EPTOr am I too late? :p
Newbie Mini Mafia XXVI
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Or am I too late? :p | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Do you mind having Europeans playing this game btw? I might miss a lot of EODs, but will of course always make sure to get my vote in like a good villager... or mobster. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Man, I'm gonna get myself killed  | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 00:48 thrawn2112 wrote: the old ways of family and respect are no more, haven't you seen the sopranos? Lol no, I actually haven't. I'll make a terrible mobster. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:22 KillingTime wrote: SonicDeath did you ever play WH40K? your name reminds me of that dodgy chaos faction who used to kill with music :D Haha no, never did. Took my name from this: | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
1. Will we know which roles are in play? 2. Edit: dumb question 3. I assume the police is like a standard seer role and he's supposed to give hints along the way to be used at his death. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:37 BioSC wrote: 1. Players will know what roles are POSSIBLY in the game, not the exact number of roles. We like to be mysterious. 2. There are no dumb questions... Only dumb answers. 3. If there is a cop in this setup, each night he chooses one person to inspect, with the result being either Town or Mafia. There are things that can interfere with the results of your inspection, such as Mafia Godfathers (scum that checks as town), Millers (Town that checks as Mafia), and Mafia Framers (causes results to be opposite for one person), so you must use the results of your investigation with the general play of the person in question to get a read. If the cop dies without sharing his results, they are lost. Is there a maximum of one of each role listed except for the vanilla villager? This is going to be a complete mindfuck  | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:03 kushm4sta wrote: Why did you make a million complicated roles in a newbie game? Will we know WHICH of the roles are in play or could it be any number of any of those roles? I have to agree. I'm not just a little concerned that, in particular, the Miller, Framer and Godfather roles will turn this into a crapshot. Newbie games tend to favor the scum because they're the ones benefiting from confusion. Those roles add even more confusion because they remove information. And of course not knowing the distribution of roles also removes information and creates confusion. Anyway, that's just my 2c. I'm willing to give it a shot. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 13:03 drazak wrote: That's what it looked like to me, never played with roleblocker or miller/godfather type stuff but seems simple as fuck to me. Understanding the roles is obviously super simple, trying to processing the information in the game will be a complete mindfuck. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 16:28 kushm4sta wrote: There are ELEVEN roles. IRL mafia games I played there are only 3 roles. Also 3 of the roles make cops totally unreliable... Cop is basically a useless role. For all the cop knows, all 3 mafias could be godfathers, and all the townies could be millers. He doesn't know what roles are in play or how many, therefore any information he gets is totally unreliable. Yeah, if there's one of each of those roles in play, even if the police spots a mobster there's only a 50% chance he's actually a mobster. Of course that's an improvement from 25% at the start of the game but it makes the police worth a whole lot less. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 16:59 drazak wrote: er, as far as I know there can only be one each of each unique role, so only 2 possible wrong cop checks. In addition, likely the mods won't screw us too bad, and will probably have a decent amount of roles, not all 11. You didn't read about the framer, did you? Edit: look at this, we're already confused | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 17:14 thrawn2112 wrote: well.... it's supposed to be really difficult. and like I said, scumhunting in the thread is more useful than a single cop's night checks I thought it was supposed to be 50/50 between town and maffia. Single seers peeks have been invaluable in the games I've watched (not on TL). Of course scumhunting in the thread is completely necessary in any case. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 18:31 Kreb wrote: I like the roles. To me they add depth to the game. If there only was a cop and no miller/godfather, it just seems like he randomly could find a scum on the first or second night and that would give a huge advantage to the town. Later in the game he will undoubtedly have reads on 2-3 people and it seems extremely powerful. He might be able to finish the game by himself when theres 6-7 people left and maybe he has reads on 2-3 of them. At the right time, he roleclaim and reveals all his reads. He might even sacrifice himself to prove his reads are right and still win. To me that sounds rather boring. Winning as town should be done through successful day discussions, not through a cop randomly hitting perfect reads and then just finishing it by himself. The cool thing about having a police with 100% accuracy is that it puts pressure on the maffia. While the town needs to figure out who's scum/townie, the mobsters need to figure out who's the police. I don't think playing police is as easy as you make it out to be. The police can get night killed, which means he needs to leave hints. If they're too vague the town won't be able to spot them. Many maffia games have been lost because the police doesn't manage to get his peaks across. At the same time, if they're too obvious, the mobsters will be able to spot him and kill him off. The town needs to combat this with leaving fake hints as police cover, which in turn will provide info to the town if a fake police is getting lynched. With the current setup I doubt that police covering is a good strategy, at least it's way less important, which removes a cool part of the game. The newbie town is at a disadvantage at the start of the game because the lack of experience will create confusion. The added complexity of the setup removes most reasonably easy ways to clear townies and spot mobsters, which puts them at an even greater disadvantage. If you look in the maffia game library, you can see that the results are 15 - 4. Anyway, this is meant as feedback, not criticism. I'm obviously fine playing with this setup, that's what I signed up for. If a more experience player can comment on my thoughts I would appreciate it though. Perhaps this setup is awesome for reasons I haven't realized. My guess is that in a newbie game, the town is at least at a 75/25 disadvantage from the start. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 20:12 Toadesstern wrote: Not exactly a host / co-host but Kita said he's fine with me coaching so just to stick out a little: sup dudes. PM me with anything you want. So far there's no plan in wether I coach town, mafia or both at the same time but I'd assume I'm coaching both right now and yeah don't worry, can deal with that. So if you've got a question just shoot me a pm. I'm obviously not going to answer questions like "who do you think is mafia?" but anything else is fine I guess. Can we start asking question before the game starts? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Are mobsters allowed to communicate privately 24/7? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 21:16 Kreb wrote: Link to the mafia game library? Personally I looked at the ongoing mafia games thread and looked at ending posts. XX - Town win XXI - Mafia win XXII - Town win XXIII - Town win XXIV - Didnt find XXV - Town win 15-4 for mafia....? Edit (yes I know I cant do it when game starts =) ): Found XXIV thread. Town win. So we have 5-1 to town last 6 newbie mafias. I'd definitely not want a 100% cop then... This is where I was looking: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274334#6 | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 02 2012 02:52 Blazinghand wrote: In the past, newbie games were typically won by scum. However, in the past 4-5 months or so, newbie games are typically won by town. The chief factor in deciding who wins a newbie game is which side has the better players. Who plays better wins, regardless of complexity. Don't even worry about the setup. In all likelihood in a game of this size you'll have like 2-3 blue roles (probably one roleblocking/protecting role, one shooting/information role, and a third role that could be either), and mafia will have 1-2 PRs, including a roleblocker or framer, or maybe a roleblocker and a GF. In fact, the biggest downfall of newbie towns is spending time speculating on the setup rather than scumhunting. Speculating on the setup in normal, non-themed games is like universally a hugeeeee waste of time. Summary: step 1) scum hunt step 2) win step not a step) speculate endlessly on setup When you say "spending time speculating about the setup", do you mean speculating about which roles are actually in play? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 01 2012 23:18 kitaman27 wrote: Taking a look at the types of setups used in past newbie games might help address your concerns. Generally we select setups that are balanced as a normal game, without taking into account that newer players are playing. As this is generally a learning experience, I think a skewed setup would cause people to make incorrect assumptions once they move on to the non-newbie games. The results may have started 15-4, but town has won the majority of the recent games, so I'm not sure the sample size is large enough to call it a 75/25 disadvantage. Adding more than 2-3 roles may add complexity to the setup, but I don't think it impacts balance as much. Compared to a cop only setup, the possibility of medic role forces the mafia to decide between hitting the strongest player in the thread or hitting a player that is less likely to be saved. Framers and millers are present in the role list because we never want a sitatuion where a town can win simply by following the blue's night actions. Alright, makes sense. Thinking a little bit about this setup I think it has the potential of being a great game. Let's get this rolling! | ||
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