than prplhz, my vote is where it should be. What so he is scummy. IS HE SCUM OR NOT RISEN? DO YOU THINK HE IS SCUM OR NOT, AND WHY? (that was a rhetorical question btw) -snip- ##unvote ##vote RisenHAMMER THAT There is anything wrong with calling someone the scummiest guy in the thread and not being 100% sure if he is scum or not. Especially this early into a game when we only have a handful of posts to judge the alignments of every single player. Yet you paint it as if Risen had contradicted himself. I can see no contradiction in his posting regarding prplhz. Going for an early pressure vote, you can't sound weak or people will not take the pressure seriously. So there is nothing wrong with calling someone scum directly and than when having to clarify stating that he was the scummiest player at that time. While Keir was following the same line of thought in his own case previously, I feel a town vibe from his posts given the fact that Keir was posting actively and was discussing the said case with Risen. Zeph however only sheeped Keir's case without adding anything substantial of his own. And he only voted when it was pretty sure that Risen was set to be lynched. Now Zeph is taking an easy way out with this post: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 12:53 Zephirdd wrote: In two days I should have some clear reads on players though, making sure who is on whose's side. I'll start with bluelightz - I won't let you get away. Why does it take you two days to get more reads? As long as we actively hunt for scum there will be discussion in this thread even without Risen and with that everyone of us should be able to get better reads. All you are doing is calling Bluelightz out without applying any real pressure. Right now, Zeph's play feels incredibly scummy. I have yet to see real scum hunting. Instead all I see is sheeping another player's case in voting a town player. No effort in looking for scum yourself. Because you yourself are scum? @Bluelightz: What made you decide to vote for V7 and not one of the other players whom you haven't commented on. I suppose you have a null read on the rest of us as well?
##Vote Zephirdd
Yes I'm sheeping. This post is the best so far in this game Ange was town. I have my own feelings about zeph which ange pointed out really well in this post and:
On September 07 2012 22:17 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 22:07 marvellosity wrote: Dirk, tell me about Zeph dear. Zephirdd always tickles my scumbells. Like ALWAYS. I can never read him. Same this game. He gives a bad reason for voting prplhz over Risen - scummy. He then talks about the stupid kenpachi rule for the rest of his posts. He complains that no one is posting while not really producing anything himself.
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On September 09 2012 19:24 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz. You said that you had a null read on V7 twice. On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting) Then again: On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie. However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between): On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him? Your logic: I should've voted Risen. My logic: Voted vaderseven because zeph/risen I thought was town. Err, what?
I didn't ask you why you didn't vote Risen. I asked you how your null read suddenly turned into your strongest scum read.
Do you literally have a town read on every single person in the game, so the best you could do was vote a null read?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
yeah, i'm totes down with a zeph lynch. Dirk, don't play with me like that kthxgg
##Unvote ##Vote: Zephirdd
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It wasn't you I was trying to play Marv...
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On September 09 2012 23:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:24 Bluelightz wrote:On September 09 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz. You said that you had a null read on V7 twice. On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting) Then again: On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie. However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between): On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him? Your logic: I should've voted Risen. My logic: Voted vaderseven because zeph/risen I thought was town. Err, what? I didn't ask you why you didn't vote Risen. I asked you how your null read suddenly turned into your strongest scum read. Do you literally have a town read on every single person in the game, so the best you could do was vote a null read?
During d1, the best you could vote was following the Risen bandwagon train?
I voted v7 because if we swinged votes it would be more likely(easier) to gather support to lynch v7 as some people have already voiced their willingness / say's that the lynch target is between Risen / zeph / v7.
Zeph lynch thoughts:
Will I vote zeph? No. Why wouldn't I? because he has proven his innocence (to me), by being willing to share information with town, even if he picked an easy target (meh) to pick on, by doing that he is actively trying to find scum (he thinks i'm scum) and not wasting time doing other stuff.
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Not wasting time? what about his rambling about the kenpachi rule?
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On September 09 2012 23:59 Dirkzor wrote: It wasn't you I was trying to play Marv...
yeah, I know.
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On September 10 2012 00:04 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 23:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 09 2012 19:24 Bluelightz wrote:On September 09 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz. You said that you had a null read on V7 twice. On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting) Then again: On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie. However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between): On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him? Your logic: I should've voted Risen. My logic: Voted vaderseven because zeph/risen I thought was town. Err, what? I didn't ask you why you didn't vote Risen. I asked you how your null read suddenly turned into your strongest scum read. Do you literally have a town read on every single person in the game, so the best you could do was vote a null read? During d1, the best you could vote was following the Risen bandwagon train? I voted v7 because if we swinged votes it would be more likely(easier) to gather support to lynch v7 as some people have already voiced their willingness / say's that the lynch target is between Risen / zeph / v7.
Zeph lynch thoughts: Will I vote zeph? No. Why wouldn't I? because he has proven his innocence (to me), by being willing to share information with town, even if he picked an easy target (meh) to pick on, by doing that he is actively trying to find scum (he thinks i'm scum) and not wasting time doing other stuff. Yes, the best I could do was vote Risen. I made a case, gave plenty of reasoning, and argued with Risen about it for hours. I voted for my scum read.
So you voted for your null read. I can kind of understand your reasoning, BUT: who was your scum read? You never actually pushed one at all. The only person you ever even mentioned that you thought was scummy was Zeph, and you changed that to a townie read based on one post.
If there were 3 lynch candidates, but you had a town read of two of them and a null read on the third, wouldn't the appropriate play be to make a case on the person you thought was scum, with supporting evidence etc, and try to get people off of your town read?
But instead, you took the easy way out and just put a throwaway vote with no real reasoning behind it onto v7. Sounds like you didn't particularly care if Risen died, even though he was a "Town read".
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On September 10 2012 00:20 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 00:04 Bluelightz wrote:On September 09 2012 23:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 09 2012 19:24 Bluelightz wrote:On September 09 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Something I'd like to ask Bluelightz. You said that you had a null read on V7 twice. On September 06 2012 22:52 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote: Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz. 2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary. Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's: On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail. Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work). Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy) ******************************** On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM). Conclusion: Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response Vaderseven - Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting) Then again: On September 07 2012 21:56 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My promise from yesterday: Keirathi: I think he's town, he's been tunneling Risen, but is persistent to his read (which I think is townie because he doesn't take the easy way of voting and makes a case and defends it), he also defends himself when accused by marv.
I have an odd feeling on marv, meta check! Scum marv (NMMII)This game's marvDo you guys see a similarity?I think I do, when I look at his post's, they are: one-liners!, some useless, some pointing out x,y or z. Particularly, his post's don't have much content (or do they :O?), his stances, are understandable, but we don't know why: On September 07 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: i'm not a fan of lynching prplhz today See the stance? yes, see why? no. (Marv could you explain please?) marvellosity: Odd feeling he might be scum, filter's look the same, but i'd see if he dies N1 or not (Sorry marv, it's normal nao )
My final stance on v7/Zeph: Zeph: Townie v7: Still null.Why? v7: He believes Risen IS scum, he has posted mostly (all) about him, but he has not posted about anything else. Zeph: How he was very open, how he provided information willingly as soon as Death Note ended, I consider townie. However, Your very next post (with no post from vader in between): On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) How did he go from null two different times, to your scummiest read with no interaction from him? Your logic: I should've voted Risen. My logic: Voted vaderseven because zeph/risen I thought was town. Err, what? I didn't ask you why you didn't vote Risen. I asked you how your null read suddenly turned into your strongest scum read. Do you literally have a town read on every single person in the game, so the best you could do was vote a null read? During d1, the best you could vote was following the Risen bandwagon train? I voted v7 because if we swinged votes it would be more likely(easier) to gather support to lynch v7 as some people have already voiced their willingness / say's that the lynch target is between Risen / zeph / v7.
Zeph lynch thoughts: Will I vote zeph? No. Why wouldn't I? because he has proven his innocence (to me), by being willing to share information with town, even if he picked an easy target (meh) to pick on, by doing that he is actively trying to find scum (he thinks i'm scum) and not wasting time doing other stuff. Yes, the best I could do was vote Risen. I made a case, gave plenty of reasoning, and argued with Risen about it for hours. I voted for my scum read. So you voted for your null read. I can kind of understand your reasoning, BUT: who was your scum read? You never actually pushed one at all. The only person you ever even mentioned that you thought was scummy was Zeph, and you changed that to a townie read based on one post. If there were 3 lynch candidates, but you had a town read of two of them and a null read on the third, wouldn't the appropriate play be to make a case on the person you thought was scum, with supporting evidence etc, and try to get people off of your town read? But instead, you took the easy way out and just put a throwaway vote with no real reasoning behind it onto v7. Sounds like you didn't particularly care if Risen died, even though he was a "Town read".
How the fuck do I defend Risen while I'm sleeping?. There's not much to say on v7's filter than He hasn't talked about anything BUT Risen.
(Sleeping now, don't expect responses till tommorow after school )
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I don't really care about why you had a town read on Risen, nor why you voted v7 (well, I do, but that wasn't what I was asking). I want to know: who are you scum reads, or, if v7 is your only scumread, then why did only talking about Risen take him from a null read to enough evidence to vote for him. You used the same reasoning to justify your null read, AND your vote.
As far as defending Risen while you were sleeping: I made my case on Risen at September 07 2012 02:02 forum time. The day ended at September 08 2012 07:00. You were sleeping for 29 hours? No, of course not. You came in and made a couple posts in that period, but still DIDN'T PUSH A SCUM READ. You just threw your vote onto vader with the only justification that he talked only about Risen. Did you honestly expect people to unvote Risen and vote vader based on that?
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@marv: care to weigh in on...well, anything?
Zeph, BL, vader, my question about prplhz?
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Oh, about the scum meta? Well, I provided two other mini games than Dwarf for people to look at, and I thought my opinion was pretty clear about it (partly why i want to know where he is now).
My vote is on Zeph, what do you want to know?
vader looks bad for reasons BL stated.
BL looks bad but that's BL for you. It's entirely unsurprising to me that he would not have a proper scumread to vote on day 1 - see my meta analysis of him in NMM3, i.e where he produced a spreadsheet of near-universal townreads when in line for the (mis)lynch I was leading on him at the time.
Back to Zeph for a moment, he rolled scum in Mad Men, NMM2, and PTP3... from my perspective it makes sense that he's not able to give this game his all. I know when I've rolled scum a couple of times in succession it drains me. If he's town, I would have expected him to be eager to get stuck into playing town this game.
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Zeph plays like he did in PTP3. Where he was scum.
He still got my vote.
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On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote: Oh, about the scum meta? Well, I provided two other mini games than Dwarf for people to look at, and I thought my opinion was pretty clear about it (partly why i want to know where he is now). Yea, your opinion was that he was more active and involved here than he was in those games. I was just curious if anyone had any reference point for an active/involved scum prplhz, or if he could be pulling the wool over our eyes.
On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote: My vote is on Zeph, what do you want to know?
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Back to Zeph for a moment, he rolled scum in Mad Men, NMM2, and PTP3... from my perspective it makes sense that he's not able to give this game his all. I know when I've rolled scum a couple of times in succession it drains me. If he's town, I would have expected him to be eager to get stuck into playing town this game. Well, you had mentioned him a bunch, but almost all one liners without really much explanation. Hard to get a read on your motivation and thought process if all you say is "Yea im down with a zeph lynch". This explanation of his play does have some merit, so I'll go check out those games.
On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote: vader looks bad for reasons BL stated. The only reason BL ever gave was that vader did nothing but talk about Risen. Which, I admit, is certainly a scummy point. But scummy enough to put him into your top reads?
On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote: BL looks bad but that's BL for you. It's entirely unsurprising to me that he would not have a proper scumread to vote on day 1 - see my meta analysis of him in NMM3, i.e where he produced a spreadsheet of near-universal townreads when in line for the (mis)lynch I was leading on him at the time. I remember the spreadsheet comment and how you jumped off of him. But, I was reading that game with the knowledge of who the scum were already, so I was more interested in the ways you guys (well, you specifically, since I was talking with you), kept suspicion off of yourself, so I didn't actually pay that much attention to what the townies were doing.
However, prplhz linked WoF, where as a townie, yes BL did have a lot of town reads. I feel like the difference is that he had scum reads too, and made cases against them.
I'll go check his filter from NMM3 now, though.
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i don't like how everybody is ignoring my bluelightz case
"that's bluelightz for you" no it isn't, this isn't bluelightz.
marv tell me why you like bluelightz and why you don't like zeph.
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I never said vader was a top read, I said he looked bad, Kei.
prplhz, Ange made some good points on Zeph, but I can reform them and pretend it's me if it makes you feel better? I've mentioned it before, but I find his "chronological" question on Risen's read on you to be quite out of place.
Already explained my thoughts on BL. If you don't agree with me, be specific.
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@marv: My bad. I remembered you sayin he looked bad, but you didn't actually mention him in your night post.
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Hey guys, I just had the best party ever. Got wasted, got a chick, we all partied all night. Hell, I even danced gangnam style. I'm happy.
On September 10 2012 05:54 Dirkzor wrote: Zeph plays like he did in PTP3. Where he was scum.
He still got my vote.
I'm not claiming anything stupid so far and I'm actually reading filters and caring enough to create a case on different players.
No, I'm not playing like PTP3.
Why I didn't mention prplhz again? Because he had been inactive as shit, and because I decided Risen was looking worse than him during the day. Besides, it's very well possible I'm wrong on my Kenpachi Rule stuff(hey, it worked out to bring stuff into the thread as well =p), but if prplhz flips red this game somehow I'm pretty sure I won't ever back off that again on another game lol
My biggest reason to suspect Bluelightz is that he changed his instance on me waaaaaaay too quickly without much reasoning. I mean, half of the thread is suspicious of me, so why am I suddenly ultra town? Keirathi is also doing a pretty good job in outlining how his V7 vote was scummy, when he had very little reasoning for that vote and didn't even give a reason to not vote Risen - when he was already clearly the one guy being lynched at that point.
@marv I wasn't scum on NMM2. I was scum on PTP and mad men, and I am tired of playing scum yes.
Your reasonings to lynch me only came after people called you out on it, and your reasoning to vote Dirkzor is bullshit because he is bad and you know he is bad and you know he is prone to make a post like he did.
If there is a BoxeR, claim now. Keirathi's claim will be rendered true if there are two BoxeRs, or false if there is only one, and if it's false he is confirmed scum, otherwise he is most likely town. Which is immensely helpful when considering other players reactions.
Finally, I really want Bluelightz dead.
##Vote Bluelightz
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yeah, not sure where NMM2 came from. Probably the reason I was thinking about it is because you came across clearly townie to me in that game and you have not this game.
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marv, since you are around, can you re-read bluelightz' filter objectivelly without thinking of meta for a moment?
What do you see when you do it?
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objectively he looks pretty bad.
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Holy shit. Marvel is scum. Like, I am not even 100% on bluelightz(up until now, he was my top scum read), but marvellosity is scum. He has to be.
Meta analysis His filter here, going into day 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=140487
His filter on Death Note Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=140487 His filter on Normal Mini Mafia 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836&user=140487
Now one could say that when you only sample scum filters, its pretty easy to compare them to a filter and say "they are similar" correct?
His filter on Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia, where he was town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=140487
Here is what we notice from comparing all these filters. 1. on both Death Note and NMM3, marvellosity shows a distinct lack of care. Short posts, low substance, low amount of reasons. Mostly two-liners and, when they are big posts, they lack meaningful content. I'm pretty terrible at explaining with words, but I ask you all to read his filters from these games, or at least skim by.
2. On DFMM, his first page has two setup-oriented questions and right on the second page of his really short filter(because he dies early), he has a ton of extremely dense and meaningful posts. I just asked him to take a look at Bluelightz objectively, and he showed a distinct laziness to actually analyse it. Here he is defending bluelightz(which shouldn't bear on Bz alignment, but still) without a thought out analysis. He defended Bz on DFMM and even mentions his "meta analysis" here, but he never shows us how bluez' meta is similar to his town meta here, which is a different game than DFMM.
I mean, it's not hard. It's pretty fucking simple in fact.
Look at this now:
On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote: Back to Zeph for a moment, he rolled scum in Mad Men, NMM2, and PTP3... from my perspective it makes sense that he's not able to give this game his all. I know when I've rolled scum a couple of times in succession it drains me. If he's town, I would have expected him to be eager to get stuck into playing town this game.
As I said, I rolled scum on MM and PTP3. He uses here something that applies to himself much more than me. He has a reputation of being good as scum, and he was scum on his past two games just like me(these were DN mini and NMM3 for him). He, however, isn't showing his town self. He is known to die really early because he is a fearsome scumhunter, but here he isn't showing any kind of real pressure on any player to show his fearsome side.
He just rolled scum a couple of times, and he should be eager to get stuck into playing town this game. That's exactly what he said about me, and he is saying that from his own perspective. This marvellosity isn't eager. This marvellosity is lazy, effortless, weak compared to the marv from DFMM who was killed so early, or the marvellosities that caused big fights with VE on other recent games.
Summarizing, he just straight up contradicted himself on his own perspective. That's a really unconscious part of him talking, and it's perfectly natural that even "him" would be taken by it.
and also, the most unconscious slip:
On September 10 2012 09:17 marvellosity wrote: yeah, not sure where NMM2 came from. Probably the reason I was thinking about it is because you came across clearly townie to me in that game and you have not this game. I know why he thought about NMM2. That's because he was scum on NMM3. I'm not kidding, a human brain fucks us up just like that.
And finally:
On September 09 2012 20:48 marvellosity wrote:##Vote: Dirkzorstraight omgus BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived: 1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point Town marvellosity isn't this bad. He had a scum read on me and threw a vote on the worst person to get a vote, which is Dirkzor. Dirkzor, the one guy known for having convoluted logic. The one guy that is more mislynched as town than marv is shot as town. town marvellosity does not straight OMGUS'es without an essay worth of reasons. This is a lazy post that allows him to have a vote parked somewhere and to make him look like he is contributing.
Everyone, read his filters and take an objective look at his play this game until now.
##unvote ##Vote marvellosity
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nice try zeph
keep squirming
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marv, if that is all you are going to say, that's the worst possible defense. Not only you showed that you are active and alive here, you are also showing a complete lack of interest in scumhunting, in showing how I am a real scum(I don't even know the case on me, iirc it was that I said risen was town early?) nor in thinking ahead and finding possible connections between me(supposed scum) and other players.
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one scum at a time, sweetie, and you're it.
your whole case was either WIFOM or creating some mystical narrative that doesn't exist. There's very little for me to say about it.
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@Zeph: before my head explodes from trying to figure out marv, maybe you can explain this for me:
On September 10 2012 09:06 Zephirdd wrote: If there is a BoxeR, claim now. Keirathi's claim will be rendered true if there are two BoxeRs, or false if there is only one, and if it's false he is confirmed scum, otherwise he is most likely town. Which is immensely helpful when considering other players reactions.
The logic doesn't really make sense. Even if there are two BoxeRs, if one of them thought I was scum, couldn't they just refuse to claim and therefor by your logic, I would be an instant-lynch?
Also, I was RB'd, so the scum knows that its either setup A, or setup D. If a BoxeR claims today, then scum knows that its setup D, and that they don't have to worry about a cop or doc at all. And here you are, wanting a BoxeR to claim to confirm me as scum.
Something about that doesn't sit right.
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EBWOP:And here you are, wanting a BoxeR to claim to confirm me as scum, or if two BoxeR's, to call me townie.
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Incredibly enough, My thoughts on the boxer thing is that, No matter what happens, any amount of boxer claims, Even if only one claims, Should help us find scum in incredibly easy manner. Trust me on this one. i'm Eager to see what you will thing of marv, because i think his play has been incredibly Anti-town this game.
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going to sleep, I want everyone reflecting on my post earlier. Seriously, you can take these filters side-by-side and decide which one looks more like marv from here.
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I'm working on my reply to you, but its taking a while to go back through all of his filters and context for his posts.
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About marv:
I'll give you that his lack of cases is disconcerting (which I already pointed out to him, but he didn't respond), and reading back through DFMM, I didn't realize just how much less information he has been forthcoming with in this game compared to that one (IE, he had large posts explaining his thought process/rationale/opinions on the major cases). Also, he dropped his case on me extremely easily (pressure vote?), and mildly buddied me.
However, like I also mentioned, he does have a few posts that feel distinctly townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16154605 for one. As scum, why wouldn't he just let it ride that my post said I felt like he was distancing himself from the Risen wagon by unvoting?
Also, his interactions with Risen feel different than his interactions with his "scum reads" in NMM3 and DN. Here, he was pretty "bulldog"-y. Like he was trying to keep Risen posting so that he could feel Risen out. In NMM3 and DN, he was using his arguments to convince everyone else, rather than starting a shouting match to convince himself.
Conclusion: I'm always extremely paranoid of marv. He's certainly good enough as scum to be scary, and generally is more open and forthcoming about his reasoning as town. I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on how to read him though. I've spent a huge amount of time talking with him on IRC about strategy, past games, how he plays, how I play, etc etc. I feel like I have a decent idea of how he thinks, but the converse side of that is that he has a decent grasp on how I think as well, and is certainly smart enough to potentially use that to manipulate me if he was scum.
Basically, I'm suspicious of him, but I don't think he is the best option for today's lynch.
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God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
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Zephirdd: I've just skimmed your case on marv and I only see 3 arguments to that entire post. So before I start digging in the filters please confirm this. You think marv is scum because
1) Meta 2) His "slip" about NMM2/NMM3 3) revesed OMGUS because he voted me with OMGUS
When you put it up like that its a really weak case.
But I'll look at filters later...
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On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
Then answer me this: Who is scum?
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On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum?
I have no leads atm.
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What? Nothing. Not just a little tiny read on someone?
I'll ask differently then. What do you think about Zephs case on marv and marv's lack of defence to that case?
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On September 10 2012 14:02 Keirathi wrote:About marv: I'll give you that his lack of cases is disconcerting (which I already pointed out to him, but he didn't respond), and reading back through DFMM, I didn't realize just how much less information he has been forthcoming with in this game compared to that one (IE, he had large posts explaining his thought process/rationale/opinions on the major cases). Also, he dropped his case on me extremely easily (pressure vote?), and mildly buddied me. However, like I also mentioned, he does have a few posts that feel distinctly townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16154605 for one. As scum, why wouldn't he just let it ride that my post said I felt like he was distancing himself from the Risen wagon by unvoting? Also, his interactions with Risen feel different than his interactions with his "scum reads" in NMM3 and DN. Here, he was pretty "bulldog"-y. Like he was trying to keep Risen posting so that he could feel Risen out. In NMM3 and DN, he was using his arguments to convince everyone else, rather than starting a shouting match to convince himself. Conclusion: I'm always extremely paranoid of marv. He's certainly good enough as scum to be scary, and generally is more open and forthcoming about his reasoning as town. I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on how to read him though. I've spent a huge amount of time talking with him on IRC about strategy, past games, how he plays, how I play, etc etc. I feel like I have a decent idea of how he thinks, but the converse side of that is that he has a decent grasp on how I think as well, and is certainly smart enough to potentially use that to manipulate me if he was scum. Basically, I'm suspicious of him, but I don't think he is the best option for today's lynch.
This is it, people are always terrified I'm scum, and people get suspicious of me. Keirathi, you should know very well I drop cases easily as town. s0lstice in Not Themed and Custos Luna in Dwarf, I both dropped extremely quickly.
People bang on about cases - if people wanna do meta, then LOOK at my filter in say Mad Men. I didn't make a case on Zeph there at all, just went along with a redcheck (in comparison, look at how I did NOT vote for previous red check, talis). Then I voted VE on a paragraph and I only made my big case on JingleHell because town would'n't do what I wanted when I just told them to.
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On September 10 2012 16:54 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum? I have no leads atm.
if you're town and this is true, you should hang your head in shame for being an awful player. jesus christ.
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On September 10 2012 19:33 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 16:54 vaderseven wrote:On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum? I have no leads atm. if you're town and this is true, you should hang your head in shame for being an awful player. jesus christ.
I mean come on, read some filters and get a lead. It's not acceptable in any way.
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On September 10 2012 12:07 Zephirdd wrote:
Town marvellosity isn't this bad. He had a scum read on me and threw a vote on the worst person to get a vote, which is Dirkzor. Dirkzor, the one guy known for having convoluted logic. The one guy that is more mislynched as town than marv is shot as town. town marvellosity does not straight OMGUS'es without an essay worth of reasons. This is a lazy post that allows him to have a vote parked somewhere and to make him look like he is contributing.
I can't remember being lynched as town tbh... Can't remember ever to be lynched. Hmm... convoluted logic? =(
I have to check now...
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his whole case consists of made-up nonsense
why are you surprised he would misrepresent you as well?
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Artosis Pylon Count
Zephirdd (2): Dirkzor, marvellosity Marvellosity (1): Zephirdd
Not Voting (0): vaderseven, Keirathi, Bluelightz, prplhz
Currently, nobody is set to be lynched. With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 11 hours at Monday, Sep 10 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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I'm not really. I looked at back through all my games and I have never been lynched. As scum or town. Been shot once (last game bu Mattchew) and blew myself up once.. Otherwise I'm usually around until endgame. (which means I'm never a big threat to scum =/ )
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I don't really like this Zephirdd lynch and I have no idea how so many people can think that Bluelightz looks townie.
Dirkzor why do you think that Bluelightz is town?
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prplhz's case:
Your case is based wholly on meta, am I correct?
I'm more worried about Bluelightz. This game he was the only one to go against the Risen lynch (besides Risen himself). The last game I remember Bluelightz going against the "mainstream" lynch was Wheel of Fortune Mafia. In that game Bluelightz made a ton of cases on other people because he thought that zentor was town and that it was a mislynch. Everybody agreed that Bluelightz played really well post game, he even got a mention from Radfield in the Mafia Awards thread.
Your Point's: -Only one to go against the Risen lynch -I went against the Zentor's lynch as well -I made a ton of cases because I thought Zentor was town -I played really well <--- WTF does this have to do? -Got a mention from Rad <--- WTF this too?
My Point's
-Okay, I'm the only one, why's that scummy? -How does that have a connection with now? -Didn't have much of a scum read on everyone else then v7
Second paragraph: Don't give a shit? I give a shit about this game, all my activity is trying to find scum & identify town.
On Marv, as Keirathi (?) is as well, I'm extremely paranoid of him, he didn't die n1 is NMM2, he didn't die n1 here, he was scum in NMM2, I think he might be scum here too (I'll look over his defence for a more solid read).
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He gives out his townreads.. Thats very townielike for BL to do. I just don't find him particular scummy just... bad... which is usually a give away that he is town. Also I'm not that worried about BL later if we so happen to get to MYLO. He have also clearly stated his read about zephirdd so lynching him will give us more infomation on BL.
That and I find zephirdd scum. So thats why I'm voting there. His entire case on Marv is reaching and meta. to be fair I sstill havent read the filters yet but the entire case just lack real substance to me.
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On September 10 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:
On Marv, as Keirathi (?) is as well, I'm extremely paranoid of him, he didn't die n1 is NMM2, he didn't die n1 here, he was scum in NMM2, I think he might be scum here too (I'll look over his defence for a more solid read).
Zeph should have a field day with these 'slips'. I was scum in NMM THREE and didn't die, obviously. I was town in NMM2 where BL was scum himself and did not have me nightkilled.
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On September 10 2012 20:23 prplhz wrote: I don't really like this Zephirdd lynch and I have no idea how so many people can think that Bluelightz looks townie.
Dirkzor why do you think that Bluelightz is town?
What makes you think Zeph is town?
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not much really but i think that the case i wrote on bluelightz is ten times better i don't even understand the case on zeph people are wrong all the time but that doesn't make them scum
bluelightz has actively not given given a shit about this game and that's way scummier
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On September 10 2012 20:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:
On Marv, as Keirathi (?) is as well, I'm extremely paranoid of him, he didn't die n1 is NMM2, he didn't die n1 here, he was scum in NMM2, I think he might be scum here too (I'll look over his defence for a more solid read). Zeph should have a field day with these 'slips'. I was scum in NMM THREE and didn't die, obviously. I was town in NMM2 where BL was scum himself and did not have me nightkilled.
Oh shit what was the latest game we played together?
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On September 10 2012 20:53 prplhz wrote: not much really but i think that the case i wrote on bluelightz is ten times better i don't even understand the case on zeph people are wrong all the time but that doesn't make them scum
bluelightz has actively not given given a shit about this game and that's way scummier
Isn't a case on meta based on chance?
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On September 10 2012 20:53 prplhz wrote: not much really but i think that the case i wrote on bluelightz is ten times better i don't even understand the case on zeph people are wrong all the time but that doesn't make them scum
bluelightz has actively not given given a shit about this game and that's way scummier
do you not know how BL plays or something?
Go away and read his filter in NMM3 and tell me he looked like he gave a shit about the game there. Do that and come back to me.
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On September 10 2012 20:54 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 20:50 marvellosity wrote:On September 10 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:
On Marv, as Keirathi (?) is as well, I'm extremely paranoid of him, he didn't die n1 is NMM2, he didn't die n1 here, he was scum in NMM2, I think he might be scum here too (I'll look over his defence for a more solid read). Zeph should have a field day with these 'slips'. I was scum in NMM THREE and didn't die, obviously. I was town in NMM2 where BL was scum himself and did not have me nightkilled. Oh shit what was the latest game we played together?
Says in that post. So tell me, BL, why are you a fan of lynching me based on the fact I am alive when as scum you left me alive all game in NMM2?
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On September 10 2012 21:00 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 20:54 Bluelightz wrote:On September 10 2012 20:50 marvellosity wrote:On September 10 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:
On Marv, as Keirathi (?) is as well, I'm extremely paranoid of him, he didn't die n1 is NMM2, he didn't die n1 here, he was scum in NMM2, I think he might be scum here too (I'll look over his defence for a more solid read). Zeph should have a field day with these 'slips'. I was scum in NMM THREE and didn't die, obviously. I was town in NMM2 where BL was scum himself and did not have me nightkilled. Oh shit what was the latest game we played together? Says in that post. So tell me, BL, why are you a fan of lynching me based on the fact I am alive when as scum you left me alive all game in NMM2?
Oh god damn marv, it's this one: NMMIII , that's the game where you were scum .
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answer the fucking question.
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I think the question just got herpa derpa because I forgot it was NMMIII where you were scum
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On September 10 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote: I think the question just got herpa derpa because I forgot it was NMMIII where you were scum
No, I am talking about NMM2.
I NMM2 you were scum, I was town, and your scumteam left me alive for the whole game. So why are you pushing suspicion on me being alive here, when YOU YOURSELF left me alive as scum before? Answer the god damn question.
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Of course they left you alive. You were a confirmed bullet-used vigi when there was a claimed jailer protecting you every freaking cycle. You wouldn't die with a bullet, ever.
dirkzor, read the freaking filters. Meta is weak when the metas aren't that different. So far, marv still is yet to provide a real analysis like he is so used to do as town. You dont even mention when I talk about him contradicting himself with his own perspective. Thiiiiink people.
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On September 10 2012 22:48 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote: I think the question just got herpa derpa because I forgot it was NMMIII where you were scum No, I am talking about NMM2. I NMM2 you were scum, I was town, and your scumteam left me alive for the whole game. So why are you pushing suspicion on me being alive here, when YOU YOURSELF left me alive as scum before? Answer the god damn question.
Other people seemed more useful than you at the time (WBG & Dangeresque), so that's why you were still alive.
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Dirkzor, maybe I thought on mattchew shooting you and thought you were mis-killed all the time, but in reality you aren't. Point stands, marv knows better than to throw away a vote on you based on that. This is a weak point anyways, have you looked at the filters I linked? So far only keirathi did, and it's kinda impossible to see what I saw without looking at the damn filters --'
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On September 10 2012 22:59 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor, maybe I thought on mattchew shooting you and thought you were mis-killed all the time, but in reality you aren't. Point stands, marv knows better than to throw away a vote on you based on that. This is a weak point anyways, have you looked at the filters I linked? So far only keirathi did, and it's kinda impossible to see what I saw without looking at the damn filters --'
On September 10 2012 19:32 marvellosity wrote: People bang on about cases - if people wanna do meta, then LOOK at my filter in say Mad Men. I didn't make a case on Zeph there at all, just went along with a redcheck (in comparison, look at how I did NOT vote for previous red check, talis). Then I voted VE on a paragraph and I only made my big case on JingleHell because town would'n't do what I wanted when I just told them to.
such a squirmy little scum you are, Zephirdd
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On September 10 2012 22:56 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 22:48 marvellosity wrote:On September 10 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote: I think the question just got herpa derpa because I forgot it was NMMIII where you were scum No, I am talking about NMM2. I NMM2 you were scum, I was town, and your scumteam left me alive for the whole game. So why are you pushing suspicion on me being alive here, when YOU YOURSELF left me alive as scum before? Answer the god damn question. Other people seemed more useful than you at the time (WBG & Dangeresque), so that's why you were still alive.
In that case you must think I have been the most useful in the game, logically.
Correct?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
for filter. sorry guys.
On September 10 2012 23:05 Quatol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 22:59 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor, maybe I thought on mattchew shooting you and thought you were mis-killed all the time, but in reality you aren't. Point stands, marv knows better than to throw away a vote on you based on that. This is a weak point anyways, have you looked at the filters I linked? So far only keirathi did, and it's kinda impossible to see what I saw without looking at the damn filters --' Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 19:32 marvellosity wrote: People bang on about cases - if people wanna do meta, then LOOK at my filter in say Mad Men. I didn't make a case on Zeph there at all, just went along with a redcheck (in comparison, look at how I did NOT vote for previous red check, talis). Then I voted VE on a paragraph and I only made my big case on JingleHell because town would'n't do what I wanted when I just told them to.
such a squirmy little scum you are, Zephirdd
On September 10 2012 23:06 Quatol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 22:56 Bluelightz wrote:On September 10 2012 22:48 marvellosity wrote:On September 10 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote: I think the question just got herpa derpa because I forgot it was NMMIII where you were scum No, I am talking about NMM2. I NMM2 you were scum, I was town, and your scumteam left me alive for the whole game. So why are you pushing suspicion on me being alive here, when YOU YOURSELF left me alive as scum before? Answer the god damn question. Other people seemed more useful than you at the time (WBG & Dangeresque), so that's why you were still alive. In that case you must think I have been the most useful in the game, logically. Correct?
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My filter in Mad Men for my most recent townie reference point. I basically say who I wanna lynch and then do it.
On August 11 2012 00:31 marvellosity wrote: does anyone think Zeph is town and if so why?
On August 11 2012 02:05 marvellosity wrote: why do you think zeph is town, talis?
On August 11 2012 05:56 marvellosity wrote: i wanna lynch zeph
##Vote: Zephirdd
On August 13 2012 03:02 marvellosity wrote:
VE - finally gonna call scum on him. Now is the time to tell people he masoned me yesterday. I saw no effort from him to discern my alignment whatsoever. Further, I pointed out (in my filter) his lie to do with slOosh's perception of him. Also in his filter he says "I only ignore people when I'm scum" and he ignored talis re: Zephirdd multiple times (he said in private that this was "spite" - don't buy it). Generally I think talis' case is pretty strong. Kinda most noteworthy to me - VE has been playing in a much more constructive, "townie" manner recently. In this game he seems to have completely reverted to his old ways which suggest scum. For example the bit that talis pointed out - "you'll regret this folly tonight, medics will be all over this shit" is just batshit crazy and not recent town VE.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
On August 15 2012 10:09 marvellosity wrote: okay, so let's kill JingleHell now
##Vote: JingleHell
On August 15 2012 10:13 marvellosity wrote: read page 85 and tell me he's town
On August 15 2012 10:30 marvellosity wrote: goddamnit why are you so bad
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On September 10 2012 19:32 marvellosity wrote:
People bang on about cases - if people wanna do meta, then LOOK at my filter in say Mad Men. I didn't make a case on Zeph there at all, just went along with a redcheck (in comparison, look at how I did NOT vote for previous red check, talis). Then I voted VE on a paragraph and I only made my big case on JingleHell because town would'n't do what I wanted when I just told them to.
Oh yeah, Let's look at Mad Men, where you replaced in for a lurker(who I think had one post the whole game?): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=140487
The only time you vote for me is when CountDropula claims a redcheck on me. In fact, without his redcheck, NOBODY would lynch me that game. You don't have to create an analysis when you got a redcheck.
now look at this post, from Mad Men:
On August 11 2012 04:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 04:02 Glasse wrote:On August 11 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: No, Glasse, you're lurking the shit out of the game, same as 4 or 5 others on whom we have very poor reads due to inactivity. Scum gets to hide now and are likely to continue to do so into the endgame. You are a massive hindrance to town. There's nothing I can do about that, so I don't see how that makes me a hindrance. I might not be helpful but I'm not a hindrance. We need a no lurker policy to make that happen. If that's what you think then you need to re-evaluate right now. You are absolutely a hindrance because town is not able to get a proper read on you, nor are you bringing anything to the table. How do you see this as not being a hindrance? You are aware enough of goings-on to reply to these questions, but the mind boggles that your stance is "I'll continue being useless - at least I'm not a hindrance". It makes absolutely zero sense. This town is deep in the shit because people like you to play the game properly. I replaced in last night for a scummy lurker, and I have had ZERO attention on me, no-one asking me questions about how my predecessor played, and it's farcical. The reason being that there's the clusterfuck around the main candidates, but also there are SO MANY PLAYERS like you that are doing nothing. If you are town, contribute your god-damn opinion and try to win this game.
This is you making sense of stuff, proving yourself and showing interest in the game.
Show me a post where you do this here.
Just now I've looked at this.
On September 10 2012 14:02 Keirathi wrote:About marv: I'll give you that his lack of cases is disconcerting (which I already pointed out to him, but he didn't respond), and reading back through DFMM, I didn't realize just how much less information he has been forthcoming with in this game compared to that one (IE, he had large posts explaining his thought process/rationale/opinions on the major cases). Also, he dropped his case on me extremely easily (pressure vote?), and mildly buddied me. However, like I also mentioned, he does have a few posts that feel distinctly townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16154605 for one. As scum, why wouldn't he just let it ride that my post said I felt like he was distancing himself from the Risen wagon by unvoting? Also, his interactions with Risen feel different than his interactions with his "scum reads" in NMM3 and DN. Here, he was pretty "bulldog"-y. Like he was trying to keep Risen posting so that he could feel Risen out. In NMM3 and DN, he was using his arguments to convince everyone else, rather than starting a shouting match to convince himself. Conclusion: I'm always extremely paranoid of marv. He's certainly good enough as scum to be scary, and generally is more open and forthcoming about his reasoning as town. I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on how to read him though. I've spent a huge amount of time talking with him on IRC about strategy, past games, how he plays, how I play, etc etc. I feel like I have a decent idea of how he thinks, but the converse side of that is that he has a decent grasp on how I think as well, and is certainly smart enough to potentially use that to manipulate me if he was scum. Basically, I'm suspicious of him, but I don't think he is the best option for today's lynch. Really nice find. Keirathi. This is the context of that particular post:
On September 07 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.
Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.
Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.
scum marvellosity is a fucking genius. Something about this post bugs me. You're right, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of scum marv bussing scum Risen. What about scum marv and townie Risen, though? You're acknowledging that your posts are (at least partly), responsible for the Risen wagon that is forming. But you unvoted and distanced yourself from it. Hmm...
On September 07 2012 06:09 marvellosity wrote: How am I distanced from it? I'm the most associated with it because of my unvote.
Use your brain.
And the final votecount:
On September 08 2012 07:00 Blazinghand wrote: Final Vote Count
Risen (7): vaderseven, Dirkzor, prplhz, Keirathi, Zephirdd, marvellosity, Ange777 Dirkzor (1): Risen vaderseven (1): Bluelightz
Not Voting (0):
Currently, Risen is set to be lynched. With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
This Day ends in ~7 minutes at Friday, Sep 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Notice something?
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On September 10 2012 23:28 Zephirdd wrote:
The only time you vote for me is when CountDropula claims a redcheck on me. In fact, without his redcheck, NOBODY would lynch me that game. You don't have to create an analysis when you got a redcheck.
yeah, and there was a redcheck on talis too who I totally wasn't voting. What does that suggest to you?
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that you had a town read on talis and not on me. In fact, most of the thread was on the backfoot to vote talis(esp. because of the way the "check" appeared on the game), when in fact I was in a much worse position.
See, this is the kind of argument that makes "meta" a bad argument. We are picking specific points, where meta is something big and generic. In marv's case, his recent scum meta is filled with short posts and lack of interest into doing something big, whereas his most recent town game(and partially mad men too) shows a big amount of interest and instant town-reads all around.
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No, meta is specific. Because as is clearly shown in Mad Men, 90%+ of my posts were short posts. You quoted a post of a game 'showing I cared' or whatever. I was just shouting at a stupid lurker. I've done the same here. Does this make me town? No, but it doesn't make me scum either.
Yes, I had a townread on talis and not you. The two quotes I pasted up there clearly indicate I had some sort of scumread on you. Else I wouldn't have been asking town about you. OH LOOK IT'S THE SAME AS THIS GAME where I start asking people about you. Actually you will struggle to find me doing similar things in my scumgames. Why don't you go show me?
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from NMM3:
On August 22 2012 07:08 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure ranting at the ~20% of the players of the game reading and replying to your posts is going to encourage the activity of the other 80%, dear.
" But you're not that kind of guy." always makes me smile when someone knows something about how I play. Anyway, you know I never let towns sit on their asses.
What do you think of the bravado of Shady? Some over-compensation in his first non-newbie game, perhaps.
On August 22 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 07:42 Shady Sands wrote:On August 22 2012 07:39 Obvious.660 wrote: Lurkers absolutely suck past day 2, so I agree that lurker lynches are a good fallback option. I'm also wary of easy lynches too. My experience with TL mafia has been that if it's too easy it's probably too good to be true. We're not even past 24 hours yet though so let's not get too ahead of ourselves by focusing on lurkers just yet.
Also, I agree with Shady that the LoveDoctor doesn't smell right. His olfactory glands are probably on his elbows. This doesn't smell right either. First you say: Lurker lynches good backup Then you say: Easy lynches bad Then you say: Not good to do lurker lynches just yet. Then you make a non-sequitur attempt at humor. So basically if we shouldn't go for lurker lynches, and we shouldn't call out the guy who is obviously scummy, then what, exactly, should we be doing? That's not what he said, why are you saying it is?
On August 22 2012 21:00 marvellosity wrote: I will read the thread properly when I manage to steal a decent chunk of time at work.
For now, come out and play or die a horrible scummy death.
##Vote: Kville
On August 22 2012 23:47 marvellosity wrote:Fairly happy with where my vote stands at the moment, given Kville's responses having come into the game (he decided to ignore my question, too). Bluelightz, you can't come into this game all eager because of the playerlist and then go "he's suspicious, but now he's not" and disappear again. Step it up. Shady I don't like because of how he twisted Obvious' post. But he's active and I'm wary of mislynching him because he has a tendency for some foot-in-mouth action. I'm quite suspicious of talis; a lot of his posts have this... touchy-feely-careful feel to them. " Actually to be completely honest", "this suggestion felt to me", "which is how I initially read it", and Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 08:51 talismania wrote: Actually, VE do you really want to push palmar? I may be reading things completely wrong but I get the impression you're just using him as a tool to poke newbies with (no offense, newbies).
are a few of the posts where you do this same thing. Point is that you don't do anything else as scum(on NMM3 there is a distinct amount of trolling day 1 too, but thats game-specific).
ugh I won't be able to post much more until the deadline. this is fucking annoying. Town, you have to listen to me right now. Look at marv's filter and look at his post on "being eagger to play as town", and then look at his filter once again. Draw your own conclusions, and suffice to say that my conclusion is that he is not town.
I ask you to draw your own conclusions because there isn't much I can do right now because of the time.
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that's not the same thing at all
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suffice to say my main 'scumread' in NMM3 from Day 2 (like here) was talis and mysteriously he didn't get lynched until Day 4 - ergo I let my main 'scumread' just float by for convenience. Here I am clearly involved and arguing with you because you're a scummy little squirmer and you need to die.
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So catching up, something is bothering me:
Why would scum Zeph pick a fight with town marv? Seems like there would be much, much easier people he could push today, and just get rid of marv at night. So what motivation would he have to trying to get marv lynched?
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On September 11 2012 00:02 Keirathi wrote: So catching up, something is bothering me:
Why would scum Zeph pick a fight with town marv? Seems like there would be much, much easier people he could push today, and just get rid of marv at night. So what motivation would he have to trying to get marv lynched?
motivation for getting one of the best players lynched. hmm. hmmmmm.
Something I learnt from NMM2 after chatting with GMarshal was about this motivation. Zephirdd picks a fight with me for precisely the reasons you're ummming about there.
The point in question with NMM2 was this - I caught MrZentor in one of my traps, and proceeded to gather town support for his lynch. What did Zentor do? He went balls to the wall attacking me and trying to discredit me, which actually only furthered the votes gathering on him. Except in the end I *unvoted* Zentor and took town off him because I couldn't believe scum would actively try to attack me and get themselves lynched. And that was the point - of course scum shouldn't do that, which is why he did it.
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Hmm, okay yea I didn't actually think about using his case to discredit you to buy people off of the case against him. That does make some modicum of sense.
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On September 11 2012 00:17 Keirathi wrote: Hmm, okay yea I didn't actually think about using his case to discredit you to buy people off of the case against him. That does make some modicum of sense.
I'm happy for you to tell me if you think Zeph's case has any merit. As far as I can see it's a bunch of incorrect meta arguments followed by an outright lie about Dirkzor.
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I already commented: your lack of clarity and openness feels more like your scum games, but I also feel like your Risen interactions feel like what you would do as a townie.
And yes, I'll give you that he was blatantly wrong about Dirk.
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Alright.
I think it's worth saying again that Ange777 died last night. She had the most well-formed suspicions of Zephirdd and in this game she wasn't necessarily the most obvious shot otherwise.
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On September 11 2012 00:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 00:02 Keirathi wrote: So catching up, something is bothering me:
Why would scum Zeph pick a fight with town marv? Seems like there would be much, much easier people he could push today, and just get rid of marv at night. So what motivation would he have to trying to get marv lynched? motivation for getting one of the best players lynched. hmm. hmmmmm. Something I learnt from NMM2 after chatting with GMarshal was about this motivation. Zephirdd picks a fight with me for precisely the reasons you're ummming about there. The point in question with NMM2 was this - I caught MrZentor in one of my traps, and proceeded to gather town support for his lynch. What did Zentor do? He went balls to the wall attacking me and trying to discredit me, which actually only furthered the votes gathering on him. Except in the end I *unvoted* Zentor and took town off him because I couldn't believe scum would actively try to attack me and get themselves lynched. And that was the point - of course scum shouldn't do that, which is why he did it.
Except i'm not zentor and I dont play like his insane self, and that I'd shoot you day1 every game as scum.
Also your post is pure wifom which is interesting when you just tried to use that against me.
finally, i was wrong that dirkzor is lynched every game, i thought of that because he was shot last game by a town and i constantly remember people throwing shit at him because of some of his insane posts, and marv knows it just as much as I do.
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Night kill stuff isn't pure wifom
from mafiawiki: "At present, NK analysis is considered simply another possibly-reliable piece of evidence, neither useless nor authoritative."
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On September 11 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Alright.
I think it's worth saying again that Ange777 died last night. She had the most well-formed suspicions of Zephirdd and in this game she wasn't necessarily the most obvious shot otherwise. HOLY FUCKING SHIT MARV
ange was one of the most solid townies on the clusterfuck of day1, and i remember someone saying she is a good hunter as well. If the setup has a rb(which I nelieve it does, because I have no suspicion of keirathi) then scum would fear a medic and not shoot veterans like you and me.
I, for one, would never believe a medic would protect you after this day 1 and would shoot you no problem. If someone was to be protected, it'd be keirathi from the top of my head.
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On September 11 2012 00:35 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 00:09 marvellosity wrote:On September 11 2012 00:02 Keirathi wrote: So catching up, something is bothering me:
Why would scum Zeph pick a fight with town marv? Seems like there would be much, much easier people he could push today, and just get rid of marv at night. So what motivation would he have to trying to get marv lynched? motivation for getting one of the best players lynched. hmm. hmmmmm. Something I learnt from NMM2 after chatting with GMarshal was about this motivation. Zephirdd picks a fight with me for precisely the reasons you're ummming about there. The point in question with NMM2 was this - I caught MrZentor in one of my traps, and proceeded to gather town support for his lynch. What did Zentor do? He went balls to the wall attacking me and trying to discredit me, which actually only furthered the votes gathering on him. Except in the end I *unvoted* Zentor and took town off him because I couldn't believe scum would actively try to attack me and get themselves lynched. And that was the point - of course scum shouldn't do that, which is why he did it. Except i'm not zentor and I dont play like his insane self, and that I'd shoot you day1 every game as scum. Also your post is pure wifom which is interesting when you just tried to use that against me. finally, i was wrong that dirkzor is lynched every game, i thought of that because he was shot last game by a town and i constantly remember people throwing shit at him because of some of his insane posts, and marv knows it just as much as I do.
stop saying what I do and don't know. Obviously my read on Dirkzor is more developed than your blatantly untrue one. I never had him marked down as scum in PTP3 (read obsQT), nor do i find his posts insane.
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And pure wifom was on you saying that Im attacking your, therefore scum because thats what zentor did on another game. You're not even reading my quotes.
its late, got school. Good afternoon.
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Why I think v7 is scum and should die:
Day 1 what did he do? search for scum. Scum who? Risen. Why this is bad? He posted exclusively about Risen, and has the interaction with others like brick's with air. We need to clear out the potential scum leads, for less "who know's" during LYLO (hopefully not happening), and less not useful people, why is v7 not useful? While his pushing for Risen was useful, it's not useful now, he already flipped, and what's in his filter besides pushing Risen?
On September 09 2012 09:49 vaderseven wrote:That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw.
On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
On September 10 2012 16:54 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum? I have no leads atm.
##Vote: vaderseven
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that's not wifom, that's explaining possible motivation for scum actions. stop twisting.
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On September 11 2012 00:41 Bluelightz wrote:Why I think v7 is scum and should die: Day 1 what did he do? search for scum. Scum who? Risen. Why this is bad? He posted exclusively about Risen, and has the interaction with others like brick's with air. We need to clear out the potential scum leads, for less "who know's" during LYLO (hopefully not happening), and less not useful people, why is v7 not useful? While his pushing for Risen was useful, it's not useful now, he already flipped, and what's in his filter besides pushing Risen? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 09:49 vaderseven wrote:On September 09 2012 07:05 Keirathi wrote: GG Ange.
I was roleblocked. That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw. Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 16:54 vaderseven wrote:On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum? I have no leads atm. ##Vote: vaderseven
you never answered my question. YOu thought I was the most valuable player Day 1 then?
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On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. HELLOOOO!!!
Where did all your activity go? I want to vote you more and more V7.
I'll try to figure out the marv/zeph things later.
Zpeh could you point out why marv i scummy besides meta stuff and his lack of cases this game?
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On September 11 2012 00:39 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Alright.
I think it's worth saying again that Ange777 died last night. She had the most well-formed suspicions of Zephirdd and in this game she wasn't necessarily the most obvious shot otherwise. HOLY FUCKING SHIT MARV ange was one of the most solid townies on the clusterfuck of day1, and i remember someone saying she is a good hunter as well. If the setup has a rb(which I nelieve it does, because I have no suspicion of keirathi) then scum would fear a medic and not shoot veterans like you and me. I, for one, would never believe a medic would protect you after this day 1 and would shoot you no problem. If someone was to be protected, it'd be keirathi from the top of my head. I can't imagine any scumteam that would be more scared of me than marv, so I don't know why medic protect would go on me over marv unless the medic had really good reason to believe that marv was scum. Granted, Risen's ranting about marv at the end of the day could have potentially made the medic wary of marv, but that's a longshot (and a mistake I personally made in DFMM, where I convinced myself marv was suspicious and protected sciberbia n1 instead of the obvious choice in marv).
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On September 11 2012 00:39 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Alright.
I think it's worth saying again that Ange777 died last night. She had the most well-formed suspicions of Zephirdd and in this game she wasn't necessarily the most obvious shot otherwise. HOLY FUCKING SHIT MARV ange was one of the most solid townies on the clusterfuck of day1, and i remember someone saying she is a good hunter as well. If the setup has a rb (which I nelieve it does, because I have no suspicion of keirathi) then scum would fear a medic and not shoot veterans like you and me. I, for one, would never believe a medic would protect you after this day 1 and would shoot you no problem. If someone was to be protected, it'd be keirathi from the top of my head.
On September 10 2012 09:06 Zephirdd wrote: If there is a BoxeR, claim now. Keirathi's claim will be rendered true if there are two BoxeRs, or false if there is only one, and if it's false he is confirmed scum, otherwise he is most likely town. Which is immensely helpful when considering other players reactions.
So Zephirdd wants blues to claim to 'confirm' Kei, the most townie guy in the thread compared to him? scum...
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EBWOP: *according to, not compared to.
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Further to this, it can clearly shown to be scum motivated.
Why does he want BLUES TO CLAIM on his strongest townread?
If one Boxer claims, and a scum counterclaims and another townie claims, where are we now? In a mess of confusion.
Why does Zephirdd want this possible mess when Kei is his towniest read? Why does he need Kei confirmed BY OUTING BLUES?
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On September 11 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote: Further to this, it can clearly shown to be scum motivated.
Why does he want BLUES TO CLAIM on his strongest townread?
If one Boxer claims, and a scum counterclaims and another townie claims, where are we now? In a mess of confusion.
Why does Zephirdd want this possible mess when Kei is his towniest read? Why does he need Kei confirmed BY OUTING BLUES? Yea, I completely agree. It just doesn't make any sense, and is totally scum motivated. That's why I questioned him about it when he first said it, and add on that I'm his towniest read? Yea, no deal.
##vote: Zephirdd
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On September 11 2012 00:54 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. HELLOOOO!!! Where did all your activity go? I want to vote you more and more V7. I'll try to figure out the marv/zeph things later. Zpeh could you point out why marv i scummy besides meta stuff and his lack of cases this game?
How about the way he was ultra inactive during the last 24hrs, but got ultra active when called out? or how he tunnel vision'd Risen while setting up my lynch all while flip-flopping?
Idk, I can't point out specific stuff on my phone. I'll post and answer one quote at a time, and there is a high chance i'll be ninjad if you care about this stuff
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On September 11 2012 01:14 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 00:54 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. HELLOOOO!!! Where did all your activity go? I want to vote you more and more V7. I'll try to figure out the marv/zeph things later. Zpeh could you point out why marv i scummy besides meta stuff and his lack of cases this game? How about the way he was ultra inactive during the last 24hrs, but got ultra active when called out? or how he tunnel vision'd Risen while setting up my lynch all while flip-flopping? Idk, I can't point out specific stuff on my phone. I'll post and answer one quote at a time, and there is a high chance i'll be ninjad if you care about this stuff
how can i have tunnel vision and flip flop? that's a direct contradiction.
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On September 11 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote: Further to this, it can clearly shown to be scum motivated.
Why does he want BLUES TO CLAIM on his strongest townread?
If one Boxer claims, and a scum counterclaims and another townie claims, where are we now? In a mess of confusion.
Why does Zephirdd want this possible mess when Kei is his towniest read? Why does he need Kei confirmed BY OUTING BLUES?
That situation would give us 2 scum straight up, and win the game for town, wtf is wrong with you?
besides, I know there won't be a boxer claim. I also know that, if town is half smart, they'll let me live. Because I am Nestea. I'll post the breadcumbs in a sec. Too bad I won't be able to use my powers due to roleblockersm but hopetorture can protect me or keirathi.
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On September 08 2012 12:53 Zephirdd wrote: In two days I should have some clear reads on players though, making sure who is on whose's side. I'll start with bluelightz - I won't let you get away. I posted this separatedly for a reason. Here I am crumbing my parity cop abilities. Two days was in reference to two ingame days. Bluelightz was my night1 target.
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On September 10 2012 12:42 Zephirdd wrote: Incredibly enough, My thoughts on the boxer thing is that, No matter what happens, any amount of boxer claims, Even if only one claims, Should help us find scum in incredibly easy manner. Trust me on this one. i'm Eager to see what you will thing of marv, because i think his play has been incredibly Anti-town this game. capital letters spell IMNESTEA and I start with "incredibly" in the hopes that keir would realize the crumb here.
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On September 11 2012 01:22 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 12:42 Zephirdd wrote: Incredibly enough, My thoughts on the boxer thing is that, No matter what happens, any amount of boxer claims, Even if only one claims, Should help us find scum in incredibly easy manner. Trust me on this one. i'm Eager to see what you will thing of marv, because i think his play has been incredibly Anti-town this game. capital letters spell IMNESTEA and I start with "incredibly" in the hopes that keir would realize the crumb here.
you crumbed this AFTER you made your case on me. just rofl, zeph.
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On September 11 2012 01:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 01:14 Zephirdd wrote:On September 11 2012 00:54 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. HELLOOOO!!! Where did all your activity go? I want to vote you more and more V7. I'll try to figure out the marv/zeph things later. Zpeh could you point out why marv i scummy besides meta stuff and his lack of cases this game? How about the way he was ultra inactive during the last 24hrs, but got ultra active when called out? or how he tunnel vision'd Risen while setting up my lynch all while flip-flopping? Idk, I can't point out specific stuff on my phone. I'll post and answer one quote at a time, and there is a high chance i'll be ninjad if you care about this stuff how can i have tunnel vision and flip flop? that's a direct contradiction.
tunnel vision equals to focusing the same player all day. flipflop equals to changing your stance on him all the time(ie. you voted, unvoted, then voted again)
Your move, cheeser.
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On September 11 2012 01:20 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 12:53 Zephirdd wrote: In two days I should have some clear reads on players though, making sure who is on whose's side. I'll start with bluelightz - I won't let you get away. I posted this separatedly for a reason. Here I am crumbing my parity cop abilities. Two days was in reference to two ingame days. Bluelightz was my night1 target.
this one is more plausible though. arg.
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##unvote
Those crumbs seem credible. I noticed how weird both of those quotes felt, but I'm terrible at noticing crumbs.
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On September 11 2012 01:24 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 01:22 Zephirdd wrote:On September 10 2012 12:42 Zephirdd wrote: Incredibly enough, My thoughts on the boxer thing is that, No matter what happens, any amount of boxer claims, Even if only one claims, Should help us find scum in incredibly easy manner. Trust me on this one. i'm Eager to see what you will thing of marv, because i think his play has been incredibly Anti-town this game. capital letters spell IMNESTEA and I start with "incredibly" in the hopes that keir would realize the crumb here. you crumbed this AFTER you made your case on me. just rofl, zeph.
I posted this because keirathi was asking stuff on the boxer part, and I was hoping he'd pick it up. My true crumb was made during the night, and I posted it just now.
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yeah I know. I'm thinking. ninjad you.
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##Unvote
The first one was too long ago for it to be created in response to pressure. Zeph could be incredibly sneaky scum but the most plausible explanation is that he's Nestea.
Now I'm lost.
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Zeph, if you're town you need to start entertaining the notion that I'm town and start working with me and not against me.
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For the record, hopetorture should not claim if it isn't obvious. Any boxer claim should be looked really carefully at, because I don't think keirathi is scum.
my read on marv hasn't changed.
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So, in light of Zeph's claim, can we take another look at vader?
1) Tunnels Risen for all of day 1. In fact, besides quoting 2 posts from me, he hasn't mentioned a SINGLE person in this game outside of Risen. Literally no one.
2) Promise to be around today and answer questions that he hasn't delivered on, while we were all fighting amongst ourselves.
3) No reads at all. Like, how was there nothing at all to get from day 1?
4) Overall lurkiness all game.
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EBWOP: Oh, he also quoted a post from Dirk. But my point still stands, he hasn't actually directly mentioned a single person aside from Risen.
Also, I feel like some of his points for his "read" on Risen were really weak and stretching (particularly the whole "OMG he used bold green letters!", when there were so many more plausible things to vote him for).
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On September 11 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote: Zeph, if you're town you need to start entertaining the notion that I'm town and start working with me and not against me. Show me the effort and interest you are capable of showing on your games, and I'll consider it.
also either v7 or bluelightz is town, I don't see both as scum. The fact that v7 hasn't showed up yet but bluelightz did and and decided to keep his "outside of the confusion" read makes me think v7 is legit afk while bluez is trying to skim by unnoticed.
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look at my fucking play today and tell me i haven't put in effort
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Keirathi, what do you make of BL completely avoiding the main arguments of today?
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for the record, Zeph, just because I believe your claim at the moment, doesn't make your case on me less of a pile of shit.
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So marv, what are your thoughts on BL and v7?
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On September 11 2012 01:52 marvellosity wrote: Keirathi, what do you make of BL completely avoiding the main arguments of today? I'm of two thoughts:
First, it makes sense for him not to get into the argument about Zeph. He already stated multiple times that he had a town read on Zeph, and wasn't going to vote him today. So, in that context, his case on v7 makes sense as part of trying to stop the Zeph train.
However, he stated he was suspicious of you day 1 and mildly stated he was still paranoid about you today, but his counterwagon to the Zeph case was on v7 instead of adding more information to his townread's case against you. Doesn't make much sense.
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On September 11 2012 02:01 Zephirdd wrote: So marv, what are your thoughts on BL and v7?
Before you claimed I thought I had the game solved and it was you and BL as scum.
I know I've been soft-defending BL for much of the game, but he's remained totally disconnected with the game today when he had a chance not to be.
He has poked suspicions at me for being alive, but clarified that he left me alive in NMM2 when there were other more useful players than me to kill. However, when I ask him if he thinks I was the most useful player Day 1 in THIS GAME, he refuses to answer and makes his case on vader instead.
I have a slightly wonky townish read on vader. Hard to explain but I'm getting an uninterested/bad townie vibe from him rather than scum.
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Hum. Seems legit. ##unvote ##vote bluelightz
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Just as some food for thought. If we take that your claim is genuine, it heavily suggests that scum aren't paying that much attention to the thread. Like Kei I didn't pick up on your crumbs at all, but as scum I scour the thread for shit like that.
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If Zpehs Nestea claim is to be believed and I do believe in it. No reason for scum to gamble like that with a nestea claim that can easily mean that they loose one member. They have no way of knowing if there is a Nestea in the game or not (50% chance) so its rather risky to claim. Considering Zeph made crumbs make me believe this isn't a "omg I'm getting Lynched I'll just claim to make take a townie with me".
So that leaves him out for the lynch. Vader vanished after saying he would have the whole day off work and would be more active. Only reason I can see for disappearing is because town was already dead set on lynching Zephirdd who he didn't really care about.
On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen
Vaders first post is made to attack Risen while defend Prplhz. Something I found strange at the time since both persons reason for voting eachother was stupid. Why take a stance with so little infomation and equally shitty posts from 2 different persons.
On September 08 2012 15:05 vaderseven wrote: Risen played horribly. That sucks. :/ The smiley gets my scumbells ringing. Screams false investment in the lynch. "Oh look at me I'm sad he died I'm so town"
On September 09 2012 09:49 vaderseven wrote:That narrows down the setup types possible OR you are lieing in order to make us think that. Not saying you are a liar btw. "Not saying you are a liar btw" Then what is the point of this post? Yes there is a distinct possible that Keir is lieing but we all know that. All the post did was blow into the ashes of uncertainty: "Did he lie or not?" without saying anything direct himself.
On September 10 2012 16:54 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum? I have no leads atm.
If you don't like the cases you make your own case. He stated he have the time due to time of work and promised activity but he haven't posted since.
All you know from reading Vaders filter is that Risan was scummy and Prplhz first post wasn't scummy.
##unvote ##Vote Vaderseven
I would not be surprised by a prplhz vader scumteam
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On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote: God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
i hadn't noticed this previously. ick.
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Guys BL is doing his thing. He always have his own targets and when he is town by some miracle he is right quite often.
You should vote Vader, if not to policy lynch him for promising activty and failing to deliver, then because of my awesome case on him and his careless approach to the game and his inactivity.
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Kei, who do you prefer out of vader and BL?
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Ugh, dirk is making sense. A lot. I kinda want bz dead because of my parity cop ability, bit i'd say that it is pretty useless when there is a rb. It also makes sense that scum would be inactive if we assume marv and keirathi are town and we've just been rambling conveniently.
I've been considering all of this and... where the fuck is prplhz?
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yeah, prplhz came in to shout at me about BL/you, I asked him a question and he promptly disappeared.
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I have to go out to a chess match imminently, which sucks enormously.
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I think I prefer vader over BL.
BL does have some contradictory points, but vader just straight up said he was going to be around and answering questions today but hasn't. And he said he has absolutely nothing in the way of reads, and that all of the cases today felt bad to him.
Completely disinterested, lurky, backed down on his promise:
Vote: vaderseven
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EBWOP: ##Vote: vaderseven
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I'm going to look like a complete dick and vote for the guy who I just said I had a wonky townread on. I totally missed vader promising to be more active and then not participating at all today when there was so much to participate in.
##Vote: vaderseven
I hopefully should be able to follow the thread at some extent and I should be home before deadline.
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I really want to look at prplhz later when Im not on my phone, namely his interactions with ange777 and the context of his bluelightz accusation. It also bugs me that he didnt vote bz today even though he did post today.
for now I'll vote v7 too. Dirkzor made sense about him, and I dont think we can move to another candidate at this point.
I'm officially off, going to work and no time to text on my phone.
##unvote ##vote vaderseven
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Can we get a vote count? <3
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WHERE IS VADER AND PRPLHZ!?!?!
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So everyone is content with Vader lynch? Even vader himself? with 1½ hour to lynch I had expected more traffic here... I'm currently re-reading d1. Nothing have caught my attention yet...
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All im reading day 1 is how bad prp and vader played then aswell... I'm lost if they tunr out to be town...
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Since no one wants to play or care about this I'm going to bed. My life is to short to sit here and f5 when nothing happens...
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On September 11 2012 06:08 Dirkzor wrote: Since no one wants to play or care about this I'm going to bed. My life is to short to sit here and f5 when nothing happens... Sorry, I was out working in the yard. Just came in to take a break because its like 100 degrees outside.
Anyways, yea, I'm pretty content with the vader lynch, for the reasons I already stated. I'm a little worried that he could just be legit-busy townie, but why promise to be here today and then not do it? He hasn't even tried to defend himself. I think its more likely that he's scum trying to just fly by under the radar.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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##Vote vaderseven
I can get on board this lynch, thought he was kind of weird day1 and with no counter claim yet it looks like Zephirdd is actually a cop.
I have no idea why people are hating on the Bluelightz lynch so much though.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Supply Block Count
vaderseven (6): Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Keirathi, marvellosity, Zephirdd, prplhz
Not Voting (1): vaderseven
Currently, vaderseven is set to be lynched. With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 30 minutes at Monday, Sep 10 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Hello prplhz, how are you? we missed you here.
I was looking at your filter. Interesting stuff popped up. Stuff like this:
On September 09 2012 03:27 prplhz wrote: Hey Bluelightz how do you feel about this game? Do you think that Ange777 is scum? Previous to this post, you had very little interactions with Ange777 and this is basically the first time you voice suspicion on her.
But the thing is, the way you are doing it at what point in time. For context, this happened after I made my case on bluelightz(which was pretty terrible looking back at it), and you made a new case on bluelightz right after this, and right after you said Ange777 was possibly scum.
The thing is, these timings feel too wrong because Ange777 was killed that night. to me, it feels like you tried to make bluelightz say something bad about ange777 before flipping her, and use that information to lynch bluelightz tonight. You chose bluelightz for that because I had just made a case on him earlier, and your case was even worse. Furthermore, you came in today and didn't vote the one who you said to be your top scum read, all while being AWOL during my and marvellosity's exchange.
Like... I don't know why I looked for ange777 interactions when searching through your filter, but this is incredibly glaring.
prplhz, can you give your opinion on Dirkzor, marvellosity and Bluelightz right now?
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On September 11 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote: ##Vote vaderseven
I can get on board this lynch, thought he was kind of weird day1 and with no counter claim yet it looks like Zephirdd is actually a cop.
I have no idea why people are hating on the Bluelightz lynch so much though.
Now zephirdd was a legit lynchcandidate that needed a cop claim not to get your vote while earlier you thought Zeph was a bad lynch?
that how I read it anyway..
That prp is voting Vader makes me iffy. After re-reading I would rather see prp hang but its kinda late for that. And I'm to tired to make a case now...
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hey marv, read my latest post on prplhz. what do you think?
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I think it's a bit of a stretch, and I think we can see where we stand after vader's flip.
Too many assumptions that have to string together.
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fuck my bad.
who should i vote
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Since you are dead soon gives us all your reads. Fast
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
you don't believe his claim then? do you have a role to counterclaim?
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Supply Block Count
vaderseven (6): Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Keirathi, marvellosity, Zephirdd, prplhz Zephirdd (1): vaderseven
Currently, vaderseven is set to be lynched. With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 8 minutes at Monday, Sep 10 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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rofl. 10min for the lynch and he comes. Like, exactly. Dat timing
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oh dear lord im hopetorture.
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someone better counterclaim asap.
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where the fuck have you been.
you're away all day and you waltz in claimnig the other blue?
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i have time to play now too qq
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mostly i want to ragequit
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Vote prp? :D (and no I dont think this. Vader needs to go)
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what if i told you
this could be a claim to try a no-lynch?
I really don't believe it >_>"
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Basiaclly im trying to play low key medic and got a bit too busy last few days guys.
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a bit too busy when you said you had days off?
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Really? You promised to be here today and participate, then 10 minutes before deadline you FINALLY show up and claim medic because your neck is on the line?
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today and tomorrow are days off... and i slept in qq.
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I got notified of a pending mod kill and came in asap
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if you flip hopetorture, i'm never playing in a game with you again.
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well i should be banned and have to sit out obv. this is way too much of a fuck up.
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I protected prphlz last night.
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well, we're committed now.
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On September 11 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote: Well this is just swell.
I bet you love it huh.
I am so dead the next day.
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i think prpl seems fairly hard to read this game. thats my most significant read. i think alot of other cases are just pokes without merit at this point.
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I think marvs anger sound fairly true atm too so thats a pro town point for him.
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brilliant. you've been in this game for 144 hours and your best read is "someone is hard to read".
what a fucking pro.
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On September 11 2012 07:00 marvellosity wrote: brilliant. you've been in this game for 144 hours and your best read is "someone is hard to read".
what a fucking pro.
True.
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calm down marv. I agree with him that you do look protown atm, and (after a few hours reflecting about it) my case was probably wrong.
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i don't give a shit how i look, i give a shit that someone, if they are hopetorture, has ruined the game for town
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Meh. This is fucking dumb. Now both of our blues are dead and both of the mafia are still alive.
Good fucking game.
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I'm glad all the spectators are enjoying this... :D
Now show dat daypost!
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Night 2
HopeTorture knew times were grim. Close Spawns on Lost Temple is tough for any matchup, but TvP in particular turns into a total shitfest.There are a couple reasons for this, but mostly it breaks down to rush distance. The close distance is short, and the distance nat-to-nat is really really short. The lack of a high-ground nat means that expanding is extraordinarily difficult.
So when HopeTorture and NexGenius spawn close to each other, things look like they're going to go downhill, and fast. Amazingly, both players fast expand. HopeTorture goes for bio with quick medivacs, and the protoss player builds up an army of Void Rays supporting sentry/zealot in anticipation of a 2-base push.
Things start to heat up as 2 base macro kicks in, when suddenly HopeTorture's base goes dead. The auto-mining still happens, but units aren't moving, production has halted, and idle workers lie everywhere. What happened? Is the player AFK? It makes no sense to suddenly stop giving keyboard inputs. There's been no signal to the judges asking for a pause, and no sign of an equipment malfunction. Something is wrong, but nobody knows what.
Artosis cranes his slender birdlike neck to get a better view of the booth but can't see what's going on. In the meantime. NexGenius rolls in and takes out HopeTorture's natural. Suddenly the Terran player springs into action to try to defend his base, but he's lost too much-- he came back to his keyboard too late. He mounts a final, desperate attempt, pulling scvs and marines as the Void Rays, sentries, and zealots pour into his base. All his warriors perish, their deaths futile at the hands of the skilled protoss control. The game is over.
The speculations continues, however. Threads on teamliquid.net spring up faster than they can be cut down. People, fans, foreigners want to know. What happened? Where was he? Why wasn't he there to defend his nat? Why did he suddenly stop?
Artosis guesses it may be foul play, especially after the horrible cheese death yesterday. But nobody knows. Fact is, HopeTorture is out. As his last buildings collapse, he types those fateful letters.
"gg"
vaderseven as HopeTorture the RainBOw has been eliminated!
It is now Night 2. The Night ends at Tuesday, Sep 11 7:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Make sure to get night actions into me and DoYouHas by that time.
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Not really. if V7 is town, then you have bluelightz and prplhz to look at. IMO dirkzor does not look scum at this point, and keirathi is confirmed because of RB.
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shiat... Prplhz is scum with... someone... I'll find that someone later.
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the 'gg' in the nightpost is particularly misplaced
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why sign up if you're just gonna fucking shit the game up for everyone
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Yea, I'm really liking the prplhz lynch now. I gave him the BotD because marv seemed convinced that he was too active and interested to be scum, and the other cases today had merit as well. How long before we stop giving his terrible play the BotD and hold him accountable for the scummy shit he's done?
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yeah without rereading atm i'm ok killing prplhz
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OKAY. Fuck. I'm probably dead tomorrow. Things to look at:
1. Bluelightz has been "tunneling" vaderseven for a while. V7's case for most people was that he promised some stuff and didn't post in time. Bluelightz went from null to scum without interactions, and has been AWOL for most of the day.
2. this is the list of players right now:
2) Zephirdd 3) Keirathi - was roleblocked n1 5) Bluelightz 7) Marvellosity 8) Dirkzor 9) prplhz
To me, the scummiest of the players is between Bluelightz and prplhz and, to a very lower extent(considering he was bluelightz' savior), Dirkzor.
Tomorrow is LYLO(3v2) and I don't think Bluelightz is town at all. prplhz has made a case on bluelightz and was willing to push him today, while dirkzor saved his ass. I don't know which of these is worse.
I'll probably die tomorrow, so don't consider my check.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Not that anyone has mentioned it yet, but let's keep any discussion of bans / modkills until the postgame.
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hmm
I wonder if we shouldn't kill BL first then
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Also, because I think it's a good idea, I'll throw my town reads.
Marvellosity - I think he is town because of today's fight. Every time he deflected an argument of mine, my head told me "bitch is trying to deceive me" but upon thinking further and upon his reaction to my claim, I believe he is town. My case wasn't as strong as I initally thought, and he has been putting effort and emotion that looks like his town self.
Keirathi - he was roleblocked and took an active part on day 2 discussion. He also helped me in making sense today.
Dirkzor - He's in the middle of the list because he was also active during today(although less than keirathi) and because he didn't have a pile of shit as a case. I have a little bug behind my ear with this guy because his case did deflect bluelightz' lynch and killed a townie too, but I don't think it is really that much of an indication to be honest because he wasn't entirely wrong on his case and the situation warranted it.
prplhz - he made a case on Bluelightz during the night and then never voted for his own scum read nor he made any effort to push his case during the day. To me, he felt like he was very satisfied with the way day 2 was rolling, and he made a really terrible case out of pure bussing.
Bluelightz - Red. Seriously. Null read into scum read day 1 without explaining it, going "I told you so" after risen's lynch, and generally inactive and bad during today. Bluelightz at least tries to make sense of stuff once in a while, and we never saw his signature list-of-all-town-reads.
So, at this point, I'm willing to believe a bluelightz lynch followed by a prplhz lynch will net us the win.
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yeah, the common thing between prplhz and Dirkzor is BL, so we should lynch him first.
Will try to make myself re-read everything before the night is up.
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I've been staring at this thread for like 2 hours (with an occasional IRC break) since I got home trying to make some sense of it.
Some things I noticed: Bluelightz and prplhz had basically no interactions with each other until n1, then suddenly prplhz has a fully fleshed out. Except, once the day starts, prplhz is MIA (and therefore isn't voting BL) for basically the whole day, and then hops onboard the v7 lynch at the end. Meanwhile, BL *still* hasn't given an opinion about prplhz. His only mention of him at all was to respond to prplhz's case. Early on in the Risen debacle, he gave Risen a public town read, but didn't mention anything about the prplhz.
I'm pretty sure we have our scumteam here, but Dirkzor does complicate things. I basically have a completely null read on him. I know that he's been here and posting, but nothing he has said has ever really stood out or been memorable. Reading back over today, he flat-out defend BL earlier in the day, and then after the Zeph claim and we start meandering around: 1) i called out vader 2) Zeph called out BL 3) marv agrees with zeph that BL is scummy, and has a town read on vader 4) Zeph votes for BL 5) Dirk steps in with a big case on vader, and all the conversation about BL stops.
@marv, Zeph: I still think prplhz is the scummiest person, and I'm not really sure why both of you have deemed BL to be scummier. BL does seem to have links to prplhz AND Dirk, so I guess I can kind of see your reasoning and if you wanted to lynch BL first i could consolidate there, but it feels "wrong" not to be voting my scummiest read.
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oh and by the way, if(by 'if' i mean 'when') prplhz flips scum, I'll fucking yell at everyone and say that I called it with the kenpachi-rule-extended which will from now on be known as the Zephirdd Rule.
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Hey Zephirdd who gives a shit who I voted for? It was pretty obvious who I wanted to lynch yesterday and I pushed that lynch and asked people if they'd support it or not and mostly people just said "no" for no discernible reason. Who gives a shit if I voted for him or not when my intention and motivation was obvious? You are grabbing on to a dumb administrative detail and trying to make a case out of it.
I thought about voting with my case but that was during the night so I didn't and I just never came around to it during the day because who gives a shit. No one.
I think marvellosity was being really merciful when he described this thought process of yours as "a bit of a stretch".
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I'm not even going to comment on the Kenpachi Rule thing because we went over that already and my brain cells writhed in agony the entire time.
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From your reasoning it looks like you just want your rule to be correct and that's why you think I'm scum. I can't see anything else to it. Not gonna spend any more time on it though because you're likely townie, it's just baffling how bad your case is.
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Hey Keirathi why am I scum? You want to lynch me, but you also want to lynch the guy I have been pushing for days.
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I can get behind a BL lynch but I would much rather lynch prplhz. The reason for me to go against a BL lynch earlier was that it was to easy ot get him lynched. BL rarely post more then a few times a day and thus would not gives us anything to work with and i don't find him too scummy this game.
Now at lylo that doesn't really work anymore since we need to get the mafiosos.
I still think prplhz is the most scummy with BL/marv/kei coming behind (in that order). I didn't add zephirdd because he will most likely die. If he doesn't I'll think about then when it happens.
On September 11 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote: ##Vote vaderseven
I can get on board this lynch, thought he was kind of weird day1 and with no counter claim yet it looks like Zephirdd is actually a cop.
I have no idea why people are hating on the Bluelightz lynch so much though. This got posted 30 min before deadline.
Right after that post he is asked several questions here (zephirdd) and here (me)
He is clearly reading the thread because he made a follow up to marvs response to Zephirdd's case/post on prplhz just stating:
On September 11 2012 06:49 prplhz wrote: "a bit"
lol Why not repsond to the questions asked? Prplhz havent willingly given up any reads this game. He was onto Risen day 1. Then changed to Keir when the momentum changed. He than later changed back to Risen with this:
On September 07 2012 05:05 prplhz wrote: Yea okay.
marvellosity points out that Risen does a scumslip. This scumslip isn't just for Risen though, it also implicates marvellosity as well. Bussing requires two scum, not one. marvellosity realizes that if Risen is lynched it is only a matter of time before someone figures this out and so he backs off. His backing off is also weird, it's allegedly because the lynch gained momentum but he doesn't say this before he is called out, he just says "I have my reasons but I'm not going to explain" and then the explanation is like, 10 words long. I don't like this one bit and I'd rather lynch Risen and then we can talk about marvellosity tomorrow.
##Vote Risen Consider how much Risen had written in the beginning and that is the best reason prplhz can come up with?
When asked by ange about zeph he doesn't answer. He just brings up BL instead:
On September 09 2012 05:29 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:43 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: What do you think about Zeph? I'm not really all that worried about him right now. I'm more worried about Bluelightz. This game he was the only one to go against the Risen lynch (besides Risen himself). The last game I remember Bluelightz going against the "mainstream" lynch was Wheel of Fortune Mafia. In that game Bluelightz made a ton of cases on other people because he thought that zentor was town and that it was a mislynch. Everybody agreed that Bluelightz played really well post game, he even got a mention from Radfield in the Mafia Awards thread. This is how "moved" Bluelightz is from a mislynch that he didn't like this game: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) Next post after deadline: This doesn't look like the townie Bluelightz at all, it looks like a guy who doesn't give a shit at all and that's very unlike Bluelightz. I don't like Ange777 either, in the filters I read she was posting text wall after text wall exposing scum and apparently also carrying her team to victory. I don't see any of that here. There is prodding and there is poking but there's no whacking with a big stick but I'm less sure about this. Bluelightz is looking really bad.
If prplhz is scum he would also know that Ange was about to die. making his "I don't like Ange777 either" comment stick out. Prplhz have only given reads on players who died shortly after - or BL. This one on Ange777 and then his big "risen is scum" post at the end of d1. Here The timing of that "case" was also perfect. (also note that the reason he voted Risen the 2nd time - his scumslip - isn't mentioned in this case) The lynch was basicly decided by then.
On September 09 2012 03:29 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: Do you think that I am scum?
On September 09 2012 03:37 prplhz wrote:It's a distinct possibility. Can you answer my question and tell me why you thought Risen was scum? I don't even get why you ignored it the first time but I'm sure you have a good reason for that. Again a half answer. Of course its a distinct possibility. Then a deflection on to a guy already dead (Risen). The qeustion he wants ange to answer is 24h old. The player in question is dead. I would say the question is most likely irrelevant at that point in time. And the question asked is stupid since its all clearly written in Ange's filter. And if you go read was happens after, prplhz doesn't use the answer given by ange to anything. No follow up or anything.
But just because Prplhz is as much scum as the night is black doesn't clear BL. I think prplhz was bussing him. Why?
On September 09 2012 17:20 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi What do you think about Bluelightz?
On September 10 2012 06:49 prplhz wrote: i don't like how everybody is ignoring my bluelightz case
"that's bluelightz for you" no it isn't, this isn't bluelightz.
marv tell me why you like bluelightz and why you don't like zeph.
On September 10 2012 20:23 prplhz wrote: I don't really like this Zephirdd lynch and I have no idea how so many people can think that Bluelightz looks townie.
Dirkzor why do you think that Bluelightz is town? Fishing for other peoples townread on BL. Instead of asking why I think he is town, why didn't he try to change my/our beliefs? He didn't just as he never actively pushed for BL's lynch.
All in all I'm pretty sure prplhz is scum.
I'm not ruling out anyone at this moment but I have to go with my best scum read.
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no prplhz, you didn't push jack shit.
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On September 11 2012 19:25 marvellosity wrote: no prplhz, you didn't push jack shit. Okay.
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Prplhz if you don't want to be lynched you should start playing this game. That includes responding to the accusation I've made against you.
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On September 11 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote: I've been staring at this thread for like 2 hours (with an occasional IRC break) since I got home trying to make some sense of it.
Some things I noticed: Bluelightz and prplhz had basically no interactions with each other until n1, then suddenly prplhz has a fully fleshed out. Except, once the day starts, prplhz is MIA (and therefore isn't voting BL) for basically the whole day, and then hops onboard the v7 lynch at the end. Meanwhile, BL *still* hasn't given an opinion about prplhz. His only mention of him at all was to respond to prplhz's case. Early on in the Risen debacle, he gave Risen a public town read, but didn't mention anything about the prplhz.
I'm pretty sure we have our scumteam here, but Dirkzor does complicate things. I basically have a completely null read on him. I know that he's been here and posting, but nothing he has said has ever really stood out or been memorable. Reading back over today, he flat-out defend BL earlier in the day, and then after the Zeph claim and we start meandering around: 1) i called out vader 2) Zeph called out BL 3) marv agrees with zeph that BL is scummy, and has a town read on vader 4) Zeph votes for BL 5) Dirk steps in with a big case on vader, and all the conversation about BL stops.
@marv, Zeph: I still think prplhz is the scummiest person, and I'm not really sure why both of you have deemed BL to be scummier. BL does seem to have links to prplhz AND Dirk, so I guess I can kind of see your reasoning and if you wanted to lynch BL first i could consolidate there, but it feels "wrong" not to be voting my scummiest read.
And what if it's BL/Dirk after what happened yesterday? Can you see a prplhz/Dirk rather than BL/prplhz Dirk/BL?
I only really see Dirk as possibly scum if BL is, don't you agree?
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On September 11 2012 17:39 Dirkzor wrote:I can get behind a BL lynch but I would much rather lynch prplhz. The reason for me to go against a BL lynch earlier was that it was to easy ot get him lynched. BL rarely post more then a few times a day and thus would not gives us anything to work with and i don't find him too scummy this game. Now at lylo that doesn't really work anymore since we need to get the mafiosos. I still think prplhz is the most scummy with BL/marv/kei coming behind (in that order). I didn't add zephirdd because he will most likely die. If he doesn't I'll think about then when it happens. Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote: ##Vote vaderseven
I can get on board this lynch, thought he was kind of weird day1 and with no counter claim yet it looks like Zephirdd is actually a cop.
I have no idea why people are hating on the Bluelightz lynch so much though. This got posted 30 min before deadline. Right after that post he is asked several questions here (zephirdd) and here (me)He is clearly reading the thread because he made a follow up to marvs response to Zephirdd's case/post on prplhz just stating: Why not repsond to the questions asked? Because they were all dumb and useless.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 11 2012 06:39 Zephirdd wrote:Hello prplhz, how are you? we missed you here. I was looking at your filter. Interesting stuff popped up. Stuff like this: Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:27 prplhz wrote: Hey Bluelightz how do you feel about this game? Do you think that Ange777 is scum? Previous to this post, you had very little interactions with Ange777 and this is basically the first time you voice suspicion on her. But the thing is, the way you are doing it at what point in time. For context, this happened after I made my case on bluelightz(which was pretty terrible looking back at it), and you made a new case on bluelightz right after this, and right after you said Ange777 was possibly scum. The thing is, these timings feel too wrong because Ange777 was killed that night. to me, it feels like you tried to make bluelightz say something bad about ange777 before flipping her, and use that information to lynch bluelightz tonight. You chose bluelightz for that because I had just made a case on him earlier, and your case was even worse. Furthermore, you came in today and didn't vote the one who you said to be your top scum read, all while being AWOL during my and marvellosity's exchange. Like... I don't know why I looked for ange777 interactions when searching through your filter, but this is incredibly glaring. prplhz, can you give your opinion on Dirkzor, marvellosity and Bluelightz right now? I don't give out opinions unless I have to. My read on Bluelightz was pretty obvious from the thread and my read on you and marvellosity were irrelevant because I didn't want to lynch them and neither did anybody else. And ... that's kind of it. Nobody else wanted anything from me.
Prplhz havent willingly given up any reads this game. He was onto Risen day 1. Then changed to Keir when the momentum changed. He than later changed back to Risen with this: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:05 prplhz wrote: Yea okay.
marvellosity points out that Risen does a scumslip. This scumslip isn't just for Risen though, it also implicates marvellosity as well. Bussing requires two scum, not one. marvellosity realizes that if Risen is lynched it is only a matter of time before someone figures this out and so he backs off. His backing off is also weird, it's allegedly because the lynch gained momentum but he doesn't say this before he is called out, he just says "I have my reasons but I'm not going to explain" and then the explanation is like, 10 words long. I don't like this one bit and I'd rather lynch Risen and then we can talk about marvellosity tomorrow.
##Vote Risen Consider how much Risen had written in the beginning and that is the best reason prplhz can come up with? Yea, it's a pretty good reason to vote Risen. He had conflicting explanation for his behavior which is indicative of scum who can't figure out what they actually mean because they don't have an opinion or any motivation to do any real town work. This is a pretty fucking good reason to vote Risen.
When asked by ange about zeph he doesn't answer. He just brings up BL instead:
So what? I don't see where you are going with any of this, at no point do you actually stop to explain why you think I'm scum, you just summarize my actions and then say that I'm scum. Why does it make me scum that I didn't give you my read on someone I didn't find interesting at all and instead substitutes with my read for someone I want to lynch?Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 05:29 prplhz wrote:On September 09 2012 03:43 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: What do you think about Zeph? I'm not really all that worried about him right now. I'm more worried about Bluelightz. This game he was the only one to go against the Risen lynch (besides Risen himself). The last game I remember Bluelightz going against the "mainstream" lynch was Wheel of Fortune Mafia. In that game Bluelightz made a ton of cases on other people because he thought that zentor was town and that it was a mislynch. Everybody agreed that Bluelightz played really well post game, he even got a mention from Radfield in the Mafia Awards thread. This is how "moved" Bluelightz is from a mislynch that he didn't like this game: On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) Next post after deadline: On September 08 2012 11:34 Bluelightz wrote: Well, my read was right.
This doesn't look like the townie Bluelightz at all, it looks like a guy who doesn't give a shit at all and that's very unlike Bluelightz. I don't like Ange777 either, in the filters I read she was posting text wall after text wall exposing scum and apparently also carrying her team to victory. I don't see any of that here. There is prodding and there is poking but there's no whacking with a big stick but I'm less sure about this. Bluelightz is looking really bad. If prplhz is scum he would also know that Ange was about to die. making his "I don't like Ange777 either" comment stick out. Prplhz have only given reads on players who died shortly after - or BL. This one on Ange777 and then his big "risen is scum" post at the end of d1. Here The timing of that "case" was also perfect. (also note that the reason he voted Risen the 2nd time - his scumslip - isn't mentioned in this case) The lynch was basicly decided by then. I gave my read on Risen pretty early, I was the first god damn vote on him. This "big case" was stuff I had already said and argued repeatedly in the thread. I don't understand the last argument, I am scum because I called Ange777 scum and then she flipped town and that is clearly scum motivated? I gave my opinion on Risen during the first 10 posts and then he was lynched 48 hours later, you are arguing that that was clearly orchestrated by my scum mastermind and that is ridiculous at best.Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:29 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: Do you think that I am scum? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:37 prplhz wrote:It's a distinct possibility. Can you answer my question and tell me why you thought Risen was scum? I don't even get why you ignored it the first time but I'm sure you have a good reason for that. Again a half answer. Of course its a distinct possibility. Then a deflection on to a guy already dead (Risen). The qeustion he wants ange to answer is 24h old. The player in question is dead. I would say the question is most likely irrelevant at that point in time. And the question asked is stupid since its all clearly written in Ange's filter. And if you go read was happens after, prplhz doesn't use the answer given by ange to anything. No follow up or anything. What do you mean "again half an answer", when did I provide "half an answer" before? I gave my opinion on Ange777, her meta was off and she was my second biggest scum read but I wasn't as sure about it as I was about Bluelightz. I wrote this very literally in a post. I think that my answer here "It's a distinct possibility." actually reflects my opinion pretty well if you read it in context but you're just picking it out and yelling at it. I wrote my opinion of Ange777 before and now you're critizising me for not writing my opinion of Ange777.
I ask a lot of questions that has already been "answered" by people because that's a good way to catch scum because they just make shit up and then suddenly their stories don't add up. I did that a ton in this thread too I believe, I think it's a good way to scum hunt.
But just because Prplhz is as much scum as the night is black doesn't clear BL. I think prplhz was bussing him. Why?
You know perfectly well that you find scum one by one and not teams trying to bus each other. Those theories always go to shit.Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 17:20 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi What do you think about Bluelightz? Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 06:49 prplhz wrote: i don't like how everybody is ignoring my bluelightz case
"that's bluelightz for you" no it isn't, this isn't bluelightz.
marv tell me why you like bluelightz and why you don't like zeph. Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 20:23 prplhz wrote: I don't really like this Zephirdd lynch and I have no idea how so many people can think that Bluelightz looks townie.
Dirkzor why do you think that Bluelightz is town? Fishing for other peoples townread on BL. Instead of asking why I think he is town, why didn't he try to change my/our beliefs? He didn't just as he never actively pushed for BL's lynch. I wrote a case and I asked people to act on it but a ton of people, most frustratingly you and marvellosity, just said that Bluelightz was town enough. It's exceedingly clear if you read day1 (and that's the best day to reread to catch scum) that Bluelightz never gave a shit and not only is that scummy, it's also against his clearly defined town meta.
All in all I'm pretty sure prplhz is scum.
You just don't have any arguments or you are holding them from the thread.
I'm not ruling out anyone at this moment but I have to go with my best scum read.
Yea whatever. I said on n1 "Lets lynch this guy who doesn't give a shit" and then you said "No, lets just leave him alive and try to lynch these two blues" and then n2 you're all "Fuck, we should have lynched the guy who didn't give a shit". Well, duh.
Jesus christ. If you want me to respond to whatever case you have against me then please don't just do summary + conclusion, do summary + arguments + conclusion. You only included the two useless parts and left me filling in the blanks so that I could argue against myself and that's quite infuriating.
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except it's not against his town meta in NMM3, which you never bothered answering me on.
Why?
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Further, do you think Dirk is scum?
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Bleh I didn't have time to read NMM3 and I totally forgot about it but that doesn't matter, meta is a supportive argument at best and I don't use it for anything other than that.
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No, I don't really think that Dirkzor is scum.
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On September 11 2012 21:30 prplhz wrote: Bleh I didn't have time to read NMM3 and I totally forgot about it but that doesn't matter, meta is a supportive argument at best and I don't use it for anything other than that.
except you said it's clearly against his town meta, and my point was that it's not. Is that not worth addressing?
If Dirk isn't scum, who is your 2nd scumread?
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I'm not goong to quote your post and answer bit by bit. That will end up unreadable.
My argument in short is that you haven't been very forthcoming with your reads or opinion about this game. Actually quite the contrary. And that is a scum motive because scum knows more then the rest and don't want to get caught sharing infomation they shouldn't have had.
Your risen for voting risen (see what I did there?) the 2nd time is crap. And you point out why yourself here:
You know perfectly well that you find scum one by one and not teams trying to bus each other. Those theories always go to shit. If Risen scumslipped why would marv point it out? And why would marv back out?
+ Show Spoiler +Reason for my mention of BL/prplhz scum team was because of marv/zephirdd/kei talking about how to connect BL to you or me.
if you think your argument for voting risen the 2nd is/was so good why not mention it again in you big post why you tinhk Risen is scum? But you didn't. So it wasn't such a big deal huh? You know that scum makes stuff up and then forget tihngs and fuck up. Its a good way to catch scum... huh...
Half answer: When asked by ange about zeph you write: "I'm not really all that worried about him right now." ang continue to the post with a case on BL. When asked by Ange about ange you write: "It's a distinct possibility" and then bring back up some 24h old question.
My argument is that you have been just as disinterested in this game as BL have but less forthcoming with your reads.
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Oh fuck, vaderseven.
Why the fuck are you guys for pointing at me for lynching a medic that didn't BOTHER defend and claimed in the last 10 minutes? only because of an impending modkill.
Looking over some other stuff, prplhz looks like a fine lynch target, but I guess I should be more careful when pushing people.
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because you've done jack shit all game
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On September 11 2012 22:39 Quatol wrote: because you've done jack shit all game
that account will be the death of me
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On September 11 2012 21:37 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 21:30 prplhz wrote: Bleh I didn't have time to read NMM3 and I totally forgot about it but that doesn't matter, meta is a supportive argument at best and I don't use it for anything other than that. except you said it's clearly against his town meta, and my point was that it's not. Is that not worth addressing? If Dirk isn't scum, who is your 2nd scumread?
prplhz, answer marv. After bluelightz, who would you lynch if it isn't dirkzor, considering my fight with marvellosity, the way it rolled out, and how keirathi has been generally useful and was roleblocked, as well as my claim.
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On September 11 2012 22:38 Bluelightz wrote: Oh fuck, vaderseven.
Why the fuck are you guys for pointing at me for lynching a medic that didn't BOTHER defend and claimed in the last 10 minutes? only because of an impending modkill.
Looking over some other stuff, prplhz looks like a fine lynch target, but I guess I should be more careful when pushing people.
We were pointing at you before the medic was lynched. V7 being a medic and the way he defended himself has nothing to do with you being scum.
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On September 11 2012 22:39 Quatol wrote: because you've done jack shit all game Happy Birthday Quatol!
On September 11 2012 22:38 Bluelightz wrote: Oh fuck, vaderseven.
Why the fuck are you guys for pointing at me for lynching a medic that didn't BOTHER defend and claimed in the last 10 minutes? only because of an impending modkill.
Looking over some other stuff, prplhz looks like a fine lynch target, but I guess I should be more careful when pushing people.
This post is actually really super duper scummy.
BL didn't lynch anyone, so why does he assume we think he was behind the V7 lynch?
Prplhz is "fine". What?!? Why? And no you shouldn't be more careful when pushing because that how you get scummy people lynched.
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On September 12 2012 00:44 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:39 Quatol wrote: because you've done jack shit all game Happy Birthday Quatol! Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:38 Bluelightz wrote: Oh fuck, vaderseven.
Why the fuck are you guys for pointing at me for lynching a medic that didn't BOTHER defend and claimed in the last 10 minutes? only because of an impending modkill.
Looking over some other stuff, prplhz looks like a fine lynch target, but I guess I should be more careful when pushing people. This post is actually really super duper scummy. BL didn't lynch anyone, so why does he assume we think he was behind the V7 lynch? Prplhz is "fine". What?!? Why? And no you shouldn't be more careful when pushing because that how you get scummy people lynched.
I'm the one people are pointing sticks on after the mislynch
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we were pointing fingers at you before the mislynch, just we agreed with Dirk at the time and killed vader instead.
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BL - we're gonna need 2 scumreads from you and why. Pronto.
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On September 11 2012 17:29 prplhz wrote: Hey Keirathi why am I scum? You want to lynch me, but you also want to lynch the guy I have been pushing for days. I already made my case against you on n1. On top of that, all you did day2 was lurk, then show up at the very end and throw a weak vote on vader to avoid a mod-kill.
And "pushing for days" is being extremely generous to yourself. You made a case halfway through n1, and your only "push" to get people to vote it d2 was "I don't like the Zeph case. Why is everyone ignoring BL".
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EBWOP: For reference, just in case you're too lazy to go back and look:
On September 09 2012 06:48 Keirathi wrote: prplhz
1) OMGUS vote against Risen. He tried to say it wasn't an OMGUS vote, but his wording was literally "I can't believe that Risen can be serious." Why does a townie need to get that defensive over a fluff case at the start of the game? Yes, the case was terrible, but prplhz's response to it was equally terrible.
2) Unvotes Risen to sheep marv onto the case against me, without any explanation. Then, when marv hops onto Risen, prplhz sheeps him again and re-votes Risen.
3) Never really pushes anyone until the lynch outcome was basically already decided. His case on Risen was so late that, while it added some new points, it doesn't really feel like scumhunting, and more like trying to make sure he had some quality scumhunting in his filter.
I will say this though, having played with scum prplhz in Dwarf Fortress, he is definitely more active and involved here. Hell, he never even had a single case in DF, was almost modkilled, and only showed up at the end of the day to defend himself from lurker accusations. That's really the only experience I have with him though, so I'll ask other people who have played with him more: is prplhz's scum meta ALWAYS disinterested and lurky?
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just judging from today, the prplhz/BL team is firming up in my mind
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Marv - have you considered that the RB on kei was self inflicted?
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Dirkzor, I too have. On this kind of setup, using a roleblock on a town player will not only confirm the setup for players but also make that player look good.
However, Keirathi would deserve a mafia player of the century if his play so far was made from a scum perspective in my opinion. He's been constructive, he's been making ton of sense, and he's been showing a lot of stuff other town players don't realize. Hell, I'd argue I would have been roleblocked if he was scum, because he noticed my breadcumb really early.
Besides, it's not hard to imagine that he would be a blue if you think of his day 1 play. I had a green read on him at least, and instantly thought he was telling the truth when claiming RB.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Day Post incoming. Please stand by.
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inconvenient LVII deadlines
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Day 3
Artosis pondered quietly as he sat on the toilet. The toilet, for him, was one of the few places he could find peace and solitude in the heavily-urbanized South Korean cityscape. A contemplative and analytical man at heart,he knew something was afoot. Something horrible. That incident with NaDa was only the first, he knew that much. There were no leads though, no suspects. Who was the cheeser?
He'd arranged a meeting ahead of time, with someone he knew he could trust: choyafOu. A brilliant Protoss, one of the great players of his age. Nobody knew they'd meet, nobody except of course a couple Gretech officials who'd approved the meeting and John the Translator who'd be facilitating. No-one else could be trusted. Not even Tasteless.
Now is the time. Artosis makes his way down the hall to the meeting room when he notices a smell in the air. His eyes widen in horror. No. NO NO NO NO-- Suddenly, he's running. Sprinting. He skids to a halt in front of the door. He yanks at the knob, but it's locked. NO NO NO
He pounds on the door, and in his fury he kicks it off its hinges. The smell of cooking oil and curds washes over him, sickeningly familiar.
In a puddle of grease and milk product is the body of choyafOu. He's not breathing. Artosis drags him clear of the toxic room, and realizes his chest isn't rising and falling like it ought to. The caster pounds his chest as he was trained, and breathes into the mouth of his dying friend. For what seems like an hour, he continues CPR until John, who heard his cries, comes running with Gom Employees.
As the auto-defib takes over for him. Artosis collapses against the wall. What was happening? Who was cheesing people? Who would KILL choyafOu?
As the ambulance carries the progamer away, even the teamliquid.net forums are mournfully silent.
marvellosity as choyafOu the progamer has been cheesed to death!
It is now Day 3. With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends in 48 hours at Thursday, Sep 13 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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that was somewhat unexpected
gg
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Oh wow. Well, I didn't expect that. At all. to be honest, I was expecting keirathi to be shot.
Obviously I was roleblocked.
Anyways
##Vote Bluelightz
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
If you wish to switch to a 24-hour day, PM me. If I receive PMs from all 5 living players in the next 24 hours requesting a shortened day, the day will end 24 hours early. If 1 or more players abstains or votes against the shortened day, the day will be 48 hours as normal.
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Sorry I'm a bit late to the day starting. I got Guild Wars 2 yesterday, so I've been kind of addicted to that.
Okay, so I'm like 90% sure that we've caught the scumteam in BL+prplhz.
Laying out my points for them being a scumteam again:
1) BL's only read towards prplhz the entire game was
On September 11 2012 22:38 Bluelightz wrote: Oh fuck, vaderseven.
Why the fuck are you guys for pointing at me for lynching a medic that didn't BOTHER defend and claimed in the last 10 minutes? only because of an impending modkill.
Looking over some other stuff, prplhz looks like a fine lynch target, but I guess I should be more careful when pushing people. ....which came last night. After people already started pointing fingers at a BL+prplhz scumteam.
2) Early on during the Risen fallout, BL gave Risen a town read while completely ignoring prplhz, despite the fact that he gave Risen a town read BECAUSE of the case on prplhz. Why wasn't he at least suspicious of the person his town read had a case on? Or not even be suspicious of prplhz, I just don't see how he could completely IGNORE it.
3) After all their ignoring each other day1, prplhz comes out with a fully fleshed out case during n1 against BL. Where did that read come from? Granted, a townie could do that too, but the kicker: after his case (the only real case prplhz has made all game that wasn't a throwaway case on the person who already had a majority vote and set to be lynched), the only time prplhz attempted to "push" the case was saying "All the cases on Zeph are bad, why is everyone ignoring my case on BL". That doesn't feel like someone trying to lynch BL, it feels like someone trying to SEEM like he wants to lynch BL. He literally never tried to get any traction going on the case at all, or added new information to it. They both just lurked the whole day away.
However, like I said, I don't think a BL+Dirk team is impossible at this point. I honestly had basically a 100% null read on Dirkzor all game, because I feel like he's sort of floated by under the radar, being active but not impactful. At least until the Zeph claim yesterday. I already laid out the chain of events, but here it is once more for convenience (and easier to read, this time)
1) Zeph claims cop, and people realize he's telling the truth and start unvoting. Note that his vote was on Zeph, with his only reasoning being he was sheeping Ange's case from n1.
2) I asked people to go look back into vader again and consider him as a vote candidate now.
3) Zeph proposes a case on BL instead, and votes him
4) Marv agrees with the BL lynch and votes, and gives an "uninterested townie" read to vader
5) Dirk steps in with a large case on vader, and convinces everyone onto him instead because he has a town read on BL.
Even after this, he still gives a town read to BL. Except, as soon as vader flips:
On September 11 2012 17:39 Dirkzor wrote: I can get behind a BL lynch but I would much rather lynch prplhz. The reason for me to go against a BL lynch earlier was that it was to easy ot get him lynched. BL rarely post more then a few times a day and thus would not gives us anything to work with and i don't find him too scummy this game.
Now at lylo that doesn't really work anymore since we need to get the mafiosos.
I still think prplhz is the most scummy with BL/marv/kei coming behind (in that order). I didn't add zephirdd because he will most likely die. If he doesn't I'll think about then when it happens.
He says he could get behind a BL lynch, but is still soft defending him and wanting to lynch prplhz first.
So, while I do still think BL+prplhz is the scumteam, the chance of BL+Dirk is too high to ignore. I would rather have to make the decision between prplhz vs Dirk in 2-1 LYLO with a confirmed scum dead, than lose today because I was slightly wrong. Either way, in both cases, BL is scum.
##Vote: Bluelightz
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I've been considering your thoughts on dirk too, keir. There is a post that rings my bell here:
On September 11 2012 19:47 Dirkzor wrote: Prplhz if you don't want to be lynched you should start playing this game. That includes responding to the accusation I've made against you.
I mean, prplhz is supposed to be scum from his perspective IMO. Why would he post this?
The problem I have here with prplhz vs dirkzor is 1. last time prplhz was useless and I had an early scum read on him, he ended up being scum. 2. Dirkzor always rings my bells like that but ultimately ends up town
I idk, I'm more inclined to prplhz right now.
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So you think prplhz+Dirk scumteam?
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Right, I thought your post meant you were reconsidering your vote on Bluelightz into a vote on prplhz, because you were worried about prplhz+Dirk scumteam. My bad
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speaking of which, where the fuck is everyone.
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Yea, these different time zones are annoying. We're basically on completely opposite schedules. Dirk/BL/prpl post while I'm sleeping, and you and I post while they're sleeping.
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I'll lynch whoever keir and zephirdd want. Basicly i'm 99% that its prplhz and BL for scum. So lynching BL or prplhz first doesn't really matter for me. The 1% is if Keir is scum and RB himself n1.
If lynching BL helps you get a better read on me or prplhz I say lynch him first.
How are you with the shortened days?
And all ask me anything and I'll answer the best I can. I'm not sure if it would help if I pushed more cases on prplhz or BL at this point. I will if you ask me - my case on prplhz stands, but I could try to dig deeper.
I've tried to be transparent in my thought process throughout the game. Not something that can be said about either Prplhz or BL.
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I've also been transparent, you're just mad that I don't give out reads left and right but those are the people I don't care about because I don't really think they're scum. Why do you want me to rate people I find townie on a townie list, that seems rather odd. And that you get mad about it seems scummy to be honest, only scum can use townie lists for anything.
I was asked about a person I didn't think was scum and I ignored the question and instead talked about someone I thought was scum. How is that not transparent?
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Because that leaves nothing to hold you to later. When not giving out any reads we can not go back and look later how you're take on a situation was.
On September 11 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote: ##Vote vaderseven
I can get on board this lynch, thought he was kind of weird day1 and with no counter claim yet it looks like Zephirdd is actually a cop.
I have no idea why people are hating on the Bluelightz lynch so much though.
Post like these. You had never mentioned Vader before this post. You claim that you found him weird d1 but we have no way to know that because you never mentioned that. For all we know you were making up shit about him looking weird day1 because thats what everyone else said - and thats most likely what you did.
You never willingly gave up reads. Town or scum or "he is weird" or "I'm not sure. This was scummy but this was town-like." I/we never asked you give up your town-reads just your reads. We can't all be town? (well to you we can because you already know who's who)
You've only really talked about Risen or BL. Thats not very transparent is it?
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On September 11 2012 23:42 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 21:37 marvellosity wrote:On September 11 2012 21:30 prplhz wrote: Bleh I didn't have time to read NMM3 and I totally forgot about it but that doesn't matter, meta is a supportive argument at best and I don't use it for anything other than that. except you said it's clearly against his town meta, and my point was that it's not. Is that not worth addressing? If Dirk isn't scum, who is your 2nd scumread? prplhz, answer marv. After bluelightz, who would you lynch if it isn't dirkzor, considering my fight with marvellosity, the way it rolled out, and how keirathi has been generally useful and was roleblocked, as well as my claim. Another point in case.
Answer the question? Who is scum besides BL and why?
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Why aren't either of you voting for bluelightz.
wtf is wrong with you
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I already said I'll vote whoever you want.
##Vote Bluelightz
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........... but i posted a god damn read you are just obsessing over the very irrelevant detail that i wasn't complying to a seemingly arbitrary request (the underlying purpose of which i assume was merely to get me talking, which i actually did comply to by posting a case on a scum rather than saying "derp he is null/town lawl")
i posted plenty of reads this game but mostly on scummy people, the rest are null to town and completely useless to anybody but scum
and now zeph is on about "y u no vote" again LOL it's OBVIOUS AS FUCK who i want to lynch and i'll vote whenever i feel like it
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I don't like Dirkzor, as well as Zeph, they're a scum team. Ive realised the connection between them (Hopefully). But, right now Zephirdd is more believable as scum, why? if Zeph was a Parity Cop, why in the bloody hell didn't scum kill him? He was only roleblocked (Although I would agree on marv being more useful).
##Vote: Zephirdd
Random ramblings:
We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie.
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Convoluted read:
Hey I prplhz and Keirathi are TOWN!!!!!!
The rest of them are SCUM!!!!!
KEEL THE SCUMMMMMMMM
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On September 12 2012 21:19 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like Dirkzor, as well as Zeph, they're a scum team. Ive realised the connection between them (Hopefully). But, right now Zephirdd is more believable as scum, why? if Zeph was a Parity Cop, why in the bloody hell didn't scum kill him? He was only roleblocked (Although I would agree on marv being more useful).
##Vote: Zephirdd
Random ramblings:
We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie.
roflroflroflroflorlforlforlforlfol
I'll tell you what, for a minute I considered a dirk/prplhz scumteam was possible.
But then bluelightz decided to claim scum by targetting the claimed parity cop with breadcumbs and the claimed roleblocked player when no one claimed boxer(and any boxer claim at this point would be seen with gigantic scrutinity).
Thank bluez, I was freaking out for a moment here. Now I'm comfortable with your lynch more than anything else.
Hey guys, can you call for a 24hr day? I don't think much will change if we have an extra 24 hours at this point.
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oh wait, you targetted dirkzor not keirathi.
whatever
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Well he claimed scum anyway by voting you. You are confirmed by power of no boxer claim.
I PM'd to vote for short days btw
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Rofl, the vote on the confirmed cop? I dont even.......
Okay, I pm'd to vote for shorter day too.
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Shorter Days = less time to discuss = gg
gg scum, you got me I guess :/.
also Dirk your scum just admit it :p
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On September 12 2012 21:41 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 21:19 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like Dirkzor, as well as Zeph, they're a scum team. Ive realised the connection between them (Hopefully). But, right now Zephirdd is more believable as scum, why? if Zeph was a Parity Cop, why in the bloody hell didn't scum kill him? He was only roleblocked (Although I would agree on marv being more useful).
##Vote: Zephirdd
Random ramblings:
We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie. roflroflroflroflorlforlforlforlfol I'll tell you what, for a minute I considered a dirk/prplhz scumteam was possible. But then bluelightz decided to claim scum by targetting the claimed parity cop with breadcumbs and the claimed roleblocked player when no one claimed boxer(and any boxer claim at this point would be seen with gigantic scrutinity). Thank bluez, I was freaking out for a moment here. Now I'm comfortable with your lynch more than anything else. Hey guys, can you call for a 24hr day? I don't think much will change if we have an extra 24 hours at this point.
I can gurantee I'm town. I can't gurantee your scum, and oh, Dirkzor is most likely to be scum imho.
##Unvote ##Vote: Dirkzor
I don't bloody care who you vote Dirk, but your scum .
(And if your town vote Dirk please )
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Just to state the obvious but everything BL saids is bull at this point and mean nothing. He could be calling me scum to make you think I'm not or vice versa.
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I was reading through filters again, and particularly the last day, when this struck me:
On September 12 2012 21:19 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like Dirkzor, as well as Zeph, they're a scum team. Ive realised the connection between them (Hopefully). But, right now Zephirdd is more believable as scum, why? if Zeph was a Parity Cop, why in the bloody hell didn't scum kill him? He was only roleblocked (Although I would agree on marv being more useful).
##Vote: Zephirdd
Random ramblings:
We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie. If BL is town, why would the scum need to last minute vote switch away from him? The game would be over if he was lynched.
So, he proposes an alternative vote to himself. Then if he can convince even one townie that he's not scum, his scum partner can jump in with a last minute switch and win the game himself.
Yea, BL is scum.
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EBWOP: Of course, his vote at the time was on the confirmed cop. He changed it to Dirk later, but the intention is still the same.
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no idea why you think i'm scum when i proposed bluelightz with a serious case before anybody else did
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On September 13 2012 04:06 prplhz wrote: no idea why you think i'm scum when i proposed bluelightz with a serious case before anybody else did Because you weren't actually trying to get him lynched. You posted your case, then basically ignored him and lurked all day.
And here you are trying to buy town cred for your case on BL once he flips scum.
Not buying it.
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EBWOP: In fact, you never even voted him. Yet you acted "upset" that no one else was buying into your case and voting him.
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##Vote Bluelightz
there a vote did that really change anything?
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
There will be no day shortening today. Carry on!
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On September 13 2012 04:06 prplhz wrote: no idea why you think i'm scum when i proposed bluelightz with a serious case before anybody else did
Fuck no
On September 08 2012 12:50 Zephirdd wrote:WHAT read? you're not getting away this game, bluez. First of all, you flipped from "scummy" to "town" on me WAAAAY TOO QUICKLY. Secondly, your filter reeks of nothingness, and your case(read: reason to vote) on Vaderseven is terrible. If you read him as town, you were supposed to defend Risen's ass. If you read him as scum, you were supposed to vote his ass. Instead, you took the middle route.
just because this isn't your average "here is a list of stuff that i think make this person scum" case, does not mean it's not a case.
Your proposed case is even worser:
On September 09 2012 05:29 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:43 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: What do you think about Zeph? I'm not really all that worried about him right now. I'm more worried about Bluelightz. This game he was the only one to go against the Risen lynch (besides Risen himself). The last game I remember Bluelightz going against the "mainstream" lynch was Wheel of Fortune Mafia. In that game Bluelightz made a ton of cases on other people because he thought that zentor was town and that it was a mislynch. Everybody agreed that Bluelightz played really well post game, he even got a mention from Radfield in the Mafia Awards thread. This is how "moved" Bluelightz is from a mislynch that he didn't like this game: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:04 Bluelightz wrote: I'm gonna vote v7, because he's the most scummy candidate I have for now (Between Zeph/Risen who I believe both or townie, or my slight marv read that hinges on who get's killed day 2), and that, he hasn't talked about anything else BUT Risen.
##Vote: vaderseven
(Also, I sadly can't be there for the deadline, unless I wake up early.) Next post after deadline: This doesn't look like the townie Bluelightz at all, it looks like a guy who doesn't give a shit at all and that's very unlike Bluelightz. I don't like Ange777 either, in the filters I read she was posting text wall after text wall exposing scum and apparently also carrying her team to victory. I don't see any of that here. There is prodding and there is poking but there's no whacking with a big stick but I'm less sure about this. Bluelightz is looking really bad.
while I'm pointing out bluelightz's suddenly drop on his scum read with no evidence at all, yours is a case accusing him for the wrong reason. You compare his meta(which is arguably a weak evidence ESPECIALLY for bluelightz) when, in fact, the reason to call him out here is his sudden change in instance without any interaction with v7.
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Alright, I failed you guys, one time.
Not another, and hopefully I'm not losing to Dirk again.
My final read is, Me, prplhz, and Zeph are Town, Dirk and Keirathi are Scum
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Why are Dirk and Keirathi scum?
What are the interaction and reads on each other
Kei -> Dirk = "Completely Null, I'm never gonna get a solid read on him, EVER."(He has been saying Dirk is null to him for two days straight and not even speaking with him besides 1 post which doesn't show alignment I thin).
Dirk -> Kei = 'I actually don't like keirathi all that much either at the moment' and no reasoning, AT ALL.
Why is this lack of interaction scummy? because that they are trying to avoid bringing attention to each other. In the quote I took from Dirkzors post's, he say's he doesn't like Keirathi, but why? He's not saying anything on Keirathi that might lead Keirathi to being lynched.
Why is Zeph town?
Because of the Parity Cop claim and RB.
Why is prplhz town?
Because of his posting, it feels townie because no townie would be like that, EVEN THOUGH, that he didn't vote me while he thought me as his strongest scum read, I think that he's town, and the connection between Keirathi and Dirkzor seem's obvious, to me.
Why am I town?
This may be hard to believe from my posting, but I care about this game. I can't make huge contributions like every other townie, not like a Palmar, or syllogism, but this is my final reads that I've brought to the table, this is what I'm sure off, this is the miracle I believe can happen.
On September 13 2012 03:21 Keirathi wrote:I was reading through filters again, and particularly the last day, when this struck me: Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 21:19 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like Dirkzor, as well as Zeph, they're a scum team. Ive realised the connection between them (Hopefully). But, right now Zephirdd is more believable as scum, why? if Zeph was a Parity Cop, why in the bloody hell didn't scum kill him? He was only roleblocked (Although I would agree on marv being more useful).
##Vote: Zephirdd
Random ramblings:
We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie. If BL is town, why would the scum need to last minute vote switch away from him? The game would be over if he was lynched. So, he proposes an alternative vote to himself. Then if he can convince even one townie that he's not scum, his scum partner can jump in with a last minute switch and win the game himself. Yea, BL is scum.
Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
Also fuck timezones I won't be here for the deadline.
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Yeah I read it. yeah I'm not going to reply. Basicly I'm sad everyone didn't vote for short days and are just waiting for d4.
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On September 14 2012 00:26 Dirkzor wrote: Yeah I read it. yeah I'm not going to reply. Basicly I'm sad everyone didn't vote for short days and are just waiting for d4.
Your sad because I had time to make a defense post and you might lose
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On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner.
And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game.
And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility.
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I beg you guys (not Keirathi and Dirkzor) to read on Keirathi and Dirkzor's filter, if you can see what I see, or at least see from my perspective (I am town, I think zeph n prp is town, rest is scum).
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On September 14 2012 00:32 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner. And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game. And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility. Convoluted logic on my mind, didn't read up on the claim.....
I'm not BoxeR, one of you are. Oh, look, coincidence? Dirkzor and Keirathi being online together ?
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On September 14 2012 00:34 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:32 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner. And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game. And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility. Convoluted logic on my mind, didn't read up on the claim..... I'm not BoxeR, one of you are. Oh, look, coincidence? Dirkzor and Keirathi being online together ?
Eh, oops, I'm not the ROLEBLOCKER.
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"We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit.
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On September 14 2012 00:34 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:32 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner. And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game. And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility. Convoluted logic on my mind, didn't read up on the claim.....I'm not BoxeR, one of you are. Oh, look, coincidence? Dirkzor and Keirathi being online together ? Exactly. Because you haven't cared about this game at all.
And coincidence! You're still defending prplhz!
Where did that read come from? You literally haven't mentioned him this whole game until you said "prplhz looks like a fine lynch target" during the night after people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam. Now you're saying that he's town, with some convoluted logic ("Because of his posting, it feels townie because no townie would be like that, EVEN THOUGH, that he didn't vote me while he thought me as his strongest scum read, I think that he's town").
You're just squirming because you realize you're caught and trying to muddy up the thread.
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On September 14 2012 00:43 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:34 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 00:32 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner. And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game. And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility. Convoluted logic on my mind, didn't read up on the claim.....I'm not BoxeR, one of you are. Oh, look, coincidence? Dirkzor and Keirathi being online together ? Exactly. Because you haven't cared about this game at all. And coincidence! You're still defending prplhz! Where did that read come from? You literally haven't mentioned him this whole game until you said "prplhz looks like a fine lynch target" during the night after people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam. Now you're saying that he's town, with some convoluted logic ("Because of his posting, it feels townie because no townie would be like that, EVEN THOUGH, that he didn't vote me while he thought me as his strongest scum read, I think that he's town"). You're just squirming because you realize you're caught and trying to muddy up the thread.
I'm defending prplhz because I think he is TOWN. I said he was a fine lynch target during the night, okay. I read up more, he's town? suddenly not okay? I'm trying to muddy up the thread? what's the use of that now? Your scum. Your not gonna change your vote, the town aren't even online.
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On September 14 2012 00:39 Bluelightz wrote: "We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit. I think you're misunderstanding me, or maybe blatantly trying to discredit me.
When you made that post, there were 3 people voting for you (Zeph, Me, Dirkzor). You put your vote on Zeph, and made a "case". If you get even one townie to follow your vote onto Zeph, then prplhz swoops in at the last minute with a hammer and you win the game.
Again, if you are a townie, then why would scum need to last minute switch off of you to win the game?. They wouldn't, because they would win the game by lynching you.
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On September 14 2012 00:43 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:34 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 00:32 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:23 Bluelightz wrote: Not everyone voted at the time and your saying that I'm proposing people to vote me?! ME?! a fucking townie?
The only person who hadn't voted at the time when you made that post was prplhz, who I still believe to be your scum partner. And I didn't say you were proposing people to vote for you. You proposed an alternative lynch to yourself, and if you could convince one townie that you weren't lying, then prplhz could hop in with the last second vote and you would win the game. And, you care about the game? You voted for the fucking confirmed cop. Unless you yourself are the cop, or you think that Zeph and I both lied about being roleblocked and you are BoxeR. There's literally no other possibility. Convoluted logic on my mind, didn't read up on the claim.....I'm not BoxeR, one of you are. Oh, look, coincidence? Dirkzor and Keirathi being online together ? Exactly. Because you haven't cared about this game at all. And coincidence! You're still defending prplhz! Where did that read come from? You literally haven't mentioned him this whole game until you said "prplhz looks like a fine lynch target" during the night after people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam. Now you're saying that he's town, with some convoluted logic ("Because of his posting, it feels townie because no townie would be like that, EVEN THOUGH, that he didn't vote me while he thought me as his strongest scum read, I think that he's town"). You're just squirming because you realize you're caught and trying to muddy up the thread.
Your just randomly throwing stuff at me to get the illusion of actually defending and pressuring me, no?
also Dirkzor where are you? You want me to think your town? Then why aren't you here trying to get me lynched? Are you scum just watching from sidelines? You say your town, yet in LYLO you just go away after saying a little bullshit.
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On September 14 2012 00:50 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:39 Bluelightz wrote: "We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit. I think you're misunderstanding me, or maybe blatantly trying to discredit me. When you made that post, there were 3 people voting for you (Zeph, Me, Dirkzor). You put your vote on Zeph, and made a "case". If you get even one townie to follow your vote onto Zeph, then prplhz swoops in at the last minute with a hammer and you win the game. Again, if you are a townie, then why would scum need to last minute switch off of you to win the game?. They wouldn't, because they would win the game by lynching you.
Don't you understand that the warning I said applies to townies? It doesn't apply to you scum.
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Oh, Keirathi, also are you just conjuring up some mystical plan that me and prplhz are actually a scum team? I can see you believe that I and prplhz are scum, I'm not, I have received my PM and assure you I didn't misread it. The reason's that you applied on me (The only reason X has on Y is .......) can apply to you and Dirk, I only see that you have a "bad feeling about him" or something like that, what's that? what's that compared to my only post on prplhz?
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Also Keirathi, what are you doing? Talking with Dirkzor on irc on how to counter my arguments? on making a large defense post? Or just making a plain careful post with no slips?
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Type away Keirathi! Why are you TOWN? Your just countering with hastily prepared arguments and a mythical chance that I and prplhz are infact scum?! Where is your proper defence? being prepared by Dirkzor? Where are you?! The time I have lessens every moment you don't post!
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On September 14 2012 00:53 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:50 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:39 Bluelightz wrote: "We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit. I think you're misunderstanding me, or maybe blatantly trying to discredit me. When you made that post, there were 3 people voting for you (Zeph, Me, Dirkzor). You put your vote on Zeph, and made a "case". If you get even one townie to follow your vote onto Zeph, then prplhz swoops in at the last minute with a hammer and you win the game. Again, if you are a townie, then why would scum need to last minute switch off of you to win the game?. They wouldn't, because they would win the game by lynching you. Don't you understand that the warning I said applies to townies? It doesn't apply to you scum. My point is, if Dirk and I are the scumteam, then we have no reason to pull a last minute vote switch because as long as Zeph is on our side, then we've already won. Literally the only need for scum to ever pull a last minute vote switch onto a random townie at that point would be if you were scum.
Also "funny" how you only decided to start caring about the game when your neck was on the line.
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On September 14 2012 01:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:53 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 00:50 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:39 Bluelightz wrote: "We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit. I think you're misunderstanding me, or maybe blatantly trying to discredit me. When you made that post, there were 3 people voting for you (Zeph, Me, Dirkzor). You put your vote on Zeph, and made a "case". If you get even one townie to follow your vote onto Zeph, then prplhz swoops in at the last minute with a hammer and you win the game. Again, if you are a townie, then why would scum need to last minute switch off of you to win the game?. They wouldn't, because they would win the game by lynching you. Don't you understand that the warning I said applies to townies? It doesn't apply to you scum. My point is, if Dirk and I are the scumteam, then we have no reason to pull a last minute vote switch because as long as Zeph is on our side, then we've already won. Literally the only need for scum to ever pull a last minute vote switch onto a random townie at that point would be if you were scum. Also "funny" how you only decided to start caring about the game when your neck was on the line.
Haha, funny when you decided to care about yourself when your being pressured?
Even if there's no reason, it's still a point to be considered during LYLO, especially considering the numerous games won by last minute vote switches.
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Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far?
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On September 14 2012 01:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:53 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 00:50 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 00:39 Bluelightz wrote: "We shouldn't,we're dead, D E A D dead if scum simply pulls a last minute vote switch on a random townie."
Point out the alternate lynch on MYSELF, I said I thought Zeph n Dirk were scum at the time, I didn't propose a alternate lynch on myself no shit. I think you're misunderstanding me, or maybe blatantly trying to discredit me. When you made that post, there were 3 people voting for you (Zeph, Me, Dirkzor). You put your vote on Zeph, and made a "case". If you get even one townie to follow your vote onto Zeph, then prplhz swoops in at the last minute with a hammer and you win the game. Again, if you are a townie, then why would scum need to last minute switch off of you to win the game?. They wouldn't, because they would win the game by lynching you. Don't you understand that the warning I said applies to townies? It doesn't apply to you scum. My point is, if Dirk and I are the scumteam, then we have no reason to pull a last minute vote switch because as long as Zeph is on our side, then we've already won. Literally the only need for scum to ever pull a last minute vote switch onto a random townie at that point would be if you were scum. Also "funny" how you only decided to start caring about the game when your neck was on the line.
If your, supposedly town, explain your lack of communication with Dirk, and why, I shouldn't consider that as a scummy trait? You've been dodging the arguments I proposed between you and Dirk and just cherry picking the arguments and ignoring the rest~!
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Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam?
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On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far?
I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum.
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On September 14 2012 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam?
You know its impolite to answer a question with a question? answer my fucking question scum. Yeah like prplhz was worth talking about during the time I could post here, people started talking of "Oh let's lynch prplhz" in the what? final hours of Day 2, you know timezones right? How the fuck do I give opinions on prplhz when I'm sleeping in bed? when the deadline is when I wake up? Why do you think I post 12 hours after every deadline?
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On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where?
You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2.
That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line.
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On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line.
Hey I read stuff! clearly I am not allowed to change my opinion after realizing something!
Aaaaaand answer my bloody question scum.
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On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line.
Just 1 hour ago, a little bit on the past few days~
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Hey Dirk!!!!!!! Where are you?! trying to avoid defending your scum mate eh?! Where are you!!!
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On September 14 2012 01:11 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam? You know its impolite to answer a question with a question? answer my fucking question scum. Yeah like prplhz was worth talking about during the time I could post here, people started talking of "Oh let's lynch prplhz" in the what? final hours of Day 2, you know timezones right? How the fuck do I give opinions on prplhz when I'm sleeping in bed? when the deadline is when I wake up? Why do you think I post 12 hours after every deadline? Dirk hasn't done anything impactful in the entire game. I never thought he was scum, and no one ever even talked about him being scum, so there was no reason to talk about him.
The difference is that prplhz HAS been a topic of discussion. Again, you didn't think it important to talk about prplhz during the Risen debacle? You gave Risen a town read because of his case against prplhz and the fallout from it, but didn't think prplhz worth mentioning? I don't understand how you as a townie could possibly have not cared about prplhz at all considering you had a town "read" on Risen.
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On September 14 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:11 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam? You know its impolite to answer a question with a question? answer my fucking question scum. Yeah like prplhz was worth talking about during the time I could post here, people started talking of "Oh let's lynch prplhz" in the what? final hours of Day 2, you know timezones right? How the fuck do I give opinions on prplhz when I'm sleeping in bed? when the deadline is when I wake up? Why do you think I post 12 hours after every deadline? Dirk hasn't done anything impactful in the entire game. I never thought he was scum, and no one ever even talked about him being scum, so there was no reason to talk about him. The difference is that prplhz HAS been a topic of discussion. Again, you didn't think it important to talk about prplhz during the Risen debacle? You gave Risen a town read because of his case against prplhz and the fallout from it, but didn't think prplhz worth mentioning? I don't understand how you as a townie could possibly have not cared about prplhz at all considering you had a town "read" on Risen.
Show me when the topic started.....
"funny" how you gave an opinion on your buddy when your being presssured .
Oh, and OBJECTION1!!!
On September 09 2012 20:48 marvellosity wrote:##Vote: Dirkzorstraight omgus BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived: 1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point
Clearly someone voting Dirkzor = no attention at all!!!!
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On September 14 2012 01:15 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line. Hey I read stuff! clearly I am not allowed to change my opinion after realizing something! Aaaaaand answer my bloody question scum. You didn't even give a reason for your change of "opinion". You used the exact same reasoning to justify vader as a null read AND as a scum read. He literally did nothing else in between, but suddenly you changed "only talked about Risen" from a null tell to a scum one.
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On September 14 2012 01:20 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:15 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line. Hey I read stuff! clearly I am not allowed to change my opinion after realizing something! Aaaaaand answer my bloody question scum. You didn't even give a reason for your change of "opinion". You used the exact same reasoning to justify vader as a null read AND as a scum read. He literally did nothing else in between, but suddenly you changed "only talked about Risen" from a null tell to a scum one.
I'll keep it short n sweet: I'm not gonna vote for my town reads (Hey! Zeph & Risen! kewl). Who should I vote?!!! Read about v7? Hey! I think he looks scummy! I shouldn't vote him because he didn't shit in between my post's! or that it was just too sudden of a change of mind! Here's some proof of why I'm townie, I ain't scared to post whatever. Voting the "confirmed" Parity Cop? Oh that Bluelightz (as a townie) for ya! crazy I know.
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On September 14 2012 01:20 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:11 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam? You know its impolite to answer a question with a question? answer my fucking question scum. Yeah like prplhz was worth talking about during the time I could post here, people started talking of "Oh let's lynch prplhz" in the what? final hours of Day 2, you know timezones right? How the fuck do I give opinions on prplhz when I'm sleeping in bed? when the deadline is when I wake up? Why do you think I post 12 hours after every deadline? Dirk hasn't done anything impactful in the entire game. I never thought he was scum, and no one ever even talked about him being scum, so there was no reason to talk about him. The difference is that prplhz HAS been a topic of discussion. Again, you didn't think it important to talk about prplhz during the Risen debacle? You gave Risen a town read because of his case against prplhz and the fallout from it, but didn't think prplhz worth mentioning? I don't understand how you as a townie could possibly have not cared about prplhz at all considering you had a town "read" on Risen. Show me when the topic started..... "funny" how you gave an opinion on your buddy when your being presssured . Oh, and OBJECTION1!!! Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 20:48 marvellosity wrote:On September 09 2012 20:15 Dirkzor wrote: I'm with BL. Lets lynch Marv =)
##Vote: Dirkzorstraight omgus BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived: 1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point Clearly someone voting Dirkzor = no attention at all!!!! By the time I got back in the thread, that discussion was already over. Dirk said he was trying to bait reactions, but marv answered first, so Dirk pushed a case on Zeph.
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On September 14 2012 01:23 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:20 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:15 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line. Hey I read stuff! clearly I am not allowed to change my opinion after realizing something! Aaaaaand answer my bloody question scum. You didn't even give a reason for your change of "opinion". You used the exact same reasoning to justify vader as a null read AND as a scum read. He literally did nothing else in between, but suddenly you changed "only talked about Risen" from a null tell to a scum one. I'll keep it short n sweet: I'm not gonna vote for my town reads (Hey! Zeph & Risen! kewl). Who should I vote?!!! Read about v7? Hey! I think he looks scummy! I shouldn't vote him because he didn't shit in between my post's! or that it was just too sudden of a change of mind! Here's some proof of why I'm townie, I ain't scared to post whatever. Voting the "confirmed" Parity Cop? Oh that Bluelightz (as a townie) for ya! crazy I know. So your justification on the vote for Zeph is that you are terrible? LOL
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On September 14 2012 01:25 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:20 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:11 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Counter question: why is my small interactions with Dirk scummier than your zero interactions with prplhz until people started calling you+prplhz out as a scumteam? You know its impolite to answer a question with a question? answer my fucking question scum. Yeah like prplhz was worth talking about during the time I could post here, people started talking of "Oh let's lynch prplhz" in the what? final hours of Day 2, you know timezones right? How the fuck do I give opinions on prplhz when I'm sleeping in bed? when the deadline is when I wake up? Why do you think I post 12 hours after every deadline? Dirk hasn't done anything impactful in the entire game. I never thought he was scum, and no one ever even talked about him being scum, so there was no reason to talk about him. The difference is that prplhz HAS been a topic of discussion. Again, you didn't think it important to talk about prplhz during the Risen debacle? You gave Risen a town read because of his case against prplhz and the fallout from it, but didn't think prplhz worth mentioning? I don't understand how you as a townie could possibly have not cared about prplhz at all considering you had a town "read" on Risen. Show me when the topic started..... "funny" how you gave an opinion on your buddy when your being presssured . Oh, and OBJECTION1!!! On September 09 2012 20:48 marvellosity wrote:On September 09 2012 20:15 Dirkzor wrote: I'm with BL. Lets lynch Marv =)
##Vote: Dirkzorstraight omgus BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived: 1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point Clearly someone voting Dirkzor = no attention at all!!!! By the time I got back in the thread, that discussion was already over. Dirk said he was trying to bait reactions, but marv answered first, so Dirk pushed a case on Zeph.
Okay, I understand that, what about my other arguments Keirathi?
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On September 14 2012 01:26 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:23 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:20 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:15 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:13 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 01:09 Bluelightz wrote:On September 14 2012 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Care about myself? I've put a ton of effort into this game, and you haven't cared about it at all. You put a vote on the fucking 100% confirmed cop because why? You were too lazy to actually read or care about what had happened so far? I haven't fucking cared? I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME. Town might lose again, because of me, because of me Town loses, even TheToast once even laughed at me about the so called "Curse of the Bluelightz", this is a demonstration of something I fucking care about, killing scum. What have been I doing all game? trying to find scum. Care you show me where? You called vader null twice, then suddenly (and without any posts from him in between) changed him to a scum read. Which you kept pushing on d2. That's literally the only scum read you've given ALL GAME until now when its LYLO and your neck is on the line. Hey I read stuff! clearly I am not allowed to change my opinion after realizing something! Aaaaaand answer my bloody question scum. You didn't even give a reason for your change of "opinion". You used the exact same reasoning to justify vader as a null read AND as a scum read. He literally did nothing else in between, but suddenly you changed "only talked about Risen" from a null tell to a scum one. I'll keep it short n sweet: I'm not gonna vote for my town reads (Hey! Zeph & Risen! kewl). Who should I vote?!!! Read about v7? Hey! I think he looks scummy! I shouldn't vote him because he didn't shit in between my post's! or that it was just too sudden of a change of mind! Here's some proof of why I'm townie, I ain't scared to post whatever. Voting the "confirmed" Parity Cop? Oh that Bluelightz (as a townie) for ya! crazy I know. So your justification on the vote for Zeph is that you are terrible? LOL
I saw something wrong with him being NOT killed, then I realized marv was far more important (probably according to you n Dirk) so he was the one who got killed.
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One more reason for why I'm town and you should believe me (Lol Dirk you've lynched me once but not again):
Why did Zeph get roleblocked? becasuse, HEY! he's a parity cop! But did scum fear something if they didn't RB Zeph? Oh, probably the fact I was town because Zeph checked me n1, and the result would've interfered with Dirk & Keirathi's lynch of choice )
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Anyways, this whole argument is pointless and I'm just getting frustrated.
Here's my final opinion:
Prior to today, you haven't cared about this game at all, nor done virtually any scumhunting. Suddenly your neck is on the line, and you're super active and wanting to argue, while pushing scumreads on me and Dirk while still defending prplhz.
Nothing you have done this game has been pro-town, and voting for the confirmed cop is just stupidly anti-town. With Zeph as a confirmed townie, I have 3 people to pick a scumteam of two out of. You and prplhz make the most sense, so I'll be sticking with my vote.
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Oh, sleepy time, gotta go to school y'know! It's now up to you Zeph n prplhz to believe me and win the game.
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On September 14 2012 01:32 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, this whole argument is pointless and I'm just getting frustrated.
Here's my final opinion:
Prior to today, you haven't cared about this game at all, nor done virtually any scumhunting. Suddenly your neck is on the line, and you're super active and wanting to argue, while pushing scumreads on me and Dirk while still defending prplhz.
Nothing you have done this game has been pro-town, and voting for the confirmed cop is just stupidly anti-town. With Zeph as a confirmed townie, I have 3 people to pick a scumteam of two out of. You and prplhz make the most sense, so I'll be sticking with my vote. Your scum. I don't care on what you do with your vote Keirathi.
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I've not been lurking if thats what you are insinuating BL. I've been eating and watching an episode of Breaking Bad.
I just don't see a reason to argue with you. The last 2 pages is basicly saying stuff that is clearly not true. You said that you weren't boxer but someone else (me or kier iirc) was boxer. News flash: There is no boxer in this game since hopetorture died and zeph claimed cop. (Yes zeph could be boxer and fake claim but...)
Someone asked me why I was thinking keir was scum and I answered. Go look that up.
The only real matter now is that one of keir or zeph will have to figure out whether I'm the last scum or Prplhz is the last scum after you flip red. So keep calling prplhz town if you think you can confuse them to vote someone else then prplhz.
And yes I lynched you once. It was the best game I've ever played (imho). But this time the roles are reversed. To bad I win again.
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@Zeph:
Just making sure you know this, but nothing that BL said today should have any bearing on our (whichever of us is still alive) decision tomorrow. BL knew he was going to die, so everything he said is a super WIFOM bomb.
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of course, that's pretty much how it works >_>" him going 'dirk is scum keir is town' could be 'dirk is town keir is scum' which in turn would be 'dirk is scum keir is town' which would end up in 'bluelightz' so whatever
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holy shit, just now I read all the debate from bluelightz and keirathi. I didn't realize it!
All this debate... makes my read.... stay the same.
lol keirathi, you must have nothing interesting to do if you wasted so much brain cells arguing like that
a hint, when bluelightz includes too many exclamation marks on his posts, means he is laughing hard outside of his computer.
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yea i'm not really sold on bluelightz being scum
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On September 14 2012 06:59 prplhz wrote: yea i'm not really sold on bluelightz being scum convenient.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
End Game
Artosis continued to sit and wonder what was happening. He could barely understand it. Another casualty to the cheese. The prestigious Round of 5 had been reached, and the cheeser still hadn't been found. So close to the truth, and yet he couldn't find it. He pushed onwards, developing his notes in secret and talking with IMNesTea, whose help had been invaluable in his investigation. John the Translator helped them as he could, though his work necessarily meant he couldn't always be there. Still, with google translate the two progamers could communicate well enough, and they'd narrowed down their list a great deal.
Finally, all the pieces fit. Hours and hours of work. He can't tell NesTea, though. He can't tell anyone-- not with how things were. He has to take action himself. Artosis walks down the hall, searching furtively for a Gom Employee to talk to. Someone, anyone who speaks english. He realized the common factor between all the cheesing incidents. That common factor was John the Translator. The bastard had been cheesing people while helping him and NesTea investigate. They'd trusted him, and in doing so had been burned. Badly. Suddenly, he turns a corner and found himself face-to-face with BitByBitPrime.WE.
"Excuse me", Artosis begins, but suddenly his mouth is full of cheese and grease and oil and he's choking. The cheese is covering him, and he can't move or inhale. He screams, crying for help.
HayprO came running around the corner, and seeing what was happening, leaped into action to help his friend. He was to slow, though, or perhaps BitByBitPrime.WE was just too fast. After a quick exchange of blows, the foreign zerg was knocked flat by the korean terran. As he fell unconscious, he heard laughter. John, IMNesTea, IMMvp were all cheering on his opponent. He left consciousness knowing he was alone, and that he had failed the progamers. The cheesers had won.
GomTV was soon no more. With only cheese to watch, teamliquid.net turned its attention to other tournaments. The Sc2 proscene dried up and was soon pushed out by Farmville, which is now the chief eSport among competitive gamers everywhere. Time passes, and times change. RTS is no longer viable, because all that ever was in the proscene was cheese. Days become weeks, and weeks become years, and the history and mythos of BW and Sc2 fade into legend, and then beyond all written knowledge.
teamliquid.net is the #1 resource and community group for Farmville, and Sc2 is but a faint memory that still glows fondly in some old hearts.
Bluelightz as Liquid`HayprO the Progamer has been eliminated!
Dirkzor as IMMvp the Progamer has been endgamed! Zephirdd as IMNesTea the once and future king has been endgamed!
Keirathi as BitByBitPrime.WE the legend is victorious! prplhz as John the Cheeslator is victorious!
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
gg
thanks to hosts
wp kei, top job
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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GG everyone!
This was my first scum game, and I had a lot of fun.
Some post-game thoughts:
1) I don't think I did anything particularly amazing this game. I just focused on not making any obvious mistakes, and looking better than any potential lynch targets.
2) It was really dumb of me not to notice Zeph's crumb n1. I was talking with marv a bit about it after he died, and I think I realized why I didn't catch it. As weird as it sounds, I literally played this whole game with the mindset that I was town. I scoured filters, checked meta, did whatever I needed to do to make a case. I even caught myself a few times thinking "So, if so-and-so flips scum, I can link him to so-and-so." The good thing (for me), was that playing like that made my meta pretty similar to my town meta, IMO (which could be bad, in hindsight. I might start getting mislynched as town now!).
The side effect to that town mentality, was that when I read Zeph's crumb post, I had the exact same reaction that Ange had: I marked it down as something scummy that I could use to pressure him. I spent more time reading posts from the context of "What's scummy about this?" than I did from the mindset of "Why would a townie say that?". I did specifically go back and look through all the night posts for a medic crumb, but Zeph's post still didn't stick out. Really bad of me, but thankfully it didn't come back to bite me in the ass.
3) Not RB'ing anyone n1 was extremely risky, and probably a bad decision 9 times out of 10. But I didn't have any blue reads, and I still thought of everyone alive as lynch bait and didn't want to give them even the smallest amount of town cred with a claim that they were RB'd.
4) RB claim might buy someone BotD for a day, but when it's LYLO you really need to go back and evaluate if they were lying about it. But by that point, I already had enough town cred and influence built up, that Zeph (and marv, FWIW) came to the conclusion that I wasn't lying.
5) Something I'm mildly suprised no one picked up on: I called Risen out day 1 for having 6 people (out of 8) as part of his "Lynch order list". Except, during N1, I made a case on 3 people (prplhz, Zeph, and vader), and had pressure posts against marv and BL, too. So, I had varying degrees of cases on 5 out of the 7 people who were alive besides me.
6) Risen: any copying of your opinions was honestly entirely unintentional
7) vader being medic was extremely unfortunate for you guys. Basically the whole setup revolved around the medic If vader hadn't been the medic, or marv (who I was still planning to shoot n2), me and prplhz would have been in a pickle. I was honestly worried we were going to lose the game up until vader claimed medic.
Oh, and:
On September 12 2012 06:31 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor, I too have. On this kind of setup, using a roleblock on a town player will not only confirm the setup for players but also make that player look good.
However, Keirathi would deserve a mafia player of the century if his play so far was made from a scum perspective in my opinion. He's been constructive, he's been making ton of sense, and he's been showing a lot of stuff other town players don't realize. Hell, I'd argue I would have been roleblocked if he was scum, because he noticed my breadcumb really early.
Besides, it's not hard to imagine that he would be a blue if you think of his day 1 play. I had a green read on him at least, and instantly thought he was telling the truth when claiming RB.
That made me chuckle. Thanks <3
GG again, and look forward to playing with you guys more!
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Oh, BH, What the heck? I was BitByBit, not prplhz!
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
whatever all you cheesers look the same to me
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Host Notes
Setup: Type A (1 goon, 1 rb + 1 parity cop, 1 doctor + 5 townies) Randomized roles: goon: 9 (prplhz) rb: 3 (keirathi) parity cop: 2 (zephirdd) Doctor: 1 (vaderseven)
Setup summary: vaderseven: HopeTorture (Doc) Zephirdd: NesTea (Parity Cop) Keirathi: BitByBitPrime.WE (Mafia RB) Risen: Progamer (VT) Bluelightz: Progamer (VT) Ange777: Progamer (VT) Marvellosity: Progamer (VT) Dirkzor: Progamer (VT) prplhz: Cheeser (Mafia Goon)
Host Note: I'm sad we didn't roll a setup with a BoxeR in it, but that's just how it goes. The possibility of BoxeRs should still have an impact on the game, and scum tactics at the start at least.
Day 1
Note: Keirathi seemed very eager to get started. At this moment, scum know the setup is either A (Doc, Cop) or B (2x BoxeR) and town knows nothing. I wonder how the possible presence of the BoxeRs will affect the D1 discussions?
Also, it seems like a pretty solid game. I really like the lineup. Some new players, like Keirathi and Ange777, who both played well in NMMXXII, and some older players like vaderseven and marvellosity who can be dangerous as both scum and town.
Ordinarily I'd be worried about a doc/cop setup in a 9-player mini but with the nerfed cop role (requires scumhunting to work) and the non-conseq doc I am less worried. Mafia also has an RB so even if it's a bit town-favored hopefully it's not too much.
Risen is so right on the money with his case against prplhz it's kinda preposterous. If I were in the game with him I wouldn't believe him, but from out here it's kinda amazing he caught scum when literally like 2 people had posted. Still, there's no way to know how sure he is. His argument is very flimsy, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. Marv seems to be of this opinion.
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As an aside, I really hope that Keirathi miraculously pulls of a scum win if prplhz is lynched. A D1 lynch for town with a doctor AND a cop alive is spectacularly powerful. Luckily for him, Keirathi has 2 nights to find the cop since he's a parity cop, but even if everything goes perfectly, he needs to secure two mislynches just to get to LYLO.
;_; you can do it buddy
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interestingly, Risen is right on the money with his thoughts on Keirathi and prplhz. If he can keep on prodding them and getting responses eventually the others should get on board, but Keirathi is doing good job of making him look bad/worse first.
Things are looking better for scum overall.
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It's interesting that there are several players who are right on the money (and Ange777 seems to have collected several important clues and tells from what she's written in-thread) about the scum, but nobody is sure yet. I don't think prplhz has actually slipped that badly other than being unhelpful in a relatively quite game, but Keirathi has tipped his hand a bit. 7/2 is a tough setup for scum since town gets 2 mislynches, and scum got unlucky and rolled the doc/cop setup (though they don't know that yet). I'm glad both of the blue roles are nerfed in this game, but even so a D1 scumlynch makes it really really hard for the last scum to win.
It seems certain that with just a bit of leadership from Marv or Ange777 this will turn into a landslide for town.
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Co-Host Note: Risen sticking to his guns like this is the absolute best thing that can happen for the town right now. Regardless of who ends up lynched, most of the day1 discussion will be surrounding them. Scum are being forced to take positions early instead of settling in to a safe routine. If Risen is allowed to live through to day2 things will only become more dire for the scumteam. But getting rid of him isn't the answer either. If Marv or Ange777 are left alive too long they will put it together as well, Bluelightz is also a threat if left too long. I think the blue roles are in competent hands, which is 1 more thing that takes time away from scum. Town is filled with threats, blues are set to do work, and the town's discussion (whether or not they go the right direction with it) is taking place exactly where it needs to. Around Risen/prplhz/Keir. I will be amazed if scum can pull this one off (Marv would have to drag the town kicking and screaming away from the right path).
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Town is still suffering from activity problems, and at the same time still hasn't formed a majority (though Risen is one vote away from it). With only 6 hours left in the day, this is a dangerous situation for town. Whether Risen is town OR scum, it's important that he flip today. If he doesn't flip, prplhz and Keirathi sure as hell aren't gonna shoot him, and town is in the same place tomorrow. If he DOES flip, prplhz is in hot water, though Keirathi is doing okay.
More than anything, the lack of a legitimate counter-wagon means there's almost no way in the next 6 hours anyone but Risen is getting lynched. The best scenario for scum here is a no-lynch.
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Judging by Dirkzor's post here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=18#359 I think he suspects that Risen is town. With less than 4 hours in the day and most of town AFK, though, there's not much that can be done about the situation. And he's right, too-- a Risen flip will still tell town info. Maybe he's afraid of a no-lynch, or maybe he geniunely thinks Risen is scum. Stuff like hopping onto and pressuing lots of people is not a scumtell though-- or at least I have trouble distinguishing this sort of play from town play.
I wonder what Dirkzor is thinking right now.
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Interestingly, as Risen has gotten more emotionally involved in the mislynch that's happening to him, he's diverged from his initial, correct scumreads (prplhz and keirathi) into a ball of OMGUS and anger. I think due to, in part, a less-than-fully-critical town and a savvy play by Keirathi in attacking prplhz (though Risen spotted this), Risen got thrown off track. It's not easy to stick to your guns when the pressure is on, so I don't blame him, but his mislynch could have won the game for town. Scum's still not in a great place but contrasting the possible d1 prplhz lynch, this is a much better outcome. Their plan to discredit and shoot Ange777 isn't perfect, but given that the blues are playing it close-to-the-chest this game, it's fine. The best scum can do is to shoot the strongest scumhunter. Especially given how hard Risen has been chainsawing Marv, shooting Ange is probably wise.
<><><>NIGHT 1 START<><><>
The mislynch D1 was bad, especially because Risen diverged from his scumreads and there were no real counter-wagons. Town is in quite the bad situation as a result.
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Thrawn in Obs QT: I do think it's likely that a lot of people voted for you not because they had a super-strong scum read, but because the momentum was pretty much only going against you and not against anyone else.
I think this is pretty important. About halfway through the day the vote was 4 on Risen, 1 on prplhz, 1 on Keirathi. When there were 7 hours left the vote was 4 Risen, 1 prplhz, 1 Keirathi, 1 Zephirdd.
With the town that split and with no major counter-wagon, it would have been tough to get someone else lynched. Lots of people hadn't voted, and nobody who thought Risen was town agreed on who scum was
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Even though most people have V7 on their scum list, it's worth noting he correctly identified and protected the cop N1. It's not easy to do that.
Of course, it's not super relevant since scum is taking out Ange, but so it goes.
<><><>Day 2<><><>
D2 note: town activity down = scum winrate up
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Well, that's kind of what I expected given the activity D2. Scum is able to keep their heads down, and even though Marv backed off from his spat with Zephirdd, the claim means there won't be any results for LYLO. With Ange777 dead things are looking grim for town.
Such a quiet D2 means a bad lurker lynch is a natural result. Zephirdd comes very close to the truth here, though:
>The thing is, these timings feel too wrong because Ange777 was killed that night. to me, it feels like you tried to make bluelightz say something bad about ange777 before flipping her, and use that information to lynch bluelightz tonight. You chose bluelightz for that because I had just made a case on him earlier, and your case was even worse. Furthermore, you came in today and didn't vote the one who you said to be your top scum read, all while being AWOL during my and marvellosity's exchange.
I think town has the pieces necessary for a victory, but they're uncohesive and not talking/working together enough to develop their reads. How much has Keirathi or prplhz really seen in terms of pressure other than the start of D1 when Risen was onto them? These guys haven't been given a chance to slip up because nobody's really talking about them extensively. I guess prplhz is under a bit more pressure but it's not aggressive or real, not with the V7 lynch locked in.
<><><>Night 2/Day3 Start<><><>
Dirkzor provides a bit of hope for a town victory. Analysis like this on a player who'll be alive tomorrow reduces the number of possible scum mislynches. Since scum is shooting Marv (rightly), D3 will be BL, Zeph, Dirk, Kei, Prplhz. BL seems like an obvious mislynch choice but he's playing his town meta-- it's just a scummy town meta. Without Marv around to figure things out, we're relying on Dirk's knowledge of BL's Meta (from idiot cop mafia among others) to realize he's town.
Town is likely not to win. Good nightkills by scum, lack of cohesion, co-operation, and activity by town all contribute to this.
Some final thoughts:
Risen you were on the right track but really started flailing under pressure from scum and a misguided townie or two. You lost track of your reads and ended up accusing everyone. Your mislynch might have won the game but instead it contributed very little.
vaderseven, getting mislynched like that was horrible. ;_;
Bluelightz, your reads were meh but your effort was really quite low. Not realizing Zeph's claim was solid was bad. Honestly though you might want to refine your town play a bit, since despite the fact that you always play the same as town people mislynch you for it anyways.
Kei: good play. looked town, shot good scumhunters. Prplhz you probably should have gotten lynched.
Zephir and Dirk both of you should have known how Bluelightz is. Props to Zeph for backing off of Marv after being forced to claim though.
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i wish we'd lynched BL for info on day 2 as much as anything else
i didn't think Dirk was scum unless BL was scum, so we'd have lynched prplhz day 3 and then at least Kei would have been on the cards
being away for 3-4 hours prior to both lynches sucked balls
edit: also cohosting on a different account you're playing a game in sucks balls ;p
anyway, mainly Kei played superwell, and I think even if vader had been around and claimed an hour earlier town would have been in a much better spot, but meh.
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Blazinghand wrote: It seems certain that with just a bit of leadership from Marv or Ange777 this will turn into a landslide for town.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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DYH's Fantastic Minigame of Awesomeness Final Update! (Endgame)
- Shiaopi's ---- Score: -6 - HiroPro's ---- Score: -3 (failed all-in, correct on BL lynch) - talismania's ---- Score: 14 - Halapauli's ---- Score: 9 - Risen's ---- Score: 6 (failed all-in, correct on BL lynch, had prplhz on scumlist) - Ange777's ---- Score: 1
Talismania is our winner! And, after recognizing that he is by far the best reader and anticipator of this game, I have come to realize something about him. Talismania, you have more cunning in you than MacGyver's mullet. Congratulations!
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Oh yea, thanks BH and DYH for hosting!
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lol funny that I won the betgame when I had the complete wrong scumteam all game haha. vader just sucked me in so much. Good to learn some things about dirk's play though, as well as keir's. Risen was obviously town, bluelightz made the most sense as town as well but that was tricky to see. Marv and zeph had moments where I doubted them but were still town.
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oh fuck
GG keirathi
and bluelightz, be more active in the future. Seriously. If you have a read, fucking push it. If you think someone is town, post.
Also
THE ZEPHIRDD RULE IS FUCKING TRUE
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On September 14 2012 09:00 Zephirdd wrote: THE ZEPHIRDD RULE IS FUCKING TRUE Rofl
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ugh I should have picked bluelightz was town, but for some reason keirathi didn't make sense to be scum.
except that claiming to be roleblocked is like THE move for a scum team to make on this setup. I'm a moron lol
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On September 14 2012 07:15 Keirathi wrote:GG everyone! This was my first scum game, and I had a lot of fun. Some post-game thoughts: 1) I don't think I did anything particularly amazing this game. I just focused on not making any obvious mistakes, and looking better than any potential lynch targets. 2) It was really dumb of me not to notice Zeph's crumb n1. I was talking with marv a bit about it after he died, and I think I realized why I didn't catch it. As weird as it sounds, I literally played this whole game with the mindset that I was town. I scoured filters, checked meta, did whatever I needed to do to make a case. I even caught myself a few times thinking "So, if so-and-so flips scum, I can link him to so-and-so." The good thing (for me), was that playing like that made my meta pretty similar to my town meta, IMO (which could be bad, in hindsight. I might start getting mislynched as town now!). The side effect to that town mentality, was that when I read Zeph's crumb post, I had the exact same reaction that Ange had: I marked it down as something scummy that I could use to pressure him. I spent more time reading posts from the context of "What's scummy about this?" than I did from the mindset of "Why would a townie say that?". I did specifically go back and look through all the night posts for a medic crumb, but Zeph's post still didn't stick out. Really bad of me, but thankfully it didn't come back to bite me in the ass. + Show Spoiler +3) Not RB'ing anyone n1 was extremely risky, and probably a bad decision 9 times out of 10. But I didn't have any blue reads, and I still thought of everyone alive as lynch bait and didn't want to give them even the smallest amount of town cred with a claim that they were RB'd. 4) RB claim might buy someone BotD for a day, but when it's LYLO you really need to go back and evaluate if they were lying about it. But by that point, I already had enough town cred and influence built up, that Zeph (and marv, FWIW) came to the conclusion that I wasn't lying. 5) Something I'm mildly suprised no one picked up on: I called Risen out day 1 for having 6 people (out of 8) as part of his "Lynch order list". Except, during N1, I made a case on 3 people (prplhz, Zeph, and vader), and had pressure posts against marv and BL, too. So, I had varying degrees of cases on 5 out of the 7 people who were alive besides me. 6) Risen: any copying of your opinions was honestly entirely unintentional 7) vader being medic was extremely unfortunate for you guys. Basically the whole setup revolved around the medic If vader hadn't been the medic, or marv (who I was still planning to shoot n2), me and prplhz would have been in a pickle. I was honestly worried we were going to lose the game up until vader claimed medic. Oh, and: On September 12 2012 06:31 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor, I too have. On this kind of setup, using a roleblock on a town player will not only confirm the setup for players but also make that player look good.
However, Keirathi would deserve a mafia player of the century if his play so far was made from a scum perspective in my opinion. He's been constructive, he's been making ton of sense, and he's been showing a lot of stuff other town players don't realize. Hell, I'd argue I would have been roleblocked if he was scum, because he noticed my breadcumb really early.
Besides, it's not hard to imagine that he would be a blue if you think of his day 1 play. I had a green read on him at least, and instantly thought he was telling the truth when claiming RB. That made me chuckle. Thanks <3 GG again, and look forward to playing with you guys more! I always try that as scum (and sometimes also think that way about flips). It's a lot harder than it looks. I didn't read the game, but seems like you aced it. Good job!
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On September 14 2012 09:05 Zephirdd wrote: ugh I should have picked bluelightz was town, but for some reason keirathi didn't make sense to be scum.
except that claiming to be roleblocked is like THE move for a scum team to make on this setup. I'm a moron lol Meh, you played fine. You only claimed when you had to, and had a credible crumb to back it up.
Literally no one pegged me for scum. Not in the game, nor in Obs QT.
(Well, BL was right at the end, but for terrible reasons. The only reason I was scum to him was an associative tell with a townie. Flip Dirk, and he had no case against me at all.)
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but seriously now, the zephirdd rule(previously known as "Kenpachi rule extended") is not bullshit at all. Scum are eager to be productive and they always pick up on something that should never be a scum tell. God damnit I was so fucking right on the spot.
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Fuck town. Fuck all of you.
Edit: This isn't meant to be taken in a "you're horrible players" way. (You are)
This should be taken in a "why the fuck sign up for a mafia game and then go unactive" way.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 14 2012 10:08 Risen wrote: Fuck town. Fuck all of you.
<3
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yo risen, I'm so so so sorry
The post where you answered my question was legit, but I had little time to analyze it at the time. When I read back I realized you were answering stuff correctly. I shouldn't have lynched you ever ever ever sry TT
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Don't even get me started on how everyone in this game has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old.
Keir you're awesome man.
Edit: I'd like to add that my scum reads diverged towards the end b/c townies were just that bad.
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On September 14 2012 10:48 Risen wrote: Don't even get me started on how everyone in this game has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old.
Keir you're awesome man. Haha, wait. Are you saying that I have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old, or that I am awesome? Or maybe an awesome 2 year old!?
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On September 14 2012 10:55 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 10:48 Risen wrote: Don't even get me started on how everyone in this game has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old.
Keir you're awesome man. Haha, wait. Are you saying that I have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old, or that I am awesome? Or maybe an awesome 2 year old!?
No, town has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. You are just awesome for how you played this game. You took advantage of a stupid town by claiming you were RB'd, and while to any competent town in this setup it wouldn't be alignment indicative, it somehow confirmed you as town. On top of this you were the most active/useful person in the game after me, and if scum is posting more usefully than town, something is wrong. For some reason lynching the most active player seemed like a good idea to town, but then lynching the second most active didn't.
I really thought it was you/prpl early on, but then v7 and dirk pulled their inane nonsense and I got all fucked up in the head. Add onto this Zeph with the question that somehow made me scum even though I answered it perfectly fine?
This game came down to town being at the level of a trash can, prpl being about equally as bad, and you doing very well. I'd like to see you as scum against some semi-competent townies, I think you'd still do just as well as you did this game.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Risen, stop being a tedious dickhead
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Keep it civil, everyone. If we have criticisms of each other's play, or of each other's criticisms, let's keep it clean. If you want people to listen to you you need to be friendly, or else they'll just shut out your comments.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
that was the clean version
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
I'm also addressing Risen.
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Thanks <3 I think maybe in a game with an overall better played town, I might have been in a bind. BH's notes were right, if just a few things went a little bit differently, this would have been a really hard game to win. I think one thing that helped me not be obvious, though, is that I'm already always careful about what I say, even as a townie. I've never been one to fly by the seat of my pants and say the first thing that comes to my mind. I always filter my words so that I try to come off as townie, because as a town I don't want to give scum ammunition to lynch me with (or town to confuse me for scum ), which I think is a big reason that I've never been lynched. Granted, I've only played 6 games so far, but still unlynched up to this point.
I don't think the RB itself confirmed me as town, but when you add in that I was being active and "useful", people just started believing that there was very little chance I was lying. Especially after Dirk? Zeph? said he wouldn't be suprised if it was an attempt to actually hit a blue after my day 1 play.
Also, I would have made my case against you regardless of alignment (sorry!). As a town, that one post about the bussing and convoluted logic would have set my scum senses tingling. Like I said, I was reading each post with my townie mentality. The key difference is that as a townie, I would have realized you were town by the endof the day. Everything you said in the last 6 hours or so before the lynch just screamed townie, IMO.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
yes, him tunnelling me over and over was super townie.
that's what prevented me unvoting him at any rate.
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Why would scum have been tunneling you so hard if he was about to be flipped? Like, what purpose does it serve towards keeping his teammate alive and able to win the game?
The most likely explanation is that he's a super paranoid townie.
E: Unless you were his teamate. Then it could have been a brilliant play
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
what purpose does causing massive distraction on a prominent townie serve?
let me think
is he bussing me? or am I town? shitting things up is totally a mafia motive
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On September 14 2012 11:14 marvellosity wrote: that was the clean version
What are your thoughts on the people in this game? Activity levels are always a constant harping of mine, and there was a horrible mislynch d2 b/c of it (hilarious to me, but I mean I would have lynched him too without his claim due to activity/promises of it that weren't delivered/his d1 stuff), but anything else?
I just think there's a serious problem with how towns on TL play. It's like half the people try to play as scummy as possible. Is this b/c they don't want to be night killed? The point is to win, not to live until the end of the game. It makes being scum extremely fun, though. I haven't lost as scum yet, because it's so easy to take advantage of. Marv hasn't lost as scum, either! Town didn't even manage to win Death Note mafia, which was one of the most town stacked games I think I've ever seen rofl.
Is that what hosts are going to be forced to do to give town a fighting chance on TL? Should hosts start purposefully balancing around bad towns? I think this is a real issue. I think this setup was really well balanced. Three town mislynches and two night kills with only two scum should result in a scum victory, and it did. However, with what I've seen since I started playing mafia, scum wins a lot. A LOT. To me this says imbalanced setups favoring scum, or bad towns. Looking at the setups and I think they're more often town favored than scum favored, so....
Or maybe it's confirmation bias. If so let me know.
On September 14 2012 11:15 Blazinghand wrote: I'm also addressing Risen.
Got it.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
This game was actually quite close despite the final result, imo.
If you're a townie getting lynched Day 1, you have to look at yourself and not just look at the town voting you, whether they are being bad or not.
Otherwise the whole vader issue was just quite unfortunate.
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Also, I counted on marv to keep shooting down my prplhz lynches. <3
Oh, and your reaction fishing didn't work because I knew what reaction you were expecting. It might have worked if you hadn't made the same argument in Not Themed and Dwarfs, though
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On September 14 2012 11:27 marvellosity wrote: This game was actually quite close despite the final result, imo.
If you're a townie getting lynched Day 1, you have to look at yourself and not just look at the town voting you, whether they are being bad or not.
Otherwise the whole vader issue was just quite unfortunate.
I think it says more about how townies sheeped someone b/c they're lazy just to get a lynch than anything else.
Edit: I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again.
Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed scum b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory.
It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
There's a reason some people almost never get lynched, Risen. And it's not just because they luck out with getting towns not voting for them.
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Oh, and I was totally planning on bussing prplhz day3.
On September 11 2012 07:06 Keirathi wrote: Yea, I'm really liking the prplhz lynch now. I gave him the BotD because marv seemed convinced that he was too active and interested to be scum, and the other cases today had merit as well. How long before we stop giving his terrible play the BotD and hold him accountable for the scummy shit he's done? I don't think my chances of winning were any less after the medic was dead, and the cop was outed, in 2-1 LYLO compared to 3-2. But someone shot me down again, and proposed lynched BL instead, so I rolled with it.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
well whatever Kei. prplhz outed himself as scum towards the end of the 2nd cycle, and if not for the unfortunate vader stuff town could have lynched him day 3 and still had a chance.
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On September 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote: There's a reason some people almost never get lynched, Risen. And it's not just because they luck out with getting towns not voting for them.
You're right. If I just lurk like everyone else from now on I won't get lynched. But that's not how a townie should play, is it.
I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again.
Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed town b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory.
It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion.
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Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though.
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On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though.
You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched.
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On September 14 2012 11:43 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though. You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. No. No, no, no.
There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
It might not have been close, but it was very "swingy" because of the lines that were drawn
Part of the issue is that, imagine prplhz flipped D1: Kei would almost certainly be lynched in the following days because of his reaction to prplhz/risen. Right up until about 6 hours from the end of D1 I thought town was going to have an overwhelming victory.
After the unfocused risen lynch (which generated less info due to the confusion in the second half of D1 than it should have), D2 was lurky and dominated by a V7 lynch that was a result of a player going inactive. I don't consider the V7 lynch to be town's fault really.
D3 the Bluelightz lynch was a natural progression after almost no progress was made D1+2. The players most familiar with his meta were dead, and Dirk never spoke up to really defend him. Prplhz was on many players' scumlists, and if he flipped Kei would be more susceptible to being found out.
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On September 14 2012 11:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:43 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though. You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. No. No, no, no. There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3.
That's very WIFOM.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:41 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote: There's a reason some people almost never get lynched, Risen. And it's not just because they luck out with getting towns not voting for them. You're right. If I just lurk like everyone else from now on I won't get lynched. But that's not how a townie should play, is it. I also disagree that the final result was close at all. Let's say BL doesn't derp his way to voting the cop claim (which should have screamed townie, b/c what scum wouldn't pay attention to the game like that). Let's then say prpl gets lynched. Next up on the block, in my opinion, is dirk, since it's just keir and zeph at that point and zeph is getting RB'd the next night. In Zeph's mind Keir has been RB'd, he himself has been RB'd... who hasn't been RB'd..... Dirk! Lynch Dirk. Scum victory again. Ok so let's say v7 manages to not afk through the entire game and he doesn't get lynched. Who's next on the chopping block there? In my mind, it's a prpl, Dirk, or BL lynch. Both prpl and Dirk have played more scummily, but BL has also been lurky/bad. I don't have faith that people see prpl has only been defending himself and hasn't actually done any logical pushing on anyone, so we have a decision between a lurker and Dirk. Prp gets lynched the next day, and Keir is still coming out on top here, in my opinion, because they don't kill you n2, instead they kill v7 b/c he has claimed doctor with plenty of time to avert catastrophe. Endgame comes down to marv/zeph/keir. Marv now knows keir is scum, but how does he prove this? Keir has been pro-town all game, he claims he was RB'd, zeph knows he was RB'd, in his mind keir is almost confirmed town b/c no scum would "RB" himself, scum victory. It all comes down to the play of town d1. Not even the lynching the only person who kept discussion going part. The lynch on me was fine if townies hadn't played in such a scummy manner, and that's the problem, in my opinion.
I thought Dirk played just fine. Even if BL got lynched day 2, then Dirk was looking quite decent to me. prplhz would definitely die day 3, and then it's between Kei and Dirk. Obviously Kei has the edge there, but for example after BL flips town day 2, I'm looking at prplhz + someone else, and I don't know who that someone else is. It's either Dirk or Kei, and with townreads on both they both have to be looked at. So it was all still quite possible, and that's without a prplhz lynch day 2 which might have been possible too.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 14 2012 11:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:45 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 11:43 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though. You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. No. No, no, no. There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3. That's very WIFOM.
it's not just WIFOM. I won my newbie game (as town) by "wifoming" over night kills, and the thing was the argument was totally compelling. Night kill shit isn't just wifom.
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But it's the truth. The status quo was that one of the two of us would be killed. Zeph because he was confirmed, or me because everyone had a town read on me and was extremely active. Both of us living through the night would have immediately sent up red flags, IMO.
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On September 14 2012 11:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:48 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 11:45 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 11:43 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote: Maybe. I still think I would have been in a pretty good spot with Me vs Dirk+BL, though. You would have won easily b/c you don't kill Zeph who you're near confirmed status with. Assuming that you kill Zeph, though, I think you still have a fair shot at getting BL lynched. No. No, no, no. There's absolutely no way I could leave Zeph alive, and kill Dirkzor. Zeph might have been mildly suprised that marv died instead of me on n2, but there's no way he believes scum kills Dirkzor over me on night 3. That's very WIFOM. it's not just WIFOM. I won my newbie game (as town) by "wifoming" over night kills, and the thing was the argument was totally compelling. Night kill shit isn't just wifom.
You're right. Night kills usually wouldn't be WIFOM in my mind, unless it left only 3 people alive with one person confirmed town.
On September 14 2012 11:51 Keirathi wrote: But it's the truth. The status quo was that one of the two of us would be killed. Zeph because he was confirmed, or me because everyone had a town read on me and was extremely active. Both of us living through the night would have immediately sent up red flags, IMO.
See above.
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Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted.
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On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted.
From Zeph's perspective: BL can't let any check go through b/c he knows it will return opposite to me. So now he has to RB me from now on. BL gets lynched. Well I had to RBd every night just in case I checked the person who happened to be scum.
How is this telling about you at all?
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On September 14 2012 11:01 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 10:55 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 10:48 Risen wrote: Don't even get me started on how everyone in this game has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old.
Keir you're awesome man. Haha, wait. Are you saying that I have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old, or that I am awesome? Or maybe an awesome 2 year old!? No, town has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. You are just awesome for how you played this game. You took advantage of a stupid town by claiming you were RB'd, and while to any competent town in this setup it wouldn't be alignment indicative, it somehow confirmed you as town. On top of this you were the most active/useful person in the game after me, and if scum is posting more usefully than town, something is wrong. For some reason lynching the most active player seemed like a good idea to town, but then lynching the second most active didn't. I really thought it was you/prpl early on, but then v7 and dirk pulled their inane nonsense and I got all fucked up in the head. Add onto this Zeph with the question that somehow made me scum even though I answered it perfectly fine? This game came down to town being at the level of a trash can, prpl being about equally as bad, and you doing very well. I'd like to see you as scum against some semi-competent townies, I think you'd still do just as well as you did this game.
hold on now. I apologized and all but
From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
Is not a fucking good answer. It's terrible. When you are telling something chronologically, you are supposed to create a list of things and order by time of occurrence. You just mentioned that you never thought the guy was scum and even then he was the scummiest guy in the thread.
I don't even know why I apologized. I remember reading this partially and you saying "but I answered chronologically" and me thinking "oh maybe he did". Fuck no, you talked about your first post and threw some suspicion to my post.
If I ended up having more time during the last 24 hours, I'd probably pick someone else to lynch(or try), but you can't say you played this perfectly.
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Lol. Two things (note, I still haven't read this game, just enjoying the discussion afterwards). Risen, I have been in 2 games with you in which you were prime lynch candidate. In both games I was scum and in both games I was scum and it was very easy to push a mislynch on you (GoT and SSMB mafia for the record). Given your reaction here, it happened again. When that happens once you might call it coincidence or "bad town", but when it happens 3 times you have to start thinking about your playstyle and what you can change (and also whether you want to... ) to not get mislynched.
Secondly, nightkills are often a lot of WIFOM, but sometimes it is just plainly suspicious if someone is left alive. There are some players who, if they live past N2 are almost certainly scum. There is nothing much wifom there, because they are simply too dangerous for scum to leave alive, so if they're alive past time X (without a damned good reason... and sometimes even with it), they are scum.
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On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted.
I actually checked prplhz night 2. No reason to not roleblock me though.
I should have realized you were scum when you didn't die. marv wasn't confirmed at all, why the fuck would someone who is supposedly confirmed survive over him? That thought went through my head, and I washed it with "that's just scum trying to mess with me".
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I meant I had the wild idea to let Zeph's check go through night 2 only, then kill him night 3 if somehow there was a night 3.
That would have given Zeph a parity difference between me and BL in LYLO.
Obviously, Zeph was 100% expected to either be blocked or killed. If neither happened, he would wonder why the scum let the check go through.
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On September 14 2012 12:07 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. I actually checked prplhz night 2. No reason to not roleblock me though. I should have realized you were scum when you didn't die. marv wasn't confirmed at all, why the fuck would someone who is supposedly confirmed survive over him? That thought went through my head, and I washed it with "that's just scum trying to mess with me". If you tried to use that as an argument against me, I would have been able to shut it down I think. Who would the mafia rather fight against in a LYLO situation: a well respected scumhunter with generally strong town play and really good arguer, or me, a relative newbie?
And also, I was in no way confirmed. People kept acting like I was, for some reason, but it was just a RB claim on night 1. That maybe could have bought me BotD for a day, but in LYLO it should have been treated as basically never happening.
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On September 14 2012 12:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:07 Zephirdd wrote:On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. I actually checked prplhz night 2. No reason to not roleblock me though. I should have realized you were scum when you didn't die. marv wasn't confirmed at all, why the fuck would someone who is supposedly confirmed survive over him? That thought went through my head, and I washed it with "that's just scum trying to mess with me". If you tried to use that as an argument against me, I would have been able to shut it down I think. Who would the mafia rather fight against in a LYLO situation: a well respected scumhunter with generally strong town play and really good arguer, or me, a relative newbie?
I don't know how that would go, but as much as marv is a respected scum hunter, he is no where near the worth of a confirmed townie when the confirmed cop was paranoid of him earlier and he's known for also being pretty good as scum.
soo yeah, I should've thought that through
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On September 14 2012 12:13 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:10 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 12:07 Zephirdd wrote:On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. I actually checked prplhz night 2. No reason to not roleblock me though. I should have realized you were scum when you didn't die. marv wasn't confirmed at all, why the fuck would someone who is supposedly confirmed survive over him? That thought went through my head, and I washed it with "that's just scum trying to mess with me". If you tried to use that as an argument against me, I would have been able to shut it down I think. Who would the mafia rather fight against in a LYLO situation: a well respected scumhunter with generally strong town play and really good arguer, or me, a relative newbie? I don't know how that would go, but as much as marv is a respected scum hunter, he is no where near the worth of a confirmed townie when the confirmed cop was paranoid of him earlier and he's known for also being pretty good as scum. soo yeah, I should've thought that through I think you would have a hard time finding any scum team in the last 2-3 months that would have wanted to leave marv alive any longer than was absolutely necessary He basically destroyed the scum team in Mad Men, lol.
The only reason he didn't die night 1 was because I expected him to be protected, and I still think he would have been with almost anyone else as the medic. I know if I was town, I would have protected him. I made that mistake in dwarfs, not protecting him because I thought I had a read on him being scum. He might not have been the towniest person alive, but with a 78% chance of being town, its not worth the risk of losing him.
There's a reason he dies on n1 or n2 in almost every game
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:13 Zephirdd wrote:On September 14 2012 12:10 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 12:07 Zephirdd wrote:On September 14 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Also that's the same reason I didn't choose to let Zeph's night 2 check go through. He had a parity check on BL night 1, and I was pretty sure that he was going to check him against me on night2 since he seemed to have the strongest town read on me. So with the check, he would have seen that BL and I were of different alignments.
But why would scum BL let the check go through when he already knew there was a check on him? I mean, he *COULD* have done it to frame me, but the most obvious answer is that a scum BL would have blocked the cop check. Yes, its WIFOM to make guesses about what scum would do, but it would have put me too high on the radar and got people looking harder at me than I would have wanted. I actually checked prplhz night 2. No reason to not roleblock me though. I should have realized you were scum when you didn't die. marv wasn't confirmed at all, why the fuck would someone who is supposedly confirmed survive over him? That thought went through my head, and I washed it with "that's just scum trying to mess with me". If you tried to use that as an argument against me, I would have been able to shut it down I think. Who would the mafia rather fight against in a LYLO situation: a well respected scumhunter with generally strong town play and really good arguer, or me, a relative newbie? I don't know how that would go, but as much as marv is a respected scum hunter, he is no where near the worth of a confirmed townie when the confirmed cop was paranoid of him earlier and he's known for also being pretty good as scum. soo yeah, I should've thought that through I think you would have a hard time finding any scum team in the last 2-3 months that would have wanted to leave marv alive any longer than was absolutely necessary He basically destroyed the scum team in Mad Men, lol. The only reason he didn't die night 1 was because I expected him to be protected, and I still think he would have been with almost anyone else as the medic. I know if I was town, I would have protected him. I made that mistake in dwarfs, not protecting him because I thought I had a read on him being scum. There's a reason he dies on n1 or n2 in almost every game
In this setup the doctor can't save the same person twice in a row, so you might want to gamble, not save him N1, and save him N2 so he's alive at LYLO
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Yes, that's true. But its a gamble and WIFOM'ing around what the mafia is going to do
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Zeph just nominated you for best scum player Keir. I'm pretty sure if it was you/him/X in the end he would have been lynching X.
On September 14 2012 12:05 Acrofales wrote: Lol. Two things (note, I still haven't read this game, just enjoying the discussion afterwards). Risen, I have been in 2 games with you in which you were prime lynch candidate. In both games I was scum and in both games I was scum and it was very easy to push a mislynch on you (GoT and SSMB mafia for the record). Given your reaction here, it happened again. When that happens once you might call it coincidence or "bad town", but when it happens 3 times you have to start thinking about your playstyle and what you can change (and also whether you want to... ) to not get mislynched.
Secondly, nightkills are often a lot of WIFOM, but sometimes it is just plainly suspicious if someone is left alive. There are some players who, if they live past N2 are almost certainly scum. There is nothing much wifom there, because they are simply too dangerous for scum to leave alive, so if they're alive past time X (without a damned good reason... and sometimes even with it), they are scum.
Fair enough. I'll change my play style then. I've always tried to operate under the assumption that posting a lot was pro-town. Get your thoughts out there for people to pick apart, and respond in a logical manner. I guess that's not how town operates on TL, so that's me needing to change and stop expecting TL town to change.
On September 14 2012 12:05 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 11:01 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 10:55 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 10:48 Risen wrote: Don't even get me started on how everyone in this game has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old.
Keir you're awesome man. Haha, wait. Are you saying that I have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old, or that I am awesome? Or maybe an awesome 2 year old!? No, town has the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. You are just awesome for how you played this game. You took advantage of a stupid town by claiming you were RB'd, and while to any competent town in this setup it wouldn't be alignment indicative, it somehow confirmed you as town. On top of this you were the most active/useful person in the game after me, and if scum is posting more usefully than town, something is wrong. For some reason lynching the most active player seemed like a good idea to town, but then lynching the second most active didn't. I really thought it was you/prpl early on, but then v7 and dirk pulled their inane nonsense and I got all fucked up in the head. Add onto this Zeph with the question that somehow made me scum even though I answered it perfectly fine? This game came down to town being at the level of a trash can, prpl being about equally as bad, and you doing very well. I'd like to see you as scum against some semi-competent townies, I think you'd still do just as well as you did this game. hold on now. I apologized and all but Show nested quote +From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make. Is not a fucking good answer. It's terrible. When you are telling something chronologically, you are supposed to create a list of things and order by time of occurrence. You just mentioned that you never thought the guy was scum and even then he was the scummiest guy in the thread. I don't even know why I apologized. I remember reading this partially and you saying "but I answered chronologically" and me thinking "oh maybe he did". Fuck no, you talked about your first post and threw some suspicion to my post. If I ended up having more time during the last 24 hours, I'd probably pick someone else to lynch(or try), but you can't say you played this perfectly.
Not only did I answer chronologically, when it turned out no one could read, I made the list you want later in the thread here
On September 08 2012 02:27 Risen wrote: For clarity so scum zeph can't muddy the waters even more Risen, chronologically tell the thread why you find prpl scummy
1)I never thought he was scum in my first post, he was just the scummiest of the posters before me so I chose him. 2) his actions since then have been scummy
What more do you want? It was early on in day 1. That's all I had to go on. You want more? There wasn't any more. That's why I felt he was most likely to be scum. So, chronologically, I came in with a nonsense case b/c prpl had been the "scummiest" in thread so far, and it was his response to that early case that made me feel he was scum. Anything missing there? Seems pretty chronological to me. Then again, I think the definition of chronological means ordered by time occuring, maybe you think something else? I talked about my first post and then I also expanded on why I felt he was scum now when I said his response was scummy. You see, I gave you why I made my first post, and then folowed that with my reasoning for finding him scummy AFTER my first post. To me, that goes then > after then. That looks pretty chronological to me. So if you'd like to go actually read the sentence AFTER the one where I explain my first post, instead of just stopping at the first sentence that would be great.
Anyways, I don't see why you find me thinking you're sketch after that as scummy. I don't know your alignment, how am I supposed to know your motives for posting anything. I had every right to come after you for talking about my meta and stuff. I was referencing this post with that sentence, by the way.
On September 06 2012 06:56 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote: Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz Something to look at later. Why not just say I don't look scum based off meta? Scummy brosephemon.
Edit: In case it isn't clear... To me, and anyone else reading that, it looks like you somehow know I'm town. How would a townie know this? Only scum know everyone's alignment. You follow your claim that I'm not scum (a definite statement) with a small justification that leaves you open to "change your mind" later. Also, you hadn't claimed cop, so to me you were the same as anyone else. After the cop claim you would have been confirmed town in my mind.
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On September 14 2012 12:31 Risen wrote:Zeph just nominated you for best scum player Keir. I'm pretty sure if it was you/him/X in the end he would have been lynching X. Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:05 Acrofales wrote: Lol. Two things (note, I still haven't read this game, just enjoying the discussion afterwards). Risen, I have been in 2 games with you in which you were prime lynch candidate. In both games I was scum and in both games I was scum and it was very easy to push a mislynch on you (GoT and SSMB mafia for the record). Given your reaction here, it happened again. When that happens once you might call it coincidence or "bad town", but when it happens 3 times you have to start thinking about your playstyle and what you can change (and also whether you want to... ) to not get mislynched.
Secondly, nightkills are often a lot of WIFOM, but sometimes it is just plainly suspicious if someone is left alive. There are some players who, if they live past N2 are almost certainly scum. There is nothing much wifom there, because they are simply too dangerous for scum to leave alive, so if they're alive past time X (without a damned good reason... and sometimes even with it), they are scum. Fair enough. I'll change my play style then. I've always tried to operate under the assumption that posting a lot was pro-town. Get your thoughts out there for people to pick apart, and respond in a logical manner. I guess that's not how town operates on TL, so that's me needing to change and stop expecting TL town to change. There's literally no way he wouldn't have been suspicious of me in that situation, I think. Maybe I could have talked my way out of it, but why would I take that chance? Anyways, its all purely speculation, since prplhz wasn't lynched anyways, so its not important
As far as the second part, I think its more that when you post so much without thinking through what you're saying, you're bound to slip up and say things that mafia can jump on. Posting a lot and being open with your reasoning isn't necessarily that strong of a town tell if what you say can be perceived as scummy.
I mean, I didn't post as much as you day 1, but I still was pretty active comparatively. And that's about how active I am in all of my games, even as a townie. It's all about what you say and how you say it, not how many times you post.
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I'm still confused as to what I said that was scummy to people. No townie ever actually said anything other than "oh well his posting is scummy" that I didn't respond to.
Edit: I also think this is why I was pretty upset with town this game. No one would actually talk to me and let me defend myself, and when I did defend myself no one actually backed up their votes on me. From my perspective, it just looks like a lazy town filled with sheeple.
Double Edit: I also like how everyone in QT thought I was clearly town.
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Yea, well they thought I was too
Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!".
Also, all your WIFOM arguments against marv felt really out of place. Like, what purpose did they serve? You basically just used a bunch of WIFOM about playing as scum together to justify a "I'm paranoid of marv" read.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 12:48 Keirathi wrote:Yea, well they thought I was too Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!".
I actually typically advise people I attack on how to appear townie as a town player. Basically, if it's reasonable advice (write cases, give reads, etc) it forces them to either follow it or explain why they're not if your attack is good. The reason you do this is twofold: 1) no matter how sure you are you always want to give targets a chance to prove themselves townie and 2) it either forces scum to come out and engage you by taking certain actions, or for them to ignore your advice and look bad for it.
Telling people what they can do to be more townie is actually a good way to push town in the right direction and make scum uncomfortable playing an anti-town game.
The main reason the Risen lynch happened is that there was no clear counter-wagon.
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On September 14 2012 12:48 Keirathi wrote:Yea, well they thought I was too Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!". Also, all your WIFOM arguments against marv felt really out of place. Like, what purpose did they serve? You basically just used a bunch of WIFOM about playing as scum together to justify a "I'm paranoid of marv" read.
Because I've been in his position as town before and I wanted him to know that if he could find a way to start posting logically it would help him a lot. The WIFOM w/ marv stuff was probably a mistake, I agree. Is that indicative of alignment, though?
Edit: BH said it better than me.
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The main reason the Risen lynch happened is that there was no clear counter-wagon.
And I'll argue that this happened because town were either lazy or had no time at all. For me, I was really busy with a party, and then the hangover. I was like 'fuck this shit'. I'd probably call a bluelightz counterwagon if I wasn't so freaking wasted
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So, like I read 0.001% of the posts in this game, but BL's vote on Zephirdd and subsequent posts made me instantly think he's town.
For one, no "active" scum would do that unintentionally at all, since they will always keep 100% focus on anything that can out a blue and could confirm him or could cast doubt on him (to get him misslynched). Having a parity cop be confirmed town is not something any scum would miss nor forget, since that's kind of what they thrive on (to choose nightkills, etc)
So, the only way he'd do that as scum would be intentionally to cause disruption and chaos....but I didn't really see him follow up with that. Voting a confirmed cop is a very obvious blunder. For scum to plan something with that...they'd need to actually try to do something with it, OR make people believe it was a townie mistake since no scum would do that (if it was Risen that did that I'd lynch him in a heartbeat >_> <_< ). If not, it's more likely to be a stupid mistake from a rushed townie that's more eager to post than to think/read (which also kind of fits BL's meta).
Meh, I only read that post of his and then him stepping back and trying to make a case on prphlz/Dirk (didn't read anything else >_> ), but that's the impression I got, so in hindsight I think town could have avoided getting him lynched that last day.
EDIT: These days I'm mostly just forgetting about all games until around 0:00am GMT (if I got that time zone conversion right) and then I F5 like mad to see if there's any night/day post and see if town got some scum (I love it when town gets some scum!)
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On September 14 2012 12:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:48 Keirathi wrote:Yea, well they thought I was too Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!". I actually typically advise people I attack on how to appear townie as a town player. Basically, if it's reasonable advice (write cases, give reads, etc) it forces them to either follow it or explain why they're not if your attack is good. The reason you do this is twofold: 1) no matter how sure you are you always want to give targets a chance to prove themselves townie and 2) it either forces scum to come out and engage you by taking certain actions, or for them to ignore your advice and look bad for it. Telling people what they can do to be more townie is actually a good way to push town in the right direction and make scum uncomfortable playing an anti-town game. The main reason the Risen lynch happened is that there was no clear counter-wagon. I understand your point. But look at marv's pressure vote against me on day1 for saying "I think" etc a bunch. He told me exactly what I needed to do to buy some free BotD. Had he not said that, I probably would have continued, and maybe there would have been something to make an actual case against at some point because he would have been scrutinizing me harder. Granted, that situation is a little different because I always post really iwshy-washy on day1 and get firmer as the game goes on, but the point still stands.
You can force people into playing your game and give yourself a better read of them in better ways, IMO. Ask them questions, ask for opinions, etc etc.
If it works for you, thats fine. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't like it.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 13:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:59 Blazinghand wrote:On September 14 2012 12:48 Keirathi wrote:Yea, well they thought I was too Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!". I actually typically advise people I attack on how to appear townie as a town player. Basically, if it's reasonable advice (write cases, give reads, etc) it forces them to either follow it or explain why they're not if your attack is good. The reason you do this is twofold: 1) no matter how sure you are you always want to give targets a chance to prove themselves townie and 2) it either forces scum to come out and engage you by taking certain actions, or for them to ignore your advice and look bad for it. Telling people what they can do to be more townie is actually a good way to push town in the right direction and make scum uncomfortable playing an anti-town game. The main reason the Risen lynch happened is that there was no clear counter-wagon. I understand your point. But look at marv's pressure vote against me on day1 for saying "I think" etc a bunch. He told me exactly what I needed to do to buy some free BotD. Had he not said that, I probably would have continued, and maybe there would have been something to make an actual case against at some point because he would have been scrutinizing me harder. Granted, that situation is a little different because I always post really iwshy-washy on day1 and get firmer as the game goes on, but the point still stands. You can force people into playing your game and give yourself a better read of them in better ways, IMO. Ask them questions, ask for opinions, etc etc. If it works for you, thats fine. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't like it.
Marv wasn't attacking you for saying "I think" because he wanted you to up your game, he attacked you because it was scummy.
Also, there's a big difference between telling people to stop doing scummy things and telling them what to do that would help town. "If you're a townie, you need to provide reads now" is 100% always a reasonable statement. The fact of the matter is, if scum follows all my suggestions and provides solid reads and cases and takes stances, they will out themselves: nobody's perfect.
There's a reason you can even CATCH scum: it's really hard to pretend to be town. The harder you try to pretend to be town, the more likely it is something you do will be different than what it would be as town. By cutting off player's ability to be anti-town, you are forcing scum into a very very tough position. It works for me, it works in general, and you're wrong, even if you don't like it.
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On September 14 2012 13:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:59 Blazinghand wrote:On September 14 2012 12:48 Keirathi wrote:Yea, well they thought I was too Objectively, its things like the post where you gave the person you had a scum read on (prplhz) a way to be appear townie again. What's the town motivation for doing that? If you have a hunch that a person is scum, why would you ever tell them exactly what they needed to do to get back in your good graces? Granted, there's not much scum motivation for it, either, but as a scum you would already know that they are townie, so when it gets late game and someone questions why you don't still have a scum read on them, you can say "He started posting better and scumhunting!". I actually typically advise people I attack on how to appear townie as a town player. Basically, if it's reasonable advice (write cases, give reads, etc) it forces them to either follow it or explain why they're not if your attack is good. The reason you do this is twofold: 1) no matter how sure you are you always want to give targets a chance to prove themselves townie and 2) it either forces scum to come out and engage you by taking certain actions, or for them to ignore your advice and look bad for it. Telling people what they can do to be more townie is actually a good way to push town in the right direction and make scum uncomfortable playing an anti-town game. The main reason the Risen lynch happened is that there was no clear counter-wagon. I understand your point. But look at marv's pressure vote against me on day1 for saying "I think" etc a bunch. He told me exactly what I needed to do to buy some free BotD. Had he not said that, I probably would have continued, and maybe there would have been something to make an actual case against at some point because he would have been scrutinizing me harder. Granted, that situation is a little different because I always post really iwshy-washy on day1 and get firmer as the game goes on, but the point still stands. You can force people into playing your game and give yourself a better read of them in better ways, IMO. Ask them questions, ask for opinions, etc etc. If it works for you, thats fine. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't like it.
The point here, is that it isn't alignment indicative. Look at my case on you here
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote:Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised. 1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling. Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out.2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do? Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting. 3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there.##unvote ##vote KeirathiSo maybe getting the game rolling wasn't such a bad idea Prplhz THIS is how you respond to someone who has made a case on you if you genuinely think they're scum. Don't use OMGUS unless you're trying to convey that they wouldn't usually be this horrible, but are using being bad as a screen.
Regardless of someone telling you to step back, post logically, etc it's still a case that can be made. In the absence of scummy town people, scum have to slip up no matter what, so helping people out is pro-town imo.
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Man look at that case on you Keir. I'm willing to vote for you right now man. I wish other people had :<
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everything looks easy and obvious on hindsight tho
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On September 14 2012 13:27 Zephirdd wrote:everything looks easy and obvious on hindsight tho
I know, right? XD
I really wish Dirk hadn't come in like he did...
Edit: Also, of the 4 votes on me early, both scum were on me. I mean shit, at one point it was 2 prpl, 2 me. How on earth did people justify voting me over prpl when the vote count was like that. His play was way, WAY more scummy than mine early on. I didn't even flip my shit until later on in the thread when everyone was already on me.
Double Edit: I mean gosh, look at his vote onto Keir and the reasoning behind it then his swap back to me. I pointed these things out in thread. AWRnfkj 4awngflwngflknawlgnktlawnktglk
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@Risen: to give specific advise I would have to actually read this game and I don't have time right now. What I remember tripped you up in SMBB was that you did post a lot, but every post had a different opinion. iGrok was scum, no Grush, no iGrok after all, together with Tali. By the time you actually got it right, it was easy to dismiss as "throwing blame around to see where it'll stick" and paint you as scum. Hell, I am not even sure anybody was actually convinced you were scum by the time you died in that game, but you had no credibility either way.
So yes, on the one hand it's a good idea to post a lot and keep your ideas flowing. On the other hand, you mustn't want to post every little theory you come up with. Write them down for yourself to keep them in mind and gather evidence for and against. Then make a post about it when you are more convinced which hypothesis is true, rather than posting them all.
But this is all based on a different game and I don't know if it's remotely similar to what happened here. In GoT mafia your problem was mainly going all nuts at WBG
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@BH: It's really easy to say that, but then why do people like Marv win every game as scum? Does he just get good luck with setups and terrible towns every time that never pressured him? No, he wins because he can pretend to be a townie without all that much trouble.
Do I think my play was perfect? Hell no. It was my first scum game. But I honestly feel like I did a pretty decent job of pretending to be a townie, because I did play this game with the mindset of a townie. Which, as odd as it is, is exactly what a good scum's mindset should be.
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On September 14 2012 13:33 Acrofales wrote:@Risen: to give specific advise I would have to actually read this game and I don't have time right now. What I remember tripped you up in SMBB was that you did post a lot, but every post had a different opinion. iGrok was scum, no Grush, no iGrok after all, together with Tali. By the time you actually got it right, it was easy to dismiss as "throwing blame around to see where it'll stick" and paint you as scum. Hell, I am not even sure anybody was actually convinced you were scum by the time you died in that game, but you had no credibility either way. So yes, on the one hand it's a good idea to post a lot and keep your ideas flowing. On the other hand, you mustn't want to post every little theory you come up with. Write them down for yourself to keep them in mind and gather evidence for and against. Then make a post about it when you are more convinced which hypothesis is true, rather than posting them all. But this is all based on a different game and I don't know if it's remotely similar to what happened here. In GoT mafia your problem was mainly going all nuts at WBG Also, yea you did that a lot. By the time you died, you had literally accused 6 out of the 8 people of being scum, and all of them after their vote for you (except for prplhz).
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EBWOP: Also, I think I enjoy post-game discussion more than the actual games.
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On September 14 2012 13:36 Keirathi wrote: @BH: It's really easy to say that, but then why do people like Marv win every game as scum? Does he just get good luck with setups and terrible towns every time that never pressured him? No, he wins because he can pretend to be a townie without all that much trouble.
Do I think my play was perfect? Hell no. It was my first scum game. But I honestly feel like I did a pretty decent job of pretending to be a townie, because I did play this game with the mindset of a townie. Which, as odd as it is, is exactly what a good scum's mindset should be. Actually, you're probably right when you start getting into bigger games. Only having one scum partner is probably much, much easier than when you have 4 or 5 or whatever.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 13:36 Keirathi wrote: @BH: It's really easy to say that, but then why do people like Marv win every game as scum? Does he just get good luck with setups and terrible towns every time that never pressured him? No, he wins because he can pretend to be a townie without all that much trouble.
Do I think my play was perfect? Hell no. It was my first scum game. But I honestly feel like I did a pretty decent job of pretending to be a townie, because I did play this game with the mindset of a townie. Which, as odd as it is, is exactly what a good scum's mindset should be.
That point is self-defeating, though, since a guy like Marv doesn't need me to tell him how to pretend to be townie. Also, Marv isn't some ridiculous superdemon of scum skill. He makes mistakes too. And honestly, it's much much more important to increase the activity of townies and force people to talk than it is to avoid giving the little piece of advice it'll take to make Zephirdd the next Marv.
Your #1 goal as a townie is to lynch scum. If it turns out a scum player becomes more skilled as a result of your pressure, that's actually totally okay. In fact, this argument against telling people what to do could be applied against making cases in general. Maybe I should never point out scummy things people do when making cases against them, right? Cause they'll stop doing it and appear like townies?
This kind of logic is the kind of logic that leaves TL towns in the state they're in today.
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Whatever, I'm not going to keep discussing it if you're just going to call me dumb.
E: Good game all. Sorry town wasn't more active and people got lynched that probably shouldn't have.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
;_; sorry I didn't mean to call you dumb definitely didn't call you dumb, you should read my stuff more carefully-- I think you probably played the best out of all the players this game. When I attack an idea someone holds, I'm not attacking them personally. I'm just attacking an idea.
If I seem strident to you, read this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2010/06/07/i-am-not-my-ideas/
and understand I mean no offense.
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On September 14 2012 13:36 Keirathi wrote: @BH: It's really easy to say that, but then why do people like Marv win every game as scum? Does he just get good luck with setups and terrible towns every time that never pressured him? No, he wins because he can pretend to be a townie without all that much trouble.
Do I think my play was perfect? Hell no. It was my first scum game. But I honestly feel like I did a pretty decent job of pretending to be a townie, because I did play this game with the mindset of a townie. Which, as odd as it is, is exactly what a good scum's mindset should be.
I think this statement speaks more to the quality of towns on TL than anything else. Not even saying that marv isn't brilliant as scum.
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On September 14 2012 13:38 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 13:33 Acrofales wrote:@Risen: to give specific advise I would have to actually read this game and I don't have time right now. What I remember tripped you up in SMBB was that you did post a lot, but every post had a different opinion. iGrok was scum, no Grush, no iGrok after all, together with Tali. By the time you actually got it right, it was easy to dismiss as "throwing blame around to see where it'll stick" and paint you as scum. Hell, I am not even sure anybody was actually convinced you were scum by the time you died in that game, but you had no credibility either way. So yes, on the one hand it's a good idea to post a lot and keep your ideas flowing. On the other hand, you mustn't want to post every little theory you come up with. Write them down for yourself to keep them in mind and gather evidence for and against. Then make a post about it when you are more convinced which hypothesis is true, rather than posting them all. But this is all based on a different game and I don't know if it's remotely similar to what happened here. In GoT mafia your problem was mainly going all nuts at WBG Also, yea you did that a lot. By the time you died, you had literally accused 6 out of the 8 people of being scum, and all of them after their vote for you (except for prplhz).
Yeah I'll look into that when playing in the future. It's just when people started voting for me they ALL looked scummy to me b/c their reasoning was so horrible
I don't know how to not point out scummy behavior...
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 13:57 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 13:38 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 13:33 Acrofales wrote:@Risen: to give specific advise I would have to actually read this game and I don't have time right now. What I remember tripped you up in SMBB was that you did post a lot, but every post had a different opinion. iGrok was scum, no Grush, no iGrok after all, together with Tali. By the time you actually got it right, it was easy to dismiss as "throwing blame around to see where it'll stick" and paint you as scum. Hell, I am not even sure anybody was actually convinced you were scum by the time you died in that game, but you had no credibility either way. So yes, on the one hand it's a good idea to post a lot and keep your ideas flowing. On the other hand, you mustn't want to post every little theory you come up with. Write them down for yourself to keep them in mind and gather evidence for and against. Then make a post about it when you are more convinced which hypothesis is true, rather than posting them all. But this is all based on a different game and I don't know if it's remotely similar to what happened here. In GoT mafia your problem was mainly going all nuts at WBG Also, yea you did that a lot. By the time you died, you had literally accused 6 out of the 8 people of being scum, and all of them after their vote for you (except for prplhz). Yeah I'll look into that when playing in the future. It's just when people started voting for me they ALL looked scummy to me b/c their reasoning was so horrible I don't know how to not point out scummy behavior...
It should have still seemed illogical and unhelpful to provide town with 6 scumreads right? You initially built scumreads based on how people acted, what kinds of cases they developed, and what they did, and you fingered prplhz and keirathi. Then, you started thinking anyone who attacked you was scum, and that's when you stopped being accurate. If you had stuck to your reads and not let the attacks on you interfere, I can't say for sure prplhz or kei would have gotten lynched, but I think even if you did get lynched, town would have more to work off of. If you get mislynched as a townie it's not all over-- you want to try to set up for a town victory anyways. It's still a win, even if you're dead, if town wins.
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On September 14 2012 13:27 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 13:27 Zephirdd wrote:everything looks easy and obvious on hindsight tho I know, right? XD I really wish Dirk hadn't come in like he did... Edit: Also, of the 4 votes on me early, both scum were on me. I mean shit, at one point it was 2 prpl, 2 me. How on earth did people justify voting me over prpl when the vote count was like that. His play was way, WAY more scummy than mine early on. I didn't even flip my shit until later on in the thread when everyone was already on me. Double Edit: I mean gosh, look at his vote onto Keir and the reasoning behind it then his swap back to me. I pointed these things out in thread. AWRnfkj 4awngflwngflknawlgnktlawnktglk The reason two scum were on you so early was because you allowed it to happen. Why weren't two scum on Dirkzor or marvellosity or Ange777? It's not like we decided "holy fuck we need to all in here", it felt pretty natural for both of us to vote you and a lot of townies felt the same way. In the end you were lynched with 7 votes on you, 5 of them town which is enough for majority on its own.
If you don't want to get lynched on day1 then it's a lot easier for you to change how you play than to change how everybody else plays. They play that way for a reason you know.
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On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
Risen wrote: Well that's going to go down as one of the dumbest things a towny has ever done if I get lynched off that rofl.
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On September 14 2012 14:02 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) Show nested quote +Risen wrote: Well that's going to go down as one of the dumbest things a towny has ever done if I get lynched off that rofl.
I love you I think I made that post jokingly, though. I didn't think anyone would possibly want to lynch me lol.
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On September 14 2012 13:52 Blazinghand wrote:;_; sorry. I didn't mean to call you dumb -- I think you probably played the best out of all the players this game. When I attack an idea someone holds, I'm not attacking them personally. I'm just attacking an idea. If I seem strident to you, read this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2010/06/07/i-am-not-my-ideas/ and understand I mean no offense. Sorry, I know you weren't personally attacking me. Bleh, I've wrote and rewrote this post like 10 times, but there's really nothing to say. I just needed a smoke break to cool my jets. My bad <3.
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Mannnn, when I was writing that wifom stuff I just wanted town to be aware of how slippy marv could be. I guess I should have just relied on people to know that, or maybe went about saying it in a different manner, but I didn't trust anyone else to actually think T_T
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Kei was obvious to me; didn't see prplhz coming at all. Kei was under almost no threat to being lynched all game though. Very WP from scum team.
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On September 14 2012 14:13 Risen wrote: Mannnn, when I was writing that wifom stuff I just wanted town to be aware of how slippy marv could be. I guess I should have just relied on people to know that, or maybe went about saying it in a different manner, but I didn't trust anyone else to actually think T_T I think anyone who has ever played with or against scum marv, or even just read the games, should be fully aware of it. I know I certainly am.
I talk to marv a lot about mafia in general. He has an extremely good understanding of the game, and there's no way anyone should ever underestimate him, regardless of your alignment.
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why are you guys flaming a new player lol?
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Keirathi clearly MVP, well played for first scum game although I think some of the better scum hunters on this forum would have caught him. He probably knows this himself though and it doesn't take anything away from a really solid performance.
I also really doubt that Risen could have gotten me or Keirathi lynched on day1 simply because of the sway that marvellosity had in town and we were pretty good at manipulating him. My activity on day1 was all because I knew that marvellosity knew that in my last games as scum I pretty much fell off the surface of the earth and if I would just be active he very likely wouldn't go against me on day1. Keirathi had his own thing where he tried to get town credit for pushing me while he knew that marvellosity would speak out against a lynch on me so I still wouldn't get lynched, and probably some other thing that I would know if I had actually followed this game more closely.
There's no town MVP because there wasn't a single scum lynch and it wasn't all because scum (prplhz) was looking super townie. It was because bad townies allowed themselves to be lynched three times in a row and other bad townies allowed this to happen. The Risen lynch was okay but the vaderseven lynch was really bad. If you need to make a last minute change then you can only do it onto a guy like Bluelightz because he was clearly not putting two shreds of effort into this game the game would be better if he was dead, town or not, simply because of the distraction he was (I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me on that though and that's fine).
I also think that the last day townies need to start questioning things a little more, I was just trying to make it appear as if Bluelightz was scum on last day and see if I could get "credit" for bussing him and people fell right into that, especially with some promotion of that idea from Keirathi. It was just too dumb. It was just too easy to lynch Bluelightz and then me so it probably wasn't the right thing. Also, Bluelightz plays like this sometimes, look at Death Factory Mafia 2 where he was utter shit too. He doesn't have Wheel of Fortune games all the time and lynching him over "conflicting opinions on vaderseven" was so weak I couldn't believe it.
Best townie was Dirkzor I think even though he (and everybody else) needs to think everything over at LYLO. Ange777 and marvellosity were largely shot on reputation before they had a chance to really make an impact on the game. We were quite afraid that marvellosity would actually take a step back and reconsider at LYLO and figure it out (like he did in that game where he pulled a town win out of a 2 townies, 3 scum, 1 serial killer LYLO by target lynching the god damn roleblocker holy fuck) but we were never afraid that anybody else would. You should try to make sure that we're afraid of that next game.
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On September 14 2012 14:18 EchelonTee wrote: why are you guys flaming a new player lol? ?
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On September 14 2012 14:18 EchelonTee wrote: why are you guys flaming a new player lol? No one is flaming anybody?
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On September 14 2012 14:20 EchelonTee wrote: I'm dumb
-afk Yea, maybe we should flame the not-so-new observer instead!
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What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange.
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I also really doubt that Risen could have gotten me or Keirathi lynched on day1 simply because of the sway that marvellosity had in town and we were pretty good at manipulating him. My activity on day1 was all because I knew that marvellosity knew that in my last games as scum I pretty much fell off the surface of the earth and if I would just be active he very likely wouldn't go against me on day1.
All you need is one person as scum
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GG scum Especially well played by Keir!!!
I've never been nightkilled before, observing the game from the sidelines was somehow really frustrating especially with the low activity. I don't know if I'd have been able to catch both scum but I'm sure that at least I'd have been able to push for more activity ^^ It was sad that I had started to give my first better read on Zeph and not on another player, maybe that would have been more useful
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Ange, you're always a good nightkill in my book :D
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@Risen: Besides being worried about a medic protect on marv, and ignoring Ange's reputation, there was a reason I killed her night 1. She literally had nothing in her filter that I felt I could even use to discredit her, much less enough to push an actual case.
Oh, hi Ange. Well played yourself!
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On September 14 2012 14:23 EchelonTee wrote: Ange, you're always a good nightkill in my book :D
Agreed. I'm really afraid of ever running into a scum ange b/c I love the way he played this game. I called him in the obs QT as the n1 kill b/c he was playing too smart.
Edit: he is apparently a she. My b yo.
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On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.
Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good.
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On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back. Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. Too be fair, I had things listed in my notes to use against Dirk. I just never had to because townies were lynching other townies
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On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good.
I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game.
Edit: In fact, the thing that made me so convinced of Dirk being scum was that he ignored prpl, found Keir scummy and did nothing about it not even really building a case, and then voted me for reasons that didn't even make sense.
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On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important.
Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still!
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On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. It's pretty good if all townies can appear as townie as they are. Makes it really hard for scum to survive when there are no townies around to lynch. You found two scum on day1 and then you were lynched and no one cared and scum facerolled to victory, wouldn't it have been better if nobody had lynched you because of how townie you were? If nobody had lynched any townie because of how townie they were?
As I said, he didn't play brilliantly or anything but he was pretty good at the basics, which is making sure that everybody knows that you're town. Everybody else was shot early or lynched (or claimed cop like Zephirdd).
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On September 14 2012 14:27 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back. Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. Too be fair, I had things listed in my notes to use against Dirk. I just never had to because townies were lynching other townies To be fair, you were scum
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On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still!
I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice.
Edit: Prpl how on earth was dirk established as a townie? He was scummier than you, in my opinion, and he ended up being town lol
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On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. 100% agree. If you're extremely good at finding scum, then you can let your results speak for themselves, but generally, people have to trust you to listen to you.
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On September 14 2012 14:32 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still! I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice. I wasn't specifically talking about Dirk. Just in general.
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On September 14 2012 14:32 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still! I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice. Edit: Prpl how on earth was dirk established as a townie? He was scummier than you, in my opinion, and he ended up being town lol
Quoting b/c I edited it and someone came in and posted after the edit happened oops :S
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I would like to know how there was such a huge disconnect between the people in the QT and the people in the game in terms of whether I was town or not, then :/
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On September 14 2012 14:32 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still! I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice. But no one else found him scummy (except a scum). Ange777 figuratively had no impact on this game. I'm sure she would have done well if she had been allowed to survive past night1 and had time to show her worth but unfortunately (for her) she was an underrated townie and that spells doom when there is a medic around.
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On September 14 2012 14:35 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:32 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still! I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice. But no one else found him scummy (except a scum). Ange777 figuratively had no impact on this game. I'm sure she would have done well if she had been allowed to survive past night1 and had time to show her worth but unfortunately (for her) she was an underrated townie and that spells doom when there is a medic around.
What are you talking about? There was absolutely 0 scum hunting after day 1. Day 2 was lynch the liar, and day 3 was lynch the cop vote. If there had actually been scum hunting day 2 and day 3 I think Dirk would have showed up easily as a lynch target.
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I don't know how Dirkzor was established as townie because I didn't really read the game, the only vote he ever got was from Bluelightz who was borderline delusional at that point, voting for confirmed cops and stuff like that.
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On September 14 2012 14:37 prplhz wrote: I don't know how Dirkzor was established as townie because I didn't really read the game, the only vote he ever got was from Bluelightz who was borderline delusional at that point, voting for confirmed cops and stuff like that.
T_T
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On September 14 2012 14:37 prplhz wrote: I don't know how Dirkzor was established as townie because I didn't really read the game, the only vote he ever got was from Bluelightz who was borderline delusional at that point, voting for confirmed cops and stuff like that. WHAT? You weren't reading the game!?
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On September 14 2012 14:35 Risen wrote: I would like to know how there was such a huge disconnect between the people in the QT and the people in the game in terms of whether I was town or not, then :/
Well partly because people in the obs qt don't get emotionally involved as much (and make quick reaction calls) and partly because they weren't a target of your accusations
And idk about other people, but I don't think I read the thread until you got lynched and even then I really only skimmed it, so I didn't really notice anything special.
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On September 14 2012 14:36 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:35 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:32 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote:On September 14 2012 14:27 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:26 prplhz wrote:On September 14 2012 14:22 Risen wrote: What justifies Dirk being best townie? He's the only real reason the lynch on me got off the ground.
I think that honor belongs to Ange. No one ever thought of lynching Dirkzor except a rampaging Bluelightz, and this is even though he survived until LYLO. That's really what you gotta do as townie, make sure no one is on your back.Ange777 didn't do anything this game at all since she was lynched on day1. I'm sure there would have been some more from her later (she even admits this after she died in the "man, i was just getting time for this game"-post). I mean she wasn't bad or anything but she simply wasn't alive enough to be any good. I disagree. I always thought the objective as town was to find scum, something Dirk did 0 of this game. Establishing yourself as town is at least almost as important as finding scum, if not as important. Look at Newbie XXVI that just ended. Scum crumbled because there was a townie circle forming and one guy picked up that because of it, the 3 scum were obvious. Granted, that only happened because of some poor NKs, but still! I don't see how Dirk established himself as town. If I was any of the other players he would have been my d2 lynch choice, and then my d3 lynch choice. But no one else found him scummy (except a scum). Ange777 figuratively had no impact on this game. I'm sure she would have done well if she had been allowed to survive past night1 and had time to show her worth but unfortunately (for her) she was an underrated townie and that spells doom when there is a medic around. What are you talking about? There was absolutely 0 scum hunting after day 1. Day 2 was lynch the liar, and day 3 was lynch the cop vote. If there had actually been scum hunting day 2 and day 3 I think Dirk would have showed up easily as a lynch target. But.... in the game we just played that didn't happen and Dirkzor played the entire game without having anybody point fingers at him, thus not being a distraction for town at any point. I also really doubt your hypothetical, there's a reason Dirkzor has never been lynched (though I'm not entirely sure what it is).
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On September 14 2012 14:39 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:37 prplhz wrote: I don't know how Dirkzor was established as townie because I didn't really read the game, the only vote he ever got was from Bluelightz who was borderline delusional at that point, voting for confirmed cops and stuff like that. WHAT? You weren't reading the game!? Well, I evidently was following the game, you can see me describing a few distinct event from the game in that very same sentence that I could not have known if I hadn't actually followed the game.
Didn't read it all though don't know what you guys are so worked up about. Read some, skimmed some more, skipped the rest because it didn't matter.
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I was being sarcastic. I already knew you weren't particularly invested in the game because we talked about it on irc
Scum burnout is pretty understandable.
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Scum burnout? I wish I had a game as scum. It's been months since I was mafia T_T
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Nah if I were in this game risen for sure doesn't get lynched D1. But vader or dirk might have been because I really didn't suspect keir.
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On September 14 2012 14:47 HiroPro wrote: Scum burnout? I wish I had a game as scum. It's been months since I was mafia T_T
Policy lynch Hiro next game I'm with him.
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On September 14 2012 14:47 HiroPro wrote: Scum burnout? I wish I had a game as scum. It's been months since I was mafia T_T Well prplhz has been scum in like 4 straight minis You should secretly trade accounts with him or something lol.
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On September 14 2012 14:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:47 HiroPro wrote: Scum burnout? I wish I had a game as scum. It's been months since I was mafia T_T Policy lynch Hiro next game I'm with him.
Nah I would never request for roles lol. I don't think it's really fair to other players.
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Funny thing is that before that I had the longest town streak on teamliquid that I know about with like 21 games in a row.
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On September 14 2012 14:49 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:48 Risen wrote:On September 14 2012 14:47 HiroPro wrote: Scum burnout? I wish I had a game as scum. It's been months since I was mafia T_T Policy lynch Hiro next game I'm with him. Nah I would never request for roles lol. I don't think it's really fair to other players.
Lol, I just mean the RNG has to favor you one of these days!
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What was risk.nuke's streak before bureaucracy? Like 15/20?
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On September 14 2012 14:51 HiroPro wrote: What was risk.nuke's streak before bureaucracy? Like 15/20?
I'd kill myself. Thankfully I think I've been scum more than town hahaha
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@Hiro: I thought you were scum in Dwarf Fortress, if that makes you feel any better
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Hmm...
For some reason I'm never lynched. I say to my self its because I'm fairly town. Since I know I'm not the best scumhunter I try to appear as town as possible to others so they can take me out of the equation. Risen you clearly doesn't agree that I looked townie and thats fine.
I was so right about Prplhz. I was so right about BL (earlier). Reason to suspect BL in the end was because I ran out of scum reads. I should have trusted my gut about both keir and BL and looked closer at keir. He was there in the back of my mind - and it shows clearly when I asked marv is he had considered Keir RB himself. In the end I decided to sheep Zeph/Keir because BL was my 2nd scumread.
I would lynch risen again next game if played out similarly. Posting a lot isn't a towntell when what you write isn't thought through and just confuse the crap out of me.
Keir you played very well. You play the same style of scum as I do: think as town, post as town. It works in smaller setups but I have no clue about large games. (I try to avoid those) It's super cool to play scum like that and by far more fun then to play town (for me). =)
The setup was SUPER! I mean super good! Why? No one really talked about the setup during the game. I like simple and small. GJ hosting BH! Was super smooth. I liked that you stepped in and stopped the swearing and such. It was over the top at one point.
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I can only be dissapointed with myself and v7.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On September 14 2012 16:52 Dirkzor wrote: I would lynch risen again next game if played out similarly. Posting a lot isn't a towntell when what you write isn't thought through and just confuse the crap out of me.
I think posting a lot isn't a scumtell either, even if it's not super thought through. I think if you're posting a lot, and it isn't well thought through and it's confusing, that isn't even a scumtell (though it is anti-town play). If you're actively hurting the town atmosphere, though, that's a scumtell. If you're not trying to hunt scum, that's a scumtell (and risen ended up like this about halfway through D1 from frustration). It's not that clear-cut usually though.
Like, it's easy to imagine a townie posting a lot, and maybe not thinking things through too much because he has nothing to fear since he's a townie. It's harder, in fact, to imagine a scum posting a lot and not thinking things through, because in doing so you'd be very susceptible to slipping up as scum or generating associative tells if you end up flipping, unless you're very careful. The more transparent you are with your thought process, the more careful you have to be.
Someone getting pissed and posting a lot and lashing out at people, as Risen did, is absolutely NOT a scumtell. It's not a town-tell on its face, since scum could easily pretend to do it, but a lot of the reason Risen got lynched isn't because people had great reasons to lynch him. Though there were reasons, of course. Risen was playing a bit weirdly in some people's eyes. Really, though, there were no solid cases that were pushed on non-Risen candidates D1. Like, nobody got more than 1 (or 2?) votes besides him. In a "1 wagon, lots of stragglers" scenario, the 1 wagon is always always lynched unless there's a really well-put-together case and enough time for everyone to get on board. Without a well-laid-out case (in part due to town inactivity, in part because Risen, the active townie, became unfocused on his reads), there was no way anyone else was getting lynched.
On September 14 2012 16:52 Dirkzor wrote: The setup was SUPER! I mean super good! Why? No one really talked about the setup during the game. I like simple and small. GJ hosting BH! Was super smooth. I liked that you stepped in and stopped the swearing and such. It was over the top at one point.
Yeah everyone ended up becoming more civil, and I'm glad about that. The setup was pretty fun, I may run another Normal Mini with the same setup sometime later. This setup is meant to be more "flat" relative to the normal 9-player 7-2 mini. Typically it's like this:
1 goon 1 RB 7 VTs or 1 goon 1 RB 1 cop 1 doc or 2 goons 1 cop or 2 goons 1 doc
by nerfing cop and doc (parity and non-conseq) and adding in BoxeRs, it means the strongest setup, cop/doc, is weaker, and the weaker setups are stronger. No matter what, town has 2 blue claims, and there's no way to just lean on the cop. The hope for this setup was to make the setup focused entirely on day play with scumhunting and arguing being the only way town can win, but town always has 2 claims to use.
I was initially worried the setup was too town-favored, but the Parity Cop mechanic is really nice. It relies on the cop also being a good scumhunter AND living all the way to D3. Either he's got no doctor to protect him, or the doctor is non-conseq AND there's an RBer. And on D3 even with results, you need to back it up with your reads. It makes for good conversation. getting a "different" result between two players at LYLO can be very tense.
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I agree that posting a lot isn't neccesarily a scumtell. But he seemed to be posting just to post and get him out of the lynch. It only got worse the longer the day went.
I agree that town didn't have any other lynch target then Risen day 1. It was of course the entire towns fault, but Risen just kept posting keeping himself in focus. I would go so far as to say it would have been better if Risen had posted less on d1 than he did.
In order for me to improve I'm asking anyone to explain (or even make a "real" case) how exactly I looked scummy? Try to not use hindsight because that will just ruin it.
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Just read the obs QT. They all thought I was scum, but with no reasoning. Marv and prp thought I was pretty townie. O_o
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 14 2012 16:55 Bluelightz wrote: I can only be dissapointed with myself and v7.
Hey, I'm glad to hear you say that. It was maddening to see you only active once you were all but dead at LYLO. You need to look at how you're spending time on the game.
prplhz - you're never going to forgive me for picking out Snarfs that game, are you?
Risen - I've said it multiple times to you already and I'll say it again - Dirk was not scummy. The fact you continue to say he was does not make it so.
Edit: Dirk - process of elimination, probably.
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On September 14 2012 20:22 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 16:55 Bluelightz wrote: I can only be dissapointed with myself and v7. Hey, I'm glad to hear you say that. It was maddening to see you only active once you were all but dead at LYLO. You need to look at how you're spending time on the game. prplhz - you're never going to forgive me for picking out Snarfs that game, are you? Risen - I've said it multiple times to you already and I'll say it again - Dirk was not scummy. The fact you continue to say he was does not make it so. Edit: Dirk - process of elimination, probably.
D'awww <3, You better get rid of that Get killed n1/Not get killed n1 though please , that was fucking with my brain so much
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 14 2012 20:49 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:22 marvellosity wrote:On September 14 2012 16:55 Bluelightz wrote: I can only be dissapointed with myself and v7. Hey, I'm glad to hear you say that. It was maddening to see you only active once you were all but dead at LYLO. You need to look at how you're spending time on the game. prplhz - you're never going to forgive me for picking out Snarfs that game, are you? Risen - I've said it multiple times to you already and I'll say it again - Dirk was not scummy. The fact you continue to say he was does not make it so. Edit: Dirk - process of elimination, probably. D'awww <3, You better get rid of that Get killed n1/Not get killed n1 though please , that was fucking with my brain so much
Yeah, the reason I thought you might be scum wasn't your wishy washy reads, it was that you ignored my questions that I was pushing at you about that. That really got to me. Especially as scum you'd left me alive! That contradiction gnawed at me.
Regards to dying - there are stronger town players than me that don't die Night 1 or Night 2. I think I'm just a convenient target because at some point I *can* pull things together, plus I'm extremely hard to (mis)lynch.
If you'd put half the effort into Day 2 as you did Day 3, town would have been much better off, and you probably know that Look at your own play those 2 days and I know you can see the massive difference.
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I thought dirk was town most of the time. He could only be scum by association with bl imo.
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On September 14 2012 23:18 Zephirdd wrote: I thought dirk was town most of the time. He could only be scum by association with bl imo.
yeah, totes agree
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The only good thing I did in this game is I pretty much knew by the end of day 2 that prplhz was scum.
Oh wait. I didn't communicate that well enough and I totally ruined the game leading up to that moment.
I did nothing right this game.
My bad again.
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