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Guess who can't sleep.
@sonic
Just what productive discussions are you referring to? If you were talking about the kush/drazak that could be the same thing. If you were talking about kville... well it is obvious what happened. The discussion was hardly there anyway. Honestly the productive discussions weren't all that productive and it did show a side of killing that is now very suspicious. Also stutters had not so useful posts day one but he has made useful posts day two. Unlike killing time who has avoided most things both days. Do you not notice or comment on the state of killings integrity right now?
However this is speculation. I will now read through you filter.
I would agree on your survival chances kreb :/
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I'm kinda stunned... but yeah the drazak kill was a vig, on the plus side we should be able to work out who is the vig. Also something I thought of, if the stutters killingtime is manufactured then of course stutters is making logical points. Because he is hunting scum. This sends a serious spanner in the works though.
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It does make sense that one of the relationships would be manufactured at this point. If they didn't then it would be too obvious. I would say it's more likely than one of the people I have confirmed as town to be mafia. Only my opinion though.
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Whoa I think I know who the vig is and it makes almost perfect sense... If you are town think about who the vig would be carefully. This is all I probably should say for know. I will have an argument for who the vig is incase "the vig" is going to be lynched.
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As for lynch targets for today I would leave xatalos for later same with stutters. Personanly I would go with Killing Time he just can't seem to reply to the arguments but either or I would be fine with if someone does bring up a good argument.
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That’s a highly extensive argument you have there. (will get to it later)
However why should we need to role claim? It’s obvious who the vigilante is, medic is dead, if we have a roleblocker he hasn’t stopped anyone yet (so no evidence to know he is jailkeeper) unless the cop (if we have one) has good reads and has breadcrumbed them then we shouldn’t role claim. If he has got reads with breadcrumbs then he should be the one to decide if we role claim. Even then there could be a framer (sonic missed this) and god father in the scum team. If you know there is a role claim would benefit mafia.
That said I am not completely against it. It is up to the cop but if he does role claim he is the next target as medic can’t save him.
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On September 08 2012 14:35 KillingTime wrote:
Kush has so far pushed Drazak, Kreb & Cubu - &FOS's xatalos. Leaving aside Xatalos, that is a 100% miss rate so far and now you are pushing me because my reads are too safe and non-committal. Welp, that is pretty funny. I have no idea why town should trust anything you say at this point.
Also - I have no idea why you are asking that question because the vig has only one shot?
I agree.with sonic that we should roelclaim at this point - we need all the info we can get because if we mislynch again we lose
Maybe we shouldn't trust kush but I have a much higher anti hit rate. (not voting kville thought kreb was town was wary of drazak however but thought you would be better over him also kreb was going for drazak and it turns out he was wrong (and confirmed town)) Also I don't think he pushed kreb much at all apart from the first day (provide quotes past that?)
If you want me to believe you post a full case not just accusations without quotes and context. Not only are you too safe and non commital you are also posting fluff (such as your day 2 night posts) and I have had massive amounts of circumstantial evidence against you all game. While you brushed them off and that would be fine if that is all we had now we have a solid case and those little things I was bugging you about.
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On September 08 2012 21:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Still, from the last days I'm leaning townie on Kush, scum on Xatalos (although Kreb's point that it's a null read has some merit), currently I'm pretty neutral on Jacob and imcasey is a total null read. Jacob, could you address my post from yesterday? I don't understand the imcasey = sure townie argument. I don't have a lot of time atm so I won't throw out random team reads. I will make sure to be back later tonight though.
I thought I addressed this in my long night post? I will check what you said though.
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Oh right found it post inc..
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We all seem to agree that KillingTime is scum.(and lynch target) If he isn't we are completely screwed and mafia has played a perfect game. I agree stutters is a little non commital with his lynch targets but so is sonic. Case below, while I don't completely think sonic is the target to go for I am going to pressure you for answers as we haven't done that as much.
I am having trouble wording my thoughts so I will have to get back to the imcasey case(in response to you) in a minute. How can I and kush be so sure? Well there was a large section here but it turns out we shouldn't talk about the vig... I have saved what I wrote though to either support what I think is a true roleclaim or question one that seems fake.
I am actually getting more and more suspicious of sonic. You are trying to raise a lot of doubts about casey for a day 4 5 lynch and you have a null read on me. How on earth after all this do you be neutral on me.
On September 08 2012 21:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Still, from the last days I'm leaning townie on Kush, scum on Xatalos (although Kreb's point that it's a null read has some merit), currently I'm pretty neutral on Jacob and imcasey is a total null read. Jacob, could you address my post from yesterday? I don't understand the imcasey = sure townie argument. I don't have a lot of time atm so I won't throw out random team reads. I will make sure to be back later tonight though.
In this post you basically list three null reads. (you say leaning scum on xatalos but you leave it open with the krebs point) But I just don’t understand how I can be a neutral read, I am 93 posts in on this thread. Not saying post count is an indication of town but I would have to be the freaking genius of the world to pull something like this off and not slip. Also your town read (obvious town read on kush) thinks I am town, kreb thought I was town, I was opposed to a kville lynch (who was town) and was going at killing all game (who seems most likely scum in the eyes of kush and I and now xatalos). Either I am mafia that looked at the other mafia players and went ehh who cares about them I’ma play for town or I am amazing, the other option of course is that I am town.
You are being very vague. Also you have a habit of not voting for your scum reads. For example (as pointed out by stutters who seems against you and killing.
On September 04 2012 04:25 Stutters695 wrote:Alright, a couple of thoughts. @Sonic Death MonkeyYou also say Show nested quote +The low level of Cubu's contributions makes him a better lynch candidate even though I think Drazark may be a more likely scum. If you think Drazark is more scummy why would you ever consider Cubu over him? It's not like a flip on Cubu confirms anyone else's alignment this early in the game. Explain. (As a side note I've just contributed as much as Cubu in terms of scumreads, but you're missing my point from earlier still. It isn't how often you contribute its the intent and what you contribute.)
I know you replied to this but it still stands that you voted for someone not your scum read.
Stutters could be busing Killing time however his case was put up when I was the only one even kind of on him and even then I was doubting myself (at the time) also what you are doing is more bus style play. You are seeing there is a good argument and saying yeah I see your points. Maybe you are both bussing him.
I mainly just want answers (simmilar thing to was I was doing to killing a while back) as we need everything we can get.
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I like xatalos more recent post. We must vote on strongest scum read. Killing or stutters basically. Imcasey we won't be able to consolidate on, while I think killing is a larger scum read we should look at stutters as well just incase. (but it would take a lot to convince me)
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Something tells me Xatalos hit his weekend. I agree with pretty much everything he has said so far. However it is night so I will sleep. Will be back in about 12 hours?
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Wow stutters is vig? Hurm... If he is this puts killing and xatalos in really bad light. Also If he is it's basicly a show down with imcasey and sonic. Due to imcasey apparently not being vig (I will post my case that made me thing he was in a minute) This does make me think twice about the situation.
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I will try and answer all of sonics posts sometime tonight. It's obvious I am not a lynch target today so when I get the time I will do that. Also while xatalos thing about needing to push the most scum person is true that can also be malipulated in mafias favour. Will continue reading.
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ebwop The today tonight thing is tonight my time still today game time. Just thought it might be confusing.
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On September 09 2012 06:54 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Now to why I don't fully trust you. Early game you were very indecisive. The only case you had was the Killer case, but even that you didn't fully commit to. Now you claim imcasey is 99% townie and make confident statements about Killing, Stutters, drazak and vig reads. When I question some of those reads, you don't even respond. Why so confident now and why don't you answer those questions? It seems to fit scum strategy very well not to point too many fingers early game, just to push your agenda late game.
Early game I was indecisive. Yes I was... while I hate saying this but it is my first game. I would obviously get more and more confident as I go while wrong some of the time we need to be decisive at this point in the game and it is getting easier and easier to see the patterns. Also why would I have been so confident of drazak as scum? I would have waited for now to be confident and try to separate the drazak lynch from myself.
I am going to respond to the imcasey read in a while (need to get thoughts together in the light of stutters as most likely vig (he has breadcrumb and I doubt we are getting a counter claim)
I am going to post what I wrote about who I thought was vig because I promised I would but it seems kinda pointless now. I would also like to note I completely forgot stutters existed in this case so that is where I was wrong.
How can I and kush be so sure? Well we both think it is imcasey. Well for one I know it isn't me. This is a good start. I have such a strong town read on kush and he claims to not be it (seemed to not be it before he claimed requested it on someone else (kville before)) also xatalos wanted vig to kill kville. Killing is probably mafia and that leaves you and casey.
You wouldn't have taken the shot. For one you didn't have the time to think about it and it doesn't seem like something you would do so I surmised it was casey.
Turns out I completely missed the fact stutters was in the game, I feel so stupid. (the vig thing made everyone stupid though lets be honest...)
But can you re-list the questions you had for me. (about anyone else I have your casey list) Also I was going to bring you up on something that I thought you didn't reply to (turns out I forgot to include it -_-) but I will ask you now.
If stutters went too hard at killing to be a bus and he is almost positive town now, then doesn't your style seem rather bus like. For example the stutters killing was to... aggressive to be a bus however you say "good points" and you passively agree about killing time. You seem to passively agree about xatalos. You are only actively going at imcasey. It is really unlikely that you and imcasey are a scum team so my question is are you scum passively busing your two scum mates and betting because of that you can get a lynch on imcasey? Honestly at this point I have said it before and I will say it again. The game seems to be down to is imcasey scum or sonic.
I am sure you can agree one of them must be town. (there is a slight chance xatalos is town but we can deal with this tomorrow game time) This is why the casey read is so important and I need to start working on that when I am not tired. I will probably need a massive post on this which is why I am only popping in at the moment when I am tired. (woke up early)
But for now ##Vote Killing Time
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ebwop Drazak was shot though... this is why I should wait till I am also not drunk.
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If what you say is true and I doubt it but I will check. Then it would be a Kush/sonic/imcasey mafia team. With stutters vig I town and you town and xatolas town. I assume.
I think it is possibly a xatalos killing sonic team. But need to research it. If kush is mafia he probably deserves to win. However, if you and stutters are both town then the game is probably lost. I really want to see what stutters thinks because he is pretty much confirmed town. If I can prove imcasey innoccent then I would be fine voting for sonic but I would have to see what stutters thinks. (also sonic is safe with him being in both mafia teams if imcasey is town) Wait looking back that makes no sence though. If imcasey is innocent then he can't be in the scum team. Hmm...
What do you think stutters, I am fairly sure about what I think about killing being scum however it would be good to hear a revised opinion.
Also killing what was your scum team before the vig call and what do you think it is now.
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Sonic is in both scum team variations. I actually think a lynch on him would be good. It's a can't miss scenario. Think about it. Killing has been sure on his lynchs in a way. While not badwagoning or voting people he doesn't think is scum. While I am still super suspicious of him because he has gone for people the crowd hasn’t and as I see it we can’t miss with a sonic lynch... maybe I am just doubting myself but look at it that way. can we miss with a sonic lynch? No what scum team could there be without sonic? killing xatalos and imcasey. Kush thinks imcasey is townish at least so do I. (like I said reasonings coming later)
What do you guys think killing, stutters kush, and xatalos. Sonic and imcasey feel free to chip in as well.
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Woah I may have hit something, drazak was town right?
Drazak was against kush but who was with and against him? I was undecided (although mostly against to my shame) because why would mafia hit such a high profile town (imo at the time) but he seemed scummy in motivation. However now we know he is town.... lets look at sonics, imcasey(if there is anything) xatalos and killings filters about it.
Sonic was thinking drazaks case was bad and was saying kush was omgus-ing. Drazak was town.
On September 07 2012 18:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 18:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:I don't find the case against kush to be strong. I will repeat my earlier arguments: + Show Spoiler +Starting a wagon d1: Usually gives you too much attention (this game is a case in point)
Pursuing that townie Cubu: I think at a 4-2 score where no other wagons had any momentum, he still aggressively pursued Cubu.
Going after thrawn: Makes no sense to attack the most trusted townie (those were the accusations right? I still need to go back and reread this part)
All his actions will give him a ton of attention, that’s not very scummy at all. I’ve been reading through the arguments against Kush but didn’t focus too much on it yesterday because I think it makes more sense to discuss it now. My reaction to reading through the exchange between Kush and drazark was that Kush went into a pretty heavy OMGUS-mode (wrt to those 4 posts he made in response). Is this what you find to be scummy, drazark? Or is there more to it that I have missed? Could you please condense your argument to what you believe to be the most valid points?
Also xatalos was a huge defender of kreb and drazak both town.
Kush has had a 100% miss rate (killings filter)
Kreb said role claim sonic didn’t say to role claim would only help town (exception to a cop) if vig claimed and it did help.
Sonic, Kush seems to be in cohorts. I know this might seem a bit much considering how strong I was on killing until recently.
But this is after lynch theoretical. However I think with sonic being in both of my mafia groups I would be stupid not to think we should lynch him. While I thought he could be passive defending killing and xatalos he could also be not trying to draw attention to himself so late in the game.
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EPT
