|
Who hasn't voted yet? Can we get a votecount?
|
On September 02 2012 08:32 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 08:10 Shady Sands wrote:
After reading through the thread, here are my thoughts.
On SnB: I would suggest the cop check him. Hunting someone off a single claim like that as opposed to actual scummy behavior is a null tell, in my opinion, especially given that this game has rules so different from a normal mafia game. Heck, I'm not even sure about how the whole "suspicious detective" and "right arm detective" mechanic is supposed to work. It could be entirely possible that SnB got a different miller subtype than what Palmar got, or that Palmar was a traitor and not a miller, or he was a townie that was set up by a Mafia Framer with delayed flip.
Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 05:41 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 02:01 strongandbig wrote:
How about this - we kill ghost today because he's scum. Hiro or some other DT checks me tonight. I come back town and we realize I'm telling the truth? No 1. You're lying scum 2. I wasn't given a check today to waste on you. 3. I'm probably getting shot tomorrow. Hi, please read the thread before you say stuff like this. There are no framers - and that part (Mafia Framer with delayed flip) makes no sense at all. Palmar was definitely not a traitor - his role PM was the VT PM (he's a miller). Suspicious detective is the equivalent of a guilty. I don't have a check to use today and I am probably not going to live long enough to give out a check which I would have to make tomorrow. It is not just the role itself- the big thing is the fact that he lied about what his role claim was in the opening post that was dedicated solely to explaining his role....
So wait, Palmar was scum?
|
On September 02 2012 08:55 mkfuba07 wrote:For those of you who want to see a current vote count (and correct me if I'm wrong). Votes for SnB (7) - HiroPro, marvellosity, Node, MrZentor, ghost_403, Risen, Hopelessr1der Votes for ghost_403 (3) - Mementoss, strongandbig, Shady Sands Votes for Shady Sands (1) - mkfuba07 @Shady: You mean like this? Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:04 ghost_403 wrote:On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".
I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.
If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..
##Vote: Mr.Zentor
Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.
This is the post done by Mementoss that makes me think that he's scum. Take a close look at what he's saying in this post. - Ghost is defending BMB
- BMB is scum
- Risen is a bit off
- Hey, let's lynch a lurker
To the first point, he points out that I've been defending BMB, which is not true. I've been trying to force a discussion about BMB with the people who have been voting BMB. I specifically point that out in this post and this post. Look at what he said real carefully. It's not that he disagrees with what I did. I think he's misrepresenting what I've done in the game up until this point in order to undermine my position in the town. Reading his position on BMB, you realize that he's all over the place in his read. "bit scummy", "make himself look town", "the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective"... All of this would make you think that given a bullet, he'd shoot BMB dead. So why isn't he voting BMB, or at the very least pressuring on him hard? If I was that convinced someone was scum, I'm going to do everything I can to make him sweat bullets and get him lynched. MMToss just kind of admits it, and leaves it hanging. Next, Risen is a bit off. Everyone said that. Next! Finally, he votes Zentor. His vote on Zentor isn't based around the fact that he think's he is scum, he's simply voting for him because he feels compelled to vote. I don't see him putting a lot of thought into his vote, which is exactly what a mediocre scum player does. TL;DR - I think MMToss is scum because of this post. I'm going to be rather upset if the town lets him off the hook. Do you not see this as reasoning behind his vote? Or do you not see it as being "independent" enough? Or did you not read his filter before saying that he didn't support his vote? As for this quote: Show nested quote +He also tells town to pressure Risen over the Palmar lynch, which looks to me like scum trying to set town up for a second mislynch after stumbling on D1. Why not blame yourself, Ghost, for offering no independent analysis on why you voted MMToss? He provided his own reasoning for voting for MMToss, and actually voted for someone other than Palmar. How can you try to place the blame for the mislynch on him in any way? Maybe he should have been here spamming "Vote for my candidate guys! He's scum!" a few hours before the deadline. Maybe that would have stopped that mislynch that he didn't promote. @All: I'm actually not understanding how ghost's post is so scummy. Is that the general feeling when posts like this are seen?
All Ghost did there was repeat what others already said on an 18 hour old post. MMToss had moved far beyond that post already by the time it was posted.
Now the votes are:
Votes for SnB (6) - HiroPro, marvellosity, Node, ghost_403, Risen, Hopelessr1der
Votes for ghost_403 (4) - Mementoss, strongandbig, Shady Sands, MrZentor
Votes for Shady Sands (1) - mkfuba07
|
Just two more to switch. Don't let me down.
Also, it's not that 1 individual post that's scummy. Read through Ghost's filter, and tell me ghost is scumhunting with individual and original thinking.
He isn't.
|
RISEN! HOPELESS! GET IN HERE!
|
Why is it that every time we attack one of HiroPro/Ghost/Mkfuba, they all end up pushing other candidates/defending each other immediately thereafter?
|
On September 02 2012 09:52 Risen wrote:
Honestly, I'm looking at the two lists and Shady I already have my doubts about you, MrZ is a lurker, mt seems townie, sab seems like a liar. Why are we saving sab, again?
This isn't about saving SaB, it's about lynching someone for their play as opposed to a claim/fakeclaim. Ghost has been playing like a scum for most of D1/D2. The one time he tried to present independent casework, it was a simple repeat of what Hapa had already written. Other times, he just sheeps people and votes without any justifications at all.
|
On September 02 2012 10:17 MrZentor wrote:
If you were a mafia and fake claiming to be a miller, why would you lie and say that sometimes you appear innocent?
Wouldn't it be easier to just say you're a normal miller, because not only does it seem more likely for there to be only normal millers, but also in the unlikely scenario that somebody does check you, you'll appear guilty like you claimed you would.
It doesn't make sense for a mafia to claim to appear guilty to alignment checks part of the time.
Unless there's some weird mechanic that gives the godfather an extra power if chooses to appear guilty for the night.
In which case, SnB is the godfather and he's fooling us.
But that doesn't seem probable..
Zentor, this is why I try not to think about the SaB claim as hard as scumhunting. Dwelling on the claim is like trying to swim through a sea of WIFOM. It doesn't help. Focus on the scumhunt, and tell me Ghost doesn't look scummier than S&B.
|
On September 02 2012 10:39 HiroPro wrote:
uh I saw the flip lol
What was the flip?
|
On September 02 2012 10:41 MrZentor wrote:Shady, I was merely telling Risen why we were saving SnB. And right now I think Ghost is scum over SnB. I thought that was obvious from the fact that I am voting for Ghost. + Show Spoiler +
Woops thought you were on the SnB wagon.
|
On September 02 2012 10:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
Welp okay then.
##Vote: Shady Sands
Why?
|
On September 02 2012 10:41 HiroPro wrote:
bio, the best thing to do is just put it back. you can't have the day continue with having some people knowing s&b's alignment and some people not knowing it.
That's not okay. I still have an hour to go trying to get Ghost lynched.
|
On September 02 2012 10:46 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 10:45 MrZentor wrote:
Okay, so this lynch didn't really tell us anything, because he was a traitor.
Great.... It told us there was quite the last minute effort to save sab. How is that telling us nothing?
Because how the heck could scum know he was the traitor?
|
On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 10:54 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote:
Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor. No I don't think so either. But they would have thought he was town and that's where it gets interesting. I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks.
And keep thinking about it from the scum PoV:
Let's say scum think SaB could be the traitor. What do they do? Try to organize a counter-wagon on a townie that will look extremely obvious and possibly out the entire scumteam, all for a possible additional scum member? Or just push for a bus, since that will boost their towncred without them having to risk a scumteam member?
|
On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote:
Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote:
Good morning, everyone!
So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.
I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.
So first off, why claim now?
Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.
Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.
Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)
But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.
So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.
So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).
For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.
It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.
So let's go town!
PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though.
What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor?
|
On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote:
Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote:
Good morning, everyone!
So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.
I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.
So first off, why claim now?
Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.
Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.
Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)
But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.
So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.
So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).
For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.
It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.
So let's go town!
PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though. What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor? I can't even tell if this is a real question or not.
This is a real question.
Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that?
Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects?
|
On September 02 2012 11:29 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote:On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote:
Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote:
Good morning, everyone!
So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.
I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.
So first off, why claim now?
Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.
Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.
Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)
But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.
So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.
So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).
For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.
It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.
So let's go town!
PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though. What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor? I can't even tell if this is a real question or not. This is a real question. Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that? Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects? You're neglecting the fact that at this point in the game there's still a lot more town than scum. In anything like this split vote you're going to have townies on both sides. This gives scum the chance to screw things up, and having sab's extra vote at that point is really good. Also, how does the person they swap to flipping green confirm sab as traitor? I was convinced he was a traitor because of what I found, but how would a town flip that confirm him to YOU?
By the existence of the last minute wagon. I'd find that highly suspicious and vote against it the next day. The fact that people were acting in concert to get a townie lynched would read as a giant scumtell to me.
|
On September 02 2012 11:34 Risen wrote:
Wtf? You were ON THAT WAGON. Am I the only one who sees this disconnect?
Is HiroPro confirmed town? IF NOT, THEN HOW WAS I ON A WAGON TO GET A TOWNIE LYNCHED?
|
ebwop should read Ghost_403 in the sentence above.
|
On September 02 2012 11:42 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:35 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:34 Risen wrote:
Wtf? You were ON THAT WAGON. Am I the only one who sees this disconnect? Is HiroPro confirmed town? IF NOT, THEN HOW WAS I ON A WAGON TO GET A TOWNIE LYNCHED? You were on a wagon that would have saved a traitor. D1 Palmar, though trollsy as fuck is still confirmed town, says ghost is his town read. D2 he's one of the top lynch candidates. You think both lynch candidates were scum? (I'm asking if you still think ghost is scum, weird slip with hiropro and ghost, though. Is hiropro a scum partner?) All three of those add to Ghost being a bad lynch candidate, in my mind. Am I using information we've gained POST FLIP to make that judgement? Yes.
Christ, when was I trying to save SaB? I was trying to get my top scumread lynched. This is what I wrote, just fyi:
This isn't about saving SaB, it's about lynching someone for their play as opposed to a claim/fakeclaim. Ghost has been playing like a scum for most of D1/D2. The one time he tried to present independent casework, it was a simple repeat of what Hapa had already written. Other times, he just sheeps people and votes without any justifications at all.
Hint, I wrote this pre-flip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
